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Obama Urges Opening Cable TV Boxes To Competition (npr.org)

An anonymous reader writes: President Obama is publicly supporting the FCC's proposal to help viewers buy cable boxes to spur competition and help subscribers save money. Basically, the proposal would require TV channels to sell their content to third-party groups, like Google and others who would sell their own devices. The president's backing of the FCC proposal is part of a broader White House initiative to spur competition. In a Yahoo News interview, Obama compared the cable box issue to earlier moves by the government to open up the telephone system in the 1980's. Obama said, "Across the board, if we have more players who can potentially participate, fewer barriers to entry, the rules aren't rigged, then you get more people trying to get your business and you get better products at cheaper prices."

44 of 75 comments (clear)

  1. Gonna be hard to do this... by rworne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just about every ISP is a media distributor as well. Don't have any draconian usage caps? This is one way to get slapped with them.

    Hard to force them to open up the market with the lobbying they do. If the FCC succeeds and forces it to open, good luck when you start realizing your cap does not go very far when you add all that programming to your monthly bandwidth and the cable companies look get their profit in overage fees.

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    1. Re:Gonna be hard to do this... by ls671 · · Score: 2

      Also, at least where I live, most if not all cable companies are ISPs as well so they will figure a way to make it work out for them.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    2. Re:Gonna be hard to do this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... is a media distributor as well.

      It's called bundling, and forcing customers to buy extra services is illegal in most countries. Of course, if one does buy the extra services, it is sensible that a higher cap, or un-metered consumption is part of that service.

      ... realizing your cap does not go very far ...

      That works when they can charge what the market will bear. With data services, variable costs are low: Laying fibre optic costs the same whether it carries 10 Gb/s or 1,000 Gb/s. So they can allow people to consume more data for the same cost: Which will bring them more customers, thus increasing their revenue for minimal cost. That will happen as long as ISPs depend on the number of customers.

    3. Re:Gonna be hard to do this... by guises · · Score: 1

      Funny enough, the FCC also regulates ISPs. This is something that they can address, provided that bill from the other day doesn't go through. Ideally this will mean unbundling of cable internet services in addition to TV, which is possible now that ISPs have been reclassified as telecommunications services. That would be a huge win for everyone (except the existing monopolies).

    4. Re: Gonna be hard to do this... by mandy2tom · · Score: 1

      Some cable boxes can cost over $250 a year in electricity usage alone But I think Cable is dead , Internet streaming will replace it once we finally get some competition

  2. Eliminate Cable Boxes Entirely. by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 4, Informative

    Eliminate Cable Boxes Entirely. If you want Cable, it should be an entirely Clear QAM Affair with channels that make logical sense.

    The reason Cable boxes exist, is that when a cable came into being, TV was split between VHF and UHF. Cable was "more VHF Channels" that went beyond the number 13. You could tine 2-13 on any Analogue TV set. If you wanted 14 or higher, you needed a Cable ready TV, or a Cable Box.
    Then sometime in the 1990s, it became: Cable Boxes are the Gatekeepers to the Premium Channels.
    Now it's: Cable Boxes are required to access cable at all.

    The requirement should be clear. Universal Clear QAM. Flat Rate Neutral Pricing.

    1. Re:Eliminate Cable Boxes Entirely. by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      In an increasing number of cases cable is just IPTV, so there should be no need for a special cable box. Just provide an app for Android TV, Apple TV or any mobile device in the home. In the meantime I am using over the air, because everything else has more advertising than I should be paying a cable fee for.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    2. Re:Eliminate Cable Boxes Entirely. by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      3 years ago I had a DVR and Comcast, and while I dislike the company, this combination was the one I was happiest with. Without the DVR there's "nothing on" ever, but with it, I had too much to watch and never really got through with it all before deciding it was more important to live in a safe neighborhood than it is to have cable.

      I made my choice, but honestly, I miss missing out on the latest shows (especially cartoons), when they come out, and the current cable pricing scheme makes it make less sense to "just have internet", than it did back then. Hell, technically that's not even an option anymore. After I move, they forced me to pay for extreme basic cable (Over the Air channels + The Weather Channel). It was the same price as before... until the promotion ended. Now I think I'm a mere $15, $20 away from what basic cable costs.

      In the Comcast house, they always win. If you want internet, you just have to make the best of it.

  3. Open CITIES to cable competition by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    We are past the transitional period when a company should be able to get a city to sign up for a monopoly provider.

    The cable should be open to anyone that wants to provide programming.

    You should literally have a choice of cable providers on the cable to your house like you do to the roku in your house.

    Opening the cable box to competition is a joke- a mockery.

    It should no longer be legal to allow one cable company to have a monopoly over a geographical area.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  4. All On-Premise Equipment Should Be Purchasable by JakFrost · · Score: 1

    Too many providers and ISPs are going back to the old Bell model of leasing the equipment to the user for huge markups like they used to do with telephones. For example AT&T U-Verse ADSL or VDSL modems can only be leased from the company at what is now $7 per month, when it was $4 originally, and it is soon going to $9 a month I've been told.

    This is the same scam that the Bell companies did with telephone leases by inching up costs until you pay hundreds for the same piece of equipment.

    You cannot purchase a DSL modem/router/gateway from the carrier nor from a store either since the service authenticates the equipment to make sure that it is the leased one and only authorizes it to work.

    What a scam and where's the FCC for the rest of us who have no choice to choose!

    1. Re:All On-Premise Equipment Should Be Purchasable by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Too many providers and ISPs are going back to the old Bell model of leasing the equipment to the user for huge markups like they used to do with telephones.

      Its no surprise that a business with a monopoly acts similarly with other businesses that have had monopolies.

      Legislate away a towns right to grant exclusive access. Legislate away a businesses right to legal remedy when they lose that exclusive access. Done.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:All On-Premise Equipment Should Be Purchasable by toonces33 · · Score: 2

      We cut our Verizon bill by about 50$/mo by switching out the five Verizon boxes for a bunch of TiVo boxes. All we needed from Verizon was one cable card (which we still pay something like 3$/mo for).

    3. Re:All On-Premise Equipment Should Be Purchasable by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      comcast does the same thing with there static ip plans you have to pay like $10-$15 to rent there hardware.

    4. Re:All On-Premise Equipment Should Be Purchasable by ssufficool · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I tried that. Verizon prices their DVR at $20 per month rental (California). TiVo DVR = ~$99 plus $15 monthly fee (For what, I don't know) + $5 month CableCard from Verizon.

      Coincidence that both = $20 per month? I think not.

      Just cut the cord, buy an OTA DVR for $50 and subscribe to Netflix or Hulu for the rest. Sorry about Walking Dead, but you will be a season behind.

  5. These bastards killed the CableCard by ElRabbit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Back in the 2000's I was closely involved in the CableCard business. Although the thing was (more or less) working the Cable companies did all that was possible to shut it down (overly complicated procedure to get cable card, low quality implementation ...). Since then I am now closely involved with European equivalent to CableCard, the DVB-CI+. Many operators are actively supporting this specification and surprisingly the TV subscription cost in Europe are two to three times lower than in Europe. Instead on pushing TV content to companies who are already making way too much money for their (our ?) own good. Why not revive the CableCard with today technologies. The latest DVB-CI+ specifications is based on USB, wouldn't that be sexy to just have to plug a USB stick in your TV to enable pay channels ?

    1. Re:These bastards killed the CableCard by toonces33 · · Score: 1

      CableCards still exist - we just got one a few months ago from Verizon to work with TiVo.

    2. Re:These bastards killed the CableCard by toonces33 · · Score: 1

      5$/month for Verizon. But with the Tivo boxes, we only need 1 for 5 TVs.

      The downside is buying a bunch of Tivo equipment, but the payback period is about 3 years.

    3. Re:These bastards killed the CableCard by toonces33 · · Score: 1

      Before the upgrade we had 1 Verizon DVR and 4 Verizon non-DVR boxes, and that ran about 54$ a month just for equipment rental.

      After the upgrade, the fees are 5$/month for one cable card. Over 3 years, that's around 1800$ savings.

      Upfront hardware costs are the Tivo Roamio, plus 4 minis, and a lifetime subscription. The minis are relatively cheap and have no subscription fee - they all run off of the Roamio (I think the Roamio has something like 6 tuners in it). I would have to look it up, but my recollection is that my upfront cost was about 1600$.

    4. Re:These bastards killed the CableCard by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      I'm using the evil Comcast / Xfinity or whatever they are now calling themselves.

      My cable card I use in my Tivo costs be -$2.50. That's right, they are crediting my account every month for not using their box. And I only need one card since I have Tivo minis for my other TVs which use the tuners and card in the main unit.

    5. Re:These bastards killed the CableCard by romco · · Score: 1

      Comcast uses cablecards. I have one in my TIVO.

      --
      AdFuel
  6. This is the US by Required+Snark · · Score: 1

    We don't do competition here, just monopoly.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  7. We could do better than this by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    The cable set top boxes that probably cost 50$ each wholesale are generating over 120$ of revenue per year. The cable companies will do everything legal and illegal to keep that cash cow going. Opening up the cable box segment for competition is a good idea. The cable companies are regulated monopolies, so opening up the set top box is doable, if the lobbying and sly tactics could be overcome.

    But this is just one part of the raw deal customers are getting from the cable companies. Without real competition on the ground there will never be end to the abuse by cable monopolies. There are other agencies in the municipal areas that have easements and rights of way. Power companies have lines to every home. Phone, water and sewer lines too. All of them can string fiber or cable to their street corner control boxes or something similar. There are many promising solutions for the last furlong. Wireless in the loop etc.

    What the government can do is to find a frequency band in the spectrum and allocate it for the wireless in the loop technologies. Bring real competition to the cable/phone markets, then set top box abuse will take care of it itself.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  8. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's in the best interests of the country. TV is a means to inform people and educate them. It also is recreational, which can improve the morale of people. An informed, educated, and entertained populace will also be more productive. Competition and open standards also encourages innovation. Congress and the President have the time to work on this issue. The government has become less productive in carrying out its legislative duties, as indicated by the decline in the number of bills passed by Congress and signed or vetoed by the President. The world operates at a faster pace than in past decades, so there probably ought to be more legislative work being done than in the past. While the number of bills doesn't take into account that the complexity of legislation may have increased, it still seems like there's less work getting done. In the present day, with the ubiquity of rapid transit, it sure seems like being a legislator ought to be a full time job. It's true that the amount of recesses by Congress has decreased, but it still seems excessive. Presidents also do a lot of travel and spend a significant amount of time campaigning, especially during the first term. Addressing this issue almost certainly isn't taking away from time needed by Congress or the President to address more pressing matters.

  9. Re:It's a good start, but hardly enough by Rockoon · · Score: 1

    There is no practical limit to bandwidth in the wired world. Just add another wire.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  10. Cost of tearing up the roads by tepples · · Score: 1

    Unless the city planned ahead and buried extra conduits in advance, the cost of 'just adding another wire' is the cost of tearing up and rebuilding the roads and/or sidewalks, as well as the cost of the inconvenience to commuters affected by the construction.

    1. Re:Cost of tearing up the roads by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      More competition will reduce prices and improve service.

      You can foot the bill for the infrastructure, or you can pay the monopoly price.

      Either way, you should hold your local officials accountable if they've fucked you this badly.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:Cost of tearing up the roads by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Unless the city planned ahead and buried extra conduits in advance, the cost of 'just adding another wire' is the cost of tearing up and rebuilding the roads and/or sidewalks

      Why do you imagine the city cares? One year a few years ago, the city tore up the street in front of my house three times, to put in new lines for public utilities. If anything, tearing up the same street again and again means more work for city employees and more money handed out to contractors, both of which the city likes. A city that doesn't plan ahead to minimize disruption also don't care about actually disrupting people.

    3. Re:Cost of tearing up the roads by tepples · · Score: 1

      If anything, tearing up the same street again and again means more work for city employees and more money handed out to contractors, both of which the city likes.

      Not if the city is running out of money due to tax cuts.

    4. Re:Cost of tearing up the roads by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Not if the city is running out of money due to tax cuts.

      When "cities are running out of money due to tax cuts", they use that as a justification to raise taxes again. Cities (and governments in general) have no incentives to save money and operate cost efficiently because they are not rewarded for that.

  11. Confused priorities by Trachman · · Score: 1

    Obama clearly said that health insurance will be cheaper than the cable television bill (meaning less than $100). Is he trying to reduce the cable bill, expecting that healthcare insurance will just follow?

    In reality, it is the healthcare system that needs real competition and deregulation. It looks like his teleprompter made an error.

    P.S. I am biased. I have never had cable television service in my adult life. Internet has everything, even television streams

  12. Who cares what he "urges"? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    When he signs some legislation on the subject, I will give a fuck what Obomber thinks about CATV boxes. Until then, he's just flapping his face in the wind, kind of like when claiming to give a shit about human rights while we bomb hospitals and drone strike children.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. If only they would invent a small card ... by Hohlraum · · Score: 1

    that the cable company provides that you could insert into your own cable box. /sarcasm

  14. Re: Why? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    It's in the best interests of the country. TV is a means to inform people and educate them.

    I see that you're of mere average intelligence (if that)...

  15. screw the box by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Remove the monopolies. Seriously, we should be limiting the monopolies.
    Fastest way is to say that no gov can proclaim a monopoly for fiber. In addition, we should break apart the monopolies and require that any transmission over a monopoly be split off from the non-monopoly part.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  16. Re:It's a good start, but hardly enough by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    or upgrade the plant Comcast still has systems at 650 MHZ or even 550 MHZ that need to work to go higher.

  17. Re:Why? by guises · · Score: 1

    All questions are valid, some are just stupid flamebait. But, all right, let's assume you're one of those children who think that cable TV is an antiquated relic and you have no idea how big and important it is. Even then, even in the case where you might be genuinely curious what all the fuss is about, phrasing your question as just another attack on the president renders it worthless as a means of furthering conversation. So... Hm. I guess not all questions are valid.

  18. deja vu all over again by gordona · · Score: 2

    In 1996-7 timeframe, the telecom act mandated retail access for cable boxes. This led to the open cable project at CableLabs which developed a portable middleware (OpenCable Application Platform, OCAP) and a removable security device (POD). The development of the middleware took nearly 10 years for development and acceptance starting in 1999. It is now legacy!

    --
    "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" -- Dr. Strangelove
  19. what and why. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    i wrote a comment about this for the red site.

    The FCC is essentially trying to create a software-based replacement for CableCard.

    CableCARDs were an olive branch from the FCC to cable companies to let them still control the signal transmission protocol but have to have a standard interface for TVs (CableCARDs). Cable companies resisted the proliferation of CableCARDs so much that it killed them before they ever became a thing, just like cable companies wanted. The FCC seems to understand that cable companies are unwilling to act in good faith so now they are standardizing mandating the protocol that set-top boxes use. By mandating the use of a standard open protocol, anyone can implement the equivalent of a CableCARD. However, now that TVs are coming with serious processors in them, i think the new generation of TVs will be decoding this standardized protocol on their own. While a good thing, this also means a tighter integration of network based streaming video services which sounds good but has proven to be poorly implemented on "Smart TVs".

    If you are skeptical about the effect this might have then you should just look at what happened with cable modems. Before the DOCSIS standard, cable modems were all ISP specific, expensive and slow which is what happened with the set top box. After the DOCSIS standard, things got faster, more compatible and far less expensive.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  20. That's not what this is about by Solandri · · Score: 1

    Clear QAM signals over cable would work if Cable TV were a binary thing - you subscribe and you get all the channels, or you don't subscribe and you get nothing.

    The cable box (or cable card) functions to limit the channels to the one you subscribe to. Channels in the basic package are usually transmitted unencrypted and can be tuned into without a cable box (I have my parents' TV set up this way). Pay channels and channels in higher tier packages are encrypted, and the cable box (which stores the decryption keys, same as a cable card) is used to decrypt them. As I have no interest in sports, and the most expensive channel in the non-movie channel lineup is ESPN, I rather prefer it this way. I just wish they'd regulate the price cable companies charge for a cable card to about $1-$2/mo. Some cable companies charge as much to rent a cable card as to rent a cable box.

    Anyhow, this story isn't really about cable boxes. Those were taken care of with the Federal mandate requiring cable TV networks to provide cable cards. You can buy your own cable box or equivalent (like a HDHomeRun), rent a cable card from your cable company, and it'll work. What this story is really about is breaking the vertical monopoly the cable TV companies hold. They own the pipes going to your home (the physical cabling), and they also control what content flows through those pipes (the programming you subscribe to). Requiring TV channels to sell their content to third parties for viewing over the third party devices, and requiring cable TV companies to honor such agreements by relaying the programs to such devices (at a fixed fee paid for by the device manufacturer) breaks that monopoly.

    It's analogous to how we tried to add competition to DSL lines. Your local phone company still owns the physical phone lines leading to your home. But they're required by law to allow other companies to sell DSL service over those lines. The DSL service is actually still provided by your local phone company, but instead of the Internet connection also being provided by them, it's provided by the third party DSL company (like Earthlink) who runs a major Internet connection to the phone company's central office. The third party DSL company pays the local company a fixed, regulated rate for the "last mile" DSL connection from the central office to the home.

    The local phone company is in effect forced to lease their DSL lines out to other companies at a flat rate, with those companies providing the actual Internet connection. The same thing is done for gas and electricity in lots of places. One company owns the pipes, another (including usually a subsidiary of the company which owns the pipes) provides the content flowing through the pipes. That's why you can buy electricity from a supplier who uses mostly wind generators if you wish. The electricity you get doesn't actually come mostly from wind. But as long as they put as much electricity into the grid as you're paying for, the numbers all balance out in the accounting books.

    The reason it hasn't worked so well for DSL is because of ambiguity when a problem occurs. Your DSL service goes down, you call Earthlink. They blame your Verizon phone line. You call Verizon, they blame Earthlink's Internet service. The customer is stuck with non-functional Internet while the company which owns the pipes (Verizon) and the company which provides the content (Earthlink) point fingers at each other. I had to deal with this a lot a former workplace (with a T1 line, whose market works the same way). The only way I could get anything fixed was to get Speakeasy (our T1 Internet provider) to call up Verizon (our phone line provider), and then in a big conference call force them to figure out exactly who is at fault and who should fix it.

  21. Typical Obama bodge instead of proper fix by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Typical Obama policy, a bodge instead of the proper fix for the actual problem.
    The right solution would be to get rid of cable boxes entirely by forcing cable companies to provide homes with an unencrypted signal that we can just tune with the tuners already built into our TVs.

  22. GOP values cost-efficient mayors by tepples · · Score: 1

    Cities (and governments in general) have no incentives to save money and operate cost efficiently because they are not rewarded for that.

    By whom? I was under the impression that Republican voters valued a mayor who runs a city like a business.

    1. Re:GOP values cost-efficient mayors by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      By whom? I was under the impression that Republican voters valued a mayor who runs a city like a business.

      You apparently are just chock full of wrong impressions and naive beliefs. You actually seem to believe that mayors have the power to cut spending over the wishes of administrators and unions, or that what voters want matters to politicians of either party.

      Stop seeing politics through your stupid and narrow-minded Republican-vs-Democrat lens. The biggest political affiliation in the US is "independent", and that's because politicians of either party screw voters and the people in similar ways.

  23. Some voters value fiscally conservative council by tepples · · Score: 1

    Correcting errors that you identified in post #51931939:

    Cities (and governments in general) have no incentives to save money and operate cost efficiently because they are not rewarded for that.

    By whom? I was under the impression that more fiscally conservative voters valued members of city council who run a city like a business.

    1. Re:Some voters value fiscally conservative council by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      By whom? I was under the impression that more fiscally conservative voters valued members of city council who run a city like a business.

      Again, your statement is full of erroneous assumptions. In fact...

      (1) Fiscally conservative voters tend not to live in cities in the first place.

      (2) Fiscally conservative voters tend to be a small minority in cities, so they have limited political influence.

      (3) City council members that run on fiscally conservative platforms aren't necessarily fiscally conservative.

      (4) Even if city council members are fiscally conservative, they are constrained by powerful administrators, lobbyists and special interests.

      (5) Businesses are profit maximizers; they are not "fiscally conservative". So, "running a city like a business" is not a fiscally conservative thing to do.