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North Korea Launches Missile From Submarine (cnn.com)
schwit1 shares breaking news from CNN: North Korea has fired what is believed to be a submarine-launched ballistic missile off the east coast of the Korean peninsula, the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff said Saturday. The missile was fired at 6:30 p.m. local time (5:30 a.m. ET), South Korean officials said, and appears to have flown for about 30 km (about 19 miles) -- well short of the 300 km (roughly 186 miles) that would be considered a successful test... Pyongyang carried out its fourth nuclear test in January. It said it succeeded in miniaturizing nuclear warheads to fit on medium-range ballistic missiles -- which U.S. intelligence analysts say is probably true.
We need a dramatic and overwhelming response NOW to this aggression. Lets send some students to protest!
I think the North Koreans are going to push the envelope until there is an actual military conflict (whether by intention or by accident due to miscalculation). Either way, the risk of the Korean peninsula winding up as a nuclear battleground strikes me as being rather high. I don't see negotiation as being a successful strategy with them as all previous agreements have been treated more as "temporary guidelines" by the regime. Hopefully, a way is found to bounce the crazies before the folks who are already suffering from pretty dreadful hardship in North Korea pay the ultimate price.
Sad state of affairs.
The US isn't daily threatening to turn other countries into radioactive ash.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Europe is taking fucktons of refugees. Frankly I think SK and China could definitely handle lots of NK refugees. In the case of SK, they ever speak the same language and most of their history is shared.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
I'd be more impressed if they launch a submarine from a missile.
Very quickly indeed...
Silence is a state of mime.
NK doesn't threaten to attack the US, it says that any attack BY the US will be met will a strong defence.
Anyway, this is a great step forward for peace, surely. Mutually Assured Destruction is a key to stopping devastating conventional wars, so any state that is threatened by the US should seek long range nuclear weapons. You can't argue that only the good guys get nukes, that's not how MAD works.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Right - Europe is far LESS able to absorb middle-eastern and african refugees, culturally, than China and SK would be able to absorb NK refugees!
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
WHY do we keep sending "humanitarian" aid to a country devoting a huge portion of its GDP to building offensive weapons instead of food for its own people?
If by poke you mean "completely ignore", yes, we should. Stop sending them food and force them to attack someone. Then nuke them when they do. Problem solved.
Except China.
Every end has half a stick.
1) China's isolationism is over. That ship has left dock and there's no turning back.
2) What's worse, SK trying to rebuild NK and accepting refugees, or SK getting nuked by NK?
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
Frankly it's worth a few 10,000s of deaths in Seoul.
That is a vast under-estimate of the casualties. In America, we have suburbs, in Korea this is what a suburb looks like. That's not a bad thing necessarily, and I think we need more like that in San Francisco, but with that kind of density, it's easy to see how 10,000 people could die in just a few shots.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Is it true that HP is working on an H1B solution?
It has been 70 years already since the first nuclear bombs were used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is only to be expected that scientific and technological progress democratizes these things. My phone has more computing power than every single 1945 computer in the world put together.
Millions of people know fairly advanced physics and electronics.
I am not a Naval buff, but NK apparently lost a submarine at sea a few months ago. I wonder if that was a failed test. Do any enthusiasts know whether NK has hidden drydocks to work on submarines, and whether NK's subs generally have the ability to launch missles?
Sounds like a perfect cover, all missiles never work, everything fails. They will never be a threat. Thats a pretty good track record, 0 success, everything blows up after a perfect launch. Build up a working arsenal, while everyone thinks nothing works. Nobody expects the fool.
NK doesn't threaten to attack the US, it says that any attack BY the US will be met will a strong defence.
Anyway, this is a great step forward for peace, surely. Mutually Assured Destruction is a key to stopping devastating conventional wars, so any state that is threatened by the US should seek long range nuclear weapons. You can't argue that only the good guys get nukes, that's not how MAD works.
Oh yes they have. I'm pretty sure I recall San Francisco being mentioned as well. Your theory also fails to take into account they're ruled by a megalomaniac dictator who's not exactly in the most stable state of mind. While I have doubts they'd actually be fired, it only takes one nationalistic soldier to press the button and BOOM! Both Koreas and a chunk of China forever destroyed.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Reading comprehension failure. They don't say they want to do it, they are just warning the US that they have the capability. In other words, ensuring that the US knows MAD exists.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
They CAN handle them, but they don't WANT them.
SK would definitely suffer for a period after they absorbed them - Not unlike Germany in the 1990s after the wall fell - But there are huge benefits too. NK has huge amounts of natural resources in the ground, possibly including rare-earth minerals. SK's coffers would benefits greatly from access to those resources.
Didn't the CIA send Tommy Lee Jones to take out the sub that NK was converting to fire missiles?
The destruction of the SK industry would not be entirely unwelcome by the EU industry, they are huge competitors.
Pretty soon North Korea will have a boat capable of reaching Japan (depending on the winds and tides).
Pretty clueless, aren't you. There's more going on and more at stake in the world than whether or not the NK is literally invading your neighborhood.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
It's been 60 years because the rest of the world keeps supporting them. Heck their very existence is based on foreign aid and the US saying "Ok, let's draw a line here."
MAD does not work so well in a multi-lateral environment.
We cannot "nuke the tar" out of NK as "blithely" as we could Russia or China.
The area is too small. Retaliation against NK ( as carried out by most options we have ) would also threaten at least China, and possibly Russia.
This limits our retaliatory options severely. Most nuclear options are off the table.
Conventional methods are much more difficult.
China has shown repeatedly that they OK with a modest, plausibly deniable, actions by NK that the US does not care for.
China is showing it has ambitions on the wider world stage.
NK has shown it is not lead by a rational person, and that it's internal politics are not amenable to this changing any time soon.
emt 377 emt 4
The problem is that their game plan is to have 3 key technologies that ensure they can always retaliate if invaded or even nuked completely. Submarines, sub launched missiles, and nuclear weapons on those missiles. With that combination you can always have subs in the deep ocean (on rotation) and waiting to hit the USA in retaliation. Once they have that nobody can touch them without a very large risk of getting at least one nuke onto a major city because they can get very close into the west coast of the USA making it much harder to intercept a warhead before it hits it's target. So if that gang is not shut down soon they never will be,
You clearly haven't been listening to republicans the last 20+ years.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
Hold on, I'll check with some of the million or so people killed when the North Koreans tried to force their rosy form of socialism onto the south. I'm sure you're thinking that's all imaginary, of course.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
If they have to get within 30km of their target, MAD does not exist.
We were too chicken shit to nuke them proper so apparently it didn't matter that much. Look how good of a country Japan is now after we nuked them. Now South Korea can nuke them if needed. So again, I repeat....Here kitty kitty kitty
You are correct of course. 99% of American's thinking on foreign policy is clouded by the delusion of American "exceptionalism." We literally think the world would descend back into the Dark Ages if it weren't for the USA.
The problem is that their game plan is to have 3 key technologies that ensure they can always retaliate if invaded or even nuked completely. Submarines, sub launched missiles, and nuclear weapons on those missiles. With that combination you can always have subs in the deep ocean (on rotation) and waiting to hit the USA in retaliation. Once they have that nobody can touch them without a very large risk of getting at least one nuke onto a major city because they can get very close into the west coast of the USA making it much harder to intercept a warhead before it hits it's target. So if that gang is not shut down soon they never will be,
In that case, the US response will be to kill a bunch of whales and dolphins.
That is, total-coverage with the Navy's low-frequency sonar that bursts the eardrums (or equivalent) of cetaceans within miles, making them unable to navigate, converse, or to find food by echo-location.
Note that the US West Coast is along the seasonal-migration route for numerous species of cetaceans.
Pretty much, China protects them, so make China pay to support them and it wont be long before China ends the problem. Fair and reasonable as China is the only country in the world that can resolve the problem, a trade, a bunch of small island for part of a peninsula.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Since when did u.s. Intelligence analysts suggest that NK likely miniaturized a warhead? Citation or link anyone?
You've obviously thought this through far more in the last 30 seconds than I have in the decade that I've been trying to get employment in DPRK. In which case you've got a good explanation why DPRK have changed from wanting to reunite the two Koreas to wanting to destroy one, and from wanting to destroy America to wanting to leave it alone.
History is not on your side. Most dictatorships, particularly in the Orient, survive for centuries.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
We praise Nevel Chamberlain who enables horrible things to happen while attacking Churchill who clearly explains what will happen and he turns out to be right.
The historians who specialize in political history have been telling the world this for decades. As usual, they only have part of the picture.
The military historians have a better idea just what Britain's capabilities would have been.
Hint: they would have been fighting the Luftwaffe over England with biplanes.
Fighting with biplanes actually happened in Greece and Africa during the early stages of the war, because those theaters were lower priority than Britain and didn't have the new monoplanes in significant numbers. One of Britain's top early aces - Marmaduke "Pat" Pattle - earned his kills in a biplane over Greece and Africa, fighting the Italians! The Royal Navy would operate obsolete aircraft - including biplanes - until late in the war, thanks to the "Bomber First" boys and inter-service rivalry (some former Royal Navy aviators have gone on record stating the first non-obsolete plane they flew was when US naval planes such as Corsairs started being supplied to the Royal Navy).
The delays created by Chamberlain's policies actually turned out to be critical, given how poorly prepared Britain was for war. There's a big difference between being able to make a modern fighter, and being able to make those fighters in sufficient numbers to survive the attrition of war. A large percentage of the parts in the early Hurricanes and Spitfires were not manufactured in Britain. Some had even been purchased from Germany prior to the war!
Churchill somehow missed all this when he "clearly explains what will happen". Of course, it's possible that Chamberlain didn't understand the issues either. Politicians!
China probably regrets stepping into the Korean War.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
North Korea might have the launched missile of those three pieces. They definitely do not have the submarine piece.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
MacArthur was a pompous fool riding the glory he got from WW1 and there are many situations in WW2 and Korea that showed that. There were UN leaders that wanted to stop UN forces at the neck of Korea where it was about 100 miles wide, which would have left 90% of the North Korean population in SK's hands. Instead he decide to go ahead and charge northward running towards the Yalu river and China using US troops instead of the Korea only forces that the Pentagon had said he should. Those double fuck-ups provoked the Chinese, caused all the reversals, and lead to the situation in which MacArthur suggested using nukes.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
We are making a huge deal out of North Korea doing test shots of missiles. How many have they done in the past year, 10 maybe 15?
In the US we do at least that many per month and not a damn person bats an eye. I know, I've taken part in such tests.
Just so you know, it is highly doubtful NK could even level Seoul, let alone all of SK. Yes, they have tons of artillery pointed at Seoul, but gunpowder doesn't last forever, and they don't exactly have tons of money to keep buying the powder (or paying people to man them) needed to keep the artillery running. Most likely, it is a paper tiger, not an actual usable method of attack.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?