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What Happened to Google Maps? (justinobeirne.com)

Google Maps has reduced the number of cities it shows by up to 83% over the past few years, according to Justin O'Beirne. Maps, in addition, has increased the number of roads it showcases. O'Beirne, who writes about digital maps, in a blog post outlines the changes Google has made to its mapping and navigation service over the years. The side-by-side screenshots comparison on his blog post shows that Google has largely abandoned labelling towns and cities in favor of showing as many roads as it can. He has also looked into several elements of Maps from the design standpoint, and questioned Google's decision. He writes: If these roads were so important that they deserved to be upgraded in appearance, why weren't they also given shield icons? After all, an unlabeled road is only half as useful as a labeled one. [...] [Comparing Google Maps to a paper map] Even though it's from the early 1960s, the old print map has so much more information than the Google Map. So many more cities. So many more road labels. And the text size is comparable between the two. O'Beirne believes that Google has made these changes to better serve mobile users. "Unfortunately, these 'optimizations' only served to exacerbate the longstanding imbalances already in the maps," he writes. "As is often the case with cartography: less isn't more. Less is just less."

263 comments

  1. Justin O'Beirn is a moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He may want to ask "What happened to HTML?" instead. Requiring JavaScript just to be able to display text and a few images is insta-fail.

    1. Re:Justin O'Beirn is a moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He may want to ask "What happened to HTML?" instead. Requiring JavaScript just to be able to display text and a few images is insta-fail.

      This.

    2. Re:Justin O'Beirn is a moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention offloading critical and basic elements to other domains. I've had to requestpolicy allow so many websites it's no longer funny and it's extremely dork age.

    3. Re:Justin O'Beirn is a moron by Keybounce · · Score: 2

      It's worse.

      With no scripts enabled, I see the text at my browser-specified font, the full size of my window. I see most of the images, but clearly I'm missing some.

      If I enable his site, I lose *all* of the images and my fontsize is changed so that it's no longer what my eyes can handle -- he knows my eyes, my monitor, my display conditions, etc., better than I do, and has decided that his horrible font is better than my choice.

      I'm not sure what I have to enable before his site "works", for some definition of "works" that says "End users don't know how to set up their browser, so I'll override everything".

      *that*, as a web-wide "whoops!" (the real meaning of WWW :-), is the problem.

      But seriously: adding his site's scripts breaks things even worse?

      (Firefox, NoScript, Privacy Badger, and AdBlock. And Stylish to fix a lot of broken "Crippled Styling System" files.)

  2. company serves customers by known_coward_69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    news at 11 most people use it for navigation in their cars, so roads are more important

    1. Re: company serves customers by tommyjcarpenter · · Score: 2

      lol, exactly. Why is this surprising?

    2. Re:company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most people use it for navigation in their cars

      Citation needed.

    3. Re:company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as turn-by-turn directions are clearly announced on my phone, I don't even care about the roads.

    4. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google are changing maps to supportable users.
      Not a citation, but google isn't completely stupid. They have seen heaps of mobile users using it to navigate. This isn't rocket science.

    5. Re:company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    6. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No road names/numbers and no city labels. As the author points out, the Google map (at least at that zoom, which I assume you can zoom into and get more detail) isn't very useful at all.

    7. Re:company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well they had a separate app called Google Places for exploring cities and they got rid of it and rolled in into Google Maps. Now they are getting rid of all the Places data in Maps. I really hope they roll out another Places, I currently use Yelp but Places was better in its hay day.

    8. Re:company serves customers by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think there is more to it than just showing more roads. Looking at the old maps, they are cluttered. The city names obscure a lot of the roads and details. If you don't know exactly where a city is, scanning for it visually is inefficient when you can just search. Most users will be searching anyway.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re: company serves customers by Malc · · Score: 2

      Well I'm finding myself increasingly turning to Open Streetmaps based software because of too many Google failures.

    10. Re: company serves customers by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      In 1800, Google assumed that people would see a map, and print a map, taking paper with them in the car. In 2000, google assumes someone will see a map and use it while traveling, so they will zoom and such when needed.

    11. Re: company serves customers by Pikoro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who the hell zooms out to a view where you can see 4 surrounding states as well when using maps for navigation? It's like holding a book at full arms length and then complaining about the size of the text.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    12. Re:company serves customers by FrankHaynes · · Score: 2

      Ahh, so YOU are the guy who keeps turning onto the railroad tracks!!

      --
      slashdot: A failed experiment.
    13. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people are just cunts who will complain about anything.

    14. Re: company serves customers by Rei · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. Honestly, I'm surprised there's anyone who's not of the view that Google has been going backwards in terms of their map interface and quality of what's presented for a long time. Heck, Google Search too.. "Yes, Google, I did want you to actually find pages with all of my search terms in it, rather than you randomly deciding that I was just kidding about half of them...."

      --
      "I know you have questions." "That would be why I just asked them."
    15. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as are most "ux designers".

    16. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      No road names/numbers and no city labels. As the author points out, the Google map (at least at that zoom, which I assume you can zoom into and get more detail) isn't very useful at all.

      UXtards happened.

      User Interface professional: "1920x1080 is a standard desktop resolution. There is adequate space for menus with words and for the actual map to have words like street names/numbers on it."

      UXtard: "ZOMG MOBILEFIRSTFLATDESIGN! Words ugly. Not like words. Not touch words with finger paw. Make words go away. No like reading. Use Javashit to hide everything that shows what you're looking for, make the menu fly out and obstruct 20% of the screen when you hover the mouse over the wrong pixels, and remember that nobody would ever want to have the last set of queries on while searching for directions! Two tasks, wipe out the first one! Elegant! Simple! Delete all functionality, then rewrite in latest Javashit framework Nothing but pure flat lines. Make all menus hide. Hamburger menu enough. !"

    17. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Honestly, I'm surprised there's anyone who's not of the view that Google has been going backwards in terms of their map interface and quality of what's presented for a long time. Heck, Google Search too.. "Yes, Google, I did want you to actually find pages with all of my search terms in it, rather than you randomly deciding that I was just kidding about half of them...."

      Or worse, Google Image Search, now with AI smartness: "I saw the word kidding. Did you mean 'baby goat?' and then it shows you 500 pictures of either goats on Pinterest. Because there are apparently no other image hosts other than fucking Pinterest.

    18. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I look at Google news on my two-foot-wide desktop monitor, each story summary is a single line or two going full width, minus the sidebars. This is just nuts.

    19. Re: company serves customers by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Yes, Google, I did want you to actually find pages with all of my search terms in it, rather than you randomly deciding that I was just kidding about half of them...."

      Even if you put a + in front of them they'll leave it out.......

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    20. Re: company serves customers by julian67 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I had mod points this post would get some positivity.

      "Elegant!". Too often I see applications, desktop environments, Linux distributions, even languages, described as "elegant". Through experience I have learned to automatically mentally translate this into "ill conceived, badly implemented, fucking stupid, actually worse than useless".

    21. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      They deprecated the + thing a few years ago. They now treat anything in double quotes as having a + in front.

    22. Re: company serves customers by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

      What kind of idiot uses Google Maps for navigation, when they could be using Waze, by the same company, instead? Waze is designed for navigation, and it does a way better job than GM.

    23. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was the best post of this year. You just forgot to mention about the removal of cursor key navigation. Previously Google maps could be used easily to look for new cycling routes, but since the bastards replaced cursor key support with mouse drag and my laptop has such a noisy mouse keys, I had to stop using it at night.

    24. Re: company serves customers by sciengin · · Score: 1

      I found a great article that complains about just that, entitled: The rise of the UX torturer:

      https://medium.com/@eshan/the-...

      Now he argues that it is done to generate profit, I agree in some cases. In the vast majority however it is a "follow the leader down the cliff" problem.
      They all see chrome doing it and want to do it too.

    25. Re: company serves customers by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      I use Waze for general navigation, but I use Google Maps when navigating to a location for the first time. Google Maps is far more accurate in terms of the position of addresses and doing a location search based on terms. It also has lane directions which is extremely helpful in urban areas with dense exits with multiple exit and turn lanes. Waze is far better at traffic routing though, but I do with they had the Google Maps feature of highlighting alternate routes on the map with time estimates. Many times Waze will route you on an extremely convoluted path through a neighborhood to save 1 minute. I'd frequently like to know that and decide to wait in traffic a bit longer to avoid a frustrating series of stop signs or a left turn onto a major road.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    26. Re: company serves customers by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Elegant, when done correctly, is based on simplicity forged out of deep intellectual forethought. The problem is, by design, the end result of what's elegant is often abstracted from the origins of its protégé. Effectively, that many anyone can create a simplistic design and pass it off as functional when in fact it's just an empty lackluster useless pile of UI; which BTW is the majority of "elegant" UIs these days. Even iOS which I consider an elegant mobile platform is suffering feature creep that's eroding this experience IMHO.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    27. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So when I get back crappy results that doesn't include all my terms, just put each individual word in quotes? Thanks, I'll try that.

    28. Re:company serves customers by Tighe_L · · Score: 1

      Looks much less busy, if you need directions you type them in an it labels your start and end points, if you search for a place it will label it. This guy is getting worked up over nothing.

    29. Re:company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I don't know where a city is, I will search. However, if I know approximately where it is, then I prefer to just scan. The problem is, you now have to zoom in to such a degree that your approximation has to actually be pretty precise, which is not my idea of an approximation.

      Yes, I could search for those...it's just not the way I like to do it. Yes, it would "save" time if I just searched instead, but the only reason it "saves" time is because they made it so that it takes longer if I don't. In much the same way that I could make the stairs the fastest way to get to the 20th floor by making the elevators stop for 1 minute at each floor, no matter whether or not anybody wanted to get on or off at that floor. Then I could proudly proclaim "take the stairs...it's faster".

    30. Re:company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK. I sure get that. If I'm trying to get from one point to another when I'm on the road, it is very likely I want to know where the cities are at the ends of the roads and also what the damn names and numbers are. Way too often do I have to zoom way in just to find something I need. Google maps have gotten to be really annoying lately. I've been trying out various alternatives.

    31. Re:company serves customers by plopez · · Score: 1

      Also, ESRI, Trimble, and Garmin ate their lunch.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    32. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google-fu is a dead art. I loathe anytime I have to search for anything remotely technical, with a obscure "misspelled" name, or in another language.

      Google works well for ignorant masses, not the competent.

    33. Re: company serves customers by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Google, has in the last two years, really begun to fuck up the things that made it great. The Simplicity of the search engine, that powered the search behind the curtain, and presented RELEVANT search results, has gone the way of presenting non-relevant information at the wrong time, in the wrong way, in what appears to be a direct attempt to annoy the user (customer).

      Case in point, on Android, the Popover notification for "important" messages, rather than using the previously usable (and out of the way) notification area at the top of the screen. So, while you're actively using your phone in one app, the notification activates over the top, gets in your way, and often causes you to accidentally change focus to the notifying app for no reason other than because it got in the way.

      I get the idea, for "Important" notification you want it presented to you, unfortunately what is "important" is set by the Apps themselves, and every app thinks it is "important" for everything it does. The user has no control, other than turning it off at the App level (or all together) defeating the purpose, and making it just an annoying thing you turn off (app by app).

      I should decide what is Important, not the App. And it should be tunable so that I can have my wife's txt messages pop up, but not my idiots friend's drunken ones. IT shouldn't be "all or nothing". I'd rather it just go away at this point, as it doesn't serve any purpose other than to annoy me at the worst possible times.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    34. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UXtards happened

      Oh my yes. I do wish we'd get people to focus on actual usability and functionality rather than all this "experience" and "design language" BS.

    35. Re: company serves customers by Mr.+Droopy+Drawers · · Score: 1

      In basic navigation, Google Maps still hasn't put the "Repeat directions" back in after their last update. Every other navigation tool out there allows you to press the title (or somesuch) to get the thing to repeat what it just said.

      Why can't Google's app do that too?

      --

      To Copy from One is Plagiarism; To Copy from Many is Research.

    36. Re: company serves customers by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      I tried out Waze after listening to people like you, and I found it completely lacking.

      One big thing that's missing is alternate routes: when I'm driving, Google Maps will show alternate routes and how much longer (or shorter) they'll take. It tells you to take a turn, but then shows a gray route in another direction (or straight) with a box saying "X minutes longer". This is pretty useful if routes are almost the same, but I prefer one direction or I'm not able to get to the correct lane in time or something. Waze never shows me this.

      Waze also has too much useless info: notifications of cars pulled over or cops in the area (most of which are obsolete).

      The only thing it seems to be any good for is letting people tell each other where speed traps are. But all the other things really aren't that great, and the UI is even worse than the one in Google Maps. At least GM is good at letting me set stars, find businesses, look at their hours of operation, phone number, reviews, etc. and then navigate to them. Waze seems like it's just meant for teenagers to drive to each others' houses.

    37. Re: company serves customers by dacaldar · · Score: 1
      I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been unable with this trend.

      I can think of two reasons for it:

      I'm an engineer, prefer dense/useful information more than the average person, who may respond more to pleasant look/feel first. Others on Slashdot are likely more similar to me than to the average user.

      Also, maybe the problem is that Google Maps is free. If they had to compete for my money, they would have probably lost it when they forced me off the legacy version a year or two ago. But if they add a feature which makes it worse, but directs 5% more Web traffic to a photo printing service, or serves more ads or something, unfortunately they should choose profit over a better product... and I'm getting what I paid for.

    38. Re: company serves customers by Christian+Henry · · Score: 1

      They deprecated the + thing a few years ago. They now treat anything in double quotes as having a + in front.

      Which is too bad, since one of the reasons for using quotes in Google Search is to reduce/remove fuzzy searching for each quoted term. <sigh>

    39. Re: company serves customers by Christian+Henry · · Score: 2

      What kind of idiot uses Google Maps for navigation, when they could be using Waze, by the same company, instead? Waze is designed for navigation, and it does a way better job than GM.

      Sadly, Waze is nowhere near as precise as Google Maps, since Waze uses pure GPS, whereas Google uses aGPS. This is crucial for highway navigation in certain regions (notably, where multiple, yet separate, streams of traffic run in parallel, such as the Toronto-Canada-area "Collector / Express" splits).

      On a related note, Waze still doesn't have lane assist.

    40. Re: company serves customers by LunaticTippy · · Score: 2

      What kind of idiot uses Waze for navigation when it is way more inconvenient? I can get most of my destinations in one or two keystrokes in GM. I try using waze and have to laboriously type in the entire frickin address like it is 1992. GM routes me dynamically around accidents and traffic and is so super fast, just a few clicks and I am on my way. Every time I have tried to use waze I have to click and click and click forever and its damn fruity interface makes me want to kill.

      I have tried maybe 20 times to use waze and never once found it to be very good. I keep trying it because of asshats like you you keep insisting that it is moar bettar.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    41. Re: company serves customers by mcswell · · Score: 1

      "...holding a book at full arms length and then complaining about the size of the text": Umm, I started holding books at arms length when I was in my forties. Now I have to hang them on the wall on the other side of the room. Ok, I can use those new-fangled pieces of glass that you stick in front of your eyes, and get a little closer.

      Wait until you get old...

    42. Re: company serves customers by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I noticed this awhile back. And I got ticked off at Google when they made their last change to Maps a year or two ago, after they had royally messed up News a few years before that (and ignored unanimous user complaints on their feedback pages). So I tried Bing and Yahoo. Unfortunately, for the things I search for (linguistics and computational linguistics articles, programming hacks), neither Bing nor Yahoo was anywhere near as good as Google. So reluctantly, I went back to Google. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    43. Re: company serves customers by mcswell · · Score: 1

      The latest victim (besides you and me, that is) is Adobe Acrobat--DC, I think is the version where it went to pot. Now there are two rows of information at the top that in any normal app would have one row, in a reasonably sized black font. But Adobe has to be different, so both rows are in a huge gray (= low contrast) font (or huge gray icons), with a huge amount of wasted white space. If you don't believe me (ok, AC, I think you would, but if other readers don't believe me), then do a web search for "Adobe Acrobat DC ugly".

    44. Re:company serves customers by mcswell · · Score: 1

      or onto those creeks that someone mentioned as being more visible than the roads.

    45. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that all search engines have built in priority sites? If you ask for something that amazon sells for example the amount of traffic amazon gets dictates that they get top billing on the search results page even if there is only one company that makes whatever you are looking for. Some companies also pay search engs to be in the top 100 results. Just because google is in the top tier doesn't mean they decided not to get paid

    46. Re: company serves customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly no. They also deprecated that. The double-quotes are merely higher weighted in the results.

    47. Re: company serves customers by samwichse · · Score: 1

      At least you can still click the "search tools"->verbatim option. I miss being able to do this with operators too, though.

      Sam

  3. They have multiple street names wrong.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have multiple street names wrong in my neighborhood. Whatever they are doing, it's a little bit sloppy.

    1. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Is the error in your neighborhood wrong on all map services? Your town may have put up misleading street signs when GPS was going through.

    2. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by TheReaperD · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the data on Google Maps is wrong then you can submit a correction. They offer this function for a reason.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    3. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by DavidRawling · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Only if your issue fits in a small number of categories and you live in the right country. Issues like "I live on a street that has been there for five years, but you still think it's non-existent" apparently don't qualify as needing correction.

    4. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by dugancent · · Score: 2

      Google has the street numbers swapped on the highway I live on (even should on the east side, and odd on the west side). I submitted a problem to them almost 3 years ago and about a year later I get an email response that says "we've looked into it and you're right" and that they would send another email when the correction was made.

      It's never been fixed.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    5. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      What street?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, it probably did get fixed, and then got broken again when they pulled data from upstream. Companies like Google and Apple get their mapping data from a number of providers, then merge that data together. If those providers give them bad info, if they just fix it in their local database, it will get stomped on by the next data pull. To fix it correctly, it has to get pushed up to the providers. If multiple providers give them incorrect data, it has to be fixed upstream by multiple upstream providers. Worse, those providers, in turn, get their info from multiple providers. This continues until you reach some government contractor.

      If you're really unlucky, the city planning office tells that contractor not to fix the data, because Google Maps says that it is correct. And then Google fixes it on their side, and then the city sends the wrong data to TIGER, who sends it to somebody else, who sends it to somebody else, who sends it to Google or Apple, reverting the fix all the way down the line.

      Submit a second report about the problem. Then at the same time, submit a report to your city planning office. Odds are at least even that they're the problem.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    7. Re: They have multiple street names wrong.. by dugancent · · Score: 1

      I just submitted it to google again. It's correct in Apple maps and on my TomTom.

      Waze is wrong too, but I assume they get their data from Google.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    8. Re: They have multiple street names wrong.. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Given that Google owns them now, I'd say it's a safe bet.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    9. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by plopez · · Score: 1

      "Companies like Google and Apple get their mapping data from a number of providers"
      Yep. Not just for streets but for fund raising, health care, threat assessment, marketing etc. Once a data stream is polluted it is almost impossible to fix. And all the fancy AI, ML, Statistics, weighting algorithms etc. will not fix it. Which is why I rant and rave about "eventually consistent" databases. They end up polluting the data steam. Much of Data Analytics is built on a foundation of sand.

      It's about data, not how you process and present it.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    10. Re: They have multiple street names wrong.. by mtxmorph · · Score: 1

      Waze is actually better, because you can edit the map yourself and fix it. Not that you should have to, but at least it's an option. You do have to have the appropriate access level to edit main streets and highways, but there are usually plenty of people online with access who can help you with things (see live chat). It also helps if you can point them to google street view to clearly show the problem.

      I've made several small edits to address locations, street names, and turn restrictions. They show up in app after Waze does a map dump (about every week, if I remember correctly).

      See: https://www.waze.com/editor

    11. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by laie_techie · · Score: 1

      They have multiple street names wrong in my neighborhood. Whatever they are doing, it's a little bit sloppy.

      I live on Maple Drive. About 3 miles away (same city) there is a Maple Loop. Google Maps calls my street Maple Loop Drive. I have lots of fun with home delivery.

    12. Re:They have multiple street names wrong.. by Herve5 · · Score: 1

      And.. you didn't go to Openstreetmap, where you could have added it yourself?
      What can I say. It may be your fault then, you know...

      --
      Herve S.
  4. When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...I still have hipsters looking at me with disdain.

    1) My paper has never experienced a fault while on the move.
    2) My paper has more detail than your electronic maps.
    3) My paper allows me to see more of the map at once.

    Google Maps is intended as a dumbed down service. Expect it to be dumbed down.

    1. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Daemonik · · Score: 1, Troll

      1) Your paper map experiences folding errors.
      2) Your paper map won't tell you to make a turn.
      3) Your paper map has to be replaced for a refresh.

      Google maps are used by millions of people daily for getting from point A to point B. You're dumb.

    2. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Dogtanian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You appear to have misunderstood the hipster phenomenon. "Hipsters" in the modern sense aren't really the type of people at the cutting edge of technology, or at least they don't pretend to be that way.

      Hipsters are the type of people who made Lomography rich by buying overpriced, overmarketed crappy film cameras bought purely for their imperfect, anti-digital aesthetic. Hipsters are probably the people that started the current vinyl revival, and likely don't care that much about vinyl per se, so much as a twee different-for-the-sake-of-being-different-in-the-same-way-as-everyone-else form of rebellion.

      Of course, they're probably just as "digital" as everyone else, if not more; Instagram is essentially that anti-digital aesthetic automated and faked via entirely digital means for the online social media age. However, the pretence is otherwise.

      They're the sort of people who probably *would* use paper maps just for the sake of being different. (This says nothing either way about whether paper maps are actually better).

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    3. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just looked at lomography...Wow...there are some terrible photographers with a lot of money.

    4. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      1) Have you never tried to fold a map?
      2) Only if you never zoom in and out with an electronic map
      3) again, only if you never zoom in and out.

      Apparently the primary issue is that you can't zoom. Fix that, and learn to pre-load maps for remote areas, and you'll be fine. I've never had a fault on the move. The only benefit of paper maps is when hiking. Be without power for a week or so, and most electronic maps won't work so well. And using compasses doesn't work the same on an electronic map as paper. But for driving (where you have power), there's no advantage in paper maps. Well, unless you don't know where you are going. I remember as a kid, using the map book and a phone book to look up addresses, then plot them on the map, with my location, then trace between them, and relay the directions to the driver. But these days, you look up your destination before you start, which loads the necessary information, and details between start and destination. So you don't need mobile data at all, so long as you have data available when you look it up to start.

    5. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) My paper has never experienced a fault while on the move.

      Mine have... water got on it and smeared the damned ink from the inkjet printer.

      2) My paper has more detail than your electronic maps.
      Bet it doesnt, go ahead and ZOOM your paper in.

      3) My paper allows me to see more of the map at once.
      Having an active dot on the map serving as a "you are here" is far better than trying to figure it out with paper while driving. I've done it before, I used to always ride with a paper map on my tank bag. Bought a $650 GPS this year for the bike and it kicks paper maps asses so hard it's not funny.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by QuasiEvil · · Score: 1

      I still *carry* paper maps on the road with me, but I very rarely ever use the darn things anymore. They're heavy, bulky, and having a blinking GPS dot that says "your dumb ass is right here" is rather handy sometimes.

      I have my tablet loaded with MAPS.ME, which is quite possibly the most awesome mobile application ever. It allows you to download all the datasets for anywhere you'll be (which are based off the OpenStreetmap dataset), such that you have very finely detailed maps at any zoom level with absolute certainty you aren't dependent upon a data connection. Unless you're carrying detailed local maps as well as large scale stuff, my electronics have you beat by a mile on #2.

      #1 has never been a problem for me. #3, yeah, I'll give you that one, but on a 10" tablet, it's not bad.

    7. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never navigated a forest.

    8. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Overall I prefer electronic maps too, but there are definite advantages in paper:

      They don't have batteries that expire when you need them most.
      They still work in tunnels and parking buildings.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    9. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by jofas · · Score: 1

      Aaannnd google maps still gets it wrong. A lot. There are utilities to both paper and gmaps.

    10. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read the article? It isn't just streets vs cities. What's the point of having all roads with the same thickness? Or roads that go nowhere, or nowhere that you can tell? Or cities that aren't connected to anything?

    11. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      I feel that paper maps are much better for developing a "feel" of the area/route. After looking at a paper map and tracing my intended route carefully, I am able to navigate by myself, more-or-less. But when I use navigation on a cellphone screen, I kinda just give up and do what the computer says because I just cannot see enough detail at once to really grok the geography. It may just be a problem with me ofc.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    12. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      ...I still have hipsters looking at me with disdain.

      1) My paper has never experienced a fault while on the move.
      2) My paper has more detail than your electronic maps.
      3) My paper allows me to see more of the map at once.

      Google Maps is intended as a dumbed down service. Expect it to be dumbed down.

      Real drivers know where they're going and don't need any form of maps. They look upon print and electronic map users alike with disdain!

    13. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Having an active dot on the map serving as a "you are here" is far better than trying to figure it out with paper while driving

      Most definitely but not just driving. I have a terrible sense of direction and wouldn't know my north from south. Even a hand drawn map is a challenge when using public transport. You arrive at 8pm, in the dark, and you're lost in a new city because you exited the train station at the wrong exit. Retracing your steps or asking a local who doesn't speak English well... And of course you won't have a map of the city unless you visit a tourist kiosk and in any case they might not have the neighbourhood you need in detail if it's just outside the tourist epicentre. But GPS isn't a cure all if you haven't downloaded the map offline and haven't had a chance to buy a 3G SIM yet! Such is the life of an international traveller :)

    14. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One of the things the army teaches people is how to fold a map so it's accessible and useful to you. You know those big pockets on cargo pants? They're map pockets. A folded map is still much bigger that any smartphone screen and gives you much better awareness of that gigantic cathedral that's just off to the side of your smartphone map. I do use my smartphone for navigation at times, but just as your actual desktop will always be bigger than your computer 'desktop', so a map will always be bigger than your smartphone screen. As for Google maps, the way street names and place names sometimes only appear at one particular magnification drives me to distraction. Zoom in, it's gone, zoom out, it's gone again. Man I hate that.

    15. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      People don't use phones for orienteering. It's not the right tool. The complaint "phones are bad for orienteering" is silly. The complaint that spoken directions are a bad replacement for maps is similarly silly. A phone with an Internet connection is superior to a map for all road-based car directions. You shouldn't be reading a map while driving, and the phone maps will be stripped of almost all useful information to show you your route at a glance, it assumes you are driving. You can't use a paper map while driving, at least not safely. A phone may not be "safe" but it is "safer".

    16. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      ...and you can't use them safely while driving.

      Paper maps have their advantages, but they are usually for planning when you can spread them out on a table before a trip AND if you have the right scale. During driving itself they are only better if you have an experienced co-pilot to serve as navigator.

      --
      bickerdyke
    17. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wherein the original post doesn't realize that he's actually the hipster in this scenario.

    18. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      1) My paper has never experienced a fault while on the move.

      Lucky you, my paper maps have suffered chocolate stains, insect damage (possibly related to the chocolate stains), a serious lack of updates, and darkness during the night because my driver refuses turn on the light inside the car while driving (or to stop the car to even look at the map).

    19. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News at 11: Cartographers make mistakes. Surveys are wrong. The world changes. Paper and digital maps are equally affected.

      The summary and article was primarily about the presentation of the information, not the correctness of it. I love how the discourse here always misses the point to focus on some minutiae!

    20. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. I've seen few people attempt to drive using a paper map (one was pulled over by the cops for it) and scores with the passenger navigating using one. I was also taught (both as part of my driving lessons, and by my parents independently) to use the road map to plan a route and write down a very simple summary with one instruction per line (eg Local roads to A417, A417/A419 25m, M4 70m, A4 5m, Stop at Queen's Gate for Natural History Museum). All a satellite navigation device in the car allows you to do is reroute without stopping and replanning, and without having to learn how to read a map!

      The paper maps are still more useful on a multiple-hour drive in the event of a major incident on a trunk motorway like the M1 as it gives you an easier view of how you can route around the problem completely (eg by accepting there will be delay and replanning the journey to include a visit to somewhere nice you can stop and walk around, rather than just concentrating on getting you to your destination as fast as possible)

    21. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      One has to ask why you are travelling to a foreign city without planning properly in the first place!

    22. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Extra batteries
      2. Offline maps

      Is problem solving really this uncommon on slashdot?

    23. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      You've never backpacked before?

      That means quitting your job, or letting your employment contract expire, to book a 90 day return flight to Europe and let the cards fall where they may. Sometimes that means deciding to leave a town at 10am checkout because it just feels time and booking a bus ticket to a random city on a whim. Don't overplan these things because spontaneity is exhilarating fun, whether you're 19 or 35.

      Some people prefer guided tours where everything is planned for you but I would find them constraining.

    24. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 1

      Except that, at no time in the past 15-20 years have I ever found it preferable to have or use a paper map over a digital one.

      But then I don't spend my days tracing extinct rail lines, or logging trails or the like.

      The vast majority of use cases are better served by the form factor and information level they are using.

      So how "wrong" are they really getting it?

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    25. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Sique · · Score: 2

      Originally, the lomography was a picture taken with the Lomo camera of soviet origin. A group of people from Vienna (Austria) was organizing collections and galleries of snapshot pictures taken with the Lomo, and they called it Lomography. Later, they looked for other cameras with a similar aura of imperfection and original design, and they sold it under the Lomography label.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    26. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by jittles · · Score: 1

      ...I still have hipsters looking at me with disdain.

      1) My paper has never experienced a fault while on the move. 2) My paper has more detail than your electronic maps. 3) My paper allows me to see more of the map at once.

      Google Maps is intended as a dumbed down service. Expect it to be dumbed down.

      If you're out hiking or camping, yes, I agree. Bring a paper map. Even better would be to bring a plastic coated map that is protected against weather and allows you to make marks on it with a grease pencil. But in my car I have my phone and my GPS unit that will allow me to view the map without needing a GPS satellite. I can manage just fine around town and even on a road trip. I know where I am going in general because I've already studied a map before I left. I usually want turn by turn directions to make sure that I don't make a wrong turn when getting to a new destination. Your paper map won't give that and I can always stop and get directions OR a paper map if I am absolutely desperate.

    27. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are a retard that cant even fucking read.

    28. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people use a phone GPS in the car. You should really keep a charger in your car. Going on a road trip and not having one is dumb. Phone chargers can be picked up at any gas station convenience store for a pittance.

      I've never heard of a tunnel more complicated than one entrance and one exit. If you need a map to navigate that, then I think you need more help than that. Parking buildings don't need a map. They have clearly marked entrances, exits, and floor numbers. If you can't get a GPS signal, go outside or stand near a window. You are inside tunnels and parking garages for such short amounts of time that the inconvenience of not knowing where you are is mitigated by instantly knowing where you are and how to get to your destination the moment you leave by using an electronic map.

    29. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      1) My paper has never experienced a fault while on the move.
      2) My paper has more detail than your electronic maps.
      3) My paper allows me to see more of the map at once.

      4) My paper map is always here in the glovebox. Last time I used it, Google maps didn't even exist...

    30. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You are the hipster. Hipsters, if I am permitted to make a generalisation, use arcane technology, loudly, and to make some sort of point. They prefer vinyl over digital, old inefficient bikes over newer models, glasses instead of contact lenses, and so on. Obviously not all hipsters fall into this stereotype.

      So you parading around extolling the virtues of paper maps is something one would expect from a hipster.

    31. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by plopez · · Score: 1

      You are confusing usage with accuracy. We do not know how they got their. Easily and straight forward or after wrong turns and turning off the google map in frustration and asking for directions.

      Try again.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    32. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by plopez · · Score: 1

      " A phone may not be "safe" but it is "safer"."

      Not in my experience. Citation please to any research that supports your point. I will cite http://www.iii.org/issue-updat...

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    33. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When fishing, I find printed topo map books are pretty handy for showing little streams and things my GPS doesn't show. And I can scribble on them with pencil to make notes on good spots.

      But most of the time it's GPS all the way.

    34. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by rwise2112 · · Score: 2

      Aaannnd google maps still gets it wrong. A lot. There are utilities to both paper and gmaps.

      And, paper maps often have intentional errors.

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    35. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I do it all the time with OsmAnd on my phone. It even shows all the hiking trails, as long as someone's bothered to upload them to OpenStreetMaps.

    36. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      water got on it and smeared the damned ink from the inkjet printer

      Not the maps you can buy at your local gas station

      ZOOM your paper in

      Don't have to. It's got all the detail it needs.

      Bought a $650 GPS this year for the bike and it kicks paper maps asses so hard it's not funny.

      I paid a few bucks for a paper map at the gas station. I don't have to keep feeding it batteries, nor do I have to worry about the batteries running out in my time of need.

      Paper maps, FTW!!

    37. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that, at no time in the past 15-20 years have I ever found it preferable to have or use a paper map over a digital one.

      Back when I was doing onsite technical work at locations unknown to me, I found that a map book used by truckers and delivery drivers beat google maps hands down, especially when roads were new or recently changed.

    38. Re: When I carry old printed maps... by jofas · · Score: 1

      Depends on your use case. For finding fastest route to an area, Google Maps is awesome. But consider how many 911 dispatch services for police/fire/ambulance use Google maps... probably next to none. And that's because Google maps is good at statistically likely matches... matching your current location with a (rough) destination using the most efficient path? They're great. Making sure the cops arrive at the correct house for a domestic disturbance? Not so much. Because that "Last mile" is left to the user, this fuzziness also makes the Google Maps approach totally unsuitable to have an Amazon drone deliver your package. Ironically, the most reliable guide I used in my delivery days was something called an Arrow Street Guide, which had no map at all... it was a series of cross-referenced tables of streets, intersections and address ranges. Because its smallest unit of measurement was the "block", it was VERY accurate. Of course, it presupposed some knowledge of a city, but this definitely speaks to the fit of a tool to the application.

    39. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Huh? When I carry paper maps hipsters fawn over me. They lovingly bring out their parallel rulers, dividers, sextants, quadrants, compass, mechanical rangefinders, and typewriters and we discuss how much finer things were when they were much more difficult and less functional.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    40. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      All the time in state parks. Most open street map datasets have the trails on them. plus there are TOPO datasets for better hiking GPS's for when you want to ignore the trails.

      You do know that there is a HUGE segment of GPS's for the outdoors type that like to walk through and camp in the wilderness right? The Garmin montana I have for hiking even shows locations of water wells and USGS benchmarks on the map.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    41. Re:When I carry old printed maps... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Or, alternatively to ChunderDownUnder's backpacking example ... the phone goes at 03:00 that one of your colleagues has been taken unwell at work, and you're needed to replace them ; 10:00 you're getting your arm perforated with the appropriate vaccinations. 15:00 you're on a connecting flight ; 19:00, you're on an intercontinental flight ; 10:00 next day you're navigating a foreign city and you've just discovered that they don't use GSM but some strange other phone system, so you've got nothing but a couple of print outs of contact information.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  5. Same thing with Streetview by jwymanm · · Score: 2

    Disappearing content more than appearing. Right to be forgotten, privacy, etc. It's all good and dandy but boy was Streetview way more usable just a couple years ago for telecom purposes and what not. Maybe a good thing since it's better to support open especially for cartography purposes. Oblig http://www.openstreetmap.org/ link.

  6. google maps has always been terrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Google maps has always been terrible compared to the old paper maps from the 1980s and earlier. It's like the Google Maps people threw every convention that road mapmakers used and decided they could do it better.

    They still haven't done it better.

    1. Re:google maps has always been terrible by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Compared to a good paper map, it's really bad at showing you the lay of the land - but it beats the heck out of having to buy paper maps everywhere you go, and is a lot easier than taking directions from most people (who suck at directions). All you have to ask is whether Google Maps correctly identifies where there house is.

  7. This minimization approach is everywhere now too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everybody is adapting the web for the phones and removing important and useful features in the process. Whereas some sites in the past had a minimalist phone version we're getting stuck now with major sites eliminating critical features for everybody. I don't really know what to do about it, but I don't like it. I guess the only thing one really can do is look elsewhere. Unfortunately in many cases there are monopolies or features missing from other companies products / service in part due to these entities disproportionately smaller size.

  8. Change in the way we use maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    While comparing the maps is part of the equation, what about comparing how consumers use them? To find a city on Google Maps, you use the search feature. Perhaps the reduction in the number of cities displayed is to guide that behavior?

    It is a Google product after all.

  9. Disk space? by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

    Maybe they ran out of disk space.

    --
    C|N>K
    1. Re:Disk space? by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Or bandwidth... Google Maps is slow on my connection.

    2. Re: Disk space? by galgon · · Score: 1

      This! Maps is much slower to load these days since the UI upgrade a few years ago. I love google maps just make it load faster!

    3. Re: Disk space? by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 1

      I wonder... is Google charging monopoly rent in the form of sucky service? All of their competitors went under...

    4. Re: Disk space? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my bandwidth improved from 8Mbps to 150Mpbs but maps load longer by multitude; and any drag or zoom stalls browser.
      Probably optimized to "hey, everyone surely have 8-core processors, 32GB of ram and gtx980 by now".

  10. Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by ffkom · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... than Google Maps. OpenStreetMap has way more details and much more up-to-date information - the only thing it doesn't have is, of course, sattelite images - but I hardly need those to navigate. The biggest plus of OpenStreeMap of course is that I can use it completely offline, and I don't have to share my life with Alphabet, the data Kraken company.

    1. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can use Google maps offline too

    2. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be seriously interested in how I can download the whole of the UK map...

    3. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a dedicated GPS for driving and used google maps for my business. I stopped using them after they forced me to upgrade to the newer version (I even ditched chrome for ff and google for ddg at the same time).

      It seemed like every time I would get a process down they would change some minor detail I would have to figure out a new way of doing things. Sure I can learn, but most of the time I want to go about my work and get it over with. I spend literally seconds on each stage maybe 10-15 times a week, so any improvements that they make for me at best are lost in he noise. I wasn't their target group in any event so I'm sure they won't miss me.

    4. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Look into Nokia HERE maps (seriously). It's free and let's you pre-load map data for a LOT of countries, so you can use the app completely offline. iOS and Android versions both exist.

    5. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Not_Wiggins · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's a really (basic) reason why Open StreetMap has longer legs than ANY of the commercial company solutions (like Tom Tom, Nokia HERE (ex-NAVTEQ), GoogleMaps, etc).
      The problem is solely one of maintenance.
      How do these companies get their maps? They do so by driving over roads with equipment that collects GPS data (of varying degrees of accuracy... not important to talk about methods/accuracy for this particular point).
      Think about that... when a company first launches (like Google Maps did a number of years ago), they can be "accurate" because they just drive around everywhere for the first time. That's relatively easy to track.

      But then... changes happen. Roads get new construction, or there are new areas that are built up (with new roads or roads get new paths).
      How does one keep track of all the changes that can happen anywhere in the world? One can't.

      Well... a centralized company "can't." It is logistically improbable to keep a map up to date unless a company is planning on continuously driving every road because, frankly, it isn't notified about all the little changes that can happen anywhere; it takes a really long time to "drive every road."

      It is no surprise that Google Maps has started to suffer from this. They were driving around and collecting their own data to make the maps and compete with the "other maps/navigation companies."

      To that end, a concept of community supported map update (like OpenStreetMap) makes sense; I *know* when the street outside my house has changed. I can go someplace and make an update/submit information about a change when it is community based. In fact, I had to do this on several map company sites because my street was "new" for a new sub-division.

      Now, with that said, there is one thing I'll say about Google Maps that might be a saving (?) grace: anyone using Google on their cell is "phoning home" a ton of information... including location (wonder how Google knows about traffic conditions when they don't have implanted sensors/cameras on the roads?). If they were to try and leverage that information, perhaps the map data can be kept up to date by (indirect) consensus based on drivers GPS intel. Of course, you won't get a lot of detail about non-popular travel points. And maybe that's the point... if they're dropping detail related to the less traveled/popular locations, that can fit with dropping their "go drive everywhere and measure it with a Google truck" plan.

      I don't work for Google, so I can't speak directly for their strategy.
      It just seems to fit a common problem with keeping any map up-to-date. How any company can keep an eye on relevant changes in a timely fashion?
      Looks like they've given up on trying to "get it all" and are falling back on easy data from the Google hive mind. 8/

      --
      Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
    6. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Kinnison · · Score: 1

      I use Here Maps exclusively. The entire USA is about 4 GB. Granted, I don't use my phone for music.

    7. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > How do these companies get their maps? They do so by driving over roads with equipment that collects GPS data (of varying degrees of accuracy.

      It's not only "GPS data", GPS data is hard to track while moving. Much of the data is now wifi access points, with upstream maps stored and generated based partly on GPS, partly on dead reckoning, and partly on other forms of correction.

    8. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by kdayn · · Score: 1

      I have discovered that Google Maps also have an offline mode, where you can select an area on map and download it.

    9. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HERE maps recently dropped support for Windows phones. Bummer - it was one of the few selling points (besides the low cost for actually pretty robust hardware from Nokia/China, and frankly a Win8.1 implementation that works very well and reliably). Not sure what to replace it with. At least, since my phone is too lightweight to get Win10, I'll still get "critical updates" from HERE, but no more map updates.

    10. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by SmilingBoy · · Score: 1

      You can download quite large rectangles now (much larger than they used to be). If you really need the whole of the UK, you should be able to download in 10 or so parts.

    11. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by jittles · · Score: 1

      How does one keep track of all the changes that can happen anywhere in the world? One can't.

      Well... a centralized company "can't." It is logistically improbable to keep a map up to date unless a company is planning on continuously driving every road because, frankly, it isn't notified about all the little changes that can happen anywhere; it takes a really long time to "drive every road."

      It is no surprise that Google Maps has started to suffer from this.

      You do know how Google maps works, right? They literally have millions of cars driving around all these roads every day. The users are the people that help them keep the maps correct. That's part of the reason they bought Waze. How do you think the real time traffic works?

    12. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Now, with that said, there is one thing I'll say about Google Maps that might be a saving (?) grace: anyone using Google on their cell is "phoning home" a ton of information... including location (wonder how Google knows about traffic conditions when they don't have implanted sensors/cameras on the roads?).

      FYI, that doesn't necessarily happen the way you think it does. There are companies that make devices to track all cellphones (including iPhones and dumbphones) by their cellular emissions, or sometimes Bluetooth, and then sell that (aggregated) traffic data to Google, state DOTs, etc. (See this article, for example.) It's not that Google programmed the phone to report its location over its data connection; it's getting tracked much more indirectly.

      Of course, if you're using Waze then that really is directly reporting your location over your data connection.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    13. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      How do you think the real time traffic works?

      There exist third-party companies (e.g. Inrix) that monitor cellphone emissions in aggregate and then sell that information to Google, state DOTs, etc. (In some cases the cellular providers themselves may collect the data; in others, the traffic-data company may install sensors along the roadway.)

      Waze does indeed report location directly using each phone's data connection, but that's hardly the only (or even the most common) way to do it. Google maps was providing Inrix-sourced traffic data long before it bought Waze.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    14. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by jittles · · Score: 1

      How do you think the real time traffic works?

      There exist third-party companies (e.g. Inrix) that monitor cellphone emissions in aggregate and then sell that information to Google, state DOTs, etc. (In some cases the cellular providers themselves may collect the data; in others, the traffic-data company may install sensors along the roadway.)

      Waze does indeed report location directly using each phone's data connection, but that's hardly the only (or even the most common) way to do it. Google maps was providing Inrix-sourced traffic data long before it bought Waze.

      I know they were providing it long before they bought Waze. But they use data from the phones running Google maps to get the most accurate and real time traffic info. Waze just allows people to crowd source things like accidents and construction instead of relying solely on commercially acquired data.

    15. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by akunkel · · Score: 0

      I have reported many errors that I have found on Google Maps to the team using the tiny "Send Feedback" link in the lower right corner and they have always sent me a response when the issue has been resolved. It takes a month or two but they are listening and fixing. I regularly contribute to OpenStreeMap as well. I use many different map sources/software/apps and pick the appropriate one for my situtation.

    16. Re:Where I live, OpenStreetMap is much better... by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

      I can't install that, it wants to read my texts and contacts list and have the ability to make phone calls and access my photos. No ****ing way, especially as I also took a look at the privacy policy which is as vague as Donald Trump and basically says it'll share everything and anything without limit.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  11. More is not better by jgotts · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The best analogy I can give is comparing maps of Amsterdam, the Netherlands, Paris, and France available from 2000-2005 (over the years, I bought a thick stack of them) when I was frequenty traveling to Western Europe with American style maps, for example, AAA maps from that era.

    The European-produced maps I looked at were extremely detailed. They seemed to lose track of the forest for the trees. It seemed like they had to label everything, and that they were going for photo accuracy with road routes, etc.

    On the other hand, AAA maps lack a lot of detail but they're much easier to use "at a glance." They aren't as precise, but they give you the gist much better. You were able to pull over and look at a AAA map and get your bearings within minutes. You could even carefully look at a AAA map while driving.

    The European maps I looked at, on the other hand, I think were meant to be studied for 15 minutes before setting out on your journey. If you pulled out one of these maps while walking around in a sketchy area, for example in shadier parts of Amsterdam, you were liable to get mugged. On the other hand, armed with one of these European-style maps at your hotel room, you would need nothing else to get to your destination. The incredibly detailed map would give you an unambiguous route to your exact destination.

    Now that they don't make many printed maps anymore, we have a similar situation for online maps. You don't want or need a super-detailed map on your phone. You want something that will get you to your destination in an expedient fashion. In fact, the map itself is less important than the route. Do you need to browse a map with every street, city, town, and park on your phone? No way. You type in the exact place you want to go and your phone takes you there. If you want to explore a detailed map at your leisure while sitting at home don't use smartphone app. Don't use Google Maps. Find something else. To most people this use case is not wanted, and added detail is unwanted distraction.

    1. Re:More is not better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't about completely disabling detail. It is about what you see at the different zoom levels.

    2. Re:More is not better by JanneM · · Score: 2

      It's called "Google Maps"; though, not "Google Driving Instructions". You note yourself that finding the route from A to B is only one possible use of a map. Google Maps is increasingly failing at most of those other uses. perhaps they should rename it to "Google GPS" and leave the actual map field to other companies.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    3. Re:More is not better by sk999 · · Score: 1

      Back in the day of free maps from gas stations, the ones from Esso (made by General Drafting Co.) were considered the best. I still have my copy of "New England Road Map" from 1988 (this one made for Shaw's Supermarkets, not Exxon). AAA maps are also quite good, but my local AAA is now closed.

    4. Re:More is not better by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Now that they don't make many printed maps anymore,

      FWIW you can still go into AAA and get a whole case of them free (for members).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:More is not better by TMB · · Score: 1

      And every US state has official road maps for free at the first visitor's center after you cross the state line.

    6. Re:More is not better by rsborg · · Score: 2

      It's called "Google Maps"; though, not "Google Driving Instructions". You note yourself that finding the route from A to B is only one possible use of a map. Google Maps is increasingly failing at most of those other uses. perhaps they should rename it to "Google GPS" and leave the actual map field to other companies.

      They should just call it the Google Positioning System... you know, GPS!

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    7. Re:More is not better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      AAA maps aren't what they used to be. The state clubs used to do their own mapping and updates, with a close relationship to the highway and local government agencies who notified AAA when something changed. No more; they come out of some contractor to national that seems to just print out the worst-quality mapping they can find from the internet. Much harder to read than the old ones. And they've cut way back on the number of places that actually have real street maps; the regional maps have much less detail than they used to. It's almost at the point that, before a trip, I'll print out the relevant local areas and decision points from OSM and slot them in with the AAA regional map - can't rely on AAA any more to give me both the big picture and the details I need..

  12. It's not just cartography anymore. by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's UI design, and that's task-oriented.

    Paper maps are highly versatile, general purpose tools. You can do all kinds of things with them, and generally speaking the more data they cram in (in a clever way of course) the better. They're like a swiss army knife; you want them to serve in any possible occasion.

    Digital map displays are embedded in a user interface; they're a backdrop that provides the user with useful contextual information as he attempts to perform some specific task. The better you understand how the user performs that task, the more you can pare down irrelevant context that might detract from that task. Now there have been many times I wished the Google Maps UI was a little more versatile, but in general it does really well at the kinds of search and navigation tasks people mainly use it for, e.g. finding all the doughnut stores in Quincy, MA.

    So basically you can't automatically apply criteria you'd use in a paper map to a digital display, although it's certainly helpful to under stand those criteria.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:It's not just cartography anymore. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.. how many people are going to try and print out google maps? Next to no one. His comparison to a good printed map is laughable. Whats even more funny is how he says "if he is list" he would want to use his version of google maps, so he would have a smart device with internet connection, but no GPS. Seems pretty unlikely. Even more stupid is that he could simply search for the name of two streets at any corner and figure out where he is and get a route to where he is going.

      The idea of following route numbers and confirming your location with route number changes and road names is basically redudant. The purpose of google maps isn't to provide a map. Its to provide a route and travel directions.

    2. Re:It's not just cartography anymore. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I just checked google maps printing. When you print it actually adds more names and routes that arn't displayed. It will subbtle change the zoom level to make them fit as well. So it certainly seems that google know how to treat a printed map, and want the interactive screen to be different.

    3. Re:It's not just cartography anymore. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.. how many people are going to try and print out google maps? Next to no one.

      I do it all the time. It's a lot easier for me to glance at an 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper than to fumble around, turn on the phone, make sure the screen is oriented properly, oh shit a call came in so now I have to clear that and go back into Google Maps, oh shit I accidentally tapped somewhere on the screen and now it zoomed me back out to a nice view of the whole state...

      When I'm driving I'd much prefer to have a printed map and my phone in my pocket. That has the added bonus that if I ever get pulled over for something, nobody's going to accuse me of texting while driving.

    4. Re:It's not just cartography anymore. by hey! · · Score: 1

      Which is why I always say never to assume that people use a system the way you would. But I do think the proportion of people who do this is a lot smaller than it used to be.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:It's not just cartography anymore. by jrumney · · Score: 1, Funny

      It's like the guy took a road atlas from 1978 and started complaining that it didn't indicate as many submerged rocks as his the chart his forebears sailed to the US with. And this is what passes for front page news on slashdot these days...

    6. Re:It's not just cartography anymore. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 0

      It's UI design, and that's task-oriented.

      the Google Maps UI was a little more versatile, but in general it does really well at the kinds of search people mainly use it for, e.g. finding all the doughnut stores in Quincy, MA.

      So, you're telling us that you're a cop?

  13. Choice by markdavis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What this does is highlight what Google is famous for- not giving any user choice. It runs throughout most of their products and platforms.

    Instead of deciding for us how something must be to best meet the assumed majority, what would be nice would be to simply let us CHOOSE what options we want. What font size, if we want the scale meter to be shown, how much detail we want to see, etc.

    I am sick of the "modern" "simple" design of everything that is supposedly so superior... because it isn't. Removing all controls and choices, hiding everything, getting rid of settings, etc. No thanks.

    1. Re: Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you are now famous for what most users are... Not knowing the options you complain about already exist.

    2. Re:Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Time for your nap Grandpa. You're getting cranky.

    3. Re: Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think some design leader suffer from obsesive compulsive dissorder and can't handle complexity, just as like some millenials above, brain washed by facebook usage. They really need simple things they can understand.
      This is the only reason I could find for that flat, stupid design.

    4. Re:Choice by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am sick of the "modern" "simple" design of everything that is supposedly so superior... because it isn't. Removing all controls and choices, hiding everything, getting rid of settings, etc. No thanks.

      Agreed 100%. Let me choose the options and settings I like. Isn't that what computers were supposed to be all about?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    5. Re:Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What this also highlights is how ridiculous it is that openstreetmap hasn't already made the criticism irrelevant. In a hundred years, we'll look back to this infancy of technology and wonder how things remained so crappy for so long. Forget criticizing Google, focus your criticism on the most open alternatives, as they have the lowest bar to enhancement.

    6. Re:Choice by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"What this also highlights is how ridiculous it is that openstreetmap hasn't already made the criticism irrelevant"

      I will say it is amazing how much openstreetmap has improved over the years. I really didn't expect it to get so nice...

    7. Re:Choice by Trogre · · Score: 2

      Yes, although the interface does seem to have inexplicably wildly different paths to accomplish the same task. Try, for example, adding a waypoint to a route whilst navigating and whilst not navigating, while keeping the destination unchanged in both cases.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    8. Re:Choice by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      I am sick of the "modern" "simple" design of everything that is supposedly so superior... because it isn't. Removing all controls and choices, hiding everything, getting rid of settings, etc. No thanks.

      You can thank Steve Jobs and the Apple Fanbois club for that. That is where that bullshit "zen" aesthetic came from that is so popular.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    9. Re:Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen... amen

    10. Re:Choice by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I am sick of the "modern" "simple" design of everything that is supposedly so superior... because it isn't. Removing all controls and choices, hiding everything, getting rid of settings, etc. No thanks.

      The problem is that this is what people want. They don't want choices. If you do, you're either a liar, or a tiny, tiny minority.

      Proof: Gnome vs. KDE on Linux. You'd think that Linux users, of all people (let's face it, Linux users are not mainstream), would think just like you: "I want choices! I want configurability! I want to be able to customize my desktop!". Well, KDE did just that, while Gnome has taken the opposite, minimalist approach, that options should be removed to "simplify" things. Which desktop is doing better? Well, it's not KDE. Even when Gnome went too far, its users decided instead they'd prefer to fork Gnome rather than just adopt KDE and set some configuration options (or just make a theme or something). And just look at the comments on forums like this, among actual Linux users, any time this topic comes up for debate: "I don't want to have to wade through dozens of menus setting configuration options just to use a desktop. I want everything to be set up for me out of the box."

      So don't blame Google. They're giving people exactly what they want. People do NOT want configuration options. They don't want "sane defaults", they don't want there to be any choice at all. They want it to be set up in a way they can use from the outset, and they absolutely don't want there to be the possibility for it to be changed, or for other users to set their differently.

      Now I'm sorry, but I can't explain this mindset at all since it's so alien to me, but I'm just describing my observations in countless places. And again, this isn't even mainstream Apple and Windows users here, this is Linux users, who you would think would be the most pro-user-choice. But no....

    11. Re:Choice by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. If people wanted options and setting, KDE would easily be the leading desktop on Linux (a group who logically should be the most in-favor of options and settings). Instead, it's not; Gnome is, and it has the minimalist, no-configuration mindset you disagree with.

    12. Re:Choice by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"Proof: Gnome vs. KDE on Linux. "

      That would not be the best example. You are making the assumption that the primary reason Gnome is popular is because there is so little user settings. The more likely reason is that several major distros chose Gnome as their default desktop before KDE came around.

    13. Re:Choice by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      No, it's not.

      So computers are not about letting people do what they want, but are about forcing you to do whatever the designer wants? I have to disagree.

      As far as Gnome goes, I don't know if it's the most popular or not (citation needed), but I've heard plenty of pushback against it and the "screw you, we know what's best for you" mindset of the developers.

      Popularity doesn't always equal quality. KISS was an extremely popular band in the 80's, but that doesn't mean that their music was good.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    14. Re:Choice by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      So computers are not about letting people do what they want, but are about forcing you to do whatever the designer wants? I have to disagree.

      You can disagree all you want, you're preaching to the choir here. I'm just pointing out what everyone else likes.

      As far as Gnome goes, I don't know if it's the most popular or not (citation needed),

      I don't think I need to dig up a citation to show that Gnome-based distros are far and away more popular than KDE-based ones. KDE is quite simply a second-class citizen in the Linux world.

      but I've heard plenty of pushback against it and the "screw you, we know what's best for you" mindset of the developers.

      Yeah, and what did they do? Instead of just adopting KDE, maybe coming up with some themes for it or something, they went and forked Gnome! So now we have a bunch of variants of Gnome, plus Unity of course (which isn't customizable either). Sure, MATE and Cinnamon are a little more customizable than Gnome3, but that's not saying much. Basically, they just went back to the way things were for Gnome2, which itself was the product of "usability testing" by the Gnome team and extremely minimalist compared to Gnome1, which was directly aimed at KDE1 in the late 90s. So the people who like Gnome2 and its offshoots like minimalism, they just didn't quite like the way it came out in Gnome3.

      Popularity doesn't always equal quality.

      I never said it did. But quality isn't very useful if no one uses it. I'm just bemoaning the fact that computer users really don't like configurability, as evidenced by their choices. You can even see it here when KDE comes up in a discussion; the mantra is always the same: "I don't want to deal with configuration, I want it set up for me out of the box." (despite the fact that KDE already comes with sane defaults out of the box).

    15. Re:Choice by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      But as I've explained elsewhere in this thread, there are distros which offer KDE, but people don't pick them. They even got mad at Gnome with Gnome3, and what did they do? They forked it into two different Gnome2-esque DEs, MATE and Cinnamon, and those picked up all the people pissed about Gnome3. Some others went to Xcfe. KDE didn't pick up any. These are Linux users here; it's not like they're just blindly using whatever distros shovel at them. They really are making a choice, and it isn't the one that's highly configurable. Any time KDE comes up in a Linux discussion, the refrain is the same: "I don't want to deal with configuration" (ignoring somehow the fact that KDE is in fact set up with sane defaults out of the box).

    16. Re:Choice by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >But as I've explained elsewhere in this thread, there are distros which offer KDE, but people don't pick them.

      All the major distros OFFER KDE (as well as many other desktops), but few made it the default. And the reason it wasn't made the default was not because it had so many options and configuration but because it came later and Gnome was already the historical choice people were familiar with (and in which most of the system-stuff was written).

      The distros that picked KDE as the default are more obscure- SuSe & Mandriva/Mageia are the only two that come to mind. The others, such as Redhat/RHEL/Fedora and many others, picked Gnome and stuck with it (including Ubuntu until they created the disaster called Unity).

      KDE shot themselves in the foot when they released KDE 4 and broke so much stuff and it took them YEARS to recover from that mess, which lowered their adoption further.

      (FYI- I use KDE as my home and laptop desktop, and ICEWM and XFCE at work).

    17. Re:Choice by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I don't think I need to dig up a citation to show that Gnome-based distros are far and away more popular than KDE-based ones.

      Well, I think you should, considering that's the claim you're making.

      And is the distro more popular because of Gnome, or is it more popular because of some other factor?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    18. Re:Choice by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      KDE shot themselves in the foot when they released KDE 4 and broke so much stuff and it took them YEARS to recover from that mess, which lowered their adoption further.

      Yes, but Gnome did the exact same thing with Gnome3, and the distros still feature it prominently.

      And as I said elsewhere, when Gnome pulled their Gnome3 shenanigans, Linux users (not being quite like regular sheeple) actually did start looking for alternatives, and they forked it twice with MATE and Cinnamon, so a bunch of them switched to those, or to Xcfe, but not to KDE. So it's not that KDE lacks the first-mover advantage.

    19. Re: Choice by jc42 · · Score: 1

      ... the options you complain about already exist.

      Well, I fired up a new Chrome window and went to maps.google.com. I then looked around for the options/settings/whatever controls. I didn't find them. I googled "google maps settings options controls" (without the quote), which gave 2.76 million hits. The first few looked encouraging, so I looked at them. They all failed to enlighten me on the topic. One did find "Search options", which has a rather sketchy set of checkable items dealing with google searches. There were several that showed me javascript that I could use to control some options, but attempts to learn how to enter the JS into my copy of google maps didn't turn up anything that worked.

      So how might we find the controls that will re-enable the missing city/road names that TFA is talking about? (Yes, I tried adding "city road names" to the list, but it didn't turn up much more than complaints about what's now missing. ;-)

      It seems that google has not only dialed such things down; it has also hidden the controls so that we don't have to worry our pretty little heads about such arcane things that we can't possibly understand.

      And yeah, I expect that if I had only guessed the right keywords, I'd have found exactly what I wanted. Too bad there's no way to ask google what are the right keywords to find something. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  14. The Excitement of Getting Lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now you can adventure out the unknown and mysterious cities of the US. What hidden secrets will you find? What horrors will you stumble upon? You know the roads, now discover the human habitats!

    1. Re:The Excitement of Getting Lost by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 2

      I like the 'Catholic' countries best. I haven't been religious for many a year but in some cities it's impossible to get lost because the Lord is guiding you home.

      Literally - Donostia has a yuuuuuuge statue of Jesus on the top of a hill. Stumble out of a bar at 4am and no matter how drunk you are, you can find your way home relative to the position of Jesus in the sky!

  15. OI não bloqueia meu celular de propósito by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vai namorar com o Ricardão, O Astronauta Comedor de Criancinha que Eu fico calmo pra esta e também pra minha outra vida.

    (odeio essa puta cara, pára de ficar lembrando ela que eu existo, eu vendo minha alma pra namorar uma preta)

  16. mobile... by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

    catering to the lowest common denominator, zombies.

    It's the way of all things in time.

    --
    -
  17. Meanwhile by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0

    ...Apple Maps, which was treated as a joke when it first came out, has gotten steadily better and is now markedly preferable to Google Maps.

    1. Re:Meanwhile by FrankHaynes · · Score: 1

      So when will Apple bring their maps to Android?

      --
      slashdot: A failed experiment.
  18. Research first, then open your mouth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This author is woefully uninformed. The towns and roads that display on the map are dynamic and driven by your search history. This guy can go back to his paper maps and leave the rest of us alone in the future.

  19. Other questions like this one by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1
    • "What's the deal with the Zika virus, anyway?"
    • "What exactly does cause dumpster fires?"
    • "Any good FAQs on autoerotic asphyxiation?"
    • "Is it true that I can fertilize my lawn with used motor oil?"
  20. In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I continue to be amazed at how high the "bandwidth" of a traditional, printed, paper highway map--such as those still provided by AAA, and frequently by the states themselves--compared to anything you can get electronically. Scrolling a six-inch screen is no substitute for a square meter of paper surface printed in high resolution... and with judicious human preselection of points of interest.

    For your typical 150-miles-to-a-specific-destination trips I continue to try to make do by printing out relevant Google maps, a small-scale one for the major highway routes to get there and a big one of the neighborhood. It never really works. The GPS and our car's NAV system will get you from point A to point B and show you in very good detail the local roads immediately surrounding your present position, but don't work very well for planning.

    Nor are electronic maps very good for sketching, highlighting, or carrying with you. And paper maps don't need to be recharged.

    1. Re:In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      Google was better for printing long ago, and is now better for being on the screen. Why are you printing? You have a desktop, and no other computing device?

      And paper maps don't need to be recharged.

      In the car, it's a real shame they don't have some power points so that you could plug in your personal electronics to the car's electrical system. Then you could use the phone/tablet/whatever without worrying about the battery and how much charging you need to do before/after the trip.

    2. Re:In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Why are you printing?

      Because humans are visual animals and process visual cues more quickly than verbal. It is much easier to have a printed map on 8.5" x 11" paper with your route highlighted than it is to try and concentrate on what some distant voice is telling you where to go.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re:In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      In my case, yes. I have a desktop PC and nothing else. I like it that way, life is already complicated enough without adding onto it. Thank goodness I kept my Rand McNally Atlas. You get the overview of a city and region on one page, and the following pages show the zoomed-in detailed views. The pages are laminated into some kind of waterproof plastic.

      --
      C|N>K
    4. Re:In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      So you aren't comparing printed maps to Google Maps, but printed maps to Google Navigation. Now that I understand your complaint, I can ignore it as irrelevant to the discussion.

    5. Re:In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my case, yes. I have a desktop PC and nothing else. I like it that way, life is already complicated enough without adding onto it. Thank goodness I kept my Rand McNally Atlas. You get the overview of a city and region on one page, and the following pages show the zoomed-in detailed views. The pages are laminated into some kind of waterproof plastic.

      Thank you. I thought I was the one on /. who didn't have a cell phone.
      We should start a /. club, for people who, I dunno, cut the cordless. (There has to be a better slogan that). Except I never had one.

      Which, leads me to my comment:
      Paper maps worked great for me. They still do. I still 15 year old Thomas Guides for LA and Orange county. I realize a lot of people never could read old paper maps. Was it a lack of training, or some hard wiring in the brain? I thought I noticed women were less adept at maps than men. It would be interesting to do some research into that and find out what it really happening. I would refine what I said, some women were very poor at reading maps. Is that true? a higher % that men? is it hard wired or less learning? (On the other hand, I think someone studied and found out that men were much much less likely to stop and ask directions when lost. This may no longer be true, some of those people may have died off).
      Reading a map is an exercise in abstract thinking. The concept that you are above looking down. One of the most basic skills that relates to maps is knowing direction.
      Again, this would be an interesting test. Start asking people where north, east, west of south is during a typical day. It would be interesting to see what % knows accurately, and a demographic comparison. I think that a percent of men know the accurate answer. Maybe.
      Older maps relied on a grid, overlaid the space, with a common reference point. North. Anyone remember Jackie Burkhardt's directions to her families cabin?
      Google maps have become near useless to me. Slow resource hogs. The threw out conventions that have been used or decades or maybe 100 years. It responds to mouse movements going over something and you have to wait until it's over to undo it (not limited to Google maps). Etc. Etc. it suck.
      Like smooth wombat below say, you can't rotate to align to true north.
      Sometimes throwing out old conventions does no harm. Sometimes it only messes with old farts, which for some in Google and /. seems to be fun, good, an maybe even moral.
      Sometimes though, well, lets hope the pilot on your next airplane flight is not confused because the FAA suddenly switched to Google Maps!

    6. Re:In many ways paper maps continue to be superior by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The problem is when you are following along and you go North-south. E-W pages are generally adjacent. N-S are generally separated by 10 or 20 pages, so you have to go flipping. When using those, it requires a dedicated navigator, not like phone which displays less information, but mainly what you need to follow a known (or marked) route.

  21. Military Maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anytime, anywhere.

    They are normally the best quality and the best with information density.

    You can even navigate on them today if the map is 50 years old. That is something you can't do with those "electronic" maps.

    Sure, some features will be outdated, but all around, given the level of detail, you not only will not be lost, but you will easly find out what changed and what not.

    Also, maps of areas like the Ganges River belts are always changing (every year there are some changes).

    Anyway...

  22. Google activity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google have been doing a lot of things that try to leverage CONTROL over you and your data.

    Restrictings in Youtube, and requiring people to login to Google and to have a gmail are some of the things they are pushing. Google maps is yet another set of data they are attempting to control. This happens as they get bigger (buying up more companies) and having less competition, which is exactly what happens under a fascist governmet.

    You need to identify what you don't have control over, and find inventive ways to get control over it. At the same time, identify things you DO have control over and find ways to keep it.

  23. Google maps still doesn't rotate by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To this day Google maps does not allow you to rotate whatever you're looking at so it is aligned N-S. For example, if you look at Manhattan, NY, its gridlines are neatly arrayed. However, the island itself does not point N-S. It is slightly askew.

    There is no way (that I am aware of) to rotate the map so the gridlines run E-W and N-S so when you print out a close up view everything lines up neatly on the page. Instead, the picture runs off diagonally.

    Outside of rotating, when you drag the line for your trip to a different route it regularly ends up doubling back on itself. When you try to drag the offending part to match where you want to go, it may double back again.

    Sure, if you fiddle with it enough you can eventually get it to have one continuous line but generally it's faster to clear the entire page and start over.

    Google maps has gone downhill over the years. What used to be an easy way to map or view where you want to go has been reduced to the typical shiny so prevalent on the web. Forget ease of use, so long as it's shiny.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Google maps still doesn't rotate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ctrl-drag, but only in satellite view.

      Not sure why they decided anyone would only ever need to rotate maps except when looking at the satellite view, but ... uh ... welcome to Web 3.0.

      Your other option is to open Google Maps on your phone, because you can freely rotate the map on your phone, but not your desktop. Dunno why they went that route.

    2. Re:Google maps still doesn't rotate by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      > There is no way (that I am aware of) to rotate the map so the gridlines run E-W and N-S so when you print out a close up view

      If that's REALLY important to you, you can download a jpeg file through the Google Maps API or capture a screen shot. Once you have an image file, you can rotate, crop, and print with Image Magick or any of a dozen similar programs.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    3. Re:Google maps still doesn't rotate by smooth+wombat · · Score: 0

      Right, and in typical technobabble fashion one has to jump through hoops to perform something so simple, once again showing why analog (a paper map) is better than a digital map.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    4. Re:Google maps still doesn't rotate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To this day Google maps does not allow you to rotate whatever you're looking at so it is aligned N-S. For example, if you look at Manhattan, NY, its gridlines are neatly arrayed. However, the island itself does not point N-S. It is slightly askew.

      There is no way (that I am aware of) to rotate the map so the gridlines run E-W and N-S so when you print out a close up view everything lines up neatly on the page. Instead, the picture runs off diagonally.

      You can rotate on the phone and tablet apps using a twist motion with two fingers.

    5. Re:Google maps still doesn't rotate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trivial on mobile version...

    6. Re:Google maps still doesn't rotate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Should be trivial on mobile version.

  24. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by FrankHaynes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google Maps seems to remove features with every successive release of Maps for Android.

    You used to be able to measure distances on the mobile Maps app, but not any more.

    You used to be able to plot a course or set waypoints on your desktop computer with its big screen where you could see a lot more, then pull up that route on your phone with the mobile app. Not any more.

    I used to be able to publish a link to my location plotted on an embedded map on my personal web site so my friends could track me on road trips. They took that away claiming that idiots were forgetting about their public links and violating their own privacy. So to protect people from their own stupidity, ostensibly, they removed that feature.

    I've forgotten all the features that they've removed just in the past couple of years.

    In recent versions Maps INSISTS that you turn on wifi in order to get an accurate plot of your location even with GPS already enabled. This tells me that they continue to map wifi access points as you move around to add to their database. It has nothing to do with improving the accuarcy of your location, that's BS.

    --
    slashdot: A failed experiment.
  25. different zoom level by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are comparing different zoom levels. Note how your old maps are more pixelated. Zoom in more and you get the same number of cities. I presume you have a different monitor with different resolution now. Possible that Google changed zoom level resolution but the information is still there.

  26. Jokes on Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Because Maps sucks on mobile now.

    Give us back the working version from around.. 2010.

  27. Re: In many ways paper maps continue to be superio by omnichad · · Score: 2

    You really shouldn't be using paper maps while driving anyway. Too much detail is too distracting.

    If your phone is telling you where to turn, it also has a screen showing a close-up and the orientation and distance to that turn. If you don't have a good place to mount that screen or a newer vehicle with Android Auto, you're missing something you can't get on paper.

  28. The appity app guy is out: by itsenrique · · Score: 2

    Here's my rendition: Modern mobile focused millennials use apps, not LUDDITE papyrus and squid ink boondoggles. Apps!

    1. Re:The appity app guy is out: by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      7/10, you only mentioned apps twice. :)

    2. Re:The appity app guy is out: by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      Modern map appers app apps for maps used by other appers, not LUDDITES and their non-apped maps. Apps! ... or something...

    3. Re:The appity app guy is out: by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Welcome Back! We missed you.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  29. It's not a paper map by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The original article seems to be evaluating Google Maps as if it were a paper map, which strikes me as incredibly myopic.

    If you're zoomed way out, you need to see just enough places labeled to get your bearings, no more. You might also be planning a trip or actively navigating, in which case you want to get an idea of the main routes, and what alternate routes exist. That's exactly what newer version of Google Maps provide. No more and no less.

    Anything else is clutter, and clutter makes the map harder to read. If you want road numbers, zoom in. It's easy and fast. If you can't find a smaller city or town, search for it. That's how you're supposed to use a digital map. If you need directions, there's a navigation feature. It provides turn-by-turn directions and even alternate routes.

    If Google Maps were designed like a paper map, it would be a terrible product. To evaluate any part of it as a static map is... I'm sorry, but it's idiotic. It's an interactive tool.

    The cited changes only further improve Google Maps for the digital age. Frankly, in hindsight, they're long-overdue changes. I wouldn't be surprised if the "old" Google Maps were designed that way only as a transitional design, to make those used to paper maps feel more comfortable. Now that most people (in the developed world, anyway) have had a smartphone for a while, Google was finally able to shed that legacy nonsense and give us a proper, digital-native mapping tool. It looks great to me.

    1. Re:It's not a paper map by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      You've got a good point, but rendering paper maps directly actually doesn't work as badly as one might think. Try this site www.topozone.com. Normally, I'd call it up to verify, but for complex reasons I'm stuck on my no-Javascript support but very fast browser for a few hours.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  30. Not task oriented if it sucks for task! by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Showing more roads would possibly be more task oriented IF YOU KNEW WHAT THE ROADS WERE.

    If a map shows you to turn on a street, but does not provide a table for that street (has happened to me in Waze before) that SUCKS for the task at hand.

    I would argue though that knowing what cities are around you is as much a part of the "task" of driving as knowing the roads.

    It seems liker there should be some zoom level or perhaps rate of travel where precedence for roads vs. cities display would alter...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not task oriented if it sucks for task! by hey! · · Score: 1

      If the UI doesn't suit the task, it's a bad UI. There'd be nothing unusual in that, that's for sure. I'm just saying that you can't criticize a UI for not being like a paper artifact; you can only criticize them for not supporting the task adequately.

      Of course understanding how people use paper artifacts is an important first step in automating something that heretofore has only been done manually, something I've done frequently in my career but I suspect is becoming much less common these days.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Not task oriented if it sucks for task! by Rei · · Score: 1

      If use-cases vary, then they should have the product designed with selectable modes for the different use cases. And the ability to remember a user's selection.

      --
      "I know you have questions." "That would be why I just asked them."
  31. They had to stop violating patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take a look at the patent and monipoly abuse settlement with Skyhook Wireless, and wonder which patents they had to stop violating.

                https://www.bostonglobe.com/bu...

  32. Google maps sucks badly, lalely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some smart ass added blue streets labels, same color as the path, you need to stop the car to actually see something. Also you cannot remove traffic colors and other disturbing things around the path. The mobile version is just autistic.

  33. retarded! by bbelt16ag · · Score: 1

    what a retard! you navigate by maps not cities who gives a crap if you know twenty cities in the area, i need road a1a i4 408 etc so i know where i need to go.

    --
    NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
  34. My Favorite by sycodon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Four point text on some street names.

    So you zoom and and they shrink all the text back to its original four point font.

    Google is supposed to have a lot of smart people.

    Maybe they are all on a 5 year sabbatical.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:My Favorite by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Four point text on some street names.

      So you zoom and and they shrink all the text back to its original four point font.

      This. And it's been this idiotic for quite some time now. I mean seriously, how hard is it to detect the threshold of where you're zooming in for more streets and/or detail, and when you're just trying to f'ing read the goddam names?

    2. Re:My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I always love how you have to pan and zoom around to get the some of the major street names to show up. Even if the direction path actually takes you onto a street, sometimes it won't have a label but some tiny street off to the side with inexplicably have a label.

    3. Re:My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Google is now kind of Microsoft in Balmer's age: a company imploding under its own birocracy and self sufficiency. Or like Samsung two years ago when millions of users were telling them "dudes, your phones are ugly like hell" and they were deaf.
      There is no hope in the years to come until someone else takes over.

      Maps. I found out that Here and TomTom for Android are pretty goog alternatives for Europe. The second one not free.
      Waze has pretty much the same issues as Maps, using same maps.

      What is important, beside updated maps, is a clean navigation, not gadgets overlay. For example things like "jonction view" or "lane assist" on MOST junctions, even if you wont turn, make the difference. This way you cannot miss the lane when you have 5 choices ahead, very similar.

    4. Re:My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading between the lines in the article, the smart people are just working on a higher level than you realize. They are literally doing that on purpose to make you more dependent on following the visual aspect, relying on your phone. You need to be looking at it at all times, not just using it like an old-fashioned map supported by your own knowledge.

      I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future, road names are completely removed, and the map just shows your immediate location with nearby roads branching off (and quickly fading out).

      Of course, they'll also show you all the McDonald's nearby to use as landmarks.

    5. Re:My Favorite by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's because all the UX experience people working on Google Maps are 20ish and can easily read small print. They have made the amazing discovery that if you make text smaller, you can fit more of it on a small screen. This is more efficient, and I'm sure whoever came up with this got highly praised.

      My beef is that you can't even see some street names, no matter how you zoom in or out. They just won't appear, even if you're standing on them. This makes it quite frustrating trying to walk around in an unfamiliar city. Once again, the UX experience people I'm sure have weighed in and said you're supposed to input your destination and just follow the directions, not worry about which silly street you're on.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:My Favorite by asvravi · · Score: 1

      No, they were all replaced by AI. It's the next big thing after computers. Get over it.

    7. Re:My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Average age of app developers selects for 20 somethings who still have perfect eyesight and a complete inability to focus on anything beyond their own mirror.

    8. Re:My Favorite by dfm3 · · Score: 2

      Four point text on some street names.

      Grey streets on Light grey city polygons.

      Terrain view with grey everything.

      Elevation contour lines that only appear at certain zoom levels, then disappear again.

      Satellite view that looks like a watercolor painting wrapped in plastic.

      The inability to zoom in on, say, a shopping center and actually see POI for every business mapped there rather than just an arbitrarily selected sampling.

      Creeks that show up much darker than roads, so in some areas all you see on the map are creeks.

      ...and that's just a few of my gripes with the map display. Don't even get me started on the user interface or the issues with Map Maker.

    9. Re:My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It varies between regions how useful they are, but take a serious look at both openStreetMaps and Nokia Here maps: Their rendering models sometimes work better for me.

    10. Re: My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Can't star/unstar locations without data connection since 6.x.

      Still no option to enable zoom buttons, or a zoom slider a la the browser-version.

      Offline has taken 2 steps forward after taking 3 back, but still operates on a "draw a box around the area to save" and not a "choose the city/state/province/country to download from a check-box list" model.

    11. Re:My Favorite by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Google Maps is not all that useful for trip planning.
      For example The microsoft maps and streets or whatever it was called allowed you to put in the size of your tank and the milage you got and the program would plan gas stops. You also told it how long you wanted to drive and suggested hotels.
      I wish Google maps had a feature that said I want to drive from x to y, I want to stop for lunch around noon but not later than 1:00PM, I want to stop for dinner at 5:30-7:00PM and I want to stop for the night at this hotel chain between 8 and 9 PM.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    12. Re:My Favorite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many perfectly acceptable webpages must be ruined before we learn to keep UX experts the hell away from designing anything more advanced than a take away pizza menu?

    13. Re: My Favorite by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      Just like real driving! In many cities there are Street name signs for all the side streets, but the 6-laner your cruising down is completely anonymous.

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
    14. Re:My Favorite by jc42 · · Score: 1

      They have made the amazing discovery that if you make text smaller, you can fit more of it on a small screen. This is more efficient, and I'm sure whoever came up with this got highly praised.

      If that's true, then how do you explain the way they've cut way back on the number of street and town names on their maps? You'd expect they'd use the small text size to enable labelling of more things, not fewer.

      Methinks it's just a classical case of Dumbing Down, which seems to happen to most successful companies as their management shifts into the usual "sell to the maximum number of people, especially the half of the population who can't read" mode.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  35. Trust Google by sycodon · · Score: 2
    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  36. Readability? by saccade.com · · Score: 1

    The critic reduces his cred by publishing his critique in a tiny, thin, illegible font.

  37. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is like you are describing socialism and communism. To fit everyone, chop it down to the lowest common denominator.

  38. How good are maps? by Gussington · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I just came to say how awesome maps are. Not Google Maps, that is becoming more and more shit by day, but maps in general. Can you even imagine the old days when you couldn't get an accurate map anywhere? Imagine how hard that would've been?
    I travel a fair bit, and my first stop is always to grab a free local tourist map, it makes such a huge difference once you have even a high level layout of the land.
    Go maps!

    1. Re:How good are maps? by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      Cartography FTW!

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    2. Re:How good are maps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a cartographer- thank you! *sniff

  39. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You used to be able to plot a course or set waypoints on your desktop computer with its big screen where you could see a lot more, then pull up that route on your phone with the mobile app. Not any more.

    On the plus side, on mobile you can now easily search for things on your route and add them as waypoints, where you couldn't before, which is in many cases more useful.

  40. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Blame Google - they now include how mobile friendly a website is in the ranking algorithm, so everyone is throwing desktop users under the proverbial bus to make Google's algorithms happy.

  41. Paper maps and a Dedicated GPS by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

    The paper maps are used to get a general lay of the land and to determine what the route should be in case the GPS or Google Maps has erroneous information, AKA trying to route you over a summer mountain road in the dead of winter. Dedicated GPS because it only requires power work, if I am out exploring and intend to use the GPS only to get home or back to the hotel (great fun way to explore new areas), I don't need to have a data connection of remember to download maps before beginning my adventure and the dedicated GPS tends to have a screen that is more readable in the sunlight.

  42. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to be able to publish a link to my location plotted on an embedded map on my personal web site so my friends could track me on road trips. They took that away claiming that idiots were forgetting about their public links and violating their own privacy.

    - I think these guys let you do it, not 100% sure.

  43. Why is Google Maps so bloated? by kheldan · · Score: 1

    Even it's 'lite' mode is so bloated that you sit there for at least 10 seconds, maybe longer, waiting for it to finish doing everything it needs to do before it even lets you look anything up.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  44. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "Tracking and spying must be turned on to use this software" dialogs ended my usage of Google maps at Android too. Few years ago I bought a Nexus phone from Google in a false belief that I could use Google applications on it for free. But no, in order to use them, I would need to bend over and give access to all my data to them. If I wanted to do so, I had bought a Apple or Win10.

  45. Google maps, where to begin? by AbRASiON · · Score: 5, Informative

    Good lord help me, Google god damned maps!
    I'll try my best to keep it short and sweet:

    The DUMBEST thing those idiots have done is remove the 50/50 split from the street view option. It's without a doubt, the most moronic @#$%ing thing they've done. It's incredibly frustrating.

    Luckily I have a screenshot of what I'm talking about.
    http://chattypics.com/files/5050split_sueprsqg9z.jpg

    You used to be able to do a 50/50 split, one of what you're looking at and 2 of where you "are" on the map what direction you are "facing". Any idiot with basic N.E.S.W directional skills, found this incredibly useful.
    We can still use street view and find what the building looks like that we're after, but it's much harder to identify where on the map it is, what direction it's facing, what the number is. We can do it, definitely, it's still down the bottom in the corner, VERY small - but the old system was incredibly easy to navigate in a combo street / maps view. I can't even put into words properly just how much superior the old version was, vastly is a big understatement.

    Perhaps you guys are sick of me but I'm personally getting frankly, fucking sick of typing shit up like this time and time again about applications, phones, websites, because idiots feel compelled to change things, not for the sake of improvement, but for the sake of change.

    It's times like this I WISH slashdot had a much larger audience, I WANT some piece of shit at Google to see this post and understand just how badly they fucked up. Yes, they did, fuck up, I'm sorry but there's no other way to put it.

    Tired of these changes, tired of things becoming worse for the sake of it.
    Google maps is literally an inferior product to what it was many YEARS ago.

    P.S Don't bother going back through the feedback system to these wallies, they have no idea. It's as bad as sending feedback to the Government at this point

    - Frustrated.

    1. Re:Google maps, where to begin? by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The DUMBEST thing those idiots have done is remove the 50/50 split from the street view option. It's without a doubt, the most moronic @#$%ing thing they've done. It's incredibly frustrating.

      Perhaps you guys are sick of me but I'm personally getting frankly, fucking sick of typing shit up like this time and time again about applications, phones, websites, because idiots feel compelled to change things, not for the sake of improvement, but for the sake of change.

      Yes. Yes. Yes.

      Google Maps is my resource of last resort when finding a route, or even a simple business location. For any given business or location, no matter how specific you are about its name or location, Google Maps will screw up their hours, phone number, address, or something else.

      They really need a disclaimer for users of the service.

      They also need to STOP appealing to users of the service to 'update' information for them. I don't work for you.

    2. Re:Google maps, where to begin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not a massive Google Maps user but there have been improvements too. It's a pity they undo them by employing an army of frat liberal arts majors.

  46. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Little_Professor · · Score: 1

    You can still measure distances on the mobile Maps app (at least, on Android) https://support.google.com/map...

  47. Oh goddammit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whats up with the font on that webpage? it nigh unreadable.

  48. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Printing maps has been ruined too...

  49. WTF maps. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are you all that retarded. What kind of trips are you taking where you can't just glance at a google map and then drive there?

    a handful of distances and turns? Are your minds that rotted away that you can't remember a few numbers and names or associations ?

  50. they're right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mon 5/2/16 8:34 am. I think the balance is right; all you have to do is zoom in and all the old cities appear. So what?

  51. Wait, people still use Google Maps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, I had no idea. I thought Google's attempt at mapping software had been surpassed long ago by actual online maps. Google maps is STILL missing about 60 miles worth of roads in my area. OSM has all of them.

  52. It's just all around frustrating to use by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 1

    Loads up slowly and zooming or moving around is sluggish. Likely because there's too much fucking data in the background. I've been mulling a replacement for some time but the integration with my phone is too clutch at the moment.

    Worst part is searching around. Since Google knows my IP, they should be able to figure out where I am and if I'm looking at cities I don't live in, they should be zoomed out further by default. Phoenix comes out fine as I can see the metro area. Chicago and Atlanta are not. It's gotten better than it has historically. But when I search for specific locations in my area, it tends to give me a really close view. Odds are if I'm looking for it, I want to know how to get there - not just exactly where it is.

  53. Look who's talking by ryanmc1 · · Score: 2

    Sorry, This guy has no room to complain. The text on his website, not google, is horrible. When I first opened his blog I thought my browser zoom was off, but after checking I realized his font of choice was a bad one.

  54. Re: This minimization approach is everywhere now t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maps on desktop is a nigh-unusable, confusing mess of a UI, and SLOW to boot. I mean, it takes a computer that can run the latest games at full quality, and makes the browser stutter like crazy.

  55. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    Why do you think Google is? A charity? Do you really think Google gives things away expecting nothing in return?
    And unlike Apple (who sells hardware) and Win10 (which is paid for), your data and ads is the only reason why Google gives you Android.

    As for Nexus devices, Google makes very little profit from the sales. It is not what they are for. They are reference devices, it is a way for Google to tell the world "this is how an Android device should be". And obviously, they don't want to leave out the data collection part, their real money maker, from their reference.

  56. The new format: FAIL by whitroth · · Score: 1

    The new, as opposed to the classic format, really sucks dead roaches. Zoom out, to get the area? Some of the time, what you're looking for is no longer marked. Click on the x, rather than , to get that annoying and overlarge Helpful Block in the upper left? You've lost what you were looking for.

    And it keeps trying So Hard to be Helpful, that you constantly trip over it, 'cause it's in your way.

    I won't begin to start on how they've ruined google search, apparently to please advertisers, rather than users.

                            mark

  57. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by prezkennedy.org · · Score: 1

    If it's practically an easter egg to do it, then it probably needs to be redesigned.

    --
    It started back in Team Fortress Classic
  58. Re:This minimization approach is everywhere now to by blueguitarbob · · Score: 1

    They removed the -/+ zoom buttons a while ago. I used to be able to zoom with one hand, now I have to use two-finger tap to zoom out. I can't do that while holding the phone, so I have to put it on my knee while tapping the phone. Great UI move.

  59. test reply, please ignore by Keybounce · · Score: 1

    Slashdot seems to want a lot of domains whitelisted in noscript to reply, so this is just a test since my last reply was eaten.

    1. Re:test reply, please ignore by Keybounce · · Score: 1

      Ok, so it seems that stacksocial.com is the "must be permitted" site. Carry on.

  60. Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MARTY!!!!

  61. as long as we're having this debate... by jafac · · Score: 2

    Just want to say, reading a lot of good points from both sides of the argument in this discussion.

    1) Don't like WAZE; don't need advertisements, or gamification. I just want directions and traffic info. Google usually does that just fine. WAZE sucks my battery dry even when I'm not using it.
    2) Google maps UX is pretty stupid, most of the time. Used to be pretty obvious and functional, but now, with each new "upgrade", I end up doing a fair amount of clicking around to try to figure out what widgets do, and try to locate functionality that's been (apparently) deprecated. It is very frustrating and annoying, but much less so than Apple maps. The bar is low.

    3) A long time ago, I used to deliver pizza. I did that job for about 4 years. I can imagine that google maps can work far better than paper in some situations. But a paper map does something that you don't really ever get into when you're driving in an area frequently, over a period of time. Google doesn't let you LEARN the area. It keeps you on the main/shortest route, which is not always the best route. And you end up relying on Google to get you around. If your signal goes, or your battery goes, or for what other reason, it's not working, then you are fucked, because you don't remember the area. If you use a paper map to view the whole area, and find your route, then you actually begin to LEARN the layout. The layout of an area is important. You learn where there are rail lines, and creeks or rivers, or freeway underpasses, which are HUGE bottlenecks, and when you're improvising or navigating on the fly, you need to have that knowledge in your head, not on your phone. There are also tiny details that become VERY important; that don't show up on electronic maps. No-left-turn signs, center-dividers. When you're on a busy urban or suburban street, and you pull out somewhere, and find you can't go the direction you want, you can sometimes get fucked into having to travel several blocks in order to get turned around again. This can set you back 10, 15, 20 minutes, depending on the traffic and situation. Google does that to me CONSTANTLY; but when you LEARN an area, you know these details in your head, and you can avoid those situations. You'll still need your paper map from time to time, but you're not going to have to refer to it constantly, as you would with a GPS/online map. The other skill you miss out on, is self-location or orienteering. The phone does that for you. (unless there's a technical problem). But the skill for figuring that out by reckoning, visual landmark checks, etc - goes away if you do not use it. That's also very important for on-the-fly navigation. With an electronic device, you can end up with imperfect information, and lag, which will put you a few hundred feet away, which is another situation where you can miss an important turn, and end up having to backtrack or re-route (which, fortunately, google does for you).

    There is NO substitute for having an intimate knowledge of an area's quirks and foibles, which are not available even at the most detailed level for electronic maps.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  62. What About Satellite View? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about the disaster that is satellite view. It use to be high resolution images of most places. Now, it looks like someone painted all of them with shitty water colors. The resolution has been massively reduced by what I presume to be AI interpretations. It's pure shit. Literally Bing maps are better.

  63. Vectorization and Personalization (relaunch 2013) by nkuehn · · Score: 1

    my god, let's get back to what the _software_ aspect of the essay is.
    Google relaunched maps in 2013 with two massive changes:
    1. switch from pre-renderd tiles to vector-based client-side rendering (good for native maps app and network traffic)
    2. heavy personalization ( watch this intro video from Google in 2013 to see the idea in extreme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... )

    So what did O'Beirne see and post? No, he did not see the place names and point of interest marks you will probably see at the same zoom level (esp. in your local area) - he posted a screenshot with the city names the big google correlation machine thinks is relevant to him. This is both good and bad imho. We're even deeper in our bubble and don't even see unwanted city areas on the maps (bad). But when we quickly want to find something relevant, it's great (assuming the relevance works).
    Concerning the map design: I agree, the manually / traditionally done tiles had more semantic and cultural context and did in fact look more balanced and structured.
    But they did not have any notion of intermediate Zoom levels, which is crucial on smaller screens. And they had a very ugly way to incrementally render on slow connections. If O'Beirne posted Videos instead of images the impression would have been different.

    Overall I agree with his findings as long as you see Google Maps as a static map image (to print out). Which it isn't. Even if you see it, I do not agree with one of his findings: Streets that do not connect named places. The actual structure of cities and their wider surroundings did in fact change towards being form- and shapeless continuums of houses and streets. Many areas simply do not have structural centers any more that could be named, but are very relevant to the people living or working there. In addition, new streets are built to _not_ touch city centers but to avoid traffic there. The traditional map layout pattern of lines connecting dots (cities) does not represent the current metropolitan structures any more (and his screenshots were all metropolitan). Does anybody know good resources on the topic?

  64. Apple Maps guy has an issue with Google Maps, yawn by misaltas · · Score: 1
    • o It's silly to compare a smartphone displayed web map with a paper one. Totally different design, purpose, resolution, and interactive use.
    • o It's sillier to compare a scaled geographic map with a non-scaled schematic like a subway map.

    To Google, search tools for pushing ads at you is their only hammer, and Google Maps is yet another nail, no more no less.

    Another example:
    A. If you already know where Newark is relative to NYC when zoomed out, seeing road lines is more important to forcing a cluttering label on there just cuz you happen to know it's the largest city in NJ. (And yes, sometimes clutter *is* clutter.) When you start pinch-zooming directly toward it, then you'll see it.
    B. But if you don't already know where Newark is relative to NYC and you opened the app to find your way there, you're going to search for it, find it, and get moving.
    C. And in both cases, you're not going to see a label for it until your use of the app suggests you need it.
    D. And once you search or pinch your way to Newark if you're lucky you'll get ads for LoJack for your car and YouTube videos for treating GSW's, y'know, Newark stuff.

  65. It's not the same as a 60 year old road atlas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Task based (someone mentioned this) is correct. Tasks are a sweet spot for Google's love of user-centered design and machine learning. It's not perfect, they are missing some stuff but it's moving in the right direction. You can't just reproduce a road map from the 1950's, add pan and zoom and call it a day. You design for the device (hint: mobile) and the tasks are used MOST. Do you really think Google doesn't keep track? People don't use Google Maps the same way as a 20in folded road map or a school atlas. If you wonder what tasks are they are designing for just look at the UI of the App. It's dominated by a big search bar and a HUGE "get directions" button. That's what people do and that's what it's designed for. Getting rid of the extra noise means it's glanceable in the car, you can see search results or to add stuff based on interaction (like traffic, alternative routes, etc.) and you don't have to waste time and bandwidth on loading all the extra crap. All gold in my book.

  66. And this - showing road numbers instead of names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi -

    Here's another Google map thing that is kind of dumb - when I use it for northern Michigan, it sometimes displays the county road numbers, like 660, 655, etc, instead of the names of the roads that everyone uses like "Long Lake Road" "Airport Road" etc.

    Tom from Traverse City