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Homeland Security Cuts Causing Extreme Delays And Missed Flights (chicagotribune.com)

An anonymous reader writes: The Chicago Tribune reports on "a growing backlash over extremely long airport security lines," which the Transportation Security Administration is blaming on a loss of 4,622 screeners. "In the past three years, the TSA and Congress cut the number of front-line screeners by 4,622 -- or about 10% -- on expectations that an expedited screening program called PreCheck would speed up the lines. However, not enough people enrolled for TSA to realize the anticipated efficiencies."

Passengers in security lines waited one hour and 45 minutes at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, with other airports reporting wait times of 90 minutes, and crowded lines "snaking up and down escalators, or through food courts, and into terminal lobbies." Some flights have even delayed their take-offs just to wait for more of their passengers to clear security. (One Dallas-Fort Worth flight waited 13 minutes, resulting in 23 more passengers who made it onboard -- while another 29 passengers still had to be rescheduled for later flights.) "We encourage people to have the appropriate expectations when they arrive at airports,â said Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson on Friday, saying the screenings were necessary to ensure passenger safety. "Contemplate increased wait times as you travel."

Johnson also said the TSA would increase the use of overtime, hire 768 new officers as soon as mid-June, and use more threat-sniffing dogs. Meanwhile, a TSA computer glitch caused 3,000 pieces of luggage to miss their flight in Phoenix, prompting city officials to investigate replacing the TSA with a private security contractor.

203 of 302 comments (clear)

  1. Appropriate expectations? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I expect that the children playing security theater in the airport will grow up and go away. Maybe find something useful or meaningful to do with their time. Is that not an "appropriate expectation"?

  2. The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Don't fly.

    This isn't trolling - it's truth. If enough people simply stop flying, it will change. Not only the airlines but mega corporations like Disney will have their way.

    Last time I flew was - holy cannoli - 2002. I'm a little shocked at that because I really didn't think about it until I typed it. I still go on vacations, and even though I love the act of flying, Idon't miss the modern flying experience very much.

    And it's pretty simple. If you still fly when you don't absolutely have to - you are okay with all of this.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:The cure by Snotnose · · Score: 3, Informative

      Same here, haven't flown since I was given the choice of being sexually molested or having naked pictures taken of me.

      I enjoy driving, so now I spend a couple days driving to my destination. I pick the wife up at the airport, we do our thing, take her back to a different airport, she flys home and I drive.

    2. Re:The cure by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you still fly when you don't absolutely have to - you are okay with all of this.

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      It's easy to say "don't fly" -- for someone who doesn't fly anyway.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:The cure by Moof123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Flying has become miserable on so many fronts. I minimize it, and dread it when it cannot be avoided.

    4. Re: The cure by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 1

      My family lives 1,100 miles away. My wife's family lives 2,500 miles away. Not flying cuts, on average, two days off any visit to my own family. For my wife's family, it's completely impractical to drive. For me (and others with distant family,) that's well worth the (generally overblown) drawbacks of air travel and security theater.

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    5. Re:The cure by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      This is pretty much what I do as well, and for the same reason.

      When we went to Hawaii we flew because there basically is no other way to get there. But, otherwise, nowadays for vacations we either drive or take Amtrak. If the TSA ever turns Amtrak into another instance of security theater run amok, then we'll just drive everywhere.

      There are worse ways to spend your time than in a car, seeing the vast expanses of America.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    6. Re:The cure by guises · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well obviously what we need to do is get rid of the TSA, and I don't think that asking people to boycott flying is going to work. It didn't work when the TSA was first introduced and the lines jumped back then, it didn't work when they introduced the stripscanners (even though the early ones were possibly carcinogenic), didn't work with "enhanced patdown", etc. The best we seem to get with a boycott is the TSA makes things much worse, people complain and business slows a little, the TSA partially rolls back the change, and everyone starts flying again. Ignoring the fact that the change was only partially rolled back, so things keep getting worse incrementally.

      But demanding that congress gets rid of the TSA and just goes back to metal detectors isn't going to work either, it's too much backpedaling. It would mean admitting a mistake. So I was thinking maybe a market solution would be the right approach: get a few startups offering low security flights, operating from a low security terminal at the airport. If they get a lot of business (and they will) it could drive a larger change as the bigger airlines adopt similar practices for some of their flights.

    7. Re:The cure by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a relative who lives 1,700 miles away and I'm driving to see them this week.

      While not the same situation as you, I have made adjustments so I don't have to fly.

      Being considered a criminal when I have done nothing wrong doesn't sit well. All this has done is give a would-be terrorist a ready, easily accessible and indefensible juicy target. If the whole point of this setup was to make people safe it has failed miserably.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    8. Re:The cure by Ichijo · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      Is it necessary to live 6,000 miles away? Or do you live 6,000 miles away because it has been so easy to visit them? Would you move closer if it were no longer so easy to visit?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    9. Re:The cure by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      Visiting relatives is overrated. Skype ftw. And if they don't like it then they can come to me.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    10. Re:The cure by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      At least we aren't giving you advice from outside the US. Domestic flights outside the US have almost no security. No ID checks of any kind. Though there's a security line, so you can feel secure, if you really want to.

    11. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1, Informative

      Don't fly. This isn't trolling - it's truth. If enough people simply stop flying, it will change.

      That's great, but the last time I tried to drive to SE Asia it didn't work out.

      Also, if you want to go across the country for business or vacation, driving simply isn't practical. For example, if you have a 2-week vacation and you spend 3 days driving out and 3 days driving back...you're left with 8 days out of your 2-week vacation. Yippee.

      Plus you'll be wrecked by the time you get there (take a day to recuperate) and wrecked by the time you get back (another day to recuperate). Now you're down to six days out of your 2-week vacation.

      Sometimes flying is the only practical way to go.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    12. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      It's easy to say "don't fly" -- for someone who doesn't fly anyway.

      Exactly. I have family in SE Asia. Driving there isn't an option.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    13. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I have a relative who lives 1,700 miles away and I'm driving to see them this week.

      Great, I'll just tell all my relatives in SE Asia to move here so I don't have to fly. That's totally practical, I'll call them right now and tell them to start packing.

      Oh wait, that would make them immigrants and President Trump won't like that, will he?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    14. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      Is it necessary to live 6,000 miles away? Or do you live 6,000 miles away because it has been so easy to visit them? Would you move closer if it were no longer so easy to visit?

      1) Yes, it is necessary.

      2) Don't be a fucking idiot, this is why they invented airplanes.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    15. Re:The cure by ebonum · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Skipping the TSA isn't as hard as you think.
      (If you can buy and M3, you have a choice)

    16. Re:The cure by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Wow. 1700 miles is about 28 hours of driving, not excluding stops. And presumably you are doing it twice (there and back) in one week. That's impressive, and makes me realize just how awful air travel in the US must be.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    17. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      If you still fly when you don't absolutely have to - you are okay with all of this.

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      If they were that important, why did you move 6000 miles away?

      It's easy to say "don't fly" -- for someone who doesn't fly anyway.

      I also said that you are willing to put up with exatly whatever they wish to do. You might bitvh about it, but everyone bitches. You at base level accept it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    18. Re:The cure by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The furthest you can drive in the US is about 3,500 miles, so the GP's relatives must live outside it. I'm in the same boat, I couldn't move closer if I wanted to due to immigration laws and the difficulty of getting a good job in that country.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have a relative who lives 1,700 miles away and I'm driving to see them this week.

      While not the same situation as you, I have made adjustments so I don't have to fly.

      It's not too difficult on trips of that length. drive a similar distance a few times a year. I just get up really early, drive through the night and arrive not exactly fresh, but I have my own vehicle, not a rental, and can enjoy music on the way down. I don't miss the couple hour wait at each stop, the groping, waiting on the tarmac before and after the flight, the wait at the luggage merry go round, the wait at the rental car place.

      And if I missed my flight because of the delay I really don't miss the hassle of cancelling the hotel.

      All in all, on trips from say the northeast to the south, you don't save a huge amount of time by flying. Yes, the in-air part is relatively short, but the rest of it makes for a huge delay.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    20. Re:The cure by Solandri · · Score: 1

      I see what you're doing. TSA cuts their staff by 10% resulting in long lines. If you can convince 10% of the people who fly not to, you yourself can fly without having to wait in those lines.

      Deviously clever!

    21. Re:The cure by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I used to drive 700 each way to visit my family rather than fly.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    22. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      It's easy to say "don't fly" -- for someone who doesn't fly anyway.

      Exactly. I have family in SE Asia. Driving there isn't an option.

      To visit or not is an option, however . At the risk of defusing my inadvertant shitstorm, is there some sort of cultural issue going on? I lived close to my immediate family. Worked out okay. My relatives that moved away were just people I spoke with on the phone occasionally.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    23. Re: The cure by dhawton · · Score: 1

      I live in Alaska, you can definitely drive further than 3500 miles to visit family in the US. Granted, I would have to cut through Canada.

    24. Re:The cure by Pulzar · · Score: 1

      That's impressive, and makes me realize just how awful air travel in the US must be.

      It really isn't. You're getting information from a guy who hasn't flown since 2002.

      Security is much worse at Heathrow than any American airport. They are extremely anal about every little thing, and damn slow, too.

      Americans have a 3 or 4 weekend when half the country is flying somewhere, and the spoke-and-hub setup the airlines use tends to crowd the crap out of major airports. Outside of those major airports, and outside of those 3-4 weekends, things are perfectly fine. You can also get pre-checked and get through even quicker.

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    25. Re:The cure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd rather the TSA cut the other 90%.

    26. Re:The cure by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      It's ~4,600 miles for me to reach my parent's house by car, ~3,700 by direct shot. Of course, about 2.4k of it is in Canada(going from Alaska to Florida).

      Why do I live so far from family? Military service sent me to Alaska, Mom developed a medical condition where she can't stand the cold, so my parents moved to Florida. Bam, we're living about as far from each other as possible while still both being in the USA and on the same continent.

      Wait am moment. Checks Hawaii. 4.6k miles. I could be in Hawaii and it'd still be the same distance.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    27. Re:The cure by Pulzar · · Score: 2

      If they were that important, why did you move 6000 miles away?

      Are you really that naive? You must've lived a very privileged life to not understand that tough choices have to be made frequently, including moving away from family that you love dearly.

      In the grand scheme of things, waiting in line at the airport security is really not that high on most people's list of deciding factors on where to live and work. It doesn't mean they "accept" it. World isn't such a neat black and white place.

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    28. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Flying has become miserable on so many fronts. I minimize it, and dread it when it cannot be avoided.

      Exactly. Let's go back in time to 1991. I was on a cross country flight from SeaTac to Pittsburgh. SeaTac often gets fogged in, and this one lasted a few hours longer than usual.

      The stewardesses were led by a woman who was an absolute sweetheart. She managed to keep things pretty light, no one was pissed off, and when we finally got in the air, they opened the bar. Free drinks for everyone. No one got drunk, but everyone was relaxed and pretty happy. During the flight I had to use the restroom, and the stewardesses told me to hang out and chat with them a bit. So I hung out with the ladies for a while. Never had such an interactive and enjoyable flight, including big hugs from the stewardesses when we disembarked.

      Does that or does that not sound batshit crazy as compared to today? Oops - sorry - it is today that is batshit crazy, when a mathematics professor was turned in to security when a woman saw him writing formulas in a notebook.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    29. Re: The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      My family lives 1,100 miles away. My wife's family lives 2,500 miles away. Not flying cuts, on average, two days off any visit to my own family. For my wife's family, it's completely impractical to drive. For me (and others with distant family,) that's well worth the (generally overblown) drawbacks of air travel and security theater.

      Good. This sort of thing doesn't bother some people as much as it does others.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    30. Re:The cure by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Did it ever occur to you that I moved 6000 miles away from my family before the insult that is today's airport "security"?

      Yes, I do accept it. The alternative is not visiting my family. The alternative is not going to my parents' funerals. The alternative is not being able to do my job.

      I accept it because the alternative is worse for me. Perhaps you are one of the 55% of Americans who don't have passports and live a parochial life, missing out on the many interesting things the world has to offer that are more than driving distance from your house. Perhaps you should open your eyes to the world.

      So, yes, I accept it. I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    31. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      There are worse ways to spend your time than in a car, seeing the vast expanses of America.

      It's a magnificently beautiful country, I get to spend some time with the wife without so many distractions, since we both have very different schedules, and you get to meet interesting people along the way.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    32. Re:The cure by sjames · · Score: 1

      You do realize moving closer would mean moving to a different country again, don't you?

    33. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I stopped flying 2007. All trips since then have been by car, though I am planning a train trip this summer.

      I plan to at some point take the Trans-Canada Train for a long vacation.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    34. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Also, if you want to go across the country for business or vacation, driving simply isn't practical.

      Is someone making you drive across the country? If yes, then by all means fly. Besides, I didn't say you weren't allowed to fly. Just a solution if the rules don't suit you. The rules do suit some people, and apparently you are one of them.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    35. Re:The cure by WhiplashII · · Score: 1

      But driving to Hawaii is a lot of fun anyway, even if it takes forever to get there...

      --
      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    36. Re:The cure by sir1963nz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most people I know who fly from NZ/Aus to Europe/UK to go through Asia/middle east to avoid the USA. They typically spend 3-7 days in Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai on the way to/from the UK etc buying up hotels nights, tourist attraction tickets, food, shopping etc etc etc. The US is already missing out on Billions of dollars in Tourism, and its only going to get worse. We have a trip coming up, but it will be our last to the USA, there is simply too much else to see in the world to be bothered with the aggravation. We were going to be coming for 8 weeks, but have reduced this to 3, 8 days of which are now a cruise in the Caribbean. Time has been allocated to Hong King, London and when we get back, off to Samoa for 10 days.

    37. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      If they were that important, why did you move 6000 miles away?

      Are you really that naive? You must've lived a very privileged life to not understand that tough choices have to be made frequently, including moving away from family that you love dearly.

      Privileged? Naive? Fuck . My family members that I loved dearly, I stayed near. Took care of them as they ran down to expire. Don't even preach to me about how much you love someone, but you cannot stay around them. Because you left them. You made your priority, and I made mine. Don't dare call me priveliged or naive, I am neither.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    38. Re:The cure by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Leave Friday morning (around 7 A.M.) and arrive at their location Sunday afternoon. Stay there until Thursday morning when I start my trip home. Did the same thing in October of last year.

      8 days total length of time and I will be stopping at a few sites on the way back.*

      It's not so much that air travel is awful, I have flown, it's that it's gotten to the point where the groping and proctology exams have made it unbearable, especially when I've committed no crime.

      * I'm returning on Saturday and will have two days to recover before I go back to work on Tuesday since Monday is a holiday in the U.S.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    39. Re:The cure by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      Will either you or they die if you don't visit them? No? Then it is not absolutely necessary, no matter how much you enjoy it.

    40. Re: The cure by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      "I would have to cut through Canada."

      And have the uplifting experience of dealing with US border Patrol clown show instead of the airport security clown show. The Canadian are border folks polite, competent, and quick. The US frequently are anything but.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    41. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Did it ever occur to you that I moved 6000 miles away from my family before the insult that is today's airport "security"?

      Yes, I do accept it. .

      That's really all you have to say. You accept it. I don't hold that against you, although it seems my comments enrage you and a few others. Now - I may have my opinions on people who move away form their families. Certainly all of my wife's and my siblings did. Really, none of them had to, but they did. My wife and I stuck around and took care of our parents. That is what we chose to do.

      I certainly had job offers out of state - none out of country due to my profession. But my family was more important. And when in later years as the parents were heading downhill, we took care of them.

      Perhaps you are one of the 55% of Americans who don't have passports and live a parochial life, missing out on the many interesting things the world has to offer that are more than driving distance from your house. Perhaps you should open your eyes to the world.

      Nope - I have a passport. For when I drive to Canada. Nice place, friendly people and some awesome scenery. Even Quebec where they laugh at me because I mix Spanish and French together. But I guess they figured the dumb Yankee was trying .

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    42. Re:The cure by sir1963nz · · Score: 1

      Where did he say he hated the USA ? Thats right, nowhere.

    43. Re:The cure by DaHat · · Score: 1

      From Wikipedia:

      Unit cost 182T Skylane USD$398,100 (2012)

      I dunno about you.. but 400k is a bit hard for many, even if you found an older one with a few issues for half the price, that is still a large amount of money for something you probably aren't going to use every weekend... and that aide from the storage and maintenance costs.

      I'm going to stick with driving the 1600-1800 miles from WA to MN and stop to see a few folks on the way with the wife & kid along for the ride.

    44. Re:The cure by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      "Sometimes flying is the only practical way to go"

      That's correct, although back before I decided that the whole horror show with airport security, seats that are too closely spaced for an average height male, and a complete inability to stick to published schedules really wasn't much fun I encountered more than one situation where crossing the US by air took just about as long as driving. The only positive thing I can say about flying today vs flying half a century ago is the airport food has improved immeasurably.

      Not too long ago my wife's employers ended up taking FOUR DAYS to fly from Taos, NM to Burlington, VT. ... and it would have taken longer if they hadn't opted to fly from NM to Manchester, NH, rent a car, and drive the last 200km ... and that wasn't even in Winter. Now that I think about if, my last flight -- about 12 years ago -- took three days because the plane the airline insisted I take left Burlington too late to make it's connection at JFK ... two days in a row. But at least I got to spend the time at home, not counting each and every acoustic panel in some airport's ceiling.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    45. Re:The cure by sir1963nz · · Score: 1

      Worst "lines" I have had were waiting to go out to/return from the Statue of Liberty Any popular ride at Disney/Universal Studios (can be hours) Heathrow I have found in general to be better than US airports for queues, however Heathrow often only gives out gate numbers 20 minutes before boarding and it can take you than long and more to walk to the gate, missed out flight because of mobility issues there once.

    46. Re:The cure by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Yes, you are a privlidged fuck. You were lucky- your life and your career allowed you to do that. Not everyone can. Sometimes the money you can make by moving to where jobs are is enough to make the difference between your family eating or not.

      Or sometimes you love someone but the better life for you is elsewhere. If they love you too they understand that and urge you to go. Congratulations for your luck at life that it wasn't the case for you, but understand that you are the exception, not the rule.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    47. Re:The cure by fnj · · Score: 2

      $995-$2461 for a Piper J3 Cub in 1938 to 1947 was one thing. The median income in 1940 was $956, so it was a big chunk of change. But still, that was only a little more than a single year of gross income, and taxes were pretty damn low[*] for people earning the median at that time.

      [What follows for 2012 is about as close to the present day as I could find information for]
      But $398,100 for a Cessna 182T in 2012 is another thing entirely. The median income in 2012 is $33,276. That is 12 FRIGGIN YEARS OF GROSS INCOME, and god knows, maybe around 20 years of net income.

      The base price for a 2016 BMW M3, hideously overpriced as it is, is $63,500. "If you can buy" a $63,500 car, and that's a damn big if, that HARDLY means you can therefore buy and maintain a $398,100 airplane.

      [*] The Federal income marginal tax rate in 1940 for anyone (single or married) earning $0-$4000 was 4%. I'm not sure what the personal exemption was. I do know it was $3000 at the outset in 1913.

    48. Re:The cure by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Last time I flew was - holy cannoli - 2002. I'm a little shocked at that because I really didn't think about it until I typed it.

      My wife and I stopped flying shortly after 9/11 and the resulting security theatre hassles. We've vacationed by driving cross-country with a travel trailer - visiting family a couple thousand miles away in a multi-week round trip.

      I think I've flown twice since we decided to stop: Once on business for an employer, once to attend my mother's funeral (too far to drive in the time available.)

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    49. Re:The cure by Jiro · · Score: 1

      You are confusing a private corporation and the government. Governments are immune to pressure from not buying. The government that imposes the TSA isn't going to care whether the airlines lose money, so has no reason to stop--and they're certainly not going to let anyone open a competing airline that skips the TSA, as would happen if you were boycotting a company over something that companies had control of.

    50. Re:The cure by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Is it necessary to have a cell phone? Or do you have one because it's so easy to take calls anywhere you happen to be? Would you have a landline if cell phones weren't available? For that matter, do you need a phone at all? Can't you just talk to them in person?

      I can see both sides of the argument, if you don't like what Facebook is doing to your data you could like not use it. On the other hand, you have this attitude that if you've first used it then anything goes no matter how expensive or inconvenient it'd be to do it some other way. For example, if I want to ride the bus here in Norway with cash instead of an electronic ticket - which is linked to an electronic payment with ID - I'll pay roughly double. They can blame the risk of robbery, theft, embezzlement and whatnot all they like but the practical result is that if you don't want to grossly overpay you ride "tracked". And I'll admit that I do, not because I particularly like it but because I've been boxed in. Oh yeah and car registration plates are automatically tracked on toll roads via photo cameras, if you think driving your own car was a better option. Really the only way you could move really anonymously is by bicycle or on foot, but hey if you got nothing to hide right? Nobody will stop you and ask "papers please", but that's only because they don't need to. They already know who you are, where you are and where you're going.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    51. Re:The cure by Mr.CRC · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The answer is to absolutely forbid ever absolving the airlines of liability for loss of life if they loose a plane due to negligence or letting on a bad guy.

      Establish a fairly simple standard set of security criteria. Let the airlines voluntarily submit to independent testing of their defenses. If they pass (with periodic re-inspection) then they get some bonus, like protection from *criminal* liability for an accident. This way, small private charters can forego the standard compliance without undo risk because they basically know their clients.

      Seriously, we aren't even trying to solve this. I haven't heard a new political idea about just about anything in decades.

    52. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You are confusing a private corporation and the government.

      This is 21st Century America. Corporations are the government. Or as close to it as practicality allows. You think that money isn't going to pass to politicians who will then do what the source of that money wants? Airlines and the tourist industry will make certain that legislation that they desire get passed.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    53. Re:The cure by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Or pay the $85 for the preflight check. (or $100 for the global approval).

      It's a bargain compared to taking an extra bag, etc.

      It's 6 hours minimum wage work in many cities.

      It's less than a month's cable tv bill.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    54. Re:The cure by antdude · · Score: 1

      I haven't flown since summer of 1993. I hate traveling and long commutes. I wished we had working stable t(rans/ele)porters to avoid these long waits. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    55. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      The rules do suit some people, and apparently you are one of them.

      No, the rules don't suit me, but there are no practical alternatives.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    56. Re:The cure by Greyfox · · Score: 1
      I've mostly been living a no-fly policy since the TSA was created, just because I don't care for the extra bullshit. But I broke down and flew to Phoenix from Denver a couple years ago and experienced surprisingly little bullshit along the way. Other than them using their scanners to look at your junk, it doesn't seem much worse than it was before. They did make me take my ninja boots off this time, and the whole point of wearing the ninja boots is that you can't hide anything in them. They're basically slightly more acceptable flip flops.

      I'm pretty sure those guys can smell fear (or maybe resentment) because I sailed through the checkpoint, even with being randomly selected for an explosives screen, while the guy I was travelling with took about 15 minutes longer. I think he got pulled for the anal probe or something. He was griping afterwards, "I went to Iraq to defend us against this shit!"

      As not-bad as it was, it's much more fun driving if I have the time. I'm getting older, but I still enjoy an endurance drive a couple times a year.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    57. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      At the risk of defusing my inadvertant shitstorm, is there some sort of cultural issue going on?

      You mean a cultural issue like wanting to see your family occasionally?

      -

      I lived close to my immediate family. Worked out okay.

      Well that's nice, I'm glad it worked out for you. But there are reasons I can't live close to my family, including work, friends, children, and other minor social things like my life being based in this country for 50 years. It's not a realistic option for me to be able to just pack up my shit and move 6000 miles just to be near them. But that doesn't mean I don't want to go visit them from time to time, and the only practical way to do that is to fly. I mean, that's why airplanes were invented, so people could use them to go places.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    58. Re:The cure by sjames · · Score: 1

      And you sound like the "I got mine, fuck you!" type we don't need on this planet ever.

    59. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      I am indeed saying that if you continue, you do not have a problem with whatever the airlines choose to do to you.

      Sorry, but that's just fucking stupid.

      YES, I most certainly DO have a problem with whatever the airlines choose to do to me, but as I've said repeatedly, I don't have any practical alternatives. You can't drive or take a train from the US to SE Asia. A boat could take a month or more. The only practical alternative is to fly.

      It's similar to having a serious heart problem where they have to operate or you'll die. Maybe you have a deep dislike of surgery, but are you going to stand on your principles and die rather than undergo surgery? I doubt it.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    60. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      You really are an ass, aren't you?

      He is, and not a terribly clever one at that.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    61. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Why did you move to a country that you appear to hate, away form family that is important to you?

      Where did I say I "hate the USA", and why would you assume I moved here? Both of those things are untrue.

      Let me spell it out for you: I do not hate the USA, and I did not move here. I was born about a mile or so from the White House and I've lived in the USA my whole life. But I do have family abroad in SE Asia, quite a few in fact.

      Fun Bonus Fact: for about 20 years I lived almost *exactly* 10 miles to the foot from the White House steps. Draw a circle with a radius of 10 miles from the steps at the White House's front door, follow that circle around, and at some point you'll just barely graze the driveway of my old home.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    62. Re:The cure by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Security is much worse at Heathrow than any American airport. They are extremely anal about every little thing, and damn slow, too"

      This is true. On our last departure from Heathrow (June 2014) we encountered four separate security rechecks inside Terminal 5 after the regular big one.

    63. Re:The cure by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Oh, they're definitely attempting to do exactly that

      With more duties comes more power, bigger budgets, and more bureaucracy.

    64. Re:The cure by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      You must not live in the US then, people driving like that was common for a long time. I know people from here in Ontario that would drive to central Florida and back on a weekend with 6 people in the vehicle. They'd go down and have breakfast and drive back. It was the price of cheap airfares that more or less dried it up. You know, like the cost to fly from Detroit to Tampa could be bought for under $125USD around 6 years ago.

      There's no way you could drive that distance for that price, including food, fuel and motels. I will say that depending on your car though, and time, you can make it cheap. I drove from SW-Ontario to northern Alberta via the US a few years ago for around $400. It took a week, cost me $225 in gas one way, the rest went for food/motels, even at that it was cheaper then flying(around $550 one way) or driving through Canada ~$900. 12 hour driving days though burn a lot out of you when you're not used to it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    65. Re:The cure by afxgrin · · Score: 1
    66. Re:The cure by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Your like those feminists who for whom "everything is sexist" I take it. Or are you just projecting your own hatred for America onto others?

    67. Re:The cure by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      So what happens when your family is one country and your wife's family is in another country on the other side of the planet? And neither can desires to move and governments wouldn't let them immigrate if they wanted to anyway.

    68. Re:The cure by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Yes, I think that your replies show the small-minded lack of vision and smugness from those who have never moved. Never experienced life in different cultures. Perhaps you see it as a noble sacrifice. It's certainly a sacrifice -- much less of a sacrifice that I make by accepting the abuse that the TSA hands out. My parents accepted that I moved to a different continent. They welcomed the fact that I could move thousands of miles away for what I hoped would be a better life. I wasn't the first in my family to move away. You know that the USA was founded by people (presumably your ancestors) who moved away from their family, with the expectation that they would probably never see them again, don't you? Now, I live in the situation that, due the to vagaries of US immigration law, I have children in two continents. So, to see one of my children, I accept that I need to suck it up when I fly and accept (but don't like) the abuse that the TSA hands out. Not everyone has the liberty of living close to their parents. I would have thought that, as someone who has given up many opportunities in life to live close to parents, you would understand that I would go through a little inconvenience in order to meet face-to-face with family.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    69. Re:The cure by guises · · Score: 1

      ... That sounds an awful lot like forcing a private party to take responsibility for policing. How do you feel about that when it comes to ISPs? The media companies have been trying to make the ISPs and others, Youtube, etc., responsible for anything illegal that their users do. How about a restaurant? Do you hold a restaurant liable if someone comes in and shoots the customers?

      Prior to the TSA the airports screened for weapons, it was a quick and easy metal detector thing. Not perfect, but good enough: it cut down on hijackings by a ton. This was before people considered terrorists who might not care about living. Now the cockpits are secured and there are air marshals, these are sufficient to deter further attempts to use airplanes as weapons. They would not be enough to stop a suicide bomber, but a few bomb-sniffing measures scattered around the airport are really as far as something like that should go. Planes are not the only place where suicide bombers are a threat, and I think (hope) that we have not reached the point where we're so paranoid that we're willing to put up with this crap everywhere on a day-to-day basis.

    70. Re: The cure by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      I fly through both quite regularly..

      You are absolutely wrong.

      Heathrow is a pit.. But it is one hell of a lot better than LAX.. And anyway. You can fly in to cdg and take the tunnel.. And yes. Even the French are better than most American airports.. And that saying something.

    71. Re:The cure by cyberzephyr · · Score: 1

      I have been through the same thing. It suck's but we just have to keep going with the rules.

      --
      I'm here for the experience, not the Hyperbole.
    72. Re:The cure by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I fly from Heathrow regularly and security isn't too bad at all. They got rid of most of the nude scanners and you can easily pick a line that avoids them. Wait times are quite low, maybe 5-10 minutes when it's busy. The only major annoyance is having to take your shoes off, but they don't always make you do that any more.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    73. Re:The cure by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Not really only about 5-6 days.

      what you don't own a water car?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    74. Re:The cure by BostonPilot · · Score: 1

      Don't buy, rent: http://eastcoastaeroclub.com/a...

      Realistically, there are problems trying to travel with private aircraft. The biggest one is weather. Private aircraft simply can't safely tackle the same weather an airliner can. So, they are viable, but your schedule needs to be flexible. And, it's much more expensive unless you have a group of people traveling together. And frankly, much as I hate to say it, private aircraft are much more dangerous than airlines. (but so is driving).

      For trips up to about 1,000 miles, driving isn't such a bad alternative, and it's going to get much better as more and more cars get Tesla style autopilot software.

      For a recent trip from Boston to Nashville I considered 3 modes of transportation:

      Southwest Airlines: Ended up costing about $450 round trip, about 8 hours each way all together
      Cessna 182: would have cost about $3,200, about 11 hours each way all together
      Driving: About $250 in fuel round trip, about 18 hours each way. Savings on rental car would have made the trip almost free, but would have cost me an extra day traveling.

      I agree with the people who feel the TSA should be dismantled. If you told me 30 years ago that we would have our civil liberties trashed by a bunch of brown shirts that would be viewing our naked bodies, delaying our travel, at huge expense, and with little to no increase in security I would have laughed at you. I agree that the locked cockpit doors and the fact that every flight now has a willing vigilante committee means going back to private security with some minimal checks like metal detectors would give us an acceptable level of security.

      It's just never going to happen, for a variety of reasons.

    75. Re: The cure by BostonPilot · · Score: 1

      And yes. Even the French are better than most American airports.. And that saying something.

      Ha! I travelled to Paris while the whole Algerian terrorist thing was going on, and my luggage must have looked like some terrorists bag because we got pulled aside for extra scrutiny, and it STILL was a lot better than what we put up with in the USA now. If I didn't live in the USA I would never travel here by air.

    76. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      At the risk of defusing my inadvertant shitstorm, is there some sort of cultural issue going on?

      You mean a cultural issue like wanting to see your family occasionally?

      Okay, so it looks like the olive branch has been rebuffed. No problemo, oldguy.

      I lived close to my immediate family. Worked out okay.

      Well that's nice, I'm glad it worked out for you. But there are reasons I can't live close to my family, including work, friends, children, and other minor social things like my life being based in this country for 50 years.

      All based on choices that you made. Unless you were kidnapped as a child and brought to America.

      It's not a realistic option for me to be able to just pack up my shit and move 6000 miles just to be near them. But that doesn't mean I don't want to go visit them from time to time, and the only practical way to do that is to fly. I mean, that's why airplanes were invented, so people could use them to go places.

      We're starting to go around in circles here. It is obvious by you using the service, and continuing to use the service, that it is not enough of a problem for you to avoid using the service. So no need for the US system to change it's behavior based on your simple but not bothered enough to do anything about it dislike.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    77. Re: The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Your prior comments are enraging because you make it seem as though partaking in air travel makes one okay with its injustices. Accepting that the injustices carry a lower cost than not flying is NOT the same as approving of them.

      And the difference between approving of them and not approving of them but continuing to use them is what?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    78. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      So what happens when your family is one country and your wife's family is in another country on the other side of the planet? And neither can desires to move and governments wouldn't let them immigrate if they wanted to anyway.

      Nothing.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    79. Re:The cure by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      That's a chicken and egg problem : it's easy to fly 6000 miles, so it's okay to live far away from close relatives.
      You live far away from relatives, so you "need" to fly 6000 miles.
      Peak oil will sort this problem out.

    80. Re:The cure by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      If the whole point of this setup was to make people safe it has failed miserably.

      Oh? When was the last time a US airliner was hijacked?

      However, the real point of this is to detain people. They're taking pictures and listening to conversations and holding the plane full of passengers on the tarmac for hours to do background checks on everybody. The "security" line is a new form of imprisonment. The apparent "incompetence" is quite intentional and purposely malicious, contrary to the favored meme on the matter.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    81. Re:The cure by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Nothing, as in you just "fuck you" to one half? Or nothing, as in you put up with the TSA shit and occasionally catch a plane?

    82. Re:The cure by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      We're starting to go around in circles here. It is obvious by you using the service, and continuing to use the service, that it is not enough of a problem for you to avoid using the service. So no need for the US system to change it's behavior based on your simple but not bothered enough to do anything about it dislike.

      Jesus, that other guy was right- you are an asshole.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    83. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Yes, I think that your replies show the small-minded lack of vision and smugness from those who have never moved. Never experienced life in different cultures.

      My my, "Small minded", "smug", "fucking stupid" All these labels y'all are throwing at me. Why does suggesting that people either put up with it, or do something about it elicit such vitriolic responses?

      Perhaps you see it as a noble sacrifice.

      Umm, no. Just an exercise of priorities. What's more, an interesting one in comparison to some others. Your family is so important to you that you put up with whatever the TSA demands you put up with so that you can visit them once in a while - apparently a very important thing.

      Whereas my family was important enough to me that I visit, interact with, and see in person every day of the week. You made your choice. I made mine. For which of us was it more important to be around family?

      This was no sacrifice for me. I did very well in career - in fact, a hellava lot better than my siblings who moved away. So we can strike that part of th sacrifice. I did very well even in inheritance as well. Ironically, my insistence that I didn't give a damn - nor wanted - their money - which I truly didn't - seemed to make all the parents want to give my wife and I most of their estates. That was a little embarrassing, but sort of instructive.

      But you see, don't try to hand me the BS about loving your family so much that you just have to go back to see them, then act like I was an asshole for living near my family.

      My parents accepted that I moved to a different continent. They welcomed the fact that I could move thousands of miles away for what I hoped would be a better life. I wasn't the first in my family to move away.

      Good! It owuld be disheartening if you moved away under a family strain.

      You know that the USA was founded by people (presumably your ancestors) who moved away from their family, with the expectation that they would probably never see them again, don't you?

      My Paternal Grandparents came from Yugoslavia/Poland/Austria - whichever it was at the time. They fled for their lives around World War 1. My maternal Grandparents came from Sicily, and there was a bit of English in the mix as well.

      Now, I live in the situation that, due the to vagaries of US immigration law, I have children in two continents. So, to see one of my children, I accept that I need to suck it up when I fly and accept (but don't like) the abuse that the TSA hands out.

      Not everyone has the liberty of living close to their parents.

      Not everyone makes the choice of living far away from their parents.

      I would have thought that, as someone who has given up many opportunities in life to live close to parents, you would understand that I would go through a little inconvenience in order to meet face-to-face with family.

      Well, even though I turned down opportunities to move away, it turned out to be wise to do that. I had a well paid and exceptionally interesting career in my area. So I definitely don't see it as a sacrifice at all. Given your experience, I would view your situation as a many magnitudes bigger sacrifice - and not the air travel part.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    84. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Nothing, as in you just "fuck you" to one half? Or nothing, as in you put up with the TSA shit and occasionally catch a plane?

      WAT? Nothing as in I'm not going. No "fuck you"s needed.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    85. Re:The cure by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Don't fly.

      I agree. I avoid it whenever possible. I think I've flown twice since 9/11. I used to love flying.

      Homeland Security Cuts Causing Extreme Delays and Missed Flights

      No, security theater and the trumped-up terrorism panic are causing extreme delays and missed flights.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    86. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Jesus, that other guy was right- you are an asshole.

      Of course I am. Fortunately, I am surrounded by people with insight and intelligence, and the knowledge that I am wrong. Just another aspect of my priveleged life.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    87. Re:The cure by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I agree. I avoid it whenever possible. I think I've flown twice since 9/11. I used to love flying.

      Careful - agreeing with me will get the troops out after you as well, because they are forced to fly - they have absolutely no choice. I guess.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    88. Re:The cure by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Ask the TSA. The theory is that people on the no-fly list would be flying under an assumed name.

    89. Re: The cure by KenHansen · · Score: 1

      Give the US border agents clearly-defined laws and they can easily be as effective as the Canadians (a country, by the way, which happily deports illegals when discovered in their country).

    90. Re:The cure by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Sure you don't need to say it to them, it's implied by the never seeing them again part.

    91. Re:The cure by silentbozo · · Score: 1

      Do you really think the TSA would be able to remain funded and functional without having the airlines and airports actively consenting to their presence?

      https://www.tsa.gov/for-indust...

      "The Passenger Fee, also known as the September 11 Security Fee, is collected by air carriers from passengers at the time air transportation is purchased. Air carriers then remit the fees to TSA. The fee is currently $5.60 per one-way trip in air transportation that originates at an airport in the U.S., except that the fee imposed per round trip shall not exceed $11.20."

      Mind you, if people don't fly, Congress could just retask the TSA to collecting fees from buses, trains, and ordinary citizens trying to use the highway in order to keep their special interests afloat...

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08...

    92. Re:The cure by Talderas · · Score: 1

      The average operating cost for a medium sedan in 2015 for a 3400 mile trip is $580 plus the added depreciation of your vehicle.

      Dallas, TX and San Francisco, CA is close enough to 1700 miles for comparison of flights. Looking at Expedia for pricing on a roundtrip flight I got $289.70 as the lowest price. Add taxes, checked luggage cost, and parking and you'll still come out under the $580 of driving. You can probably also assume that since you're going to visit family they would be willing to pick you up from the airport. Your travel costs can be nearly halved and your cut the travel time to about one third of the total time. The flight takes about nine hours total and you can add and average of three hours to account for getting to and from the airport plus security. Flying would save money and practically give you an extra two days with your family.

      Of course, I'm assuming that the individual is travelling by himself since he didn't appear to reference any companions. At two people the costs probably about even out. The flight is a little harder on the pocketbook but the intangibles of less mileage on your vehicle (depreciation) as well as more time with family probably still balance out or are still in favor of the flight. Once you get up to three people that's when the flight is clearly more expensive and you're paying for expediency.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    93. Re:The cure by Talderas · · Score: 1

      All based on choices that you made. Unless you were kidnapped as a child and brought to America.

      This is a rather common situation with SE Asia families especially Vietnamese families. Oppression leads to situations where some members of the family were able to get out to the US as refugees while others were stuck behind. The ones that get out frequently continue their lives and have children in the United States. Once the oppression relaxed a bit the refugees were able to take trips back to SE Asia, a month long trip is not uncommon, to see their relatives they haven't seen in years. This is where the split occurs. The children were raised in the United States and not SE Asia. They don't feel at home in SE Asia and they may in fact have families of their own. Many of the refugees that come over wish to be back in their homeland so they will move back to SE Asia while the children, now adults, do not want to.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    94. Re:The cure by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      If you still fly when you don't absolutely have to - you are okay with all of this.

      Please tell me if visiting my relatives who live 6000 miles away is absolutely necessary.

      It's easy to say "don't fly" -- for someone who doesn't fly anyway.

      Absolutely necessary? No, not even nearly. You probably want to and no doubt they want to see you, but no matter how much you want something doesn't make it necessary. Unless there's something you can't do without that you cant get from anywhere else or maybe they're dieing then no, it's not absolutely necessary.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    95. Re:The cure by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      I fly from Heathrow regularly and security isn't too bad at all. They got rid of most of the nude scanners and you can easily pick a line that avoids them. Wait times are quite low, maybe 5-10 minutes when it's busy. The only major annoyance is having to take your shoes off, but they don't always make you do that any more.

      I used to go through Liverpool a fair bit and it was easy. I don't take any thing extra off though unless they specifically ask for it. Bag, coat and belt in the tray. I got asked to take my shoes off maybe 1 time in 20.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    96. Re:The cure by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I re-checked the requirements. You are required to "have" ID and "present" ID when asked, but nobody is required to check it. As opposed to the US where I recall being checked for ID when checking in, when going through security, and inconsistently at the gate. So I must have ID on me, and may be asked to present it, but outside the US, I've never been asked to present it for domestic travel.

    97. Re:The cure by rvw14 · · Score: 1

      There are worse ways to spend your time than in a car, seeing the vast expanses of America

      I agree, although the never-ending fields from western Ohio through Kansas gets a little old after a while. Good thing the thunderstorms rolling up break up the monotony.

    98. Re:The cure by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Assuming you are saying Toronto to Orlando, that is one hell of a weekend trip...why bother?

      https://www.google.com/maps/di...

      18 hours each way, did they do that with two drivers?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    99. Re:The cure by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      No, it's not about policing. The point is that airlines don't want to loose planes and have their customers get killed and the families sue them. They have an incentive to maintain effective security. The government doesn't. The government has an incentive to grow powerful.

      The Feds absolved the airlines of liability for 911. What do you think would have happened if the airlines involved had instead been sued into liquidation? The other airlines would have learned a lesson! We'd have less inconvenience and better security than with the TSA.

      Why would anyone trust the very entity that is largely responsible for the conditions which motivated the terrorists, and who dropped the ball on every clue that something was brewing beforehand? Yet, we must have the government protect us, because, well, it's the government! Our new god.

    100. Re:The cure by Talderas · · Score: 1

      http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-con...

      I used AAA which seems like a reasonable source and only calculated based on operating costs while not factor in operating costs. Their operating costs for a medium sedan were $0.1087/mile (gas), $0.052/mile (maintenance), and $0.0111/mile (tires) for a total operating cost of $0.1718/mile multiplied out by 3400 miles is $584.12.

      You can also incorporate the fixed annual costs into your per mile figure by estimating the total number of miles you drive year.

      Another source I could reference is the IRS and their use their 2016 standard mileage rate of $0.54/mile which incorporates fixed as well as operating costs. By that figure a 3400 mile trip costs $1,836. https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsro...

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  3. Time to get rid of the TSA by Kohath · · Score: 5, Informative

    We need to get the government out of the passenger screening business and let the airports do this screening. Airports actually try to do a good job serving airport customers. And airports will be no worse than the TSA at detecting threats and providing security.

    The worse it gets for travelers at airports, the easier it will be to get rid of the TSA.

    1. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      9/11 happened because the standard reaction at that time was to let the hijackers have control. They were just going to fly and then land somewhere you weren't planning on.

      Now people know better and anyone trying to hijack a plane will likely end up dead before they can do much of anything.

    2. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The security used to be private, and let through 9/11. That's one of the basis of the TSA, though there was nothing let through that wasn't on the government's allowed list.

      That's EXACTLY the point. The hijackers used box cutters which weren't on the list of prohibited items. 9/11 was NOT the result of a failure of airport security personnel. There is thus no rational basis for the existence of the TSA. Pre-9/11, I don't recall any significant security lines. The biggest worry was the line at the ticketing desk if one needed to check luggage. (Otherwise, back then, you could just check in right at the gate. No boarding passes were necessary to get through security.) Now, you need to get the the airport hours ahead of time (even for a 1 hour flight) to make sure you get through security in time to catch your flight. I didn't realize airports were allowed to fire the TSA and go back to their own security, but I don't understand why all airports don't do this right now!

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    3. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      That's one of the basis of the TSA, though there was nothing let through that wasn't on the government's allowed list.

      And the TSA routinely misses 90% of what inspectors try to sneak through. And they're not trying to sneak through bottles of water and nail clippers. They're sneaking in actual knives, as well as 'simulated' but realistic bombs and guns.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    4. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative
      The '60 hijacks were people going to Cuba, everyone walks away. The 2000+ hijacks result in death of everyone. Making the assumption that a success results in the death of everyone has stopped shoe bombers and others that made it through security and were uninterested in cockpit doors.

      Yes, the lock would have stopped 9/11, but many other things would have stopped it as well.

      I didn't realize airports were allowed to fire the TSA and go back to their own security, but I don't understand why all airports don't do this right now!

      They aren't. It's a bluff. The FAA could shut them down. For now, those who could call the bluff appear to be waiting to see what happens. If nobody calls their bluff, everyone will start doing it.

    5. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by NormalVisual · · Score: 2

      They aren't. It's a bluff.

      Sure they are. Kansas City International contracts with Akal Security for screening services, and had used another private contractor for years prior. There are still a few TSA agents at the airport as Akal works under federal oversight, but the screening personnel themseves are Akal employees. I saw it myself when I flew through there back in November.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    6. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

      The TSA has to give them permission and sets the standards. Several major airports made the request after the last big Fuckup by the TSA and the TSA refused to allow them. This is the loophole congress gave the TSA the ability to stop the airports from dropping out of the program.

      Fact is we are outnumbered. There are plenty of Americans that want the TSA to exist and to harass people. There is huge public backlash at any mention of reforming the TSA. And that's the scary thing.

    7. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "I didn't realize airports were allowed to fire the TSA and go back to their own security, but I don't understand why all airports don't do this right now!"

      They can replace TSA screeners, but TSA still sets the policies which are the actual problem.

    8. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Except airport security didn't catch the shoe bomber. He was caught by observant fellow passengers!

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    9. Re:Time to get rid of the TSA by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

      That's not how USA government works -- everyone gets a say in everything. That's a double-edge sword. It means people who don't fly vote on the TSA, but if you start whitelisting who gets to be involved then you get things like environmentalists not allowed to vote on agriculture policy because they aren't farmers. I really don't think you want to move to a system where the government certifies who gets to vote on an issue and who doesn't. It'd be worse than what we have today, I'm pretty sure.

  4. As wait times approach infinity... by Steve1952 · · Score: 4, Funny

    As wait times approach infinity, security gets better and better! How many terrorists are willing to wait more than 100 years, for example? Heck, most give up after only 10 years.

  5. End the theater by Vrallis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    End the bullshit security theater. Do enough to keep serious explosives off (the crotch-bomber was no threat to the flight as a whole), basic metal detector.

    People know now hot to cooperate with hijackers, and have started reacting appropriately (beating the fuck out of anyone attempting it). Cockpit doors are locked now. Those two changes alone were all that were really needed to improve airline security.

    Taking away bottles of water and baby formula, stopping people with pocketknives, making everyone take off their shoes and gut half their luggage for the xrays are all a waste of time. They have caught NO THREATS yet. They have failed every single test to actually sneak stuff through.

    End it.

    1. Re:End the theater by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that they offer the PreCheck lines to people who aren't enrolled in PreCheck... and who consequently have no fucking idea how to go back to early-90s security standards. I waited in line for five minutes last week while a guy kept failing the metal detector... because when they asked him if he had any metal in his body, he forgot about his hip replacement. Would have been faster to go through the regular line.

    2. Re:End the theater by dhickman · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      I fly multiple times a week. As a professional traveler, I usually fly on sunday afternoon, 5-7 am on monday, and return on thursday afternoons/evenings.

      I noticed several weeks ago that the precheck lines were packed several deep. This usually never happens at these times.

      What makes this really strange is that there are even more people working at the checkpoint than before.



      I got to enjoy the phoenix mess the other day. Even though I was precheck, they has issues with my cane, yes a walking cane. This is the same checkpoint, I have gone through and the same people I have encounter at the same time for the last three weeks.

      This week will be East Coast cities for a change.

      Most of the slowdowns like what happened at phoenix are aimed at the occasional traveler. If you have pre-check, and do not check your bags, then you just had to enjoy an extra 30 minutes of loading time on the plane since people had to argue with the flight attendants when they had to gate check their bag.

      What a joke!

    3. Re:End the theater by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      End the bullshit security theater. Do enough to keep serious explosives off (the crotch-bomber was no threat to the flight as a whole), basic metal detector.

      People know now hot to cooperate with hijackers, and have started reacting appropriately (beating the fuck out of anyone attempting it). Cockpit doors are locked now. Those two changes alone were all that were really needed to improve airline security.

      Taking away bottles of water and baby formula, stopping people with pocketknives, making everyone take off their shoes and gut half their luggage for the xrays are all a waste of time. They have caught NO THREATS yet. They have failed every single test to actually sneak stuff through.

      End it.

      The problem at the root is those in government no longer fear the people and feel safe in defying the will of those who elected them.

      Make it socially unacceptable and physically dangerous to work for the TSA in any capacity and still live/shop/travel/school among regular folks. Make the experience of working for the TSA either as an hourly-wage worker or top administrator on par with wearing a swastika-emblazoned KKK hood/costume 24/7 while living in Harlem and being unarmed.

      Put up a website with names, photos, addresses. and any other personal data of all the TSA employees and officials that can be identified. Have your kids regularly beat the shit out of their kids. Make it so that the TSA couldn't get applicants for a screener job even if they offered a $150K/yr salary + benefits to start.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    4. Re:End the theater by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      "They have caught NO THREATS yet."

      In fairness, many decades ago a few months after "they" got tired of retrieving aircraft and passengers from Cuba and installed metal detectors, the guy in front of me in a boarding line at Denver was found to be carrying a pair of handcuffs. He declined to explain why and was hustled off by two large security people. I guess that counts as catching a threat ... maybe.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    5. Re:End the theater by Vrallis · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that they offer the PreCheck lines to people who aren't enrolled in PreCheck... and who consequently have no fucking idea how to go back to early-90s security standards. I waited in line for five minutes last week while a guy kept failing the metal detector... because when they asked him if he had any metal in his body, he forgot about his hip replacement. Would have been faster to go through the regular line.

      Even worse, I've been through airports where the TSA drone sitting at the empty Precheck line is basically talking shit to everyone in the regular line right next to her. "You know, you could just sign up for Precheck and not deal with that long line!" Why should I pay ANOTHER fee for pointless security theater?

    6. Re:End the theater by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Security theater is simple sabotage, a way to detain people, so yes, it does have a purpose.

      Flying is extremely safe. The biggest threat these days is the pilot

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    7. Re:End the theater by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does anyone else have a problem with there being a fee at all? This sure seems like government treating people differently because of their economic levels, something that we are generally supposed to oppose. This really bothers me lately -- I'm standing in the high speed PreCheck line and watching the woman with three kids try to keep them entertained in the slow main line. She's a lower threat profile than I am (male traveling alone), but I have the time and resources to go get the TSA interview. Something feels really wrong here.

    8. Re:End the theater by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      FWIW, my wife gets in the PreCheck line whenever she flies with me, even though she's not certified.

  6. 100,000 passengers through screening, 0 found with by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    100,000 passengers through screening, 0 found with contraban. If 99.9999999999% of passengers are just trying to get to their destination, is it really worth wasting everyone's time with screening? Is the fear of one guy with a bomb or nailclippers or a lighter really so great as to delay everyone? Sounds like the terrorists have won.

  7. The real purpose of security checks? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTA:
    "the screenings were necessary to ensure passenger safety"

    I rather suspect the screenings are 'necessary' for two reasons having nothing to do with passenger safety:
    -- To further grow the thriving empire that is government-mandated security theatre, so more people can draw bigger salaries and have better job security as they pretend to contribute to the good of society.
    -- To expand and reinforce among the population the knee-jerk response of obedience to the dictates of authority, regardless of the pointlessness and impracticality of said dictates.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    1. Re:The real purpose of security checks? by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the answer is to increase the budget *and* fire everyone currently involved. Then those who say, "we need a bigger budget" are not the ones who benefit. It encourages TSA to do as much as it can and only ask for budget as a last resort, and only when they really think it'll help security for the good of others.

  8. ineffective security theater by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    how much longer are we going to put up with this ineffective security theater (search security breach TSA) that is but a total waste of time?

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:ineffective security theater by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Until the voters vote for change. And no, "hope and change" from a mainstream candidate is neither.

    2. Re: ineffective security theater by Luthair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Forever, no politician wants to cancel it and something to happen whether the TSA would have prevented it or not

    3. Re:ineffective security theater by ark1 · · Score: 1

      As long as someone is making money out of this.

    4. Re: ineffective security theater by elcor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Politicians work for us. They do respond to requests, just contact your representative or shut the hell up.

    5. Re:ineffective security theater by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 5, Informative

      Forever, probably. The crazy thing is that at virtually any airport outside the United States of Total Paranoia you can clear security in 5-10 minutes, no queues, with no more (or less) terrorist attacks than in the USTP.

    6. Re: ineffective security theater by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The suppliers and consultants working for TSA pay for their campaigns.. You annoy then with letters or emails then vote however you want.
      Who so you think they will side with exactly?
      Welcome to democracy 2.0

    7. Re:ineffective security theater by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      If anything, money will decide. If this hurts our economy enough, our leaders might half-ass a response that will please nobody and make things worse.

    8. Re: ineffective security theater by toddestan · · Score: 1

      It's also a jobs program. No politician wants to cut a program and put hundreds of thousands out of a job. It doesn't matter that we'd all be better off if we just paid them to stay home.

    9. Re:ineffective security theater by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      At present, I remain unconvinced that voters have much influence over the government.

      If you are convinced voters do, please feel free to give us all a reason to think otherwise.

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    10. Re:ineffective security theater by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      None of the two parties want Trump, yet here he sits, the presumed candidate for a major party, and polling with a reasonable chance of winning. He could afford the buy-in without "permission" and had enough popular support to upset many.

      The problem is the voters are dumb.

    11. Re:ineffective security theater by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      "A" problem, not "the" problem.

      And not all voters.

      Another problem is that government has shielded the two currently dominant political parties from competition. No matter how bad they are are choosing candidates or at governing, they will not go the way of the Whig Party.

      If things continue to suck, one or both of them might lose their statutory duopoly status in an unpleasant manner reminiscent of the loss of statutory monopoly status of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union.

      Or worse yet, the even more unpleasant manner that the Romanians disempowered their Communist Party. http://duckduckgo.com?q=romani...

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    12. Re:ineffective security theater by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Is Hillary any better though? It seems like both parties chose horrible candidates this time around.

      Who makes up the parties anyways? My understanding was that the GOP was made up of its members, in which case, Trump is exactly the candidate that was selected by the party. The party isn't just the politicians and party leadership.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    13. Re:ineffective security theater by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      There has only been one candidate to poll as 'hated' more than Hillary, and that was Donald. Neither is any good, but at least Hillary has held public office before, and is more qualified than Trump, even if more hated here because of her far-right leanings (as opposed to the general conservatives here that are ultra-far-right leanings).

  9. Blue Flu Tantrums Paralyze The Nation by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1, Troll

    It's as if the police union are on strike and the city is gridlocked because there are no cops to guide people through intersections. No one feels comfortable reminiscing the days when mere traffic lights (common sense small delay procedures like airport metal detectors) managed the intersections, And things moved along. It's time to roll this shit back. The problem is that no one has the courage to do it. We've been led on by stages.

    1. Everybody 'needs' insurance to operate. So the shots are called by the most spineless of individuals, the decision-makers at insurance companies who, far from public view or accountability, indicate that they'd prefer to make some change that would seriously impact quality of life. When life sucks just a little more each time, they shrug. Life is not sucking for them.

    2. In an atmosphere of politics driven by fear, only the most twistedly paranoid persons run the show. Paranoid security freaks have comitted us to one Faustian bargain after another. No one has ever admitted that any 'safety' measure was excessive and uncalled-for. No one,in history. Sound strange? It should. You have bought into something that embodies the worst aspects of a religion without even the clear goal of one. When fear grips the nation and life sucks a little more --- yet --- no attacks occur, they just shrug and say, that's proof that it's working. Life is not sucking for them.

    3. Once upon a time, smart people created something called a 'Sunset Provision', to keep bad legislation from turning everything to shit. No one cared, no one acted courageously and the shit is now locked in, maybe for good. Obama recently extended the Patriot Act provisions --- not from any clear evidence that it has a positive effect, but because he is the latest spineless machine in a series of spineless legislative machines.

    Instead of Congress repealing bad legislation, they add pages to it. And here we go again 1-2-3, 1-2-3. It's a Waltz of Doom.

    It's a simple little ratchet device, that is making life suck more every day.
    FYI There's a little lever on the ratchet that unlocks it.
    Too bad no one has the courage to operate the lever.
    Or it's someone else's job.
    If you think that these days are so much better than the 60s, the 80s, the 90s, you have a great excuse not to touch the lever.

    >CLICK<

    There, now life sucks a little more. But just a little.

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  10. How can I get in on this? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    "...prompting city officials to investigate replacing the TSA with a private security contractor..."

    Oh yeah, I'm sure this will go swimmingly. Can you imagine how much a private security contractor will charge for this nonsense? It'll be 5 times what the TSA costs now and be just as bad if not worse.

    Oh, you missed your flight due to long security screening lines? Too bad, just call $big_company (like Halliburton, perhaps?) and complain. Then you'll be told that there's no refund or compensation, and yes, you agreed to it because it was in the EULA that was on your plane ticket.

    My only question is, "How can I get in on this boondoggle?"

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:How can I get in on this? by Tyrannosaur · · Score: 1

      I don't know; competition very often produces much better results for a better price. If the private security contracter charges more for a lower quality product, Phoenix won't continue using them. Simple as that. And if they work better and faster than the TSA, why would Phoenix continue to use the TSA?

      As for how to "get in on this boondoggle" try this

    2. Re:How can I get in on this? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Yeah! Just like hammers are so much cheaper for the military than they are for regular people because Government is Awesome and so thrifty!

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:How can I get in on this? by mspohr · · Score: 2

      This is standard Republican neoliberal economics.
      1. Cut funding for a government service.
      2. Service deteriorates.
      3. Privatize the service (of course, it's much more expensive now but that's OK since it's going to private corporations.)

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    4. Re:How can I get in on this? by Kwyj1b0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know; competition very often produces much better results for a better price.

      The ground reality is that there will be very little competition for such contracts - the TSA replacement initiative will be created/overseen by politicians (the airlines/airports can't arbitrarily decide to switch to private providers, as far as I know), and they are going to write language/requirements so that only one (or at most a few) companies are capable of handling the project. There will be very little true competition - it basically will look like the US internet situation today. If more than one company can meet the requirements, they'll divvy up the market between themselves (mostly geographically) to avoid directly competing.

  11. Re: "Contemplate increased wait times as you trave by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    I shall do just that, during the ample time for contemplation afforded by the longer lines.

    Just make sure you get to the airport early (12 hours before takeoff should be about right) and enjoy a leisurely day in the TSA line.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  12. Open the gates by ebonum · · Score: 1

    When the wait time hits a certain threshold, open the gates and just let everyone walk through until the line clears.

    Getting things done is more important than having a show of security that shuts down business. If you don't like it, go home and hide under your bed. Wait. The odds of being killed in a car crash on the way home are higher than the odds of a terrorist attack. Go hide under the seats by the ticket counter and wait for the government to come mother you.

    1. Re:Open the gates by radarskiy · · Score: 2

      A slight modification that I would suggest is to pass people by random number generator with a dynamically scaled threshold. This prevents a DoS by just packing the line with a sudden surge of confederates, and it also normalized the fact that some people don't get searched at all.

  13. Exacerbated by TSA pre-check by perkerk · · Score: 1

    A significant contributor to this problem is the relatively new TSA pre-check passenger category. Along with airport personnel and premium passengers, these people usually immediately pre-processed by TSA personnel as they arrive, which can starve the regular passenger lines of service. And they often have dedicated screening lines with space and TSA agents that are underutilized, while the regular adjacent lines are overloaded. Some airports like PDX (Portland) seem very attuned to issues like these, and are hustling people through as best as possible. And then there's AUS (Austin) where the TSA personnel are virtually clueless about slowdowns, much less the cause of them, and also appear uninterested in trying to improve anything.

    1. Re:Exacerbated by TSA pre-check by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      The pre-check lines have never been under-used when I fly, I always find a wait there. Sometimes a long wait, as I have heard of recently.

      The only problem with Pre-Check was what the article mentioned, they thought they could process people faster because so many would be using pre-check, that they let a bunch of workers go. Oops! Now we all pay for incompetent forecasting that seems like it could easily have been modeled.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  14. TSA wastes more human life than terrorists could by Kludge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Flights per year in US: 800x 10^6. Assume 2/3 of those go through TSA.
    Average time spent in line at TSA: 20 minutes
    Average human lifetime: 40 x 10^6 minutes
    800 x 10^6 * 2/3 * 20 minutes / (40 x 10^6) = 267 human lifetimes

    The TSA wastes at least 270 human lives every year. Even if we had no security at airports, terrorists would never kill that many people EVERY year.
    That does not even factor in the billions of dollars that it costs to run the TSA.

  15. Then how about getting rid of the shit? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I mean, it's nice that you want to find a job for the unemployable, but could you maybe stuff them somewhere where they don't get into the way of others?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  16. You must be new here by raymorris · · Score: 2

    You must be new here (earth). For most of my life, airport security was by private contractors hired by companies that want your business- airlines and airports. There wasn't a two hour wait and cost was far lower.

    It's interesting to me that so many people guess what might happen if ______ (something that's happened a lot). We know exactly how private security works, we had it for decades. A lot like people who make predictions about the effect of ignoring the second amendment- we don't have to guess, gun bans have been done numerous times in numerous places and we know what the results have been.

  17. End the pre-check fee by hawguy · · Score: 1

    I already get "free" precheck about half the time I fly. If they can automatically qualify me for pre-check without making me pay $85 and visit a TSA office to enroll, why don't they just continue to do that? Though I don't see why I sometimes get free pre-check on an outbound flight but not on a returning flight, have I suddenly become a security risk in the 2 days since my outbound flight, or are they just trying to give me a taste of pre-check so I pay to enroll?

    1. Re:End the pre-check fee by ffkom · · Score: 1

      have I suddenly become a security risk in the 2 days since my outbound flight

      Yes, it's absolutely plausible that anyone who got a chance to first-hand experience a different country (like one that is less violent and less obsessed with going to war) might immediately be turned hostile against his country of origin and become a terrorist, returning only to bomb someone. And the only plausible answer to that can be more paranoia and hostility towards people arriving. </irony>

  18. Re:TSA wastes more human life than terrorists coul by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You forgot the extra 500 deaths due to people driving rather than flying, which is more dangerous on average.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  19. That is why, but you need not wait by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    I'm sure that's why a lot of people do not sign up for pre-check, because the wait to get an interview seems way to long.

    In reality though you can do it pretty much any day, you just may have to wait a bit longer - just show up and say you'd like an interview, there are often openings as the interviews are pretty short and they usually have time between each one.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:That is why, but you need not wait by Ingenium13 · · Score: 2

      Yeah my pre-check "interview" (if you can even call it that) was at most 5 minutes. Walked in, said hi, showed my passport, then placed both hands on the glass fingerprint readers. Done. They said I should have my KTN within 24 hours, and by the time I got home and checked it was already there.

    2. Re:That is why, but you need not wait by bobaferret · · Score: 1

      Drive an hour away, with wife and kids,during work/school day, pay annual fee for all of them...

      yeah, not worth it.

    3. Re:That is why, but you need not wait by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      The thing lasts for FIVE WHOLE YEARS of air travel. During which time you can have PreCheck and global entry (if you travel internationally at all).

      The very first time you come through customs alone you'll find it's very much worth it. But it's your time, by all means enjoy waiting in airpot lines with kids for hours longer than you have to, every single time you fly...

      If I had a family that travelled at all by plane, Pre-Check would be a must have just for sanity.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  20. Instead of contemplation, just tell me. by Kwyj1b0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here's an idea for the people who seem to love to spend money on technology - have a system where I can take a look at the current (and expected) wait times before I leave for airport.

    While I'd still hate long waits, right now I have no idea if I'm going to be done in 10 minutes, or an hour. Maybe you could tell us? I'm sure you will come up with a "security" reason why us plebs shouldn't know how long the lines are going to be, and instead have to guesstimate the wait time.

    It might in fact work out better if you use an appointment type system - recently I was in line with a person who had come to the airport two hours before his flight, and someone whose flight was going to depart in the next 15 minutes. When you make wait times unpredictable, you are creating these type of situations.

    1. Re:Instead of contemplation, just tell me. by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      In fairness, if they could project more than 20 minutes in advance they would likely open additional lines. Since they need to shift staff between positions, one bad rotation and a single line can drop to 20% of its normal throughput. If that change is poorly timed-- going into a rush as an example-- it can have a quick and terrible impact. The obvious opportunity there is more matrix flow between positions so people can route around the problem...

      It wouldn't seem that hard though to track bags per minute per screener to verify that they are suited to be working in a peak period.

    2. Re:Instead of contemplation, just tell me. by JeffOwl · · Score: 1

      I don't think that would do it. The biggest delays seem to happen at the same time every week, Monday morning being a very predictable example. Even then they don't have all the lanes open. This smacks of typical government extortion. "Give us more money or we will cut the services that most impact the public." They won't make a serious attempt to work more efficiently or otherwise cut the fat.

  21. Pure BS. by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

    There are three primary causes for delay by TSA:
    1. People checking IDs spending too much time per passenger. Often being friendly or helping out, but also people that are just slow. (Why the process isn't primarily automated is beyond me.) Other issues arise when people don't know what they are doing.

    2. Baggage scanners with inadequate aptitude to review data presented to them on screen, potentially being overly conservative. From what I can tell, this is sometimes caused by screeners that are highly procedural and not creative in their approach; I thought their displays were mirrored to other screens; it would seem appropriate to be able to "vote" to pass bags, or having an AI do more of the work.

    3. Lack of a secondary screening X-Ray terminal. While there are bags that need multiple scans, this should not hold up the rest of the line. The systems several airports have where there is a "diverter" line with its own scanner is really needed at high-flow lines. Typically I see it done as one diverter per two primary scanners.

    There are a number of other things that could be improved. The naked body scanners have improved, but weird things still slow them down-- long hair, baggy clothes, etc. To that end, more people in Pre Check would improve the situation, but it should still be less than 20 seconds per passenger going through a line. This inefficiency seems more like a space constraint, as just having a full time male and female at each scanner would improve throughput.

    1. Re:Pure BS. by ledow · · Score: 1

      Okay, applying your suggestions to other places not involved with the TSA.

      London Stansted airport.

      1) People spend seconds checking each passport. There are 30-something aisles with people, plus 10-20 automated biometric scanners lanes. Still, the longest part of my getting through an airport is getting through passport control. I have a biometric-passport. The biometric scanners so far have a 100% failure rate for me. I'm then diverted to the manual lines. So much so, that I ignore the people pushing me towards the biometric lines and just queue up in the manual lines anyway. The manual lines queue for 30 minutes plus guaranteed, and the guy at the end just sticks my passport in his scanner, looks up at me, maybe asks me where I've come from today. That's it.

      2) Baggage handling for carry-on? Same issue. 30-60 minutes of queueing to get to one of 30-40 lines. Sure, they pick up on things that are left in people's bags around me but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. Also, that I have to separate laptops etc. suggests to me that if you have a suitably convoluted packing, something would be able to slip through anyway. Generally, I observe 95% pass-through rate in those around me, but all the pissing about separating shit and then recombining and re-clothing is what costs the time. Baggage handling for drop-off you never see anyway, so it's not a delay that you're aware of.

      3) Pretty much, the rate of re-scan doesn't really affect this, because it just gets put back into the line. Each re-scan is no more than an extra passenger at worst, and to be honest, if you have another X-Ray terminal that has to be manned, you could push another N passengers through that too, quite easily. You're arguing for sacrificing a few hundred passengers per hour scanning for a reduction in the 5% or less "bounce" rate.

      So I don't think it really has anything to do with the above.

      The problem? The system is stupid and inefficient. Turn up a desk to check in baggage, get asked security questions. Baggage (eventually) goes off to a line where it's scanned again and then (after a LONG time moving around or just sitting still) is loaded onto a plane.

      Then go - in your own time - to security where your passport is scanned to let you into the queue. Then queue to get to the hand-baggage scanners, where you have to unpack so much stuff and undress partially, and then have your person scanned, and then get to put it all back on to get to the next queue and so on.

      And then, when you re-enter, you land, then queue to passport control, then get asked where you've come from etc. because they've mixed a dozen flights into the same security line and think that this will somehow "catch you out" (I assume they are looking for something COMPLETELY different to be honest, at least I hope they are), then queue to get your luggage, which lands in a queue, then go through customs channels, and then you're back into the place you were standing to get in in the first place.

      What you have is complete lack of flow. How about this:

      You get into the airport and all you have access to is check-in. You won't linger here. Your check-in consists of an airport rep doing the paperwork after you've walked through an airport-security scanner, your hand-luggage being scanned (and ready to pick up on the other side of the check-in for your airport rep's queue), and the pat-down, electronic arches, etc..

      The security guy can't be given a different story to the check-in rep, and he's perfectly aware if you're travelling with X, Y or Z who's also on the flight. No more "they split up in the airport" crap to track. If there's a problem, they can pull you out of the entire flight and everything else immediately, and no more bollocks about having to turn up so early or missing your flight - you're either checked in or not and no 1+ hour delay in security potentially hindering your flight (I feel sorry for anyone who has to transfer at an airport, fuck that).

      Your hand-baggage and your

  22. Starve the beast by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    it's been a tactic of the right wing for years. There's no easier way to convince people that gov't can't work then to break it on purpose.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  23. Another solution by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    properly fund the TSA. I don't like the idea of handing off something as important as this to the lowest bidder. And you're _always_ handing it off to the lowest bidder when you let the market decide. That's how markets work.

    As for the worse it gets the easier it being to get rid of the TSA, well that's kind of the point. It's called "Starve the Beast" and it's a strategy for privatizing public utilities and services for profit. Works too.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Another solution by Mr.CRC · · Score: 2

      The problem is a 3rd party. The airlines should be responsible for security. They have the incentive to not loose planes, and not have their company liquidated to cover liability for loss of life due to negligent security practices leading to a major catastrophe. Of course it was the Feds who took that liability away.

      We mess up the incentives and then wonder why society is broken--only to try and solve it with further distortions. We really have no idea what we are doing.

    2. Re:Another solution by elcor · · Score: 1

      TSA should be defunded but I agree that they plan on opening bids to corporations in charge of prisons.

    3. Re:Another solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The TSA here _is_ the lowest bidder. If you're unclear that the TSA isn't underfunded, rather it's terribly managed, then go to any international airport. There's about 10 TSA "workers" to a single scanning machine and the vast majority of scanners are not in operation. At Dulles and Reagan International (DC Area airports), it's at least two thirds of the scanners are not in operation, which limits the flow of all passengers through the same one or two scanners.

      I wonder why it's so slow?!

      I fly a lot. TSA PreCheck (and, similarly, Global Entry) brings in funding for the TSA, but the only thing it does is change the start of the line and the ridiculous notion that you don't need to take off your shoes at some airports. At most airports, I end up going through the _exact_ same scanning process as non-PreCheck people, but I get to skip the line to the scanner -- thus delaying everyone without PreCheck. It's a ridiculous notion that PreCheck was meant to speed up the process for anyone but the person with PreCheck.

      The only airport where I've seen PreCheck get its own scanning process is Dulles and it's not always in operation.

    4. Re:Another solution by Kohath · · Score: 1

      The proper amount of funding for the TSA is $0. Only a TSA fan would argue they should get increased funding instead of being eliminated.

  24. A little bit of make work by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    isn't necessarily a bad thing. Given the amount of Automation going on we're either gonna figure out what to do with all the people who aren't genius grade or let billions starve. That was the original purpose of the military industrial complex. Eisenhower talked about it in his memoirs. As for obedience you're reading too much into it and over estimating the average joe's ability to make change. We can't even get these folks to bother voting in a mid term. Who needs obedience when apathy will do?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:A little bit of make work by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      (A little bit of make work) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Given the amount of Automation going on we're either gonna figure out what to do with all the people who aren't genius grade or let billions starve. That was the original purpose of the military industrial complex. Eisenhower talked about it in his memoirs.

      Given the efficiencies that come with extreme automation, won't we as a species be able to afford the keeping and feeding of all of us? Those of us who are so inclined will still work at something, because we're motivated by interest and/or purpose. Others will live the life of bread and circuses, (without the full bellies and distracting entertainments being used to ultimately subjugate them and screw them over), until they either get bored and pull their heads out of the sand, or commit suicide over the futility of their lives. With rampant automation, and provided we don't over-tax the earth's ability to sustain us, (that's a whole 'nother argument), I don't see any need for anyone to starve.

      As for obedience you're reading too much into it...

      You may be right, but I'd say that remains to be seen.

      ...and over estimating the average joe's ability to make change. We can't even get these folks to bother voting in a mid term. Who needs obedience when apathy will do?

      Yeah, it makes me sad to have to agree with that. And it makes me even sadder that I laughed when I read your final question. But I like to think that a significant percentage of those folks would be engaged if their votes were truly relevant and if that military-industrial complex you mentioned wasn't so effective at stacking the deck against them. I may be naive and perhaps deluded, but I live in hope...

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  25. Former road warrior here. by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I used to spend almost half my time on the road. I used to have nightmares about air travel, but it was never about plane crashes, it was about horrible mess-ups on the ground -- delayed or canceled flight causing me to miss my connection. That kind of thing.

    Then a funny thing happened: sooner or later all of my nightmares ended up coming true.

    I've missed key meetings with clients because the airlines couldn't get me to my destination on the appointed day. I've spent the night trying to sleep sitting up at Chicago Midway. I once spent 23 hours and 53 minutes in the loving embrace of the air travel system, just to cross the continental United States. I've flown across the continent sandwiched between two sweaty three hundred pound men, and I'm no lightweight myself. I've flown to Chile on a ten hour flight that allowed smoking. I was supposed to be on the flight that flew into the South Tower of the WTC on 9/11, but my trips was cancelled at the last minute so I could attend a bullshit meeting at Oracle in Nashua NH, which of course didn't happen because we spent the whole day glued to the TV in the conference room.

    After having had almost every kind of bad air travel thing that can happen short of a crash or a hijacking, and having dodged one very major bullet, I just take all the crap air travel throws at me in stride. Flying will always be unreliable and inconvenient. Oh, you can learn the tricks of the trade, like "Never book an itinerary that involves Newark in any way," but there's no way to get around the fact that flying will always be inconvenient and unreliable, because the airlines will always promise more than they can deliver. So you show up ridiculously early in case of security snafus, bring plenty of stuff to read, and roll with the punches. It's like Hamlet said: there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. A screwed up itinerary is just an opportunity to catch up on my reading.

    The poster is right: if you have any option other than flying, choose that instead. I'll even take a four hour bus ride over a one hour flight, provided it's a non-stop bus. But if you have to fly, you just have to put up with it, because it'll never get much better than it is now. Sure, the TSA should fix their manpower problem, but even if they do flying will never be like what airlines promise it will be.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  26. I like L. Neil Smith's approach. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    In _The Probability Broach_, an alternate-universe Science Fiction novel where the "North American Confederacy" is a minarchist "government" evolved from the pre-Constitution, Articles of Confederacy - based, United States, where pretty much everybody goes around armed all the time, a (private-enterprise zeplin) airline has a weapons checkpoint in the boarding path.

    What they check is that, if you're carrying a projectile weapon, it is loaded with frangible rounds that won't penetrate the walls and internal partitions of the aircraft.

    Anyone foolish enough to try to rob, beat, etc. others, and thus provoke them into a self-defence draw-down, is on their own. B-) Meanwhile, trying to get into the control cabin with frangible ammunition is futile - and will attract the attention of the other, armed, passengers.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  27. Wrong disease by s.petry · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The problem here is simply that the TSA and the Unions are attempting to blackmail the public for more funding. Just like when President Obama had the National parks shut down, and his was successful.

    Want to fix the disease? Start canning Government officers by any and all possible means and ban the ability for Government positions to be unionized. Everyone and their brother warned about the dangers of letting public servants unionize.

    It was not too long ago that Public Service was just a job, often requiring sacrifice to fulfill. Today, it's like hitting the frigging Lottery.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Wrong disease by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      So when exactly are you going to apply for a job as a TSA screening officer, they are looking for 768, after all it is like winning the lottery or are you just bullshitting. So people should be banned from joining unions or perhaps having a government jobs means becoming a second class citizen with less rights or well, seriously. Perhaps you can just kick a random fireman, soldier or policemen in the nuts for you jollies, as they do not deserve the protection of unions and they should be regularly 'sacrificed?', seriously.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:Wrong disease by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Why in the hell are there just a bunch of conspiracy nuts here today? At least more prominent than usual.

      Says the AC, who is obviously too paranoid to log in...

    3. Re:Wrong disease by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      ... or might have a moment and doesn't want to be bothered to log in, or is on a public computer... and it's not exactly like a user name that is not a real name is making any kind of grand stance by calling get out ACs.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  28. All this is done on purpose by elcor · · Score: 2

    Problem-Reaction-Solution. They cause the problem by cutting budget, our reaction is what we get now. They will soon come with solutions such as biometrics, private contractors which are not bound by law etc... Time to contact your senators - in drove and saturate them with firm requests to do the right thing. And remember: the heads of the TSA are all ex-military. So in essence civilians are answering to militaries.

  29. Stupid by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    Last year I was included in Pre-Check for the first time ever, as far as I know. My boarding pass had a note on it.

    No one ever mentioned Pre-Check, I had never heard of it, and it not only meant nothing, I didn't even recognize it. The agent at the head of the queues didn't mention anything. I went through regular screening.

    Poorly implemented, poorly delivered, stupid. I finally, on the return trip, was told by the agent to turn right and bypass screening. I had no idea why until I saw the signage AFTER going through the Pre-Check gate.

    Stupid. Typical TSA/government. We need to make them stop this. ALL of this.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  30. Re:groping? by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    I too fly monthly. I have a hernia that is apparently indistinguishable from C4. The worthless fuckers pat me down every single time and have me lift my shirt. America is no safer afterwards.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  31. Budget shenanigans by andymadigan · · Score: 2

    "In the past three years, the TSA and Congress cut the number of front-line screeners by 4,622 -- or about 10% -- on expectations that an expedited screening program called PreCheck would speed up the lines. However, not enough people enrolled for TSA to realize the anticipated efficiencies."

    So, really, this was just congress cooking the books with the budget by cutting something that would have to be restored. PreCheck (or, rather, the Trusted Traveler programs that give you access to PreCheck) require an in-person interview. Last time I checked, the next available appointment at SFO (the only location for this in the Bay Area) was November! Plenty of people have signed up, but there isn't enough capacity to process the applications.

    Congress should have realized that enrolling millions of people in a new program would require significant funding.

    --
    The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    1. Re:Budget shenanigans by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      <quote>"In the past three years, the TSA and Congress cut the number of front-line screeners by 4,622 -- or about 10% -- on expectations that an expedited screening program called PreCheck would speed up the lines. However, not enough people enrolled for TSA to realize the anticipated efficiencies."</quote> So, really, this was just congress cooking the books with the budget by cutting something that would have to be restored. PreCheck (or, rather, the Trusted Traveler programs that give you access to PreCheck) require an in-person interview. Last time I checked, the next available appointment at SFO (the only location for this in the Bay Area) was November! Plenty of people have signed up, but there isn't enough capacity to process the applications. Congress should have realized that enrolling millions of people in a new program would require significant funding.

      They haven't even figured out that battling Zika virus is going to cost a couple of billion dollars. These are the same folks who bludgeoned Obama for not responding enough to Ebola.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  32. Is it a bathroom gender identity skirmish? by no1nose · · Score: 1

    For god's sake. let people, pee, molest, etc, just let us through the security line.

  33. There are good uses for low skill labor by zenyu · · Score: 1

    There are so many things that aren't well automated. In other countries I've seen how they employ low skilled workers building sidewalk extensions and doing the manual labor needed to help a pipelaying machine or a paving machine. We have so much end of life infrastructure in the ground and so many poorly engineered streets that we could find work for all the teens and other difficult to employ for decades just in this one sector already run by the government.

  34. Cute thought, but naive by sdinfoserv · · Score: 1

    My wife is a corporate execute for a company with operational offices all over the country. Video conferencing doesn't cut it. She needs to be on premise, or you just don't get the understanding of what's going on. most often the culprit is bad site management, who can be quite adapt at hiding issues if you're not on site. It's in the health care field and these issues can be life or death. non-flight isn't an option. .

  35. Homeland Security wants more money... by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    ... and they are going to sabotage air travel until they get it.

  36. What a maroon by s.petry · · Score: 2

    So when exactly are you going to apply for a job as a TSA screening officer, they are looking for 768, after all it is like winning the lottery or are you just bullshitting.

    What a foolish question. Why would I take a starter job anywhere for any reason? Not everyone on Slashdot is young enough to do so. Now if these jobs existed 3x years ago do you think I'd have served in the Army? Do you think I'd have struggled to put myself through 8 years of College as a restaurant manager instead of taking a TSA job? You are not performing mental gymnastics, you are just being a stupid prick.

    So people should be banned from joining unions or perhaps having a government jobs means becoming a second class citizen with less rights or well, seriously.

    Awe, is someone so enraged that they can't hold a single concept for more than a second? Government jobs should not be allowed to unionize, it's very specific very intentionally. That same opinion and all of the warnings about the dangers can be found as far back as President Hoover. Milton Friedman warned of the same a bit more eloquently. You being too stupid to read has nothing to do with your broken logic and appeal to emotion. Government service, like "Government" can not be treated the same as personal business.

    Perhaps you can just kick a random fireman, soldier or policemen in the nuts for you jollies, as they do not deserve the protection of unions and they should be regularly 'sacrificed?', seriously.

    Talk about absurdity, yes... I think that anyone I don't like should be thrown into the volcano to be sacrificed. You first.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:What a maroon by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Now if these jobs existed 3x years ago do you think I'd have served in the Army? Do you think I'd have struggled to put myself through 8 years of College as a restaurant manager instead of taking a TSA job?

      Well, that tells me everything I need to know. What do you think is so easy about working a make work job that pays a practically subsistence wage. My guess is it's also a dead-end job, any serious agency or security company is going to look at them the way IT managers look at helpdesk people.

      Here's the salary for TSA "officers", http://www.payscale.com/resear...
      FYI; I think they should just close down the whole thing, TSA does nothing (good for citizens).

  37. Re:TSA wastes more human life than terrorists coul by toddestan · · Score: 1

    There's also the extra cancer deaths due to the radiation from the scanners. Yes, the chances are small, but with hundreds of millions of scans every year you're going to a get a few.

  38. Antipathetic Congress underfunding TSA by peter303 · · Score: 1

    TSA just doesnt have the budget to hire more workers nor allowed to pay overtime. A US Congress that wants smaller government and dislikes Big Brother TSA in particular has strangled the budget. There are certainly enough security fees on airplane tickets to pay for TSA. TSA has no shortage of interested applicants. Its one of thecrare service jobs that pays substantially above minimum wage without college or trade training. TSA is not the only agency micromanaged by an antipathic Congress. The IRS and National Park Service are agencies with more revenues than they are allowed to spend and suffering too.

  39. Wait time increased 200% because of 10% reduction? by KenHansen · · Score: 1

    "In the past three years, the TSA and Congress cut the number of front-line screeners by 4,622 -- or about 10% -- on expectations that an expedited screening program called PreCheck would speed up the lines. However, not enough people enrolled for TSA to realize the anticipated efficiencies."

    Two things: 1) 4,622 jobs were cut? 2) How did a 10% headcount reduction result in a doubling or tripling of wait times? It is interesting that the TSA and Congress agreed to the staff cuts (likely to pay for the failed 'pre-check program', which was likely designed by a former college room mate of Michelle Obama - total coincidence, BTW - yet these wizards of central planning are blaming a 10% workforce reduction for a trebling of of wait times... Must be those rascally republicans!

  40. TSA insecurity theatre by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

    At some point someone in the USA is going to take advantage of the concentration of people at the checkpoints for maximum mayhem. The most likely someone is another Timothy McVeigh.

    What happens then?

  41. Why people have not signed up for Pre-TSA program by brasscandlestick · · Score: 1

    If most people are like me they do not want to sign up for the pre-TSA screen program because they do not like being treated like criminals by the government. Among other things you must be fingerprinted by TSA and undergo a background check to qualify for the program. Anyone who has previously been arrested, or has served in the military, or has gone through a security clearance check already has been fingerprinted at the country, state, and/or federal level or else has their fingerprints available at all levels of government. The last time I underwent a background check was when I was subpoenaed for service on a grand jury. That was okay, they just confirm that you are not a convicted felon and have no outstanding warrants. Essentially, your name comes back negative in their databases. In this type of program you are assumed guilty until proven innocent. That rubs people the wrong way.

  42. "Contemplate increased wait times as you travel." by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    Worst form of meditation ever.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  43. Re: "Contemplate increased wait times as you trave by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    I shall do just that, during the ample time for contemplation afforded by the longer lines.

    Just make sure you get to the airport early (12 hours before takeoff should be about right) and enjoy a leisurely day in the TSA line.

    President Trump will see this as an opportunity to reduce the deficit by selling snacks and drinks to those in line. Trump brand, of course.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  44. The fee is the problem... by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

    Why aren't people signing up for Pre-Check? Because it's insulting to be asked to pay for something that saves the TSA money. They should be paying US to do it out of the cost savings that they were expecting from the program.

  45. Stil a maroon by s.petry · · Score: 1

    You are complaining about wages that meet what a Police officer makes, without any of the requirements. Wages that are more than double what a person who enlists in the Military. And you try to excuse that with the "dead end" job excuse which can be applied to EVERY POSSIBLE ENTRY LEVEL JOB!

    While we are at it, why is it okay for Government workers to Unionize, but Military people can't? Oh my, there is a convincing argument which translates to ALL GOVERNMENT JOBS.

    I doubt that any of that will sink into your brain bucket. You will probably retort with the same argument again, and I'll simply ignore it. You have not convinced me of anything but your own ignorance and bias and I doubt you ever could.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Stil a maroon by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I think you forgot to hit your capslock. I can feel your spittle hitting the screen.

      I think we can both agree that the PO pay scale tops out much higher then the TSA. I wouldn't call them comparable. The Military is a whole different story. TSA agents don't get paid housing, their benefits are not as good, and they are not as "entry level" as the military. It's apples and oranges.
      I did a quick google search on unionizing the military. I see it's a big conservative talking point. The kind of argument that shuts down everything (because it's stupid).
      You can't compare the Military to any civilian or other government organization. Soldiers actually have more rights and (of course) responsibilities then other Government workers. I come from military family.

      Why is it OK for police to unionize? Why do they refer to others as "civilians" as if they are military?

    2. Re:Stil a maroon by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Soldiers actually have more rights and (of course) responsibilities then other Government workers. More rights? Once you swear that oath you give up all, and that means ALL, protection granted to citizens under the US Constitution. If you have any doubts what so ever, I demand that you enlist, swear that oath, and go tell your boss to fuck off. Tell someone of higher rank than you that you won't do what they say, that you don't like PT, and that your locker is yours and they can't look inside.

      I'd ask you to write me from Fort Leavenworth but you don't have the balls to do any such thing, and are pretty happy with yourself and your gross ignorance. Really easy to talk out your asshole and be wrong.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    3. Re:Stil a maroon by pnutjam · · Score: 2

      UCMJ, Article 138 (Chapter 13), protects a soldier's right to complain and request correction of a grievance against his commander.

      Your other rants are just an asshole being an asshole. You can't get away with that shit in the civilian world. None of it would get you in Leavenworth, just dishonorably discharged. That will warn others that your an asshole with poor impulse control.

      I actually started the procedure to get into West Point, but was bumped because of my poor eyesight. I have brothers who serve and my Father and Father-in-law both retired from the military.

      You should really sit in a corner and think about how you can be a better person, but since nobody is there to make you, you'll just keep being a huge asshole. I'm sorry you have to live with someone like you.

  46. A better idea by thecatt · · Score: 1

    Perhaps they should investigate replacing the TSA with a potted plant, instead.