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EgyptAir Flight 804 Missing (cnn.com)
dark.nebulae writes: An EgyptAir flight disappeared on it's way from Paris to Egypt resulting in loss of 56 passengers and 10 crew members. The plane was flying at 37,000 feet when it vanished shortly after entering Egyptian airspace. It was suppose to land in Cairo at 3:15 a.m. Thursday after leaving Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport at 11:09 p.m. local time. CNN's aviation correspondent Richard Quest said, "Planes just do not fall out of the sky for no reason, particularly at 37,000 feet." He said the plane vanished while cruising -- the safest part of the journey. We'll update the story as more details emerge.
UPDATE 5/20/16 3:57 AM (UTC): Egypt's civil aviation minister says it's more likely terrorism than a technical issue. Greek officials said the plane swerved sharply and plunged from 37,000 feet down to the Mediterranean as the plane left Greek airspace for Egyptian airspace. [Source]
UPDATE 5/20/16 3:57 AM (UTC): Egypt's civil aviation minister says it's more likely terrorism than a technical issue. Greek officials said the plane swerved sharply and plunged from 37,000 feet down to the Mediterranean as the plane left Greek airspace for Egyptian airspace. [Source]
Not funny. Indications are that there was an explosion in flight, but that'd unconfirmed. It's also not clear the cause of the explosiom, if true. That doesn't necessarily indicate an attack; TWA flight 800 exploded because of a mechanical failure. It's way too early to say shit like that.
There are no other alternatives - modern planes don't just break up mid flight and if it had been another pilot suicide the radar track would have shown it descending whereas it simply vanished indicating catastrophic break up. Given the distance from the coast my money is on a bomb, either in the hold or on a terrorist on board.
Getting? First generation Muslims were equally radicalized however then-Europe didn't accept that. Now Europe must accept all sorts of religious nonsense or consider serious fines and even jail time for "hate" speech (even this comment could be construed as such). That and Muslims are breeding out natives by both natural propagation and force, the large cities like Paris and Brussels are no longer safe to the natives, a problem that started only a few decades ago.
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Even if you're 100% not trolling (heh), it's still incredibly insensitive. Would you accept an Atheist posting something like, "Well, they're just hunks of meat and organs now, I don't get why we're spending so much money and effort worrying about something we can't change. They're dead, can't bring 'em back!".
Everyone of every religious creed (and none at all) can be total jerks. Would it be too much to ask to just at least pretend to be sympathetic?
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I only said that God is great. My thought and pray are with the victims and their family. Allahu akbar.
Why are you so racist? ...assuming it meant a terrorist battle cry. You disgust me. Doing Islam apology so early without even knowing the facts.
You know damn well what you're insinuating, and you've been doing it all over this thread. It shows an extreme lack of taste or respect on your part, and what's even more sad is that you apparently have nothing better to do. You're the same kind of person that would think it funny to run around wearing swastikas, but if you'd ever survived any of these conflicts (which you almost certainly wouldn't), it wouldn't be nearly so funny. You're probably among the younger population of this world, and you should be very very thankful you never had to live through something like WWII or the Vietnam War, or the wars in the Middle East. While I don't like saying the gift of life is a waste, you have absolutely no appreciation for how lucky you are that you can piss around and post shit like this all day, without living in fear that this is the last day you're alive.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Why do you assume it's easier to breach security in Cairo than in Paris?
TFA mentioned the tight security at CDG. Did you read TFA?
How many times over the past few years have we seen reports of "rioting youths" in Paris....
How does "rioting youths" relate to airport security?
Learn to love Alaska
.. how we have sent a rocket out of solar system, are planning to transport (and keep track of) bunch of nanobots to Alpha Centauri, but somehow keep losing 40 ton metal leviathans on pansy little Earth.
Second generation Muslims are the ones getting radicalized.
It would be more correct to say that disfranchised, young people in deprived areas are the ones that get radicalised. At the moment this group includes a large proportion of Muslims, but there is no reason to equate the two, for many reasons:
- We have historically seen this happen many times; in the beginning of the 20th century, we saw large numbers of Fascists, Communists and, yes, Conservatives in organised street fighting, we have seen the Suffragettes, and so on - every time there has has been a large proportion of young people who felt they had nothing to lose, and that they had to do something. Religion may have been the excuse sometimes, or idealism of one sort or another. This time there are many Muslims, because that particular group has recently contributed large numbers of migrants into Europe, and it is very hard to grow up as a teenager in between cultures. But it has nothing to do with their religion.
- Although there are many extremists at the moment, who self-identify as Muslims, they are not the only ones; we also have nominally Christian extremists (how absurd is that: 'pro-lifers' committing terrorism offences), there are some that call themselves 'Communists', 'Maoists' or Neo-Nazis. Whatever their ideology or religion, this is only an excuse they use to justify their atrocious actions to themselves.
I think, if we always point the finger of blame away from ourselves, we miss the opportunity to address the very real issues that cause this to happen. We have to accept that the anger that fuels radicalisation is, in fact, very justified, and we need to face up to the fact that we play a big part in creating these injustices. And then we need to fix the problems.
the anger that fuels radicalisation is, in fact, very justified
It's not, or at least it's aimed at the wrong people. The young muslim who wasted his time in faith schools should be angry at his parents for denying him a prosperous European life. The young muslima who keeps segregating herself from her European peers by wearing a hijab should be angry at her family as well. It's not us Europeans who require these things from young immigrants. It's their families' misguided desire to be true to their roots which costs them the chance to be a valued part of the European society. It's not exclusion. It's a failure to join.
Almost everywhere is safe. there are tens of thousands of flights a day, one in a month is odds I'll take. It's better odds than me being killed by some moron in a SUV on my drive to work.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I only said that God is great. My thought and pray are with the victims and their family. Allahu akbar.
Why are you so racist? ...assuming it meant a terrorist battle cry. You disgust me. Doing Islam apology so early without even knowing the facts.
You know damn well what you're insinuating, and you've been doing it all over this thread. It shows an extreme lack of taste or respect on your part, and what's even more sad is that you apparently have nothing better to do. You're the same kind of person that would think it funny to run around wearing swastikas, but if you'd ever survived any of these conflicts (which you almost certainly wouldn't), it wouldn't be nearly so funny. You're probably among the younger population of this world, and you should be very very thankful you never had to live through something like WWII or the Vietnam War, or the wars in the Middle East. While I don't like saying the gift of life is a waste, you have absolutely no appreciation for how lucky you are that you can piss around and post shit like this all day, without living in fear that this is the last day you're alive.
Funny how you excoriate him for his blaming of Islam for what's quite likely a terrorist attack, you then you claim "you never had to live through something like ... the wars in the Middle East", when pretty much everybody on this planet since about, oh, 600 AD or so, has had to live through "the wars in the Middle East", and that's all because of Islam...
I bet you think you're smarter than average, too. Welcome to Lake Wobegone.
My opinion that is the best place to do it and I have been saying that since Sept 12,2001. Highest concentration of victims is in security lines.
Oh dear. You're not on message. You need to be very afraid (terrorists) and concerned (children). You have to big-up the terrorists, exaggerate their capabilities, and greatly exaggerate the danger they pose.
Remember, terrorists use encryption. So don't do that, please.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
There it is AGAIN. A leftist, making excuses for Islamists, and trying to deflect the blame and say the whole thing is the West's fault for being so kind and admitting these people. How many Syrian refugees have Islamic countries taken in? How about a word about them? What is *with* the left-wing alliance with Islamists? Why is there always one to jump right up and defend them? You know they execute homosexuals and legally allow spouse abuse?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Yes, there is undoubtedly some of that.
On the other hand, many people (not you per se) grossly overestimate the fraction of Muslims that are Islamists, in this sense. Partly this is because they are a disproportionately loud fraction, but there is also the deliberate exaggeration on the part of Le Pen, Wilders, Farage, and so on, i.e. far-right nationalists who need "others" for us to fear.
Also, let's not forget that this colonialist mentality you are describing here used to be par for the course for us Europeans for a very, very long time -- and people on the receiving end of it were routinely labelled "savages" for not welcoming and adopting our superior ways.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
There it is AGAIN. A leftist, making excuses for Islamists, and trying to deflect the blame and say the whole thing is the West's fault for being so kind and admitting these people. How many Syrian refugees have Islamic countries taken in? How about a word about them? What is *with* the left-wing alliance with Islamists? Why is there always one to jump right up and defend them? You know they execute homosexuals and legally allow spouse abuse?
Liberals defend Islam because the largest critics of Islam are Christian conservatives--the liberals' biggest boogey-man. If conservatives oppose something, liberals feel compelled to defend it. Additionally, there is the liberal commitment to cultural relativism & multiculturalism. If Muslims want to execute homosexuals, abuse their spouses, or arrest women for not wearing hijabs in photos on the internet, it's because those things are their cultural norm, so who are we to judge?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
On the other hand, many people (not you per se) grossly overestimate the fraction of Muslims that are Islamists, in this sense.
I don't think they do. A small fraction of the highly motivated one commit the crimes. The vast majority of them harbor them, and run interference. They all must go.
"A leftist, making excuses for Islamists, and trying to deflect the blame and say the whole thing is the West's fault for being so kind and admitting these people. "
Leftists also reflexively defended the enemy during the Cold War, but in those days I could see a rationale, since Communism was an exaggerated version of their own belief system. But jihadism is totally opposite to everything our left stands for right now: status of women, prisoner rights, gay rights, worker rights, and use of rape as a standard tactic for exercising power and outbreeding the local population. Our left loves to mock every other religion, but curiously not this particularly bad example of one.
Isn't that also the agenda of Christianity and every other fanatical missionary religion in human history?
With some historical differences.
Both Islam and Christianity are spreading religions. That is, it's a tenet of faith that it's a good thing to spread the faith by conversion. One can compare this to, e.g., Judaism.
Christianity has been spread by both force and by missionary activity. The earliest conversions were almost entirely underground and "bottom up." Many later conversions were "top down". Today it's pretty much universally agreed that conversion cannot be forced and must be personal. Even the most imperialist missionaries of the the 18th and 19th centuries were almost always essentially aid workers as well (building schools, hospitals, etc). Yes, they did have an ulterior motive!
Islam has also been spread by both force and by missionary activity (See the relatively peaceful spread of Islam in e.g. Malaysia and Indonesia). Unlike Christianity, the early and most rapid spread of Islam followed pretty much exactly with the Arab conquest of North Africa through Central Asia, southern Europe through Africa. Islam has historically been linked much more tightly to political apparatus than Christianity--I like to think of it in terms of Islam being a "triumphalist" religion (winning battles and expanding rapidly in the time of Muhammad) versus Christianity as underground of subversive religion--spreading underground through conversion (think even today, the house churches in China). The climax of Islam is Muhammad receiving revelations from god and winning. The climax of Christianity is Jesus being executed for his beliefs and actions. Quite a difference!
Islam has also been much more concerned that Muslims live in Islamic controlled states--not that the polities necessarily have to be 100% Muslim. This is Marshall Hodgson's term "Islamdom." The sphere of the world controlled by Islamic political powers and largely Islamicate (his term, again) in terms of culture, but that may not even be majority Muslim in terms of faith of the population! So historians think that it may have been the 18th century before a majority of Egyptians were Muslim, for instance (after over a millennium of Islamic rule).
In terms of that interesting word jihad, that's widely debated. Some would argue that jihad is never about conversion. I don't believe that. For recent examples, see for instance the area of Afghanistan formerly known as Kafiristan (Lands of the Unbelievers) and now known as Nuristan (Land of Enlightenment) after a jihad of forced conversion in the 1890s. See also the jihads of forced conversion in West Africa in the 18th and 19th centuries. Or, for the matter, the stealing of Nigerian Christian girls and their forced conversion in Nigeria today.
So, that all boils down to, do Christianity and Islam both have as its agenda to "take over the world?" Yes and no :-) I would say that Islamic theology has long had a greater interest in Islamic institutions being in political control than has Christian theology. IMHO, that's one of the reasons Europe was able to overcome religion and secular humanism, the age of reason, and all that good stuff came about.
Notice the lack of anything resembling force in that. "Teach" rather than "subjugate."
Jesus, look at you guys - even your strawmen have strawman arguments now. If you want to know what somebody thinks, try asking them instead of playing your six degrees of imaginary argument bullshit. The first thing you are likely to discover is that (big surprise), people are more complex than 'Liberal' and 'Feminist' and the ridiculous mischaracterized personae that you have built up behind those words. I could type out the epic debate where I utterly trounce a 'Conservative Christian' or a 'Trump Supporter' who just keeps thinking the same dumb shit; but I don't, because that is a cartoon character not a person, and because that would be a masturbatory, idiotic thing to do.
But you guys go ahead and give 'em what for though - everybody's cheering for you! And by everybody I mean all the other fictional characters who populate your papier mache worldview.