Mozilla Releases First Build of Servo, Its Next-Generation Browser Engine (venturebeat.com)

Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 04:48 · Score: 0

Where does Moz get it's money from? Without Google as a sugar daddy I don't see how they pay their developers?

Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 04:52 · Score: 1

Donations and ad revenue from search engines from the built in search box.
Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:31 · Score: 2, Funny

Probably from George Sorros for promoting Social Justice
Re: Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:36 · Score: 0

Adverts of course !!
Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 07:38 · Score: 0

He stopped funding it when they started to go to israel, which led the movement to instantly develop a hatred for jews.
Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-02 12:28 · Score: 0

The US government has ways to shoot some loot to your project if you cooperate with their spying programs. ...Next-Generation? So a brand new code base? no.
Same shit with bullshit excitement name "Servo" that gets scraped on search engines more because the name is not very unique.
The performance is already fine, nobody wants to have a whole OS in their web browser app. Stop building. Make it secure and stop removing privacy features like time spoofing.
When the US government comes up to you and says Hey, we need this "feature" in your software it is part of a National Security directive tell them to fuck off next time.
Re:Funding? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-03 05:45 · Score: 0

> loot
Taxpayer money.

Webkit? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 04:54 · Score: -1

If this is the Webkit version of Mozilla, I want nothing to do with it!

Re:Webkit? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 04:55 · Score: 1

It's a re implementation of Webkit in Rust 2.0.
Re:Webkit? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:30 · Score: 0

It's a re-implementation of Gecko in Rust x.x

stop choking on flash by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 04:56 · Score: 1

If it can stop choking on shitty flash ad panels I'll be happy.

Re:stop choking on flash by Lendrick · 2016-07-01 05:47 · Score: 2

Go into your browser settings and set flash to "ask to activate".
Holy fuck does it make the web browsing experience better.

Refuse to support Rust by MatthiasF · 2016-07-01 04:57 · Score: -1, Troll

I am getting tired of every god damn generation of computer science students making a new freaking programming language and forcing the world onto it.

I will not be using Servo and will refuse to use Firefox (my browser of choice) if they move over to it.

Build your damn software in a standard, mature language and stop wasting your time on new languages that have no purpose other than a bi-line on some PHD student's resume.

Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:09 · Score: -1

I sometimes look at reddit and Hacker News. At those sites everybody praises Rust and anyone who doesn't is down-voted. But here at /. it is the opposite. Rust is intensely disliked here. Why is there such a difference? Is it because people really do dislike Rust at reddit and HN, too, but they are scared to say so because they don't want to be down-voted?
Re:Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:15 · Score: 1

Most of these newer languages force programmers to do things in ways that make them more secure, so that today's crop of programmers can find newer and more creative ways to program security holes into software.
Re:Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:16 · Score: 0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4mEgZMxsWA
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:19 · Score: -1

Maybe it's because there are actual professional programmers who post here, not just some asshole wannabes?
CAPTCHA: superego
Re:Refuse to support Rust by LichtSpektren · 2016-07-01 05:23 · Score: 2

Rust does have a purpose: the power of C++ but with built-in safety mechanisms.

"Just program C++ well and it will be safe," the critics say. Unfortunately in the real world that doesn't happen often enough because not everybody is a flawless programmer. And so, what's wrong with making the tool safer?

Also, in what way are they "forcing the world onto it"? Is somebody holding a gun to your head and making you use it?
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:26 · Score: 0

Less hipsters, that's all.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by sexconker · 2016-07-01 05:31 · Score: 2

Fewer.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:37 · Score: 0

If Rust is better than C++ then why is Servo still so immature even after 4+ years of development? How is Servo ever supposed to compete with Blink or WebKit or Gecko at this slow pace?
Re:Refuse to support Rust by firewrought · 2016-07-01 05:45 · Score: 2

I was going to ream you for choosing your web browser based on its underlying programming language. After all, if you're not having to interface with it as a plugin-developer, what does it matter?
Then I remembered: security. Relying on a human programmer to get every memory allocation and deallocation right every single time has proven to be a security nightmare for the past 20 years the internet has been accessible by the general public. The more safety checks you can push down into the underlying platform/language/runtime/API, the fewer security holes you'll have.
And if you need proof that your standard, mature languages aren't cutting it, look no further than Symantec's recent debacle. If kernel programmers at the world's premiere security firm can't get it right, who can?

--
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:51 · Score: 0

What good is a secure browser if it can't render web sites well? I tried this release of Servo and it is very immature. Security is important but so is usability. A secure browser that isn't usable is useless, I'm afraid to say!
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Yvan256 · 2016-07-01 05:53 · Score: 1

Fewlesser.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Zan+Lynx · 2016-07-01 05:59 · Score: 2

Probably because they were inventing Rust at the same time they were using it to write Servo.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by dunkelfalke · 2016-07-01 06:00 · Score: 2

Stannis? I thought you were dead.

--
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Re: Refuse to support Rust by sexconker · 2016-07-01 06:07 · Score: 1

We haven't seen a body. Same for the Black Fish.
Re:Refuse to support Rust by mlw4428 · 2016-07-01 06:11 · Score: 1

Why not C# then? It's open source, it has a native compiler, why are we doing YANPLTRWOPLHA (Yet Another Programing Language That Replicates What Other Programming Languages Have Already)?
Re:Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:15 · Score: 0

OpenBSD
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:19 · Score: 0

So using Rust has been detrimental to Servo's first few years of existence. But Rust 1.0, the first stable release of Rust, was released over a year ago. Why isn't Servo improving more rapidly now? Why is it still so immature, even though Rust is now stable?
Re:Refuse to support Rust by MatthiasF · 2016-07-01 06:25 · Score: 1

There are these things called libraries, you know... standardized, regularly updated sets of code that provide a reliable platform of functions and features you do not have the experience or time to code yourself.

And then there are these things called Integrated Development Environments that put together libraries for you and give you pointers, wizards, GUI elements and such to help you build applications.

You do not need to build a new freaking language to avoid the pitfalls of being ignorant of how to program properly.
Re:Refuse to support Rust by cryptizard · 2016-07-01 06:31 · Score: 1

You have to learn how to use libraries and IDEs effectively, why not a new language? There are some things that are just a lot easier to fix by changing the language itself.
Re:Refuse to support Rust by MatthiasF · 2016-07-01 06:33 · Score: 1

Security is the most imporant aspect of a web browser. We are all opening files from someone else's computers, allowing scripts to run and connect to any number of other computers. Security is literally the only thing that should matter in a web browser.

Creating a renderer on a brand new immature programming language that has not been around the block long enough for anyone to find it's flaws is a plan for disaster. No way in hell I'd use a browser running on that.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:37 · Score: 0

Security is literally the only thing that should matter in a web browser.
What about being able to correctly render web pages? Does that matter at all?
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:48 · Score: 0

+1 funny
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:51 · Score: 0

^^^ you read my mind.
Theo is one of the greatest people of our generation. IMHO, Theo > Steve woz, stallman, torvalds, etc..
He has consistently pumped out secure functioning code year after year with minimal security holes. And he hasn't sold out.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:54 · Score: 0

Nope.
Obviously the most secure thing to do is simply ignore whatever data arrives from the webserver and tell the user to unplug the ethernet cable, since his OS is written in an insecure language.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Tailhook · 2016-07-01 07:08 · Score: 3, Funny

Why is there such a difference?
Slashdot has devolved into a fetid backwater of malcontent cubical trolls; most of the stories aren't even technical in nature, and the technical stories get the least attention from commentors. Rust isn't some hipster fancy Mozilla is playing with for fun. It's an amazing language developed by brilliant designers over many years and it is attracting a lot of smart people because it offers a great deal to professionals that aren't afraid to learn and aren't threatened by new, better tools. Toxic and irrational people like the GP aren't welcome at Hacker News and they tend to do poorly there.

--
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Re:Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 07:12 · Score: 1

I haven't played around with it much, but Rust doesn't do garbage collection, which is a major feature in my book. It uses RAII instead which means that memory management is deterministic. It's a lot like using C++ correctly.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 07:21 · Score: 0

Rust isn't some hipster fancy Mozilla is playing with for fun. It's an amazing language developed by brilliant designers over many years and it is attracting a lot of smart people because it offers a great deal to professionals that aren't afraid to learn and aren't threatened by new, better tools.
So why is Servo so bad? Why isn't Rust letting them develop Servo faster and better?
Re:Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 07:31 · Score: 1

For the same reason you won't do it in Visual Basic: It would be slow as molasses and eat RAM as if there was no tomorrow. Go ahead, try it. Microsoft have already and it doesn't look nice.
Re:Refuse to support Rust by Tharkkun · 2016-07-01 07:36 · Score: 1

I was going to ream you for choosing your web browser based on its underlying programming language. After all, if you're not having to interface with it as a plugin-developer, what does it matter?
Then I remembered: security. Relying on a human programmer to get every memory allocation and deallocation right every single time has proven to be a security nightmare for the past 20 years the internet has been accessible by the general public. The more safety checks you can push down into the underlying platform/language/runtime/API, the fewer security holes you'll have.
And if you need proof that your standard, mature languages aren't cutting it, look no further than Symantec's recent debacle. If kernel programmers at the world's premiere security firm can't get it right, who can?
Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Symantec didn't purposely allow those bugs to stay. It helps sell more advanced, feature filled copies of their products instead. Oh that malware came through? Better buy the premier edition or you might get infected. There's a reason why my companies virus issues went from 2-300 tickets every couple weeks to less than 10 a week. We switched to McAfee.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Tailhook · 2016-07-01 08:10 · Score: 3, Informative

So why is Servo so bad?
Browsers are hard. I remember the early days of Firefox, then "Firebird." It was terrible, crashy alpha software and completely unusable for years. And that was based on a "mature" language; they weren't developing the implementation language in parallel. The "browser" problem today is an order of magnitude more difficult because a browser is vastly more complex than it was 15+ years ago; browsers must precisely implement a much larger body of legacy and contemporary "standards" and do so with excellent performance on a much larger spectrum of devices.

Why isn't Rust letting them develop Servo faster and better?
Rust only reached 1.0 13 months ago; most of Servo development has been based on a rapidly moving target while trying to hit a rapidly moving target. Other than the fact that Rust isn't miraculous — and no one has ever claimed it is — the current state of Servo doesn't really tell us much about Rust.

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Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 08:11 · Score: 0

Aha, but the malware airgap-hopping via infrasonics already managed to install itself.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:30 · Score: 0

I tried this release of Servo and it is very immature.
Ummm... Yeah, it is. This is, after all, the first nightly build. What the hell did you expect?
Oh, for what it's worth, nightly builds are often badly broken. This is not a reflection on the quality of the software, just the state of the software at the time of that particular build. Ask anyone at any shop that does daily builds and they'll tell you the same thing.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:36 · Score: 0

Toxic and irrational people? Fuck off you god damn faggot!
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:54 · Score: 2, Informative

browsers must precisely implement a much larger body of legacy and contemporary "standards" and do so with excellent performance on a much larger spectrum of devices.
If that were "all" they had to do the job would be much, much easier than it is. The real problem lies in the clause you need to add: "... and also gracefully handle the astonishing and manifold varieties of bizzarely broken, nonstandard, evil, and often just plain utter shit-content that web servers routinely vomit forth when queried."
Re: Refuse to support Rust by yuvcifjt · 2016-07-01 11:07 · Score: 2

I wish I had mod points; Both your comments are well-stated and you seem to be the only mature sensible poster who knows what he's talking about, and not just spitting out swear words without substance.
I've been a loyal Netscape follower and then following Mozilla since they released the source, and I've contributed with bug reports and test cases from the early days of the milestone releases. I switched from using Netscape to Mozilla, even during the unstable and buggy release period.
However, I don't remember Phoenix being terribly crashy or alpha, that was prior to Phoenix was created as a subset of the entire Mozilla-suite (which included composer / irc chat / email / etc).
Nonetheless, you're right about everything else, especially the enormous complexity of modern-day browsers and how the complexity is only increasing.
I think it wouldn't be too outrageous to say that browsers are becoming like operating systems in their own right - in terms of complexity (not necessarily hardware interaction).
And it annoys me hugely when people compare Firefox to Chrome or even Safari, both of which are supported by multi-billion dollar corporate empires, while Firefox is supported by a tiny group of people under a non-profit charity and with only a miniscule of funding.
Yes, people have a right to complain to some extent, but at the same time, need to be grateful and realise who Mozilla is, and how much they've done for us and the open web and pushing everyone else to closely follow the standards!
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 17:14 · Score: 0

It was terrible, crashy alpha software and completely unusable for years.
it was so much better than IE though
Re: Refuse to support Rust by gustygolf · 2016-07-01 18:23 · Score: 1

Browsers are hard. I remember the early days of Firefox, then "Firebird." It was terrible, crashy alpha software and completely unusable for years. [...] The "browser" problem today is an order of magnitude more difficult because a browser is vastly more complex than it was 15+ years ago
You insinuate that they wrote a whole new rendering engine for Firefox alone.
The rendering engine, the largest part of a browser, had already many years under its belt under the Mozilla Suite. You know, the browser/mailagent/newsreader Mozilla were known for before they reprioritised and started drumming up public awareness of Firefox with ads at around version 1.0.
I was a user of Phoenix, which later became Firebird, and after that Firefox.

--
"Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 58 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment" -- slashdot, driving users away.
Re: Refuse to support Rust by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-02 16:44 · Score: 0

> the current state of Servo doesn't really tell us much about Rust
It tells us that Rust is nothing but a sect.

Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha software? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:00 · Score: -1

I tried the nightly earlier this evening. It's very buggy. A lot of sites wouldn't render properly. The scrolling was all buggered up for me.
I think that this release actually reflects really badly not just on the Servo project, but also on Rust and Mozilla.
I mean Rust is hyped as being a lang that makes it bugs hard to create yet Servo, which is written in Rust, is extremely buggy.
I mean Mozilla is an organisation that should know how to create a web browser. It is something they have been doing for many years now.
When I read HN or reddit I see so much hype about how great Rust is and how great Servo will be but now that I've tried Servo I am so underwhelmed.
All of the hype I have heard is wrong. Servo is not the future. Servo reminds me more of Mosaic's capabilities than it does of Firefox's, and Firefox is behind Chrome.
If this is the best that can be done with Rust then I am not hopeful for the future of Rust either!
At this point I think Mozilla should maybe even consider terminating the Servo project.
It is looking a lot like Firefox OS: maybe it sounds like a good idea but it will never go anywhere.
Instead maybe they should focus on fixing Firefox before the rest of its users move to Chrome.
Servo is a big disappointment to me and I don't think it has any chance of being a success.

And... by The-Ixian · 2016-07-01 05:01 · Score: 1

Crow T. Robot is so jealous...

--
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.

Re:And... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:42 · Score: 1

In the not-too-distant future --
Next Sunday A.D. --
There was a guy named Joel,
Not too different from you or me.
He worked at Mozilla Institute,
Just another face in a red jumpsuit.
He did a good job cleaning up the place,
But his bosses didn't like him
So they shot him into space.
We'll make a cheesy browser,
The worst we can find (la-la-la).
He'll have to sit and browse the web,
And we'll monitor his mind (la-la-la).
Now keep in mind Joel can't control
Where the programs begin or end (la-la-la)
Because he used those special parts
To make his engine friends.
Engine Roll Call: (All right, let's go!)
Webkit! (Pan left!)
Presto! (Hi, girl!)
Tom Servo! (What a cool guy!)
Blink! (He's a wisecracker.)

Left a bad impression on me by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:01 · Score: 0

I've just tried it. It has left a very bad impression on me. I know this is an early release, but even for that it is pretty bad. The UI, what little there is, is very glitchy. A lot of the sites I tried, even simple ones, had bad rendering glitches. This feels very amateurish for something from Moz, even if it's still new and experimental. My expectations were low to begin with but it underwhelmed me nonetheless.

Re:Left a bad impression on me by Blaskowicz · 2016-07-01 06:54 · Score: 1

But making a web browser is basically as complex as a whole OS. More like GNU Hurd than a text editor or pdf reader.
This is like a version 0.1 version of an OS where it supports 64 CPUs efficiently and has OpenGL graphics (for Quake and teapots exclusively), but mouse, printing and USB 2.0 support are completely missing, dhcp is broken and the console displays garbage if you try to use color text, to give a silly example of an unimportant feature.
There are many browsers out there but most wrap around Webkit or simply don't support most of the features, leaving only a handful big engines able to run 99+% of the web.
With that analogy Lynx is DOS, dillo is Windows 3.1, gecko is Linux, webkit is BSD, blink is a different BSD, presto is your favorite dead OS, Microsoft Edge Explorer is, er, the worst cable box firmare you've ever used or something :).
Re:Left a bad impression on me by yuvcifjt · 2016-07-01 12:37 · Score: 1

No, it's not an "early release".
Sorry this is harsh, but...
if people are too stupid to understand what an alpha release is, or a "nightly build", then they shouldn't be using it in the first place!
i.e. it's not for the point-and-click community, it's meant as an invitation for developers to sample their work and possibly invite others onboard to contribute code.

Refuse to allow idiocy by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:24 · Score: 0

Build your damn software in a standard, mature language

what language would that be? C and C++ are not "mature", even now the compilers are still not implementing the current spec

The Linux kernel and many other complex programs make extensive use of "non-standard" features in compilers, what good is "standard"

Re:Refuse to allow idiocy by MatthiasF · 2016-07-01 06:30 · Score: 1

How is C and C++ not mature? C has been around for over forty years, while C++ over thirty years ago. Both have literally hundreds of IDEs and libraries built for them, millions of programs written in the language and numerous platforms for compilation.

They are literally the definition of a mature programming language and you toss them out like they are not.

And what do you mean "non-standard features in compilers", if it's a feature in a popular, mature compiler, it's a damn standard isn't it?
Re: Refuse to allow idiocy by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:33 · Score: 0

C++03 is mature and feature-complete in basically every compiler, both new and old. Most all of it will even compile when you set the standard level to C++14. The same cannot be said of rust where language semantics changed significantly over the past 5 years. Mature means not needing to make a new source version every few years as the language changes under you.
Re: Refuse to allow idiocy by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 08:08 · Score: 0

ANSI C, yes.

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by LichtSpektren · 2016-07-01 05:25 · Score: 1

Summary of the above post: Alpha version is buggy and unstable. That means it sucks. All good programs are bugless and stable from version 0.0.1.

Complaints about the UI by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:29 · Score: 1

I see several complaints about the UI. Servo is a rendering engine, not a full browser. The UI included for it I'm sure is just a basic slapped-together UI just to get it functional enough to browse sites. Don't expect much from that UI.

As for rendering incompletely, well it's an early build. Give it time. It already passes the Acid2 test and it will get better with time. None of the current major browsers passed Acid2 when it came out.

Re: Complaints about the UI by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:42 · Score: 0

If they can't do a good job creating something as simple as a basic browser UI with a text input and a few buttons then how can we expect them to create something far more complex like a rendering engine?
Re: Complaints about the UI by Merk42 · 2016-07-01 07:01 · Score: 1

because those are two entirely different things most likely handled by two entirely different people/groups.

Code of conduct by WaffleMonster · 2016-07-01 05:29 · Score: 4, Interesting

While I generally have a positive opinion historically of Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox I find them to be a little two faced at times.

They claim prominently on their website to care about privacy yet make it extraordinarily difficult to configure the browser not to continuously call home. Even when you follow their expansive instructions it still doesn't stop it and the sheer volume of reasons or excuses implemented in the browser and enabled by default is comically mind boggling.

Then there is the matter of "We follow the Rust Code of Conduct." which essentially codifies coddling, censorship and intolerance.

It is nice to see them doing *something* about the ease of discovering exploits in their current codebase. If it works without downsides it will be awesome for users.

Re: Code of conduct by TuringTest · 2016-07-01 06:20 · Score: 1

It has the Mozilla Public Licence, so none of that matters in the end. Ant downstream project fork may choose to ignore the code of conduct and remove the phone home calls. Default settings don't really matter to free libre open source code.

--
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
Re: Code of conduct by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:40 · Score: 0

Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman aside, being open source does not give you license to be a prick to your users who are inherently non-technical people.
Re:Code of conduct by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:01 · Score: 0

While I generally have a positive opinion historically of Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox I find them to be a little two faced at times.
They claim prominently on their website to care about privacy yet make it extraordinarily difficult to configure the browser not to continuously call home. Even when you follow their expansive instructions it still doesn't stop it and the sheer volume of reasons or excuses implemented in the browser and enabled by default is comically mind boggling.
Then there is the matter of "We follow the Rust Code of Conduct." which essentially codifies coddling, censorship and intolerance.
It is nice to see them doing *something* about the ease of discovering exploits in their current codebase. If it works without downsides it will be awesome for users.
Completely agree, they're shady about the users privacy and follow one of the cry baby codes of conduct.
Re:Code of conduct by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 11:00 · Score: 0

If you truly think that the Rust Rules of Conduct "essentially codify codding, censorship and intolerance" then you've been on the wild west of the Internet for far too damn long. No professional organization would tolerate the kind of crap that they "censor" or are otherwise intolerant of, and if you think they're seriously coddling anyone then you'll have to do better than just say so. There's a difference between keeping things civil and on-topic and what naysayers of their Code like to claim. Some people just think it's better to have almost no filter at all then to slip up once in a while and have to apologize (which is draconian and insane).
Re:Code of conduct by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 11:41 · Score: 0

That preferences panel in mozilla is a placebo.
Google also gets every web-page you hit, too...they can't just magically know if the page you are reading is a phish. Face recognition via webcam is turned on by default too. There's some scary shit in about:config
Re: Code of conduct by TuringTest · 2016-07-01 22:15 · Score: 2

Being open source gives your users a licence to ignore you if you're a prick.

--
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.

Best adblocker & more for ANY browser? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:33 · Score: -1

APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus (slows you) + less security issues/complexity. Compliments firewalls (w/ layered drivers blocking less used IP addys vs. hosts blocking more used domains) & DNS (lightens dns load). Gets data via 10 security sites.

Ads rob bandwidth/speed, security (malvertising), privacy (tracking) + anonymity.

Hosts add speed (hardcodes/adblocks), security (bad sites/poisoned dns), reliability (dns down), & anonymity (dns requestlogs/trackers) natively. Hosts != ClarityRay blockable (vs. souled-out to admen inferior wasteful redundant slow usermode addons)

Works vs. caps & HTTP PUSH ads w/ firewalls.

Avg. webpage = big as Doom http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... & ads = 40% of the size.

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/... (Verified by Malwarebytes' S. Burn "I've seen the code & it's safe" http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi... )

Re: Best adblocker & more for ANY browser? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:58 · Score: 0

If it ain't written in Rust, then GTFOH. Everyone knows Rust gets rid of bugs, and we all know your programs have a lot of bugs. It's a win win APK. Program it in Rust or GTFO. :P

Performance and Robustness by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:34 · Score: 0

Wasn't that what they promised when the Netscape browser was Open Sourced to become Mozilla?

Re:Performance and Robustness by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 05:36 · Score: 1

Yes, and it happened. And it happened again with Firebird/Firefox. And now is happening again. Technology evolves and changes over time. Get used to it.
Re:Performance and Robustness by Lendrick · 2016-07-01 05:49 · Score: 1

It was faster and more robust than IE and Netscape by leaps and bounds.
Re:Performance and Robustness by Blaskowicz · 2016-07-01 07:09 · Score: 1

IE5 was great. Fast, low on RAM, rendered all of Web 1.0 as expected, turned into an FTP file manager on ftp:// addresses, displayed a lot of porn pop-ups.

Ad Placement by sycodon · 2016-07-01 05:51 · Score: 1

I hope it can figure out where the Ads are going and how big they are. Then, stop the page from jumping around as they load.

--
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.

Wayland please by Blaskowicz · 2016-07-01 05:54 · Score: 1

Just saying, as far as desktop linux is concerned I'm not sold on "smooth", "accelerated" and "animated" UI yet.
The overhead as well as risks of something going wrong defeat it IMO, unless you have a fast CPU with built-in or recent well supported GPU.

So I'm grudgingly waiting for Wayland of all things, hopefully with good drivers for most cards (nouveau drivers are excused, use them as best effort depending on your hardware/software), hoping it actually works at reducing CPU overhead too, leaving aside desktop environment (xfce etc.) support.
If Servo runs well on unaccelerated graphics or whatever basic 2D acceleration is, then great. If Servo is useful even on VESA driver, remote display, virtual machine then great too.

Logo? by Yvan256 · 2016-07-01 05:55 · Score: 1

What's with the Dogecoin mascot? Did they really think nobody would notice? They can't even come up with their own damn mascot now?

Re:Logo? by Banana+Slamma · 2016-07-01 06:05 · Score: 1

That is more of a meme image than a Dogecoin image, although it is the same. I'm sure the real owners of said image are not aware of it's use here.
Re:Logo? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:27 · Score: 0

?
They didn't take that picture from Dogecoin. It's not even a reference to Dogecoin. It was a popular Internet meme long before Dogecoin even existed. It would make more sense if you complained that Dogecoin can't come up with their own mascot.
Re:Logo? by Yvan256 · 2016-07-01 07:05 · Score: 1

Well, the point still stands, there's still something else using that meme in the technology sector. And with a name like "servo" the best they could pick is that Shibe?
Re:Logo? by Banana+Slamma · 2016-07-01 07:38 · Score: 1

Servo makes me think of either motors or the robot's from the Sims universe. I don't understand the use of that graphic either. I'm sure it is just a placeholder for now.

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:05 · Score: 0

As Mozilla should have learned with Firefox, the reputation that the browser has now will follow it for years to come.
Firefox was initially described as being slow and bloated and it hasn't shaken that reputation even now in 2016.
Even if Firefox is actually faster than Chrome now, Firefox still has the reputation of being the slow bloated browser and lots of people won't use Firefox because of its reputation.
If Servo becomes known as the the broken and buggered up browser then people in the future will still consider it to be broken and buggered up even if it improves some day.
That's the danger in releasing software like this.
Yes it's an alpha release but it has now started giving Servo a bad reputation for being buggered.
They should have waited until it was more mature before doing this release.
Then people could have tried a really good browser instead of a buggered one.
These people would then tell their friends "I tried this fab new browser called Servo and it's great even though it's still an alpha release!"
But now these people will tell their friends "I tried this buggered new browser called Servo and it was very buggered."
I think that this release was a mistake.
It won't even help them find new bugs because the buggered bugs that Servo contains should have been obvious to the devs right away!

C# wasn't free back then by tepples · 2016-07-01 06:22 · Score: 1

I don't think .NET Core was open source at the time Mozilla began to develop Servo. Even if Mozilla were to drop Rust today and migrate Servo to C#, that would still take months.

Re:C# wasn't free back then by mrchaotica · 2016-07-01 07:17 · Score: 1

I don't think .NET Core was open source at the time Mozilla began to develop Servo.
Mono has existed since 2004. Mozilla has no excuse.

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:C# wasn't free back then by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:45 · Score: 0

And how many web browsers have you made, exactly?
For that matter, have you ever used one of the 2004ish-era Java-based browsers (similar technology)? Ugh...

Can't even visit Slashdot with it. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:34 · Score: 0

It redirects to "Taboola" instead. Mozilla should focus on making a Pocket/Hello free version of Firefox instead.

Re:Can't even visit Slashdot with it. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:19 · Score: 0

But Pocket and Hello are free, and open source :)

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by davester666 · 2016-07-01 06:40 · Score: 1

Rust is designed to prevent a certain class of common bugs. No programming language prevents all bugs. If the programmer types in the wrong method to call, or uses the wrong variable, there is nothing the programming language/libraries can do about it.

Currently, Firefox periodically decides to eat all memory on my MacBook Pro, until the OS notices and freezes the app (gets to about 40-50 Gb of swap space). But for days/weeks at a time, it will stay running at about 5 Gb of memory. Maybe this switch to using Rust will prevent whatever problem that is causing all the memory to get gobbled up...

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 06:56 · Score: 0

Currently, Firefox periodically decides to eat all memory on my MacBook Pro, until the OS notices and freezes the app (gets to about 40-50 Gb of swap space). But for days/weeks at a time, it will stay running at about 5 Gb of memory.

That's bizarro. It's been years since I've had memory leaks that bad--do you still use Flash? I'd recommend checking out the developer version of Firefox. It has electrolysis and some other features that handle processes differently and is very stable (I've been using it for the past 7 months and am very pleased). Otherwise electrolysis should be making it into the next main release of FF. You can run the developer and normal FF side by side, so I think it's at least worth checking out.

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by davester666 · 2016-07-01 07:12 · Score: 1

I occasionally run Flash to see some video's, mainly because Firefox doesn't have the option to not tell websites flash in available, but those pages aren't left open very long (watch the video then close the tab). I was considering switching to the nightly build to enable the separate process support (that's the other thing, some pages, particularly amazon and ebay, like to peg the CPU as part of their effort to track what is happening...)

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 07:23 · Score: 0

I should have mentioned: in the URL bar go to "about:memory" (works in regular version of FF) and "about:performance" (shows CPU usage and other stats by tab/add-on, it may only be in the developer edition of FF right now). You should be able to figure out the offending website or add-on that way, assuming it's not a FirefoxMBP issue.

Yeah right. by Viol8 · 2016-07-01 07:34 · Score: 1

" It's an amazing language developed by brilliant designers over many years and it is attracting a lot of smart people because"

Blah blah blah....

Newflash - they said exactly the same damn thing about Java and how it was going to change the world when it came out. Ditto C#. They have their niches but C & C++ still keep on trucking. Don't expect Rust to gain much traction in a rather overcrowded market. Unless it does something that C++ DOESN'T do then not many people will bother to learn it if it gains them nothing. And no, bounds checking and no segfaults isn't a USP. Java does that too.

Re:Yeah right. by Tailhook · 2016-07-01 08:45 · Score: 2

they said exactly the same damn thing about Java and how it was going to change the world when it came out. Ditto C#.
I'd be thrilled If Rust became as important as Java and C#. Those have been hugely influential and important languages. They must have known what they were talking about, and if they are right again Rust will be a wonderful success.

C & C++ still keep on trucking
If the only thing Rust accomplishes is to force improvements to these legacy languages (as it apparently already is) is will be a great contribution. I happen to think it will become more than that, and even as C/C++ continue to evolve and improve, as I'm sure they will, I'm happy, because I have this amazing ability to learn, use and appreciate more than one language.

--
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
Re: Yeah right. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:06 · Score: 0

Its funny that you mention Java, because that's such a great language to program in..
Re:Yeah right. by trparky · 2016-07-01 14:54 · Score: 1

If Rust prevents people from doing stupid shit with their programming code, I'm all for it.
Re:Yeah right. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 15:36 · Score: 1

Newflash - they said exactly the same damn thing about Java and how it was going to change the world when it came out.

And it did. Java is the most widely used language in the world.

Anonymous Coward by puddingebola · 2016-07-01 07:36 · Score: 1, Interesting

Hey, off topic perhaps, but has anyone notice that the number of Anonymous Coward postings on Slashdot taking pot shots at primarily open source projects seems to have dramatically increased? What's with all the snide comments of people who refuse to get an account? I've read one piece of useful analysis in 6 months on here posted under AC. The rest are just cracks.

Re:Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:50 · Score: 0

You see what you want to see. Some of us aren't hypocrites when we talk about maintaining privacy. The snide comments are likely because there is growing resentment with and within the open source community. Increase your score filter and STFU or lower it and learn about views that don't match your own.
Re:Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 14:03 · Score: -1

8===>
Re:Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 16:51 · Score: 0

been here since last century and this place has always been shill central. names don't change anything.

Let's look at what the Rust CoC really says. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 07:38 · Score: 0

Then there is the matter of "We follow the Rust Code of Conduct." which essentially codifies coddling, censorship and intolerance.

I didn't think you were right, so I checked the Rust Code of Conduct for myself.

In there I saw this:

We will exclude you from interaction if you insult, demean or harass anyone. That is not welcome behaviour. We interpret the term “harassment” as including the definition in the Citizen Code of Conduct; if you have any lack of clarity about what might be included in that concept, please read their definition. In particular, we don’t tolerate behavior that excludes people in socially marginalized groups.

You are absolutely right!

The same paragraph that says "we don’t tolerate behavior that excludes people" also states that they "will exclude you from interaction"!

That is extremely hypocritical and contradictory. They say that it's wrong to exclude people, but then threaten to exclude people! And they do this all in the same paragraph!

This policy also contradicts with the part of their CoC that says they are "committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all". The CoC itself violates this policy that it contains, because it makes the threat of exclusion, and threats are contradictory to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment.

Are you sure that the Rust CoC is meant to be taken seriously? Are you sure it isn't a joke?

Re:Let's look at what the Rust CoC really says. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:17 · Score: 0

https://aboveaverage.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/mens-rights-venn-diagram.jpg
Re:Let's look at what the Rust CoC really says. by dave420 · 2016-07-03 20:48 · Score: 1

Aaah so you have a flawed understanding of English and how words work. Trying to find outrage in a list of rules that are only necessary because some people have no idea how to behave in public doesn't exactly paint you in the most flattering of lights.
"To the privileged, equality looks like oppression".

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by Zan+Lynx · 2016-07-01 08:20 · Score: 1

I don't recall how OS X reports memory use but double check the difference between virtual and real. For example, right now my Firefox is using 3.5 GB virtual but only 1.1 GB real. And I've got piles of stuff open at the moment.

Thank you Servo for a new rendering engine by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:25 · Score: 0

This means adding a new column to every comparison table involving Web Browsers on Wikipedia, and every head to head article analysing performance including Servo.

Memory Leak? by iliketrash · 2016-07-01 09:31 · Score: 1

Does Servo leak memory like a sieve like Firefox, causing one to relaunch one or two times a day or watch memory use climb to > 1 GB?

Re:Memory Leak? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:50 · Score: 2, Informative

Firefox doesn't leak memory like a sieve, and hasn't since somewhere around version 7 before they managed to find a miracle cure for the shitty addons of that time. Now you really have to have bad luck to get it leaking memory like a sieve: shitty drivers, shitty addons/plugins, shitty third-party apps plugging into it, etc. Anyone claiming to the contrary has yet to prove it, though they like to bandy the claim about regardless.
Re:Memory Leak? by snadrus · 2016-07-01 12:01 · Score: 1

I don't know if it's a leak, but taking it for a spin through 5 common homepages has this 1-tab Servo at 750mb Real memory and 3.5gb VM size.
But it's also extremely buggy, so normal for a developer preview.

--
Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
Re:Memory Leak? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 17:05 · Score: 1

haven't seen an actual leak in ages and i've been running minefield/nightly as my browser for a long time.
fwiw i didn't even start to see problems until i got up to 1.6 GB with the mess of tabs i have. there are settings for minimizing and reducing the aggressive ram usage and ways to troubleshoot add-ons. good luck

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 09:37 · Score: 0

They should have waited until it was more mature before doing this release.

They promised builds you didn't have to compile yourself by June, and they delivered that on June 30. Everything beyond that is in your head.

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by Cochonou · 2016-07-01 09:40 · Score: 1

Servo is the name of the engine. It's like the current gecko, not many people know about this name.
They will probably release a browser with this engine under another name once it has matured more.

It's written in Delphi/Object Pascal by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:38 · Score: 0

See subject: It doesn't have problems that say C/C++ have (no null-terminated string bs, length is built in for example) & yet has outperformed C++ before too.

APK

P.S.=> It's a GREAT programming language & toolset (I like Delphi XE2 onward which it was 1st created in, & then lately in Delphi XE4 - & there's Delphi XE10 out there now but I don't need it for this program (& it does Win32/64, MacOS X + ANDROID apps even))... apk

The problem is Flash by xororand · 2016-07-01 10:41 · Score: 1

Uninstall Flash

What bug? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 10:55 · Score: 0

See subject: There no bug in it & You won't validly answer as you troll by unidentifiable AC posts!

APK

P.S.=> It's "100% bulletproof & bugfree" as I like to call my work (usually is)... apk

Best adblocker & more for ANY browser by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 11:23 · Score: -1

APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus (slows you) + less security issues/complexity. Compliments firewalls (w/ layered drivers blocking less used IP addys vs. hosts blocking more used domains) & DNS (lightens dns load). Gets data via 10 security sites.

Ads rob bandwidth/speed, security (malvertising), privacy (tracking) + anonymity.

Hosts add speed (hardcodes/adblocks), security (bad sites/poisoned dns), reliability (dns down), & anonymity (dns requestlogs/trackers) natively. Hosts != ClarityRay blockable (vs. souled-out to admen inferior wasteful redundant slow usermode addons)

Works vs. caps & HTTP PUSH ads w/ firewalls.

Avg. webpage = big as Doom http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... & ads = 40% of the size.

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/... (Verified by Malwarebytes' S. Burn "I've seen the code & it's safe" http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi... )

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by yuvcifjt · 2016-07-01 12:33 · Score: 1

Sorry this is harsh, but...
if people are too stupid to understand what an alpha release is, or a "nightly build", then they shouldn't be using it in the first place!
i.e. it's not for the point-and-click community, it's meant as an invitation for developers to sample their work and possibly invite others onboard to contribute code.

At least you're not anonymous, "puddingebola". by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 13:08 · Score: 0

I'm relieved to see that you're posting here with your full legal name, "puddingebola", and that you're not using some sort of a pseudonym. Otherwise we'd have to think that you're posting anonymously, like some sort of a coward!

What is the point of this? by AbRASiON · 2016-07-01 13:44 · Score: 1

I just skimmed the article, I didn't get the impression it will be replacing the engine in Firefox.

Why run the two products? If Firefox is so fundamentally broken (?) then move development over to this new thing? If not, then continue to work on improving Firefox and implimenting the same features.

Working on 2 seems counterproductive.

Re:What is the point of this? by OEasygoDiodoB · 2016-07-04 04:37 · Score: 1

They're in fierce competition with the other browser companies. They can't just stop updating Firefox now because they think they will eventually have something better.

Re: phishing filter by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-01 15:26 · Score: 0

They don't need to get every URL you visit. Read up on hashing and Bloom filters.

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by davester666 · 2016-07-01 17:30 · Score: 1

Normally FF sits there for me as well, around 4 Gb. But every now and then, boom, something in Firefox starts gobbling memory, until the OS winds up pausing FF because the system runs out of swap space (about 50 Gb). I force-quit FF, wait maybe a minute or so, and the OS goes back to 1 Gb of swap space (with 16 Gb of RAM).

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by davester666 · 2016-07-01 17:37 · Score: 1

thanks for these two ffrls. they both work with the regular version of FF. the performance one I can definitely use, as i will have a bunch of tabs open and then something will just kill ff, and I can't tell what tab/s is/are doing it. the memory one will also be useful, but it's not easy for me to notice that ff is suddenly increasing it's memory usage until it's too late (once the OS notifies you somethings up, ff is unusable).

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!

Tom Servo? by khelms · 2016-07-01 17:46 · Score: 1

I'm not sure I want a browser that streams cheesy movies and I can't control when they begin or end.

Re:Why is it so buggy even for nighly alpha softwa by trparky · 2016-07-02 02:06 · Score: 1

Not only that but as Firefox continues to eat RAM like a pig the rendering speeds of the browser fall through the floor. What used to be nearly instantaneous to render takes at least a second of more time to render. You can see how the browser is choking on the memory load.

Next-Generation? So a brand new code base? no. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-02 04:01 · Score: 0

Same shit with bullshit excitement name "Servo" that gets scraped on search engines more because the name is not very unique.

The performance is already fine, nobody wants to have a whole OS in their web browser app. Stop building. Make it secure and stop removing privacy features like time spoofing.

When the US government comes up to you and says Hey, we need this "feature" in your software it is part of a National Security directive tell them to fuck off next time.

Best adblocker & more for ANY browser by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-02 08:03 · Score: -1

APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus (slows you) + less security issues/complexity. Compliments firewalls (w/ layered drivers blocking less used IP addys vs. hosts blocking more used domains) & DNS (lightens dns load). Gets data via 10 security sites.

Ads rob bandwidth/speed, security (malvertising), privacy (tracking) + anonymity.

Hosts add speed (hardcodes/adblocks), security (bad sites/poisoned dns), reliability (dns down), & anonymity (dns requestlogs/trackers) natively. Hosts != ClarityRay blockable (vs. souled-out to admen inferior wasteful redundant slow usermode addons)

Works vs. caps & HTTP PUSH ads w/ firewalls.

Avg. webpage = big as Doom http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... & ads = 40% of the size.

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/... (Verified by Malwarebytes' S. Burn "I've seen the code & it's safe" http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi... )

Best adblocker & more for ANY browser by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-04 01:54 · Score: 0

APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus (slows you) + less security issues/complexity. Compliments firewalls (w/ layered drivers blocking less used IP addys vs. hosts blocking more used domains) & DNS (lightens dns load). Gets data via 10 security sites.

Ads rob bandwidth/speed, security (malvertising), privacy (tracking) + anonymity.

Hosts add speed (hardcodes/adblocks), security (bad sites/poisoned dns), reliability (dns down), & anonymity (dns requestlogs/trackers) natively. Hosts != ClarityRay blockable (vs. souled-out to admen inferior wasteful redundant slow usermode addons)

Works vs. caps & HTTP PUSH ads w/ firewalls.

Avg. webpage = big as Doom http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... & ads = 40% of the size.

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/... (Verified by Malwarebytes' S. Burn "I've seen the code & it's safe" http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi... )

Slashdot Mirror

Mozilla Releases First Build of Servo, Its Next-Generation Browser Engine (venturebeat.com)

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