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Amazon Loses Huge Footwear Company Because Of Fake Products, a Problem It Denies Is Happening (cnbc.com)
Several sellers on Amazon had noted earlier this month that the platform is riddled with counterfeit products and that things have gotten worse after Chinese manufacturers were allowed to sell goods to the consumers in the United States. Amid the report, the German footwear company Birkenstock has announced it will no longer sell its sandals on Amazon. The company added that it will also ban any sales of its products by third-party sellers on Amazon, effectively making its products unavailable on the world's largest online store, according to a report on CNBC. From the report: "The Amazon marketplace, which operates as an 'open market,' creates an environment where we experience unacceptable business practices which we believe jeopardize our brand," Birkenstock USA CEO David Kahan wrote from the company's U.S. headquarters in Novato, California. "Policing this activity internally and in partnership with Amazon.com has proven impossible."
Knockoff doesn't have to mean low quality. Often times the quality is almost as good as the premium name item.
Just saying.
You can choose not to sell your product somewhere, but what legal method is there to prevent others from buying your product and resell them there?
It seems like this approach would just let the counterfeit products completely control the Amazon market for their type of product.
I wonder if Birkenstock is aware of a website called Aliexpress.com... A quick search shows that $20 off retail is much more than one needs to pay for a counterfeit version of their shoes.
BlameBillCosby.com
I've tried to buy a replacement phone battery on Amazon. However, after reading the reviews, I concluded that just about any of the options for buying a battery were likely to result in getting a counterfeit product. Even when it said the product was sold by and shipped by Amazon, reviews claimed to have received counterfeit batteries. I concluded it wasn't worth buying a battery on Amazon because the marketplace is such a disaster from all the counterfeit products. Perhaps it's not as big of an issue for some types of products, but I certainly don't want a counterfeit battery in a phone that costs nearly $700.
...a few years ago for Amazon Marketplace sellers. You had to get special approval to sell some DVD's (roughly with a list price of $25 or more) supposedly because some sellers were offering counterfeits.
TWR
The amount of garbage on their store has made it nearly impossible to find what I'm looking for. I have to use Google to search Amazon's site to get anywhere.
Intel NICs, specifically....unless it comes from Amazon directly, it's more than likely counterfeit.
What will hairy BattleHags do for shoes if Amazon cuts them off from their Birkenstocks!?!?!
TRAGEDY!
why do people pay all that money for clunky sandals?
Perhaps it's not as big of an issue for some types of products, but I certainly don't want a counterfeit battery in a phone that costs nearly $700.
Not a problem if you buy the battery from the OEM. Not saying you should have to and it's typically more expensive but it's always the way to be most certain the battery is authentic. If the OEM can't weed out the fakes then the fakes are probably pretty darn good anyway.
Knockoff doesn't have to mean low quality.
True but let's be honest, it usually does. It's typically hard to make things cheaper without cutting corners somewhere. Some exceptions of course but not many.
Who in his right mind wants to be seen walking around in those embarrassing shoes
Chaco > Birkenstock anyways
Whichever competitor of Amazon's wants to you scared.
Because fake products are EVERYWHERE?
BOO! You're scared now, aren't you?
Simple; do not buy Chinese made products.
I made that choice about two years ago and have greatly reduced the amount of chinese made products which I purchase, perhaps reduced as much as 90%.
Couldn't be happier.
: )
Go on tour and promote yourselves better. Lower your prices to less than what the chinaman sells your very same sand shoes. Have you not heard? Compete is the word!
When you think of fake products, knock-offs and the like, you think primarily of fashion goods, like the Birkenstock sandals in the article. So, when I bought a Black and Decker electric knife recently, I never dreamed there would be a problem. The knife is a piece of crap. It was haphazardly packaged, and will not cut through anything. True to form, when I complained about it, they offered to take it back if I would return it. But then I thought, "What I bought was an errand." Instead of getting a legitimate product, conveniently delivered to my front door, I got a crappy product, and now I have to print out the return strip, repackage it, and then go down to the UPS store and stand in line to have it shipped off. They say they'll pay for the shipping and refund my money, but isn't my time and effort worth something? Why should I have to waste an hour dealing with something that is obviously a fake product? If they can deliver me a glob of shit, they can goddam well come around and pick it back up. Amazon needs to scrutinize their sellers better.
Proverbs 21:19
When I go to Amazon to perhaps purchase something, I go there to buy from Amazon, not some unknown third party. I wish there was an option to disable the entire marketplace listings for my account. If there was such an option, I might shop there more. As it is I barely go there anymore.
I view Amazon now as I have Ebay for a long time, where I go to buy cheap trash I don't really need. And i don't buy cheap trash.
Other well known sellers are becoming like flea markets too, Newegg I'm looking at you. If I go to an online retailer I am going there to buy from them, not some guy on a street corner. That's how it feels now. :(
Summary quotes the Birkenstock CEO as saying "The Amazon marketplace, which operates as an "open market,” creates an environment where we experience unacceptable business practices which we believe jeopardize our brand." It leaves out a later sentence in the same paragraph, which it probably at least as much of an issue as the counterfeiting problem: "It also includes a constant stream of unidentifiable unauthorized sellers who show a blatant disregard for our pricing policies."
Birkenstock wants all dealers to sell at full list - stores were selling on Amazon at a discount, and undercutting other dealers, who were complaining to Birkenstock.
It's just like what Ebay has been for over a decade now. You can not be sure you are buying anything that is real. I used to use the "prime" as a real item indicator, but even thouse are now turning out to be china junk sold as real with a username that even looks real.
"SandiskMemory" is NOT Sandisk... in fact Sandisk does not have a direct amazon store so anyone using the seller name SanDisk is selling china fake junk.
Amazon refuses to fix this because they are making mad profit off of it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I have some sympathy for Birkenstock, but not much. For the amount of money they are asking for essentially a good name, they can spring a few extra coins (or whatever) on holograms or some other identification that shows it's THEIR genuine product.
Other than that, knockoffs are knockoffs and if a customer just wants the design and not the name, they should have the right to buy that if that's what they want.
I can tell you from my own standpoint, I feel a hell of a lot better scuffing up and getting sand in a $10 pair of beach sandals, rather than a $135 pair of authentic Birkenstocks... that may also be a target of theft if someone recognizes them as genuine.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
A few years ago, I purchased what I thought were genuine Nikon batteries for use in my cameras.
Once they arrived, I took a very good look at them and determined they were, in fact, counterfeit.
( They had official looking hologram stickers and whatnot, but were not the real thing )
I returned them and ended up purchasing the batteries through a local dealer instead.
Now, while some will say " What's the big deal ? ", if a problem develops within those batteries and
it ends up destroying your $$$$ camera, you can bet Nikon would tell me " Too Bad for you ". Otoh,
if a genuine Nikon battery does the same thing, Nikon would probably be a bit more sympathetic since
it is their official product that I'm buying.
Bottom line: If I cannot trust Amazon and / or the sellers who operate through Amazon to deliver genuine
products, I will simply cease using Amazon to purchase any of it.
It's that simple.
Amazon owns Zappos. Losing a single fringe-brand wont even be a blip. Amazon certainly wont fold to Birkensmuck. The publishers they've gone toe-to-toe with were Titans compared to some shoe-brand that almost no one has heard of.
The biggest problem raised in the article is the commingling of inventory. Many sellers of products provide the products to Amazon, and they are shipped out of Amazon warehouses. When multiple companies are selling the exact same product, Amazon commingles the inventory, as they consider the products to be fungible. In theory, that's fine. However, if some of the companies are selling knock-offs, you have a problem. People ordering from the knock-off seller have a good chance of getting the real thing and writing a great review. People ordering from legitimate sellers get knock-offs and write terrible reviews.
I've seen a number of products myself where the reviews clearly indicate that people are receiving different products, and there's no way to tell which one you might actually receive.
If Amazon were to fix this one problem, they would be in a much better position to manage counterfeit products.
Amazon gets 30% of everything sold there. There's HUGE incentive for them to let anybody sell whatever they want because:
- 30% is a lot. Last I checked, it was 30% of the sale price AND shipping
- Amazon doesn't make anywhere near 30% on just about everything else they sell, themselves. Much of their stuff is sold at a loss.
Now why somebody would want to give up 30% of the price (PLUS shipping) is beyond me. There are very few things that have the kind of markup it would take to make any money after that huge commission. I suppose that there's always somebody dumb enough to think that if you somehow sell enough stuff for a loss, eventually, you'll make money...?
I don't respond to AC's.
weeding through Amazons listings trying to find a product that is: 4-stars or higher (with honest reviews), a U.S. seller, not a knock-off, free or prime shipping, warrantied by the manufacturer if it's a third party seller, not a third party seller, will fit (clothing), etc.
Birkenstock needs Amazon more than Amazon needs Birkenstock.
All of the Birkenstock wearing hippies will have to buy their overpriced status symbols somewhere else. The horror!
The issue here, really, was that some vendors were actually willing to discount Birkenstock products instead of sticking to full retail price - and that made BIrkenstock's brick-and-mortar and small-web-site retailers cranky. So Birkenstock would rather lose a huge outlet for their products than lose a lot of smaller ones that don't want to compete on price. That's their call. But this is only marginally if at all about knock-offs. This is about competition and price, and Birkenstock is chopping off a venue where shoppers might save a few dollars on shoes so they could spend it on tofu instead.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
As another reply noted you can have the UPS just come collect the thing...
But if you prefer to drop it off in a store, you can just leave it on the counter in the store, you don't have to wait in any lines.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The shoe company's solution to the counterfeit problem is to stop selling their products @ Amazon. Most of their customers will never know they stopped selling their products at Amazon, so the counterfeits will be the only one's available. And worst of all the shoe company will lose money because it will sell less shoes. Not sure this is a wise idea.
Maybe.
But Amazon's credibility is coming under scrutiny, and if they start to lose more premium brands, this will hurt their trusted relationship with consumers over the long-term.
I have noticed that a lot of products and sellers on Amazon lately appear to be "sketchy," and I have begun to consider a.) not shopping there as much and b.) cancelling my Prime membership.
Of course, anecdotal evidence is the best evidence, but I am probably not alone.
Actually I've had a problem recently in that I wanted to get some good Converse knockoffs and Amazon was facing limited supply because of attempts on the part of Converse to crack down on this helpful customer-friendly business practice.
[Birkenstock] added that it will also ban any sales of its products by third-party sellers on Amazon
How can they even do that? Amazon isn't their site, and they aren't even going to be an Amazon seller any more. I suppose what they mean is that they won't sell to resellers who sell on Amazon, perhaps? Good luck with that whackamole game.
I guess we'll all turn to Birkenstock knockoffs! :D
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
The company added that it will also ban any sales of its products by third-party sellers on Amazon
Can they actually do that?
Lev Andropov: It's stuck, yes?
Watts: Back off! You don't know the components!
Lev Andropov: [annoyed] Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!
I find it hard to get worked about about "branding" issues of Chinese knockoffs when most of the "branded" crap is made in China anyway.
Perhaps not in the case of Birkenstocks, which is perhaps why they are the only ones making a fuss over it. Otherwise it seems a tad overly hypocritical...
You get what you pay for. I regularly (every week) order things from Amazon for a variety of electronics and components, their search is fast and consistent. I stay away from lower stars and if I want guaranteed quality (after prototyping), I happily pay 20% more at Mouser or other retailers. I like that when I don't get the quality I need, I ship it back for a full refund where most retailers will charge you a restocking fee even though they shipped you garbage.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Shoes, like monitors, are something I simply can't bring myself to buy over the internet.
Comfort of a specific shoe is such an individual thing, I couldn't do it without trying them on.
-Styopa
Amazon is full of crap listings now. So common to see an item with a normal retail price of $60 in a listing that has the item at $400. It's the ecommerce equivalent of malware.
I stopped using Amazon when I ordered two new Solid State Hard Drives (Samsung 850 EVO - 500GB) for my Linux workstation. Paid for brand new drives from Amazon what I got was 1 new drive and 1 used (returned) drive. If I wanted a USED drive I would have bought a USED drive not a new drive. To make things worse, they sat on my order for two weeks before shipping even tho the drives were in stock, and IF I were an "Amazon Prime" member would have been shipped the same day. Amazon has lost me as a customer, and with their continued lack of interest in the CUSTOMER, I am sure they will lose many more.
Someone I know raises money by making/selling clothing for a charitable organization he's a part of, and there are tens if not hundreds of fraudulent products on Amazon, copying their logos and designs. Amazon has done nothing about it.
Never heard about it before though. Call me back when Adidas or Nike leave.
The Magic Butter Machine company has the same issue with counterfeiting. They do not sell on Amazon, now will they provide warranty support for any items bought on Amazon.com.
As an American citizen, why should I care how much other people (including corporations) pay in taxes? You imply that less revenue for government is automatically bad for me, but there's a problem here, and the problem is that you can't speak for anybody but yourself.
First, the overall size of government, measured in either revenue per capita or power over the people, only increases over time. You can't argue with history. No matter how much power or revenue they have, they always want more. The US government of today absolutely dwarfs the US government of only a century ago.
Next, I don't agree with most of what government spends money on. That was inevitable, given that government only expands in scope throughout its lifetime. So the extra money won't be going to things I support -- they were already doing those things. It will, of course, be going straight to the things I don't support.
So again, why should I feel angry about corporations skipping out on taxes? If anything, that's helping to limit the scope of government.
No it isn't. The reason shoes sell here in the US for $100+ that cost $20 to manufacture is profit, development and (mostly) marketing costs.
First, you seem to have ignored the bit where I said "some exceptions of course". Second, you are completely wrong about the actual costs in your made up example. You are presuming Nike makes the shoes for $20 and sells them for $100. This is incorrect. Nike's gross margins which is basically the cost to manufacture their shoes and other apparel is around 45%. For every $100 in revenue, about $55 of it goes to making their products. Their Net income is around 9-10% which is the amount left over after the costs of sales, administration and overhead and these are not costs that can be dismissed as unimportant. Respectable but hardly in the league of Apple or Microsoft. That means the cost of those shoes to Nike in your made up example is $90 if they they sell for $100. (I'm ignoring dealer markups which are additional) 10% isn't a hell of a lot of margin so if someone knocks off a Nike product and sells it for 15% below Nike, they are below Nike's cost.
The notion that Nike has 80% gross margins is absurd and easily disproved.
No one is selling knock off Birkenstocls on Amazon because Amazon will get a few returns and negative feedbacks and shut down those sales really quickly. A knock-off seller is going to last about a week on Amazon. Their real problem is gray market diversion. They sell their products to mom and pop boutiques with distribution agreements that say "you cant sell our stuff online." 90% of these boutiques run brick and mortar operations that are money losers. They only make money by breaking their agreements with suppliers and selling online and for less than the online retail price Birkenstock is selling the same goods at. Almost every mom and pop store is selling as much as it can online before being shut down. They all do it. Its a game they play with their suppliers. For many people this is their only income.
Manufacturers love the MLM (multi-level marketing) angle of selling to boutiques they know cant actually sell their product out of stores and make a profit while simultaneously competing with their same distributors and selling the product online themselves. Amazon generally will not stop gray market sales without a nice court order.
I'm a lawyer. My bread and butter is gray market diversion cases. I run around the entire planet suing mom and pop boutique stores doing this.
Amazon still owns Zappos and you'll find Birks there. Really, it only helps Amazon because the most known vendor of the shoes is no longer competing with them.
My shop is in a cut throat industry where retail profit margins are %20-30 max. A new machine came on the market and I paid $3000 for it and sold it for $3500, Hey its $500 profit I never had. So some other retailer saw it advertised on my FB page. They complained to the manufacturer. The manufacturer said we don't control prices. Buddy complained about how he wont buy from this manufacturer/wholesaler anymore. Well the wholesaler looked at his history and told him that last time he bought anything from them was over a year ago. By the time buddy phone next week once more complaining I already sold 4 of those machines.
Sooo what I did after that to piss this other retailer even more. I posted a new ad for the machine. Listing it at $4000 with an instant after purchase $500 cash back.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
If you read the highly entertaining book "Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Tactics Behind China's Production Game" you quickly find out that every cent counts when making knock-off's and even genuine products.
The wonky Black and Dekker electric knife comes probably from the real production line (or maybe from a discarded older products mold) but made with much cheaper materials. Cheap plastic instead of glass-fiber reinforced, cheap steel for the knife instead of steel that actually holds an edge. And, certainly, complete unsafe crap for the electronics.
China makes a lot of products. Some very good, some not so good, some downright crap. It's hard to tell which is which, most of the time. Buyer beware.
That's not a knock-off, that IS a Black & Decker. I'm not sure if you think Black & Decker is a quality brand (hint: it isn't).
I have returned small counterfeit or complete no-name imitations that were sold as the real item before. But then I realized that when a seller does that, they are basically trying to scam you and hoping that you won't do anything about it.
After realizing that, I just hit them where it hurts - give them a one-star rating of the vendor/transaction (not the product - remember that there are two different ratings on Amazon), and make clear on the review what the problem was. This will affect their ability to sell on Amazon, eventually.
The only time so far that I've had to do this for a small item the vendor refunded my purchase price and shipping without asking for the apparent counterfeit (and/or used) item back.
So remember, they're trying to scam you and get away with it - act accordingly!
useful AC comment
Good luck trying to bypass the right of first sale. Sure, they could cut off larger distributors from getting more to sell, but they can't ban people from selling a product they already purchased.
...
I read comments some years ago by the head honcho of a company that makes audiophile amplifiers and such. Shortly after they moved manufacturing to China, necessitated by price competition,* he saw knock-offs of their products selling in Hong Kong for much cheaper. I think he confirmed that they were made in the same factory as his.
He also found that the factory(ies) were substituting cheap parts for expensive parts, both in the knock offs and the units his company was paying for.
To prevent this from happening he instituted the following measures.
Several factories manufacture various parts/subassemblies; no one factory has all of them to easily assembly a knock off. All the factories before producing a run for his company, are scrubbed of any other parts and access to the assembly line is 'sealed'. This makes it harder for low quality/cheaper parts to be substituted.** I forget how he handled final assembly. Maybe it was not done in China, which may explain why this is not unheard of.
* IIRC this companies prices were around a few thousand for an amp. Yes, to 99% of people on slashdot, or 99% or more of people anywhere, a few hundred dollars is an insane amount to spend on a complete stereo or mulit-channel setup. (But perfectly understandable if buying the latest Alienware gaming computer that will obsolete in 6 months). In the audio world, a few thousand for an amp is, hmm, not the economy model, but toward the lower price end.
** Flipping that concept around, bartenders have been known to sneak their own bottles of booze in. They sell, say one bottle of their own booze for cash to a customer. Afterword the number of drinks sold with receipts and the amount of the bars booze that left in the bar's bottles look about right...
they can't ban third party sales, that isn't legal. In the US, "right of first sale" means that if you bought it, you own it, and you can sell it to you want.