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Scientists Find Chemical-Free Way To Extend Milk's Shelf Life For Up To 3 Weeks (digitaltrends.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via Digital Trends: Researchers at Purdue University and the University of Tennessee have found a non-chemical way to extend regular milk's shelf life to around 2-3 weeks, and without affecting the nutrients or flavor. The technology they've developed involves increasing the temperature of milk by just 10 degrees for less than a second, which is well below the 70-degree Celsius threshold needed for pasteurization. That quick heat blast is still able to eliminate more than 99 percent of the bacteria left from pasteurization. "The developed technology uses low temperature, short time (LTST) in a process that disperses milk in the form of droplets with low heat/pressure variation over a short treatment time in conjunction with pasteurization," Bruce Applegate, Purdue's associate professor in the Department of Food Science, explained to Digital Trends. "The resultant product was subjected to a taste panel and participants had equal or greater preference for the LTST pasteurized milk compared to normally pasteurized milk. The shelf was determined to be a minimum of two weeks longer than the standard shelf life from pasteurization alone." As for whether or not this method will make its way to store shelves, it won't in the near future. "Currently an Ohio-based milk processor is using this technology and distributing the milk," Applegate says. "The unit is approved for processing milk in Ohio and distribution nationwide. The product is currently being distributed, however it has not been labeled as extended shelf life milk. Once the commercial application is validated the milk will be labelled with the extended shelf life." Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates.

258 comments

  1. unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unpasteurised milk is way better but most people cant handle this stuff now-days.

    1. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right. Raw, or unpasteurized milk, is much better. It builds a strong healthy body.

      And raw milk has an infinite shelf life. And it does not need to be refrigerated. It will eventually sour, turn into yoghurt, then curds&whey, and you can strain it to make cheese. But it never goes bad. You never have to throw it out.

      I have drank raw milk since 2011, and it has kept me strong and healthy. I have kept raw milk in glass jars for over a year. Sometimes it gets sour, sometimes it gets bitter, but it never goes "bad", and it never has to be thrown out.

    2. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      They applied the process to pasteurized milk inoculated with Lactobacillus and Pseudomonas bacteria, and those bacteria were eliminated without affecting taste. Tests with unpasturized milk have not been done yet. So at this point this is about pasteurized milk with an extended shelf life, although the process needs to be validated before they start labeling the mik as having and extended shelf life.

    3. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      "Sometimes it gets sour, sometimes it gets bitter, but it never goes "bad", "

      Err, the sour and bitter taste is a clue that is HAS gone off.

    4. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. Straight from my wife's teat.

    5. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by mrbester · · Score: 2

      No it isn't, you just need to get licenced and declare BIG SCARY NOTICE of "CONTAINS RAW MILK!!!11one" on any products that you manufacture using it to protect the weaklings of the herd.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    6. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That depends on the country in the EU. All countries implemented the law slightly differently. There is a strict ban where I live.

    7. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 1

      > bitter taste

      Bitter is the taste of poison. That's why it makes you cringe.

      Yes, sometimes the system doesn't work well, like coffee, or antifreeze.

      In any event, I get three weeks out of bagged milk all the time, I'm not sure I need another way to do that.

    8. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is even illegal to sell unpasteurized milk in most of EU.

      Depends on how & where. For example: I'm pretty sure most dairy farmers in my area will be happy to have a meet & greet with one of their end users, tap a few litres into a bottle, and take ~3x the wholesale price they are getting from factory.

      That's unpasteurized milk, full fat, straight from cow -> cooling tank -> end user's fridge (leave it there overnight to skim off the fat). As has been done for ages regardless what EU rules say about it. Thankfully EU bureaucrats haven't rotted everyone's brain.. yet...

    9. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Raw, or unpasteurized milk, is much better.

      There's absolutely no evidence for that. In fact incidents of food-borne illness are significantly higher for practitioners of the new-age "raw milk" psycho-babble.

      It will eventually sour, turn into yoghurt, then curds&whey, and you can strain it to make cheese. But it never goes bad.

      If I want a glass of milk, but instead get a cup of sour curds, the milk has gone bad. It's never going to be good milk again.

      If you want a long shelf-life, just FREEZE it. It'll last for many months. You just need to give it a few days to thaw out, and a few vigorous shakes along the way.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    10. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Maritz · · Score: 0

      I have drank raw milk since 2011, and it has kept me strong and healthy.

      OK. You don't know that. I appreciate your fetish for fucked up smelling gloopy milk, which of course you're welcome to - but that's the bit that you seriously do not know.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    11. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Way better in what way? Taste? Flecks of cowshit? Bacteria?

      I could possibly see taste being affected. Very slightly. Certainly not enough to justify the heightened risk of food poisoning.

    12. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Right...

    13. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by DrXym · · Score: 1

      I freeze milk and bread. Works out pretty handy to have some spare around although as you say it takes a while to defrost. About the only thing to be wary of is milk expands when frozen so best to defrost in a sink in case the container split.

    14. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by quenda · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nah, try dogs milk.
      Nothing wrong with dog's milk. Full of goodness, full of vitamins, full of marrowbone jelly. Lasts longer than any other milk, dog's milk.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    15. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I am curious if we we have scientific evidence of this. (Not necessarily that it is better, but it tastes different).
      Or is it that most Pasteurised milk is also Homogenized (To prevent separation of the cream, with the rest of the milk.)
      Or perhaps that most of the time Pasteurised milk sold in the store may had been sitting on the shelf for a few days longer.

      As with many of the Natural Food and Non-GMO food people. There is little science behind their claims but are basing it of an emotional response towards it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    16. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where is that?

    17. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Baloney. My ancestors grew up on raw milk. As long as you keep the farm clean and the cows healthy it is safe. Here, industrial scale, who knows.

    18. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or from your dog's teat. Or your daughter's teat. Or your teat. Teats are treats!

    19. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not where I am but I usually warn my friends form other countries to stay away.
      Best stuff is so called "cow warm" milk. Just milked and not cooled.

    20. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > As has been done for ages regardless what EU rules say about it. Thankfully EU bureaucrats haven't rotted everyone's brain.. yet...

      +1!

    21. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before refrigeration (or, ice boxes), our ancestors were lucky to live to 30.

    22. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your ancestors also, most likely, had much shorter lifespans and much higher infant mortality, in a large part because of non-hygenic practices like drinking raw milk.

    23. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by CreatureComfort · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whey better...

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
    24. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your ancestors also drank that milk typically the same day if not within hours of milking, leaving little time for bacteria to grow. Most modern milk drinkers don't live anywhere near a milk cow and may purchase milk days after it was produced. They probably also got sick from listeria at least once but lucked out with mild symptoms.

    25. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baloney. My ancestors grew up on raw milk.

      Or at least the survivors did.

    26. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mouse's milk. I hear it sells for over $300 an ounce. Got to be way better.

      Course, finding a low enough milking stool...

    27. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      please stop selling liquids in bags.

    28. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bread: Pack frozen bread as individual slices each in their own ziplock sandwich bag (they're like 1cent or less apiece). Wrap slices of frozen bread in wet (but not dripping wet) paper towel and microwave for 45-55 seconds. Water in towel turns to steam, bread thaws without getting dried out. Or put frozen bread directly into the toaster. One caveat: Be careful buying too many sandwich bags with traceable currency (credit card). Apparently drug users use them too, and police data-mine to see who can't prove their innocence.

      Milk: Put frozen milk in ziplock bag to defrost, and ideally put the ziplock into a pot. BUT defrost in fridge to keep the milk from spoiling prematurely.

      Freezing also works quite well for cheese.

    29. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      It's illegal in my state, but I've got a friend who even skips the cooking tank. Cow, bucket, you take it home and then it hits the fridge.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    30. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back then, the time between milking the cow and consuming the milk, or baking something with the milk, was how long again?

      Today, how long does it take to collect milk, transport it, refine it, distribute it to stores? How long does it sit in the store before being bought? How long does it stay in your fridge before you finish consuming it?

      Our ancestors didn't have much in the way of refrigeration. Movies from less than a century ago show folks, the well to do, buying ice and keeping it in a wooden cabinet for refrigeration. The poor had even less.

      And our ancestors tended to die early. How many children didn't make it until age 5?

      As for "who knows"? Well, there's a lot of folks really, backed up by medicine & scientific studies. That's why we pasteurize milk!

    31. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      True, but that was when you lived literally right next to the farm and the milk had a transit time of at most a day or two, usually only changing hands once or twice (farmer to consumer or farmer to store to consumer) and at most changing containers a handful of times (bucket, milk can, jar). As you mentioned today we have industrial milk production, so in most cases it literally changes hands a dozen times (farmer, tanker, processor, trucker, distributor, trucker, store, consumer, etc), has milk from multiple farms, takes days to weeks to reach the consumer and is put in dozens of different containers (farmer tank, tanker, initial holding tank, pasteurization tank, second holding tank, milk carton/jug machine, storage room, truck, another storage room, consumer), all of which increase the likelihood of harmful bacteria being introduced and being given time to grow. If you're buying straight from a well managed farm unpasteurized is probably just as safe as store bought, but in the standard consumer chain pasteurization is probably a pretty good idea.

    32. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your style, I like it.

    33. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thaw your bread by standing it up on a plate and put it in the microwave for 20 seconds. It'll come out unfrozen and not dry.

    34. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liquids expand when frozen, to be more generic.

    35. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      Pasteurization is required mostly because industrial dairy farming is incapable of maintaining the cleanliness level necessary to go without it. They can't keep dirt and manure out of the milk.

    36. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, our ancestors grew up on raw milk, but they also died of old age and fear at the ripe age of 24.

    37. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by haruchai · · Score: 2

      "non-hygenic practices like drinking raw milk"
      pretty sure not washing hands properly after wiping arse killed more ancestors than raw milk

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    38. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Pahroza · · Score: 2

      Can you milk me, Greg?

    39. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. Most liquids contract when they freeze. Relatively few substances, such as water, silicon, and antimony, expand when they freeze.

    40. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I sure they did. But proving it didn't make them ill at one point or another, or kill any of your ancestors' siblings is a different matter, and odds are it would have.

    41. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite possibly, but washing hands and pasteurising milk aren't mutually exclusive options.

    42. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by anarcobra · · Score: 1

      How can unpasteurized milk be illegal?
      That's like making raw eggs illegal.

    43. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the summary is even worse than usual

    44. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Darkinspiration · · Score: 1

      Why it's cheaper then plastic jug. And as long as it's not punctured it an acceptable container.

    45. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Better how? I've tried, it was meh. I am generally not a fan of fresh milk, preferring sour milk products instead, but raw milk was even worse than normal pasteurised milk.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    46. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They made men marrying girls illegal pretty much world wide, but you don't question how that occurred; instead you fully support it and wish destruction upon the few remaining places where it is not so.

    47. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your ancestors also married female children.

    48. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by kimvette · · Score: 1

      > That's right. Raw, or unpasteurized milk, is much better. It builds a strong healthy body.

      It tastes better, that's for sure, but whether it is actually better has not been substantiated. There are however major health risks associated with raw milk from cows in factory-style dairy farms.

      I like raw milk but unless it's from a small farm verified to maintain proper health of each individual cow, I'd prefer to stick with pasteurized because without knowing the farmer's methodologies personally how can you verify the safety?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    49. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      You would likely be incorrect. read the old USDA Yearbook of Agriculture reports that show how many cows and dairymen were infected and how rampant tuberculosis was in your supposedly pristine raw milk.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    50. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      That's right. Raw, or unpasteurized milk, is much better. It builds a strong healthy body.

      I drank it for a year or two, as a member of a "cow share" cooperative. I didn't re-up the last time, so I don't drink it any more.

      The next best thing is the pasture-fed "organic" (hormone free) milk from the grocery store. Interestingly, that stuff normally comes "Ultrapasturized", and the shelf life on it is at least 4-5 weeks. So I'm not sure what advantage this process brings.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    51. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      There's absolutely no evidence for that. In fact incidents of food-borne illness are significantly higher for practitioners of the new-age "raw milk" psycho-babble.

      Thanks for repeating our propaganda. We'd send you a check for your support, but we sent all our money to the FDA and the former FDA administrators that now have positions on our board.

      --- Signed, The Corporate Dairy Council

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    52. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      This.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    53. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I have drank raw milk since 2011, and it has kept me strong and healthy.

      OK. You don't know that. I appreciate your fetish for fucked up smelling gloopy milk, which of course you're welcome to - but that's the bit that you seriously do not know.

      You should try it some time. If you're used to the watery, ultra pasteurized, hormone-laden milk from factory cows caged and injected with chemicals and bacteria, you may not know what milk is really supposed to taste like. It's really very delicious, smells wonderful, and is actually creamy, not gloopy.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    54. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by haruchai · · Score: 1

      I think there's much more nasty stuff that passes the fecal-oral route than you'd likely get from raw milk

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      That said, I do NOT drink or eat unpasteurized dairy

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    55. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by publiclurker · · Score: 1

      non-industrial farming isn't really any better It's just that with them one contaminated gallon isn't mixed in with thousands of gallons of good milk and distributed all over the place.

    56. Re: unpasteurised milk is way better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But tectonic hydrogen milk is much cooler

    57. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Your conspiracy theory fails on numerous counts:

      It's fact, not propaganda that "Raw milk causes more than half of all milk-related foodborne illnesses in the United States, even though only about 3.5 percent of Americans drink raw milk".

      Your grand conspiracy doesn't involve just the FDA, but instead a multitude of research institutes, like Johns Hopkins, whose scientific findings, across the board, shows significant dangers from drinking raw milk:
      - http://www.webmd.com/food-reci...

      Here's just a few pages of references you can read through:

      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...
      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...
      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...
      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...
      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...
      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...
      - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/v...

      The dairy council doesn't pay out any money to the CDC, and they're the ones who are warning the public about the dangers of raw milk:
      - http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/...

      The Dairy Council is a piss-poor choice as a Bond-villain... It isn't remotely as big, rich, and powerful as the many other organizations and industries that public health authorities have put the kibosh on. Think "Big Tobacco" in comparison to "Big Milk". Except milk is trivial to render safe, while tobacco is not.

      The Dairy Council could make just as much money from raw milk as it does from pasteurized, so there's little or no motivation for them to launch an expensive grand conspiracy.

      In short, you're just like any other run-of-the-mill nut-job. Instead of UFOs, vaccinations, fluoridation, or HAARP, your preferred pseudo-scientific nonsense based around raw milk.

      Feel free to do your own searches and give me a list of studies which have shown health benefits from raw milk, and NO additional danger from it's consumption, unlike EVERYTHING I just linked you to... I'll be waiting for your pages and pages of citations in response.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    58. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      It's fact, not propaganda that "Raw milk causes more than half of all milk-related foodborne illnesses in the United States, even though only about 3.5 percent of Americans drink raw milk". Your grand conspiracy doesn't involve just the FDA, but instead a multitude of research institutes, like Johns Hopkins, whose scientific findings, across the board, shows significant dangers from drinking raw milk: - http://www.webmd.com/food-reci... [webmd.com]

      I suggest you Google about webmd and their funding (big pharma) and propaganda (promotions from grants). WebMD is paid by the FDA, which receives its funding from big pharma and, yes, the corporate farming lobby. So by posting propaganda from WebMD, you're supporting MY argument, not your own.

      The article you linked was not a study, did not link to any study. It was a (poorly done) article about a report prepared for politicians (who, of course, have an agenda). There is no link to the report, no reference to the "81 studies" that the "researchers" selected to support their position (a conclusion that they were paid to support). No science there at all.

      All the actual peer-reviewed articles you posted referred to raw-milk cheese, and mostly specific anecdotes of specific outbreaks, and primarily outside the US. So, pretty irrelevant, especially considering that any process where you INTENTIONALLY GROW BACTERIA can certainly go wrong in many ways.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    59. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by evilviper · · Score: 1

      WebMD is paid by the FDA, which receives its funding from big pharma and, yes, the corporate farming lobby.

      WebMD only re-posted a press release. They had nothing to do with the study. It was done by Johns Hopkins.

      There is no link to the report,

      So because it will take a non-trivial amount of effort for you to find, it doesn't exist, and therefore can be dismissed out-of-hand?

      All the actual peer-reviewed articles you posted referred to raw-milk cheese,

      That's complete nonsense. Some do refer to cheese, but many more do not.

      You're clearly a sick, sick man, and should seek professional psychiatric help as soon as possible.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    60. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      You're clearly a sick, sick man, and should seek professional psychiatric help as soon as possible.

      I prefer the term "crackpot". Thank you very much, sir.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    61. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Nah, try dogs milk. Nothing wrong with dog's milk. Full of goodness, full of vitamins, full of marrowbone jelly. Lasts longer than any other milk, dog's milk.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      once you've gotten the little milking stool set up under a dachshund, it's all pretty easy.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    62. Re:unpasteurised milk is way better by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      I was dating a hippie chick who wanted to get into the unpasteurized milk thing so we bought some from the local co-op. It tasted sorta gamey and weird, fully unpleasant. Ironically we ended up using it to make waffles and bread since we couldn't stand drinking it after the first glass.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
  2. uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    What does hydrogen found under tectonic plates have to do with milk pasteurization? Is this some kind of reading proficiency test?

    1. Re:uhh by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that doesn't have anything to do with this, and the article is literally directly below this one if you cared anyway. Why do they keep appending these end bits referencing other articles?

    2. Re:uhh by Calydor · · Score: 2

      The references make sense if they're related subjects, but the only connection is 'scientists' this time.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    3. Re:uhh by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

      Because those are articles from the same poster.

      Have you see my interesting comment on the previous article here about the takedown policies?

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    4. Re:uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, there's one other connection; BeauHD. He's the only editor who adds retarded shit like that at the end of a story.

    5. Re: uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Duh - where do you think raw milk comes from?

    6. Re:uhh by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Both stories directly relate to events on planet Earth.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    7. Re:uhh by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. And the editor failed it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:uhh by sensei+moreh · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm a geologist and I drink milk. But how the editors knew of that connection, is beyond me

      --
      Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
    9. Re:uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What does hydrogen found under tectonic plates have to do with milk pasteurization?

      Obviously, the Duke researchers were drinking MILK when they made their discovery!

      "Milk - it does a scientist good!"

    10. Re:uhh by fox171171 · · Score: 4, Funny

      What does hydrogen found under tectonic plates have to do with milk pasteurization? Is this some kind of reading proficiency test?

      Both articles contained the word "University".

    11. Re:uhh by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Hydrogen powered cows?

    12. Re:uhh by SCPaPaJoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's just stop calling them editors. Their just super users who can post articles. They probably just post in between captures on Pokemon go. No time to read the submissions.

    13. Re:uhh by dave420 · · Score: 1

      The definition of editor is "person responsible for the final content of a publication", so "super users who can post articles" is precisely a type of editor. Whether they do a good job or not is a different issue, but the role's name of "editor" is perfectly apt.

    14. Re:uhh by Nikkos · · Score: 1

      I'm 99% sure it's an AI adding this shit to the posts.

    15. Re:uhh by WallyL · · Score: 1

      They've already replaced BeauHD with an AI?! That escalated quickly.

    16. Re:uhh by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I, for one, think somebody confused methane for hydrogen. Maybe that should be reversed... Anyway, something about cow farts...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    17. Re:uhh by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      The references make sense if they're related subjects, but the only connection is 'scientists' this time.

      Could be the "fast-spreading tectonic plates" as that's the best place to drill for milk.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    18. Re:uhh by war4peace · · Score: 1

      They asked the NSA.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    19. Re:uhh by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Maybe the result of consuming milk processed with this new technique is similar to hydrogen formation from plate tectonic activity.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    20. Re:uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Soviet Amerika, tectonic plate milks you. -PCP

    21. Re:uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Off-by-1 error in copy-paste.

    22. Re:uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it is related to the..umm...related links at the bottom of the page which are always just as relevant.

      yup, it's getting old already

    23. Re:uhh by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      It's not an AI, unless there's been major breakthroughs in the field of Artificial Idiocy.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    24. Re:uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that is completely uncalled for and shows a complete and utter lack of understanding. Editors work hard and devote their lives to the thankless task of vetting articles for the Slashdot audience, and OH MY GOD I GOT MEWTWO

    25. Re:uhh by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      What does hydrogen found under tectonic plates have to do with milk pasteurization? Is this some kind of reading proficiency test?

      that was just his sig.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    26. Re:uhh by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Both stories directly relate to events on planet Earth.

      perhaps we can also extend then storage life of hydrogen by increasing the temp by ten degrees for a munute

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    27. Re:uhh by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      The references make sense if they're related subjects, but the only connection is 'scientists' this time.

      Could be the "fast-spreading tectonic plates" as that's the best place to drill for milk.

      1) many people drink milk
      2) many people live on a tectonic plate

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  3. FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Jeez .. are you just adding links to the end to stories just for the hell of it? WTF does the hydrogen one have to do with milk in the first place?

    It's doing shit like this that pisses off regulars and drives people away. Just check out how people felt about the last lot of overlords.

    The only conclusion I can come to is that you are Timmmmah in disguise (albeit a bad one). So quit making a fool of your self and just leave well enough alone.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he automated his job and we're all talking to a small shell script.

    2. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what? you do not like Slashdot 10?

    3. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a job for... Whipslash! Oh wait, I haven't seen him post in weeks. I guess there must be a soul-sucking black hole at the heart of /. after all.

    4. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by evilviper · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe he automated his job and we're all talking to a small shell script.

      Proof: http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-...

      And more: http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    5. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by arth1 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Indeed. It's pathetic. I wonder why the new owners keep the useless "editors" around? They could easily be replaced by a script that scrapes a few articles from two days ago reddit while they wait for the next paid-for shilling article.

      I remember when all for one welcomed the new insectoid overlords. manishshshshs promised a lot of changes, and said he listened. Well, reality probably struck, because exactly none of the changes to the better have occurred.

      I didn't think it would be possible, but current day slashdot is in slightly worse condition than at the end of the DICE era.

      Is slashdot up for sale yet?

    6. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by pellik · · Score: 1

      Maybe he meant to add that link to the story below this one that is about hydrogen.

    7. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been saying this. That's exactly what has happened. With the rubber stamping of submissions, most of which come from one submitter, and the unrelated links added to everything it's obvious no human intervention is involved in any of it. Our overlords are code.

    8. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by dwillden · · Score: 1

      That link is to the story immediately below this one. As bad as the editors are I doubt he meant to add that link to the story below to the story below.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    9. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      The only conclusion I can come to is that you are Timmmmah in disguise (albeit a bad one). So quit making a fool of your self and just leave well enough alone.

      Maybe he recently joined the American Non Sequitur Society.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    10. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by Nemyst · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I didn't think it would be possible, but current day slashdot is in slightly worse condition than at the end of the DICE era.

      I have to ask... what? They've removed a lot of the crap DICE was attempting to pull, editing quality has improved somewhat, the comments section now supports partial Unicode (— éèêç etc.), I see fewer completely wrong submissions, and so on. Sure, there could be even more improvements, but to say that it's worsened is blatantly untrue.

    11. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by arth1 · · Score: 0

      I have to ask... what?

      More ads, more attempts at thwarting adblock, more submissions that are just blatant copies from reddit/ars, more submissions that have absolutely nothing to do with "News for nerds, stuff that matters". "Slow down, Cowboy" is worse than before, blocking legitimate users from posting for hours. "It has been 11 hours since your last post, please slow down to give others a chance to post" is not constructive.
      Moderator points are worse than before, with points handed out at a way too high rate. This causes polarization, with more +5 articles and more -1, but fewer in-between.

      And I don't see much fixed either.
      Unicode is still broken despite what you say -- even if some ISO-8859-1 characters are now unfiltered, they're not unicode.
      Back button / backspace still doesn't return you to where you were -- when you try to navigate back, javascript reloads and relocates you at the top (in order to display more ads). This makes following links a big pain.
      Lists (which are listed under "Allowed HTML") are still broken.
      apk is still posting his spam.

    12. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by gnunick · · Score: 2

      Yesterday I ridiculed someone for complaining about an [un]related article link, because one line at the bottom of a summary seemed like such a stupid thing to complain about. It's still think it's a stupid thing to complain about. Why would this drive anyone away? I'm sure most of the people who would be driven away by stupid things said on slashdot would have left after their first visit.

      But I have to concede that this was the stupidest, completely un-related "related" link I've seen yet. I almost felt inspired to complain, myself.

      Perhaps the "HD" in "BeauHD" is meant to imply that Beau is the Definition of "High"?

      P.S. OzPeter, To answer your second question, milk is mostly water, and water is mostly (by atomic proportion) hydrogen. :D
      P.P.S. Yes, I'm Slashdot too. Nice to meet ya.

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
    13. Re: FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you meant all of THAT stuff...

    14. Re:FFS Beau skip adding the additional links by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      The only conclusion I can come to is that you are Timmmmah in disguise (albeit a bad one). So quit making a fool of your self and just leave well enough alone.

      Maybe he recently joined the American Non Sequitur Society.

      ice cream has no bones.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  4. what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates."

    This surely helps to preserve milk.

  5. Milk Storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So how long is the shelf life when the milk is mixed with hydrogen? Really, self-leveraging is a form of masturbation. The page hits might look better, but it degrades the site as a whole.

  6. Unpasteurized milk production by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is even illegal to sell unpasteurized milk in most of EU. Some old delicacies used it and may also no longer be manufactured

    I'm pretty sure unpasteurized milk is "manufactured" constantly since that's how it comes out of the cow...

    1. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nah, in the EU we heat our cows to 70C routinely.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by sjbe · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nah, in the EU we heat our cows to 70C routinely.

      Damn you global warming!

    3. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there is such a thing as "good bacteria" but never mind, this process will kill it all. sterilizing away most of the nutritional benefit.

    4. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's just 'cause these dumb animals start to evaporate when you heat them.

      But there's hope, the EU is about to make bovine exhaust filters mandatory.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been able to buy it in both EU countries I have lived in. Where is it illegal?

    6. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by sjbe · · Score: 3, Funny

      But there's hope, the EU is about to make bovine exhaust filters mandatory.

      Is that a euphemism for putting a muzzle on Trump?

    7. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there's hope, the EU is about to make bovine exhaust filters mandatory.

      But don't worry--you can fake the exhaust filter test results so that they only work while testing, but don't do a thing out in the field.

    8. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      That sounds like inhumane treatment to me... Would be better if it was just their udders.

    9. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cows in Arizona & Texas are born at 70C

    10. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by careysub · · Score: 1

      there is such a thing as "good bacteria" but never mind, this process will kill it all. sterilizing away most of the nutritional benefit.

      Because protein and calcium are unimportant sources of nutrition in milk? These are unaffected by pasteurization.

      What "nutrients" are actually lost? Do tell.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    11. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by WallyL · · Score: 2

      Are those spherical cows?

    12. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Do you not know how bioavailability works?

      Many of those bacteria help us digest stuff we lost the ability to digest after infancy.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    13. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, Alex, you got owned yet again. How in the hell can you be wrong so often?

    14. Re:Unpasteurized milk production by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yup. But they didn't take into account that it only works in a vacuum.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I'm not wrong, he overthought my very fucking simple statement, much like you over-run your loud fucking mouth.

      By the way, a couple of your pals ratted you out to me. Looks like they got sick of you.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    16. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by cthulhu11 · · Score: 0

      Bovine milk fed to adult humans leads to a net loss of calcium, and most in the US get too much protein as it is. If you're dead set on drinking someone's reproductive fluids, drink your own.

    17. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. You got set straight by someone with a lot more knowledge than you. But with all of your emotional problems you are unable to admit this. If you could even once admit being wrong it would be a great breakthrough. Source: I am a trained psychologist.

    18. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still waiting for you to tell me who I am. I mean, my pals ratted me out, right? Again, little Alex, your psychological problems manifest themselves through your continual lies. Get professional help.

    19. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Alex? He acts a lot like APK, is it the same Alex maybe?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    20. Re: Unpasteurized milk production by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      If you're dead set on drinking someone's reproductive fluids, drink your own.

      I don't know, but last I checked, milk wasn't semen. Milk is in fact not used in the reproducing of cows, it is used after the reproduction.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  7. Pasteurization still? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this day and age? Why don't they use UV or gamma or beta irradiation?

    1. Re:Pasteurization still? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Irradiation degrades the flavor of milk more than heat pasteurization does. Milk, as it turns out, is very sensitive to radiation and develops an off flavor very quickly with exposure.

      In the US, at least, the FDA has also not approved irradiation as a treatment for milk. Because of the issues with flavor, it's also very doubtful that manufacturers will go to the expense of lobbying for approval.

  8. Re:Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hope you don't eat lettuce leaves; they're intended to feed the lettuce plant itself via photosynthesis.

    There are valid reasons for not eating/drinking milk, I don't think you've given one of them.

  9. Re:Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's the drama? we're saving cows which would otherwise be used for slaughter only.

    More importantly we find that the less stress cows have the more and better milk they produce so we're actively looking to better the lives of cows.

    Is this what nature intended? no. Nature has no feelings other than man-made moral judgements. Humans are part of nature, this is now "natural".

    Bottom line, are cows better off providing milk for humans? yes. Are humans better off? yes.

    Wait until you confront the fact human breast milk is even better and some human adults produce it for others to drink...but I guess it's not mainstream because as the proverb goes; you don't have to buy a cow for a glass of milk.

  10. cost more too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it will cost more too. The farmers can't get rid of the milk now. If it last 2-3 weeks more, then the farmer can't sell you as much milk thus they'll want more price supports because they'll have to cut back not to produce.

    I'm for doing everything the opposite. Let the bacteria do the work and convert it to cheese. Then take the cheese that can sit on the shelf for a pretty long time and then reconvert it back to milk as one needs it. I'd think this would be easiest way to extend milks shelf life! So if it takes about 1-2 gallons of milk to make a pound a cheese, the storage space would be optimized too which then reconverts back to 1-2 gallons of milk.

      The other way to extend milks life is to convert it to powdered milk. I wonder how long powdered milk would last using this process?

    1. Re:cost more too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please share this process for converting cheese to milk. Actually you comment leads me to believe you have no idea how cheese is actually made. Milk doesn't just age into cheese.

  11. Temperature increase from what temperature? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The technology they've developed involves increasing the temperature of milk by just 10 degrees for less than a second, which is well below the 70-degree Celsius threshold needed for pasteurization.

    What temperature do they increase the milk from? You can't say an increase of 10 degrees is "well below" an absolute measurement of 70 degrees.

    Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates.

    ...what?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 0

      38.6C, the temp it comes out of the cow.

      Is it really that god damn difficult for you high UID monkeys to use a bit of simple logic? Do you really need literally everything spoon-fed to you?

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    2. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 5, Informative

      38.6C, the temp it comes out of the cow.

      Is it really that god damn difficult for you high UID monkeys to use a bit of simple logic? Do you really need literally everything spoon-fed to you?

      Are you seriously going to chastise someone when you didn't even bother to try to figure out what the hell is going on yourself? It's pretty obvious from TFS (which is admittedly poorly written, based on a poorly written TFA, based almost directly on a completely ignorant university press release linked in TFS) that the milk is still pasteurized and this is an ADDITIONAL step. So the "temperature" we're raising by "10 degrees" is completely confusing in all of these sources.

      SLASHDOT EDITORS: STOP PUTTING UP CRAP ARTICLES WITHOUT A LINK TO THE ORIGINAL SCIENTIFIC SOURCE!!!

      This is the kind of stupid ignorant discussions we get without the actual scientific source, which can be found here.

      Now everyone go read actually what this study did. Most stuff in TFS is confused if not downright wrong. Let me explain the basics of this process, based on the actual scientific study:

      (1) Pasteurization is good, but it only results in limited shelf life. Other techniques used for increasing shelf life (ultra-high temp or UHT pasteurization, low-temperature long time or LTLT pasteurization) produce undesirable effects on flavor and/or nutrients, etc.

      (2) This process is what the authors describe as "low temperature, short time (LTST) amendment for pasteurization" which could be added after normal pasteurization to increase shelf life dramatically without some of the negative effects described above.

      (3) The statement from TFS "The technology they've developed involves increasing the temperature of milk by just 10 degrees for less than a second, which is well below the 70-degree Celsius threshold needed for pasteurization" is complete BS. I don't know what it's supposed to mean. If you go to the actual scientific study, you'll find the temperatures in the chamber for the 5 trials varied between 64.8 C and 83.8 C. In general, chamber temperatures in the trials below 70 C seemed to be much less effective at increasing shelf life and weren't recommended. So TFS -- and the university press it's based on -- are completely wrong.

      (4) What is the process really? Well, just after pasteurization (which occurs at or above 72.7C), the milk is reheated in a special chamber and dispersed in droplets. The reheating step only raises the temperature of the milk by 1 to 10C over what it was before (in the words of the authors "at or below pasteurization temperatures" of less than or equal to 72.7C) for 0.02 seconds. As I noted above, the actual temperature achieved in the chamber seems important (definitely above 70 C seems desirable), with higher temperatures being more effective at increasing shelf life.

      (5) The process is potentially an improvement over other proposals to increase shelf-life for a number of reasons:
      -- No significant loss in nutrients compared with standard pasteurization.
      -- No significant taste difference or perceived quality difference among tasters with this additional step.
      -- The minimal heat energy required for this step could be incorporated into a standard pasteurization process setting to siphon off heat energy already present from the pasteurization tube, so this wouldn't necessarily require additional energy (and is thus very efficient).

      OK? That's what's actually going on here. Now that we know what the original science is actually about, please continue your random Slashdot insults and debates.... perhaps slightly more informed.

    3. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was a perfectly valid question. You made some simple assumptions and got it completely wrong. If you read the actual paper (https://springerplus.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40064-016-2250-1) this low temp/short time (LTST) method is done in conjunction with and following traditional high temp/short time (HTST) pasteurization. The paper only says that the method raises the temperature 10c from the inlet temperature. It doesn't say what the inlet temperature is at all. But, if you look at the processing diagram in the paper the product goes through HTST pasteurization then to a homogenizer then to the LTST vessel. There is no cooling step at all. Since the milk must leave the HTST at 72C and it is not being cooled at all the milk should still be 60-70C when it enters the LTST.

      Maybe I'm also making the incorrect assumptions about the inlet temperature (the paper doesn't make it clear), but I don't see any way for the milk to cool that much after it leaves the HTST. I have a food science degree and I have been working in the dairy industry for 7 years.

    4. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm also making the incorrect assumptions about the inlet temperature (the paper doesn't make it clear)

      The paper gives detailed tables showing the inlet temp, the chamber temp, and the outlet temp for every trial. Inlet temp varied between 51 and 73 C for the trials, though those that used a lower inlet temp seemed less effective for extending shelf life.

    5. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile it seems like lower (not gonna call 6 digits low bud) UID monkeys make gross assumptions that often end up being false and feel the need to drag UID into the discussion as though it meant anything.

    6. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (1) Pasteurization is good, but it only results in limited shelf life. Other techniques used for increasing shelf life (ultra-high temp or UHT pasteurization, low-temperature long time or LTLT pasteurization) produce undesirable effects on flavor and/or nutrients, etc.

      It's good enough for us in Europe. Must be that you Americans have a finicky sense of taste, but somehow invented McDonald's, so....

    7. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates.

      Somebody did a little copy/paste editing from previous article
      https://science.slashdot.org/s...

    8. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BUT WHAT DOES THE GODS DAMNED HYDROGEN ANGLE MEAN?!?!

      *breaks down weeping at this unexplained mystery*

      (additional bullshit to try and get my joke past the silly caps filter, this is rally ridiculous Slashdot)

    9. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Matheus · · Score: 1

      So, on topic, it seems to me that the great improvement here isn't necessarily the reheating but the fact they do so on vaporized milk (dispersed/whatever preemptively blocking pedant reason why what they are doing is different from actual "vaporization")

      My question: Have they tried doing this during the initial round of pasteurization to see if the resulting once-baked milk is significantly 'cleaner' and possibly closer in taste/nutritional value to unpasteurized milk? The science makes a lot of sense to me as your heating will be more effective with more exposed surface area but I'm not clear on why this needs to be a secondary process instead of a modification of the primary process.. ?

    10. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Threni · · Score: 1

      "The developed technology uses low temperature, short time (LTST) in a process that disperses milk in the form of droplets..."

      What? It uses low temperature, short time.....what? Are there some words missing?

    11. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      38.6C, the temp it comes out of the cow.

      Is it really that god damn difficult for you high UID monkeys to use a bit of simple logic? Do you really need literally everything spoon-fed to you?

      Are you seriously going to chastise someone when you didn't even bother to try to figure out what the hell is going on yourself? It's pretty obvious from TFS (which is admittedly poorly written, based on a poorly written TFA, based almost directly on a completely ignorant university press release linked in TFS) that the milk is still pasteurized and this is an ADDITIONAL step. So the "temperature" we're raising by "10 degrees" is completely confusing in all of these sources.

      SLASHDOT EDITORS: STOP PUTTING UP CRAP ARTICLES WITHOUT A LINK TO THE ORIGINAL SCIENTIFIC SOURCE!!!

      This is the kind of stupid ignorant discussions we get without the actual scientific source, which can be found here.

      Now everyone go read actually what this study did. Most stuff in TFS is confused if not downright wrong. Let me explain the basics of this process, based on the actual scientific study:

      (1) Pasteurization is good, but it only results in limited shelf life. Other techniques used for increasing shelf life (ultra-high temp or UHT pasteurization, low-temperature long time or LTLT pasteurization) produce undesirable effects on flavor and/or nutrients, etc.

      (2) This process is what the authors describe as "low temperature, short time (LTST) amendment for pasteurization" which could be added after normal pasteurization to increase shelf life dramatically without some of the negative effects described above.

      (3) The statement from TFS "The technology they've developed involves increasing the temperature of milk by just 10 degrees for less than a second, which is well below the 70-degree Celsius threshold needed for pasteurization" is complete BS. I don't know what it's supposed to mean. If you go to the actual scientific study, you'll find the temperatures in the chamber for the 5 trials varied between 64.8 C and 83.8 C. In general, chamber temperatures in the trials below 70 C seemed to be much less effective at increasing shelf life and weren't recommended. So TFS -- and the university press it's based on -- are completely wrong.

      (4) What is the process really? Well, just after pasteurization (which occurs at or above 72.7C), the milk is reheated in a special chamber and dispersed in droplets. The reheating step only raises the temperature of the milk by 1 to 10C over what it was before (in the words of the authors "at or below pasteurization temperatures" of less than or equal to 72.7C) for 0.02 seconds. As I noted above, the actual temperature achieved in the chamber seems important (definitely above 70 C seems desirable), with higher temperatures being more effective at increasing shelf life.

      (5) The process is potentially an improvement over other proposals to increase shelf-life for a number of reasons: -- No significant loss in nutrients compared with standard pasteurization. -- No significant taste difference or perceived quality difference among tasters with this additional step. -- The minimal heat energy required for this step could be incorporated into a standard pasteurization process setting to siphon off heat energy already present from the pasteurization tube, so this wouldn't necessarily require additional energy (and is thus very efficient).

      OK? That's what's actually going on here. Now that we know what the original science is actually about, please continue your random Slashdot insults and debates.... perhaps slightly more informed.

      and, in addition, there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean,

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    12. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      Is it really that god damn difficult for you high UID monkeys to use a bit of simple logic? Do you really need literally everything spoon-fed to you?

      I must commend you, sir, on the invention of a unique new insult. I will remember this one, as it is spectacular. UID as a sorting mechanism for intelligence -- scary, that one is...;-)

      rgb

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    13. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      But what a great insult! Don't take away the genius of it just because it was, well, less than genius in its conclusion. After all, one can get milk in cardboard boxes already that will last "indefinitely" on an actual shelf, so the entire article is only marginally interesting from the point of view of increasing our quality of life, and since the entire first half of the discussion seemed to focus on a wilfull ignorance of the simple fact that unpasturized milk can carry all sorts of potentially fatal diseases -- including one that was a scourge at the time the process was instituted, tuberculosis -- instead of the science of the process itself. At least this thread discusses the process.

      To quote the Wikipedia article on pasteurization:

      The US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says improperly handled raw milk is responsible for nearly three times more hospitalizations than any other food-borne disease source, making it one of the world's most dangerous food products.[16][17] Diseases prevented by pasteurization can include tuberculosis, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, and Q-fever; it also kills the harmful bacteria Salmonella, Listeria, Yersinia, Campylobacter, Staphylococcus aureus, and Escherichia coli O157:H7,[18][19] among others.

      So, one can take the chance that the raw milk you drink is "properly handled", which may be a reasonable bet in a rural setting where you know the cow and farmer involved, or you can insist that your milk be pasteurized. As a firm believer in the second law of thermodynamics and evolution, I personally will opt for pasteurization and encourage believers in in the comparative virtue of raw milk to drink lots of it, preferably while still young.

      Given this level of nonsense in the discussion, one has to take what one can from it! "High UID Monkeys" is actually highly competitive with TFA and post itself.

      rgb

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    14. Re:Temperature increase from what temperature? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn I wish I were a mod today.

  12. Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Viol8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In fact we've even evolved to keep the lactase enzyme into adulthood in the majority of the worlds population just because of drinking milk. So get over it cupcake and take your hand wringing animal rights agenda elsewhere.

    1. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mmmmmmmmmmm cupcakes!

    2. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Follow your own advice

    3. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your point of view is entirely, "well, we've been doing it for so long, why stop now?" ...!

    4. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by necro81 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In fact we've even evolved to keep the lactase enzyme into adulthood in the majority of the worlds population just because of drinking milk. So get over it cupcake and take your hand wringing animal rights agenda elsewhere

      I don't know - I've had some vegan cupcakes that were indistinguishable from conventional.

      You are correct that a segment of humans have evolved to take advantage of the milk production of other animals. That's been pretty beneficial to us as a species. But the traditional, pastoral production of milk that coincided with that evolution bears almost no resemblance to the industrialized production of milk in the modern world. There are plenty of legitimate problems about industrial dairy - and not just for the cows! - that are worth discussing out in the open. It doesn't have to be either 1) you don't give a shit about how the milk is produced orwhat's in it so long as it is plentiful and cheap, or 2) you're a dreadlocked vegan stridently and smugly preaching about the evil wrought by humans.

      I, for one, welcome this development. So much food is wasted in industrialized societies - it is sickening. Past-date milk is one of the worst examples. If milk has a longer shelf life, then the entire industry can operate more efficiently, which ought to 1) reduce prices for consumers and 2) reduce pressure on producers to treat their livestock so shittily in the quest to produce more cheaply

    5. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes it is, because the claims that it's not good for us or is somehow wrong are simply lies. Why stop, we benefit from drinking Milk.

    6. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time I hear the insult "cupcake" or "snowflake" or any similar vein-necked outburst I can't help but think somebody has a strange R. Lee Ermey fetish.

    7. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      The drinking of milk and the production of it are 2 seperate arguments. I agree industrialised production of milk doesn't have the best interests of animal welfare at heart , but ditto every other aspect of farming, even arable where acres are scorch earthed and planted with a monoculture. The only solution is to reduce the population then we can all eat "organically" produced produce. But that suggestion doesn't go down well with about 50% of the population who are programmed to have kids and a lot of men who think its a divine commandment.

    8. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If milk has a longer shelf life, then the entire industry can operate more efficiently, which ought to 1) reduce prices for consumers and 2) reduce pressure on producers to treat their livestock so shittily in the quest to produce more cheaply

      I see you are new to modern society. May I suggest reading Karl Marx' "Das Kapital" as a gentle introduction? It will be as useful as Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" in a bar brawl panic but then it's nice to start with assuming humans to be animals endowed with intelligence, sense, reasoning, and purpose, making the great human struggles a heroic fight between the forces of good and evil rather than those of dumb and dumber.

      TL/DR: cows are screwed, period.

    9. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      As the son-in-law of a dairy farmer I can tell you that stressed/unhappy cows are bad for business. They create poor quality milk, which reduces the quality of the entire tank.

      That is to say, cow happiness is very much in the financial interest of the farmer.

      That isn't to say that all farming is great, but in dairy, there is much more pressure to make the animal happy than in say, chicken farming or, pretty much anything else.

    10. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no. The vast majority of the world's population can not handle lactose, they lose the ability to produce lactase early in life. It's only a small subset with the right genes that can handle dairy in adulthood, generally European Descended Caucasians. It caused a great deal of difficulty when Americans tried to send powdered milk to foreign countries as an aid food. (Nobody could eat the milk safely, The powdered milk gave EVERYONE terrible food posioning.)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence#Global_spread

    11. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your point of view is entirely, "well, we've been doing it for so long, why stop now?" ...!

      The point of view of raw milk proponents is also "we've been doing it for so long (eg. thousands of years)", so what's your point?

    12. Re:Humans have been doing it for 1000s of years by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      As the son-in-law of a dairy farmer I can tell you that stressed/unhappy cows are bad for business. They create poor quality milk, which reduces the quality of the entire tank.

      That is to say, cow happiness is very much in the financial interest of the farmer.

      That isn't to say that all farming is great, but in dairy, there is much more pressure to make the animal happy than in say, chicken farming or, pretty much anything else.

      does condensed milk come from condensed cows? and evaporated milk.....?

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  13. remember CJD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember CJD? that prion disease that destroyed your brain? That was the result of a change of pasteurization of cattle feed to a lower temperature. True, countless folk have used unpasteurized milk for thousands of years, and it's not like we're feeding the milk back into cattle from that state. So common sense/history would say 'safe'.

    1. Re:remember CJD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prions are pretty heat-resistant. It would help if we no longer feed soylent purple back to cattle, giving them bovine kuru.

    2. Re:remember CJD? by IRGlover · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't know where you are, but in the UK (home of "Mad Cow Disease") we were told that it was the result of using cheap cattle feed that included ground-up sheep infected with Scrapie. This induced BSE in the cows, which resulted in CJD when people ate a significant amount of the infected beef. It may be that the pasteurisation of the cattle feed was changed and so the Scrapie was not killed off, but I would say that a bigger issue is feeding ground up animals to herbivorous livestock in the first place!

    3. Re:remember CJD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a cheap form of "hamburger helper!"

    4. Re:remember CJD? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wow... so much incorrect information in such a small space.

      First, CJD is caused by prions which can come from several sources including your own body if you're unlucky enough to have the wrong genetic mutation.

      Second, the prion that causes Bovine spongiform encephalopathy cannot be destroyed by any level of pasteurization that would leave cattle feed in an edible state. It remains viable at temperatures below 600 degrees C. Trying to pasteurize cattle feed at that temperature would incinerate it and leave you with prion-laden ashes. Changes to regulations on the pasteurization of cattle feed would have no effect whatsoever on this.

      Third, the outbreaks of BSE were caused by cattle feed containing the remains of sick cattle and sheep. At the time, it was seen as a way to minimize lost profits while disposing of sick animals, so it rapidly became a wide-spread practice which resulted in the huge outbreaks of the dease.

    5. Re:remember CJD? by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      the result of using cheap cattle feed that included ground-up sheep infected with Scrapie. This induced BSE in the cows,

      Today, from the "what the fuck were they thinking?" category...

      Seriously, feeding ground up diseased animal to a different animal? What could possibly go wrong? It sounds like the public should have been aware of effects of DDT in 1962, which demonstrates what happens when bad stuff enters the food chain and gets concentrated up.

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    6. Re:remember CJD? by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

      which resulted in the huge outbreaks

      Well, not in the US. *wink* *wink* But I think that was because they were never really looking for it - I figured out how many cows they tested, and it was a pretty tiny fraction of a percent.

    7. Re:remember CJD? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      the result of using cheap cattle feed that included ground-up sheep infected with Scrapie. This induced BSE in the cows,

      Today, from the "what the fuck were they thinking?" category...

      Seriously, feeding ground up diseased animal to a different animal? What could possibly go wrong? It sounds like the public should have been aware of effects of DDT in 1962, which demonstrates what happens when bad stuff enters the food chain and gets concentrated up.

      "I'd like to clear up some misconceptions regarding Krustyburgers. We do not use diseased animal tissue in Krustyburgers. We use healthy tissue from diseased animals" -Krusty the Klown

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  14. Re:Yay! by Coisiche · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well the industry may involve questionable ethics but the fact that the lactase persistence mutation is so prevalent among European descent indicates that there was a time (admittedly thousands of years ago) where adults able to consume the milk of a different species survived better than those that couldn't. If it had made no difference to survivability then the mutation would be less common and most of Europe would be lactose intolerant.

  15. WTF does hydrogen have to do with it? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates

    Not only am I getting really sick of seeing link backs to stories which are often literally less than a day old, but in this case it is completely irrelevant.

    Links back to relevant stories are not bad, but they only make sense when they are related, of really really important significance, or old enough that they aren't in the immediate memory of the readership.

    This is journalism 101 type stuff.

    1. Re:WTF does hydrogen have to do with it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      BeauHD has proven to be a complete jackass. This is embarrasing and ridiculous.

    2. Re:WTF does hydrogen have to do with it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BeauHD has proven to be complete automation. What more can we expect?

    3. Re:WTF does hydrogen have to do with it? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      This is journalism 101 type stuff.

      Ha, you used the word "journalism" on /. - funny.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  16. Re:Yay! by evilviper · · Score: 1

    perverted industry where one mammal's breast milk (intended for infants of its own kind) is fed to adults of a different species.

    And the same animal's flesh, intended for maggots, bacteria, plants, and various carrion animal species, is similarly fed to humans...

    Vegetarian Diet Kills Animals Too:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Technolo...

    Last but not least:

    And the angel of the Lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber, and took me on high, and higher still until we moved in the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he bore me unto a vast farmland of our own midwest, and as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay, a million voices full of fear, and terror possessed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots. You see, reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day
    and to them it is the holocaust."

    And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one millions terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light, they have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul. Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses, save our brothers...can I get an amen? Can I get a Hallelujah? Thank you, Jesus.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  17. BeauHD is awesome by evilviper · · Score: 1

    participants had equal or greater preference for the LTST pasteurized milk compared to normally pasteurized milk. [...] Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean

    I'd certainly like my milk to stay fresh longer, but hauling it down under the ocean, and mixing it with hydrogen sounds far too challenging a process to realistically commercialize.

    The shelf was determined to be a minimum of two weeks longer than the standard shelf life from pasteurization alone.

    Wow. It sounds like you need a ridiculously huge shelf somewhere in your dairy facilities, too... Who has room for a two-week long shelf?

    As for whether or not this method will make its way to store shelves, it won't in the near future. "Currently an Ohio-based milk processor is using this technology and distributing the milk," Applegate says.

    That's some interesting logic, there... It won't be on store shelves in the near future, because it's already on store shelves now.

    It was EditorDavid who screwed-up big a few days ago:

    https://slashdot.org/comments....

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:BeauHD is awesome by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yeah everyone is focusing on the tectonic plate thing and missed this gem.

    2. Re:BeauHD is awesome by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Hard to say how interesting this fact is without knowing the velocity. Should we assume c or 1m/day, or ...?

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  18. What's the difference? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

    Currently in the UK I can buy regular pasteurized milk which can be homogenized or not and lasts about a week, or "filtered" but still regularly pasteurized milk (e.g. Cravendale) which lasts 2-3 weeks. What's the difference with this new process? I seems to still require the regular pasteurization and adds an extra heating to get the same effect as the "filtering". Note that I use quotes since I don't know what this filtering entails, so the question is whether this new process has any advantage over that filtering, or is the story just to advertise a new (I assume patented) way to achieve the same effect?

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:What's the difference? by bmk67 · · Score: 1

      Indeed - what does this process do that could not already be done?

      The milk I buy has been "ultrapasteurized" (2 seconds @ 280F) and is stable for 60+ days (at least 15 days after opening).

    2. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, GP was specifically talking about normal pasteurization with the addition of filtering. The UHT milk you are talking about is quite different, as ultra-pasteurization does affect taste among other things. In fact, UHT milk lasts at least a month (unopened) outside the fridge, it is only sold in refrigerated form in order for consumers to associate it more with raw milk. You can check it - despite of what the box might say, if it is ultra-pasteurized it only needs to be put in the fridge after you open it.

  19. ESL milk?... by dabadab · · Score: 2

    Is it really something new or noteworthy?
    I am not sure about the US but here in Europe ESL milk (PDF) is a pretty standard thing: it has a shelf life of 3-4 weeks and it is of course chemical-free.

    --
    Real life is overrated.
    1. Re:ESL milk?... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      Is it really something new or noteworthy?
      I am not sure about the US but here in Europe ESL milk (PDF) is a pretty standard thing: it has a shelf life of 3-4 weeks and it is of course chemical-free.

      I put a much longer explanation in a post above based on the actual scientific study. But from reading your ESL link, it seems there are a couple differences: the ESL process seems to be a variant on the UHT process with slightly lower temperature (but still way above normal pasteurization). Your link says that additional losses in nutrients and quality are minimal, but they do exist.

      This process is essentially an "add-on" to a normal pasteurization process which happens for a fraction of a second around normal pasteurization temperatures (ca. 70-80 C). Since the temperature increase is very small, it doesn't require additional heat energy from outside the pasteurization system and likely would suffer even less quality/nutrient loss compared to the ESL process.

      At least that's what I got from reading the actual study.

    2. Re:ESL milk?... by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Then you didn't read the ESL link, because there are several different methods of obtaining ESL milk, the main ones that are pushed in the UK at least involve separating the cream from the milk, ultra-filtrating the milk to remove all the bacteria, and then pasteurizing the cream before blending them back together. Presumably there is some reason preventing ultra-filtration of the cream.

      One of the methods also involves centrifuging the milk which is another way of separating out the bacteria without using heat.

  20. Raw milk faddist here by codeButcher · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The technology they've developed involves increasing the temperature of milk by just 10 degrees for less than a second, which is well below the 70-degree Celsius threshold needed for pasteurization. That quick heat blast is still able to eliminate more than 99 percent of the bacteria left from pasteurization.

    So which is it? Do they first pasteurize the milk, then "blast" it with the 10 degrees? Or is the 10 degree thing the only treatment?

    without affecting the nutrients or flavor.

    As any hobby cheese maker will be able to tell you, pasteurizing diminishes calcium content by around half. If you google for cheese making instructions, almost all will tell you to preferably use unpasteurized milk, and if you have to use pasteurized, you need to add calcium. Calcium is one of the things needed for the fermentation processes. (UHT milk is strictly discouraged as about all calcium is destroyed, and the stuff one can add back is not of the same quality - cheeses with UHT milk usually flop).

    Obviously, a lot of other nutrients (minerals, vitamins, probiotics) are diminished. I'm not sure about the chemistry, but I assume it would not be elemental minerals, but some organic compounds being broken down so as not to be utilizable by biological processes (fermentation, digestion) any longer.

    Thankfully, in my country one can sell raw (unpasteurized) milk legally, provided samples are tested every few months for some pathogens - this is called "certified raw milk". My provider voluntarily does the tests once a month. I obviously use some of the milk fresh, which seems to last longer in my fridge than the commercial pasteurized milk. Most of it is used for feta-style cheese, one of the easiest cheeses (I know, I know, cows milk does not make "real" feta). I do not need to add any cultures, it uses its natural-occurring cultures for the fermentation step, I only need to add some coagulation enzymes. The cheese also differs light-years in taste from the chalky store-bought stuff made from cow's milk.

    And let's not get me started on taste. Just not comparable to the white stuff from the supermarket. The milk also comes unhomogenized, and somehow that cream just does it for one's tastebuds.

    Anyhow, as you may deduce, I'm a fan of making milk last for weeks in the traditional (and nutrient-enhancing) way: fermentation. Jogurt and kefir do last about double as long as the fresh milk, and can still be used instead of fresh milk in a lot of applications; cheeses obviously last for some months at least and be default only get better with age. Cream and butter also last a bit longer, and freeze well. Then there is the trip to the supplier every week or two to restock - for the few single days in between where your fresh milk is used up, there REALLY are other diet options, you don't need fresh milk every day.

    --
    Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    1. Re:Raw milk faddist here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not a faddist but I do cook a lot. When you pasteurizing milk more and messing with, it changes the proteins and sugar structure. For one, it makes making cheese a bit of a problem. . Fortunately, I don't make cheese very often. But nevertheless, these process have an effect on the chemical structure and cooks have to make adjustments or source ingredients from other places.

    2. Re:Raw milk faddist here by jabuzz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am going to have to call you out on that. But heat treating milk whether it is for pasteurization or UHT, cannot and I repeat CANNOT diminish the calcium in the milk.

      If it did that would be revolutionary low temperature nuclear reactions that defied all known laws of physics and would most likely kill anyone in the vicinity with lethal doses of radiation. This is the sort of crap that Fleischmann and Pons where spouting and more recently Andrea Rossi.

      Whatever heat treatment does to milk and I am not going to be so stupid as to claim it has not effect, it most emphatically DOES NOT diminish the calcium content of the milk as to do so would require by definition nuclear reactions which only morons would claim could occur.

    3. Re:Raw milk faddist here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/nonpasteurized-outbreaks.html

      "...we reviewed dairy-associated outbreaks during 1993–2006.

      We found 121 outbreaks for which the product's pasteurization status was known; among these, 73 (60%) involved nonpasteurized products and resulted in 1,571 cases, 202 hospitalizations, and 2 deaths. A total of 55 (75%) outbreaks occurred in 21 states that permitted sale of nonpasteurized products."

      http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html

      "...it is thought that less than 1% of milk sold to consumers in the United States has not been pasteurized."

      Therefore we can infer that each year 16 people would die, 1554 would be hospitalized, and 12,085 people would have sickness bad enough to discuss it with their family doctor if all milk sold were raw.

      No thanks. I am willing to bet that in the states that permit raw milk sales those selling it are careful about what they're selling because killing people kind of makes your product unacceptable.

      All that vs. your implied threat that pasteurized milk has a risk of giving you osteoporosis (which isn't even true because calcium doesn't disappear). Hard choice!

    4. Re:Raw milk faddist here by guises · · Score: 2

      It was poorly phrased. Of course the amount of calcium in the milk remains the same, but over heated milk does seem to have reduced bioavailability of calcium. The above poster's claim of a 50% reduction between raw and pasteurized milks seems to be really high, but I can't find any numbers on that. Pasteurization does reduce B and C vitamins in milk by about 5%.

    5. Re:Raw milk faddist here by labnet · · Score: 1

      I hear that in America, if you try to sell unpasteurised milk, they send a SWAT team. USA, USA.
      In Australia we have to buy it as bath milk... And as you say, it doesn't go off like pasteurised milk, but starts naturally fermenting and taking on yogurt like flavours.

      --
      46137
    6. Re:Raw milk faddist here by codeButcher · · Score: 1

      It was poorly phrased. Of course the amount of calcium in the milk remains the same, but over heated milk does seem to have reduced bioavailability of calcium. The above poster's claim of a 50% reduction between raw and pasteurized milks seems to be really high, but I can't find any numbers on that. Pasteurization does reduce B and C vitamins in milk by about 5%.

      So it was. Unfortunately that's the language commonly used in cheesemaking tutorials. Hence the 3rd paragraph in my original post. One day I might get around to read up on the actual biochemistry and be able to quantify more precisely, but for now I'm too lazy to do that and the cheese works out all right.

      About adding Ca: http://curd-nerd.com/calcium-c...

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    7. Re:Raw milk faddist here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I am going to have to call you out on that. But heat treating milk whether it is for pasteurization or UHT, cannot and I repeat CANNOT diminish the calcium in the milk.

      Treatments may change the amount of accessible elements by binding them differently. But in this case, the OP more probably got his facts mostly correlated to reality except for renaming "casein" to "calcium". Which is an easy mistake to make since casein in milk is contained in the form of a calcium salt and thus is a major source of calcium. And yes, it's quite relevant to cheesemaking.

      Casein is also comparatively heat-resistant compared to other proteins, so we are really more talking about a correlation to reality here than something really solid. Pasteurization, however, significantly reduces natural bacteria that help with curdling the casein, requiring quite larger amounts of rennet than with raw milk cheeses.

    8. Re:Raw milk faddist here by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      While it's completely fine to use milk to make yogurt, cheese and such, you have to remember that in most countries, people buy milk so they can drink it. I wouldn't want to replace actual milk with anything else for that particular purpose, so having long-lasting milk is also important.

    9. Re:Raw milk faddist here by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      bacteria left from pasteurization.

      So which is it? Do they first pasteurize the milk

      Yes, that's why they're talking about bacteria left from pasteurization.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    10. Re:Raw milk faddist here by codeButcher · · Score: 1

      I hear that in America, if you try to sell unpasteurised milk, they send a SWAT team. USA, USA.

      Sounds likely :-) but fortunately not completely true: http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/...

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    11. Re:Raw milk faddist here by labnet · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the informative reply.
      A lot more diversity than I would have guessed other wise.

      --
      46137
    12. Re:Raw milk faddist here by AlanObject · · Score: 1

      Pasteurization destroys alkaline phosphatase, a necessary ingredient for metabolizing and making use of calcium. If you drink pasteurized milk and you have a deficiency of it you will get no benefit from the calcium in the white dreck.

    13. Re:Raw milk faddist here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Pasteurization destroys alkaline phosphatase, a necessary ingredient for metabolizing and making use of calcium.

      True, but--

      a) there are other food sources of calcium
      b) your intestines produce alkaline phosphatase, so you can still absorb and use the calcium in milk
      c) unpasteurized milk can kill you

    14. Re:Raw milk faddist here by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      It was poorly phrased. Of course the amount of calcium in the milk remains the same, but over heated milk does seem to have reduced bioavailability of calcium. The above poster's claim of a 50% reduction between raw and pasteurized milks seems to be really high, but I can't find any numbers on that. Pasteurization does reduce B and C vitamins in milk by about 5%.

      So it was. Unfortunately that's the language commonly used in cheesemaking tutorials. Hence the 3rd paragraph in my original post. One day I might get around to read up on the actual biochemistry and be able to quantify more precisely, but for now I'm too lazy to do that and the cheese works out all right.

      About adding Ca: http://curd-nerd.com/calcium-c...

      blessed are the cheesemakers.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  21. Re:Yay! by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Well, our teeth as well as our digestive system suggest that we're omnivores, so you needn't toss meat to the maggots and fungi. We're quite capable of eating it, provided it didn't get time to "ripen" too much. We're notoriously bad at eating carrion. A good indicator is the usual human reaction to the smell of Cadaverine (pentamethylenediamine) and Putrescine (tetramethylenediamine), which can best be described as "projectile vomiting", and that's why people who have EVER smelled a "juicy" corpse will NEVER forget that very smell, with some of them having the reaction above just from being reminded of the smell.

    Whoopsie, sorry for triggering a few EMTs.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  22. But I like chemicals by smooth+wombat · · Score: 0

    It annoys the crap out of those who go on a scavenger hunt for gulten free, free range soy milk.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  23. Perfectly on-topic my dear chap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hydrogenated milk fats could make butter solid enough at room temperature to use it for beating sense into Slashdot editors. History teaches us that this may require large sources of hydrogen gas from under the ocean because a lot of sense needs to go a long way.

  24. Congrats.. they made Fairlife milk by brxndxn · · Score: 1

    Fairlife milk has been on the store shelves for years.. Coca Cola owns it. I was a regular milk consumer - mainly because it was a cheap way to take in more protein. However, I was throwing a lot of milk away since it already seemed to taste bad even before it hit the expiration date. I tried the Fairlife milk and now I won't go back.. It tastes fresher than regular milk even a month after I open it. And, it has a higher protein content. Win Win.. I don't know what 'nutrients' they're throwing out of Fairlife milk.. but protein is protein.

    --
    --- We need more Ron Paul!
  25. Raw milk legal status by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I've been able to buy it in both EU countries I have lived in. Where is it illegal?

    You could have looked it up yourself.

    1. Re:Raw milk legal status by war4peace · · Score: 1

      That is 5 countries out of 28 (soon to be 27). That's nowhere near "most" of the EU.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  26. last line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last line of the summary:

    Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates.

    Has exactly WHAT to do with milk preservation?

    1. Re:last line? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Milk gives me gas too.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  27. Poor summary ... surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As for whether or not this method will make its way to store shelves, it won't in the near future ... Currently an Ohio-based milk processor is using this technology and distributing the milk

    Um, what the fuck?

    And what the fuck is with this sentence at the end:

    Scientists from Duke University believe there may be a large source of hydrogen gas under the ocean, caused by rocks forming from fast-spreading tectonic plates.

    Can we at least try to edit the submissions before posting them?

  28. now that the city boys have had their say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    raw milk (cream and all) is the best. an alternative to high heat (pasteurization) is 100 years overdue.

  29. What are they doing with the milk? by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

    The summary says: "As for whether or not this method will make its way to store shelves, it won't in the near future." This indicates that milk treated using this process is not available on store shelves. But then the summary says: "The product is currently being distributed." So I'm curious as to who they are distributing this milk to and what is being done with it?

  30. Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by magusxxx · · Score: 4, Informative

    Or, how about we just sell milk in bag-in-boxes like they do in other countries. They can sit on the shelf for up to 6 months as long as they're not opened. Grocery stores could still refrigerate them so they're cold and ready to go when people get home.

    --
    Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
    1. Re:Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maggie Simpson will also approve. Though you'll have to tell by her smile, as she's quite silent.

    2. Re:Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have that in Ontario. But putting it in a bag doesn't magically solve a shelf stable issue. It may last a while longer, but I've kept milk in the fridge in its bags for a couple of weeks after the best before date. By then it has turned. Add another week, and it is now chunky and clear.

      6 months is absolutely impossible if all you're doing is basic pasteurization and bagging it. UHT milk, however, is different.

    3. Re:Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, how about we just sell milk in bag-in-boxes like they do in other countries. They can sit on the shelf for up to 6 months as long as they're not opened. Grocery stores could still refrigerate them so they're cold and ready to go when people get home.

      You can buy ultra-pasteurized milk in the US; I've even seen it in Walmart. You store it on the shelf for up to 6 months, but need to use it within 2 or 3 days of opening (storing in the fridge after opening, of course). I find the flavor a lot stronger than regular milk.

    4. Re:Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cause of milk spoilage isn't poor containers. It's microbes that are actually in the milk itself - ones that are introduced to the milk as (or even before) it comes out of a cow. No amount of clever packaging is going to fix that. You need to treat the milk itself in order to kill the bacteria.

      So it's not the bag-in-box packaging that allows it to sit on the shelf for 6 months, it's the UHT (ultra high temperature) treatment they do to the milk before it goes into the bag-in-box that's the trick.

      I don't know if you've ever had UHT treated milk, but ... it's not very good. It's definitely edible, but for anyone accustomed to "normal" pasteurized milk, UHT milk has definite and pronounced off flavors. It's not so bad for cooked foods (which is where the countries which have UHT milk use the vast majority of their milk), but for drinking straight or pouring over cereal? No, not good at all.

      That's why they go on about taste panels in the announcement - it's not a throw-away line, it's a critical point in evaluating the differences between milk treatment processes.

    5. Re:Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UHT milk is nasty. If you grew up on regular pasteurized milk, then you'd hate UHT milk. I'm sure people who grew up on raw milk feel the same about pasteurized milk. And then there's the nutrient levels that everyone likes talking about. Supposedly the more heat, the fewer nutrients.

    6. Re:Maggie Griffin Approved Idea by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Or, how about we just sell milk in bag-in-boxes like they do in other countries. They can sit on the shelf for up to 6 months as long as they're not opened.

      You're talking about UHT (ultra-high temperature pasteurization) milk. It's widely available, but not even slightly popular because it just tastes HORRID. I can buy a quart of UHT at my nearby dollar store. Would you like to guess why I NEVER do that? Because it simply tastes HORRIBLE.

      Cans of evaporated or condensed milk have even longer shelf-lives. Ditto for powered milk. But all of them taste little to nothing like fresh milk.

      The big news with this low-temperature treatment, is that they claim it can extend the shelf life WITHOUT changing the taste at all. Not at all true for UHT.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  31. Cows are not strictly herbivorous. by denzacar · · Score: 1

    They'll munch on bones of other animals when they find them.
    They need all the calcium they can get as they are pumping it out through milk.

    Just like the way they'll go for some chicken nuggets if they are low on other nutrients such as phosphorus or iron.
    Nature is red in tooth and claw.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  32. ultra by blackomegax · · Score: 1

    Just ultra-pasturize. Whatever that means. I've had a thing of horizons milk in my fridge for a month and it's still as good as new.

  33. hydrogen gas by queequeg1 · · Score: 2

    The designated hitter rule (already a subject of great consternation) will become much more controversial once the windfarms off Nantucket become fully operational.

  34. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A gallon of milk in my fridge lasts several weeks (I only really use it for coffee) so I really don't get how this is a big deal that it needs a 'story'. Guess I'm missing the 'great advance' here.

    Besides that, what's with these 'semi-summary' statements after the main summary that have 0 to do with the main summary? What exactly does a pocket of hydrogen gas under the ocean have to do with milk?

  35. "Chemical-free"! by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

    Yep, remove all the chemicals from milk, and what's left will keep forever. As long as you can keep air from seeping into the resulting hard vacuum.

    1. Re:"Chemical-free"! by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      But what about the neutrinos?! I can't have neutrinos in my milk!

  36. What?!? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    Who drinks milk?!?
    I haven't drank milk in years...

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    1. Re:What?!? by godrik · · Score: 1

      Milk is for pussies!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  37. We already have UHT milk by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 1

    Ultra-pasteurized milk already lasts for three months.

    1. Re:We already have UHT milk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but it changes the flavour.

    2. Re:We already have UHT milk by jandrese · · Score: 2

      Ultra-Pasteurization caramelizes the sugars in the milk and throws off the taste.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  38. I'm in Ohio and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in Ohio and our milk tastes lille crap these past two months. It's so bad that this daily drinker hasn't had any milk in a month other to test how bad it still is. Now I hear that perhaps this is the reason? No tasty difference they claim but claims are as believable as a kraut.

  39. Funny this isn't mentioned.. by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

    There's a surplus of milk already, as dairy consumption is generally on the decline, at least that's what I keep seeing in the news...eg: Ontario dairy farmers dumping skim milk into manure pits and sewer lagoons. Extending the shelf life is the last thing the industry wants - spoilage is helping them at this point..

    1. Re:Funny this isn't mentioned.. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Exactly, this kind of thing is an absolute disaster for the food rationing business. Now they just lost one more reason for starving people. Even the charity business will suffer for this. Note, I am not mocking you. These sociopaths really think that way. And now they have to keep this stuff in the warehouse even longer before it rots.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  40. Re:Yay! by hankwang · · Score: 1

    "the usual human reaction to the smell of Cadaverine (pentamethylenediamine) and Putrescine (tetramethylenediamine),"

    Quoting the wiki:

    "Basic amines such as putrescine, spermine, spermidine and cadaverine are responsible for the smell and flavor of semen."

    What human reaction, you said?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  41. Re:Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "admittedly thousands of years ago"

    Actually, that is the really surprising thing. By evolutionary standards, that's just a few hundred generations, and yet lactose tolerance has become incredibly common in Europe. That can only happen if the specific mutation conferred a very significant improvement in the survival chances. That is to say, many, many lactose-intolerant people must have died while their lactose-tolerant neighbours did not. Doesn't necessarily mean death due to starvation, milk is also rich in Vitamin D. And that solves a problem in European winters, when sunlight is rare.

  42. Not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great, you "researched" a half-ass cross between ultra pasteurization and traditional LTST/HTST processes. I work for a large dairy with multiple facilities- unless there is an ROI for energy savings or something (unlikely based on 86% regen in HTST systems) this is not news.

  43. Not the first by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Micro-filtered milk already has that shelf-lifetime.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  44. What? by shadyn.ebey7844 · · Score: 1

    The last sentence has nothing to do with the article...

  45. Gut flora by sjbe · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do you not know how bioavailability works?

    While I'm no expert I have a crude idea. Do you? You seem to be conflating bio-availability some other concepts. It's a lot more complex than raw food = good bacteria = healthy person.

    Many of those bacteria help us digest stuff we lost the ability to digest after infancy.

    You are grossly oversimplifying the process. Bacteria help us digest stuff throughout our life. Remove them and we can barely survive at any age. We aren't born with all the bacteria we need to digest stuff and our gut flora change as we age. Some comes from mom, some comes from the geography and environment around us, some comes from our diet. Antibiotics have a strong effect on our gut flora.

    The debate about the health benefits of raw vs pasteurized milk has not yet yielded much in the way of firm conclusions. A few things seem clear. Pasteurizing does unquestionably kill harmful (and helpful) microbes and on balance it seems clear that it has a net benefit in reducing illness and mortality from pathogens. Most studies conducted so far that have found benefits to raw milk have not controlled for the fact that the individuals studied lived on a farm (hard to get raw milk elsewhere) and there are many variables relating to that so it is hard to draw any strong conclusions. There may be benefits but we haven't clearly teased them out yet. The available evidence and studies so far seems to show that any negative impact on nutrition from pasteurization is small to negligible though future studies may revise that conclusion as more data is gathered.

    1. Re:Gut flora by mjwx · · Score: 3, Informative

      The debate [wikipedia.org] about the health benefits of raw vs pasteurized milk has not yet yielded much in the way of firm conclusions.

      Actually the debate has some very firm conclusions with several deaths (mostly child deaths) directly linked to drinking raw milk. There was one in January here in the UK and in December 2014, one deaths and 4 serious injuries were caused by children consuming raw milk in Australia.

      The debate is out about homogenisation, but the debate over pasteurisation is very clear cut. The problem is, like many times where science is very clear there are a few vocal nutters who refuse to give up their beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence. Personally I dont mind letting adult nutters have their dangerous milk, my problem is when they try to force their bad life choices onto others, especially kids who couldn't know any better.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:Gut flora by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "You are grossly oversimplifying the process"

      You are grossly overthinking my statements in their entirety. Perhaps I made you think too hard.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Gut flora by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Most studies conducted so far that have found benefits to raw milk have not controlled for the fact that the individuals studied lived on a farm (hard to get raw milk elsewhere) and there are many variables relating to that so it is hard to draw any strong conclusions.

      Reminds me of an egregious case of missing data : people pretend smoking mariajuana doesn't give cancer. Actually there is simply a lack of a 20-year or 30-year study with enough hundreds/thousands of identified people. Smoking pure MJ and never smoking tobacco must be pretty rare too (what about the affordability)

    4. Re:Gut flora by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      There have actually been several large studies about marijuana and cancer. They show that it has a very small preventative effect on lung cancer and a strong preventative effect on many other cancers. Your ignorance on this subject is due to nothing other than your refusal to accept the evidence.

  46. Nutrition by sjbe · · Score: 2

    there is such a thing as "good bacteria" but never mind, this process will kill it all. sterilizing away most of the nutritional benefit.

    Most studies to date have concluded that pasteurization has minimal to negligible effect on the nutritional content of milk. Most of the nutritional value on milk has nothing whatsoever to do with any microbes in the product. The majority of the nutritional value comes from protein, fat, carbohydrates, minerals and vitamins which are largely unaffected by pasteurization. The largest impact seems to be on taste. Any impact on the gut fauna from pasteurization appears to be small and more than offset by the reduction in illness from various pathogens killed in the process.

    1. Re:Nutrition by AlanObject · · Score: 1

      Most studies to date have concluded that pasteurization has minimal to negligible effect on the nutritional content of milk.

      And "most studies" are complete BS. There are not a few but dozens of enzymes and nutrients that are destroyed by pasteurization. I'm not going to bother to link to articles you can easily google but I will mention one example.

      What's the government standard for testing milk for adequate pasteurization? It is the test for the presence of alkaline phosphatase. If it has that in it they will send you back in to boil it some more.

      As it turns out alkaline phosphatase is necessary for you to metabolize calcium. If you drink pasteurized milk and don't have a store of it in your system already, you are are getting no benefit from the calcium that is present in the milk. Nobody knows how many people have this deficiency but no wonder there are so many studies questioning the calcium benefits of milk. You have to wonder what their results would be if they used raw milk but I haven't seen any such thing.

      There are many other enzymes and nutrients we could discuss but I sense that any such attempt will be futile to those who have been conditioned from birth to accept factory processed milk as the real thing.

  47. Cows milk is for baby cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always wondered why they don't have pigs milk on the shelves

  48. Cheese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have been extending milk's shelf life for a very long time.

  49. Milk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you put fresh bought milk in the freezer for 20-25 minutes (then put it in the normal ice box of course) when it's first brought home then it will last up to 7-10 days longer. Try it. I have been using this method for several years now. It works well.

  50. Brain fart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Chemical freeway" was how I first read that title...

    My brain manages to register all the letters correctly and still mess up. Nice job brain, fooled me again.

  51. Re:Yay! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    You might want to take into account what amounts are in the play here.

    But hey, be my guest, if you feel like eating carrion, I won't keep you from doing it. Personally, I find the smell repugnant.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  52. Has anyone considered freezing it? by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    In California raw milk is legal but hard to find at a retail level. So I purchase it directly from a farm and it is delivered UPS. To mitigate the shipping charges I order a fairly large amount and have them ship it frozen in quart or 2-quart bottles. When I get it all but one goes directly into my freezer where it will keep fine for months. As needed I move bottles from the freezer to the refrigerator where it thaws in about 20 hours. The effect of freezing on the enzymes, nutrients, and bioactive components are minimal.

    I will take that any day over this horrific machining process being proposed.

  53. Re:Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another victory for the perverted industry where one mammal's breast milk (intended for infants of its own kind) is fed to adults of a different species.

    and just think about eggs.
    i suppose next we'll be frying rooster sperm for breakfast.
    not that chewing on muscle tissue of a deceased (or not) animal is less yucky

  54. Evidence based policies by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Actually the debate has some very firm conclusions with several deaths (mostly child deaths) directly linked to drinking raw milk. There was one in January here in the UK and in December 2014, one deaths and 4 serious injuries were caused by children consuming raw milk in Australia.

    Presuming what you are claiming is factual (I won't dispute it here), one death in an entire country is insufficient to constitute strong evidence one way or the other. In the US alone there are 3000 deaths and 128,000 hospitalizations for food borne illnesses every year. You'll find more than a few of those come from dairy products that have been pasteurized. One child dying per year is a tragedy but it's not enough by itself to draw any firm conclusions for or against raw milk. I think the evidence thus far tends to indicate that any benefits from raw milk are minor in comparison to the problem of food-borne pathogens but the benefits of raw milk do not appear to be fully understood at this time. For myself I'll stick with pasteurized milk until there is strong evidence against it.

    The debate is out about homogenisation, but the debate over pasteurisation is very clear cut.

    If you will bother to read what I wrote, you'll not that I agree that pasteurization has a clear net benefit nor did I even hint that we should stop doing it. Whatever benefits raw milk has are poorly understood at present and the risks seem to significantly outweigh the known benefits. That's what evidence based policies are all about.

    Personally I dont mind letting adult nutters have their dangerous milk, my problem is when they try to force their bad life choices onto others, especially kids who couldn't know any better.

    I'm guessing you don't have any children of your own because there is absolutely no way that you can have kids and not force some of your own bad life choices on them. You (hopefully) won't mean to but it cannot be helped. We all make mistakes and bad choices in our life and our kids just have to live with them to varying degrees. One just hopes that you can avoid forcing the really bad ones on them like religion, lack of vaccines, etc.