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'DNC Hacker' Unmasked: He Really Works for Russia, Researchers Say (thedailybeast.com)

The hacker who claimed to compromise the DNC swore he was Romanian, but new investigation shows he worked directly for Russia President Vladimir Putin's government in Moscow. The Daily Beast reports: The hacker who claims to have stolen emails from the Democratic National Committee and provided them to WikiLeaks is actually an agent of the Russian government and part of an orchestrated attempt to influence U.S. media coverage surrounding the presidential election, a security research group concluded on Tuesday. The researchers, at Arlington, Va.-based ThreatConnect, traced the self-described Romanian hacker Guccifer 2.0 back to an Internet server in Russia and to a digital address that has been linked in the past to Russian online scams. Far from being a single, sophisticated hacker, Guccifer 2.0 is more likely a collection of people from the propaganda arm of the Russian government meant to deflect attention away from Moscow as the force behind the DNC hacks and leaks of emails, the researchers found. ThreatConnect is the first known group of experts to link the self-proclaimed hacker to a Russian operation, amidst an ongoing FBI investigation and a presidential campaign rocked by the release of DNC emails that have embarrassed senior party leaders and inflamed intraparty tensions turning the Democratic National Convention. The emails revealed that party insiders plotted ways to undermine Sen. Bernie Sanders' presidential bid. The researchers at the aforementioned security firm are basing their conclusion on three signals: the hacker used Russian computers to edit PDF files, he also used Russian VPN -- and other internet infrastructure from the country, and that he was unable to speak Romanian.

98 of 704 comments (clear)

  1. oh well by Torvac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    lets blame russia

    1. Re:oh well by Torvac · · Score: 5, Interesting

      totally not north korea this time

    2. Re:oh well by jstroebe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Blame Canada they're not even a real country anyway.

    3. Re:oh well by wyHunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed. Nobody cares that they've subverted Democracy. But by golly how terrible those Russians caught them doing it!

    4. Re:oh well by quax · · Score: 2

      We may have to build this wall to the South after all ...

      (Saying that as a Canadian resident).

  2. So that makes it OK then by Script+Cat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nothing to see here. These crimes were exposed by someone we don't like so much. That makes it OK.

    1. Re:So that makes it OK then by jratcliffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released? Staffers at the DNC didn't much like a number of members of Sanders's staff. Some of them preferred Clinton. Good policy? Maybe, maybe not, but not a crime by any definition of the term.

    2. Re:So that makes it OK then by laie_techie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released? Staffers at the DNC didn't much like a number of members of Sanders's staff. Some of them preferred Clinton. Good policy? Maybe, maybe not, but not a crime by any definition of the term.

      I haven't read the emails, but I don't believe they expose any crimes committed by the DNC; instead it shows that they did not want to play by their own rules when determining their candidate. It's dirty pool which may disenfranchise some Democrats.

    3. Re:So that makes it OK then by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How so? Politicians lying is protected speech.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:So that makes it OK then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fraud. Money laundering. Racketeering. Violations of campaign finance laws.

    5. Re:So that makes it OK then by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious.

      Among other things, the emails show direct discussions surrounding the promising of high profile government positions to generous campaign supporters and contributors. A direct violation of 18 U.S.C./599. That's a crime.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    6. Re:So that makes it OK then by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Informative

      I haven't read the emails, but I don't believe they expose any crimes committed by the DNC

      Conspiring to violate 18 USC/599 is a federal crime. The rest is just typical liberal crap on display (hey! nobody's looking! let's use disparaging references to ethnic groups and make fun of a black woman's name!), but that's simply them displaying their hypocrisy. It's the whole caught-in-the-act of offering quid pro quo on promising government appointments to high profile supporters that actually breaks the law.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    7. Re:So that makes it OK then by TykeClone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's all good - the FBI will never find intent.

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    8. Re:So that makes it OK then by rwyoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released?

      Violations of campaign finance law: http://www.rollingstone.com/po...

    9. Re:So that makes it OK then by Notorious+G · · Score: 5, Informative

      What crimes would those be? Seriously, I'm curious. What crimes have been revealed by the DNC emails that were released? Staffers at the DNC didn't much like a number of members of Sanders's staff. Some of them preferred Clinton. Good policy? Maybe, maybe not, but not a crime by any definition of the term.

      The crime exposed by the DNC emails is money laundering. In those, they discuss how to move money from very wealthy donors making big deposits through a DNC fund for "down ticket" candidates (like state and local races). Huge donors with money, adhering to campaign finance laws, make deposits into the Clinton campaign (HFA). But they want more money to go to her so they direct the majority of it into something called the Hillary Victory Fund which is operated by the DNC. From there it's split again between state level party operations and the DNC, also to avoid limits. However, it's not at the state party accounts long, in fact, it's often there so briefly that the state level treasurers managing don't even have time to see it hit the account before it's gone and it's "donated" back to the DNC, essentially having been 'washed' through the sate accounts. The DNC then used the money to support the Clinton campaign.

      tl:dr - the DNC laundered money to circumvent campaign finance law and support Hillary.

    10. Re:So that makes it OK then by guises · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're referring to a law prohibiting the "promise of appointment" - i.e.: selling appointed positions. Where in the DNC emails did this happen?

      The worst that I've seen so far is the bit about the DNC favoring Hillary over Bernie. Which has nothing to do with selling appointed positions.

    11. Re:So that makes it OK then by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2

      Fraud.

      Nope, it's not. Specifically, there is no intent to deprive a person of their legal right and the person was in no worse position than when they started. Simply saying, "Bernie is better" does not a true statement make. That is an opinion.

      So nope, not fraud. If it was fraud then pretty much every political organization and member therein would be guilty of it at some point.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    12. Re:So that makes it OK then by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 3

      The democrats are not a liberal party. They are a center right party at best.

      So its no surprise they are hypocrites...

    13. Re:So that makes it OK then by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 3, Informative

      No no, for it to be fraud, you need to have lied in performance of a contract. Like when a billionaire tycoon lies about the zoning of a building subjecting his buyers to unexpected taxes, exceptionally high mortgage rates, and half the expected resale value. That's fraud.

    14. Re:So that makes it OK then by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      The Russians want Trump to be President. That bears repeating a couple of times. Just think about why that might be.

      Devout Republican George Will[*] is saying that he thinks the reason Trump won't release his tax returns is because they would show how much he is in bed with the Russian oligarchy.

      [*]Think what you will of Will, but he's got putdown-fu. After some recent fuss with Trump he said "He has the advantage on me - I can't say everything I know about a topic in 140 characters."

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    15. Re:So that makes it OK then by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Informative

      The faux laziness of Hillary supporters who want to maintain the ability to pretend they're unaware of her and her campaign's corruption never ceases to amaze. I know, that whole google searching thing is laborious, isn't it?

      http://dailycaller.com/2016/07...

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    16. Re:So that makes it OK then by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      And if the emails were in fact edited the DNC and Wasserman-Schultz wouldn't say anything in their own defense, would they?

      See what's happening, though? FUD. Fear of Russia, uncertainty and doubt about the correctness of the emails. Don't focus on the content, it's doubtful and uncertain that they are accurate, anyway. Remember, Russia had a hand in this. We've been historic enemies over the past 2/3 of a century or so. Don't read the emails, just vote for Hillary anyway. Allegations of corruption cannot be proven. Russia had a hand. The Russians want Trump. Fear Russia. Fear Trump. Don't read the emails. Vote for Hillary.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    17. Re:So that makes it OK then by guises · · Score: 2

      Okay, thanks. That's tells me where it's coming from anyway, though the logic in that article is god-awful. "Why would the word 'USPS' show up next to the name of someone who was nominated for a position at the USPS? It must be a conspiracy!"

    18. Re:So that makes it OK then by Dread_ed · · Score: 2

      So what you are saying is that its completely acceptable for a party organization to become a secret arm of the election committee of a single candidate, divert funds from all other candidates to the anointed candidate, and promise that once that candidate is in office large donors will receive political appointment in a federal government position.

      As long as the candidate who gets elected doesn't offer it themselves, its acceptable. Of course that candidate will make the appointment, but they didn't offer it directly. One of their minions did, which makes is completely OK. Nothing to see, move along. Right?

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    19. Re:So that makes it OK then by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      tl:dr - the DNC laundered money to circumvent campaign finance law and support Hillary.

      "circumventing" isn't the same as "violating". Are you alleging that they violated the law?

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  3. Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" by mveloso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not sure the press is smart enough to understand that use of a Russian VPN means they're working for the Russian government...but I'd expect /. editors to understand at least the basics of, you know, connectivity.

    1. Re:Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" by dj245 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Reading shit headlines like that always brings home the fact that most reporters are almost completely ignorant about the subject matter at hand, and will generally spew whatever their "sources" tell them, even if the primary article says something completely different.

      Who did the hacking is irrelevant. It's just a distraction. Nobody (that we know of) made those DNC staffers and managers write what they wrote. The inner workings of both major US political parties as it relates to rewarding large donors, choosing party candidates, and dealing with "disruptive" candidates is very ugly. The emails show this. Looking out for the average person is clearly at the bottom of the list of their priorities. This could have easily happened to the RNC (if it hasn't already) and a similar pile of shit would likely be unearthed.

      This shouldn't be a partisan issue. Those who make it partisan are just sweeping "their side's" problems under the rug and allowing the problem to continue. The way we pick presidential candidates is really, really, bad. The primary system gives too much power to those with strong and vocal opinions. The disapproval ratings for the DNC and RNC candidates are at record high levels and speak for themselves. At this point, a random lottery would be better than the current system. We do this dance every 4 years and it isn't getting better. By November, people will have forgotten all about the primaries and nothing will change.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    2. Re:Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" by kqs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who did the hacking is irrelevant. It's just a distraction.

      I only partly agree with this. If a foreign country is trying to affect our elections, that's something worth considering. Especially because if they'll do something minor like this they may do something major and less-easily-traced later.

      The inner workings of both major US political parties as it relates to rewarding large donors, choosing party candidates, and dealing with "disruptive" candidates is very ugly. This could have easily happened to the RNC (if it hasn't already) and a similar pile of shit would likely be unearthed.

      This is very true. The DNC was unhappy with Sanders, but never thought he had a chance of winning and didn't do much against him. Some talk, but no action.

      The RNC, OTOH, has been in an existential fight with Trump for the past year. They probably had a LOT more talk and probably more action. (Totally ineffective action, true, but action nonetheless.)

      I really don't know how primaries should work. As you say, primaries currently give too much power to those with strong and vocal opinions. Caucuses are even worse. Open primaries let people outside the party have a say, which may or may not be a good idea. The old method of "smoke filled backroom deals" doesn't seem an improvement.

      The disapproval ratings for the DNC and RNC candidates are at record high levels and speak for themselves

      That's a red herring. The DNC candidate has been under near-constant "investigations" (which have produced close to zero evidence or crimes) for more than two decades and has little charisma; that's gonna cause disapproval from those who like investigations but dislike evidence. The RNC candidates have insulted just about every cultural, ethnic, and gender-based group in the country. It's a perfect storm, but neither one seems tied to the parties.

    3. Re:Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      I would counter that the DNC candidate has had investigation that have produced mountains of evidence, but despite this no charges have been brought to bring her to trial. Your "little charisma" could also be interpreted as an ego and nonchalant attitude about lying to the public. You can make any argument you want about whether or not Hillary is a criminal, but there is no way to argue she hasn't blatantly lied to the American public at every stage of every investigation and has the arrogance to ask investigators what difference it makes.

      Note that you will probably now accuse me of supporting Trump because you can only defend Hillary with a "Trump is even worse" argument. I don't support Trump either because he's also lying to the public about everything.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    4. Re:Russian VPN != "Works for Russia" by jittles · · Score: 2

      That's a red herring. The DNC candidate has been under near-constant "investigations" (which have produced close to zero evidence or crimes) for more than two decades and has little charisma; that's gonna cause disapproval from those who like investigations but dislike evidence. The RNC candidates have insulted just about every cultural, ethnic, and gender-based group in the country. It's a perfect storm, but neither one seems tied to the parties.

      Okay I have to burn mod points to disagree with this statement. The FBI director just said a few weeks ago that Hillary Clinton broke the law. Then, with his own mouth, added words that don't exist to the applicable Civil Code claiming that Hillary did not show intent. There was no intent required. She volunteered to be given trust, was briefed on that trust countless times (you're required to be briefed at least once a year by the FBI or DIA), and just said "I'm too important for these silly rules." And what did the FBI basically say? She's too big to indict. I've said this countless times - if I had done what she did when I was in the position of dealing with DoD data, I would already be in jail!

  4. Yea Sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the same people who said...
    "No classified email on my server"
    "No material on my email that was classified at the time"
    "No material marked classified on my server"
    "I handed over all work related emails"
    "The DNC did not collude to keep Sanders from winning"
    "The DNC doesn't work with news media to plant stories against Sanders"

    If they ever got caught telling the truth once, this might be believable. Who hacked the DNC server doesn't matter, what matters is how corrupt the DNC is from the content of the emails. They did their best to disenfranchise their base. Your vote doesn't mean anything to them, only their power and they are willing to lie, cheat and steal to keep that power and extend it over you.

    What a joke the DNC is. How long till Debbie Waserman Schultz gets another high paid job thanks to Clinton? Oops, already happened, so corrupt she had to be fired from the DNC but is still truthful enough to work for Clinton.

    1. Re:Yea Sure by Yunzil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you're saying that somehow the DNC generated 3.7 million more votes for Clinton than Sanders?

      How, exactly?

    2. Re:Yea Sure by smugfunt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you're saying that somehow the DNC generated 3.7 million more votes for Clinton than Sanders?

      We often discuss voting machines here. We don't like them.
      Smoking gun?

    3. Re:Yea Sure by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 2

      So you're saying that somehow the DNC generated 3.7 million more votes for Clinton than Sanders?

      How, exactly?

      I have some distant cousins who are huge Sanders supporters, so I can comment on this. Basically the really hardcore supporters are claiming that votes for Sanders were either not counted at all or given to Clinton instead. Depends on who is telling this conspiracy theory which one they go with. And yes, they do truly believe that they had the votes to win every state (or almost every state) and the DNC was conspiring against them to steal the primary for Hillary. And this was all what they were saying before the Wikileaks event.

  5. Jesus H. Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is this some pathetic attempt at political spin or misdirection?

    1. "At this point, what difference does it make" who he was working for? Are the emails themselves not blatant enough for anyone?

    2. What kind of half-assed chicken-shit "Security researchers" draw a connection between Putin's government and a Russian based malware serving IP address? I won't for a second deny that Russia and Putin's goverenment work extensively in hacking the wold. But, there are literally thousands of malware servers in Russia that Putin's government knows nothing about.

  6. Why does this matter? by kwiecmmm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real issue is the fact that DNC tried to stop Bernie with a few underhanded tactics.

    The DNC is now trying to redirect the focus everyone to say the Russians did this rather than asking why Bernie didn't get a fair shot or why Hilary was basically given a free pass. I am more worried about why these emails were written in the first place and why the people at the DNC were stupid enough to think their email server couldn't be hacked.

    1. Re:Why does this matter? by CaptainLard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And the OTHER real issue is that we have as close to proof that makes no difference that Russia, a country who's leader is trying his best to restore the glory days of the cold war, is actively screwing with our general election.

      Sure the DNC should be impartial but to suggest we ignore Russia's attempt to influence our democratic process (however flawed it may be) is asinine, especially given they seem to have chosen a side. There two big problems here and both should be addressed!

    2. Re:Why does this matter? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Even Sanders realizes that the bias of DNC is not the reason he lost. If he thinks the election was stolen from him, he would not have endorsed HRC as strongly as he did. The email shows the normal palace intrigue, backstabbing and gossip. It is not even as embarrassing as the Sony leak. No ethnic jokes, no racist jokes being forwarded.

      If you put a secret microphone near the watercooler of any American company and release raw audio and transcript of all the talk, you would find lot more sleazy things than what you find in the DNC email dump.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. If you can't attack the message... by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ....attack the messenger.

    Isn't that pretty much Lawyer Response 101?

    Dovetails nicely with the purported "vast Right Wing conspiracy", doesn't it?

    If a hacker reveals illegal conduct, is it "less illegal" if the hacker is Russian?
    I haven't noticed anyone asserting the emails are not genuine.

    --
    -Styopa
  8. Re:doesn't matter by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Republicans are so inept, that they had nothing to do with this! This is all on the DNC and DWS and the entire Clintonista Crime Family. They own this, full and completely. The DNC is proven to be just as homophobic (no HOMO), racist (Taco Bowl) and Sexist ("bimbo" comment). I mean, if this was the GOP doing these things it would be front page of the NYT, but since the DNC has also been found colluding with the media to control the narrative ... several times ... this is just what everyone already knew, we just have a shit ton of smoking guns now.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  9. Re:Why is this not bad for Drumpf? by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Informative

    Please provide examples of this buddy-buddy relationship you're describing, which appears to be exactly the opposite of reality.

    Drumpf has praised Putin many times on the campaign trail. This has made the news numerous times. If you don't watch the news and don't know how to use a search engine I don't see how I can help you.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  10. Re:Who cares..?? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Trump campaign welcomes your endorsement.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  11. Re:Who cares..?? by Yunzil · · Score: 2

    "I supported Bernie Sanders but now I'm going to ignore everything he said."

  12. Re:Who cares..?? by kqs · · Score: 2

    For future reference, you look like less of a troll if you use fewer *****STARS*****.

  13. And still people won't vote for Gary Johnson by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One party nominated a racist. The other party nominated a serial liar. And still, I bet the Libertarian and Green parties won't get 5% of the vote. I suspect that Hillary and Trump could beat American children in public while shouting "America sucks" and we still wouldn't get a third-party into office.

    My favorite is the guy attending the RNC, wearing the "STOP TRUMP" t-shirt, who said he would vote for Trump. **NUCLEAR FACEPALM**

    1. Re:And still people won't vote for Gary Johnson by dcollins · · Score: 2

      "The other party nominated a serial liar."

      In an analysis of the top 20 national politicians, scores from nonpartisan PolitiFact indicate that Hillary Clinton is actual the most truthful candidate of all, excepting only Barack Obama. On the other hand, Donald Trump is the single-most lying candidate of the past year.

      http://www.mormonpress.com/lying_liars_who_lie_2016_edition

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  14. "What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Who cares who hacked them. This is just a deflection.

    It's what's IN THEM that is the story behind the curtain nobody wants you to see

    1. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who cares who hacked them. This is just a deflection.

      This is spot on.

      I'm likely still going to vote for Hillary (as opposed to not voting) because the alternative is President Trump - but I really don't care who brought the emails to light, since it's obvious they're not phony.

      On a side note - the Republicans had the most winnable presidential race in decades, handed to them on a silver platter. So they decided to nominate just about the most unelectable candidate imaginable. Unbelievable.
       

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Voting for the lesser of two evils still means you;re voting for evil.

      Seriously - it's like saying "Oh, I'm voting for Stalin because that Hitler guy is just nasty..."

      Given the current state of dissatisfaction with the current duopoly, I'm amazed that folks aren't moving to 3rd parties more often these days. I mean, seriously, if there were ever a time when it could really make a difference...

      But then, most people who claim to have an ideology are driven more by fear than by their own conscience these days...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by internerdj · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair, the Republicans managed to toss the Democrats the most easily defeatable opponent ever in someone who is consistently offensive to nearly everyone including most of the party he is nominated for and the Democrats still couldn't actually field someone who could soundly beat him.

    4. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by Gavagai80 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A lot of people (not myself, I'm voting Stein) may have mainstream political views which are much better represented by the major parties than by any of the half dozen or so minor parties likely to be on their ballot, but still dislike the individual candidates of the major parties.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    5. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On an evil scale, hillary is somewhere north of the coyote. She's a wonk and a bureaucrat with a ton of government experience. The most likely negative outcome of her term is more of the same.

      Trump is actually dangerous.

      So sure.. voting for 36 vs 48 on the evil scale is still voting for evil.

      But voting for 11 vs 48 on the evil scale is not the same thing.

      Trump is a sociopath and a narcissist. He's an idiot too and Putin will own him repeatedly. Just having Trump as a candidate has weakened our standing with almost all of our allies which means harder to get treaties, harder to build coalitions, harder to oppose hostiles.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    6. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 2

      On a side note - the Republicans had the most winnable presidential race in decades, handed to them on a silver platter. So they decided to nominate just about the most unelectable candidate imaginable. Unbelievable.;

      My observation is that the two political parties have an agreement that they will pick candidates in the league, much like how boxing or wrestling have opponents from the same weight class. Thus if the Democrats were going to run Hillary, as the leaked emails clearly show that they were going to do no matter what it took, the Republicans had no choice but to run Trump.

    7. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by mr_mischief · · Score: 2

      It's odd that nobody in the press seems to be holding anyone's feet to the fire about the contents. Nobody's disavowed the contents. We got one useless resignation after her apparent goal was already apparently successful -- get Clinton nominated at all costs.

    8. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by cstepan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is exactly the same sort of thing that started the Watergate scandal: breaking into the DNC looking for dirt. This is theft, pure and simple. The fact that it may be a foreign government attempting to influence our elections by using illegally obtained information just might be a bit concerning. So yeah, you should care how they got out.

    9. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by slew · · Score: 2

      Trump is a sociopath and a narcissist.

      I think nearly all politicians fall into that category. Including (and esp) H.R.C. That's basically a no-op comment.

      He's an idiot too and Putin will own him repeatedly.

      Quite likely true, but apparently, Putin feels threatened by recent HRC actions and is likely to escalate tensions. I don't know which is worse: having an isolationist like Trump or a warmonger like HRC...

      Perhaps we should take comfort in the fact that her wallstreet buddies not wanting the economy to crash might reign in those warmongering tendencies, but somehow a candidate being owned by wallstreet doesn't feel like it should go into the "+" column...

    10. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not surprising. Dig into some of the emails and you will find discussions among DNC staffers about various articles they have received from journalists for approval before they are submitted to their editors! The media is complicit and circling the wagons around their own.

    11. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by jeremy.brown3327 · · Score: 2

      What a bunch of crap. The President is hardly powerless, and a President Trump should be terrifying to any thinking American. Simply hinting that the United States will not stand by NATO could result in Russian aggression in the Baltics and Central Asia and general destabilization in Europe. Nominating even worse Supreme Court Justices than Bush could result in further erosion of the civil liberties gained in the last 50 years. If you're unhappy about Citizen's United, just wait for Trump's nominees. While Hillary has not taken what I consider to be principled stands on many issues, such as approving Dick Cheney's war in Iraq, she is basically leftish middle of the road as far as congress goes. While I would have preferred the option to vote Sanders, the "incompetent warmonger" tag could , by your logic, be applied to most of congress for the past 200 years.

    12. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by dfenstrate · · Score: 2

      To be fair, the Republicans managed to toss the Democrats the most easily defeatable opponent ever in someone who is consistently offensive to nearly everyone including most of the party he is nominated for and the Democrats still couldn't actually field someone who could soundly beat him.

      There was never a Democratic presidential nomination contest. Hillary's victory this week was decided on years ago. Maybe Bernie was the last to be told, but didn't you think it strange that the Dem contest was just Hillary vs. Bernie (plus the occasional third guy)?
      The Republicans had over a dozen people vying for the spot, and say what you like about the man, but Trump got the votes, and the Republican establishment hated it. It was a real contest.

      --
      Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    13. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On a side note - the Republicans had the most winnable presidential race in decades, handed to them on a silver platter. So they decided to nominate just about the most unelectable candidate imaginable. Unbelievable.

      Yep, the Democrats parry by nominating a divisive, corrupt politician who is the #2 most disliked candidate in the history of presidential polling. The only person who is more disliked is her opponent. And then they go and find the most vanilla VP pick that no one outside of his state has ever heard of. They are intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

      It makes me wonder about all of their justifications. Now the convention is all about "we must defeat Trump!" If defeating Trump was so important to the Democratic party, then why the hell did they nominate the candidate who's untrusted and corrupt and is going to have a serious uphill battle to beat Trump? Why not just nominate the guy who consistently beat Trump in polls? I mean, if their stated goal is to defeat Trump, then why do anything else? Of course that's a trick question; their goal is not to defeat Trump and never has been, their only goal since the primaries started is to elect Hillary. It just so happens that the Republicans managed to nominate the only candidate who is actually more disliked than Hillary, so now the Democrats have a great boogeyman.

      There's also the line about, "hey we've got the most progressive platform evar! Like 80% of Bernie's platform is there!" OK, if Bernie's platform is so great then why does Hillary get to be the president and not Bernie? If you really want those platform policies to be implemented and actually worked on, why not elect the guy who has been shouting about them for years? Why shove through a person who only adopted them because it was either adopt or die? Do you really think she's going to stick to that platform once she gets her foot in the door?

      Regardless of all of that stuff though, I still can't vote for Hillary, and some people have a hard time understanding why. The major reason I supported Sanders wasn't because of his policy positions, it was because he legitimately wants to see an end to the political corruption caused by very large amounts of money in the political system. In my opinion, Hillary is a perfect example of that kind of corruption, the kind that I want removed from government. Since I see Bernie as the solution to the problem represented by Hillary, if I am not allowed to vote for the solution then I'm not just going to turn around and vote for the problem. I will not vote for the problem. I will cast my vote for a smaller party who will appreciate my vote far more than either Hillary or Trump will (just like I did in the previous election), and vote for someone else who at least is not part of the problem. And if the Democrats want to bitch and moan about that, and try to place any blame on me for them not getting enough votes to beat Trump, I'll be happy to remind them that there was a very easy way to ensure that they would have beaten Trump, but they decided to go with the corrupt one instead.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    14. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is no such person that could 'soundly beat him' because most people just vote party line with little more concern than the D or R.

      If only the Democrats had a candidate who could energize a young, large field of first-time voters in a way that no other Democrat can.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    15. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by GLMDesigns · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except Trump will have less of a chance of getting stupidity done (compared to Hillary)

      Congress will be united against Trump stupidities. Republican establishment hates him. SoCons (Social Conservatives) hate and don't trust him (He's for Planned Parenthood, pro-choice). Small Government types are against him (he's for Eminent Domain seizures, pro-gun control) so he's not going to have a pass in Congress for anything.

      The media will do it's duty in vetting and exposing things.

      Now with Hillary - there will be no push-back from either the media or the Dem congress. Any objections, no matter how valid, will be described as the rantings of right-wing lunatics.

      I am a #NeverTrump and a #NeverHillary. Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    16. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by quax · · Score: 2

      If you are surprised by anything in these emails you haven't been paying attention. Politics in the US is a blood sport.

      Nor should it be surprising to anyone that Putin wants Trump in power.

      The only slightly surprising thing about this story is that the Russian secret service was sloppy enough to get caught.

    17. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by quax · · Score: 2

      I think nearly all politicians fall into that category. Including (and esp) H.R.C. That's basically a no-op comment.

      Nope.

      Olberman went through a nice exercise to apply a standard medical triage test for personality disorder. It's pretty long, but he plays it straight. This GOP candidate clearly falls outside the category of your normal political malfeasance.

      http://www.vanityfair.com/news...

       

    18. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Absent a system that includes a run-off election the reality is that a vote for a 3rd party candidate is a vote for the least preferred candidate. Unless the American system changes, voting for a third-party, particularly in the presidential election is the very definition of "totally f**king stupid." Protest votes give you exactly opposite of what you desire.

      The only way to effect any kind of change in the American two-party system is to do precisely what Bernie Sanders did. He caused the democrats to add his causes to their platform. It's not an ideal win but it is a win nonetheless. Everyone making an anti-Hillary protest vote is voting against your own interests. It ensures that everything Bernie stood for, everything democrats generally stand for--in this case probably even what republicans stand for--goes the exact opposite direction. In my mind at least that makes you worse than the unthinking masses buying every bombastic line coming out of Trump's rectum.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    19. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by colin_faber · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who got caught? Did you read the article? Did you actually visit ThreatConnect's website and read their best guess? Based on the evidence they presented, it only suggests that a Russian VPN provider was involved in the obfuscation of the originating network. The rest of the analysis is click-bait speculation and should be disregarded.

    20. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 2

      The executive pen is unimaginably powerful. Do not be deceived. That pen can both shut down Congressional actions, and can take drastic unilateral authoritarian actions. With that pen nations become dust and glass, economies collapse, liberties vanquished, lives exterminated. The presidency is not the place for someone whose thin-skinned, vengeful, petulant, egotistical, and self-serving.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    21. Re: "What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by bestweasel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Trump's ghostwriter spent 18 months with him and thinks he's a sociopath.

      If he were writing âoeThe Art of the Dealâ today, Schwartz said, it would be a very different book with a very different title. Asked what he would call it, he answered, âoeThe Sociopath.â

      http://www.newyorker.com/magaz...

    22. Re:"What Difference Does It Make?!?!?!" by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Except Trump will have less of a chance of getting stupidity done

      A vast amount of stupidity has been done to get him this far so I'd say you are being a bit overconfident that normal services will be resumed so easily.

      Any objections, no matter how valid, will be described as the rantings of right-wing lunatics

      So? If they have enough numbers (which is likely) those rantings will still block someone who respects the Republic, Democracy and the rule of law.

  15. Quite possibly bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To my knowledge, ThreatConnect was paid by the DNC to do this investigation, and the company that owns the news source used as a reference here (The Daily Beast is owned by IAC) has Chelsea Clinton on their board of directors.

    I would not draw any conclusions until this is independently confirmed.

  16. Re:Why is this not bad for Drumpf? by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Putin does not seem to be one to shy away from using extralegal measures to silence people he doesn't agree with, is that what you are suggesting Drumpf might want some tips on to solve "mutual problems"? Certainly Putin is much closer philosophically with Drumpf than he is with anyone from the democratic party; do you expect he has a good method for Drumpf to use to deal with pesky liberals and socialists?

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  17. In Russia by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 2

    Do they blame all of their cyber-problems on " Those American Hackers " ?

    Or is it just this country where we blame whatever the problem of the week is on whatever country has a higher "Evil Quotient" at the time ?
    ( Usually Russia, China or Iran if you've noticed the trend )

  18. Russia, DNC, and NATO by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I rifled through the emails eagerly looking for stuff, but I was disappointed- I couldn't find anything except suspicious use of pronouns (we/us vs they/them). It was all fluffing up of bland talking points. These clowns couldn't rig an election if their life depended on it.

    And I also said that they shouldn't be claiming their emails are hacked by Russians, after all we've been hearing about hacked emails for the past year. They may be telling the truth, but making the argument at all is bad optics.

    But then I hear this from Trump yesterday, clarifying his previous statements on NATO, which makes the Russian involvement seem more suspicious:

    NATO. They ask me about NATO. Right? You saw that the other day, Meet the Press.

    "Well, I hear you want to give up NATO..." I don't want to give up NATO. I like... NATO's fine. But they gotta pay. They gotta pay.

    So we have all of these countries, and they're not paying. They're not paying. And we're protecting them.

    And the question is: "If such-and-such a country were attacked, are you willing to start World War 3?" Because that's essentially what's happening. They don't pay.

    They say, "Well, we have a treaty!" So they have these articles: "Donald Trump wants to give up NATO." No no no. I don't want to give up anything. I want them to pay.

    We're a country. It's not 40 years ago, 50 years ago. And now, most people in this audience don't even know, that we're protecting Japan, China, we're protecting Germany! Nothing but money.

    We're protecting Saudi Arabia. If we weren't around, Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia wouldn't be around for two weeks. We protect Saudi Arabia. They don't pay us what that should be paying. We're losing everything. Folks, we lose on everything.

    We protect South Korea. We have 28,000 soldiers on the line, against the maniac on the right. We have 28,000 soldiers against North Korea, separated. Pretty dangerous stuff, considering he's got a million-person army. Pretty dangerous stuff.

    So we're doing all this, and yet they're paying us a fraction of what it is.

    I saw it with Japan. And by the way, I think it's fine- but they've got to pay us. We don't have the money. They gotta pay us. And they will pay us if the right person asks. If the right person asks. They will. They will.

    Do you have any idea the difference that makes for our country if we get countries to take care of us the way they should.

    We had a general recently, because we've been doing this, and he said, "Mr. Trump doesn't understand that Japan is paying almost 50 percent of the cost of what we do for them." And I said, why not 100 percent? Why? Tell me why. Tell me why.

    Folks, we're run by incompetent people and it's going to end. And it's going to end soon. Because people aren't taking it anymore.

    Now, when I talk about we're going to protect Japan, which is great, now, you always have to be prepared to walk. And I said, in one of the articles, they said, "Now what would happen if they didn't pay." I said, âoeWe have to walk."

    Hillary Clinton said, "He wants to walk from Japan!" Now, see, what she did, she makes it impossible to negotiate. She's not a negotiator. She's a fool. She's a fool. No, she's a fool.

    Because when you tell Japan- very smart people, great people, I have many friends there- but when you say you're not prepared to walk, you'll never walk? So she said, "How dare he say that! We will never walk!"

    Then they're never going to pay us. We may have to walk! Folks, we may have to walk.

    But- the same thing with Germany. We're spending a fortune in Germany. Same thing with Saudi Arabia. Let me tell you. Saudi Arabia? So we'll say this: "Folks, you gotta pay us. You gotta pay us. Sorry."

    They're gonna say no. Bye-bye! Within two days, they're calling back, "Get back over here, we'll pay you whatever the hell you want."

    OK? One hundred percent.

    But whe

    1. Re:Russia, DNC, and NATO by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      I rifled through the emails eagerly looking for stuff, but I was disappointed-

      Colbert found the best one in a suggestion thread:

      "Eat my butt"

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  19. Re:A tax-exempt non-profit organization .... by bigfinger76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Irrelevant.

  20. Did Trump get Russians to give Clinton millions? by Maltheus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't remember this much controversy when the Russians were giving millions to the Clinton Foundation to award them with a giant uranium deal. Don't shoot the messenger on this one. She is what she is.

  21. Re:Why is this not bad for Drumpf? by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

    There is video of Donald Trump Jr saying just a year or two ago that the bulk of the Trump corporation profits now come from Russia.

    I've been wondering if they affixed Reagan to some magnets by now because the Republican party backing a candidate that supports and admires (by his own words) a former KGB officer who's been running practice bombing runs on the US mainland for the last couple years along with threatening to abandon the NATO alliance and leave Europe in a lurch has got to have Reagan doing about 2000 RPM's and that's one hell of a source of energy right there.

    The Irony is apparently lost on those who believe in a person 99% of them will openly admit is a liar, he's just not *wink* *wink* lying about the things they care about. Trump spits on the entire Legacy of Reagan and he's using Reagan's Election slogan! My god you've got people screaming about communists in the democratic party while at the same time supporting the guy that claims he respects the foreign one and will abandon allies we protected from being overrun by the same communists. You couldn't make this stuff up, if you tried no one would believe you because it's so outlandish.

  22. America by DMJC · · Score: 2

    The Democratic party has a huge problem. It's also a pretty simple problem: If the US equivalent of the Australian Electoral commission got caught picking a favourite between one of the two major parties there would be a royal commission and a complete overhaul of our political system. The Democratic Party in America should be showing the same level of impartiality between candidates as the Electoral Commission does. It hasn't, and now people are rightly pissed off. This issue isn't going to go away. They have a serious problem on their hands and I don't think that merely putting Sanders on the ballot to run against Hillary for the nomination is enough to fix it.

    1. Re:America by sabbede · · Score: 2
      You're right in spirit, but missed some of the details. Which makes perfect sense if you aren't familiar with America's electoral system, because it can be a bit odd.

      Each party has a Primary election to select its Presidential candidate. Primaries aren't official elections, they're internal party elections, and each party has a State committee that runs the primary in that State - The Illinois State Democratic Committee runs the Democrat primary in Illinois, same for Texas and so forth. Internal party matters, like primaries, are considered private political matters, and not subject to the same laws as the General election.

      So, how the primary is organized, who can vote and who can run is a tangled mess of National party rules, State laws, and each State party's rules. The Federal Election Committee keeps an eye on donations, but that's about it for primaries. The General election, between the winners of each primary, is much more closely supervised, and if the FEC biased it there would be hell to pay.

      But this was a Primary. The Party only has to follow its own rules, and if they are broken, the Party decides what to do about it. So even though they effectively rigged an election, it was their election and they aren't going to do anything about it. The party chairwoman resigned, but the orchestrator is still going to be nominated as the candidate, while the "disgraced" former chair's only punishment is having to take a high level position in Hillary's campaign.

      No, you read that right. Her punishment is a promotion. The job doesn't pay in cash though, it pays in power and influence, possibly a cabinet seat.

      And you probably thought Parliamentary democracy was messy.

  23. IN SOVIET RUSSIA...I..I just cant do it.... by TiggertheMad · · Score: 2, Informative

    Conspiring to violate 18 USC/599 is a federal crime.

    Assuming that the e-mail is authentic. It might well be, but there should be some serious scrutiny of any evidence that has been 'dug up' by Russian intelligence running false flag ops to influence US elections. They might just be up to something....

    Trump and Putin, what a pair they would make...I bet they would get on like Hitler and Mussolini...

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    1. Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA...I..I just cant do it.... by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If that conspiracy theory were true, wouldn't you think the DNC would be screaming outright about them somehow being fake, instead of trying to hand-wave so much over them?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA...I..I just cant do it.... by mr_mischief · · Score: 2

      Why bother saying where the content is collected if it's fake? Wouldn't it be more effective to say they weren't authentic than agreeing they were real leaks and that the DNC is just not okay with the Russians leaking them?

  24. Re:Who cares..?? by blue+trane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Vote for divided govt so Trump can't get anything done. A blocked Trump is better than President Hillary.

  25. Re:Who cares..?? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No conspiracy necessary. His campaign is over, he didn't get the nomination, now he's recommending that his supporters make the best of a bad situation and elect a ho-hum stay-the-course centrist, the only candidate who can realistically win enough votes to keep a bigoted, inept and childish protofascist from winning the presidency.

    If you have to step in a dog turd to dodge a bullet, you do it. It's the smart and sensible choice.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  26. Re:doesn't matter by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find the DNC to be much more racist. If you actually listen to what they say about blacks and minorities, it is as if they are COMPLETELY incapable of doing anything normal because of some pigment condition.

    "voter ID, disenfranchises Blacks" How exactly does pigment affect getting ID? The same ID that is required to hold a job, get liquor, buy a gun, Open a bank account ....

    "Removing a slate vote (single box ballot) disenfranchises Black people" Are blacks somehow unable to select each candidate individually? Oh, I realize that this is nothing more than a way to get upwards of 85% of them voting for the DNC slate.

    I just find the whole idea that Blacks are somehow incapable of doing normal things highly racist. Yes, even if it is under the best of intentions. And if I were a black person, I would be really pissed.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  27. Re:Who cares..?? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

    It may be sensible if you live in a swing state, but it's completely nonsensical if you live in a solid blue or solid red state. Your vote for Clinton/Trump does nothing, your vote for a third party actually influences the major parties much more.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  28. Re:Who cares..?? by danbert8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes, why vote against Hillary or Trump when you can vote against BOTH HILLARY AND TRUMP!

    Vote third party, ANY third party. If you really want to stick it to them, vote for the most likely 3rd party Gary Johnson because if he wins even a few electoral votes, it could prevent either candidate from securing the election and the House of Representatives will have to make the call. You can't just not vote or write in, because those don't get counted and thus might as well be a vote for the status quo.

    --
    Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
  29. Stupid is as stupid reads on the Interneyt by TiggertheMad · · Score: 2

    First off, by referring to the question I asked as a 'conspiracy theory', you are suggesting that asking questions about the chain of evidence and motives of the parties involved is somehow a crazy crank idea. Subtle straw man type suggestion, there spanky.

    It is possible that the DNC isn't saying anything on the advice of lawyers, or at the request of the FBI, CIA, NSA, military or other federal agencies, who are undoubtedly investigating the hell out of this. This was a cyber attack by a hostile foreign intelligence agency, not some script kiddies defacing a AOL web page, so there are going to be a lot of people looking into this.

    It is also possible that the DNC is still trying to work out what is real and what isn't. A smart way to manipulate this sort of info is to leave 99% alone, and just change a few key things so there is an air of authenticity about it. It would take a little time to properly work out the dif of the two streams.

    To be clear: I never said that the email isn't 100% authentic. I am just pointing out that only a truly stupid person wouldn't start asking a lot of questions about this info considering the source.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  30. Re:Logic by kqs · · Score: 2

    So people within our borders actively manipulating the elections is fine, but someone outside of our elections proving the fraud most of us suspected is bad. Got it.

    People are more likely to take you seriously if you don't construct straw men.

    Citizens are generally allowed to "actively manipulate elections". One form is called "voting", another is called "free speech". There is evidence that the DNC did not want Sanders to win, but unless you found something that everyone else missed, there is no evidence that they DID anything. Unless you are calling for Thought Crime?

    On the other hand, there are few ways that foreign powers are legally allowed to influence elections. (Sadly our case is weakened since the US seems to have done this a number of times. We're masters of Do What I Say.)

    That is a Red Herring. Sanders was the only candidate allowed to compete and Hillary is so bad she would have lost if not for the cheating in the party.

    "Allowed to compete"? Citation Needed. "so bad she would have lost"? Citation Needed. Please either quote the specific emails which prove these, or admit that you are making shit up.

    Look, I realize that you hate Hillary with the intensity of a thousand suns, but it turns out that many people like her. Many other people people may dislike her but try to base her fitness on "facts" not "rage". Personally I think she'll be very similar to Obama: Good for the economy, lower the deficit, improve the safety net and wealth inequality via the minimum wage and/or health care. Pretty good internationally, Fair for the environment, Pretty Poor from a privacy standpoint. Not perfect but a solid step towards a more liberal society. (Probably more so than Sanders would have; unless you are a dictator it's hard to make progress if you cannot compromise.) Turns out a lot of people agree with me.

    The Mark Twain quote about the 3 kinds of lies comes to mind reading this one. Hillary has a very long history of being viewed negatively. Her being under "investigations" does not sweep things under the rug, but is surely not the only issue with the negativity facing the person's statement. At least as important, these people (Hillary et. al) have all been found to be GUILTY of the charges people are investigating.

    So, Hillary is GUILTY of what? Killing Vince Foster? Parachuting into Benghazi and slaughtering dozens of Americans? Giving her emails to religious terrorists? Selling weapons to the enemies of America? Lying to the public to start needless wars? (Sorry, those last two were other presidents.)

    It sounds like you feel that "investigated" means GUILTY, and "no evidence" means GUILTY. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure how else to interpret your answer.

    A lot of people don't like her. Honestly, she's not a very likable person. But she seems competent, loyal to the US rather than just herself, and reasonably honest as politicians go. If you think the main skill set for the presidency should be likability, feel free to write in Miss America. If you want the president to be effective and liberal, though, she's one of the best choices you could make.

  31. Re:Who cares..?? by slew · · Score: 2

    I have no idea how these talking points about DT necessarily appointing ultra conservative justices makes any sense.

    Although it is highly unlikely to know what DT's position is on anything (he flip-flops all the time and talks off the cuff), his history of political donations doesn't indicate any ultra-conservative streak.

    Not saying DT is the best candidate for the job, but these specific irrational fear-mongering talking points aren't really making a good case to vote against him. DT is definitely not Ted Cruz.

    AFAIKT, both candidates attempted to throw a bone to the conservative wings of their respective parties by nominating Mike Pence and Tim Kaine.

    But stick to your talking points, if that's all you got...

    FWIW, that whole ultra-conservative justice talking point is mostly crapola this election cycle. Often this same talking point applied to the "Koch" brothers, but that's pretty misguided too. Politically, the Koch brothers can best be described as libertarian/progressive not ultra-conservative (and I think they are favoring, but not supporting HRC this year anyhow). That's like saying if you really feared the Koch brothers, don't vote HRC this time (wouldn't that be stupid).

    What I think that democrats really fear is a non-activist court that doesn't want to advance federal concerns over states rights, but that doesn't rile up the base as much as warning it's gonna be an "ultra-conservative" court as that also fools the libertarian leaning wings of the democratic party to fall in line with the liberal wing of the party.

  32. Squirrel! by sycodon · · Score: 2

    This is literally like shouting "Squirrel!"

    The Dems have gone off their fucking nut.

     

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  33. We DID vote for Stalin... by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 5, Informative

    Voting for the lesser of two evils still means you;re voting for evil.

    Seriously - it's like saying "Oh, I'm voting for Stalin because that Hitler guy is just nasty...

    You realize we sent Stalin a massive infusion of arms and armaments to help him keep fighting Hitler, and supported him despite his evil, right through V-E day? That we really preferred having Russian soldiers dying to having Americans dying, so we gave him all the help we could?

    Yes, there was a strong feeling in certain circles that when the eastern front met the western front, the fighting would continue and we'd wind up in a war with the Russians. But still, we absolutely supported evil when it was fighting another evil.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:We DID vote for Stalin... by Rakarra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You realize we sent Stalin a massive infusion of arms and armaments to help him keep fighting Hitler, and supported him despite his evil, right through V-E day? That we really preferred having Russian soldiers dying to having Americans dying, so we gave him all the help we could?

      Yes, there was a strong feeling in certain circles that when the eastern front met the western front, the fighting would continue and we'd wind up in a war with the Russians. But still, we absolutely supported evil when it was fighting another evil.

      I think it's generally considered good foreign politics two encourage two mortal enemies in their fight against each other.
      But the US also sent a lot of aid to Britain when they were fighting the Nazis and they were certainly not enemies.

  34. Re:Logic by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, Hillary is GUILTY of what? Killing Vince Foster? Parachuting into Benghazi and slaughtering dozens of Americans?

    Hillary's involvement is Benghazi is what disqualifies her for me.

    We first learn that there was an attack on the embassy and people, including the Ambassador, were killed.

    The we learn that this was a spontaneous riot due to anti-Islam movie made in the US.

    What does Hillary do? Does she defend free speech? No.

    Is this considered to be a teachable moment? Where we explain to the Muslim world that Freedom of Speech (which is the expression of Freedom of Thought) is to be respected and honored even if the opinions are disagreeable. (Yes the Muslim world would have brought forth hadiths and other religious commentary showing how insulting Islam is punishable by death and yadda, yadda yadda. This would have be the so-called teachable moment that so many people as so fond of having.

    But no. What happens? The film maker is prosecuted. An American citizen who made a horrible movie (I saw it. It a laughable movie, horrible acting, horrible writing.)

    Even if that was the end of the story Hillary would be the villain for kowtowing to religious nuts and for throwing free-speech under the bus.

    But it turns out the facts we learned from the administration was false.

    The spontaneous riot was a planned, well-executed attack. We had a carrier group within reach. We had hours to respond to the attack. The ambassador (it is relayed by French and other European news outlets - and believed by many, especially in the Muslim world) was gang raped before being tortured and killed.

    And still - the state department (read Hillary) blames the event on a pathetically bad movie.

    Why this charade? Because it was 8 weeks before the 2012 Presidential election. And, as we all knew. Al Quaeda was defeated; ISIS was the junior varsity team, and doofus Romney was channeling the 1980s for his "Russians" quote.

    No. Hillary is not acceptable. I actually think that Trump will be put in his place by Congress and the Media and we may have the fortunate outcome of rolling back the Imperial Presidency.

    #NeverTrump #NeverHillary - Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond

    --
    If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
    Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  35. Defeat Hitler by XXongo · · Score: 2

    Voting for the lesser of two evils still means you;re voting for evil.

    My political opinions are so variant from the mainsteam that I've never had the privilege of voting for a candidate who represents the way I think or solve problems. Every election I've voted in has always been a case of choosing the least-worst candidate.

    Frankly, the idea of not voting against the greater evil seems to be utterly brainless. Why would anybody knowingly let the greater evil win?

    Seriously - it's like saying "Oh, I'm voting for Stalin because that Hitler guy is just nasty..."

    First, you do know that the U.S. did ally with Stalin to defeat Hitler, right? Or does that piece of history just get glossed over these days?

    Are you saying we shouldn't have?

    And, second, the current candidates are really nothing like HItler nor Stalin. This is a Godwin's law reducto-ad-absurdum comparision, not relevant to the current election.

  36. Re:Logic by kqs · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hillary's involvement is Benghazi is what disqualifies her for me.

    [ Cutting a anti-H rant which disagrees with the events in every official Benghazi investigation ]

    We can agree on a few things:

          * There have been about 8 Benghazi investigations.
          * The first few focused on finding Obama at fault. After the 2014 election, they quickly pivoted to finding Hillary at fault.
          * Most, maybe all of them were controlled by Republicans
          * Republicans have very strong incentives to find Obama and Hillary at fault
          * Republicans are supported by a number of generous billionaires, who also have very strong incentives to find Obama and Hillary at fault.
          * Every investigation has returned largely the same results:
                * Hillary and Obama did not give complete information at first (while conflicting information was coming in), but neither one lied. They gave the facts as they were known at the time.
                * Neither Hillary nor Obama could have done anything during the attack which could have changed the outcome or had any effect.
                * Neither Hillary nor Obama did anything (or failed to do anything) before the attack which directly led to or caused or enabled the attacks.
                * Some lower level people at State made some decisions which were (in 20/20 hindsight) poor, but were not malicious.
          * Some of the people involved in the investigations have not disagreed with the facts in the official reports, but have nonetheless claimed without explicit basis that Hillary and/or Obama lied and caused it and were otherwise EVIL. Again, without facts or clear explanations.

    Now here is where we disagree.

    You seem to believe that all of the investigations were wrong for some unexplained reason, and all wrong in the exact same way, and nobody involved has clearly explained how they were wrong, but you know more than all of the investigators and can prove that your version is correct.

    I believe that you cannot deal with what you WANT to be true disagreeing with reality, so you are making shit up and ignoring facts while truly believing every word you say, You are not lying. You are also not correct.

  37. BZZZT! NOPE! Wanna try that one again? by denzacar · · Score: 2

    http://www.npr.org/2015/12/23/...

    All told, a single donor can give more than $700,000 for the election.
    That's serious money, according to campaign finance lawyer Brett Kappel.
    He said, "It also shows you where campaign finance law has gone. We're now back in the era of soft money."

    "Soft money" was the term for unregulated contributions to the party committees in the 1980s and '90s.
    The soft money system led to corruption cases in both major parties, and Congress barred party committees from raising it in 2002.

    But eight years later, the Supreme Court gave unregulated money a new path with Citizens United and other court decisions.
    In a 2014 ruling in the case McCutcheon v. FEC, the Supreme Court elevated the importance of joint fundraising committees between campaigns and parties, such as the Hillary Victory Fund.

    Campaign finance law had previously set an overarching limit on how much one person could give to federal candidates and the major parties â" combined â" in one election cycle.
    In McCutcheon, the Supreme Court said that limit was unconstitutional.
    As in other rulings, the court said removing the limit didn't raise questions of corruption.

    You don't like that? Well, you can hop on your time machine and go and shoot down people responsible - two Bushes and a Reagan.
    They appointed the guys who made it legal. Obama and Clinton appointed judges were against it.
    http://www.npr.org/sections/th...

    The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down an overall cap on the amount that large campaign donors can give to parties and candidates in a two-year election cycle.

    ...
    Chief Justice John Roberts led the opinion and was joined by justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Samuel Alito.
    A separate but concurring opinion was written by Justice Clarence Thomas.
    Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan dissented.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  38. Re:Who cares..?? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

    The way the system is designed in the US it strongly favours a bi-party state.

    At this point it's actually self-perpetuating. The Democratic and Republican parties created the Commission on Presidential Debates, and the billionaire Perot has been the only non-member of the two parties to appear in a prime-time televised debate. The Ds and Rs enforce their agenda by blacklisting any media outlet that shows a debate featuring a candidate from any other party, and the parties have enough contacts in the media which they are in bed with that threats of political boycotts of those media outlets also mean that they can stop media outlets from even reporting on other candidates. The leaked DNC emails show some of that collusion, DWS was on the phone with the head of MSNBC after one of their on-air personalities dared to suggest that DWS should step down as the chair for favoring Clinton. The parties are in bed with the media, and all together they effectively block any other party from gaining any significant following.

    You can see it here too, there are plenty of people who are very happy to tell people that voting for another party is a waste of a vote (it's not), or it helps one of the major parties (it only helps the party you vote for), etc. That's the stranglehold that needs to be broken. This election is so far the most likely that I've seen for the general public to ask questions like why aren't Gary Johnson or Jill Stein allowed in the televised debates. The answer will naturally be some arbitrary thing like "they haven't reached X% of support, therefore they aren't included", even though it's obviously circular reasoning (they haven't reached the support because they aren't included). Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states, clearly it's possible for him to reach the 270 electoral votes necessary to win, so why would they shut him out? So that you only hear their own voices. Jill Stein is on the ballot in 23 states but it looks like she probably also has access to 270 electoral votes, or she's really close. Both parties should be part of the debates, and let the 50% or more of Americans who don't identify as either a Democrat or Republican decide who best represents them.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black