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Washington State Sues Comcast For $100M Over 'Pattern of Deceptive Practices' (komonews.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Washington State has filed a lawsuit against Comcast to the sum of $100 million, accusing Comcast of "engaging in a pattern of deceptive practices." It claims that Comcast's documents reveal a pattern of illegally deceiving its own customers for profit. KOMO News reports: "The lawsuit (PDF) alleges more than 1.8 million individual violations of the Washington Consumer Protection Act. The Attorney General's Office says 500,000 Washington consumers were affected. The lawsuit also accuses Comcast of violating the Consumer Protection Act to all of its nearly 1.2 million Washington subscribers due to its deceptive 'Comcast Guarantee,' Ferguson said. The lawsuit accuses Comcast of misleading 500,000 Washington consumers and deceiving them into paying at least $73 million in subscription fees over the last five years for what the attorney general says is a a near-worthless protection plan. Customers who sign up for Comcast's Service Protection Plan pay a $4.99 monthly fee to avoid being charged if a Comcast technician visits their home. But the plan did not cover wiring inside a wall, the lawsuit says. The Attorney General Office says 75 percent of the time, customers who contacted Comcast were told the plan covered inside wiring. Customer service scripts, which the Attorney General's Office said it obtained during its investigation, told Comcast representatives to say that the plan covers calls 'related to inside wiring' and 'wiring inside your home.'" According to KOMO News, the lawsuit is seeking more than $73 million in restitution to pay back Service Protection Plan subscriber payments; full restitution for all service calls that applied an improper resolution code, estimated to be at least $1 million; removal of improper credit checks from the credit reports of more than 6,000 customers; up to $2,000 per violation of the Consumer Protection Act; and that Comcast clearly disclose the limitations of its Service Protection Plan in advertising and through its representatives, correct improper service codes that should not be chargeable and implement a compliance procedure for improper customer credit checks.

47 of 90 comments (clear)

  1. $100 million? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    Don't most large companies just budget for this amount as a lawsuit settlement fund for any new initiative? Seems like pocket change for most big guys, especially since they probably have billions in liability insurance stashed away for just such a purpose...

    1. Re:$100 million? by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      bingo. Even if the state got everything it wanted in full Comcast would cheerfully pay it as nothing more than the cost of doing business. Most companies today are simply too big and too rich to care about the law. Until we start slamming them with fines in the tens of billions and jailing executives nothing is going to change.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    2. Re:$100 million? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Needs to be an exponential payout.

      $1.01 to (x number of misbehavior) = fine.

      Anything over 5000 cases basically breaks a company.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    3. Re:$100 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Anything over 5000 cases basically breaks the entire global economy.

      FTFY.

      You might wanna re-think that base, there: 1.01 ^ 5000 ~= $4,044,537,935,523,532,667,942.07

      Simply put, any plan that involves having to sell off significant fractions of the earth's crust is probably unworkable.

    4. Re:$100 million? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's exactly my point.

      If you screw over a population larger than a small town, you go bankrupt. So get your shit together, or else.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    5. Re:$100 million? by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Just makes fines a percentage of global revenue.

    6. Re:$100 million? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Don't most large companies just budget for this amount as a lawsuit settlement fund for any new initiative? Seems like pocket change for most big guys, especially since they probably have billions in liability insurance stashed away for just such a purpose...

      Could you tell me why chiefs of companies (Financial, Marketing, Technology, Planning) and who own no company shares receive remuneration in the millions, while the shareholders receive bubkas (trivial amounts). Former President Carter had it right when he said, the max salary of an employee should not exceed 20 times the weighted average salary of the employees. He was saying, take 20 employees from installation and their boss, and for all departments and use that.
      You would see the multi-million dollar remuneration dropping to a few hundred thousand dollars. The difference would go into the accounts as dividends, debt repayment or infrastructure improvements.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  2. Protection plans by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who buys protection plans for a service? If the service doesn't work, Comcast needs to fix it on THEIR dime, or the service gets cancelled. After all, their dime is YOUR dime, because you are paying a monthly fee for the service.

    1. Re:Protection plans by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Then they better replace the cable. Why would I pay them to replace the cable for THEIR service? If they don't want to replace the cable then I won't buy their service. I am amazed that people would pay for them to put cable in.

    2. Re:Protection plans by Holi · · Score: 2

      But the plan didn't cover internal wiring, so exactly what did it cover? I mean the only time you would need a tech to come is due to either a wiring problem from the pole to the house or due to an internal wiring problem.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    3. Re:Protection plans by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      But the plan didn't cover internal wiring, so exactly what did it cover?

      I was kind of wondering that too. I would assume they are responsible for everything to the pole at least. As far as I know, they are responsible for everything to the box on the outside of the house. Just like the phone company. Even so, $5 per month for the cable from the pole to the outside connection is ridiculous.

      I mean the only time you would need a tech to come is due to either a wiring problem from the pole to the house or due to an internal wiring problem.

      You'd think, but no. At my last house the line from the pole to their location was old and needed to be replaced. After a dozen service calls I finally got a tech who told me the truth. Rather than actually fixing it they ended up sending a tech with a much more expensive modem that could deal with the bad line. It mostly worked until I moved. If I would have had a choice of any other ISP I would have taken it. But even with bad lines it was better than dial-up.

    4. Re:Protection plans by mschwanke97402 · · Score: 1

      I hate Comcast as much as anyone and no longer use their service but in this instance it is hard to see clear cut deception. The Comcast service plan doesn't cover wiring _INSIDE_ the walls (read the OP). But the repair service will cover all of the wiring from the wall outlet, across the floor, the tangle of wiring behind the entertainment center, etc. Oh, and before everyone gets too snarky on me, most utility services, even your electric company, provide repairs only up to the exterior wall of your residence, anything inside is at your expense and has been for decades.

    5. Re:Protection plans by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      No I don't know how it works. You pay money for a service call do they can put cable in to provide THEIR service? Are you stupid? Ask for a manager and they will waive the "service charge". No wonder corporations are so rich. Idiots like you pay them to install their infrastructure for them!

    6. Re:Protection plans by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Sometimes people call a tech and it turns out they haven't plugged in one of their boxes correctly or it got unplugged. I would imagine they would charge you for that.

    7. Re: Protection plans by thundercattt · · Score: 1

      They tried the same nonsense up here in Canada with Bell. "Line protection". I said they installed the line, up to them to repair it.

    8. Re:Protection plans by Raistlin77 · · Score: 1

      Also there needs to be a distinction between Comcast's residential cable network (Xfinity), and the rest of Comcast, these divisions and groups are are run by different people, with different expectations and goals. Just because you had a bad experience with Xfinity doesnt mean the rest of Comcast is rotten.

      No there doesn't. All Comcast divisions pull the same bullshit and are out to screw you just like every other Comcast division. All of Comcast is rotten to the core.

    9. Re:Protection plans by Bengie · · Score: 1

      That's pretty crappy. My ISP uses Ethernet for everything, including voice and TV. They had to run Cat5E throughout my house. My friend built a new house with no CAT and he said they ran the cabling through his dry-wall like pros. All "free" of course. If my podunk ISP can afford to run CAT in every house in the city, then Comcast can easily afford to fix or re-run COAX for a small number of customers.

    10. Re:Protection plans by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I hate Comcast as much as anyone and no longer use their service but in this instance it is hard to see clear cut deception. The Comcast service plan doesn't cover wiring _INSIDE_ the walls (read the OP). But the repair service will cover all of the wiring from the wall outlet, across the floor, the tangle of wiring behind the entertainment center, etc. Oh, and before everyone gets too snarky on me, most utility services, even your electric company, provide repairs only up to the exterior wall of your residence, anything inside is at your expense and has been for decades.

      That point is the called the Demarc (short for demarcation, as it splits the division from "we take card of this part" and "you take card of that part").

      It's a box that really is an outdoor version of what you see inside the house - a POTS demark box ends in a RJ11 socket. Your house "plugs" into the RJ11 with a standard silver satin cord to wherever the phone line service is distributed (a break out block, normally).

      Same for your cable - it terminates in an F connector, and your house screws into that for cable service. If your wiring is good enough, satellite providers put a diplexer right there so you can use your internal house wiring for the satellite. (The cable splitter is then replaced with a multi-switch).

      Electricity is somewhat different, but the demarc is almost always the meter socket - just downstream of the meter. Depending on your electric company, the meter may or may be part of your responsibility, and to confuse matters more, the actual meter socket itself may or may not be your responsibility (even though the power company pretty much replaces it for you). It's a tricky thing, because electric meters are supposed to be replaced every 10 years (their calibration expires), and because the socket is exposed to the elements, the meter and socket generally corrode together. It is not unusual for a replaced meter to cause a house to burn down if the socket was not replaced as well - it doesn't happen much, but it does happen and it's usually because of corrosion causing a high resistance connection.

  3. Punitive damages by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2

    Without punitive damages (loss of right of ways, permission to do business) they will laugh this off and keep right on going.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:Punitive damages by H3lldr0p · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm betting that the state DA is doing everything they're allowed to under the applicable laws. I greatly doubt that the Washington legislature gave the DA the ability to yank right-of-ways or anything of the like. That power either lies with a utility commission or with a legislative committee. Rightly so. I wouldn't want a DA to be playing politics with utility companies. I'd rather have them be as independent as possible.

      If I lived in that state, I'd be calling and writing my rep and those on said committee and push there.

    2. Re:Punitive damages by wbr1 · · Score: 1
      Comcast had approximately 68 Billion in revenue in 2015.

      100M? Pittance. They will spend double that on attorneys to fight, and then quadruple that to get accounts and attorneys to hide things better next time. Then they will pay that again to lobby for lighter restrictions.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
  4. $100M by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

    Nice to see some real money for these violations. $100M certainly wont bankrupt Comcast, but hopefully it will make them sit up and take notice.

    1. Re:$100M by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      It is Comcastic!

    2. Re:$100M by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

      Right. Comcast (allegedly) rips off the consumers and the state fills its pockets with another 100 million dollars of taxpayers funds paid via Comcast. That's just fucking fantastic.

      From TFA:

      According to KOMO News, the lawsuit is seeking more than $73 million in restitution to pay back Service Protection Plan subscriber payments; full restitution for all service calls that applied an improper resolution code, estimated to be at least $1 million...

      I could be reading it incorrectly, but it seems that (if the state wins) >$73M+$1M goes directly to the customers.

      IANAL, but I would guess (???) that if the money *didn't* go back to the subscribers/taxpayers, then they could turn around and file a class action (though again, my understanding is that the subscribers will be getting a fair chunk of the $100M if they win).

  5. When is Government Going to Get Off Our Backs! by Jawnn · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Comcasts of the world are the backbone of the U.S. economy, the job creators, shining examples of the free market at work. And yet again, we have government coming in to ride rough-shod over a company with a long history of innovation and customer service. If only there were a candidate who was a real leader when it came to business. Then we'd see things change for the better...
    ...OK. I give up. I can't type with a straight face anymore.

    1. Re:When is Government Going to Get Off Our Backs! by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 1

      So Comcast steals from its customers because zOMG SOOOOCIALISM!
      So Comcast puts you through the wringer for daring to cancel their "service" because zOMG SOOOOOCIALISM!
      Don't put any rules at all on business and we'll all be drinking that free bubble up and eating that rainbow stew, just like we were about 1880 or so before the zOMG SOOOOCIALISTS! ruined everything.
      And here I thought thievery was the fault of the thief, and Republicans were about personal responsibility.

      --
      Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
      Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    2. Re:When is Government Going to Get Off Our Backs! by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      So Comcast steals from its customers because zOMG SOOOOCIALISM! So Comcast puts you through the wringer for daring to cancel their "service" because zOMG SOOOOOCIALISM! Don't put any rules at all on business and we'll all be drinking that free bubble up and eating that rainbow stew, just like we were about 1880 or so before the zOMG SOOOOCIALISTS! ruined everything. And here I thought thievery was the fault of the thief, and Republicans were about personal responsibility.

      Whoosh much?

  6. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by hawguy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Where I live in Seattle, they provide service to the other side of the street, but not to mine. The city has blocked them from digging and adding new pedestals, so they can't. Since there's no fine for not offering service, it's cheaper for them to just lose the profit from the ~20 houses than it is to fight the city. Comcast needs to start being fined so they have an incentive to fight to provide service. CenturyLink has the same problem so they haven't been able to upgrade to higher than 1.5 Mbps DSL on my street.

    You want the city to force Comcast to fight the city to provide service that the city won't allow them to provide?

    Is this some sort of job creation program for lawyers?

  7. Re:Why Oh, Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why oh, why every single effing company in this whole wide world is doing the very same mistake over and over again? Are terms of service and the education of sales and service people so impossibly difficult in every single country this has happened?

    "So, for just $4.99 per month, you get peace of mind knowing that you won't be charged for a service call."

    "So if the service I pay you for doesn't work, you'll charge me to fix it unless I pay you even more every month?"

    "Er, um, no, your normal monthly charge does not include service calls. That's an extra charge that you can avoid for only $4.99/month!"

    "You mean that if your service doesn't work, you'll charge me for the service that you're not providing and then you'll charge me again to restore the service?"

    "Exactly! Wait, no, that would be insane. We would only charge you for a service call if there is a problem with your house wiring, which is up to you to maintain."

    "So for $4.99 per month, you'll maintain my house wiring in addition to your equipment?"

    "Well, no, um, but, well, I guess? I don't see what else we could be charging you for."

  8. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Sorry it isn't convenient for you to have various companies tear up OUR streets so you can get your 1gpbs fiber. If you want it so badly, move. Leave my streets alone.

  9. Places should not hide under fineprint & contr by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Places should not be able to hide under fine print & a system of contractors / sub contractors.

    It's seems like reps where saying one thing but the fine print stated something different. Now maybe when it's 1-2 reps the company should not take full responsibility but when it's poor training / a big hit your sales numbers or your out push / miss leading scripts and or sales pitches then company needs to take responsibility.

    Also 200 fix codes just shows how messed Comcast's back end is and how easy it is for a tech to pick the wrong ones.

    Now the AG needs to also sue comcast contractors / sub contractors just they can't pin the blame on them or say we did not do that but jay's cable service llc did it / get there documents under discovery.

  10. The penalty is a joke. by ubergeek65536 · · Score: 1

    $2,000 per violation of the Consumer Protection Act. Shouldn't that be more like $2,000,000 per violation?
    That's not much of an incentive to keep companies from screwing customers.

  11. Not Enough by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The correct amount is that which will depress the stock value. Only then will the investors take action to purge management of the vermin that infests it now.

    $100 million or a $1 Billion, whatever it takes.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re: Not Enough by easyTree · · Score: 1

      +1

  12. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by darkain · · Score: 1

    You literally have a stadium named after Comcast's competitor in Seattle... How do they have a city-granted monopoly?

  13. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by GNious · · Score: 2

    If you need to tear up the streets to lay a bit of extra fiber, I suspect you have some really odd streets ...

  14. Corporations rights by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    If the corporation has rights and is considered a entity, can't the state declare that the entity has revealed itself to be a habitual violator and undesirable corporate citizen and remove its' utility protections ? Systemic violation and internal documentation that enforces unfair/illegal practices should be rewarded with 'shunning'

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  15. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

    The interesting side is believing some story that the city won't allow them. Everytime I've encountered that story it generally of the order of "the city wouldn't let us install a pedestal that electrocuted anyone that touched it" or "the city wouldn't let me drape a cable across the pavement" or some other equally asinine reason. The city wants Comcast to provide service, but just like any other entity they have to comply with the laws. Typically what happens is that Comcast decides complying with city ordinances, the same ones everyone else has to comply with is too hard and that they need to change.

    It's a bunch of hogwash, the real reason Comcast doesn't provide service to that street is likely every building on it has signed exclusive agreements with centurylink, which would be the reason the DSL speed is so shitty, why upgrade when you can just pay the landlords money to exclude the competition. Then when someone calls to complain do the typical and blame the local government.

  16. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by jezwel · · Score: 1

    Dayum, you sound like our Prime Minister - http://www.news.com.au/technol... Just a reminder that he is the one responsible for changing the planned national rollout of 'fibre to everywhere possible + wireless & satellite where not' to 'whatever old tech we find and throw at the wall'.

  17. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by Nethead · · Score: 1

    I had ISDN in 1998 (in Edmonds to connect to my servers in the Westin Building) but is that still a thing except for 23B1D DS1 circuits for office phones? Maybe some uses in broadcast radio RPU setups, but really? Are you using a 2B1D 128Kb/s line?

    I just hope that you five developers are using terminal SSH to "develop" with. Otherwise your live is hell.

    --
    -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  18. Uhh... by easyTree · · Score: 1

    pattern of illegally deceiving its own customers for profit

    Otherwise known as business - why single Comcast out?

  19. Just Washington? by sabbede · · Score: 1

    I remember calling BS on this when I had Comcast Comcast is a bad actor.

    1. Re:Just Washington? by sabbede · · Score: 1
      WOAH! What the heck? My post changed when I hit the button!

      Should be - I remember calling BS on this when I had Comcast less than 5 years ago here in Georgia. And it's not even the most outrageous deception they tried to pull on me.

      Comcast is a bad actor.

      (I see what happened. I had a "less than" in front of the 5, accidentally clicked post after preview.)

  20. This is why drugs cost so much by mpercy · · Score: 1

    Big pharma is just buffering up the cash to deal with the inevitable 1-800-BAD-DRUG lawyers and class action suits. I'm pretty certain they'll cure cancer but the cure may cause ouchy hangnails in 0.0001% of patients, and 1-800-BAD-DRUG will put them out of business.

  21. Re:But nothing about forcing them... by Bengie · · Score: 1

    With modern equipment, they don't need to tear up the roads. I guess they're called horizontal drills. They used them all around my city. Not even traffic interruption while running lines under the road.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  22. caveat distemper by epine · · Score: 1

    Comcast failed to install Internet for 10 months then demanded $60,000 in fees

    Bet this guy wishes he had paid Comcast's paltry $500/month "we won't sue you after we fuck you over" protection fee. They don't push that one quite so heavily. You have to know and ask about a special promotion code.

  23. Nice timing by tmh+-+The+Mad+Hacker · · Score: 1

    The state AG announced the lawsuit the day before the primary election. Bob's definitely looking to make friends!