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Massachusetts Will Tax Ride-Sharing Companies To Subsidize Taxis (reuters.com)

Massachusetts will tax ride-sharing services -- 20 cents for each ride -- with 25% of the money raised going into a special fund for the taxi industry (according to an article shared by schwit1 ). Reuters reports: Ride services are not enthusiastic about the fee. "I don't think we should be in the business of subsidizing potential competitors," said Kirill Evdakov, the chief executive of Fasten, a ride service that launched in Boston last year and also operates in Austin, Texas. Some taxi owners wanted the law to go further, perhaps banning the start-up competitors unless they meet the requirements taxis do, such as regular vehicle inspection by the police...

The fee may raise millions of dollars a year because Lyft and Uber alone have a combined 2.5 million rides per month in Massachusetts... The 5-cent fee will be collected through the end of 2021. Then the taxi subsidy will disappear and the 20 cents will be split by localities and the state for five years. The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.

Republican Governor Charlie Baker signed the law, which specifically bans ride-sharing services from passing those costs on to their drivers or riders. And the article notes that Taiwan has also hit Uber with a $6.4 million tax bill, while Seattle has passed a new law allowing ride-sharing drivers to unionize.

21 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're not a taxi service but taxis are potential competitors. Are the like of Uber and Lyft starting to drop the veneer that they don't occupy the same service space as taxi companies? Or are they going to continue with the double speak?

    1. Re:What is it that you say? by tlambert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're not a taxi service but taxis are potential competitors. Are the like of Uber and Lyft starting to drop the veneer that they don't occupy the same service space as taxi companies?

      I imagine they are saying that if a taxi see someone standing there waiting for an Uber, they might try to "vulch" the customer, and steal it from the Uber driver already en route.

      While it is currently illegal for Uber drivers to do the same to taxis, since they would then have to be fully compliant with taxi regulations.

      For example, it's also illegal for Town Car operators to pick up people at the San Francisco Airport who are waiting for transport, unless they specifically called the Town Car company, even though both the people and the Town Car are there, the Town Car's fare's flight got delayed or cancelled, and there are not Taxis in sight.

      So yes: Taxi's potentially compete with Uber (and Town Cars), but Uber (and Town Cars) does not compete with ad hoc taxi service.

    2. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This just means that Taxi services aren't providing the service that customers want. The solution is for Taxi companies to adapt or to push for any legal changes regarding their operations that will allow them to compete.

      Taxing one private company for another's direct subsidy is just un-American.

    3. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      a bus-service is also not a taxi-service, yet the 2 do compete for travelers

      A bus is so not like a taxi:
      * Buses involve a ton of waiting.
      * Buses carry more than two or three passengers, so less privacy.
      * Buses won't pick you up at the starting location of your journey. Instead you have to walk to the bus stop.
      * For long distance travel, you may have to take two or three buses (and wait between those buses), unlike a single taxi for the whole trip.
      * Buses are usually cheap, especially if you buy a bus-pass.
      * All that waiting and taking inefficient routes mean buses often take 2 to 5 times longer than a taxi for the same A-to-B trip.

      An uber is sooo similar to a taxi:
      * Instead of waving with your hands to hail a cab, you send a message to Uber's servers, which in turn will send messages to hail a cab for you.
      * Instead of a taxi meter, software on Uber's servers will calculate the fare based on distance traveled, waiting time, etc.
      * Both involve one for-hire driver driving a car.
      * Both involve carrying one to three passengers.
      * Price per mile is very similar, compared to other modes of transport such as bus or train.

      in other words this isn't double-speek

      So "ride-sharing" (or TOI, taxi-over-the-internet), automate just a couple of actions related to taxis, but are otherwise, they are exactly the same as taxis.

    4. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't need a million dollar medallion to land at Laguardia, or to drive a bus down 5th Avenue.

      Stop trying to make Uber comply with insane taxi regulations and instead lift the insane regulations on taxis.

    5. Re:What is it that you say? by Nemyst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you actually used Uber and taxi services? Uber's quality of service, reliability and ease of use is making pretty much all taxi operators ridiculously embarrassed, and that's on top of being cheaper to boot.

    6. Re:What is it that you say? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      * Price per mile is very similar, compared to other modes of transport such as bus or train.

      At least here in Las Vegas, it ain't so... For example: A taxi from my house on the east side of Las Vegas to McCarran airport is gonna cost me right around $47, whereas an Uber trip from home to the airport is around $20, not to mention the fact that the last time I took a trip to the airport via Uber, I rode in a very nice, well kept SUV, and the driver was very personable. Whereas, the last time I took a cab to the airport, before Lyft/Uber came on the scene, I swore I'd walk before taking another cab in this town.. Overpriced, rude drivers, often don't show up when you call.... We NEED something like Uber/Lyft to provide some competition to taxicabs...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    7. Re:What is it that you say? by Luthair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is their business model failing? Uber & Lyft use the identical model but using an app, you sound like a lawyer from the 90s who thinks that adding "with a computer" to any everyday operation made it novel and worthy of a patent.

    8. Re:What is it that you say? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The government's job isn't to be heavy handed. It is to insure that we are all playing by the same sets of rules.

      But this case isn't giving Uber Driver regulations, but just taking them to support the competitors who have a bunch of regulations.

      Now as I see it, the Government should be doing either the following.
      Lessening the regulations on Taxi Companies so they can be more competitive.
      Or
      Giving Ride Sharing services regulations to insure safety and standards are met to match the Taxi Services.

       

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      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    9. Re:What is it that you say? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is that you're both right. The taxis are providing the service, the taxi companies are not. Taxi companies have long since adopted similar business models to Uber and Lyft: the drivers either bring (and maintain) their own car or rent it from the taxi company. The only service that the companies provide is a dispatcher, for which they take a hefty cut.

      Consumers want to have a single dispatcher service that works anywhere and puts them in touch with a lot of taxi drivers. Uber provides something like this. The taxi companies don't want to, because this kind of thing naturally benefits from economies of scale: it's only slightly more expensive to provide a dispatcher service for the entire USA than for NYC.

      If you really want to address the problem with a legislative fix then make every licensed taxi reachable via a single computerised dispatcher service and provide a well documented API for interacting with it. Provide (and fund out of the taxes on taxi fares and licenses) enough infrastructure that anyone can write an app that will hail any taxi in your jurisdiction and pay for it. If Uber wants to operate in your city, then they're free to do so by simply integrating their front end with your municipal back end.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  2. Subsidizing Businesses.... by iCEBaLM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is like taxing car owners to subsidize stage coaches.

    1. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you'd paid upwards of $500K for a taxi medallion in a big city, you'd probably thrash like mad too. Just because Uber is appy app is not an excuse to violate the law. The reason taxis are tightly regulated make sense: You want a fair meter that charges you fairly for your trip. You want a vehicle that is safe. You want the driver to not rob or rape you. There's plenty of argument to be made that a medallion shouldn't cost so damn much and shouldn't be so scarce, but I don't think Uber et al are the solution. I frankly find the selling of false hope to the people that sacrifice their time and their cars to the service to be abhorrent. And they're dropping their fees yet again. Drivers can barely keep their vehicles fueled and maintained while make a petty income. Keep dropping the fees and they'll lose their network of shittily paid volunteers.

    2. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Cederic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, you messed up.

      Your bakery needs to ignore food hygiene laws, force your bakers to provide their own ovens and refuse to pay minimum wage.

      Then you'll be an innovating GENIUS!

    3. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by ranton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So -- You favor throwing all of us who run only free software on open computer hardware into some sort of digital ghetto?

      I don't think anyone is favoring it, but I certainly don't want progress stopped by even the tiniest degree to accommodate those who self-impose such restrictions on themselves. I'm also not concerned at all with how the Amish will be affected by technological progress if that helps put things in perspective.

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    4. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Go ahead and keep defending pathological douchebags like this guy. Medallion owners are speculative parasites and their chickens are coming home to roost, and they sooooo deserve it. Seriously, fuck them . . . couldn't happen to a more antisocial, greedier bunch of dicks.

  3. And if you believe that... by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.

    If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:And if you believe that... by Wycliffe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Instead, the tolls are one way: you pay them, if you are a nasty, low income person coming from Emeryville into San Francisco, but not if you are a wonderful, high income person going from San Francisco to Emeryville.

      The tolls are one-way because they know that 99.99% of people travel back to where they came from so instead of making people stop twice to pay the toll, it's more convenient for *everyone* to just collect it once.

  4. Uber is not "ride sharing" by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uber is simply not engaged in "ride sharing". Ride sharing is when a driver is going to make a journey, and takes one or more people with them, in return for covering their costs on the way. No money is made, and the journey happens regardless of the extra people along for the ride.

  5. As an ex-cabbie... by spywhere · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...I am biased, but there is logic behind my bias.
    Municipalities require licensing for taxi services because the taxi drivers are conducting the actual business transaction -- agreeing to transport the customer for a price, whether pre-agreed or subject to a meter reading, at the point of pickup within the municipality.
    Most municipalities also require background checks for the drivers and company owners, and have safety requirements for the vehicles, as [a means to ensure customer safety | a revenue generator].
    Passengers, however, are unscreened and unknown. They might come in from a phone call, or they might hail a taxi on the street.
    Most of the risk, both financial and otherwise, falls on the drivers.

    So, along come Uber, Lyft and their ilk, conducting the transactions online (thus, outside the municipality) and essentially reversing the standard cabbie/passenger dynamic: the passengers are pre-identified (to sign up, they needed a cell phone, a credit card and a valid address to go with it), and the drivers are unknown (except to the companies, which do little or no effective screening). The vehicles used are unlikely to meet the requirements for taxi use, and are often flat-out unsafe for drivers, passengers, or bystanders.

    The companies start doing business anywhere they like, and fight against the requirements -- only if challenged -- with funds from their financial backers.
    Municipalities are not happy about this, for both safety and financial reasons. Taxi owners and drivers, most of whom have invested considerable time and money to clear regulatory hurdles, are understandably upset at this end run around the law.

    Imagine if Internet gun sellers showed up doing business in NYC or Washington, D.C. and claimed similar exemption from the local (highly restrictive) laws...

  6. Subsidies by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LMOL yes moron Uber competes with taxi service.

    Sure. Any transport method that is used instead of another is competition. Walking, bicycles, private cars, motorcycles, skateboards, Segways, busses, subways, jitneys, hansoms, taxis, limos, Uber... all competitors that reduce opportunity for the others.

    Anyway, the story is that Uber's earnings will be garnished to subsidize taxis. I wonder, would people approve if their bicycles and cars and so on were taxed specifically to subsidize taxis and/or other transportation methods?

    It's fascinating to see the "this business has a right to exist, workable business model or not" attitude arise in a new space, and to watch the politicians be bought and sold accordingly.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  7. Re:When it stops moving, subsidize it... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And all the laws that were designed to prevent banking meltdowns didn't stop the last meltdown

    This is specifically not accurate.

    The Glass-Steagall Act prevented major banking meltdowns since it was passed in the aftermath of the Great Depression. We're talking a 50-60 year track record of success.

    The affiliation provisions were struck in 1999, and within a decade there was a major banking crisis. The seeds of that destruction were sown almost immediately after the law was changed. Because, surprise, banks are still run by short-sighted, overly "clever" assholes who will do anything to turn a quick buck.

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    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.