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Massachusetts Will Tax Ride-Sharing Companies To Subsidize Taxis (reuters.com)

Massachusetts will tax ride-sharing services -- 20 cents for each ride -- with 25% of the money raised going into a special fund for the taxi industry (according to an article shared by schwit1 ). Reuters reports: Ride services are not enthusiastic about the fee. "I don't think we should be in the business of subsidizing potential competitors," said Kirill Evdakov, the chief executive of Fasten, a ride service that launched in Boston last year and also operates in Austin, Texas. Some taxi owners wanted the law to go further, perhaps banning the start-up competitors unless they meet the requirements taxis do, such as regular vehicle inspection by the police...

The fee may raise millions of dollars a year because Lyft and Uber alone have a combined 2.5 million rides per month in Massachusetts... The 5-cent fee will be collected through the end of 2021. Then the taxi subsidy will disappear and the 20 cents will be split by localities and the state for five years. The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.

Republican Governor Charlie Baker signed the law, which specifically bans ride-sharing services from passing those costs on to their drivers or riders. And the article notes that Taiwan has also hit Uber with a $6.4 million tax bill, while Seattle has passed a new law allowing ride-sharing drivers to unionize.

35 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're not a taxi service but taxis are potential competitors. Are the like of Uber and Lyft starting to drop the veneer that they don't occupy the same service space as taxi companies? Or are they going to continue with the double speak?

    1. Re:What is it that you say? by tlambert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're not a taxi service but taxis are potential competitors. Are the like of Uber and Lyft starting to drop the veneer that they don't occupy the same service space as taxi companies?

      I imagine they are saying that if a taxi see someone standing there waiting for an Uber, they might try to "vulch" the customer, and steal it from the Uber driver already en route.

      While it is currently illegal for Uber drivers to do the same to taxis, since they would then have to be fully compliant with taxi regulations.

      For example, it's also illegal for Town Car operators to pick up people at the San Francisco Airport who are waiting for transport, unless they specifically called the Town Car company, even though both the people and the Town Car are there, the Town Car's fare's flight got delayed or cancelled, and there are not Taxis in sight.

      So yes: Taxi's potentially compete with Uber (and Town Cars), but Uber (and Town Cars) does not compete with ad hoc taxi service.

    2. Re:What is it that you say? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Informative

      In short the Taxi industry has a lot of say in the politics. Especially because the government decided to highly regulate the taxi industry.

      I am sorry Taxi industry that your business model is failing. However it happens, trying to have the government come in and try to subsidize your business model isn't a solution.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This just means that Taxi services aren't providing the service that customers want. The solution is for Taxi companies to adapt or to push for any legal changes regarding their operations that will allow them to compete.

      Taxing one private company for another's direct subsidy is just un-American.

    4. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      a bus-service is also not a taxi-service, yet the 2 do compete for travelers

      A bus is so not like a taxi:
      * Buses involve a ton of waiting.
      * Buses carry more than two or three passengers, so less privacy.
      * Buses won't pick you up at the starting location of your journey. Instead you have to walk to the bus stop.
      * For long distance travel, you may have to take two or three buses (and wait between those buses), unlike a single taxi for the whole trip.
      * Buses are usually cheap, especially if you buy a bus-pass.
      * All that waiting and taking inefficient routes mean buses often take 2 to 5 times longer than a taxi for the same A-to-B trip.

      An uber is sooo similar to a taxi:
      * Instead of waving with your hands to hail a cab, you send a message to Uber's servers, which in turn will send messages to hail a cab for you.
      * Instead of a taxi meter, software on Uber's servers will calculate the fare based on distance traveled, waiting time, etc.
      * Both involve one for-hire driver driving a car.
      * Both involve carrying one to three passengers.
      * Price per mile is very similar, compared to other modes of transport such as bus or train.

      in other words this isn't double-speek

      So "ride-sharing" (or TOI, taxi-over-the-internet), automate just a couple of actions related to taxis, but are otherwise, they are exactly the same as taxis.

    5. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't need a million dollar medallion to land at Laguardia, or to drive a bus down 5th Avenue.

      Stop trying to make Uber comply with insane taxi regulations and instead lift the insane regulations on taxis.

    6. Re:What is it that you say? by Nemyst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you actually used Uber and taxi services? Uber's quality of service, reliability and ease of use is making pretty much all taxi operators ridiculously embarrassed, and that's on top of being cheaper to boot.

    7. Re:What is it that you say? by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are the polititions going to drop the veneer of giving a shit about the public when they support the very cab companies that have done jack shit for consumers right here in boston for decades?

      Everyone I know who doesn't drive, and many who do, uses these services on a regular basis, choosing them over cabs. Anyone who has taken a cab knows why.

      Where was the precious regulation for YEARS when cabs were "required" to take credit cards, but regularly just drove around telling people the machine was broken. The local news was doing investigative reports about how bad the cabs were before Uber got here.

      Now all of a sudden the poor cabbies who squandered their government granted monopoly for decades are crying foul and the politicians are happy to turn a blind eye to decades of disservice for a buck.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    8. Re:What is it that you say? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      * Price per mile is very similar, compared to other modes of transport such as bus or train.

      At least here in Las Vegas, it ain't so... For example: A taxi from my house on the east side of Las Vegas to McCarran airport is gonna cost me right around $47, whereas an Uber trip from home to the airport is around $20, not to mention the fact that the last time I took a trip to the airport via Uber, I rode in a very nice, well kept SUV, and the driver was very personable. Whereas, the last time I took a cab to the airport, before Lyft/Uber came on the scene, I swore I'd walk before taking another cab in this town.. Overpriced, rude drivers, often don't show up when you call.... We NEED something like Uber/Lyft to provide some competition to taxicabs...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    9. Re:What is it that you say? by Luthair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is their business model failing? Uber & Lyft use the identical model but using an app, you sound like a lawyer from the 90s who thinks that adding "with a computer" to any everyday operation made it novel and worthy of a patent.

    10. Re:What is it that you say? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The government's job isn't to be heavy handed. It is to insure that we are all playing by the same sets of rules.

      But this case isn't giving Uber Driver regulations, but just taking them to support the competitors who have a bunch of regulations.

      Now as I see it, the Government should be doing either the following.
      Lessening the regulations on Taxi Companies so they can be more competitive.
      Or
      Giving Ride Sharing services regulations to insure safety and standards are met to match the Taxi Services.

       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    11. Re:What is it that you say? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is that you're both right. The taxis are providing the service, the taxi companies are not. Taxi companies have long since adopted similar business models to Uber and Lyft: the drivers either bring (and maintain) their own car or rent it from the taxi company. The only service that the companies provide is a dispatcher, for which they take a hefty cut.

      Consumers want to have a single dispatcher service that works anywhere and puts them in touch with a lot of taxi drivers. Uber provides something like this. The taxi companies don't want to, because this kind of thing naturally benefits from economies of scale: it's only slightly more expensive to provide a dispatcher service for the entire USA than for NYC.

      If you really want to address the problem with a legislative fix then make every licensed taxi reachable via a single computerised dispatcher service and provide a well documented API for interacting with it. Provide (and fund out of the taxes on taxi fares and licenses) enough infrastructure that anyone can write an app that will hail any taxi in your jurisdiction and pay for it. If Uber wants to operate in your city, then they're free to do so by simply integrating their front end with your municipal back end.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:What is it that you say? by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's really the problem with Uber's business model (and by extension taxi companies' business model). They are providing a service to the driver - locating people wanting rides and disseminating that information to the nearest available driver. But instead of acting like a service and charging the driver a nominal fee, they insist on acting as the gatekeeper. They take in all the revenue, and disburse a portion of it back to the driver.

      Uber isn't the end-game here. Some ride-sharing app which simply lets drivers and people looking for a ride link up for a nominal fee (like 25 cents) is going to be the end-game. It's like music. In the past, manufacturing and distribution were a huge part of their expenses. Today with digital media and the Internet, those expenses are almost zero. Likewise, in the past a lot of the expense and complexity for a taxi system was in matching up ride requests with drivers. Radios in the cabs were the first big breakthrough. Then GPS so the dispatcher didn't have to manually keep track of where the cabs were. Now cell phones (with GPS) and cellular Internet service have pretty much made the dispatcher obsolete. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a craigslist-like service ends up winning, providing the service essentially for free just because it can be done so cheaply.

  2. Subsidizing Businesses.... by iCEBaLM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is like taxing car owners to subsidize stage coaches.

    1. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by MitchDev · · Score: 3, Informative

      The entrenched criminals don't like their illegal "legal-monopolies" being smashed, so the silly dinosaurs are gonna thrash like mad trying to escape that tarpit...

    2. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wrong way around, more like taxing wind to subsidize coal. Historically taxes of that nature worked as your example: the government taxes the older, less glamorous thing to help the new thing. For example there was a 10% tax on railroad tickets from 1942 to 1962 (originally intended for WW2) which eventually was used to fund airport and interstate construction, which helped doom the private railroads.

      If the government wanted to do it consistent with history and your example, taxi fares would be taxed to subsidize ride sharing even as they're losing money.

    3. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you'd paid upwards of $500K for a taxi medallion in a big city, you'd probably thrash like mad too. Just because Uber is appy app is not an excuse to violate the law. The reason taxis are tightly regulated make sense: You want a fair meter that charges you fairly for your trip. You want a vehicle that is safe. You want the driver to not rob or rape you. There's plenty of argument to be made that a medallion shouldn't cost so damn much and shouldn't be so scarce, but I don't think Uber et al are the solution. I frankly find the selling of false hope to the people that sacrifice their time and their cars to the service to be abhorrent. And they're dropping their fees yet again. Drivers can barely keep their vehicles fueled and maintained while make a petty income. Keep dropping the fees and they'll lose their network of shittily paid volunteers.

    4. Re: Subsidizing Businesses.... by SeriousTube · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uber is strongly interested in self driving cars. Uber drivers may be done for but the company isn't.

    5. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Cederic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, you messed up.

      Your bakery needs to ignore food hygiene laws, force your bakers to provide their own ovens and refuse to pay minimum wage.

      Then you'll be an innovating GENIUS!

    6. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by ranton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So -- You favor throwing all of us who run only free software on open computer hardware into some sort of digital ghetto?

      I don't think anyone is favoring it, but I certainly don't want progress stopped by even the tiniest degree to accommodate those who self-impose such restrictions on themselves. I'm also not concerned at all with how the Amish will be affected by technological progress if that helps put things in perspective.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    7. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nobody is throwing you anywhere. Use the computer that you want. Use the phone you want. Use the services that you want. Uber can either support your system or not, as they seem fit, and you can use it or not.

      What's your complaint? 'Oh, I can't use this nice service because I've crippled myself, so nobody else should be able to use it either' ?

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    8. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Go ahead and keep defending pathological douchebags like this guy. Medallion owners are speculative parasites and their chickens are coming home to roost, and they sooooo deserve it. Seriously, fuck them . . . couldn't happen to a more antisocial, greedier bunch of dicks.

  3. And if you believe that... by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.

    If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:And if you believe that... by Wycliffe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Instead, the tolls are one way: you pay them, if you are a nasty, low income person coming from Emeryville into San Francisco, but not if you are a wonderful, high income person going from San Francisco to Emeryville.

      The tolls are one-way because they know that 99.99% of people travel back to where they came from so instead of making people stop twice to pay the toll, it's more convenient for *everyone* to just collect it once.

  4. Banning passing the costs? by Gilgaron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How do they ban the passing of the costs to drivers or passengers? Or is the point just to prevent it being a line item like the taxes and fees on a phone bill so that voters don't get mad about seeing it?

    1. Re:Banning passing the costs? by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's the relevant section of the law:

      (b) Annually, not later than February 1, each transportation network company shall submit to the director of the division established in section 23 of chapter 25 the number of rides from the previous calendar year that originated within each city or town and a per-ride assessment of $0.20. A transportation network company shall not charge a transportation network rider or a transportation network driver, as defined in section 1 of chapter 159A½, for the cost of the per-ride assessment. Not later than June 30, the director shall post on the divisionâ(TM)s website the aggregate number of rides from the previous calendar year originating within each city or town.

      The rider or the driver are not to be charged. So it has to come out of Uber's existing take of each ride. It makes it more expensive for Uber while it doesn't cost the rider any more and the driver still makes just as much.

      But ultimately there is no way to prevent Uber from just raising their costs in other areas to offset their costs. It's no different than fining a company for some illegal act...the cost is always ultimately passed on to the customer. Or a police department settling a lawsuit...it's not the police that pay it, it's the tax payers. The one that actually pays money into the system is always the one that foots the increased costs.

  5. What political compromise looks like by Arnold+Reinhold · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This tax is a very small bone that was thrown to the taxi industry who wanted far more crippling regulation of their competition. The ride sharing companies won big in this law.

  6. Uber is not "ride sharing" by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uber is simply not engaged in "ride sharing". Ride sharing is when a driver is going to make a journey, and takes one or more people with them, in return for covering their costs on the way. No money is made, and the journey happens regardless of the extra people along for the ride.

  7. Re:How do you ban someone from passing on this cos by schwit1 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Taxes are bad enough without Big Brother sticking its fat nose into your business and telling you exactly how to pay them."

    Welcome to socialism.

  8. Brilliant Idea! by transami · · Score: 3, Funny

    In fact, if they levied a 50% per fare tax instead, then the Taxi company could just call an Uber for you.

    --
    :T:R:A:N:S:
  9. Re:Republican fails econ 101, shock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Perhaps you'd enjoy learning more about Massachusetts, starting with the composition of its legislative bodies. Hint: they are overwhelmingly populated by Democrats. Please feel free to contribute more disingenuous soundbites to the discussion. -PCP

  10. As an ex-cabbie... by spywhere · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...I am biased, but there is logic behind my bias.
    Municipalities require licensing for taxi services because the taxi drivers are conducting the actual business transaction -- agreeing to transport the customer for a price, whether pre-agreed or subject to a meter reading, at the point of pickup within the municipality.
    Most municipalities also require background checks for the drivers and company owners, and have safety requirements for the vehicles, as [a means to ensure customer safety | a revenue generator].
    Passengers, however, are unscreened and unknown. They might come in from a phone call, or they might hail a taxi on the street.
    Most of the risk, both financial and otherwise, falls on the drivers.

    So, along come Uber, Lyft and their ilk, conducting the transactions online (thus, outside the municipality) and essentially reversing the standard cabbie/passenger dynamic: the passengers are pre-identified (to sign up, they needed a cell phone, a credit card and a valid address to go with it), and the drivers are unknown (except to the companies, which do little or no effective screening). The vehicles used are unlikely to meet the requirements for taxi use, and are often flat-out unsafe for drivers, passengers, or bystanders.

    The companies start doing business anywhere they like, and fight against the requirements -- only if challenged -- with funds from their financial backers.
    Municipalities are not happy about this, for both safety and financial reasons. Taxi owners and drivers, most of whom have invested considerable time and money to clear regulatory hurdles, are understandably upset at this end run around the law.

    Imagine if Internet gun sellers showed up doing business in NYC or Washington, D.C. and claimed similar exemption from the local (highly restrictive) laws...

    1. Re:As an ex-cabbie... by psmoot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I am biased, but there is logic behind my bias.

      We all have biases and priors. Good on you for admitting it.

      I'm going to re-arrange the order of some of your points to make a clearer response.

      Municipalities require licensing for taxi services because the taxi drivers are conducting the actual business transaction -- agreeing to transport the customer for a price, whether pre-agreed or subject to a meter reading, at the point of pickup within the municipality. Most of the risk, both financial and otherwise, falls on the drivers.

      I think in those respects, taxis and ride sharing are essentially identical. Your transaction is with the driver, brokered via Uber/Lyft/etc. The driver, as a contractor, takes the financial risk if they are trying to drive as a full time job. They may or may not make enough money depending on how many rides they get, how many hours they can work, and so forth. The beauty of the ride sharing model is the risk is much lower than driving a taxi since you're using a vehicle you've already purchased. A taxi driver has to shell out for a new vehicle which is only used for taxi service. That's a huge capital requirement.

      [Taxi] Passengers, however, are unscreened and unknown. They might come in from a phone call, or they might hail a taxi on the street.

      Quite true. This strikes me as a benefit of ride sharing. The driver has a much better idea of who's getting in the car, making the driver safer.

      Most municipalities also require background checks for the drivers and company owners, and have safety requirements for the vehicles, as [a means to ensure customer safety | a revenue generator].

      As a passenger, I want some assurance the vehicle I'm about to enter is safe, and the driver hasn't been in a string of accidents. Where we're about to disagree is how best to ensure that. I believe it is illegitimate for cities to use taxi safety inspections fees as a revenue source. Inspections should be charged on a cost-recovery basis and no more. No tears from me if cities lose a revenue stream they shouldn't have.

      So, along come Uber, Lyft and their ilk, conducting the transactions online (thus, outside the municipality) and essentially reversing the standard cabbie/passenger dynamic: the passengers are pre-identified (to sign up, they needed a cell phone, a credit card and a valid address to go with it), and the drivers are unknown (except to the companies, which do little or no effective screening). The vehicles used are unlikely to meet the requirements for taxi use, and are often flat-out unsafe for drivers, passengers, or bystanders.

      And this is where we part ways. I have no idea why you think drivers are anonymous, the ride sharing apps show me their names, pictures, and tons of feedback on how they behave. I know way more about ride sharing drivers than I ever do about a taxi driver.

      I'm also not sure why you think the vehicles are unsafe. These are the same cars millions of people drive every day. We don't see mass carnage to drivers, passengers, or bystanders. OK, well, yes we do, but it's an acceptable level of carnage (proof by demonstration). My point is, we accept that risk and outcome every day in millions of drives and I don't see why we need a different level of safety just because some cash is changing hands. Further, in the years in which ride sharing has been a thing, I don't think we've seen significant safety problems. We don't need a solution for non-problems.

      Municipalities are not happy about this, for both safety and financial reasons. Taxi owners and drivers, most of whom have invested considerable time and money to clear regulatory hurdles, are understandably upset at this end run around the law.

      Let's break this down because you just made a whole bunch of points. I'd like to stick to safety. Customers, drivers, and ride sharing brokers wi

  11. Subsidies by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LMOL yes moron Uber competes with taxi service.

    Sure. Any transport method that is used instead of another is competition. Walking, bicycles, private cars, motorcycles, skateboards, Segways, busses, subways, jitneys, hansoms, taxis, limos, Uber... all competitors that reduce opportunity for the others.

    Anyway, the story is that Uber's earnings will be garnished to subsidize taxis. I wonder, would people approve if their bicycles and cars and so on were taxed specifically to subsidize taxis and/or other transportation methods?

    It's fascinating to see the "this business has a right to exist, workable business model or not" attitude arise in a new space, and to watch the politicians be bought and sold accordingly.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  12. Re:When it stops moving, subsidize it... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And all the laws that were designed to prevent banking meltdowns didn't stop the last meltdown

    This is specifically not accurate.

    The Glass-Steagall Act prevented major banking meltdowns since it was passed in the aftermath of the Great Depression. We're talking a 50-60 year track record of success.

    The affiliation provisions were struck in 1999, and within a decade there was a major banking crisis. The seeds of that destruction were sown almost immediately after the law was changed. Because, surprise, banks are still run by short-sighted, overly "clever" assholes who will do anything to turn a quick buck.

    --

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    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.