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Companies Are Developing More Apps With Fewer Developers (fortune.com)

Fortune reports that the "yawning gap in tech skills" has resulted in a surprising shift in supply and demand in the software industry. And in many companies now, a growing trend of developer jobs being given to non-developers can be seen. From the article: That's because a relatively new technology, known as low-code or no-code platforms, is now doing a big chunk of the work that high-priced human talent used to do. Low-code platforms are designed so that people with little or no coding or software engineering background -- known in the business as "citizen developers" -- can create apps, both for use in-house and for clients. Not surprisingly, the low-code platform industry, made up of about 40 small companies (so far), is growing like crazy. A recent Forrester Research report put its total revenues at about $1.7 billion in 2015, a figure that's projected to balloon to $15 billion in the next four years. Low-code-platform providers, notes Forrester, are typically seeing sales increases in excess of 50% a year.The report cites QuickBase, a company whose low-code platforms are used by half of the Fortune 500 companies, as an example. Its CEO Allison Mnookin says that almost any employee can now do most or all of the same work that developers used to do. Mnookin adds that there's a big advantage in this. "Opening an app's development to the non-techies who need the app removes misunderstandings between the IT department and other employees about what the end user needs."

163 comments

  1. fill in the blanks by turkeydance · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Companies Are ______ With Fewer ______.

    1. Re:fill in the blanks by zifn4b · · Score: 4, Funny

      Companies Are ______ With Fewer ______.

      Cards against Humanity: Developer Edition?

      --
      We'll make great pets
    2. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Companies Are ______ With Fewer ______.

      Yeah. The goal is to get rid of people anyway and everywhere possible. People are expenses and cut into profits. And a great place to start is to get rid of expensive people. Get rid of that $50/hour programmer/developer/engineer and have the art guy do some of his work and pile on the tech stuff on to the other programmer/developer/engineer on the team and make him worker longer and harder.

      My company has been doing that since 2008. Canned a bunch of senior people, stuck me and some others with the work and moved some of the simpler tasks to others who are not technical. Frankly, they do a great job at UI design. After all, it's all drag/drop WYSIWYG these days anyway.

      I'm out of tech as soon as I can. I've been inching my way into management and the business end since '08 because my days are numbered. The Indian "contractors" are another sign that my days are numbered too.

      I wish I could have made it into Med school.

    3. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, I'm going to put down "Being Rich" and "Friends with Benefits".

      http://craphound.com/images/CAH_MainGame.pdf-pages.jpg

      Anyone have anything better?

    4. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apps that app other apps get apped! Modern app apping companies are simply firing LUDDITES who write worthless LUDDITE software in favor of keeping app appers who only app apps!

      Apps!

    5. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Companies Are making more money With Fewer employees.

      What did i win?

    6. Re:fill in the blanks by Frobnicator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Companies Are making more money With Fewer employees.

      What did i win?

      You won the layoff, your CEO won a $15M bonus. Congratulations.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    7. Re: fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was looking for this comment, thank you.

    8. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably the only reason there is even any demand for "newer, faster" processors, is the lack of optimization in programming.

      Think about it. How many god damn frameworks are in use by the OS, and Web Browser, before even the Javascript is invoked?

      Sure many Apps can be rapidly developed with little experience, but without that experience, you have no idea how to make it run faster.

      I mean, shit, nobody knows how to use threading, at all. Nobody. If the threading isn't built right into the OS and Web browser (none of the web browsers support multithreading either, they all subscribe to "prefork and fuckin ignore it") that means it doesn't get used. Despite that there are games and apps that could benefit from multithreading, but there is no threading support in the frameworks that are used to run such games and apps.

    9. Re: fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Embedded systems" like a smart TV these days consist of a high-rise screen (>1024x768x 24 bit), a 64-bit CPU running a Linux kernel with TCP/IP supporting Bluetooth, WIFI and Ethernet. To support database access, there will be SQL-LITE server, Apache QPID, all the standard Linux daemons, custom protocols plus third party libraries like STL, Boost, true type font manager and Unicode internationalisation. Network based back end processors will have their own script languages.

      There will be a GPU with at least four or eight cores. On top of that will be Qt for the GUI which runs directly over OpenGL. If you want to do any custom rendering you will *have* to render to an offscreen Frame buffer Object, even if it is a full screen application. There goes 66% of your GPU performance. All of the GUI is done with Qt Quick or Visual Basic scripts. Not only do you have to bind your GPU shaders to your application, GUI widgets have to be bound to the QML engine. When other developers come along to port to Android or iOS they have to write code in Java, Python or Cocoa. When it essentially a simple application written in C++ becomes a large mulch of different programming languages.

      Yes, all of that grinds the CPU down as well. An application running at 60+ FPS on a desktop ends up chugging at less than 15 FPS.

    10. Re: fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No mention of cows? I'm disappointed.

    11. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

      Companies Are ______ With Fewer ______.

      Put me down for "wasting time and money" and "people who know what they're talking about to catch mistakes early", please.

      The best example of this I've seen so far was an exercise in futility developing a simple in-house process automation system, essentially a glorified database with a bit of e-mail integration and a pretty browser-based interface.

      There were literally months of discussions among a team dominated by middle managers. Along the way, they spent approximately a mid-level developer's annual salary just on external consulting about using someone's workflow automation software, and IIRC that consultation eventually produced a single page of documentation that was basically an ugly diagram of a simple database schema. Finally, one of the few real developers on the team gave up in disgust and just built a basic version in about one day. Which the rest of the team then almost completely ignored, because these things need to be managed and showing initiative to solve the actual problems is a rookie mistake.

      It's easy to see why these tools are attractive for companies that don't generally do software development or web development or whatever it might be, but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Those of us who remember the joys of Microsoft Access databases and drag-and-drop "rapid application development" tools from the 90s have seen this all before. But now it's in the cloud, with convenient subscription-based pricing! There's a saying about those who don't learn from history...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    12. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

    13. Re:fill in the blanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of coal, Santa now gives the bad children ......? Michael Jackson.

      my fucking god that pic lol...

    14. Re:fill in the blanks by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      As long as the remaining employees include the proper quotas of ethnic minorities, females and those self-identifying as non-traditional genders I don't see the problem.

      (AmiMoJo is busy today).

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. This will drive pay down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As more and more people do the job that previously was the exclusive domain of developers, the value of developers and their corresponding pay should drop.

    1. Re:This will drive pay down by AlphaBro · · Score: 2

      Excellent point. As more tools like this appear from the aether, the value of developers will decline.

    2. Re:This will drive pay down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember when Visual Basic V1.0 came out and how it was going to revolutionize development making it drag and drop with a simple interface so that anyone could create the app they needed.

      How is visual basic these days? I dont think I have seen a VB app in business in many years.

    3. Re:This will drive pay down by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Excellent point. As more tools like this appear from the aether, the value of developers will decline.

      History says otherwise. Tools that make people more productive cause those people to be more valuable, not less. A developer that produces 10 apps per year is going to bring in more profit than a developer that produces one app per year, and can thus command a higher salary.

      Rising productivity does not cause poverty. It causes prosperity. If your brain is too dysfunctional to realize that through logic, then just open your eyes and look at the world: Countries/regions with high productivity: America, Western Europe, East Asia. Countries with low productivity: Ethiopia, Niger, Pakistan, North Korea. Do you really think the latter group have benefited by avoiding "job killing" productivity improvements?

    4. Re:This will drive pay down by AlphaBro · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with you. My original comment was a joke about the perception that these tools are product of something other than unseen developers.

    5. Re:This will drive pay down by AlphaBro · · Score: 1

      VB is actually alive and well as a first-class .NET language. It's not click and drag, of course, but it's a usable language with a solid API behind it.

    6. Re:This will drive pay down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yet another case of someone attempting to apply an absolute to a real-world problem. The historical trends you cited only apply to a situation where a significant number of human beings in the "world market" (such as it was) were in need of goods/services and could be counted on as customers; in other words, an anomaly. Do not expect the trend to continue.

      Once productivity outstrips demand (or rather, quantity demanded at any given point in time), continued increases in productivity only devalue labor, since you have a situation where you only need to produce X, but can do so with a declining number of people Y. If we apply this effect across all employers everywhere, they will all simultaneously seek to reduce Y while maintaining X. But as Y decreases, quantity demanded (X) must decrease as the overall buying power of people declines (due to layoffs), leading to a cascade effect in which X and Y decline together.

      You can not argue that increased productivity increases the value of human labor if quantity demanded is either static or (inevitably) in decline.

      Yes, a few people that remain valuable to industry of one sort or another WILL see an increase in pay as they take on the work of 2-4 or more former colleagues, but what of everyone else? Unless they "retrain" they will certainly see declining wages as they have been rendered obsolete in the view of the marketplace, reducing the effective value of their labor to 0 or near-0.

      "Retraining" means moving people into a new labor sector where they will compete with people already attempting to make a living. Increases in available labor there will drive down the real-world value of that labor.

      If you would open your eyes, you would notice that manufacturing worldwide is in decline, that long-term permanent unemployment in "developed" countries like the United States is up, and that growth is stagnant. Nations like Niger are poor examples as they have terrible socioeconomic dysfunction and have never functioned at a level even approaching optimal economic conditions. Attempting to apply labor supply/demand models to a nation like Niger is a waste of time. Just look at their labor laws!

    7. Re:This will drive pay down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VB.net is a horror show. And I write as someone who wrote, and supported, a *lot* of VB 6.0 apps for a very large company.

      Obviously when .Net came out we first tried transitioning to VB.Net as we had so much experience (and a huge code base) in VB6 but VB.Net has got some real Kludgy syntax, a frankly crappy syntax and after getting stuck in and learning C# I never want to touch VB.Net again. Obviously I will if the money's right but it's frankly just a shitty language !.

      Not to mention that the autocomplete for C# in Visual Studio is so much better than that for VB.Net.

      VB.Net's only purpose should have been to get hardcore VB 6.0 programmers used to the .Net framework. When you get stuck in it's so unlike VB 6.0 that you really need to make the effort to learn C#. It's a vastly superior language. Plus the pay's usually better :)

    8. Re:This will drive pay down by AlphaBro · · Score: 1

      I'm certainly no VB advocate. I agree with your points, especially related to syntax. But, it's alive nonetheless. Plenty of VB.NET jobs out there for others that feel differently.

    9. Re: This will drive pay down by orlanz · · Score: 1

      Your logic only holds true if the consumer part of the equation was a robot instead of a human. What you state has been historically repeated many times. Yes _some_ jobs will go extinct or pay far less. It's called "change". Has happened many times in the past at smaller and larger scales than what you describe. But the economy overall truly benefitted from all sorts of productivity increases... Some of which society forwent and banned (child labor) and was perfectly fine.

      Anyway back to humans. Human demand isn't flat. We don't want 3 meals a day if we can get four. We don't want a radio if we can get a TV. We don't want a small car if we can get a large one. Humans always want that one more thing. $10 pizza goes to $5 because of productivity increases, we still look to spend that other $5... On a bigger pizza, drink, movie, or icecream.

      Demand may not increase in dollar value but certainly demand goes up in terms of wants and needs... Until we have a world war that wipes out a large part of the population but if there is a healthy amount of debt involved, we will recover just fine. But that's another discussion.

    10. Re: This will drive pay down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Productivity gains almost always boil down to a transfer of wealth from labour to capital. The economy as a whole might benefit in an abstract sense but that hasn't helped actual people much in the last 30 years. We now work longer hours for less buying power.

    11. Re:This will drive pay down by jandersen · · Score: 2

      If your brain is too dysfunctional ...

      I think your reasoning is too simplistic - throughout history we have seen many times, how increased automation means job-losses for the people whose skills are being automated; I can't see how anybody can explain that away. Automation quite often also leads to loss of variation - products become more uniform, because a machine always makes it in the same way, and is able to produce in huge quantities; some would argue that this is another downside. However, it is true that over time the increased productivity often leads to better outcomes for society as a whole, once the people that lost their livelyhoods have gone away in one way or another.

      Another part of reasoning you haven't addressed is the fact that companies do this to drive down cost per unit produced; very often this means employing low-skilled, cheap workers instead of the more expensive, highly skilled ones. So, more employment for unskilled workers, which is good for them, of course, but since there will be less employment for the skilled workers, who lost out, there is less incentive for anyone to get an education in that particular skill. That, in turn, will lead to a situation where that skill becomes higly specialilsed; and if the skill is one that is still going to be of critical importance, then those few specialists will become very valuable, and thus expensive. And of course, the fewer there are of these experts, the closer you get to have a single point of failure, where companies can't find the critical staff they need. There's a bit of a cyclical argument going on here, but I think I have demonstrated that it isn't quite as simple as you suggest.

    12. Re:This will drive pay down by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      That's OK, because VB will leverage the Cloud, write it's own app, and then will advocate for you! All on it's own, it's Microsoft's new StalkerAPI! It uses cookies, tracking telemetry, and hard-coded OS exploits to write itself, self-publish on Play, Itunes, etc, deploy itself to all your contacts, and makes your life "more Connected"!

    13. Re: This will drive pay down by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2

      It tends to balance out if there is meaningful competition. At least for those goods where there is no bottleneck for production and competition can drive down prices.
      For instance, my own salary has seen only minor increases over the last ten years, but there are also a lot of cheap offers for technology stuff. Food and housing have seen more price hikes, but I can still live with those.

      And if it wasn't for politics supporting capital over labour, things would look even better for the "working class". A lot of the transfer of wealth from labour to capital was actually caused by shifts in legislation that favored the capital side.

      So while I don't trust the left-wing parties in my country too much, I'm increasingly inclined to support them in the next elections. Because I see plenty of evidence that it is needed to stop capital from grabbing an ever larger part of the pie.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    14. Re:This will drive pay down by jon3k · · Score: 1

      VB was hugely popular for years and allowed organizations to hire developers at much lower costs. I wouldn't call a technology a failure because it was displaced after a decade of heavy use.

    15. Re:This will drive pay down by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I remember when "fourth-generation languages" were supposed to revolutionize development in much the same way, back in the 1980s. I'm not old enough to remember when COBOL was supposed to do the same thing around 1960.

      And, in fact, non-developers got the ability to do some stuff that previously required developers. However, this freed up developers to do more interesting work, and didn't seem to depress developer employment and pay.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    16. Re:This will drive pay down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it did mean the admin had to do SQL queries.

  3. Natural progression by QuietLagoon · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's a natural progression. As a set of core functional requirements start to emerge, a way of easily implementing those core functional requirements also emerges.

    .
    For example, what I currently do in a LibreOffice spreadsheet used to require one or two developers to write the software to do the same thing.

    Now I just open a spreadsheet, enter some numbers and do the analysis myself.

    1. Re:Natural progression by chipschap · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have better tools to do more things but those tools came from skilled developers.

      In the "apps" world what I see is indeed more and more apps, about 95% or more of them crappy. Unskilled developers produce bad apps. Yes, that seems to be the trend.

    2. Re:Natural progression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yep visicalc is an amazing program. Oh wait you mean something recent!

      I have been doing this awhile. I have also converted a few excel spreadsheets to 'real' programs. It usually took many months and undoing of bad ideas.

      Programming spreadsheets usually exemplifies the worst of the worst in programming methodologies. Usually poor separation of control and data. Meaning it starts off fine. But eventually ends up very difficult to change anything for fear of breaking something else.

    3. Re:Natural progression by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      In 1987 I was "programming Lotus 123" for an engineering office, because the engineers were too busy in meetings and travel to be bothered learning how to do their job with "user friendly" spreadsheet software.

    4. Re:Natural progression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You have better tools to do more things but those tools came from skilled developers.

      In the "apps" world what I see is indeed more and more apps, about 95% or more of them crappy. Unskilled developers produce bad apps.

      Let them be. They will come crawling back to us when these crap apps start eating their margins.

    5. Re:Natural progression by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 2

      You have better tools to do more things but those tools came from skilled developers.

      In the "apps" world what I see is indeed more and more apps, about 95% or more of them crappy. Unskilled developers produce bad apps.

      Let them be. They will come crawling back to us when these crap apps start eating their margins.

      Not to mention the stellar security that these apps will come with. A motley crew of Russian or what have you hackers will clean out their databases and/or bank accounts before they have a chance to crawl back.

      --
      You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
    6. Re:Natural progression by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neat. It's almost like we didn't have Excel during the 90's and spreadsheet programs before that!

    7. Re:Natural progression by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      You have better tools to do more things but those tools came from skilled developers.

      Absolutely. But once the tool is written, it can be widely used without the need for a skilled developer at each user's location.

    8. Re:Natural progression by lgw · · Score: 2

      In the "apps" world what I see is indeed more and more apps, about 95% or more of them crappy. Unskilled developers produce bad apps. Yes, that seems to be the trend.

      So, what you're saying is: app appers only app apps? Not Luddite software?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Natural progression by chipschap · · Score: 2

      You have better tools to do more things but those tools came from skilled developers.

      Absolutely. But once the tool is written, it can be widely used without the need for a skilled developer at each user's location.

      Entirely correct, and that's the purpose of well-crafted tools. The tool user, however, must understand the purpose and limitations of said tool.

      Even the most well-crafted tools are subject to abuse by unskilled users. I don't mean someone who uses a spreadsheet to add up columns of numbers or balance a few accounts. I do mean users who (as one example) don't understand databases and so use their spreadsheet as the basis for some thrown-together, integrity-free, error-filled system. These are the users for whom their tool is a hammer and everything else is a nail.

    10. Re:Natural progression by chipschap · · Score: 1

      So, what you're saying is: app appers only app apps? Not Luddite software?

      As someone who "back in the day" coded extensively in assembler language, I've always been partial to Luddite software. Let's hear it for Fortran II !

    11. Re:Natural progression by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      True engineers still despise the idea of "users"

    12. Re:Natural progression by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 2

      I have also converted a few excel spreadsheets to 'real' programs.

      I used to do this as well. I always felt like a dermatologist trying to get a raging, untreated-for-three-years fungal infection under control.

      The phenomenon of accountant/programmers is a tragic one. The ones I encountered were all generally smart people, and once they started using Excel to build programs of a sort, they discovered they really liked it, way better than their real job. Which means, of course, that they probably should have been programmers all along, instead of whatever they ended up being. But I guess they were never exposed to programming before they decided on a career.

      The disease used to progress like this: spreadsheet; spaghetti-code Excel automaton; spaghetti-code Excel automaton with Access backend. The typical accountant/programmer only sought help when they ran up against the Microsoft-mandated maximum size of an Access database. By then, of course, it was far too late.

  4. Browser apps by unixisc · · Score: 3

    Does that include apps that simply involve invoking a browser and opening the website of the application in question? A tactic popular w/ Microsoft in Windows Phone/Mobile

    1. Re:Browser apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd bet on this. How many of these apps are "X for a different client so we changed the names and logos?"

    2. Re:Browser apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some companies are paying thousands to have this kind of 30 minute app developed. :)

    3. Re:Browser apps by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Probably includes almost nothing but those type of apps, with maybe a few 'plugins' (read, pluggable functions that are narrowly defined and compiled-in w/ no 'developer' intervention) tossed-in for good measure.

      What I'm curious about is how much bloat a typical app generated this way carries, versus a decent/competently-coded bespoke application on the same platform.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:Browser apps by chispito · · Score: 1

      Does that include apps that simply involve invoking a browser and opening the website of the application in question? A tactic popular w/ Microsoft in Windows Phone/Mobile

      I prefer that to websites that want me to download an app. Looking at you, Yelp.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    5. Re:Browser apps by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Actually, Yelp! is something that's better as an app than as a website. I usually use it on the go - in fact, that's one of the things I do use the smartphone for.

    6. Re:Browser apps by chispito · · Score: 1

      It may be a great app, but they shouldn't intentionally restrict the mobile web interface just to shoehorn you into using it. I don't really want more apps on my phone.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    7. Re:Browser apps by Dashiva+Dan · · Score: 1

      Actually, most companies buying this kind of work are paying thousands. Some are paying tens of thousands. But for those you need to prepend a few months of meetings to the 30m of dev time to justify it :)

      --
      "lt;dr" is the correct response to most of my posts.
  5. We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sharepoint and InfoPath. This has caused nothing but more problems for us.

    1. Re:We have these by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Sharepoint seems to be only slightly less productive than an e-mail folder and a shared drive somewhere on the network.

    2. Re:We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My job would grind to a halt without SharePoint (Im a lawyer). It allows you to track changes in documents and basically annotate a "folder" in any of a.hundred ways. You cant do that with a shared driver folder. For law firms where 30 or 300 lawyers might touch a document its absolutely a lifesaver. Email and a shared drive folder work fine when its like one or two people working on a file for anything more involved and you want SharePoint.

      Smallish firms use lesser "litigation management systems" but they are a shadow of what you can do in SharePoint in terms of version tracking, comment flow, and grading junior members. We have a QC processes for the work product of support staff and junior attorneys. SharePoint provide report card functionality for our QC people on top of everything else. It is a beautiful when it is working right but Microsoft is constantly breaking it with upgrades we don't want or need....

    3. Re:We have these by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 2

      Quite possibly the most succinct analysis of Sharepoint I have ever read.

      This beer is for you, sir.

    4. Re:We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My job would grind to a halt without SharePoint (Im a lawyer). It allows you to track changes in documents and basically annotate a "folder" in any of a.hundred ways. You cant do that with a shared driver folder. For law firms where 30 or 300 lawyers might touch a document its absolutely a lifesaver.

      If 300 lawyers are modifying a document the law firm has bigger problems than Microsoft SlothPoint. LaTeX, git, a distraction-free text editor, and some LaTeX templates designed for specific legal tasks / purposes are all a law firm needs for document creation. The fact most law firms use Microsoft Office is a signal of the end times. LOL

    5. Re:We have these by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Office doesn't annotate well enough for law. Given the context nature of the problem, I would be shocked if SharePoint does either. There are special purpose tools for this (in the legal field).

      I really have my doubts about the SharePoint groupie.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re: We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since a lawyer makes thousands of time the amount of money a nerd could only dream about with considerable effort, and the fact that he can't be replaced by a H1B or outsourced clearly shows who's the winner here. You can take your suggestion and shove them up your ass so they can be with the shit where they belong. Don't forget your LaTeX gloves, nerd. Now be grateful we're only pissing on you this time.

    7. Re: We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn it! We wrote abicollab in 2008 to provide all this functionality but we never thought of law firms for a target market. Oh well, it was only a hobby...

    8. Re:We have these by lgw · · Score: 1

      There's this technology called "version control". It's rather nice.

      Back in the day when sane people still used CVS, I put together a doc store based on CVS with a nice Windows plug-in. Word has a diff viewer, so you could present version diffs as if they used Word change tracking. Would be trivial to do that with SVN today.

      Also, folders can have a "readme.txt" in them with all the annotations you want, but that's far too straightforward for anyone who would use Sharepoint.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:We have these by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      I've used trac for about a decade now, and it does document revision control (using svn behind the scenes, I believe) - also hooks into svn or git repositories.

      There's a funny thought: lawyers using git for document revision control. It could work quite well, except for the cultural impossibilities.

    10. Re:We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      true, git is a developer tool. It's not for ever peasant. I would suggest ownCloud. It can do all and easy to setup. Plus your data stays on you server (unless you want to use gdrive, dropbox, onedrive etc.)
      Yeah, you need to think about computer illiterate lawyers.

    11. Re:We have these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SVN would probably work better as it's better at handling the binary files that lawyers tend to use. Unless you could convince them to work in a text-based format which Git could handle better. (Yes, there are hacks like GitLFS, but git just doesn't do binary well.)

    12. Re:We have these by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Office doesn't annotate well enough for law.

      I think you need to be more specific than "the law". Our lawyers frequently use Microsoft Word for redlining contracts, works great. Sharepoint Document Libraries actually work really well for storing these. There are certainly lots of other systems that work as well, or better (ie Enterprise File Sync and Share Applications like Box, Syncplicity, etc).

  6. which one?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which are these low-code / no-code platforms?
    I think they are talking about data entry jobs...

  7. Isn't this what VB was for? by Rinikusu · · Score: 0

    no body

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
    1. Re:Isn't this what VB was for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably, only VB isn't web friendly so nobody uses it for much of anything anymore. The new stuff is like VB but with net friendly BS on top.

    2. Re:Isn't this what VB was for? by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      VB, PHP(spit!), JavaScript... the commonality is the ease with which a neophyte can 'code' something, and in the process open some real nasty and easily-exploitable security holes with 'em (which reminds me... how does the TFA product avoid a lot of this?)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  8. This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Yawning skills gap" is just the excuse they use. The fact is that development platforms have become so much better and have been automated so much that less developers are needed. And that's the way business wants it - to lower costs and boost profits.

    Shit, back in the Win32/C days and writing resource files, what takes a couple of hours with today's Visual Studio took days 20 or years ago. And that's just the GUI! When we had to connect to databases, we had to put in all this embedded SQL code! Now, it just drag and drop.

    Dev teams used to be a couple of dozen now it's two or three people.

    Programming in the near future is going to be a shrinking profession and in our lifetimes, I see it going away. Computers are advancing to the point where they won't be programmed but trained. It's about time.

    Back in the day, you had to move wires around to program and then someone had the bright idea of assembly. Then someone invented human readable code. And we've been programming like that for what? 60 years now? Programming hasn't changed much at all since then. We're basically writing code. The syntax has changed in some cases but it's the same old shit. (Spare me how your language of choice is some groundbreaking innovation - it's not.)

    Soon, we'll see programming as we know it disappear. Coding will be looked upon like we do now when people had to move patch cables around to program machines.

    1. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, we will not see "programming disappear". This same stuff has been predicted continuously for decades now. People skilled in the use of tools are many times more productive than those who are unskilled. As the tools themselves get more productive, the skilled users become more valuable. What I suspect we are seeing here is the temporary drop in the usefulness of software due to phones and tablets causing the unskilled to be able to produce "state of the art". This is a temporary phenomena that will end when software and computers become more useful again.

    2. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Back in the day, you had to move wires around to program and then someone had the bright idea of assembly. Then someone invented human readable code. And we've been programming like that for what? 60 years now? Programming hasn't changed much at all since then. We're basically writing code.

      What nonsense.

      I remember when "lines of code" was a widely-accepted measure of programmer productivity -- and the industry standard was single digit counts per programmer per day. That's less than ten lines per day per developer. And these were mostly programs for batch processing; some systems supported interactive use, where you'd type a command on a terminal, enter data in response to some prompts, and then see results. There was process-control stuff happening, too, but when a system executing thousands of instructions per second had to control a physical process, it wasn't very elaborate -- there wasn't time, never mind RAM, for much complexity. So, programmers thought really hard about each line that they wrote. (Are you old enough to have heard the term "desk checking"? Why waste valuable computer time trying to compile and run something, when it's got bugs that you should have caught with a few hours' review?)

      By the standards of those days, most of today's code is profligate waste -- coddling the users, correcting their mistakes, presenting things in a way that's convenient to the user rather than the computer. But by the standards of those days, displaying streaming video or recognizing speech by comparing it against a multi-terabyte distributed archive of conversational snippets is bleeding magic.

      And being able to invoke that power by calling a simple API? Oh, sure, that's exactly like duplicating your Quicksort card deck to add it into your current FORTRAN job.

    3. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by clodney · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, we will not see "programming disappear". This same stuff has been predicted continuously for decades now. People skilled in the use of tools are many times more productive than those who are unskilled. As the tools themselves get more productive, the skilled users become more valuable. What I suspect we are seeing here is the temporary drop in the usefulness of software due to phones and tablets causing the unskilled to be able to produce "state of the art". This is a temporary phenomena that will end when software and computers become more useful again.

      I don't think we will see programming disappear, but I think we will see the low hanging fruit moving away from professional developers and into a generic white collar worker. Think about the progression of clerical functions - years ago you had a pool of typists, because it was both a manual skill that most office workers did not have, and difficult enough that it was worthwhile to farm it out to specialists (though in this case the specialists were cheap). Then we had word processing come in, and initially it was done by clerical staff, but the bar was raised in terms of what constituted "professional looking" output. Then the software became easy enough, and the office workers sufficiently used to typing and using computers that word processing as a dedicated job function has moved into a publishing role.

      Now we have a situation where everyone is expected to be able to use a word processor, and while anyone can type up a simple letter or paper, turning those same people loose on a multi-chapter book that is expected to use consistent styles and formatting rules is asking for trouble. Talk to any tech writer or publisher, and you will hear horror stories about documents in exactly the same way we talk about spaghetti code.

    4. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by lgw · · Score: 1

      automated so much that less developers are needed.

      Wierd Al would like to have a word with you.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re: This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember the really really good old days. Back then we measured it by line width and also sometimes if the text was in bold or not.

      Some guys tried italics, but the manager wasn't easily fooled...

    6. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We will see programming disappear the same way UNIX workstations disappeared... they wind up in such small a niche that it isn't bothered with. Between high level languages which sacrifice a lot for rapid design, H-1B contractors and offshore dev houses which can crank out code for a fraction of the cost a FTE dev could, with far higher quality standards, the concept of programming is more of an edge case than a mainstream item these days.

      For tasks like embedded chipsets, one might need an actual dev, but for virtually anything else, one can call Tata, Infosys, or IBM.

    7. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Sure the first computers were 'simple' but they were only used on "simple" problems such as calculating artillery tables. The complexity we can handle at any point in computer history is bound by the physical limits of our hardware and our knowledge of maths. There is only one way for software to reduce complexity and that is the discovery of new maths. For instance an analytical solution to the Navier-Stokes equations would revolutionise computer modelling, in fact it would make it simple enough for a human to calculate it by hand.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    8. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Productivity rises, quality rises, but now since the use of these tools is expected by default, the workers do not benefit, only the owners.

      Eventually, "learn X to expand your ability to do Y", universally, results in no gain for the person considering making the effort.

      That's when the system reaches truly broken status.

    9. Re: This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by locketine · · Score: 2

      I'm calling you out on the "far higher quality standards" bluff. I've worked with big name, cheap labor shops, and it was far from high quality, but it was delivered quickly and cheaply. For proof of concept and quick market capture they're an excellent choice but you'll have to recreate your product later when the tech debt grinds your product to a halt and loses you customers due to service outages and inability to fulfill changing business requirements.

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
    10. Re:This has nothing to do with "skills gap". by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Low-hanging fruit has been going over the wall to non-developers for a long time. When I first got into the profession, creating a simple report from what we had instead of a database would take a few days of my valuable time. Nowadays, we have tools so non-developers can create simple reports, and I do more interesting things.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. Right... by zifn4b · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe it's because I don't live on the West Coast but I have yet to see or even hear about one of these platforms. Where I work, writing a SQL query flies over the heads of the majority of product managers and business analysts. QA requires a lot of hand-holding. I'm old enough to remember the days when the non-techies tried to write software platforms hacking VBA in Excel and Access and that turned out really well.

    This is not a new promise. It's been made before and it seems this article is slanted towards one particular product the one I haven't heard of. I know people have been customizing CMS's with clever hacking to make them work for purposes they weren't intended like WordPress and Joomla and so forth but it's not anywhere near what it needs to be to meet real, ever increasing business needs. Heck, for all the progress that HTML5, CSS, Javascript/ECMAScript and all the MVC/MVVM tool stacks that sit on top of them, for most cutting edge companies, it still ain't good enough. They want the sun, the moon and the stars. If hard-core development tool stacks can't deliver it, these lo code/no code solutions sure as heck can't come close.

    --
    We'll make great pets
    1. Re:Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it's because I don't live on the West Coast but I have yet to see or even hear about one of these platforms. Where I work, writing a SQL query flies over the heads of the majority of product managers and business analysts. QA requires a lot of hand-holding. I'm old enough to remember the days when the non-techies tried to write software platforms hacking VBA in Excel and Access and that turned out really well.

      This is not a new promise. It's been made before and it seems this article is slanted towards one particular product the one I haven't heard of. I know people have been customizing CMS's with clever hacking to make them work for purposes they weren't intended like WordPress and Joomla and so forth but it's not anywhere near what it needs to be to meet real, ever increasing business needs. Heck, for all the progress that HTML5, CSS, Javascript/ECMAScript and all the MVC/MVVM tool stacks that sit on top of them, for most cutting edge companies, it still ain't good enough. They want the sun, the moon and the stars. If hard-core development tool stacks can't deliver it, these lo code/no code solutions sure as heck can't come close.

      Looking at QuickBase.intuit.com, there's this really hilarious screen saying "make the rules" - eg. you enter a series of rules for a dynamic form....
      And you define tables..... and tasks..... and ... hey! this sounds like programming! I wonder if I could build a C++ compiler in quickbase?

    2. Re:Right... by StormReaver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where I work, writing a SQL query flies over the heads of the majority of product managers and business analysts.

      This is pretty close to the core of a problem that can't be fixed with drag and drop tools. The core problem isn't writing code. That's the easy part that anyone can learn. The real problem is analysis, a skill that very few people (relative to the business population) have. All the code generators in the world won't solve that problem.

      A good developer isn't a good developer because he can write code. He is a good developer because he can integrate the components of a system into a coherent whole. No programming automation system will magically teach someone how to do that.

      As you've said before, we've seen this promise come and go more than once in the last 30 years. Like "cloud computing" and the dot bomb, this fad will peak and fall.

    3. Re:Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because MS FrontPage put millions of programmers outta job back in the day...

      This is just a passing fad. We'll see what happens when the first big security flaw is exploited.

    4. Re:Right... by helixcode123 · · Score: 2

      You hit the nail on the head. Wish I had mod points.

      --

      In a band? Use WheresTheGig for free.

    5. Re:Right... by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Much of the essence of building a program is in fact the debugging of the specification."

      Fred Brooks, No Silver Bullet

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  10. Same as it's always been by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tools emerge to let the business teams implement their business logic. This frees up the good developers to develop good things and the bad developers to get promoted to management.

  11. and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    today's low-code shortcut is tomorrow's abandoned platform ... cold fusion ... delphi ... VB6 ... you name it, it's been abandoned ... placing bets on a fly by nite startup's platform is not a good idea ...

    1. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      10 print "Wow, I can make apps with this tool without hiring an expensive developer."
      20 print "Oh, this tool only lets me make generic apps and none of the unique features I need; hire a developer."
      30 goto 10

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    2. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by Ronin+Developer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Delphi was and is not a low-code solution. It is a RAD environment where some really simple apps (i.e. the Fish app) could be built by dropping a few components on a form and linking the properties and writing a couple of events. But, most applications (and visual/non-visual component creation required coding skills.

      What killed Delphi was stupid decisions by Borland/Inprise to move away from what they did best and become an "Enterprise" company instead of a developer company. They also concentrated on Windows-only development when other platforms (mobile, web, Linux, Mac) were becoming popular (see first f'up). And, they raised the price so far that even dedicated developers and can't afford it's stratospheric pricing ($2600+) - only Gods and birds can reach it.

      The language is a dialect of Object Pascal (not in vogue despite its power). Delphi is the IDE and hasn't changed much over the years. It can now target Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android. Linux server is coming. It is very easy to create a highly complex, cross- platform application in a way that Xamarin can't touch. Performance for business apps is good. But, I have yet to see a real game written using it. And, good luck in getting Delphi into your IT shop these days (at least in the US).

      Not until developers can afford it again and work with it to see its power (if they can tolerate the language), it will regain its market share.

    3. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      The problem is that nobody can predict the future. Can you point to any currently popular language and say with reasonable certainty that it will be viable 15 years from now?

      By the way, Java may now start dying due to Oracle's aggressive lawyers, and McAfee's by-default re-scanning the Java libraries every time you sneeze, and twice if don't.

    4. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by chuckugly · · Score: 2

      They should have dropped Pascal or at least relegated it second place and taken C++ Builder full on as their premier platform. This was about the time I dropped Borland as a tools vendor. They were off in the weeds building things virtually no one wanted while C++ and it's children were taking over the world. The drop of BCPP as a world class compiler was the beginning of the end for Borland.

    5. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by chuckugly · · Score: 1

      C++

    6. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you looked at C++Builder recently? The starter edition is available for free right now. All compilers are now based on clang. It's moving forward again.

    7. Re:and they're abandoned in 10... 9... 8... 7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The key detail is that the developer gets hired after hours have already been sunk into trying to make something work with the app-building tool, and so the person wanting help is now very invested in it and doesn't want to pay to rewrite it in something else.

      So then you have a developer trying to get real work done with toy tools.

  12. Simple or disposable apps by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This'll work fine for very simple apps, ones that only require standardized functionality. But then, with an app like that, do you really need to develop a custom one for any reason other than branding/appearance? And it'll work for disposable apps, ones that do the current job but don't need to be maintained or enhanced down the road. That's been true forever, it's why spreadsheets and word processors had macro languages so secretaries and accountants could do simple operations and calculations without needing to have the programming team get involved. But the moment you start dealing with an app with complex functionality that has to be changed, enhanced and extended over time, that's when you'll discover that you need software engineers. It's the same reason anybody who can grab a hammer and saw can cobble together a sawhorse that'll work for one job, but you need someone who understands architecture and construction to build a house that's expected to last for decades.

    1. Re:Simple or disposable apps by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Wasn't C0807 (I will not utter its name here) designed so that accountants could write programs? Then there was CASE, anybody remember that fad?

      Yay, just write all your core business applications using MIT scratch!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Simple or disposable apps by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it may turn out that a large percentage of companies have needs that overlap. I think it's safe to say that wrapping databases in UI is not going to keep being a $100k+ skill for much longer.

      Nobody cares if it'll last for decades. Most apps are not expected to deliver useful value at all by the people who order them. It's really only after the app has proven to be useful and profitable that the suits begin to think about longevity and scalability.

      Now, repairing poorly made applications... That's going to keep being lucrative for decades to come, or at least until the government gets sick of poorly made applications and decides to impose 'building codes' for software.

    3. Re:Simple or disposable apps by noblethrasher · · Score: 1
      Actually, one of the ideas articulated and advanced by Alan Kay is that non-technical domain experts should be the people that design and implement most line-of-business apps, and that their IT departments should only do optimizations.

      One of the reasons that is may not have worked vis-à-vis the RAD platforms like Access and Excel is that the GUI part always looked polished irrespective of the quality of the program.

      But, Scratch programs always looks like toy prototypes, so they never fool the non-technical user into thinking that they built something indistinguishable from what experts do.

      Presumably, optimization doesn't necessarily mean making it run faster, but rather is about making is scalable (which means things like cleaning the codebase, addressing security issues, etc.).

    4. Re:Simple or disposable apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This'll work fine for very simple apps, ones that only require standardized functionality. But then, with an app like that, do you really need to develop a custom one for any reason other than branding/appearance? And it'll work for disposable apps, ones that do the current job but don't need to be maintained or enhanced down the road. That's been true forever, it's why spreadsheets and word processors had macro languages so secretaries and accountants could do simple operations and calculations without needing to have the programming team get involved. But the moment you start dealing with an app with complex functionality that has to be changed, enhanced and extended over time, that's when you'll discover that you need software engineers. It's the same reason anybody who can grab a hammer and saw can cobble together a sawhorse that'll work for one job, but you need someone who understands architecture and construction to build a house that's expected to last for decades.

      No, silly, the APP APP non-dev APP lets you just glue together sawhorse APPS to make a house APP, or a citadel APP, etc.

    5. Re:Simple or disposable apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haven't you heard about LEAN?? Haven't you passed the exams on AGILE?? They don't want it for the next decade, they want it tomorrow, or preferably TODAY. Which corners can you cut that will make it happen and can't you just PLEASE FIX IT??

    6. Re:Simple or disposable apps by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      >> I think it's safe to say that wrapping databases in UI is not going to keep being a $100k+ skill for much longer.

      Thank {{DEITY}} there's the "business logic" layer and "security" to keep us all over-employed then. :)

    7. Re:Simple or disposable apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/engineer/programmer. There is no such thing as a "Software Engineer". Engineering encompasses physics-based disciplines like electrical, mechanical and chemical. None of those apply to programming just as a "Sanitation Engineer" does not use the laws of physics to calculate or design when it comes to the collection of garbage in the morning.

    8. Re:Simple or disposable apps by lgw · · Score: 1

      If you say COBOL 3 times in the mirror ... Java appears!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Simple or disposable apps by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Alan Kay is that non-technical domain experts should be the people that design and implement most line-of-business apps, and that their IT departments should only do optimizations.

      So you get a a half-assed implementation and have to reverse engineer the spec from it? Doesn't seem like a brilliant idea to me.

      Scratch programs always looks like toy prototypes, so they never fool the non-technical user into thinking that they built something indistinguishable from what experts do.

      There are a number of answers to that. In increasing order of sarcasm:

      - If it's designed sensibly (i.e. separates presentation from data, resource files) you can easily change the appearance. If it isn't designed sensibly you can still do it because it's open source.

      - You've never dealt with people from Marketing, have you?

      - Whoosh!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  13. Next buzzword by AlanBDee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    “You don’t need to know how to code in order to use them, but you do need strong analytical skills,”

    Um yep. Knowing how to read and write a programming language is the easy part. Having the analytical skills to achieve the task is why we get paid well.

    "low-code platform" is just another buzzword unless there is a difference between "low-code platform" and SAP, OBI, Sharepoint, infopath, etc.

    Our Sharepoint developer also codes in C#. Sharepoint is just a tool for him.

    1. Re:Next buzzword by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um yep. Knowing how to read and write a programming language is the easy part. Having the analytical skills to achieve the task is why we get paid well.

      Hell, I've watched developers break upon the rocky shores of analytics packages.

      You're always going to be able to do more low-skill labor with less people - welcome to progress. There's never going to be a shortage of high-skill labor - welcome to continued progress. Most people who think they're high-skill, aren't, is always the problem - welcome to the human condition.

    2. Re:Next buzzword by A+Pressbutton · · Score: 1

      Having seen a SAP implementation recently, I would say 'low-code' would be a step up.

    3. Re:Next buzzword by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “You don’t need to know how to code in order to use them, but you do need strong analytical skills,”

      Um yep. Knowing how to read and write a programming language is the easy part. Having the analytical skills to achieve the task is why we get paid well.

      "low-code platform" is just another buzzword unless there is a difference between "low-code platform" and SAP, OBI, Sharepoint, infopath, etc.

      Our Sharepoint developer also codes in C#. Sharepoint is just a tool for him.

      I remember https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... The Last One

    4. Re:Next buzzword by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, so this is the new programming? Using 'analytical skills' to place 'decision modules' onto a flow chart using a GUI, UX, WYSIWYG interface, and then pressing the Export button to produce an App... I am highly suspicious.

      FYI analytical skills are needed in every, EVERY job out there. Including mowing your grass. To rely on that as a basis for hiring talent, again leaves me suspicious.

  14. No-code is bullshit by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 1

    Just because you are not writing C or Java code does not mean your are not programming. Low-code/No-code is just new buzzwords for high level programming environments which have existed for 20+ years.
    And yes, a not of problems can be fixed by non-devs in these kind of environment basically because these problems are not really that complex but there is an enormous problem trying to explain the problem from the "business" environment to the dev environment. These low-code/no-code environment simply provide a formal method of defining the problem. And as every dev knows, a formal definition of a problem is executable (i.e. a program).

  15. RAD is here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Again.. Next we will dig up the tapes of those CASE environment sources and try to integrate those into the fold.

  16. Speaking of QuickBase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I work at a company that uses it. It takes a certain developer mindset to go beyond the rudimentary capabilities of QB. Then, the poor decisions and ad-hoc work-arounds become apparent, making upkeep and extensibility difficult, if not, impossible. Then, if you wanna do something more advanced, like copying data from one table to another OR automating tasks OR using external data, you run into the hard limits of the application (lotsa "quickbase doesn't support that" from QB support).
    Then, you're either stuck with an application that doesn't do what you need OR an absolutely horrific migration to another platform OR a Frankensteining with 3rd party providers' solutions.

  17. I've seen this kind of thing before by jlowery · · Score: 2

    Looking at the links Google turns up for "low code". Marketing hype is all I'm seeing. This will be sold to CEOs the world over and it will fall short. Remember CASE? CORBA? 4GL? Visual Basic? Same smell.

    --
    If you post it, they will read.
  18. This is nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is exactly what VB used to be used for until we got assholes telling us that VB was not a proper programming language and there was no room for it in a corporate environment.

    1. Re:This is nothing new by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      For small-ish (non-enterprise) apps, the real problem with VB Classic was not really the language or IDE, but the deployment and DLL-Hell, especially if it used 3rd-party components. The installation and help-desk staff hated that aspect.

  19. Which is no problem, unless internet or important by raymorris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Having people writing scripts to make their job easier can be great. Sometimes you don't need to actually know what you're doing to write software.

    It only becomes a big problem when either a) it's exposed on the internet, where hacker bots hit it a thousand ties per day (headline: Acme Corp exposes 12 Million Credit Cards) or b) the data is actually important to your business. Example you write "rm $file", that's no problem until someone puts a * in a file name and it deletes everything in the folder.

    If it's going to be on the internet, or deal with mission-critical data or resources, it's good to have it done by people who know what they're doing, who know what the common errors are and how to avoid them*.

    * Not everyone with the word "developer" in their title is qualified. Does their education include systems development, or do they have a chemistry degree?

  20. RAD is 25 years old. by mtippett · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Search for Rapid Application Development from the 90's.

    Powerbuilder is one such tool that started getting built in early 1990's. What is old is new again.

    1. Re:RAD is 25 years old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Powerbuilder is still quite popular, for some reason.

    2. Re:RAD is 25 years old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..and even Powerbuilder wasn't 'low code'. It was an IDE, with a form/window editor and its own programming language. Non-programmers couldn't use it beyond placing a button that printed "Hello World!" when clicked. Just like any other RAD platform. Once the problem set required a database, file I/O, networking, etc. and especially multi-user, it would be back into the old 'programmer' world.

      As others have said here already, this really smacks of some new young MBAs and programmers thinking they've invented something new, yet they're completely wrong. Sadly though we'll all have to endure the business cycle of discovering this isn't a magic bullet...

  21. Re:Which is no problem, unless internet or importa by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Multi user too.

    Writing some macros that tie word and a spreadsheet together might work ok for the non developer that created it, but once multiple people start using it, the fact that the author didn't know anything about mutex or acid or race conditions will be a re-run of the mid to late 90s all over again.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  22. I have heard this one before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The key skill in software development is not the ability to code. The key skill is the ability to understand the requirements,constraints and trade-offs. There is also a huge barrier to overcome in communication.

    Who will watch the watchers? The users will run amok making apps that have real world consequences,yet have not been tested properly.

    Finally,good developers,of which I only aspire to,spend a lot of time deconstructing problems and thinking of abstractions,edge cases and architectures,which are not the forte of lot of typical line business people.

    So,we will have software then that could one or more of these things:
    1) gets the right answer for the wrong reason
    2) gets the wrong answer,but it goes undetected until there is a catastrophe
    3) kills people or breaks things
    4) crashes,halts or starts to try to compute answers that cannot be computed using all the possible computing resources of space and time
    5) create the appearance of work,but without any impact on business goals,creating a subtle drag on an organization

    I invite everyone that is interested to learn programming,but please get some adult supervision.

  23. citizen developers!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    known in the business as "citizen developers"
    A new entry for Buzz word bingo!

  24. Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Accountants have been writing sophisticated programs in Excel for many years.

  25. Just last week... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..my development team and I sat through a demo of one of these low-code environments (cough, cough, outsystems, cough). The damn thing was so convoluted that he was jumping around from menu to menu setting up a database query that we could have done in a few lines of C/java/python/etc code. At the end of said demo I told the sales engineer that he didn't have a development environment, he had a flow-charting app that tried to generate code.

  26. Tools to let managers write SW on their own? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and we'll call it "COBOL."

  27. So that means we don't need any h1b's right?

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  28. It was all foretold. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    What? A disconnect between IT and the users.

    That's what the two Bobs get for firing the requirements guy.

    Of course in the old days, the SMEs just bit the bullet and changed the world anyways.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  29. The article is just an ad for Quickbase by edxwelch · · Score: 1

    The article appears to be just an ad for Quickbase, which is, as far as I can tell, some type of buzzword based database platform.

  30. let the avalanche of crappy apps continue by wardk · · Score: 2

    no skills coding, what could go wrong?

  31. Skills that thrill by martinX · · Score: 1

    "“Almost any employee now can do most or all of the same work that developers used to do,” says Mnookin."

    Yep, just like any employee can be trusted with the company's web site. Do you want your app to look like MySpace, because that's how you get an app that looks like MySpace.

    --
    When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    1. Re:Skills that thrill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the tools are made available to the masses you end up with a deluge of cheap-as-fuck, samey-looking, angry-fruit-salad "content".
      The internet made everyone an author: Now 4Chan and Tumblr exist.

      Forget MySpace, think GeoCities.

  32. Kind of like Electronic Health Records by tomhath · · Score: 1

    Instead of having data entry people transcribing a doctor's notes we can give the doc an EHR and let him/her enter the data directly.

    Nobody cares if we replaced a fairly expensive resource with a very, very expensive resource.

    1. Re:Kind of like Electronic Health Records by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It works in Norway. Doctor enters your prescription in the database, gives you a copy. You go to the pharmacy, and they can check the prescription is valid. No mistakes due to illegible handwriting or offshored transcription.

  33. but, but ,but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I thought we need to teach EVERYONE how to code because..umm...something.

  34. PHB Alert [Re:Simple or disposable apps] by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    It's long been true that maintenance is a bigger cost than original coding and that doesn't appear to be changing. It's counter-intuitive, but true.

    I've been asked to fix or change Excel-based "applications" built by non-techies, and they were a maintenance nightmare.

    If it's a short-term project, that's fine. But in the longer run, roll-your-own-pasta for anything lasting will actually require more developers. Pay the piper now or triple later.

  35. Journalistic nonsense by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

    Let me guess: the author thinks readers would be pleased to hear that not even coders are immune to losing their high paying jobs so she comes up with a speculation about the future of software development based on minor blips on the tech landscape in very nichy areas, historical patterns be damned.

    1. Re:Journalistic nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What hasn't been considered in this "discussion" is what the ultimate "cost" to these cheapskate corporations will ultimately be...

      I'm a retired software QC engineer from a major name in the computer industry (which acquired the company that acquired the
      one I'd been working for for 20+ years), and just reached Medicare age. My wife's benefits are supposed to continue under my
      old plan. Their "process" ultimately required that I call them back on my birthday - no, it could not happen before then, apparently -
      to have my wife set up with her own account. Well, they managed to do that, but despite several phone calls, chat sessions and
      e-mails, their splash page still croaked when my wife attempted to set up direct debit payments. They claimed it was because we
      were using Safari on a Mac, but the problem persisted when Safari was configured to report itself as Microsoft Edge, and it also
      persisted when I signed on to her account under Windows 10 (under Parallels on El Capitan). What's the point? Well, it turned out
      that their site was/is mis-configured; we were finally able to set up our payments by clicking on her "profile", instead of the main
      "button" (or tile, if you insist on swallowing MSFT's ) and using that applet. But, more to the point, is that they'd deployed
      software that didn't work in the way that their own employees had been told it should have, that it obviously hadn't been properly
      tested, and critical functionality was broken to the point where my wife would have been left uninsured because of their mistakes.
      We were on the brink of telling them that we considered this situation to be "actionable".

      So, no, it's not journalistic nonsense - there are REAL problems and consequences to using RAD without the associated
      discernment of detailed application requirements and appropriate quality control testing, as well as security testing, and that is
      something that the corporate decision makers need to seriously consider.

  36. This is an advertisement, not an article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So 'QuickBase' is the hot new thing and beating it's competition...who are not named in the article? Drag and drop software design for 'non programmers'? I'd laugh if it wasn't so nauseating.

  37. Like VBA when it was new by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

    The trend is not entirely new. Microsoft has been building macros into Office many years ago to enable semi-technical people to better automate their work. With some success, but also some drawbacks such as some pretty shortsighted "software design" by people who never understood the theory of what they were doing.

    Today, I still see the occasional job offer that calls for someone with VBA skills, but it has not wiped out software engineering. What I do see is that there is somewhat less demand for optimization, because often a half-assed program is "good enough" when running on modern hardware. That is something I find regrettable, but I can live with it.

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
    1. Re: Like VBA when it was new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The of understanding of design principles is they key problem. It's fine to do a rush job for a small project or something with a short life, but a nightmare when a hack becomes part of the infrastructure. You can't always fix a problem by throwing CPU horsepower at an issue when someone made a database with no understanding of how relational databases should be designed.

    2. Re: Like VBA when it was new by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      nightmare when a hack becomes part of the infrastructure

      Like that delivery routing system that the ex-ex-ex-ex-CFO's nephew wrote in the school holidays, which doesn't work for the third of the city that was built after 1987 and nobody knows how to extend it because it's all hard-coded spaghetti?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re: Like VBA when it was new by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      As a Pastafarian, I take great offense at your usage of the term "spaghetti" code! We all must fully extend and embrace His Noodly Appendage into our coding practices too!

  38. Choose 2... by phorm · · Score: 1

    Choose 2
    * More product
    * Less overhead
    * Better quality

    Guess which one is losing out in many of these cases...

  39. QuickBase is awesome... by PhantomHarlock · · Score: 2

    ...but the price is not. They have no serious competitors as far as I can tell, the market is screaming for competition. If you need to build a network-accessible database driven application that runs in a browser, it's really, really slick.

    I was involved with a project to build a type of customer database using QuckBase - it would track and follow a customer's project all the way to completion, and multiple people with different roles could interact with it in various ways. Imagine Filemaker Pro or MS Access on steroids and network enabled.

    To earn our business, QBase reps basically built the bones of the program in realtime as we chatted on the phone and watched via webex, for free and gave us a month to play with it at no cost. After that it was around $300 per month, so out of range of individuals but fine for businesses that can justify it with revenue.

    I think there is a huge future for this market that's waiting to be tapped further. Right now it's a bit of a monopoly.

    1. Re:QuickBase is awesome... by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      QuickBase has no competitors.. except for AirTable, FieldBook, Caspio, Xoricon, PerfectForms, MS PowerApps, Brilliant Database, Ragic, Google Sheets, Zoho, Glom, Credenza, Trello, Asana, the list goes on and on

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  40. Re: Demand by hackwrench · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which is why i would eat 10 pizzas and buy 20 laptops, cars, houses, etc. if I only had the money.

    Oh, wait... I wouldn't. I'm tired of that old chestnut of infinite wants, limited resources going unchallenged. The first is only true over time and the latter is generally true over a fixed period of time.

  41. They know all about about acid by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > fact that the author didn't know anything about mutex or acid or race conditions will be a re-run of the mid to late 90s

    Some of the code I've dealt, it appears the author knew all about acid. And mushrooms. :)

  42. Sounds like my former position by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was billed out at $180.hour, forced to do work as part of my job that a part-time secretary could do.

  43. Re: Demand by orlanz · · Score: 1

    I guess you, your siblings, and your cousins also share one car because your grandfather only had one. How about one house? How about the number of phone lines or TVs or PCs?

    Maybe it isn't true for you but most of today's generation owns more cars, buys more than one car, and even more than one house compared to their forefathers. The number of TVs, PCs, cellphones, airline trips, etc have all increased per household. Demand has most certainly increased and more so than a static curve to population growth. In other countries, it's just different rungs on the same ladder. They eat more meat, have AC, color TVs, small cars, expensive rice, etc.

    These demands are isolated. Another house being built because Larry wanted to move to something bigger means more food vending, gas buying, lumber, nails, sales guys, appliances, furniture, etc.

    It doesn't have to be that the item gets cheaper to increase demand. We get bananas year around and almost any other fruit. We get different options in cars, produce, and fish from half a dozen countries. Most of the civilized world is barely a day's flight away. How many eat out options do you have within 10 miles? Thai, Chinese, Indian, Russian, or good old American?

    Demand growth isn't infinite. Population growth has slowed and that has put a dent on demand growth. But it's still growing a lot. Let's not get tired of it before we even see the supposed edge of the world.

    The dish washer, garage door openers, washer&dryer, lawn mowers, security systems, refrigerators, etc are all productivity increases in the home. People don't complain about them? Those things put entire industries out on the curb. It freed up labor resources that are reused for doing other things like entertainment, hobbies, socializing, or just plain sleeping. Why are we so hung up on this concept in other areas of life and society?

  44. "Seven Save Us All" by l3v1 · · Score: 1

    "[...] now doing a big chunk of the work that high-priced human talent used to do [...] people with little or no coding or software engineering background -- known in the business as "citizen developers" -- can create apps, both for use in-house and for clients."

    And some people are wondering why general sw quality keeps getting lower. I have some popcorn set aside for the days when these citizen developers will "develop" with tools made by other citizen developers and we can all watch their house of cards rattle.

    Here, a good source for getting goosebumps, some are genuinely proud of this feat, e.g.: "QuickBase prides itself in the extent to which business users can build applications all by themselves. "92% of QuickBase citizen developers have no coding background"" (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2016/05/16/citizen-developers-low-code-is-now-enterprise-class/#4a654381ecfb)

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  45. On ColdFusion [Re:and they're abandoned in 10... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Actually, ColdFusion is still being sold, and has 2 or 3 open-source alternatives.

    Its early selling point was easier web-page coding, and compared to what was available at the time, it was.

    Then it became more known for making things simpler for HTML designers to integrate their markup templates with database data. And, it was and still is pretty good at that because you usually don't have to escape in and out of markup versus imperative code. In addition to the built-in CF tags, you can make custom tags for them also.

    It's a tool that fits its niche pretty well.

  46. COBOL was intended for business users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another iteration, but ease of use creates a need for specialists as complexity increases to serve feature growth.

  47. Yawn by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

    Big fucking yawn, they trot this shit out every other year or so. These programs are severely limited in their functionality. Also I am not exactly worried about this impacting my job much, since I am in the space where I would be the one writing the fucking things. Anyone who believes you can hand over coding to someone who does not know how to code with a magical piece of software is an idiot. Someone mentioned further up that they can now do their own analysis using a spreadsheet program instead of asking IT. Well welcome to 2016, you are only a decade or so late to the spreadsheet party. Wait until your data exceeds the limits of your spreadsheet program and your PC craps bricks trying to process it, you'll be trotting off to IT. More than likely IT is who set up your worksheet in the first place, so that you can stop bugging them with inane requests for data for you to "analyze".

    --
    There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
  48. Delphi's FAR from abandoned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: It's always been in TIOBE index's "top 20" since they started it! 2015 (#20) & as high as #6 (2001) & currently #10 iirc http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/ so it's in or near the "TOP 10" no less.

    In fact, it's one of, IF not THE, FASTEST risers there (jumping up ~10 spots this year).

    APK

    P.S.=> I used it to create APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/ BY HAND CUSTOM CODE I WROTE MYSELF (audited by malwarebytes people) & it's done well enough to be hosted AND recommended by the #1 antimalware's people @ malwarebytes' hpHosts website with many 1,000's using it (including /.'ers)... apk

    1. Re:Delphi's FAR from abandoned by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the usage of Lazarus is.

  49. Delphi in TIOBE index top 10/20 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's always been in TIOBE index's "top 20" since they started it! 2015 (#20), #6 (2001) & #10 currently iirc http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/ so it's in or near the "TOP 10" no less hovering there consistently.

    In fact, it's one of, IF not THE, FASTEST risers there (jumping up ~10 spots this year).

    Quake rewritten in Delphi Object Pascal (on games) https://www.google.com/search?q=Delphi+and+Quake&gbv=1&sei=osbGV8STE8bUeNGMh4AC/

    APK

    P.S.=> I created APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/
      & it's done well enough to be hosted + recommended by the #1 antimalware's people @ malwarebytes' hpHosts website w/ many 1,000's using it (including /.'ers)... apk

  50. Re: Demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be part of the 1%.

    Think about that (hint: do the math).

  51. QB + Non-technical users = Clusterf*ck by Suffering+Bastard · · Score: 1

    The entropy that builds up from clueless users tying their business processes into these low-code systems is staggering. I have a client that got setup with QuickBase years ago and has been using it to store data culled from their web site and generate reports based on it, sometimes with an interactive UI to sort and filter. Because nobody who created these QB "apps" has any technical training, including the mastermind who set it all up to begin with, these reports are horrendous monstrosities that over the years have built up into a pile of increasingly useless garbage. Instead of intelligently building an app with a sanely normalized data structure that can simply modify itself every year to report on the requested data set, the client has to create new apps every year, replicating last year's, to view the relevant data. The data structures look like they were cobbled together by, well, someone with no technical training. It's a big morass that their employees spend ridiculous amounts of time dealing with. If they had just hired a developer to build a simple web UI to view, filter, sort, and generate the occasional PDF, all tied into their web database, they could have saved tons of man hours and money.

    But no. They were sold on "Build your own apps! You don't need to pay an expert! You're already all the expert you need!". Such bullshit. But then, I suppose it makes more work for those of us who are called in to build what should have been built in the first place, once the company can no longer function under the weight of empty promises.

    --
    "Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
    - Deep Thought
  52. Delphi, unlike Lazarus, NEVER died by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject (pun intended) - & FreePascal + the Lazarus IDE complete it in reality (a super-close Object Pascal clone & IDE).

    * ... & again, per Delphi's standings in the TIOBE index (started life in 16-bit in 1995, 32 bit 1996-current & 64-bit code iirc, Delphi XE2 onwards)? It's proof of my words, with backing from a REPUTABLE source - & just LIKE Lazarus? It's risen since TIOBE started in 2001 from 20th place (always in top 20) to the TOP 10 (in it or near it now) up to #6!

    (Lastly sometimes /. people tick me off with BOGUS misinformation - this is one such case, & so is "Windows != Secure, Linux = Secure" well - ANDROID, yes a form of Linux since it's surely not iOS or Windows, proves QUITE otherwise being shredded almost daily by exploits - on a platform where "SECURITY BY OBSCURITY" doesn't create an illusion of being secure - it's widely used on smartphones & thus, MOST attacked because of it... so much for that falsehood!)

    APK

    P.S.=> And, there ya go... apk