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Ask Slashdot: Would You Fire Your CEO? (cio.com)

As America celebrates a national holiday honoring organized labor, long-time Slashdot reader itwbennett shares this story about the modern workplace: Three years ago, talent management and human resources company Haufe U.S. created a workplace democracy in which C-level leadership is elected by the employees for a one-year term. In an interview with CIO, Kelly Max, who is currently serving as Haufe's CEO, explains how the company got to this point and what they've learned from the experience.

"If you're going to talk about how your employees 'own' the company, if you're going to tout how they all have a voice, why not go all the way and see what happens? Because why not? You already have people working for and with you who elect you every day, who either agree or disagree with you and follow you, so we wanted to make it very transparent," says Max.

This raises an inevitable question for Slashdot readers: would your own organization work as a democracy? So leave your answers here in the comments. Would your company's employees fire your CEO?

205 comments

  1. Hell No ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They wouldn't give me an excessive golden handshake and parachute!

  2. Yes! by NotAPK · · Score: 1

    ...next question?

    1. Re:Yes! by coofercat · · Score: 1

      How about your immediate manager? His/her manager? You country's president/PM/king/queen/chairman etc? I suspect many of us would say 'yes' to most of those. It's a bit of a stupid question really.

    2. Re:Yes! by mrvan · · Score: 1

      Yes, Yes, NA/Yes/Fuck yeah/depends*/NA

      *) After firing the King I guess we would need a new one, and our queen is kinda hot ;-)

    3. Re:Yes! by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      And all of the chumps he brought with him.

    4. Re:Yes! by hambone142 · · Score: 2

      We would have been better off if we had NO CEO for our company the last 17 years. We've had a succession of worthless "loot and scoot" CEOs that do nothing but destroy the long term viability of the company whilst stuffing their pockets with the company's money.

      Now she's selling off portions of the company to make the books look good.

      Quite a shame. If she were fired though, she'd leave with tens of millions for driving the stock price down.

    5. Re: Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh so you work for Yahoo!, then?

    6. Re:Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like and mostly trust my new manager, am tentatively okay with the new manager above that and like and mostly trust the CEO that manager answers who hired them.

      A few months ago, I answered to the CEO directly. It sucked. The CEO didn't have the time or background to be the manager I needed, regardless of intent or effort.

      I'm pretty talented and capable of a lot of self direction but I need information, resources and goals to feel like I'm really working effectively. I think I can actually manage to run a department like our IT department, but I dislike most of the job. (About the only parts I really like are allocating resources and the paycheck.)

      While the CEO tried to give us what we needed, we had too much conflict in our department for him to reasonably judge what needed done without dedicating a lot more time than he had.

      What really needed to happen was replacing one of our team with someone who could make better decisions. We also needed more structure, someone with final say, preferably someone who had experience doing the things we need to do. That happened, basically replacing one problem employee with an experienced manager who was willing and able to take on the same tasks more effectively.

      Really, just that one change alone made our company run better, but we needed more, we needed someone between that new IT manager and the CEO to manage resource allocation. That was done by hiring a new manager for the accounting department who fixed a lot of problems there and at the same time could spend enough time learning about what was really needed for our IT department to make solid decisions. We needed to spend more in some areas and less (a lot less) in others; a situation we arrived at due to lacking enough management time and experience to sort out where resources were most effective and needed.

      The upshot of it is that a lot of people who wanted things their way in our company were disappointed or even angered but now a lot of problems have been solved.

      We still have quite a few employees who are .... affordable and competent enough to do their jobs, if barely. One could argue that investing in better employees would pay off, but there is also something also to be said for paying just enough for the skills necessary for the job to be done rather than paying more money for more capable staff who need to do the same work. (It's why you don't pay astrophysics professors their usual salary when you need janitorial work. You might get the janitorial work done extremely well, and even get some great input in other areas, but it's hard to be confident that it would really make the company more successful.)

      So we have a CEO who makes decisions that work well for the company. The company is staffed by people I am certain wouldn't keep the CEO but who I am also sure aren't competent to judge whether said CEO is making good or bad decisions.

      I wouldn't fire our CEO, or my manager or the manager my own answers to. While I might fire some of my government representatives (or most of them) at least I get to try. I vote to do that most elections.

  3. This is outstanding work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I was immensely pleased to see the phrase "raises an inevitable question" in the summary, instead of yet another instance of "begs the question." Thank you, Slashdot. -PCP

    1. Re:This is outstanding work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Which begs the question: are people using "begs the question" wrong too often?

    2. Re:This is outstanding work. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Yes, wait, no....what context?

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    3. Re:This is outstanding work. by paiute · · Score: 1

      Only if they are to the manner born.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    4. Re:This is outstanding work. by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      They aren't, of course. Because in actual use, "begs the question" means roughly the same thing as "raises the question".

      English, it's not a dead language.

    5. Re: This is outstanding work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One plus one is three. I said it in English, not in math. So if I get enough people to say it, it's the new right way to say it. English isn't a dead language, kids!

    6. Re:This is outstanding work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please reference vernacular versus standard language structure, specifically with regard to generally accepted usage in public discourse. I hope this helps! -PCP

    7. Re: This is outstanding work. by DarkVader · · Score: 2

      The amusing thing is that while you're attempting sarcasm, you're actually not wrong.

      If enough people start using the word "three" to represent the quantity now known as "two" you would have redefined the word "three" and not done anything at all to math.

      Of course, it won't happen, because it's fucking stupid and people won't actually do that, but yes, language works that way.

      But "begs the question" has an obvious plain language meaning, and it's not related to an obscure meaning about a logical fallacy. It was actually a mistranslation of Latin that associated it with the logical fallacy in the first place, so being pedantic about it is actually to be wrong.

    8. Re:This is outstanding work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the battle between prescriptivist and descriptivist approaches to language, the descriptivist will always prevail in the long run. Try as you might to pedantically react to a now-correct usage of "begs the question" the fact remains that it is now in both common and academic use as an equivalent to "raises the question" and not so much as a logic fallacy.

  4. But.. it already is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One man one vote, all hail me!

  5. Next Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does this story have too much Bennett Hasselton, the mastermind behind the algorithm to end the lines for ice at the Burning Man festival?

  6. I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked under by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

    Cisco, nuff said
    Various startups, none of them are here any more, some of them were outright scams. I wouldn't just fire the CEO, I'd impeach him
    Tivoli was in the process of being ruined by IBM

    A bunch of people taking the industry in directions it doesn't want to go and willing to shit on workers to do it... fire the lot

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Under one condition by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    It will be out of a cannon and the parachute he gets isn't golden but mead of lead.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Under one condition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kill the CEO quickly or slowly, what's it going to be? Make up your mind. Leaded mead sounds deliciously cruel, but you just might get a more aggressive and stupid CEO out of it, at least for a while.

    2. Re:Under one condition by Sneeka2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference whether the parachute is golden or lead if you're going to fire them out of a cannon. The irony factor will be higher with the gold parachute, so I'd go for that.

      --
      Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
    3. Re:Under one condition by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      But it would cost more than he is worth.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Under one condition by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      [...]you just might get a more aggressive and stupid CEO out of it[...]

      That is impossible already.

      But ... well, maybe we're lucky and he is already being leaded by his heirs...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Under one condition by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      I mean, the lead parachute also would.

    6. Re:Under one condition by Niggle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Surely the irony factor would be highest with an iron parachute?

      --
      - Blah blah blah, missing scientist. Blah blah blah, atomic bomb. -
    7. Re:Under one condition by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      As long as their insurance policy is with the company as the beneficiary. If not, lead is less expensive.

    8. Re:Under one condition by bkmoore · · Score: 1

      It will be out of a cannon and the parachute he gets isn't golden but mead of lead.

      A Golden Parachute has a bit of Evel Knievel vibe. I'd go for that if he were wearing a white jump suit and a red, white, and blue cape and motorcycle helmet.

    9. Re:Under one condition by martinfb · · Score: 1

      Ah. Here is an example of allowing poorly educated minds have too much power.

      --


      Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
    10. Re:Under one condition by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's why I want to fire that mind out of a cannon.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by houghi · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    If you have an issue with your partner. It is her/his fault.
    If you have a problem with your partner the second time, it is the fault of the both of you.
    If you have a problem with your partner the third time, it is your fault.

    So if ALL your CEOs are an issue, perhaps the issue is you.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  9. What's the point? by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am not pleased with our CEO. We all aren't. It's a way of life.

    I'd settle for one that understands business strategy well and who knows how to keep the company profitable in the mid and in the long term. But those are few and far between.

    The employee's choice will inevitably be the most popular one. Which most of the time isn't one bit better than the status quo.

    --

    I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    1. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 1, Redundant

      I'm always impressed that software devs and project managers and database architects understand business strategy so well that they only need about 10% of the contextual information about what's going on in the business, and no access to financial statements... and yet can tell that the C-suite has it all wrong. Have you ever thought about being CEO? We would love to have you.

    2. Re:What's the point? by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm always impressed that software devs and project managers and database architects understand business strategy so well that they only need about 10% of the contextual information about what's going on in the business, and no access to financial statements... and yet can tell that the C-suite has it all wrong. Have you ever thought about being CEO? We would love to have you.

      A quote from Machiavelli:

      Nor, I hope, will you think it presumptuous that a man of low, really the lowest, station should set out to discuss the way princes ought to govern their peoples. Just as artists who draw landscapes get down in the valley to study the mountains and go up to the mountains to look down on the valley, so one has to be a prince to get to know the character of a people and a man of the people to know the character of a prince.

      I personally had to learn the hard way what business strategy is. Had (wait I still have) a company fully based on my skills. I realized that I hadn't a clue as to how I could influence the factors around me and so I quit well in time and went permanent to do what I do best. Then I studied business strategy. (Boy was I naive.) The upshot is that I now can argue as to how a technical decision supports our strategic position.

      I now see pretty quickly whether a CEO has a strategy or not. Developing a strategy requires analysis, input from many different disciplines and is a hell of a job to take on. Management by decree has nothing to do with strategy. A strategy is documented reasonably well and enables people within the organisation to naturally contribute to it.

      --

      I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    3. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your quote does not apply. I did not say that you can't discuss strategy unless you're a CEO. I mocked the ridiculous attitude that many technical people have about how CEOs have no idea what they are doing and the software developer has it all figured out. It is the lack of humility I am mocking, plus the ignorance of the very real fact that people lower in the org only have partial visibility on one or two silos of business operations, and have no access to financial statements. There is a reason for financial reporting, and people without this data will make conclusions based on things they see (eg, the premium coffee service being canceled) and generally end up making the wrong conclusions. So why would your first assumption be that the people who have all this information and do have experience with strategy are idiots and have it all wrong?

      That's what I am mocking. And the magnitude of this egotistical silliness is unique to tech.

    4. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm always impressed that software devs and project managers and database architects understand business strategy so well that they only need about 10% of the contextual information about what's going on in the business, and no access to financial statements... and yet can tell that the C-suite has it all wrong. Have you ever thought about being CEO? We would love to have you.

      I'm always suspicious when the minority of decision makers hoards 90% of the "contextual information" for themselves and insists that everyone else trust them. To me, that alone is cause for termination.

    5. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because (especially in small companies) we DO have the same visibility as a CEO on almost ALL silos....we had to build the tools, integrate the data and analyze the data, we support all the software and all the infrastructure.

      No, the only thing I see most "CEO'[s" being good at is having a thirst for power and money. In my own anecdotal world, 90% of the CEO's were CEO's because they where MASSIVELY LUCKY. They either stole a niche idea from some other person they used to work for or they where literately in the right place at the right time.

      I have very rarely met an actual qualified CEO or Owner, the reverse is a bit more the opposite....

    6. Re:What's the point? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I'm always impressed that software devs and project managers and database architects understand business strategy so well that they only need about 10% of the contextual information about what's going on in the business, and no access to financial statements... and yet can tell that the C-suite has it all wrong. Have you ever thought about being CEO? We would love to have you.

      At the CEO level I think nerds might be way off the mark at times like "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." because average people don't think the way we do. When it comes to funny new systems / technology / organization / methods though we're often the ones stuck trying to make things work after the executives have read buzzwords in trade magazines and the salesmen has collected their commissions. I think we very early get an idea who knows what they're doing and not but as a "support" organization we don't get a choice so we waste tons of time on projects that'll flop miserably. I know that I've written a lot of good code that was ultimately utterly futile and that's grounds for resentment.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:What's the point? by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      The main job of the CEO isn't the administrative details of market position or business strategy or finance or whatever. The CEO has people to attend to those things for him. The CEO's main job is leadership.

      And piss-poor uninspiring leadership is pretty damn obvious to those in the rank and file.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    8. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100% wrong, and while we're on the subject please define what you mean by leadership. The entire teaching staff on my MBA would like a word.

    9. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 2

      Some will control information. But it is also a natural result of any organization. If everyone must know everything in order to do their job, you are not organized. That's just not a scalable model beyond a few person company.

    10. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 1

      Yes, indeed. There are many cases of execs getting into details they don't understand, and they should leave that to the experts. And I know exactly what you mean by the buzzword bingo excitement. I could sell the exact same idea to a tech exec, in one situation attaching a cool sounding buzzword (eg microservice architecture) that may or may not actually apply, and in the other situation just playing it straight. The former will be way more effective. I don't fully understand why, but it is.

      A big part of the us vs them silliness here at /. is that you can't make fun of the "us" without everyone thinking you're on the side of "them". It is almost impossible to have a rational discussion on the subject here. You must pick one side and both sides are silly.

    11. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but this is a very immature view. There are very different types of CEOs and different organizations need a different type, perhaps changing as the organization and its market evolves over time. You seem most familiar with the internal organizational CEO, who spends most of his/her time on organizational structure and either inspiring others himself/herself or bringing in people who will. There are also very externally focused CEOs who spend most of their time on sales and partnerships. There are also finance focused CEOs who spend all their time engaging investors and potential investors. And then there is a huge variable of the board. Sometimes there is no board, or the CEO is the only real board member. Sometimes the board is a rubber stamp. Sometimes they are a very strong entity. Sometimes the CEO spends a good bit of his/her time engaging with the board.

      Talk to a private equity person for 15 minutes about CEOs and how he/she finds the right CEO for one of his/her portfolio companies. The topic is much more complicated than you suggest.

    12. Re:What's the point? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I mocked the ridiculous attitude that many technical people have about how CEOs have no idea what they are doing and the software developer has it all figured out.

      It's not only technical people and it's not only CEOs. We can all do somebody's job better than they can. Heck, after a few beers make that everybody's. The giveaway is when the word "just" appears in the perceived job description.

      There is a reason for financial reporting, and people without this data will make conclusions based on things they see (eg, the premium coffee service being canceled) and generally end up making the wrong conclusions.

      If it's a listed company everyone will have the data (perhaps after a delay) since they're obliged to publish it. Then there are those who, ummm, massage the data. And those who do have accurate data sometimes fumble the ball spectacularly.

      So why would your first assumption be that the people who have all this information and do have experience with strategy are idiots and have it all wrong?

      Are you saying Dilbert's not true? Seriously, it's just a popular trope. Are you old enough to remember M*A*S*H? Same thing, except the army instead of a corporation. I'm sure there are examples from other fields too.

      Clearly not all CxOs are utter mongs or there'd be no companies left. But it's also true that some have got there by connections, bullshit, backstabbing and having good hair and have no clue what they're doing. And some do know what they're doing, and it's not in anyone's interest but their own.

      You seem to hero-worship them a bit too much.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 1

      CEOs are people too. And just like you will work with shitty programmers, you will work with shitty CEOs. But the childish PHB chuckling here suggests there is something uniquely incompetent about CEOs. This is a very arrogant view, and is more about envy than reality. Most people who think they should be king are so out of touch with reality that they don't know they're wrong. The famous chart showing confidence graphed against knowledge applies here. When you don't have any idea what it means to be a CEO, you think you could do the job. Once you start realizing you're not ready to do the job, it's a sign of sophistication and understanding, and you're on the path to being ready eventually.

    14. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've worked for really shitty CEO's before. I don't think I'm some pandering weasel. But I have to say, I work for a really bright, charismatic, competent CEO right now. The business has done really well, and he hasn't turned into a complete asshole. Everyone knows he cares about everyone too, but without being another spineless shit that can't do the important things that need doing.

      They're out there. When you find them, appreciate them.

    15. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 1

      I don't know why /. can't listen to criticism of their childish PHB yapping without assuming the criticizer worships PHBs. /. is just wrong on this, and I'm just saying so, because I've been here a long time and it gets old. You can have a few beers and believe you could be president of the US... even if that is "normal" in some sense, it doesn't mean you look like anything but an idiot doing it.

    16. Re:What's the point? by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1

      That's because you apply the same argument that is usually applied by politicians and lawyers, that only the very important people are knowledgeable and wise enough to have a say and the rabble should eat cake. There are a lot of obviously braindead decisions that are never going to work.
      Or maybe's that's us reading too much into it.

    17. Re:What's the point? by mattwarden · · Score: 1

      That's not at all the argument I made. And in fact I objected to the machiavelli quote up the thread for the very reason it implied I am making this argument you suggest, and I clarified that I am not. But the prejudices of /. appear to be too strong

    18. Re:What's the point? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Clearly not all CxOs are utter mongs or there'd be no companies left."

      Think for a moment about what you said.

      Get it?

      Not yet?

      Ok, I'll write down for you: If all (or a vast majority) CxOs were utter mongs, there would be exactly the same companies that there are now. It is if only a reduced percentage of CxOs were utter mongs that they would be crushed away by their rivals but then, we see evidence that there're at least a reduced percentage of CxOs being utter mongs. See now what does that mean?

    19. Re:What's the point? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "The main job of the CEO isn't the administrative details [...] The CEO's main job is leadership."

      And that's the basis for the abhorrent situation of most business. No, sir, it's not all about "leadership" (a word so vacuous that takes any real responsibility out). The E in CEO stands for Executive.

    20. Re:What's the point? by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1

      Alright then, sorry for the confusion.

    21. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'ld eat you for lunch.

  10. to do so, i'd have to be quick by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    on my 2nd CEO this year.

  11. HP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we all vote to fire HP's CEO's. Retrospectively.

    1. Re:HP by Jayfar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can we all vote to fire HP's CEO's. Retrospectively.

      In retrospect, you meant retroactively, I think.

    2. Re:HP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn. I pride myself on writing pretty well, too. That's embracing.

  12. I work in Higher Education by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    I doubt my CEO would notice if you fired him!

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    1. Re:I work in Higher Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/(Higher)/$1 Priced/

      I've proactively modernized your post subject to more realistically reflect the in-demand synergies of today's competitive workforce preparedness market leadership expertise development programs. You're welcome; my invoice is in your inbox. -PCP

  13. Sounds oddly familiar... by sisterk · · Score: 5, Funny

    Arthur: Please, *please*, good people, I am in haste! WHO is your CEO?
    Woman: No one is.
    Arthur: Then who is your board?
    Woman: We don't have a board!
    Arthur: (suprised) What??
    Man: I *told* you! We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune! We're taking
            turns to act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week--
    Arthur: (uninterested) Yes...
    Man: But all the decisions *of* that officer 'ave to be ratified at a
            special bi-weekly meeting--
    Arthur: (perturbed) Yes I see!
    Man: By a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs--
    Arthur: (mad) Be quiet!
    Man: But by a two-thirds majority, in the case of more major--
    Arthur: (very angry) BE QUIET! I *order* you to be quiet!
    Woman: "Order", eh, 'oo does 'e think 'e is?
    Arthur: I am your king!
    Woman: Well I didn't vote for you!

    1. Re:Sounds oddly familiar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was the very first thing I thought of when I read the summary. The next thing that I though of was all those small countries that cycle through their leaders at a rate of about 1/year. I them]n thought about roman assassinations..

  14. Workers controlling the means of production by Mjlner · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is one element of socialism in here. Not all elements, though, so you Americans can start breathing again.

    I'm actually all for the democratic control of companies. If nothing else, stupid voters/employees might end up learning that voting for incompetent or corrupt leaders will actually make you end up without a place to work.

    --
    Lemon curry???
    1. Re:Workers controlling the means of production by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      They might also learn that less apathy and more engagement will lead to leaders that are more in touch with them.

      Quite frankly, there is no reason for either side of The Party in the US to be more voter focused. Most voters (and I'm only talking about those people that can actually be bothered to lift their asses out of their chairs to register as voters, i.e. nearly nobody) don't even have the foggiest clue what their candidates really stand for.

      Try it. Go out, ask someone who he's voting for. Then ask him who is backing his candidate financially. And be surprised what answers, if any, you get.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  15. Benign dictatorship by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The best form of leadership is a Benign/Benovolent dictatorship, this means they are reasonably popular but can get things done and can make the unpopular decisions when needed

    The reasons this works for a company, are the same ones that work for a country... ... but if a company stops being profitable they go bust and disappear, whereas when a country does the equivilent you just get a classical dictator

    Democracy is a terrible system of government, but it is the least bad system in the long term ....

    --
    Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    1. Re:Benign dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another Slashdot wet dream. Fire the CEO and install a "benevolent dictatorship".

      I haven't heard that term since Larry Niven's A World Out of Time, now that I think about it.

    2. Re:Benign dictatorship by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The closest thing the US can get to something like this is the second term of a president.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Benign dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > but if a company stops being profitable they go bust and disappear,

      Yeah, that worked *really well* to get rid of Donald Trump when he bankrupted companies, didn't it? And it did *fabulous* job of getting Darl Mcbride and his fabulous furry fraudulent lawsuits out of everybody's hair, didn't it?

    4. Re:Benign dictatorship by inking · · Score: 1

      I am not entirely sure where you get getting the idea that benevolent dictators have to be even remotely popular. Popularity is a function of how good a leader is at appealing to the populace, not of the importance of the interests of the state to the said dictator. South Korea's Park Chung-hee is a benevolent dictator par excellence, yet a very divisive figure even during his own time.

      Furthermore, this does not work for corporations and they are not benevolent dictatorships, because CEOs are already elected by the board of directors, who are again elected by the shareholders. It is already a democratic process, except for the fact that the electorate are the shareholders rather than employees. The companies that are pursuing the whole "you own the company" culture are already giving employees suffrage by offering them stock options, thus making the employees also the shareholders and thus eligible to elect directors.

    5. Re:Benign dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But since those with more shares have greater control over the corporation, does that not make it a plutocracy, rather than a democracy?

    6. Re:Benign dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best form of leadership is a Benign/Benovolent dictatorship,

      That is like saying "the best form of leadership is Good Leadership." The distinguishing aspect is "Benign/Benevolent." What do those words mean, in a way precise enough not to be circular? The understood meaning seems to be "the best", ie. circular. It's circular again because there's nothing about the structure of dictatorship that promotes the aim of "Benign/Benevolent," whatever it does mean. We're talking about structure---how to achieve results---not about what the results are after we have them. If your suggestion is unactionable except in hindsight, it's unactionable always, and meaningless.

      this means they are reasonably popular but can get things done and can make the unpopular decisions when needed

      "Reasonably popular but can make unpopular decisions when needed" describes an elected leader on a fixed term.

    7. Re:Benign dictatorship by hey! · · Score: 1

      This is a very simplistic notion for several reasons. First, a company doesn't just have to make a profit to be successful; it has to make at least a normal profit. That means it's very easy for an unsuccessful company to survive indefinitely if proprietors imagine a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

      What's more a company in a good cash position can survive for years off their past successes while seldom turning any profit. Sears was once the sole national retailer in the United States, and it dominated the market in a way that even Walmart has never came close to. The decline of Sears took decades, and the reason can be seen across the country in giant yellow brick buildings that dot the landscape. If you are old enough to remember you'll know used to be Sears stores and regional distribution centers. Sears's sunk costs in infrastructure allowed it to spend less cash than other retailers getting goods to consumers. It should have made money forever. But it didn't, because management tried to use their cash cow to leverage their way into unrelated businesses. They let their stores became dirty, dingy places with unattractive merchandise. I remember going to Sears with my mom: all the white people looked greenish under the cheap fluorescent lighting and everything felt grimy. Sears lost money year after year, yet management survived on promises of jam tomorrow.

      The theory that the Invisible Hand's ban hammer will come down right away on incompetent companies runs afoul of the fact that the hammer is actually wielded by irrational human beings. Like all human emotions greed is good in limited quantities, but bad in excess because emotions are irrational. Greedy people will willingly break their own rice bowls because they aren't thinking objectively.

      Running a company is an exercise in applied social sciences. There probably isn't one way of doing well, nor is one way of doing it necessarily the best way through the entire life of a corporation. Had the employees in Sears store held a veto over management, Sears stores wouldn't have turned into uncompetitive shit holes in the 60s and 70s. Had the employees in HP had a veto on management, it'd still be the company it was in the 60s - early 90s. But on the other hand you wouldn't have successful conglomerates like GE or Unilever either.

      I think there's room in the world for different corporate governance models. If everyone has to do it the same way, then "innovation" is just an empty slogan.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:Benign dictatorship by inking · · Score: 1

      A benevolent dictatorship is an established term for a dictatorship where the dictator pursues national interests rather than his own, as opposed to a dictator who pursues his own interests over those of national ones. There are a million ways to weasel about how this definition is bad—in which case you would be late, since Nietzsche has already raised this criticism of definitions in general—but it is one all development economists are very familiar with and nothing to sneer at. A go-to example is South Korea under Park Chung-hee, who is generally considered to be a benevolent dictator and has considerably contributed to the nation's development through his macroeconomic policies, versus his successor Chun Doo-hwan, who is best known for his impressive ability to receive bribes through establishment of foundations. You are wrong about the term having any relation to success of the dictator and JasterBobaMereel is equally wrong about there being any relation to his popularity.

    9. Re:Benign dictatorship by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Another Slashdot wet dream. Fire the CEO and install a "benevolent dictatorship".

      Why? JasterBobaMereel is right, is the best system of government. The only problem with the idea is to find someone for the job with the qualifications "competent" and "benevolent", is a bit difficult. So in the absence of a person almost impossible to exist we have to be content with democracy.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    10. Re:Benign dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That dillhole is still a CEO.

      http://www.manta.com/c/mb4y2hx...

    11. Re: Benign dictatorship by jackspenn · · Score: 0

      A true Republic is the "least bad" type of government.

      A true democracy is as violent and brutal as it is short lived.

      In a Republic laws protect minority interests, minority rights and minority groups. The smallest minority group that is protected being the individual.

      In a Democracy the majority rules. Within true Democracy there is nothing minorities can do about it and there is nothing to protect minority interests.

      If you don't understand the differences, you're not alone. The US President often refers to the US Republican form of government as a Democracy.

      --
      Respect the Constitution
    12. Re:Benign dictatorship by tigersha · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the talents needed to acquire power is different from the talents needed to exercise power.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    13. Re:Benign dictatorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Benign/Benovolent dictatorship

      No such thing in corporatist economics. The benign/benevolent CEOs will go bankrupt because they didn't compete "optimally" by screwing over everyone they can, notably employees and customers.

    14. Re: Benign dictatorship by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1

      I know that you're raised in the American educational system where Republic is erroneously equated with a representative democracy, but please educate yourself a bit out of that little box that they put you in. Personally, I live in a constitutional monarchy, and all the stuff you're saying about a 'Republic' holds for my country. My country has a king, but he's been neutered. I share this particular form of government with the UK, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium and Spain, among others. These all are representative democracies, and they protect minority interest, rights and groups through a strong parliamentary tradition. Please explain how these countries are Republics, and the Republic of China is not.

      So your president is right, you live in a democracy. A representative democracy with an elected head of state.

  16. Why just the CEO? by houghi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Would you fire your cow orker? Would you fire the coffee lady or the person sitting at the reception?

    To me it depends. Are they doing their job? If so, then no. If they don't, then yes. Not really that hard. What often is the problem is twofold.
    1) The amount they get (including bonuses) is not realistic compared to the work they do compared to others. Should they earn more? Sure. Should they earn 200 times more? No.
    2) It is often unclear of what his job is. Most of the time it is pretty simple, make as much money for the company as possible. Sometimes it is something else, like "increase the market position to ..." or "increase the market value of the shares".
    And that might be something that is not correctly interpreted. Is it possible to achieve these goals and are they realistic or is he achieving them, then no, he should not be fired. What might need to be done is to change the goals.

    And there lies the issue. Are the goals something we can agree with or are those the issue? Perhaps we do not want to increase the market value of the company for a buyout. We want to keep as much people employed as possible. Or we want to give better service to customers instead of lowering prices to increase the market share.
    And if we are able to change the goals, is he still the best choice for these or not? If not, fire him. If so, all the better.

    Just look at him as any employee and treat him the same. I get fired if I don't do my job and so should he, but first ask what that job actually is.

    I can be the world best perl programmer and am hired to write perl, but if the rest works with c# what I do is meaningless and a waste of money.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Why just the CEO? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You answered your own question: Because the CEO cannot even possibly earn his keep. It is simply and plainly impossible.

      Everyone working for a company has to generate as much revenue as he costs, at the very least. Simply by the rules of the market. If you do not generate as much money as you cost, your company is better off without you. Of course not everyone is in sales or production, but the service you provide to the company has to be on par with the amount of money you cost your company.

      No CEO can possibly provide the benefit that he costs me. Not physically, humanely possible.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Why just the CEO? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Everyone working for a company has to generate as much revenue as he costs, at the very least.

      Really? So, if you have a large office building that employs janitorial staff - those maintenance people should actually be billable and generate more than they cost? How does that work, exactly? How about the security guards - should they be focused on somehow being billable instead of on securing the building and its occupants?

      Lots of positions are pure cost at the individual level - those people are necessary in order to help the billable/sales people generate the revenue that pays everyone in the company.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Why just the CEO? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Informative

      Security and its cost is part of risk assessment. And yes, there is a point where security costs more than it's worth. If the possible damage that could happen is 1000 bucks a month and it costs me more than 1000 bucks a month to secure it, then even certain impact realization would not warrant the security expense because it is actually cheaper to simply accept the damage.

      Security needn't generate revenue but it has to lower the assessed risk by as much as it costs. Simple as that. This is, by the way, another reason why the whole TSA security theater is completely bogus.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Why just the CEO? by Alomex · · Score: 1

      1) The amount they get (including bonuses) is not realistic compared to the work they do compared to others. Should they earn more? Sure. Should they earn 200 times more? No.

      Exactly. Unless you are a wizard CEO (think Jobs or Warren Buffet) a CEO is unlikely to be worth more than 10x a senior engineer. That still leaves you with a salary in the $1-2M range, which is pretty decent.

      I've met many smart people in my life: politicians, scientists, artists and CEOs. The only CEO who blew me away with his clarity of vision and thought was Nolan Bushnell. If you have a talent like that I can see them getting up to 100x a senior engineer, but those are the exception, not the rule.

    5. Re:Why just the CEO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $1 to $2 million is a lot more than 10x a senior engineer in the UK...

    6. Re:Why just the CEO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it depends on your company. I know at least in the US (and not in silicon valley/NYC so fairly normal or average compensation) 100k is pretty normal for a senior engineer at least in software. Maybe companies in the UK have a different ranking structure? Generally someone in the US at senior level has 7-8+ years experience and can hit the 100k mark around 10 years

    7. Re:Why just the CEO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the company needs someone to write Perl and the rest only write C# you're onto a good thing, as long as you enjoy Perl.

    8. Re:Why just the CEO? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      So, how do you address the overhead spent on people like janitors? I'm guessing you'll say that the cost of having nobody clean the toilets or of making every engineer, sales rep, and IT person haul their own trash out is that you'd quickly lose most of your employees. But that's also true of everyone who processes payroll, handles A/R, A/P and the rest. All necessary jobs or the place grinds to a halt - but there's no billable numbers to look at there, and no "if we don't have accounting staff, the costs would be too high..." because the cost would be no company left alive.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    9. Re:Why just the CEO? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      First of all there are laws that govern how sanitary certain areas have to be. Then emptying trash cans and cleaning the room takes time, something that is better done by someone who is cheap rather than the expensive head accountant. Not to mention efficiency, since one person emptying trash cans into his or her waste trolley beats every single person in the office taking his trash can out to the paper container. And let's not forget goodwill in case a client shows up and sees a trashy office and a dirty lavatory.

      You can actually assess the value of every single person working in an office. From the CEO to the janitor, you can assess the value of the job done and compare it to the expense.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Why just the CEO? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      You're not addressing the fact that such positions don't generate revenue to cover their costs, as you said that every employee must.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    11. Re:Why just the CEO? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      They have to generate more value for a company than they cost is what I said. I hope I need not explain the difference.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Why just the CEO? by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's just the thing though. If you can't keep an engineering staff if the toilets are all clogged and overflowing, then the janitorial staff is clearly a contributor to engineering. Meanwhile, you can't sell product is you can't design a product, so the engineers are clearly a contributor to sales.

      Of course, sales people are also a cost center. Ideally, customers would just beat a path to your door and enter their own orders, but since that doesn't happen, you have to burn money on sales staff.

      Just because it's too complex for you to compute doesn't make it untrue.

  17. Requires a knowledge of the job by petes_PoV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    C-level leadership is elected by the employees for a one-year term.

    So how to "ordinary" employees (even ones from a recruitment company) know what qualities to look for in a C-level? Do they understand the legal obligations that C-levelship brings. Do they know what is possible or within scope for a particular "C"?

    Or do they simply engage in a beauty contest and vote for people they like, or who make the biggest promises: "vote for me as your CEO and I'll give everyone a pay rise and annual bonus"

    It all sounds lovely and group-huggy. But does it actually make the company more successful or a better place to work?

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It would cause internal division and you'd wind up with an approximation of what is going on in the US Presidential election right now.

      Besides, under the current system, while you cannot fire your CEO, you *can* fire your company and go work elsewhere, even for the competition.

    2. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When democracy was spreading across Europe, that argument wssas used: the peasants don't know how to rule. Maybe. But would you rather live in Europe in 1750 or Europe in 2016? It turns out the peasants have done alright.

    3. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How many peasants have been elected rulers in the past 250 years vs. elected nobles and scholars?

    4. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Well, looking down the last couple US presidents, "scholars" isn't quite the word that I'd come up with...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

      It's the equivalent of electing a student body president. Nothing more than a popularity contest.

    6. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by inking · · Score: 2

      Coincidentally, the Industrial Revolution occurs in the same time and is entirely oligarchic in nature. You may be interested in reading some works by Robert C. Allen, in particular the very concise Global Economic History: A Very Short Introduction. There are a number of hypothesis for Europe's industrial success and subsequent increased living standards, from Braudel's coal and colonies to Black Death changing the institutional structure of Europe to be more capitalistic to Europe always being richer but having less food due to lack of rice. However, I am afraid that I am yet to hear a persuasive argument for peasants' suffrage being one of them. In fact, if we look at late comers in East Asia, you would get the very opposite impression with unelected elite bureaucrats largely detached from the political process running the country much more successfully than their democratised counterparts with democracy only coming as a latter bonus and in a form factually very different from liberté, égalité, fraternité.

    7. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Or do they simply engage in a beauty contest and vote for people they like, or who make the biggest promises: "vote for me as your CEO and I'll give everyone a pay rise and annual bonus"

      It all sounds lovely and group-huggy. But does it actually make the company more successful or a better place to work?

      That's how we select the CEO for our country. And it's usually easier to switch employers than it is to switch homelands.

      Regardless, the way we select CEOs now isn't gaining a lot of points for prosperity for many companies, much less the countries that grant them their corporate charters. In fact, the primary people who have been prospering lately have been the CEOs themselves, whether their companies succeed or fail.

      The original expectations that sovereign nations had for chartering incorporated businesses was based on the idea that the shareholders would be fairly directly involved. That they would be in it for the long haul, not just for the next quarter or day-trade tick. And that the more involvement that they had financially, the more right they had to make the critical decisions. Thus, corporations are not democratic - instead of one person (employee or otherwise) one vote, it's one share one vote.

      We lost the personal stakes long ago for the most part. These days, CEOs are mostly only answerable to a small group for a short time, and just to add insult to injury, becoming a CEO often brings with it actual shares or options that can be manipulated by the CEO for personal profit regardless of the long-term effect on the corporation, its employees or its customers.

      So I suppose that a beauty contest might not be any worse than what we've cooked up on our own.

    8. Re: Requires a knowledge of the job by jackspenn · · Score: 1

      Socialism and Feudalism are the same thing, with the exception that Feudalism has king/queen/lords while Socialism has community organizers.

      I find Europeans have managed to brainwash themselves to the point that while they managed to rid themselves of their monarchs. They are still not free. They are still slaves. They are still extremely limited. Socialism punishes gifted and hard working people, and socialism retards evolution. Over time socialist countries will become ever more broke, ever more lazy and they will continually devalue individual life. *

      * But WTF do I know, I'm just a kid who thinks for himself, moved to Texas as fast as I could, enjoys the ranch I bought, the horses I bought, the semi-automatic guns I LEGALLY own, the non-semi-automatic guns I LEGALLY own, running my own business and raising my four kids.

      --
      Respect the Constitution
    9. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You act like it's impossible for adults to learn something. Workers don't need to be stupid babies. They can learn things and think for themselves. They can learn about what a CEO does and act accordingly.

    10. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "So how to "ordinary" employees (even ones from a recruitment company) know what qualities to look for in a C-level? Do they understand the legal obligations that C-levelship brings."

      Probably not. But looking at the aftermath of last economical crash, it seems neither do the judicial system up to the supreme court.

    11. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by tigersha · · Score: 1

      While I am no fan of the man, have no illusion about George W. He is more of a scholar than people give him credit for. The man has a reputation for being very well read.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    12. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by tigersha · · Score: 1

      The Guardian had an article about the roles of the civil service vs the government today:

      http://www.theguardian.com/pol...

      Makes for quite interesting reading.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    13. Re:Requires a knowledge of the job by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      He was apparently so intelligent that he could fool an entire planet into thinking he wasn't...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  18. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Do you have any evidence for all that, or does it just look cool on a poster or t-shirt?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  19. C-level is at lowest in decades by jabberw0k · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why would any company want C leadership these days, when C Programming Language's Tiobe Rating [has] Drop[ped] To Lowest Level in decades? Surely some Python or even a modern Perl leadership would be far superior.

    1. Re:C-level is at lowest in decades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because Java leadership sucks. And Ruby is a bitch

    2. Re:C-level is at lowest in decades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, ruby is a feminist who only got there because she has a cunt.

    3. Re:C-level is at lowest in decades by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Lovely bitch though.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
  20. I'd throw her on the barbie I would I tells ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then I'd eat her up I would I tells ya.

  21. Can't see how it works... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...because employees don't all see all aspects of the company to make educated "votes"

    Can your team vote out the slow guy on your team of 10? If not, why not? Same thing. Though in this case at least you have all the info.

    1. Re:Can't see how it works... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So... democracy is a crappy system because voters don't see all aspects of the country to make educated votes, right?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Can't see how it works... by silanea · · Score: 1

      ...because employees don't all see all aspects of the company to make educated "votes" [...]

      You say that as if C*Os were any different. They are so far removed from the actual work being done that by the point they see the smoke, half the town is already in ashes. Look at the paths especially CEOs of large corporations have gone through: Most of them switch industries and company types like they change their socks. From manufacturing to banking to tech to pharma... Even if they saw everything, how competent are they to actually make a decision? Are they just looking at numbers and choosing the higher one because it looks prettier? With many, that is the impression I got.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    3. Re:Can't see how it works... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if we can't evaluate every aspect of every candidate, one thing is for sure:

      If my company voted for CEO we would get someone with a degree in engineering, unlike the bean counter we have now.

    4. Re:Can't see how it works... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the more dramatic examples of that is Apple in the '80s. They hired John Sculley, whose experience was selling sweet fizzy water. He very nearly destroyed a computer company, because he had no idea what the fuck he was doing.

    5. Re:Can't see how it works... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sculley saved the company because the Apple employees had no clue what they were doing.

  22. Yeehaaaa! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump > Palin .. but not by much.

  23. NO! MY CEO IS AWESOME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's the GREATEST guy in the whole world. He's smart, witty, intelligent, great with customers, doesn't make very much money, always gives out vacations, always takes the blame, never changes things without reason, doesn't have a golden parachute, and actually gets his hands dirty. If I were female, I'd totally fuck him. My CEO is awesome!

    Did I mention he's the only employee in the company?

    1. Re:NO! MY CEO IS AWESOME by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I was honestly expecting "Did I mention he's reading what we're doing online?"

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  24. Could possibly work with leadership reorg by swb · · Score: 1

    Traditional corporations have a board (which is elected by shareholders, at least nominally) and then executive officers who are actually supposed to run the company. I don't know anything about business organization theory, but I'm guessing that in some pure sense corporations are already technically structured around the idea of some kind of democratic management.

    I think the problem is that in so many corporations, the board is relatively weak and not very involved in much oversight. They also tend to have at least one executive officer on the board, which IMHO corrupts the oversight role of the board. There's also the question of board member elections -- are they a real thing, or is their election some kind of structured rubber stamp where they get elected by default? The end result is they are marionettes controlled by the executive officers, barring some big-name investor buying a significant percentage of the stock and demanding seats on the board.

    I think a more democratic management of corporations would be possible, but I think it would take a careful structuring. You would still need some level of technical leadership, people who can intelligently manage the business of the company where technical information makes sense -- finance, taxation, HR, and these people should probably be hired the usual way.

    But instead of these people making all of the decisions, I think there's probably room for an elected, board-like entity that they report to that could be elected by the entire workforce who could set some kind of affirmative company policies, directions, and so on, as well as review and overrule senior management decisions. Some kind of hybrid between what a board is supposed to be doing now, but with more involvement in day-day operations. It would also be critical that this oversight board be elected *from* the rank and file *by* the rank and file, with membership apportioned among the business units. Senior management would be exempt from membership or voting and with risk of termination for any interference with board elections or decisions.

    I don't know what it would do for the company's business success, but it would probably result in a company that's better to work for, with saner executive pay and saner general management policies.

    1. Re:Could possibly work with leadership reorg by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      If you look at the stories of any of the more infamous CEOs, they usually had the boards wrapped around their fingers. The whole shareholder voting thing is also pretty broken. Look at a disney vote to remove their leadership. Something like 99% voted to remove, ..... and nothing changed.

      Then you get these family companies that go public, with the families owning 51% of the voting shares. You can have different class shares with one class having 100 votes per share an another 1 vote per share. Thus the family could own a few percent of the company and still dominate the voting.

  25. Our organization as a democracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US is about to choose between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump to run the most influential country on the planet. At this point a dictator CEO is looking pretty good.

  26. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by mrvan · · Score: 1

    You don't have a very high standard for t-shirts do you? :)

  27. Companies have boards by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 1

    Yes. Every Corporation has a board, as a matter of state law pretty much everywhere. The board has a legal obligation to use reasonable business judgment, which gives them a lot of leeway. (Basically because the courts don't want to be involved in running a corporation).

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:Companies have boards by swb · · Score: 1

      But they don't work. They've got executive officers who are supposed to be overseen by the board sitting on them, they're loaded with fluffy famous people and back-scratching officers from other companies. Their elections are farces, controlled by ridiculous bylaws that make Soviet elections look like legitimate democracy. On paper they represent shareholders, in reality they are marionettes of management.

      And at the end of it, how often are they actually engaged in the company's business? Close enough to never to be indistinguishable from never.

  28. Well duh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My CEO is Meg Whitman, so of course I'd fire her. I'd then fire the every incompetent member of the HPE board. I'd also claw back any pay they've received for the year and give it to the thousands of US IT workers that have been laid off due to their negligence.

  29. No. by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    But I'd definitely fire my CIO.

    1. Re: No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      + 1,000,000,000 to this.

      Our CEO is great at what he does. Our VIP is a bald, jack booted, thug with a live affair for off shoring jobs. His operational efficiency efforts have moved us from taking 2 months to deploy a system and made it 3 months to get to a point where funding can be approved. Another 3 to get it built and maybe into prod.

      I'd fire him and the three levels of management he brought with him without hesitation.

  30. Capitalism is meritocratic by cloud.pt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's no way around it - be it by luck, opportunism, IQ, bank account, family, networking, entrepreneurship, share ownership, influence or the most relevant of all: charisma - leadership these days is acquired through different forms of merit, never democratically. A suffrage for C-level anything is just gonna place more emphases on the least "true-merit" traits of them all.

    This is mostly what happens nowadays on evolved democracies, and why they are, ultimately, in decadence. Think about it like so: there's this guy called Trump with no real quality other than bringing a lot of empathy to the table, because a lot of voters are being driven by his isolationism rhetoric which never fails to catch a big chunk of an ever-increasing patriot country's vote. And in my opinion, he's gonna win because the other candidate has a near-50% handicap, from the long-established, yet to be solved gender problem, even more relevant than the previous incumbent's racial minority trait, for the simple fact America has embraced different races a lot more than it has suppressed gender inequality.

    This is gonna be equivalent in a company, to a different extent but to similar outcomes - the bottom-of-the-pyramid voters are gonna side with whoever seems to bring more to their table, and candidates just need to find the rhetoric that identifies them as such. If this is, like american politics, mixed up with a candidate-picking system that pre-establishes a small pool of "desirables", no single candidate will truthfully bring anything to the bottom tiers. Winning will be a matter of the best liar. I would likely fire my current CEO if I had one (don't work in that kind of corporate structure) , but the question remains: would we be allowed to pick something better than the status quo?

    1. Re:Capitalism is meritocratic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a nice load of crap you're selling.

      It's nepotism, not meritocracy.

    2. Re:Capitalism is meritocratic by mschuyler · · Score: 2

      That's a nice load of crap you're selling.

      We voted for the last president because he was Black (sort of). We're voting for Hillary because she is a woman (sort of). Those are stupid reasons. Neither of these jerks has a "handicap." They have an advantage because of traits that don't qualify them for anything.

      --
      How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
    3. Re:Capitalism is meritocratic by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

      Well I guess logic is in disuse. "Those are stupid reasons", "Neither of these jerks has a handicap", "it's nepotiszzzszszxzxzsxzxszm" (I bet you were aching to use that word you memorized from whatever media you consumed last week, yet you don't know the slightest thing about it's meaning, and ended up using it catastrophically wrong. Nepotism is a part of the problem - which I actually mentioned as a merit in "family" - not the entire thing. Unless you're Jerry Fletcher and your life is a conspiracy).

      The cherry on top though is you basically started by discrediting me, then went on to conclude exactly the same I did, which makes you a hypocrite, although a dumb one because I'm not sure you actually didn't figure it out yourself:

      A[n election] is just gonna place more emphases on the least "true-merit" traits of them all.

      ...which is basically what you say:

      They have an advantage because of traits that don't qualify them for anything.

      ...both sentences meaning:

      being able for the seat means nothing; people vote randomly

      But the worst part is you came here and made this about the US presidential election, which I used as a legit comparison. Yet I knew beforehand I would attract useless attention from your likes. And I never said you voted for Obama because he was black. You came from 8 years of the worst republican experience since the other Gulf War (and other Bush), you would vote a democrat if he was of Alien ancestry. Fortunately for you Obama turned out to be well above average in times an average president is a blessing (including his very passive, as it should be, external policy).

  31. Burning garbage without a permit is a crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So no, I wouldn't fire my CEO until the proper permits have been secured.

    1. Re: Burning garbage without a permit is a crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You Sir made my day.

  32. can we include the CTO also? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    please please please

  33. No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not if he fires me first.

  34. Certainly not! by ColonelClaw · · Score: 1

    I'm 2nd in command at my company, so if the CEO lost his job, I'd be in charge. And I can tell you for a fact that I would be bloody useless!

  35. No by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

    My CEO is a she, and she's one of the most brilliant and intelligent person I know.
    I'd fire the whole middle management staff, though.

    1. Re:No by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So she's either not that brilliant or new enough that she didn't get around to fire the duds and replace them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:No by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      You might have a point. She's brilliant enough that she's always travelling around the world for conferences, presentations or workshops, so she's doesn't spend enough time here to notice how many morons we have.

  36. It's Called Quitting by Rob+Riggs · · Score: 1

    We've all done it at some point -- fired our boss by leaving for another firm.

    --
    the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
  37. Shades of the novel The Business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The late Iain Banks wrote about characters in a large business that was run democratically, but didn't go into much detail about the workings of the democratic process. It was little more than mentioning that they voted for their bosses.

  38. Not a democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This brings to mind that phrase from Crimson Tide, when Capt. Ramsey (Gene Hackman) tells Commander Hunter (Denzel Washington): "We're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it.".

  39. Can we fire Slashdot's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For allowing off topic clickbait articles like this.

  40. I Come to Work by KermodeBear · · Score: 2

    I come to work in order to work and make money. I don't come to work to play politics all day.

    --
    Love sees no species.
    1. Re:I Come to Work by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I don't come to work to play politics all day.

      This. When I see the crap that upper management call "work" they can keep their paycheck. I was groomed into a leading role and basically given the option of management of technical with the caveat openly explained to me that a technical leadership role comes with a ceiling of influence and income. I chose technical with the justification that there's a limit to how many times I can write the word synergy without mocking it before jump off the side of a reactor vessel.

    2. Re:I Come to Work by antdude · · Score: 1

      Playing politics is work. ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    3. Re:I Come to Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      now there, is a stellar comment. but you know, people are all about politics.

    4. Re:I Come to Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't come to work to play politics all day.

      "Those who don't think they play politics, only play politics very poorly." -David Drake

  41. Don't work for a public company by mykepredko · · Score: 2

    The biggest problem out there is the next quarter mindset of public companies. Today, public companies are too focused on the end of the quarter and maximizing shareholder returns which means that the employees and customers be damned if they can be squeezed to get another point of EBITDA over the next three months.

    The best company I ever worked for was a wholly owned subsidiary in which the CEO/top manager and senior managers worked as a very effective team in keeping employees and customers happy - I should point out that we had a very flat organizational structure which kept things running very well.

    We then got bought out and the investors put us up for an IPO. As founders, there was some money thrown our way, BUT the CEO's total focus was turned to what the investor's wanted which meant he had almost no time to devote to the day to day running of the business (which he was excellent at) and, to fill the void, more new executives, who didn't know the business, were brought in along with more than doubling the number of management levels. After a couple of years, the CEO, decided to call in rich and we had a series of new CEOs (and their hangers on) that proceeded to destroy the company.

    All the work we had done creating a business that was destroyed in about three years and what made us special was lost along with more than two thirds of the employees with what was once a happy, proud workplace becoming a place for temporary employment.

    So, find a place that is wholly owned, doesn't worry about it's stock price, with a small, competent management team.

  42. For a solid case where they should... by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look to Sears. The CEO there is Eddie Lampert, who used various financial manoeuvres to first take over KMart and then Sears. He has zero retail experience. He is known for only attending board meetings via videoconferencing (where he yells at board members). He has passed down illogical orders to the stores that have turned the skeleton crews into Lord of the Flies.

    So why haven't they fired him? They can't. His moves placed him as majority share holder as well as CEO. The board has no way to fire him. He is in a can't-lose situation now as with very few exceptions Sears owns the land their stores sit on (even in malls) so once he drives the ship under he has millions of dollars of real estate that he can sell.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:For a solid case where they should... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sad. Sears was Amazon before Amazon's founders' parents were born.

    2. Re:For a solid case where they should... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sears was already spiraling the drain before Lampert, that's why he was able to acquire it. Now he's pumping his hedge fund money into it just for his own ego. Everyone thinks he should have liquidated the company years ago.

    3. Re:For a solid case where they should... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why haven't they fired him? They can't. His moves placed him as majority share holder as well as CEO. The board has no way to fire him.

      Corporate governance / CEO selection is not determined by how many shares a given stockholder holds. It is certainly influenced by it but not directly determined by it. Yes - the board can fire the CEO but they won't.

      Why? Sears has one of the worst Board of Directors I've seen in awhile - all financial oriented directors on the board. Missing non-profit, education, tech, industrial and arts/culture board members. The financial reports of Sears over the past five years look horrible so even with said financial-oriented directors there should have been SOME improvement. So I'm in agreement with the remainder of your post as plausible - its difficult for a situation like this to transpire for as long as it has without some ulterior motive in mind.

  43. Fire him? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd put him and all CEOs I've worked for in front of a firing squad.

    Captcha: interned

  44. No ! by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 0

    I am the CEO

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  45. Democracy Is A Disaster by alternative_right · · Score: 1

    The problem with democracy is that it emphasizes appearance over reality, and that appearance is interpreted by people with both no ability to make decisions of that level, and no skin in the game. They vote, the consequences are socialized and externalities passed on to the group, so either way the consequences to the voters are minor.

    If anything is wrong with leadership now, it is that the average company is too democratic in that appearance matters far more than reality/results at every level. They are choosing CEOs who can manage public relations disasters, not keep a company stable or drive it to new heights.

    As much as I hate Apple, Steve Jobs was a great CEO in that he always forced improvement of the product where possible. He had his missteps, but he was able to as a fascist do things that a democrat could not.

  46. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by sunking2 · · Score: 2

    Believe it was Sarah Silverman who said along the lines of, 'if all you've ever had are bitchy roomates, you're the bitch'

  47. It would save money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Google were to elect a CEO to replace Sundar Pichai,
      - they would end up with someone interested in campaigning for the job, so it wouldn't have to cost $200,000,000/yr.
      - they would distract employees with the election, which may be a significant cost.
      - they would change CEOs more frequently, which can cause burnout and hurt morale and retention: decades of people's life work on proprietary software gets tossed in the bin because "strategy".
      - they may end up with someone the employees rightfully trusted, who therefore might not have the skill necessary to contain the sociopath-infested management chain.

    I think the main problem in most large companies is the last bullet. Election could help with that, but the transition between the elected and unelected portion of the management tree might become the danger zone.

  48. Oh my yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With Napalm. I'll even bring marshmallows and crackers for the team, to make smores on his burning corpse.

  49. No, surprisingly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smaller company, though. We'd keep the president, CFO, and probably the VP of Engineering (perhaps sketchy with those outside the office). I guarantee we'd fire the VP of Manufacturing (at least 3 years ago), VP of Field Service (probably never would have met him), VP of Projects (not a single person that has worked with the guy, even in a very marginal way, feels he should be in that position), and the VP of R&D. How we ended up with so many in a company of 80 people is beyond me.

    Our CFO is leaving and I suspect that, had she not been hired, our Controller would have been promoted. I'd still expect that, as our Controller is quite skilled and respected.

    Thinking back, my former employers would have fared much more poorly. My last employer had nobody with a VP or higher title that was actually competent, which ultimately resulted in them going out of business within a year of my jumping ship (a bunch of top talent followed suit).

  50. It's called a co-op by eggstasy · · Score: 1

    That sort of thing already exists. Not sure if co-op or association is the right term in english, but man, wtf, why do people reinvent the wheel all the time, there is already a legal model for electing and firing your leadership.

  51. Sure they're worth it by Solandri · · Score: 1

    Median CEO pay is only $160k. That includes bonuses, stock options, etc.

    You're probably thinking of the ridiculous amounts made by CEOs of the biggest companies (Fortune 500, S&P 500, etc). Yes they're mostly not worth it. But they only make up less than 0.02% of all businesses with employees (roughly 6 million). And only about 5% of all businesses employing 500+ people.

    The media wants to make a story out of the poor-rich pay gap, so they cherry-pick the data which best supports their argument. While that data is relevant to the subset it's picked from, don't make the mistake of extrapolating it to the other 99.98%. Or even the other 95%. That's stereotyping and prejudice. Some people get all upset when you take a trait present in only 5% of, say, African-Americans and extrapolate it to the entire population. But are more than happy do the exact same thing when it comes to something like CEOs. You know that thing about CEOs being psychopaths? It's only 4% of them (vs 1% for the general population). Yet some people gleefully use that stat to justify their insults, prejudice, and bigotry against the other 96%.

    1. Re:Sure they're worth it by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      Those numbers are clearly bogus, they show top CEO pay being $423k.

    2. Re:Sure they're worth it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I know the story about the psychopaths, and that the amount is actually a lot higher the higher you climb the income ladder. Past the million, it gets scary.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Sure they're worth it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Those numbers are clearly bogus, they show top CEO pay being $423k.

      Wouldn't surprise me at all. CEO's make their earnings via stock options and other deals, not via salary. Most figures discussed for CEOs include the total package. e.g. Larry Page's pay is $1. He still makes $70m / year in stock options, bonuses etc. But the key part is those are negotiated directly with investors in the company, so someone decides that yes this person is worth that much.

    4. Re:Sure they're worth it by DarkVader · · Score: 1

      Note that the post above claimed that "That includes bonuses, stock options, etc."

      And CEO pay isn't typically negotiated with investors. It's decided by the board of directors, which is typically composed of other CEOs. And while they're technically elected by shareholders, in reality they are picked by very few shareholders.

    5. Re:Sure they're worth it by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Oh, by the way: Is that including bonuses? Because that's where the money is at with CEOs.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  52. Product quality, worker satisfaction, viability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would suggest that given the the low levels of product quality and worker satisfaction indicate that those driven to be bosses have great skill at getting to be bosses. However, by and large, those skills seem to be incompatible with good management skills. This same pattern applies to politics. Those driven to be in power are woefully incompetent at managing the reins they control as witnessed by the current state of the world and its direction. Which points to the electorate being part of the issue in electing those in power.

  53. Not sure by subanark · · Score: 1

    I work at a large company. Even though I listen to key notes, etc... I don't have the background to make the decisions that are made, or know if they are any good. Maybe given a couple of months of research in determine how good the decisions are, I might be able to make an informed decision, but not today.

    If I had to decide, I would say no, purely for the reason that replacing a CEO causes disruption.

  54. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or maybe psychopaths have a finely-honed ability to become CEO of companies.

    Silverman is hardly a person I would consider as having keen insight into the nature of humans.

  55. Not just the CEO, it is often a suble person to go by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    In many companies I have seen a much more subtle person who needed to go. The CEO was often a gungho type who pushed hard for progress and whatnot. But there was often one person who most people knew were sabotaging their efforts, that one person who everyone knew was keeping things down. That was the person who walked into the room and all conversations stopped, as they would use any spitballing conversations against you. Someone might say, "I should learn python" and suddenly that person was talking about how a certain programmer doesn't know one of the foundational languages. But on the other side programmers might be saying, we need to expose our software through a python API and suddenly this person was saying that exposing things was a huge security hazard. Even though this was all the competition was doing and customers were being lost.

    Or another company where one of the senior managers had formed a little club. You were in and great, or you were out and shit. Highly destructive. Or the vague promise executive, who was always dangling imaginary carrots. Eliminating them would have made each of those companies a far better place.

    Although I can name a couple of CEOs who's sudden departure would have been a prettywell instant party. Not metaphorically, but there would have been a huge blowout party where the employees would have gone so far as to all dress up like the departed CEO.

  56. In a heartbeat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (Posting as AC for my own protection, since I'm going to be seriously bad-mouthing someone who might recognize my normal username)

    My company's CEO is the biggest thing dragging us down right now.

    After a messy divorce, he crawled into a bottle. He usually shows up late and hung over, and leaves at lunch for the bar and rarely makes it back. Add to that an addiction to Adderall, and probably more drugs outside of work. I don't care what he does out of the office but when it impacts your work this heavily, it's become everyone's problem.

    He's stopped being a leader. He used to be involved with most of the projects. Now? He only works on one, single project, and it's one that is constantly losing us money. Any CEO with half a brain would have cut the project months ago - it's a maintenance contract at this point, we could (and should) cancel it at any time. But apparently he's doing it as a personal favor to the client - to the tune of several thousand dollars a month.

    His strategy for the company is a crapshoot. He dreams of landing the Big Project that makes us all millionaires. He almost had one once before, but sheer incompetence by the partner companies tanked it, after years and years of struggling. Now he's got half the company working on another idea some rich guy brought to us - and isn't paying us for until it's done. When I (as a shareholder) raised some questions about it, he said we were only working gratis for four weeks, and then we'd stop until the "client" could raise some investment capital and start paying. That was two months ago. This is a guy who buys and trades in Senators - he could easily afford to build this thing on his own cash, but since he's got a better understanding of risk, he went looking for a patsy to take the risk for him.

    He wastes money like crazy, for a company this size. In a rare fit of sobriety, he hired a project manager to try to keep everything on track. Sadly, said PM is a) completely out of his depth on any technical matter, b) lazy enough that he frequently orders others to manage themselves, c) wastes everyone's time in company-wide meetings, and d) is *also* a drug addict. He hired a "secretary" who has been on medical leave for most of the past year - for three different back-to-back reasons. (We suspect she has blackmail material on him).

    He's got everyone on their toes. Thrice now, he's nearly fired people for petty reasons. Once he asked for input on how the company could improve, and then nearly fired the one person who voiced criticism. Not even of him personally, just his favorite CMS. Another nearly got fired for refusing to give an hours estimate until he actually knew what the task was. The most recent was someone calling out of work because his car broke down - this despite his own ten-hour workweek and multiple impromptu vacations, or his favored employee's constant absences.

    The only thing keeping him in power right now is that it takes a 2/3rds majority to remove a shareholder from the company or elect new officers, and he still owns 40%. And even that can't protect him forever.

  57. not being pleased by your CEO is by design by ecorona · · Score: 1

    Modern corporations operate not to maximize employee satisfaction, but to maximize profit. CEOs have a mandate to appease shareholders and not employees. This often means doing things like freezing bonuses, cutting jobs, salaries that don't keep up with inflation, and cutting benefits. Of course employees would fire their CEOs. This is subjective. What are the goals of the corporation (99 out of 100 times it's to make money folks)? Are they being met thanks to decisions made by the CEO?

  58. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by DarkVader · · Score: 1

    Exactly. The job attracts psychopaths. The hiring process looks for psychopaths.

  59. Or CTO, or C... by Improv · · Score: 1

    Sometimes the question is more interesting for other C-level executives.

    --
    For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
  60. I wouldn't fire him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd put a bullet in his head. Better safe than sorry.

    -Signed,
    permanently disabled & unemployed.

  61. Those that are still here? Maybe. by Tool+Man · · Score: 1

    I'm in a company that was acquired by a competitor, where the resulting company was in turn acquired by a much larger, overseas firm. That latter firm knows little I think except the balance sheet, so things are really managed by the CEO of the first acquiring firm. He isn't at all from our field, says the right things, and much of it bullshit. Most of the firm I came with is gone, on their own or when much of it got closed suddenly. So yeah, many of the employees he had would fire him, but it's probably 50-50 on those that are left.

  62. Kim Jong ill out of an canyon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And If he is to fat cut him down

  63. fire myself?? by zoefff · · Score: 1

    love to be a freelancer...

  64. Hell YES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for the Federal Government.

  65. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Or maybe psychopaths have a finely-honed ability to become CEO of companies.

    Why is that a bad thing? There is evidence that psychopaths actually make better leaders because they don't let their emotions cloud their judgement. They will dispassionately make the hard decisions for the good of the organization, rather than dithering out of misplaced compassion.

  66. Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and democracy? Anarchy/capitalism works now with an inactive CEO; why would it stop functioning just because the CEO is gone?

  67. Nope by Necron69 · · Score: 1

    My CEO has only been on the job for about three years, and frankly, he is a vast improvement over the previous guy. He's doing a great job, and moving the company in the right direction. He clearly understands the industry a lot better than I do, so I'm not complaining.

    - Necron69

  68. Oh, hell yes? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    You mean the asshat CEO of a Fortune 500 company who got a 60% raise for having a lousy fiscal year and implemented a 10% layoff that put me out of work for eight months?

  69. Everyone Thinks They Can Be CEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But, in reality, not everyone can be a CEO. First, if the company is of any appreciable size, being CEO is a 24/7 job. The phone can ring any time, and you have to drop what you're doing and deal with whatever it is. Contrary to what organized labor thinks, CEOs are not lazy people who just sit around and rake in the money.

  70. Dictator in chief by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't give a shit if the CEO:

    1. Hates their employees and makes it known at every opportunity
    2. Hates customers are makes it known even to them at every opportunity
    3. Pays shit and offers piss poor working conditions
    4. Actually worships hitler, stalin, satan and natas
    5. Routinely makes decisions you believe to be absurd

    What I absolutely refuse to tolerate is a CEO who is lazy and or incompetent. I've walked three times and counting for this. There is no future in companies run by lazy idiots and no point working for them.

  71. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And what if the organization is an LLC, so the CEO is "making the hard decisions" for the good of his bank account?

    Sympathy for the devil. Who are you sucking up to?

  72. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    So if ALL your CEOs are an issue, perhaps the issue is you.

    No doubt I've chosen to work for places I'd have been better off avoiding. But look around. Tech company CEOs not worth a dime are a dime a dozen.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  73. sort of by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    Does "fire at" count?

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  74. Absolutely by plazman30 · · Score: 1

    And the CTO too. The level of inefficiency in my place of work is mind boggling. Too much corporate politics. It's costing my company a fortune. We go through binge and purge fire/hire cycles and well as outsource/insource cycles. I can't even imagine the annual bill for this mess.

  75. Tim cook needs to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing new for years except his big stock options.

  76. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1

    [psychopaths] will dispassionately make the hard decisions for the good of the organization

    By definition, they will make decisions that aren't hard for them for the good of themselves.

    You might have them confused with sociopaths, but either way, not caring about others in the company quickly spreads downwards and there goes productivity when everyone starts just caring about how important they look.

  77. Co-operatives by Pseudonymus+Bosch · · Score: 1

    I haven't seen any mention of co-operatives. They exist and operate among capitalistic competition. Some co-operatives thrive and some crash. And some thrive and then crash.

    --
    __
    Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
    GW Bu
  78. Most CEOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... your employees 'own' the company ...

    Many CEOs are claiming "your boss doesn't owe you anything". Those CEOs, with a guaranteed payment after driving down the value of the company, they're the ones I'd fire. But what's the next step? Others are talking about the problem of politicizing the workplace but everyone has ignored a big problem; one can't get a better CEO from the supermarket: For elections to work, there must be a training scheme for CEOs, not the de facto royalty scheme of: Went to an Ivy league institution and was an above-average mid-level manager. It's ridiculous that bottom-level employees must be trained (to flip burgers or mop the floor) before they're given a job but the position of CEO is awarded to someone without commensurate training and skills. It is the Peter principle in action again and no surprise, the result is an empire of mediocrity. The job of CEO needs to be filled the same way other jobs are: From a trained and experienced labour market.

  79. Re:I'd probably fire every CEO I've ever worked un by turbidostato · · Score: 1

    "Why is that a bad thing"

    Because of your own text.

    "There is evidence that psychopaths actually make better leaders"

    Maybe you are right, but that's part of the problem. Hitler was surely a great leader. The problem "merely" was where he was leading to.

    "They will dispassionately make the hard decisions for the good of the organization"

    For the good... !? Wait, wait, wait... have you read what you yourself wrote down? Why the damn hell in hell would a psychopath (you probably were thinking about sociopaths, but anyway) think at all on the good of any organization? If he were, he'd be neither psychopath nor sociopath to start with!

  80. Never heard of Mondragón? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Mondragón is the world's largest worker owned corporation. It's executive board are hired and fired by its workers. It's been running as well and as competitively as any other corporation (but less growth during booms but also less shrinkage during recessions) since shortly after WWII. US Economist Richard Wolff gave this presentation on them here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbukSeZ29o and there's an article in the Economist here: http://www.economist.com/node/13381546 What's not to like about authentic Socialism doing well out in the real world?

  81. Welcome to democracy! by tigersha · · Score: 1

    Welcome to the main problem with democracy. The people who vote do not understand the minute details fo what they are voting for. See Brexit and the election of Hitler for good examples.

    Which is why a representative democracy is always better. Direct democracy is a baaaaaaaaad idea.

    --
    The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
  82. Let's take it one step further by mvlmvl · · Score: 1

    How about democratically electing for all positions. In a hospital, nurses and medical assistants will interview IT staff and decide in a democratic vote which candidate qualifies. HR and sales will interview software engineers, and entry level QA will interview software architects and bizdev people. Cause everybody is qualified to judge other's work.

  83. Yes and no by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

    Our previous CEO? Hell yes, he was no good. Promoted way too far up for his skill level, and although he wasn't an outright PR disaster, it was very cringe-worthy.

    Our current CEO seems a lot more level-headed, I'd definitely keep her.

    --
    Eat the rich.
  84. Size matters by NATP · · Score: 1

    For small organizations, this could work. For large enterprises (4+ layers of management; 2-5+ yr product development cycle, etc.) no.

    Emergent behavior of the organization leads to stable "Dilbert points" where the right thing (even mandatory, career-wise) actions for individuals are demonstrably the wrong things for the company in the long run. In this environment, no CEO would ever last part the first year.

  85. Quote: "Would you fire your cow orker?" by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "Would you fire your cow orker?"

    I don't know what "orking" is, but I'm guessing no one should be doing it to cows.

  86. At IBM Rometty would be gone in a minute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IBM Employees know Rometty is a clueless IDioT as well as most of the C-level execs. If the employees had a say Rometty would be out so fast her head would be spinning and so would all the C-level execs. IBM doesn't seem to get the fact that sales-weasels don't have a clue how to run a tech company, they only think about getting their bonuses for the next quarter.