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New EU Rules Promise 100Mbps Broadband and Free Wi-Fi For All (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader writes: The European Commission has promised free Wi-Fi in every town, village, and city in the European Union, in the next four years. A new grant, with a total budget of 120 million euro, will allow public authorities to purchase state-of-the art equipment, for example a local wireless access point. If approved by the the European Parliament and national ministers the cash could be available before the end of next year. The commission has also set a target for all European households to have access to download speeds of at least 100Mbps by 2025, and has redefined Internet access as a so-called universal service, while removing obligations for old universal services such as payphones. It also envisions fully deploying 5G, the fifth generation of mobile communication systems, across the European Union by 2025. Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker made reference to many of these proposals while also promising to abolish roaming once and for all in his "State of the European Union" address on Wednesday morning.

104 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. who pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    So, since this is not communist Russia.. who's paying for this?

    1. Re:who pays? by pmontra · · Score: 5, Informative

      Tax payers, so the people getting it. I already have 100 Mb/s fiber but it's ok to give it to others. Furthermore with 100 Mb/s everywhere I could start thinking to move into the countryside. What I don't understand is: only 120 M Euro? That's 20 cents per person so it's easy on taxpayers but is it enough to buy and operate the infrastructure?

    2. Re: who pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The people, through taxes, most likely. And they will be happy to do it, because Europeans do not see taxes as some evil boogeyman, but rather as a necessity to enjoy a good standard of living and not have to worry about bankrupting the entire family should they ever get cancer or if they want to send their kids to university.

    3. Re: who pays? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be the people, through debt? Many Europeans like the social services without all of the nasty tax paying business, just like their American counterparts. The difference is in the US we just print a bunch of money and pay through inflation instead of via taxes. Can't do that in the EU.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:who pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Can't you read - it is *free*!

      Money grows on trees in the EU!

    5. Re: who pays? by rubycodez · · Score: 3, Interesting

      yes and they never have banking crisis nor impending ones say in Italy and Germany, it's all wonderful.

      need I remind everyone the U.S. federal reserve has bailed out the european banking system a few years ago?

    6. Re: who pays? by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ... because Europeans do not see taxes as some evil boogeyman, but rather as a necessity to enjoy a good standard of living and not have to worry about bankrupting the entire family should they ever get cancer or if they want to send their kids to university.

      And all Europeans think exactly alike too... And all of them love taxes!

    7. Re:who pays? by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What I don't understand is: only 120 M Euro? That's 20 cents per person so it's easy on taxpayers but is it enough to buy and operate the infrastructure?

      You are making the assumption that this is a well thought out and feasible plan, which it very well may not be.

      If it were really that cheap and easy to do I would expect that some company would have already done so and charged everyone a few Euro for the service because if it's cost effective at an order of magnitude less cost, the profit margins would be obscene.

      I suspect that important details have been overlooked which add significant cost to the project, or the person who initially proposed the idea has no idea what this should actually cost to implement.

    8. Re:who pays? by Bugler412 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Dirty little secret that Americans don't seem to understand, high taxes in a non-corrupt, non-military industrial complex dominated government pays for things like high quality roads, telecom and other infrastructure. Have you even visited Europe? Ever?

    9. Re:who pays? by ruir · · Score: 1

      That is the beauty of it, they have told you 120M Euros, but have not if it will be per location, or per week or month...

    10. Re:who pays? by ruir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      EC is non-corrupt? That must be the joke of the decade.

    11. Re: who pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The EU has the Stability and Growth pact, which places strict limits on the deficit and debt that member governments can accrue, so governments can't just go crazy running up debt.

      However that's not relevant here; this 120 million euro fund comes out of the EU budget, so it's already paid for, and doesn't require additional revenue to be raised by member states. Each EU member state pays a certain amount to the EU, and the EU decides how to spend that money, so if it decides to spend some of it on this quite useful goal, rather than some of the stupid and wasteful things the EU has been known to fund in the past, good for them.

      Of course, there's no guarantee that this will actually be passed, or that there will be anything binding in the final form.

    12. Re: who pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, plenty of them complain. But they definitely do not turn down the services they take for granted thanks to half of their paycheck going to taxes.

      In my experience, Europeans complain more than Americans. But they complain about really stupid things because they see the grass as greener on the other side and they do not realize how good they have it until they have actually lived in the US or some other perceived paradise.

      On the other hand, Americans are convinced that they have it the best, while in reality they are the ones who deserve to complain. Yet instead they are thankful to their bloated military of heroes for protecting their freedom in the Middle East and to their government for letting them live, at least as long as they can afford to live.

    13. Re: who pays? by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      need I remind everyone the U.S. federal reserve has bailed out the european banking system a few years ago?

      What is yond nonsense thou art spewing f'rth?

    14. Re:who pays? by brianwski · · Score: 1

      > If it were really that cheap and easy to do I would expect that some company would have already done so and charged everyone a few Euro...

      They have, it's called cellular data services (LTE). In Europe it would be Vodafone, Telekom, Orange, etc. Sure, the frequency and protocol is slightly different than 802.11 WiFi, but it is wireless, it is already everywhere, it already works, you can surf web pages on your phone or tablet wirelessly TODAY, and the data rates are a usable 50 Mbits/sec now and they are rolling out upgrades to 100 Mbits/sec and higher. LTE has some European deployments at 450 Mbits/sec today: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/ind...

      I wonder what the tradeoff of 802.11 WiFi vs LTE is. While cell phone data plans are a little bit expensive the cellular providers seem to be making steady progress with faster and faster services.

    15. Re:who pays? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      The 120 Million is for the wifi hotspots - the 100Mbps download speed will be a mandated requirement of all telecoma companys, and mandates requirements are free, the coat is borne by the telecoms company and its customers, but the EU commission gets the credit.

    16. Re: who pays? by RandomSurfer314 · · Score: 1

      Right, it would be so much better if we in Europe could pay for the F-35 stealth fighter with our taxes instead...

    17. Re:who pays? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      What I don't understand is: only 120 M Euro? That's 20 cents per person so it's easy on taxpayers but is it enough to buy and operate the infrastructure?

      You need to look at it like this: Who gets the 120M?

        Juncker could never get the 120 Billion Euro that would be needed to do it properly, so had to compromise. Someone still benefits.

    18. Re:who pays? by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

      The US should remove all military from Europe and announce that they are no longer protecting any Europe bound or originating shipping lanes.

      It would be great if US would do it. Europe could finally grow up and stop being an US lapdog :)

      Vladimir is that you ?

    19. Re:who pays? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Just curious. Whatever makes you think that YOUR government isn't corrupt?

      Seriously, most of the people I've met (US, Euro, Middle Eastern, farther eastern, whatever) seem to believe that corruption is pretty much normal in every government...except their government, of course.

      Oh, and as to "have you even visited Europe?", lived there for eight or nine years. Didn't see much to suggest that European governments were paragons of virtue, really.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    20. Re:who pays? by I4ko · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No need to wonder. Most WISPs are already switching to LTE from 802.11 WiFi

    21. Re: who pays? by iampiti · · Score: 1

      As an European let me say taxes make sense for some things. This is not one of them IMO. Free wifi for all? We could use that money in more pressing issues.

    22. Re:who pays? by galabar · · Score: 1

      ...and leave NATO. Maybe a US_UK_CAN organization?

    23. Re: who pays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      UK? Sorry, no more EU goodies for you.

    24. Re: who pays? by bestweasel · · Score: 2

      Half? In the UK it's a third for someone in the middle.

    25. Re:who pays? by Bugler412 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No rose colored glasses, and I'm a US citizen who has travelled to EU countries frequently. No place is perfect, I just know from personal direct observation travelling in EU and closely associated countries like Switzerland that in exchange for the higher taxes that roads, public transit, education, health care and other government services are in an entirely different (better) realm of quality than what we get here in the US. You get what you pay for.

    26. Re: who pays? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      just fact of the the events in 2010

    27. Re:who pays? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Furthermore with 100 Mb/s everywhere I could start thinking to move into the countryside.

      You think every single person will have a full 100 Mb/s bandwidth available? Nothing shared?

      --
      No sig today...
    28. Re:who pays? by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      lol 120M maybe to set up some of the infrastructure. That 120M won't cover the cost of the last mile/kilometer and the day to day operations.

    29. Re: who pays? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      And in this particular case, 120 million is a laughable amount toward the goal. Maybe you could wire up a large township outside of a city for this.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    30. Re:who pays? by mattmarlowe · · Score: 1

      Honestly, if the USA ever gets into a serious war where it's survival is at state, I wouldn't count on the Europeans to help in the slightest....they are part of NATO, but don't even meet the minimum obligations for membership (2% of budget for military) nor do they have much of a recent record for sending more than token forces to help allies (and, then, only if they're promised that their is little risk to their soldiers).

      Economics wise, the European Union and China are both trying to replace the United States....I'm not sure if Europe would be that sad if something bad happened to the USA.

      So, yes, I think the USA should quit NATO - especially since the UK will no longer be inside the EU.

      In the last 50 years or so, the USA has only had a few countries that it could count on at all for more than token help....England (UK), Japan (although it's had limitations on its military), and perhaps South Korea. I'm not sure if Canada has provided any significant assistance (their was noise about them sending troops to Iraq, but given the size of Canada's population - I'm not sure if it was a significant number).
       

    31. Re:who pays? by mattmarlowe · · Score: 1

      parent post deserves mod points.

    32. Re: who pays? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      120million for wifi equipment is actually quite a lot. The 100Mb/s internet connections are not funded by this.

    33. Re: who pays? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      That would help the math, but it still doesn't work out very well. Spitballing here. You can probably, in bulk, cover around 750 users for $10,000 in capital costs in a densely populated area - assuming an existing upstream connection. This money would cover 9 million users. That's a lot - enough to do a single metro area. And this is directed at rural areas, so the impact should be more significant. Unfortunately, the $10,000 will probably skyrocket in those areas because the access points will be more spread out and the upstream bandwidth less available.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  2. Civilized by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seems like a good idea. Shame that the US is going to fall further behind on this front.

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    1. Re:Civilized by gfxguy · · Score: 3, Informative

      90% of the U.S. will likely have > 1000Mbps by 2025, so most of us will be 10x ahead.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re: Civilized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's quite astonishing that spastics haven't worked out that every fucking cunt knows free means free at the point of use, no cunt in the whole of fucking Europe is labouring under any other understanding

    3. Re:Civilized by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      how can it be a good idea with a measly 120M euro ? that won't provide wifi to the towns of one country, let alone the EU. Do you have a magic EU Jeebzuz that breaks and multiplies euro coins like fish and loaves? what a load of bullshit

    4. Re:Civilized by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the government has no reason or motivation to control the overhead

      What on earth gave you that idea? Governments have been cutting funding for all manner of things over the past decade. Oh, and government income comes from taxation, which is related to the state of the economy and improving broadband access has so far led to increases in tax revenue everywhere that it's been measured.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Civilized by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      Oh capital idea. Free wi0fi, 1gig speeds, unlimited rice pudding!

            It is quite astonishing that erstwhile intelligent people still believe in the concept of "free". You will pay and pay heavily, because the government has no reason or motivation to control the overhead.

      Yes, it's like that with the National Health Service in the UK.

      Oh, sorry, my bad -- the UK government does a VASTLY better job controlling the overhead than does the US free market.

    6. Re:Civilized by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      90% of the U.S. will likely have > 1000Mbps by 2025, so most of us will be 10x ahead.

      And 10% will still be barely faster than dialup, so by 2025, 10% of us—probably the poorest people who can least afford to pay for the infrastructure improvements to bring their speeds up to snuff—will be 1000x behind.

      --

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    7. Re: Civilized by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      18 weeks for non-emergencies.

      "You have the legal right to start your non-emergency NHS consultant-led treatment within a maximum of 18 weeks from referral."

    8. Re:Civilized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The USA currently lags behind the EU in connection speeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Internet_connection_speeds
      The EU is planning to increase speeds. Do you really think the US will suddenly be 10x ahead of the EU? Through the limitless power of wishful thinking perhaps?
      USA won't beat the EU until the last-mile monopoly is broken.

    9. Re: Civilized by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1

      It's quite astonishing that spastics haven't worked out that every fucking cunt knows free means free at the point of use, no cunt in the whole of fucking Europe is labouring under any other understanding

      And thus the Orwellian mangling of language becomes so commonplace it's accepted as the new norm. Let me re-acquaint you with the actual meaning of "free" as it pertains to payment for good or services: it means you don't pay anything. Period.

      The usage of "free" in the context of this article is completely false. The proper term would be "taxpayer subsidized" but nobody likes that term. Thus "free" is appropriated, misused, and defended by the likes of you.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    10. Re:Civilized by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1, Insightful

      10% of us—probably the poorest people who can least afford to pay for the infrastructure improvements to bring their speeds up to snuff—will be 1000x behind.

      I'm still missing the part where this is somehow my problem and I'm required to pay higher taxes to fix it.

      Live in a rural area with shitty service because it's unprofitable for the ISP to run millions of dollars of fiber to service fifty customers? Too bad. Move. Or get satellite. Or deal with slower speeds. You're there by choice. Nobody's stopping you from moving somewhere that offers fiber to the curb for $75/month if that's what you really want.

      Can't afford faster service? Again, not my fucking problem. Get a job. Or if you have a job but it pays shitty, too fucking bad. You chose poorly when it came to selecting careers. Still not my fucking problem.

      If this sounds cold-hearted, too bad. You have no right to anything I've earned through my own hard work just because you've made choices that put you in a bad position. You want charity? Fine. Ask for it through charity. But the moment you suggest the government should forcibly confiscate my earnings to fund your Internet is the moment we become enemies.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    11. Re:Civilized by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      So it's more important to spend millions of dollars getting high speed internet to some cabin in the mountains for a hermit who doesn't even want it, than to provide higher speed for 1000 people in an urban area?

      That's just plain stupid. You're a Democrat, aren't you.

    12. Re:Civilized by BoberFett · · Score: 1

      Poor people live in urban areas. Urban areas have fast broadband because it's easy and cheaper per residence to run more lines in high density population zones. It's farmers who have slow internet because they live in the boonies.

      You don't have a clue, do you?

    13. Re:Civilized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I once thought like this... when I was 17.

      Then I learned how the world really works, how decisions regarding policy, law, and career opportunities actually get made, and how people obtain the power to influence those things. "Bootstraps" and Randian personal initiative only get you part of the way there, prisoner-of-enigma. If luck of birth—and a personal, built-in network of *the right* people (read: elite)—didn't work out for you, then it doesn't matter how hard working, ambitious, or smart you are. You'll never be one of them.

      But you go ahead and keep believing that you got everything you have for yourself, by your own hard work alone, and that everyone in the US has the same opportunity or chance to get there as you did. Or that you have any chance at all of landing, say, a C-level job by your mid-thirties at a big multinational (not a tech startup) if you didn't go to Wharton & Oxford. Ce n'est pas possible... Keep on believing in that American Dream thing and the exceptions they hold up to supposedly prove the rule. I'll just stay in my cynical corner and enjoy my middle class techie existence without pretending that everyone else could actually obtain it.

    14. Re:Civilized by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yeah because a government funded initiative to provide coverage to those that companies forget means instantly stopping all work by companies who were rolling out internet previously.

      Why is it always all or nothing with you USA guys? You seem to think socialised medicare prevents you from choosing your doctor, socialised internet prevents your ISP from raping you in the wallet to provide you incrementally faster service, and that 100% of fuel taxes solely funds roads. ... Oh wait I've seen the sad state of your roads, that one is probably true.

    15. Re:Civilized by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      And a huge amount of the EU is already beyond 100Mbps, this is just to catch up their equivalent of the 10% behind.

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    16. Re:Civilized by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Countries are literally paying negative interest rates on the money they borrow. Paying off any debt right now is retarded.

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    17. Re: Civilized by dave420 · · Score: 1

      We all know what "free" means. You are picking one particular definition and pretending that's the only definition. "Free" means all kinds of things, including having no price to use something.

    18. Re:Civilized by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Interest rates are very low at the moment, so for a company or a country not to have debt is silly. If you can borrow at 2% and invest the money in improving your productivity to give 5% returns, then that's far better than paying off your loans. At the moment, as the other poster said, the interest rates for borrowing for a lot of countries are negative. If you can invest the money in infrastructure that will improve tax returns, you'd have to be insane not to borrow more and spend it in the current climate, because you're literally being given free money.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Civilized by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      So it's more important to spend millions of dollars getting high speed internet to some cabin in the mountains for a hermit who doesn't even want it, than to provide higher speed for 1000 people in an urban area?

      That's just plain stupid. You're a Democrat, aren't you.

      We hermits want it you elitist motherfucker.

    20. Re:Civilized by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Poor people live in urban areas. Urban areas have fast broadband because it's easy and cheaper per residence to run more lines in high density population zones.

      Your first sentence is factually incorrect, and the implication of the second one—that poor people in urban areas have access to fast broadband—is also frequently factually incorrect.

      First, for at least the past several decades, the percentage of people living in poverty in non-urban areas has been higher than in urban areas. There are still way more poor people in urban areas than in rural areas, but only because urban areas have way more people in general. Country folks are typically four or five percent more likely to be poor than city folks (Source: U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Survey via USDA).

      Second, poor people living in urban areas tend to live in specific neighborhoods within those urban areas. They tend to be clustered, and telecoms can't be bothered with upgrading the infrastructure to serve them better, because they would get more return by spending the same amount of money to run new lines to a rich suburb. This is an ongoing problem to such a degree that New York City recently said that it is considering suing one of its major utilities (I forget which one) for being years behind schedule at rolling out fiber to the entire city as promised. Other cities have had similar issues.

      --

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  3. Way under-budgeted by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I appreciate the sentiment, but 120 million euro is way, waaaaay too little for a project of that scale.

    Personally, I have the option of a 500Mbit line, but I have friends who live just a few kilometers away, who are stuck with ~10Mbit DSL or less. Based on my experience in the ISP/telco world, you can multiply that amount of money by ten, and maybe that'll be enough. For one country.

    --
    Eat the rich.
    1. Re:Way under-budgeted by thona · · Score: 1

      Same thought. 120 million - that is what? WIth luck it is ONE access point (low cost, definitely not cisco) for every not too small village. WIthout internet, without installation. I am all in favour of not dishing out money like that, but let's get real - for a village it is likely cheaper to buy it WITHOUT grant, because of the time it takes to papare the paperwork. Whoever decided on that amount was joking.

    2. Re:Way under-budgeted by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      You're reading more into it than what it says. It doesn't say that 120m Euros will pay for it all. It just says that a grant in total of 120m Euros will be available to pay for state of the art equipment.

      It also says that free wifi will be available in every town, village, and city. It doesn't say how widespread it is or that every person can access it within the locality. Have a library that has free wifi? That town is covered. Is there a coffee shop in Paris with free wifi? Paris is checked off. It doesn't mean that Europeans will be guaranteed to get that wifi signal outside that town library, or the other side of Paris.

    3. Re:Way under-budgeted by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's all about making Europe look attractive. The results of the Brexit referendum surprised a lot of people, but shouldn't have done. One the one side you had people who hated the EU largely for emotional reasons. On the other side, you had people who had a lukewarm liking for the EU, for pragmatic reasons. Very few people on the Remain side were saying 'The EU is great!' Most were saying 'leaving the EU would be very bad!' The most honest of the lot was Jeremy Corbyn, who said 'the EU sucks, but it's better than the alternative.' To make people actively like the EU, they needed a bunch of big changes:

      • Replace the IMF-led punitive austerity enforcement with something that bails out citizens of countries, not banks that made bad loans. Greece should have been allowed to default, the banks that made bad loans should have taken a big loss, and then the EU should have invested in infrastructure to improve the Greek economy. Instead, Greece was forced to implement measures that caused their economy to shrink (causing less tax revenue, making them even less able to make payments) and were forced to make payments to the banks that didn't do correct risk assessment before making a loan.
      • Move more power to the EU Parliament and away from the Commission. This would make the whole institution more visibly democratic. Concentrating power in a small handful of people who are appointed by individual national governments just makes it easy for national governments to push unpopular measures through in their own country via the EU. The UK is very good at this and as a result triggered a lot of resentment from people who dislike EU directives and don't realise that they were proposed and pushed through by the British representatives in the Commission and the Council.
      • Impose the tariffs on dumped Chinese steel that the UK vetoed. With those, we wouldn't have just lost a lot of jobs in British steelmaking (which the UK government helpfully blamed on the EU, just before the referendum, in spite of being directly responsible for them.
      • Sort out immigration. Germany shouldn't be able to grant instant leave to remain to people who then leave Germany and spread out over the EU. Make it so you don't get the right to free settlement throughout the EU until n years after settling and the problem goes away: if Germany wants to let in a million people, Germany has to find space, jobs, and infrastructure for them for, say, five years. Then they can move on.
      • Stop benefit tourism. Not a big issue in reality, but a big issue in perception. Make it so that your own government pays for you, whichever country you're living in. If you're a Brit in France, Britain pays for any state benefits you receive. If you're a Romanian in Britain, Romania pays. Total cost would likely be negligible for the states involved, yet would remove one of the bit anti-EU arguments.
      • Sort out fiscal policy. For the Eurozone to function, there needs to be a flow of funds for infrastructure investment from the richer areas to the poorer. Without that, Germany benefits from increased exports due to an artificially devalued currency, Greece suffers from an artificially over-valued currency and you have a perpetual cycle of bailouts.

      That list would be a good start and might make people a bit more enthusiastic about the EU. Instead, they announce 'look, here's some unfunded free stuff!' and hope that it works just as well as real reform. I voted against leaving the EU, but I'd have been much happier if I could have voted for staying in.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Way under-budgeted by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I think the article is conflating different things, the 120m euro fund is for free WiFi. And they have a goal of 100 Mbps for everyone by 2025, but that's more of a political ambition. Here in Norway I know last year they estimated ~600 million euro to give everyone 10/0.8 Mbps, what 100/100(?) would cost I don't know but many billions but it's an unfunded "goal" of our government too. There's still a lot of steam in the pure commercial + hybrid private/public fiber rollout though, it's really two different things. One is the universal access that we build out for absolutely everyone, the other is that we want to have a modern infrastructure for the economy.

      --
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  4. Paid for by Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Paid for by Apple!

  5. Great by NotInHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

    UK will get a firewall instead, while on the mainland you have free wifi. Nice trade isn't it?

    1. Re:Great by npslider · · Score: 1

      Cisco lowered their prices enough to make that possible?

    2. Re:Great by NotInHere · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Great by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Britain shouldn't have brexited the EU then...

  6. Recycling old APs with new software would be sane by mtaht · · Score: 1

    Instead of a new AP for every villiage, how about one reflashed with some modern software (openwrt/lede)?

  7. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  8. Who pays for the "free" stuff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    TANSTAAFL

  9. ACCESS, not affordable access by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    The commission has also set a target for all European households to have access to download speeds of at least 100Mbps by 2025,

    All this means is that ISPs will put a new, premium, service on their portfolios, priced at whatever it would cost them to install - or whatever they choose: either to make a killing from, or to discourage uptake.

    There is nothing in this target to say the provision has to be affordable. So if an ISP in an out-of-the-way place, maybe halfway up a mountain, decides it would cost them €250,000 to provide their half-dozen subscribers with 100MBit/s connections, they would price the product accordingly.

    As such, this is just a wish, but not a practical requirement that EU citizens must be given this sort of speed, for the tenner-a-month they are paying for "ordinary" broadband, now.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:ACCESS, not affordable access by npslider · · Score: 1

      All this means is that ISPs will put a new, premium, service on their portfolios, priced at whatever it would cost them to install - or whatever they choose.

      With only 120 million euro to spend... they have to recoup their costs somehow!

    2. Re:ACCESS, not affordable access by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      All this means is that ISPs will put a new, premium, service on their portfolios, priced at whatever it would cost them to install -

      Under that definition of "access", everyone in the United States has access to gigabit internet service. They just cannot afford to pay what it would cost to get it.

      There is nothing in this target to say the provision has to be affordable.

      I'm guessing that it is already available for a goodly sum. What does this pronouncement of mandatory "access" mean unless it also means "affordable"? It is meaningless otherwise. It's like saying "everyone will have access to Stoly vodka by 2025." Everyone has access to it now, except that it's expensive and many people cannot afford it. And in some places the "access" is through state-run liquor stores that keep banker's hours. But everyone has your definition of "access".

  10. For the new Century by npslider · · Score: 1

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the guarantee of high speed Internet.--That to secure these networks."

    Oh wait... wrong country!

  11. Well, There's This by twmcneil · · Score: 4, Interesting
    While the specific plans may not be actually feasible and the budget may bloat to 20 times its original estimate, there is this:

    has redefined Internet access as a so-called universal service, while removing obligations for old universal services such as payphones

    Something those of us in the US would do well to emulate.

    --
    "The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
    1. Re:Well, There's This by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Something those of us in the US would do well to emulate.

      So if you cannot afford a cell phone, or are in a place with no cell service, there should be absolutely no way to make a telephone call unless you happen to have someplace to install a wired phone of your own? No transients ever need to make phone calls?

      It's nice for the technical haves to tell the rest of the world that their needs are irrelevant.

    2. Re:Well, There's This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Universal Internet access is a superset of universal payphone access, being a more generic communication method; all places that previously had payphones as a result of the universal service obligation necessarily would have internet access, since it's the new universal service obligation; and federal subsidized cell phone plans already exist in the US and include broadband as a support service. Your argument from incredulity is moot.

  12. Free DNS for all as well! by The-Ixian · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Want to use the municipal wifi? well, here's your DNS servers (no, you can't change them! Why would you even ask that citizen?)

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    1. Re:Free DNS for all as well! by ruir · · Score: 1

      Hey, we cannot open pirate bay, and sites talking badly of the establishment, and uber with those DNS servers...and my gosh, we cannot open sites with sheep in Scotland.

  13. As the EU crumbles... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Easy to make promises you can't keep to save your job. First the UK, then Greece, then a plethora more and there goes the EU. Those of us living in 'the zone' 20 years ago are shaking our heads mumbling 'told you so'.

  14. Data caps? by Calydor · · Score: 1

    What kind of data caps are we looking at here?

    The most expensive German mobile broadband connections have a 15 GB data cap per month, after which you get throttled to 64 kbps for the remainder of the month.

    My current ADSL connection maxes out at 448/96 kbps thanks to being too far from the DSLAM, so a 100 mbps mobile broadband connection would be very welcome so I can experience things like Skyping, Netflix-And-Chill, playing games while my friends are still playing them etc. - but it depends a LOT on the monthly cap!

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    1. Re:Data caps? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      ... Will convert for internet.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  15. Sucks to be Britain by gachunt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Keep Calm and Carrier on

  16. town, village, and city? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    OK, so the people who can already get 100Mb for pennies a day get an even better deal, and the people stuck on with plans calling for hundreds of dollars for a satellite dish installation and still only 10Mb for loads more money per month get nothing?

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re: town, village, and city? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I take it you haven't been to Northern Europe? The Nordic countries have decent consumer rights legislation so mobile operators must provide the same service everywhere, if they wish to have a license for areas with (by their metrics) "high" population density. You can really get 4G in the middle of nowhere there with no monthly cap and dirt cheap.

  17. Re:Recycling old APs with new software would be sa by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

    Because magic openwrt can make an 802.11b AP support Dual bad AC easily!

  18. It depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is it free Wi-Fi or rather tax funded mass surveillance?

  19. Re:Fore telling the future? by ruir · · Score: 1

    Best comment ever.

  20. Backwards (Re:Civilized) by mi · · Score: 1

    Actually, the US is way ahead of Europe on this — we tried "municipal WiFi" 15 years ago. Predictably, it failed nation fooking wide.

    For this USSR-escapee, it is simply mind-boggling, how many people continue to not see, that Socialism=Fail...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Backwards (Re:Civilized) by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      No, we didn't. There was a concerted effort to prevent municipal WiFi. Based on using both state government to preempt municipal WiFI (its illegal in most states), and I've seen it in a bunch of places. It seems immensely popular once done.

      People who got out of the USSR don't seem to get moderation. Governments shouldn't run sneaker factories. But there are plenty of things (e.g. roads) that work well when run by government. There's no real reason to assume without more justification that anything falls into one category or the other.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Backwards (Re:Civilized) by mi · · Score: 1

      There was a concerted effort to prevent municipal WiFi.

      Citations, please...

      Based on using both state government to preempt municipal WiFI (its illegal in most states)

      WiFi is not illegal explicitly. Provision of non-government-specific services by the government is prohibited in some places. Which makes perfect sense — because the prospect of competing with the town hall is the kiss of death for an honest business-plan. But even where it was not prohibited — such as Chicago — it still fell apart. San Francisco — the nation's most "progressive" town — cancelled theirs in 2007. You were saying?

      And, had it somehow succeeded, the entirely new sort of worms would've started coming out of the can.

      It seems immensely popular once done.

      Only among porn-surfers, it would seem. But do list your own citations, please.

      Governments shouldn't run sneaker factories.

      Why not? How else can the workers be protected from exploitation by KKKorporations interested only in profit$?!?! What, other than collective ownership of means of production, can prevent such abuses as well as shipping the manufacturing to other countries?

      I challenge you to come up with an argument for government-owned WiFi or schools, that would not apply to a government-owned sneaker factory. Unlike with wired Internet — or water- and gas-pipes — there is not even the usual "last mile" argument with WiFi.

      But there are plenty of things (e.g. roads) that work well when run by government.

      Citations really are weak point of yours, let me help you. Ooops, government-owned roads obviously do not "work well" either. Would privately-owned ones be better? We never tried... But we can look around... If Tokyo can have privately-owned and competing subway/commuter-rail lines — which actually works well — why can't New York?

      For about 100 years now, the Statists have been repeating the myth of "natural monopoly" — convincing the rest of us and themselves that some things are better done by "a public utility". Looked at carefully, the myth falls apart. We've fallen for it, when we gave AT&T their telephone monopoly — and paid dearly for that mistake. Why would anyone seek to repeat it in other markets?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  21. Taxes don't fund billionaires in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although it's obviously untrue that EU politicians are not corrupt, it's a different form of corruption to the US one. The corruption in the EU is a power grab, while in the US it is a money grab.

    That's why the US has such shitty public services. Massive amounts of US taxation end up going into the US military industrial complex, not only funding widespread death and destruction abroad but also lining the pockets of billionaires, instead of building a better country for US taxpayers.

    The EU is corrupt too, but money for public welfare and national infrastructure is to a degree ringfenced and open to inspection. It's not a perfect system but it does keep most of the money where it belongs, paid by the people and used for the people, not to fund billionaires.

    Alas we occasionally listen to the americans and help them fight their wars and pay into their war machine, but it tends not to last long because waging war has almost zero support among citizens of EU nations. We've had too much experience with war in the past, and have no love of it. It's really quite different to the outlook in the US.

    1. Re:Taxes don't fund billionaires in EU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Once you grab the power, then you can grab the money...

    2. Re:Taxes don't fund billionaires in EU by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

      Case in point: The USA, where the power and the money were grabbed a century ago, and the reins are increasingly tightly held.

  22. Re:Take that, Britain by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    But Britain has biscuits!

  23. State-of-the-art? by tomhath · · Score: 1

    A new grant, with a total budget of 120 million euro, will allow public authorities to purchase state-of-the art equipment, for example a local wireless access point.

    Well, it will have been state-of-the-art at some point in time before it was purchased. It will be obsolescent by the time it's installed.

  24. More proof the US is a 3rd world nation by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    We will spend the next 20 years arguing why we can't do the same, and bribing politicians to do nothing, while the EU does it in 3.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  25. I simply can't understand... by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

    ...how you said that with a straight face. You do realize that the US average is no better than much of Europe, and in fact currently lags a fair bit of Europe (northern Europe in particular) by quite some distance, right? And given our penchant for putting internet access in the hands of government-mandated monopolies rather than in the hands of the people, if anything our speeds a decade hence will likely lag most of Europe by a significant margin. Only the completely delusional would forecast that we'd best it by an order of magnitude.

    Here, do some reading:

    https://www.akamai.com/us/en/o...

    1. Re:I simply can't understand... by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I understand we lag behind, but it's not a matter of lagging behind, it's at what rate we're increasing our speeds. They're talking about almost ten years from now and boasting about 100Mbs speeds, which is where a lot of people in the U.S. are already. You really think average speeds in 10 years won't be around Gbs speeds?

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:I simply can't understand... by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

      If by "a lot of people i the US" you mean perhaps 0.1% of people in the US at best -- and I'm talking solely about home internet speeds here, not business internet speeds -- then I'd agree. But that's not a lot. And yes, I really do think there's not a snowball's chance in hell that *average* internet speeds will be more than one gigabyte per second in ten years time. In fact, I'll be surprised if *average* US internet speeds are even 100Mbps in ten years.

    3. Re:I simply can't understand... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen it increase significantly in the last 10 years in any but the most densely-populated metropolitan centers. Slightly smaller urban areas (not to mention anything rural) have been completely ignored. The only places in the US this is not true are those rich enough to fight monopolies and install municipal networks. The US having /average/ Gb+ speeds in 10 years is a joke.

  26. Re:The EU is dying by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

    Fact: Bigoted ranting doesn't make it so, much as you might wish otherwise.

  27. why try? by swschrad · · Score: 1

    if the EU keeps getting snotty about who uses and who provides, it's going to be 100MBPS of nothing, as opportunities will pass them by.

    users... USERS... own The Connected Internet. they determine what it's good for. not pinheaded government suits meeting at costly offsites 4 or 6 times a year.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  28. Smell the money grab by Khyber · · Score: 1

    $120M is in no way, shape, or form enough money to provide enough WAPs and the necessary infrastructure to provide decent usable coverage to even half of the EU cities. I've done physical network buildouts in buildings before, and those can run a couple million easy depending upon things like age, construction type, pre-existing interference, building size, etc. Imagine a city vs a typical warehouse building. Now imagine every city (I wonder if they're including towns and more rural areas) in every EU country. You'd probably burn through the $120M in high-end WAPs alone to provide 100% coverage in all of the major+capital cities just by themselves. That's not including dedicated infrastructure to support such a network.

    You'd hardly do much better building out an LTE network with that little amount of money.

    So the question in my head is who are the proposed suppliers of this equipment and infrastructure for such a project? Who has connections where?

    Follow the money, let's see what we find.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  29. After crises, after Greece by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    After mishandling 2005 crisis, after destroying Greece, EU attempt to show itself in a positive light. I suspect it is too late.

  30. Common strategies by dumky2 · · Score: 1

    There are recurring political strategies: (1) under-budget and over-promise, (2) spread the money in every jurisdiction.

    The first one makes it easier to get the foot in the door. You'll have a fantastic plane with a gazillion features, but it will only cost a few millions over a couple of years.
    A few years later, when the plane barely flies and a bunch of millions have already been spent, the second strategy comes into play. Not only is it really hard to resist spending "just a little bit more" when you're "this close to being done", but it is really hard to stop spending once you have concentrated interests that have their livelihood depending on the pork.

    --
    These comments are mine; I do not speak for my employer.