Woman Sues Sex Toy App For Secretly Capturing Sensitive Information (ctvnews.ca)

A woman in Chicago filed a class action lawsuit against the makers of a smartphone-enabled vibrator, alleging their devices "secretly collect and transmit 'highly sensitive' information." CTV News reports: The lawsuit, which was filed earlier this month in an Illinois court, explains that to fully operate the device, users download the We-Connect app on a smartphone, allowing them and their partners remote control over the Bluetooth-equipped vibrator's settings... The suit alleges that unbeknownst to its customers, Standard Innovation designed the We-Connect app to collect and record intimate and sensitive data on use of the vibrator, including the date and time of each use as well as vibration settings...

It also alleges the usage data and the user's personal email address was transmitted to the company's servers in Canada. The statement of claim alleges the company's conduct demonstrates "a wholesale disregard" for consumer privacy rights and violated a number of state and federal laws.
Slashdot reader BarbaraHudson argues that "It kind of has to share that information if it's going to be remotely controlled by someone else." But the woman's lawsuit claims she wouldn't have bought the device if she'd known that while using it, the manufacturer "would monitor, collect and transmit her usage information."

Comments

And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

In the most shockingly personal way possible.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

So she's afraid of her vibrator setting being saved, but not afraid of national exposure via her lawsuit.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Fear? No. This is anger.

In the connected world, everybody that produces any software at all uses it to collect every bit of data they can get their grubby mitts on. Many people don't care, which is why it continues.

They will never stop out of politeness or respect. The only way to retain one's privacy is to fight for it, as this lady is doing.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one technology where the bugs aren't only in the software.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Opportunist]

If that was the case, then at least something good had come out of this idiocy.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Opportunist]

No. This is greed.

The old American dream was to work hard, climb the ladder, and one day you can be rich too.

When people started to realize that this isn't working anymore, they started the new American dream: Playing the lottery and trying to find ways to sue people who do have money as a new way to get rich.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

The old American dream was to work hard, climb the ladder, and one day you can be rich too.######

I've heard this a million times, and I wonder how valid this view of the
past really is. People were just as corrupt 100 years ago as they are now,
only now it's much more difficult to hide because of the ease of getting
information now vs back then. It seems like there more
corruption these days because of the flow of information.

(The good old days were not good. In the US, you could be lynched
just because of your skin color, and the perps, who often included
the local sherrif, would get away scot free. This is just one example)

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

The old American dream was to work hard, climb the ladder, and one day you can be rich too.######

I've heard this a million times, and I wonder how valid this view of the
past really is. People were just as corrupt 100 years ago as they are now,
only now it's much more difficult to hide because of the ease of getting
information now vs back then. It seems like there more
corruption these days because of the flow of information.

  The good old days were not good. In the US, you could be lynched
just because of your skin color, and the perps, which often included
the local sheriff, would get away scot free. This is just one example out of scores

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

They will never stop out of politeness or respect

They will only stop when people stop buying devices that phone home, and it becomes clear that doing it is a death sentence in the marketplace, while companies that respect privacy are rewarded in the marketplace. Right now, we do that exactly the other way around, so it's no surprise that's what we get. We reward privacy violations and punish devices that are not "web-enabled".

Internet connected TV? No.
Internet connected vibrator? No.
Internet connected automobile? No.
Internet connected heart rate monitor? No.
Internet connected refrigerator? No.

The message from the buying public is that we will buy the shiny, no matter how privacy-hostile it is. We simply don't care! With that message being sent, there is no reason for vendors not to harvest every bit of day they possibly can from our devices.

You want to make a difference? Stop buying devices that phone home.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

National exposure of the fact that you use a vibrator (like millions of people) versus every detail about your use (date/time, vibration settings, etc) being transmitted to and collected by a company, who may sell it to third parties.

Apples, oranges, etc.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[AmiMoJo]

It never worked. In a winner-takes-all society like the US, just working hard is never enough. Lots of people work hard, they don't get rich.

Good parents and luck, that's how you get rich in America.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah.

It turns out that the jobs that pay always have high barriers to entry. This is an economic necessity. If it was both easy and paid a lot, everyone would do it, which automatically pulls the pay down.

So, to get rich (apart from luck or crime or what-not) people need one (or both) of two things: 1) powerful connections, 2) a difficult-to-attain skillset.

Most people don't have and can't obtain 1, so 2 is all that's left. But that requires effort, usually intellectual effort, for which most people have zero tolerance. So they continue to work using only their generalized skillsets that any idiot can attain (and most already have), and to complain about their low salaries.

I maintain that the desire to be financially independent is natural, and I don't pass judgement on it. But the refusal to ensmarten one's self to get there is just sloth. I do pass judgment on sloth and stupidity. Those rabble get what they deserve.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

The old American dream was to work hard, climb the ladder, and one day you can be rich too.

No, the American Dream was that if you work hard, you too can have a good life - have a family, own your own house and car, and retire. It was not to be 'rich', it was to be middle class - and anyone, no matter how low their origins, could do it.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[BarbaraHudson]

It's only a matter of degree, and depending on the protocol used that allows the other person to control it over the internet, there's probably going to be server logs, same as any other internet thingee that involves communication between 2 parties via a server.

Check your web server log files. Date, time, your ip address, the url you accessed, and all the data in a GET request, they're all in there. If they're using a simple http GET, this is all normal.

This is a good way to keep someone from using it and then trying to return it as "unused." You really don't want to accept returns in such cases, or get an "unused" one..

After all, you don't know everywhere it's been, but your imagination can do a pretty good job of coming up with gross scenarios.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Applehu Akbar]

"Apples, oranges, etc."

It must be oranges. The iDick is not on the market yet.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[110010001000]

I know a SJW like you hates America, but that isn't what America is about. The American dream is not to get rich, but to have a good life. But you are right, working hard is not the key, the key is working SMART. The difference between low/middle/upper class isn't how hard you work. In fact, the lower classes work much harder than the upper ones.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[fluffernutter]

The problem is, unless you are in a position where that particular difficult to attain skillset is being used you're not likely to know it exists, both politically and geographically. Even if you do know it exists, people who are less intellectually capable than you may be given training by their companies. So it really all devolves down to 'right place right time'.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[fluffernutter]

This requires having a career that carries you through your life, which no longer exists. I know many people in the generation before me that went to work for one company, got on a defined benefit plan, worked there for their whole career and now have a great retirement. That won't be in the cards for many of my generation.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. At least in first world countries, everyone goes through diverse public education, where they are exposed to STEM in abundance. And for those who don't like STEM, there is ample exposure to opportunities in law, finance, business, etc. All they have to do is fucking pick one, and buckle down and study.

Anyone who claims they didn't know that studying finance would help build a solid career is a lazy fucking moron that deserves to be poor.

In undeveloped countries, I will concede that the situation is entirely different. Entirely. That is why I (and all my friends) bankroll poverty-fighting initiatives in those countries. But we don't give hand-outs to bums on the street here in America. You can't stand in the middle of a thriving metropolis, complete with free access to education, and claim that hard times keep you trapped in poverty. Bull-fucking-shit.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Socialism tinted glasses: "well I work as hard as X!! Why I no rich like them!!!"...

Its the same mentality as people wanting to give trophies to everyone for putting in the same amount of effort rather than giving trophies to the people that play the sport well and win points.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

The lawsuit cracks me up, as any judge will throw it out with prejudice immediately. I'm quite sure the sex toy had a EULA stating this in plain text. As any first semester law school student knows, a EULA is a contract, and for the right to use the online facilities, she gave the toy maker full access to her data.

EULAs are contracts, plain and simple. There is no law precedent to state otherwise. The "meeting of the minds" happened the second she clicked "accept".

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[HBI]

I love how someone who didn't grow up in the US somehow knows how to be successful here.

News flash: It's actually merit-based in large part. That's the great part about this country. Having good parents doesn't mean all that much when you enter the work force, unless you are very high up in the food chain. Most aren't, and even if you are - it's no guarantee of success. It's also easy to become something that the Romans used to call homines novi, a "new man". People with zero background placed in high positions.

Stop putting your European memories of class distinction atop the US. It just isn't true here. I could cite particular cases - the Harvard grad with the perfect credentials who was a failure as a CEO, or the nothing guy who ended up in leadership because he kicked massive ass. His family has shit background. But I don't have to for a US audience, because they know the same things from their own experiences.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[wierd_w]

What you talkin' 'bout willis!?

The iBrator has been around for some time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

And what's your fucking claim to fame, Mr. Know It All?

You pull yourself up by your bootstraps or are you straight out of the suburban cul de sac? It's easy to buckle down and study hard when Mama and Dada wipe your ass until you're 25, but some don't have that opportunity and I guess it's their fault for being born to irresponsible parents?

Trying working two jobs, going to school full time and raising two siblings and see how far you get in life, but then again a self-made-man like yourself would have probably just let your sibs get put in foster care so they couldn't compete with you later on (Now That's What I Call Capitalism Vol. 4)

I just wish I could be there to see the look of despair on your face when (not if) your nest egg gets poached by the system you're currently jerking off.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[DoofusOfDeath]

I know a SJW like you hates America, but that isn't what America is about. The American dream is not to get rich, but to have a good life. But you are right, working hard is not the key, the key is working SMART. The difference between low/middle/upper class isn't how hard you work. In fact, the lower classes work much harder than the upper ones.

It's interesting that you define the "good life" in terms of economic prosperity and/or how hard one works towards that end.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[ArmoredDragon]

I've personally been able to build connections from literally nothing and not knowing anybody in the industry I'm in at all, nor did I know somebody who knows somebody. Given how introverted I am, I'm sure other people can do the same.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[110010001000]

Really? It's interesting you said I defined something I didn't. Some people do consider a "good life" to be relative economic prosperity. The superior Euro type would scoff that that, but they have been living in the lap of luxury for decades. Personally a "good life" to me is to have enough money as I need to live and travel and to do things that I enjoy and help others.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[DoofusOfDeath]

I apologize if my point was unclear. Please let me clarify:

You had written:

But you are right, working hard is not the key, the key is working SMART. The difference between low/middle/upper class isn't how hard you work.

The fact that you transitioned from talking about "the good life" to talking about "low/middle/upper class", makes me think that you were implicitly equating living the "good life" with attaining membership in one of those [economic] classes. That was my main point.

But I see also that I thought you were directly equating one's level of effort with which economic class one attains. I realize now that that was not your point at all. My apologies.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the lower classes have limited access to resources and opportunities, unless you really, really like all of your clothes and food to be bought at Walmart and vacations being "I have enough money to take a day off for Christmas", having a good life has a perfect correlation with attaining membership in a wealthier economic class.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Opportunist]

The difference probably being that the Harvard grad who is a dud would not even have gotten the chance to be a CEO if he hadn't been a Harvard grad.

And yes, I would love to hear your cases, because I currently cannot think of one where some poor idiot with community college education managed to become the CEO of some multinational corporation because someone noticed him being so incredibly awesome working the assembly line night shift.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

People looked for way to collect information belonging to other people, bundle it all together and sell it on to be data mined.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[arth1]

Internet connected TV? No.
Internet connected vibrator? No.
Internet connected automobile? No.
Internet connected heart rate monitor? No.
Internet connected refrigerator? No.

So you have recently bought a non-internet connected vibrator and a non-internet-connected heart rate monitor from a company that doesn't make internet enabled ones? If not, you're not punishing these companies or voting with your wallet by rewarding the competitors.
As for TVs, I don't think you any longer can find a company that doesn't make internet enabled TVs.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[HiThere]

No. Being moderately well-off has usually been based on merit...with some race thrown in. Being rich has *almost* always been based on rich parents and good social connections. There are exceptions, but they are exceptions.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[HiThere]

The "difficult-to-attain skillset" is usually just a way to become well-off rather than rich. Exceptions are where using or developing the skill-set is beset with dangers. E.g., some con-men become rich, but most either end up in jail or die broke.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[vux984]

This is a good way to keep someone from using it and then trying to return it as "unused."

Huh? Standard practice forever on these is that once it leaves the store you aren't returning it. All sales final. Period.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[HiThere]

Sorry, but that's a part of the rush into the Singularity. Techno-optimists can paint it as an entirely rosy scenario, but they're only looking at one side of the coin as it flips in the air. (Actually there's a lot more than two ways that it could turn out.)

If I thought we had or could get sane governments, I'd be utterly opposed to the Singularity as too dangerous. But we've already been within 30 seconds of nuclear war, the military is not working on hypersonic missiles, and if we don't hit the Singularity first, I expect everyone to end up dead at the same time. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that the Singularity won't be just as bad...but it *might* be everything people have hoped for.

One result of this plunge into the Singularity, however, is that jobs that take a long time and a lot of effort to acquire the skills to perform properly are likely to be automated away just as you are polishing your skills. And I see no way to predict what jobs won't be automated. Laughing at current implementations of, say, film editor doesn't mean you are far-sighted, it means the current implementations need to be significantly improved...but that's happening every day.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[HiThere]

No. EULAs are contracts of adhesion, and are considerably less valid that contracts that have been theoretically negotiated.

OTOH, IANAL. Check with a lawyer in your local jurisdiction before believing this. But almost everywhere you can't presume that just because something exists, even in a negotiated contract, that it will be enforceable. And contracts of adhesion are considerably weaker.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[fluffernutter]

Contracting may be an option, but the places in North America where you can have enough jobs to support you on it have shrunk big time. So yes you can contract, but then you don't have a choice of where to live. And you had better be healthy too, and preferably not have a family. And the hours.. when I was contracting, I was expected to work full time and on top of that there was all kinds of paperwork to do; and that was a dedicated gig. I didn't need to take people out and network in order to keep those jobs.

If there is a place n the world where you can have a relatively inexpensive house and general cost of living, no long commute so you can spend it with kids, and yet have a plethora of gigs to choose from so there is no worry of what the next one is I would like to know where that is.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[knorthern knight]

> The good old days were not good. In the US, you could be lynched just
> because of your skin color, and the perps, which often included the
> local sheriff, would get away scot free. This is just one example out of scores.

In 2015 or 2016...

s/lynched/killed during a traffic stop/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/po...

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[thegarbz]

In the connected world, everybody that produces any software at all uses it to collect every bit of data they can get their grubby mitts on.

Ask yourself why. This company isn't selling on data for advertising revenue, they are selling it purely to improve the product. If this leads to creating the perfect sex toy then keep on collecting.

Not all data collection can be lumped into the same category.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

I know a SJW like you hates America

No all SJWs hate America,
Not all American haters are SJWs.

Pointing out a problem in the great rat race does not make someone an SJW either, but your post has done wonders to show your prejudices.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. Which college did Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, James Cameron, amongst others graduate from, I forget?

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Ol Olsoc]

The only way to retain one's privacy is to fight for it, as this lady is doing.

Or like - not use a vibrator that's connected to the internet.

The internet is not secure - period.

If you are going jam something up your parts that is connected to the internet, as a way of masturbating while aided by someone on the other end of the internet - well, read the previous sentence.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Ol Olsoc]

In the connected world, everybody that produces any software at all uses it to collect every bit of data they can get their grubby mitts on.

Ask yourself why. This company isn't selling on data for advertising revenue, they are selling it purely to improve the product. If this leads to creating the perfect sex toy then keep on collecting.

Not all data collection can be lumped into the same category.

I hope they televise the trial, especially the part where she has to do a personal demonstration of how the internet dingus works.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd guess just knowing she owns one would be enough. I mean I assume if you own a vibrator that you use it so if I know how often and what settings doesn't really matter to me. Would be equivalent to know if and how I wank it (spoiler alert I do).

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

By all accounts studying finance SHOULD have led to being poor, but these same bright people that caused it had to "rescue" us from the economic crash ten years ago. By rescue I mean convince congress to have taxpayers eat the cost.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[codr4life]

Selling your soul will get you there in no time; if you're prepared to step over dead bodies for profit, the sky is the limit.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[mars-nl]

The Internet of Things was my dreams ever since I got on the internet in the late 90s. I dreamed of the possibility to connect everything with open protocols and giving users amazing options to control their electronic gear.

Finally, the Internet of Things came and it's a mess of proprietary protocols where all devices are not connected with each other, but with centralized databases of the manufacturers. Fail!

Reasons for this failure:
- IPv4 address shortage and NAT (intermediate server needed)
- Silicon Valley greed (big data=big $$$ and everyone trying to get monopoly on their proprietary shit)
- user ignorance (would not buy if knowing how it works)

We, consumers, have to demand products that puts the user in control, not the company you bought it from.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Falos]

Ha, oh man, 2 gets you a peasant's six-figure income. You know nothing of wealth. You see that you have more money than your immediate vicinity and grossly extrapolate.

Your sloth line is a joke. Rabble? Please. By definition you will only ever see a tiny number of people with elite skillsets. Every decade people are playing catch up and hyperspecializing into the flavor of the month and fighting over the shrinking number of musical chairs for the paycheck club.

And it's just worse at the bottom. I hope I don't live long enough to see the extinction of physical labor. It won't be pretty when Prolekistan has nothing to export. You do know what happens to countries with no exports, right?

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Pseudonym]

"Standard practice" does not negate your rights under consumer protection laws, assuming you live in a civilised jurisdiction which has them. (To be fair, providing a refund without a return is a legal option for the vendor.)

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[AmiMoJo]

By the time you enter the workforce it's way too late for most people.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Teun]

I bet them two siblings just fell out of the sky.

Why not be responsible and first get a solid job or better even a career, before committing to kids.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[cycoj]

And to demonstrate that being born in the US does not really qualify you to judge social mobility in the states I will use the following quote: Of the eight countries studiedâ"Canada, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, the UK and the USA, the USA had both the highest economic inequality and lowest economic mobility. Taken from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... Maybe dont make arguments that can be debunked in the most basic google searches.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[valdezjuan]

I've purchased two devices (well, two each elf or the wife and my self). I 'justified' by saying I was going to look at the protocols they use. One of the devices uses cert pinning but I didn't get more time to look at it (switched jobs, so I've been busy). Both vendors are very,very upfront about how much data they collect. I just looked and I haven't put them on this phone yet. But they are most certainly not hiding that they collect data. That would be like thinking Chaterbate wasn't watching who you tip, how much you tip and what your kinks are.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Opportunist]

OK, you're right, in the end, it matters more who you know than what you know.

But don't tell me going to the "right" college doesn't help there.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[GNious]

Please read: https://www.brookings.edu/wp-c...

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[silentcoder]

It's called the American dream because it has never, ever been reality.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[silentcoder]

Consider this - if the labour market was actually a *free* market then the supply for any job would be inversely proportional to how pleasant the job is - and sewage workers would be the best paid people in the country - because nobody would wade through shit every day for less than a billionaire's lifestyle at night.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[reboot246]

So all the people born with talent (musicians, athletes, singers, actors, etc.) get rich because of parents and social connections?

There are plenty of talented people who are rich who came from extreme poverty. And let's not even start with inventors!

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Timothy2.0]

Well, how is she expected to collect money for damages if she just stays quiet?

Litigation destroys society.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[parkinglot777]

Socialism tinted glasses: "well I work as hard as X!! Why I no rich like them!!!"...

Its the same mentality as people wanting to give trophies to everyone for putting in the same amount of effort rather than giving trophies to the people that play the sport well and win points.

[Sarcasm]Yes, and should still give trophies to those who cheat along the way to win points (and referees either don't see or are bribed) because they are supposed to "play well" too![/Sarcasm] :p

I don't really like to use analogy of sports on life/economic events. Even though they are quite similar in a big picture, there are too many differences when you examine them a lot closer...

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

Most professional athletes are born to a professional athlete parent...part of this is genetics the rest it social connections.

similar for famous musicians, singers, actors. they are usually born to other famous people. because they have the connections and know how to get into the business. Pick any random famous actor, chances are their parents were also actors.

sure occasionally others come about, but they are just exceptions similar to what the gp said, they aren't the norm. they don't start with the connections, so they need to make up for it with extraordinary talent above and beyond the incumbents already in the industry.
 

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[cayenne8]

t's interesting that you define the "good life" in terms of economic prosperity

Well...err.....how else would one define "Good Life??"

I mean, a good life is providing for yourself and family, including but not limited to: safe comfortable shelter, food, creature comforts of life and you don't do that without funds.

How do you measure a 'good life'??

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[xrobertcmx]

We also have to figure it is almost impossible to get ahead now. Work hard for 10 years at a company and one day they simply decide you are to expensive, never mind the fact that the reason you are expensive was that you worked hard and had earned a number of pay increases. Find a new job, rinse, repeat. But yes, 100 years ago it was worse, the problem is we are headed back in that direction now.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Anonymous Coward]

OTOH, IANAL...

you should be careful with your acronyms in here. IANAL may be the name of the device she had purchased.

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Dread_ed]

I like how you question the validity of the consensus view of the past, then immediately you assertively declare how the past was, without any question to the validity of your personal view of the past.

Inconsistent much?

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Dread_ed]

"The glass ceiling is in you. The glass ceiling is conscience."

—Jacob Holtzbrinck, The Keys to the Planet

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[rhyous]

Are you kidding. Most Americans are living the American dream and most American's are rich.

The problem is that many have changed the definition of rich. The idea of keeping up with the Jones is real, you just don't fully understand the extent of it and that most poeple are guilty of it even if we think we aren't.

In the middle ages, if a person owned land and had a livable building on it, and could self-sustain them and their family (at least two meals a day even if meager at time) from the land, that person was rich. They were probably a Lord, even if they couldn't afford servants.

Now, we have people who own land, a home, eat two or three meals every day, have their kids going to school, have electricity, one used car, refrigerators, hot water heaters, warm showers, soft beds, plenty of blankets, a couple TVs, a cable TV package. But they have four kids in only two bedrooms (can you believe they are sharing a room) and the household makes less than 50k a year. They can't get their kids phones. Some say that family is in poverty, or that family is incorrectly termed "lower middle class".

If you compare that family to the rest of the word, the way the other 7 billion people live, most in 3rd world countries, then that family isn't just rich; they are loaded. They have way more than they need. That family isn't just seeking the american dream, they have found it!

You see, over time "nice-to-haves" such as a car, a phone of any type, computers, tablets, game consoles, expensive diets, perfect grass in the yard, and many other things have slowly become so ubiquitous that you forgot that only the top 10% of the

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[vux984]

"Standard practice" does not negate your rights under consumer protection laws, assuming you live in a civilised jurisdiction which has them.

You are right of course that warranties etc still apply; but those generally only require an exchange. (And the returned unit is tossed in the trash.) And some places do have a satisfaction gauranteed where they'll give you store credit, or even money back if you aren't happy -- but even then the unwanted/returned stuff is never resold.

Assuming you live in a civilised jurisdiction with consomer protection laws. ;)

Because I'm pretty sure those consumer protection laws are part of what forbid the resale of used sex toys in the first place; along with underwear; open medicine; open food etc...

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Meski]

So she's afraid of her vibrator setting being saved, but not afraid of national exposure via her lawsuit.

Hello, Barbara Streisand.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[thegarbz]

You may want to look up what she looks like before making a statement like that.

Unless you're into that kind of thing*

* I haven't looked myself but let's face it there's always someone into any kind of thing :-)

Re: And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Pseudonym]

You are right of course that warranties etc still apply; but those generally only require an exchange.

It depends on the jurisdiction. If the product is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold, or the purchaser was influenced by false or misleading advertising, then the purchaser is entitled to a refund AND reimbursement of any reasonably-incurred costs.

Assuming, as always, you live in a civilised jurisdiction with sensible consumer protection laws.

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[hucker75]

So this company collected data on how intense her orgasms were and emailed all her friends with it? No? Of course not, they didn't violate her privacy in any way whatsoever. Why do people get worked up about nothing?

Re:And thus the Internet of Things collapses

[Ol Olsoc]

You may want to look up what she looks like before making a statement like that.

Unless you're into that kind of thing*

* I haven't looked myself but let's face it there's always someone into any kind of thing :-)

I'm envisioning a sort of scene like in an early Simpson's episode dealing with shock shock aversion therapy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Except today, they'd be using apps on a smartphone.

Anyhow, this woman is Streisanding the bejabbers out of her situation.

If those are intimate details...

[Anonymous Coward]

Then your sex life is a tragic mess.

idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

You downloaded an app and linked it to your network connected smartphone. What the fuck did you think was going to happen?
  Unless privacy is an advertized feature (and probably even then) you will be sold to anyone willing to pay. You don't even need to real the EULA to know that.

Re: idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, just wait until you are ill and the doctor calls you stupid for the things you didn't know, or the contractor rakes your through the coals for what you didn't know. You have a particular set of skills. It doesn't make you smart and it doesn't mean that she is stupid. Get a world view, not a narrow view of the world.

Legal

[Maxo-Texas]

This is their web site legal.. which says they collect information.

I'm betting their apps have a similar eula but I couldn't locate them (they may only be available while installing the app). I checked the user manuals and the eula is not in the manuals.

http://we-vibe.com/legal

Standard Innovation® Corporation intends to build the user's trust and confidence in Internet and App use by promoting the use of fair information practices. Our privacy statement covers we-vibe.com, standardinnovation.com and the We-Vibe® mobile app.

If you have questions or concerns regarding this statement, you should first contact us at our mailing address found on the Contact Us page or by emailing Customer Service at: customerservice@we-vibe.com.
Privacy is Paramount to Us

Standard Innovation Corporation understands the need for and is committed to all reasonable protection of our customersâ(TM) privacy. We will not share information about you with any third party other than the shipper you choose to deliver your goods ordered on our ecommerce site.
Information Collection

Distributor Orders and RMA's
If you contact us, we may collect certain personally identifiable information from you. On our web-form you must provide contact information such as: name, shipping address, telephone number, email. This information is considered private and will not be divulged to third parties except the shipper if relevant.
Links to Other Sites

Standard Innovation Corporation is not responsible for the content or security of other sites that we link to.
Sharing

We do not share, rent, or sell your personally identifiable information with any third parties for marketing purposes.
Customer Service

If you register on our Website to have access to the "Media and Trade" section, we will send you a welcoming email to provide your password. If you register in the We-Vibe App and choose to receive news and offers we will send you a welcome email. In both cases you can unsubscribe at any time by clicking on the unsubscribe link provided in the footer of each email message.
Agents

We use an outside shipping company to fulfill orders. To the best of our knowledge, these companies do not retain, share, or use personally identifiable information for any other purposes.
Legal Disclaimer

We reserve the right to disclose your personally identifiable information if required to by law.
Log Files

Like most websites and apps, we gather "cookies" and certain other information automatically and store it in log files to maximize your website and app experience. We use this information in the aggregate and it will not be traced to an individual.
Secure Transactions on our Website

We follow generally accepted industry standards to protect the personal information submitted to us, both during transmission and once we receive it. However, no Internet traffic is 100% secure. While we strive to use commercially acceptable means to protect your personal information, we cannot guarantee its absolute security.
Complete Shipping Discretion

If we ship you any product(s), the package will be shipped as from Standard Innovation Corporation in a plain package with no mention of the We-Vibe or product inside. This assures complete discretion.
Changes in this Privacy Statement

If we decide to change our privacy statement, we will post changes here in the Legal section of the Website so that you are aware of what information has changed. We reserve the right to modify our privacy statement at any time, so please check back here.
Contacting Us

If you have any questions about this Privacy Policy, please contact us.

--

Any any case, this case will shake up the legal situation and set things vibrating!

Re:Legal

[Mitreya]

This.

If we decide to change our privacy statement, we will post changes here in the Legal section of the Website so that you are aware of what information has changed. We reserve the right to modify our privacy statement at any time, so please check back here.

Maybe they already changed it to say "actually, all your base are belong to us". Is it really reasonable to ask users to compulsively check the agreement in case they changed it?

Apple Developer's EULA requires our confirmation when rules change, but since they change every month or so and present you with 50 pages of new rules, only companies that have a room of of lawyers on retainer can possibly keep up.

Re:Legal

[pesho]

Any any case, this case will shake up the legal situation and set things vibrating!

You can expect some tingling legal issues arousing in the near future that are sure to give us all satisfaction.

Re:Legal

[Anonymous Coward]

Come again?

Re:Legal

[Anonymous Coward]

Our crack team in already on top of it.

New meaning to 'insider' information.

They are going down a slippery path

This technology is in a pickle.

 

Re:Legal

[Maxo-Texas]

I tremble with anticipation and hope the issue arises again and again.

Re:Legal

[DoofusOfDeath]

Any any case, this case will shake up the legal situation and set things vibrating!

You can expect some tingling legal issues arousing in the near future that are sure to give us all satisfaction.

All puns aside, I think the SCOTUS and U.S. Congress have shown a shocking degree of unwillingness in protecting the public from unscrupulous click-wrap EULA's and other onerous contracts. Nothing gives me particular hope that this will change in the near future. My guess is that it won't change until if/when some kind of revolution occurs which interrupts the influence corporations have over politics.

Re:Legal

[Anonymous Coward]

Clauses like that jeopardize the whole agreement in many states. How can you make a contract which one party can change at will? You can't. That's not a contract. There is no consideration for the changed clauses. That is a promise, not a contract. And, promises ain't worth much in court. I don't know why companies keep putting those clauses in there.

Re:Legal

[sexconker]

Because they keep getting away with it. If you can't negotiate it's not a contract. If you couldn't understand it it's not a contract. If you don't have a free choice to reject proposed changes it's not a contract.

Re:Legal

[whoever57]

All puns aside, I think the SCOTUS and U.S. Congress have shown a shocking degree of unwillingness in protecting the public.

FTFY. The willingness of the SCOTUS to endorse arbitration clauses is another example.

Re:Legal

[alexo]

All puns aside, I think the SCOTUS and U.S. Congress have shown a shocking degree of unwillingness in protecting the public.

FTFY. The willingness of the SCOTUS to endorse arbitration clauses is another example.

All puns aside, I think the the public have shown a shocking degree of unwillingness in funding the politicians.

Re:Legal

[thegarbz]

Maybe they already changed it to say "actually, all your base are belong to us". Is it really reasonable to ask users to compulsively check the agreement in case they changed it?

I would posulate that no, they won't change this statement, because doing so will open them up to a big legal problem. You can't EULA away after the fact changes in the EULA without notification. This is why when any terms change Facebook, Apple, Google, MS, etc all require you to acknowledge the new terms on login.

Also a bit of Occams razor here. They are collecting anonymised information on how to best make people climax. This isn't marketable information as much as it is trade secrets. I'm not worried about them changing their EULA and on-selling this data anymore than I am expecting Coke to suddenly sell their recipe to a 3rd party.

Re:Legal

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't matter what your particular state says but what jurisdiction that the contract is governed under. In this case Ontario, Canada: http://we-vibe.com/legal under Law, Jurisdiction, and language. I'm not sure if a state can have a law preventing its citizens from entering a contract that violates its laws if it crosses borders. I suspect the commerce clause would have issues with it though because it isn't just between states but amongst foreign nations that it regulates that power to the congress.

I'm canadian though so I can be talking out of my maple syrup eating ass. All your vibrators belong to us.

Re:Legal

[sudon't]

Why do you think you have to "Agree" everytime you do an update?

But the woman's lawsuit claims she wouldn't have bought the device if she'd known that while using it, the manufacturer "would monitor, collect and transmit her usage information."

News flash, lady: There are few phone apps that don't collect personal information on you, and try to hide that fact by burying it behind a wall of legalese. Always assume that's the primary purpose of any new app.

Seriously....

[Anonymous Coward]

I've looked into this app as a surprise gift for a female.... friend... (Yeah, that's what we'll call it... "Its complicated" doesn't even start to explain it) ... (And lets be honest... the remote control is as much a gift for me... ) But... you have to make accounts on their site/app on both of your phones (Which can be flaky from what I hear) and then she has to open the app on her phone and then I have to open the app on my phone and they have to sync THEN I can control it over TCP/IP.

Of course having to SIGN UP ON THEIR SITE requires ... ohh I don't know... giving personal information... and her lack of understanding how TCP/IP works (the need of server for both phones to connect to) isn't the manufacturer's fault... it is pretty clear about what it is doing,

I DID however think about buying one of these, using wireshark/etc. to dump the traffic, and see if I could make my own command and control server... that way I could make an Android App that runs as a background service on her phone, a private server of my own, and an app for my phone that allowed the screen to be turned off, and used my volume rocker buttons to control the intensity...

I'd pay an extra 100$ for them to give me the private server software/app... but 'ehh'... this still doesn't seem "class action" worthy to me... because I'm in the VERY SMALL % of people who could let alone 'would' host their own server with a static IP/etc.

EDIT: The Captcha for this is...and I swear to the Gods... [perverts]

Totally justified lawsuit

[RandomSurfer314]

Developers of applications that store or transmit data of this kind need to be held accountable for their practices, need to use strong encryption and should generally be treated like producers of medical devices that store sensitive information. I'd feel sorry for anyone to whom this is not obvious.

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[smooth wombat]

The excuse, as it always is, will be it's not the developers but the suits who require this information.

Which is odd considering how many times on here people claiming to be developers proudly state how they walked out of an interview for such or such reason regarding THEIR personal life when asked, yet these same developers apparently have no prohibition about creating software which asks about YOUR privacy.

It's like when people on here say they want to be able to do what they want with the hardware they have purchased with their own money whereas I am told I must hand over my money to a private company regardless of whether I want to or not.

Funny how when one's privacy or money is at stake it's a national tragedy if it's compromised but forcing others to compromise their privacy or financial resources is no big deal.

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Writing software that tracks use is perfectly legal. The developers broke no laws.

Advertising software as protective of privacy, when it is precisely the opposite, is illegal. The developers wouldn't have had anything to do with that.

This false advertising probably isn't the case here either (though I didn't read up on those details for this case). But my point is more general...developers aren't any more accountable than the sanitation engineer when some other department winds up breaking the law.

Also, suing the developers directly for the actions of the company owners will make software engineering (as a whole) dangerous, forcing developers across the industry to buy legal defense insurance, which will drive the costs of developers up even higher than they already are. The entire industry is allied against THAT.

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[smooth wombat]

suing the developers directly for the actions of the company owners will make software engineering (as a whole) dangerous

Funny, that situation exists in the car industry and yet they have no problem with it since it encourages people not to make mistakes. Although, in the case of Volkswagen, an Audi software engineer has been sued because he developed the software which allowed VW to cheat on emissions.

forcing developers across the industry to buy legal defense insurance

And yet doctors have to buy malpractice insurance because they can and do make mistakes so why not developers? Why shouldn't someone who makes software for autonomous vehicles be held liable if that software is the cause of someone's injury or death? What about the medical community where software is used in operations, to check for medication conflicts and other matters? If your software screws up, why shouldn't you be held liable?

Every other industry, down to plumbing, is held responsible for their actions. Why shouldn't software developers be held to the same standard?

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, I wasn't talking about what was morally right, or common, or would make sense.

I was talking about what the industry wanted. Cheap software developers. That is what the industry wants. There is a huge push for it, in the form of widespread free education efforts specifically aimed at underrepresented demographics, and legal loopholes allowing for the importing of maximal amounts of cheap foreign labor.

So, the level of regulation you are talking out will only drive those costs up. Whether it is right or not, today's industry tycoons are adamantly opposed to anything that would drive software development costs up. So, they avoid taking actions that would do so in the long term, even if those actions might harm a competitor in the short term.

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet doctors have to buy malpractice insurance because they can and do make mistakes so why not developers?

For many doctors, making a mistake means someone dies. For most developers, making a mistake means your web page doesn't load correctly.

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[SvnLyrBrto]

Correction: A single software engineer has been offered up as a scapegoat for VW's emissions cheating. And, unless there's a backroom deal going on where he has agreed to take the fall in exchange for a payout, he will win the fight.

There are plenty of situations where it's perfectly legal to design, or even own, something; but not use it in public. Emissions laws are different in various countries. It's not illegal to write the software for a high-emissions vehicle to be sold in China or India for example. The decision to use that software in the US, however, was most certainly NOT made by this one software engineer who's being blamed for the whole scandal. Even within the US, emissions rules apply only to cars driven on public roads. If you're going to only use your car at the race track; you're perfectly free to pull out the catalytic converter and muffler, and put in a set of straight pipes. And it's perfectly legal to sell the parts to enable someone to do so.

Re:Totally justified lawsuit

[david_thornley]

Developer liability is something of a chicken-and-egg problem.

Civil/Software Engineer: This design is dangerous/illegal in use. I won't do it.

Manager: So I'll just fire you and hire someone who will do what I want.

Civil Engineer: Good luck, because any professional engineer you hire will be legally liable, and they're not going to put their neck in the noose for you. OR Software Engineer: Uh, why don't I just implement the design, since someone else will have the legal liability.

There's also the fact that bridges designed by decent engineers don't collapse under normal use, while software is always buggy. At what level is the code normally buggy, and what level is illegally buggy?

VIDEO OR IT DID NOT HAPPEN!

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see this so-called toy in or about here vagina.

Henny Youngman says...

[Anonymous Coward]

They saw her coming!

Tech problem

[godrik]

> Standard Innovation designed the We-Connect app to collect and record intimate and sensitive data on use of the vibrator, including the date and time of each use as well as vibration settings...
>
> Slashdot reader BarbaraHudson argues that "It kind of has to share that information if it's going to be remotely controlled by someone else."

Does it ?

First of all, collecting and recording the information does not seem necessary for the app to work.

Then, to enable an external user control over the device, you just need to connect the two smartphones together. You do not necessarilly need the data to transit to third parties. You probably can route all the information over tor and never have a clear message given to the company or anyone else than the two involved party.

Or am I missing something?

(BTW, this device give a new meaning to Avenue Q's "The internet is for porn")

Re:Tech problem

[silas_moeckel]

Programmers tend to be lazy. Getting two devices connected is hard with the piles of nat, putting everything through a 3rd node thats got a fixed IP makes things far easier.

Re:Tech problem

[smallfries]

Yes. How do the two phones authenticate themselves to one another on the first use?

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

Yes, you are missing something. The app doesn't have a built in server, so it needs to use a remote server, same as every other app out there. You can't just "connect the two smartphones together" over the internet.

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

It's not laziness. There's no way that you want to have to walk customers through the process - and imagine if their isp blocks inbound http requests? I'd say they're pretty much cock-blocked.

Re:Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it ?

As you correctly surmise, no, it does not. There is no need for a middleman.

That is generally true of most "internet enabled" things. A fitness tracker is quite able to send the fitness data to YOUR computer (in fact, that is how my older one works), rather than to a central server for selling on to data brokers as almost all newer ones work.

Etc. The middlemen are not needed. They are there because we continue to buy the devices that put them there.

Re:Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm...

a password maybe?

I know, it's sooo 20th century, but it's a proven method which doesn't require transmitting anything to a third party.

Re:Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

so it needs to use a remote server, same as every other app out there.

No, it does not, and no, "every other app out there" does not require a central command and control server.

Re:Tech problem

[silas_moeckel]

That falls under lazyness, creating a secure channel via a third party is not that hard.

Re:Tech problem

[spire3661]

Ad-Hoc networking has been blackballed by pretty much every industry player. The only ad-hocs we get now are bastardized versions like Apple AirDrop, fully locked down.. It requires logging in from both parties and a check in by both parties to the Apple servers.

Re:Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming you have a central server for convenience - it need only provide the information that both phones need to establish a direct connection. There is no requirement that anything is logged, and there is no requirement that the server need know anything more than Bob and Alice attempted to connect to one another.

Re:Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Passwords are so old, That is why the new phones have finger scanners to authenticate to a vibrator.
The faster she swipes, the faster she authenticates.

Re:Tech problem

[Swave An deBwoner]

I'm guessing that they swipe right on Tinder.

Re:Tech problem

[thegarbz]

you just need to connect the two smartphones together

Yeah and for free energy we just need to break the laws of physics. Remember the reason why centralised connections first showed up, because peer-to-peer stopped working when the world collectively screwed up the internet's end-to-end design basis.

Just remember this. Next time you see someone saying IPv4 is good enough and we can just NAT the NATTING NAT NAT, punch them in the face.

Then punch them again for me.

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

You have to have some way of locating the other device if you're going to use the remote user control feature. Can't do that without a common meeting point - a server.

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

Who says it's not encrypted? Nobody has bought one and monitored the traffic with Wireshark (or at least nobody who wants to admit they bought one).

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

At least one of the two users will have to have an open port allowing inbound connections for continuous contact. Good luck with that unless you're willing to pay extra to your ISP to allow a home server.

Re:Tech problem

[William Baric]

I could give you the IP address of my phone and you would be able to connect to it without a common meeting point. I will agree it's not as easy, particularly if the phone is behind NAT, but saying "can't do that without a common meeting point" is false.

Re:Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, you are plain wrong. Smartphones are fully capable of making P2P connections and there are plenty of apps that do it.

Re:Tech problem

[quenda]

Getting two devices connected is hard with the piles of nat,

Only in TCP.
Using UDP you can punch right through her hole.

Re: Tech problem

[Anonymous Coward]

What ???

One of the two users most certainly does not need an open inbound port.

Re:Tech problem

[Teun]

Exactly, the only middle man can be your home router.

Re:Tech problem

[petermgreen]

There are tricks for setting up a connection between two users behind NAT with the help of a server on the Internet. However these tricks cannot be relied upon to work in all cases. So if you want reliable communication you have to allow data traffic to pass via the server on the Internet.

Re:Tech problem

[silas_moeckel]

Seen a modern programmer, they look at UDP like it's from outer space.

Re:Tech problem

[silas_moeckel]

Encrypted data vs transmission they may well be using https/tls but I'm talking about real crypto where the 3rd party does not have the keys to decrypt it mealy passing the blob along.

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

The app would have to allow you to enter an IP address, which it doesn't.

Re: Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

And one does. If they're both not getting inbound connections, that exposes a defect in the product, which is why they use a central server that will work without them calling customer support and then returning it.

Re:Tech problem

[BarbaraHudson]

Nobody is going to care that much.

Re:Tech problem

[smallfries]

Really? Explain how two parties prove their identity to each other ("authenticate themselves") using a password.

Re:Tech problem

[smallfries]

Real sharp-shooter here. You've got upper-management written all over you.

Re:Tech problem

[Swave An deBwoner]

My dildo is not amused by your fleshlight's attempt at flattery. [Swipes left]

Law enforcement subpoena

[PPH]

In the event of a traffic accident, they will demand the records from the server to see if the driver was having an orgasm at the time.

Re:Law enforcement subpoena

[iggymanz]

it can also be used for defense, "the records show my client was in her home self-pleasuring and could not have been having an affair at Mr. Klinton's house during the time period in question. The fact the records show she was shouting Mr. Klinton's name after turning the intensity knob to 11 for the first time is immaterial"

Re:Law enforcement subpoena

[thegarbz]

I can't wait to see the road safety ads for this scenario.

Re:Law enforcement subpoena

[misnohmer]

Since when is having an orgasm illegal while driving? Care to cite some actual laws?

Re:Law enforcement subpoena

[PPH]

Meg Ryan comes out of retirement.

Re:Law enforcement subpoena

[PPH]

Care to cite some actual laws?

Check your state for distracted driving laws. Eating, putting on makeup, etc.

Vibrator spyware

[Ukab the Great]

is such a dick move.

Re:Vibrator spyware

[Anonymous Coward]

"is such a dick move."

Oh, fuck that.

Re:Vibrator spyware

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess it depends on the model if this was hardware, firmware or software.

Re:Vibrator spyware

[Anonymous Coward]

That's exactly why we have a lawsuit ya bonehead

IT IS IN THE NAME

[speedlaw]

tele-dil-donics tele...

It's at ten

[AndyKron]

She's doin' it at TEN! Ten guys, try to beat that.

Re:It's at ten

[HanzoSpam]

This one goes to eleven, you insensitive clod!

Protip:

[Anonymous Coward]

How about buying a vibrator with a simple on/off switch and variable
setting (vibration intensity) knob? No microchips, no Bluetooth or need
to sync it, just good old fashioned simple electrical components.

  Really, why the FUCK should someone need to sync a vibrator to
a smartphone just to use it?

Re:Protip:

[BarbaraHudson]

Why? Because they're dildos. And someone told them that this was "Phone Sex 3.0". (Phone Sex 2.0 was back when people had vibrating pagers and would put them in *ahem* certain places and page themselves (or each other, or whatever).

Babies put anything they can get their hands on into their mouth. Adults, on the other hand ...

Re:Protip:

[Anonymous Coward]

Phone Sex 2.0 ws called "camming", now they cll it skype sex, or something like that because "cam" means public cam sites for pay, not 1-on-1 in a chat program.

Slashdot. You had one job.

[Anonymous Coward]

Editors. I can ignore bad editing as long as you report on current news. I noticed more and more lately that Slashdot is reporting on news from general news outlets and not "tech news". This news was reported over a month ago. This used to be a good site for news, despite it's warts. Now it's basically a tech version of the Drudge Report.

We've talked about this before

[Morgon]

We've talked about this before. On its face, collecting information about settings changes, time of use, and duration of use are not inherently sensitive.

However, the issue (for me) is that it was later learned that these reports tie back to a username. Now, obviously a username is arguably non-PII by itself, but there are enough people putting in real information about themselves that it becomes a problem.

Is it worth a lawsuit? Or more accurately, is this an instance where popular opinion of a manufacturer's "should have known better" will override their own stated ToS/Privacy policies?

Re:We've talked about this before

[BarbaraHudson]

Maybe it wasn't on the front page last time? I didn't see it. Then again, I don't compulsively check every hour on the hour, so I could have missed it, same as others.

Re:We've talked about this before

[Anonymous Coward]

I can answer this: yes, yes it is worth a lawsuit, for one reason only: When companies step over a line and start literally spying their customers sexual habits, then its time to get a clear ruling that this kind of behaviour should never happen. The best outcome is not a slap on the wrist, but burying whichever douchebags thought it was a good idea at the time so deep that they never find work again.

Re:We've talked about this before

[Morgon]

It was on FP for me at the time; but in any case, it genuinely wasn't meant to be a dupe complaint. I was referencing the previous story for sake of discussion/lead-in to the ending questions.

The sheeple followith

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to just using a simple radio remote control, like an RC car?

Oops, I forgot, that would not be Hi-Tech, and computer related*, therefore it won't be COOL*, and as the suits know, nobody buys anything that isn't COOL* or TRENDY*

*Funny, when I was growing up in the 80s and I started programming in 1986, people called you a NERD, DORK, and all sorts ofother of bad names
for being into computers. Where was the COOL view of us back then?

Re:The sheeple followith

[Imrik]

Radio remote controls have fairly limited ranges when compared to cell networks.

It kind of DOESN'T has to share that information

[seniorcoder]

No pair of communications devices "has to share that information".
Data passed between my wireless mouse and my PC hopefully isn't sent to Logitech or Dell.
Data passed between my phone and my bluetooth speaker hopefully isn't sent to Bose or Verizon.
This data is sensitive enough that it should not be shared.

Re:Slashdot. You had one job.

[BarbaraHudson]

Well, then maybe if it upsets you so much you should have reported it a month ago instead of bitching and moaning like you've got a dildo up your arse :-)

Re:It kind of DOESN'T has to share that informatio

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mouse and bluetooth speakers aren't traveling in a different city.

"Smart" means "treacherous"

[jabberw0k]

Any nerd should know that if it's not under BSD, GPL, or another free license, and unless you can see the source code for everything, it's probably phoning home constantly. This is what Stallman and EFF warned us about with Treacherous Computing, and anyone who uses a so-called "smart" anything is a willing enabler. Dump these parasites now.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[thegarbz]

Dump these parasites now.

Yeah! Dump all the people collecting all usage data. Don't provide any feedback for anything ever. Make sure these people have no idea how their products get used. They should just develop things blind.

Now when you're done with your stupid case of Stallmanism maybe realise that the world isn't as black and white as you internet freedom fighters like everyone to believe and a company collecting usage stats for their own product development under a policy that states that no information is shared with 3rd parties ever is actually of good benefit to their end user.

Seriously? Treacherous Computing? Fuck it I like to live dangerously.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[ffkom]

"of good benefit to their end user" ... are you trying to make a joke, are you a paid lobbyist, or just incredibly naive? You probably never worked for any company of significant size that offers "web services" or "IoT" of any kind. Because if you had, you'd know that the first three topics on the goal priority lists of such companies are (1) make a profit, (2) make more profit and (3) maximize profit. A topic "good benefit to their end user" either doesn't exist on that list, or might be somewhere like prioritiy (387), right behind (386) "give Sanjay and his friends at our overseas data mining contractor an opportunity for having a good laugh at US masturbation habits".

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[dbIII]

Yeah! Dump all the people collecting all usage data. Don't provide any feedback for anything ever

Sometimes it's incredibly fucking obvious that you don't need the data enough to offset the consequences of someone finding you have it.
This is one of those times.

See also keeping customers credit card details on file and just waiting for a rogue employee or a hack and those cards getting bled dry.
If you no longer need the info and the consequences of having it can bite you on the arse then get rid of it.

These guys are going to be in and out of court for years because they fucked up in such an obvious way.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[Anonymous Coward]

There is zero benefit to the end-user. Look at the Windows 10 situation. Microsoft got to fire all it's QA testers and save a bucket of money, but what did we get out of it? Unstable software, reduced security, reduced privacy and vastly increased exposure to the risk of breaches. Not a good deal at all.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[thegarbz]

Are you just frothing at the mouth because you heard the word data and corporation in the same sentence? Get a grip. Learn context. And relax. You'll live longer.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[thegarbz]

Sometimes it's incredibly fucking obvious that you don't need the data enough to offset the consequences of someone finding you have it.
This is one of those times.

I'm interested in your rationale. What negative consequences stem from someone knowing what vibrator settings can get you off?

See also keeping customers credit card details on file

You mentioning this in the same context just shows your grip on reality. It's an orgasm man, not your life's savings.

Jeesh.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[dbIII]

I'm interested in your rationale

It's the simple right tool for the job methodology instead of the everything open, get whatever you can and never filter your inputs shit that happens in a lot of cases.
Programming as a job and not as a failing mark in a high school assignment.

It's the latter approach that generated bad PR for the recent Pokemon game as an additional example. Get what you need instead of facing unintended consequences for grabbing everything.

You mentioning this in the same context just shows your grip on reality

No it's a very real example of another failure of the same type - an extreme example so that it may inspire you to take it seriously and actually think. It appears that it did not work. Please at least try to understand a post before you reply to it.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[dbIII]

What negative consequences stem from someone knowing what vibrator settings can get you off

Collecting location information is the major fuckup here. It's kind of why it was posted to Slashdot in the first place. I've got no idea why you are writing comments here when you are not even aware of that.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[Anonymous Coward]

Has it never occurred to you that there were industries producing high quality products long before every household had an internet connection? It's perfectly possible.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[thegarbz]

It's amazing how much you said without saying anything.

Didn't justify what data is enough
Didn't clarify what the benefit is
Didn't show how the private collection of orgasm information and the ability to very directly impact you financially are the same thing.

I award you no points for your reply.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[thegarbz]

Collecting location information is the major fuckup here.

Oh, so something not mentioned previously at the conference in vegas, not mentioned in the legal filing, and not covered in the stories is the reason it was posted here?

I've got no idea why you are writing comments here when you are not even aware of that.

#speechless.

Re:"Smart" means "treacherous"

[dbIII]

Didn't justify what data is enough

Obviously that is going to depend on both the application and the data available.

I really do not get why I have to dumb things down to the max and then explain the utterly obvious to you each time. You keep on popping up near me with the appearance of being less intelligent every day. Are you trolling? You cannot possibly be as stupid as you appear to be.

Sorry, but it has to be said...

[hyades1]

"Fire in the hole!!!"

Victimhood has become strong currency

[Anonymous Coward]

See Milo Yiannopoulos for more details.

Re:Victimhood has become strong currency

[Opportunist]

He's great at that. But you'll have a much bigger harvest if you look at the people he pissed off and people who are pissed at him, if you want to see self styled victims, there is far from a shortage of that right now.

Re:Victimhood has become strong currency

[Anonymous Coward]

Milo Yiannopoulos is a dirty faggot.

Is her 'vibration pattern' on Google yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Atfer all, they seem to want to control every aspect of out lives.
What's a betting that she's now getting adverts for rival vibrators (te-he)

Filing suit over something so private must mean that she needs her 15nSecs of fame.
I predict that this won't end well.

No it does not.

[Anonymous Coward]

"It kind of has to share that information if it's going to be remotely controlled by someone else."

There is a difference between transmit and share. Transmit means you do not save that info you just send it to the smartphone or whatever. Share means you save that info with the intention of using it for your OWN purpose. That's the difference. If you are unable to tell, then really it is no wonder privacy protection is so poor among consumers in the US.

Rape Culture

[Anonymous Coward]

A woman in Chicago filed a class action lawsuit against the makers of a smartphone-enabled vibrator, alleging their devices "secretly collect and transmit 'highly sensitive' information."

Typical rape culture.

The headline makes me giggle

[RogueWarrior65]

"Sensitive"? Seriously? The jokes just write themselves.

Re:It kind of DOESN'T has to share that informatio

[Dutch Gun]

How do you think two arbitrary mobile machines connect to each other on the internet (not just locally)? To connect two machines via the internet, you need to have known IP addresses to talk to, and these phones and devices can't act as internet servers, for a variety of technical reasons, listening for these connections. Anytime you communicate with anyone else in an apparent "peer to peer" fashion using smartphone apps, some central authority is needed to at least make the initial connection.

The problem is that these companies often can't resist collecting all sorts of personal information, and don't know how to properly secure the data and communications channel (security is hard), and so it ultimately ends up as a privacy nightmare. IoT is a security disaster, but the public still hasn't caught on. There are going to be many cases such as this one over the next few years.

Re:It kind of DOESN'T has to share that informatio

[Anonymous Coward]

It's supposed to be able to be operated by partners separated by great distances. Meaning the transmitting app has to send that it wants to active the device to a server, the receiving app has to contact the server to find the instructions of when to turn on and a measure of intensity, and then has to communicate to the device. So, everything that she complains about in the lawsuit is exactly what is needed for standard operation.

Missed opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

To have both "robot snatches rifle" and "robot rifles snatch" on the front page at the same time...

"Slashdot reader BarbaraHudson"...

[Anonymous Coward]

"BarbaraHudson" is a troll who uses multiple sock-puppet accounts to mod up her mock-legal-advice; and has been doing so for YEARS now. Good going "EditorDavid". Way to show that you know your way around the site you work for.

BarbaraHudson is a moron.

[bistromath007]

A remote control doesn't need fucking logs, and it certainly doesn't need to phone home with them.

Back in my day

[TheDarkener]

Women used cucumbers, and they didn't have to worry about sending private information to anyone...besides the neighbors, if they forgot to close the windows first.

Re:Back in my day

[hyades1]

I'm told some used to use candles, but it was just the same old thing, wick in and wick out.

Sex and the city

[Anonymous Coward]

... allowing them and their partners remote control over the Bluetooth-equipped vibrator's settings ...

What's the point, some cyber-sex thing? It's interesting there's no iPussy device for out-of-town girlfriends to control.

... share that information if it's going to be remotely controlled ...

So what's the rationale for it being recorded by a third party? Who are they going to sell it to? Will women get insurance discounts if they're not risking pregnancy, sexual diseases, alcohol poisoning in bars;45 instead, getting a cardio workout? Or will insurance costs increase because she had 'sex' more than 2.5 times per week?

"It has a remote. How lazy can you get?", Carrie, Sex and the city

Re:It kind of DOESN'T has to share that informatio

[Anonymous Coward]

Anytime you communicate with anyone else in an apparent "peer to peer" fashion using smartphone apps, some central authority is needed to at least make the initial connection.

Perhaps the issue is that (1) the only thing first required is said "initial connect" to trade IP addresses and then said devices don't need that central authority anymore, (2) one can (and should be always able to) provide a static IP for one of the devices and it can function as a server*, and (3) even if NONE of this were true the use of public key encryption over an otherwise public messaging system would entirely bypass the involvement of Standard Innovation Corp and preclude their monitoring or really any meta data collection other than general "text messages were sent" or whatever.

The problem is that these companies often can't resist collecting all sorts of personal information,

Bingo.

and don't know how to properly secure the data and communications channel (security is hard),

If I have a device that only sends messages when I'm changing the vibrator settings and they always go through my central server, then I might not know what setting you're using but I can log when vibrator settings were changed. This is one of those reasons why the idea that meta data is somehow not protected is absurd.

* Despite your claims to the contrary, there's no reason why one device couldn't be "master" and another be "slave".

Time to fix IoT central server/NAT Problems!

[TheRealHocusLocus]

Multicast is more appropriate for this type of data.
Time to dust off RFC1112.

her usage: 23 hours a week on avg, 45 during xmas

[Anonymous Coward]

More to the point, she must have been using it a hell of a lot to be worried about that data getting out. She must be a total freak in the bed.

Re:If it's Sunday....

[Anonymous Coward]

White countries for white people!

How does someone fuck up this badly?

[dbIII]

You'd think with multiple people involved in developing something like this that at least one person would spot the obvious impending shitstorm if it was found out they were recording this data.

Re:How does someone fuck up this badly?

[Goonie]

You'd hope it, but there's plenty of evidence that sometimes people just don't think.

Who would have thought that programming a car to lie to the US EPA was a good idea? Dozens of engineers at VW, apparently.

Re:How does someone fuck up this badly?

[dbIII]

In the latter case add a lot of people at GM, who got away with it some years earlier, making the people at VW think they could as well.
Having an application that sends info home neither has the same financial incentive nor the expectation that it would not matter if they got caught.

Re:How does someone fuck up this badly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi. I am someone who would make this mistake. And I would be thinking hard while making it. You just might say I'd be thinking wrong.

The market is screaming: We don't value our privacy. Privacy is worthless. Google isn't telling us this; we are telling them this. Nearly everyone is carrying around little computers running software made in such a way that nobody who cares about privacy would accept. I don't mean just "a lot" of people; I mean over 90% of adult routintely testify that privacy is completely worthless to them.

Apple is still in business.

Google is still in business.

If they had failed, I would say you'd be crazy to try to sell a networked sex toy. But they're around, and apparently, some people bought the toy, in spite of what it almost certainly must do (leak data).

When we the people act like we don't care, and then suddenly say we do, it can look like a pretty damn dishonest switcharoo to an observer. If they failed to think, it's that they didn't anticipate the market would betray them in this regard.

Consider this: chances are, the person who is suing over this toy, still carries a smartphone!!! How the fuck is this fair? How can they show their face in court, saying they care about privacy?

So now we all have to figure our where the line is. For a third party to know where you are, 24/7, is ok. It's ok for your "dick pic" to go through a third party. It's ok for a server's logs to show you were intensely looking at a porn site and then suddenly stopped looking. It's ok to sell someone a phone running unaudited software which might be in the same room as them during sex, even if the phone contains both a CCD and a microphone. None of those are something anyone has a problem with. But a vibrator transmitting on/off state changes -- oh, that's too much!

Who knew?

No matter how hard you think about it, you'll get it wrong. No matter where you draw the line: you're wrong. It'll be wrong simply because other people disagree with you. There isn't a true solution. Thinking won't get you out of this.

So yeah, I would make the mistake. My mistake would be in believing that "justice" isn't totally arbitrary.

Re:How does someone fuck up this badly?

[dbIII]

Location info you loser.

C'm'on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Reactions like this will be history when dildos embrace IoT. Get ready for massive deep inspection of packets!

Privacy

[SpaghettiPattern]

Sure, privacy...

Is this toy any good? I mean like in "Xmas present for the SO".

Appologies to RMS.

Oh the lols

[Anonymous Coward]

Bahahahahahahahah!

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[chenzunxin]

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Re:It kind of DOESN'T has to share that informatio

[Anonymous Coward]

Nerds would have a VPN connecting the devices, or some other means of getting around, say, NAT. The other 99% don't.

If your product isn't for sale exclusively to nerds, and you don't want to have to mark it up an extra thousand dollars to cover the inevitable support costs of walking 99% of customers through setting up their own VPNs, then you're going to proxy everything through your own server.

Nerds know this, which is why many will roll their eyes at the "unbeknownst to its customers" part of the claim. We know, without the slightest hesitation or doubt, that if the product is for mass market, then it definitely does share the data with a third party. It's impossible for a nerd to buy the product and not know they're telling other people when it's used. We know this even before we study it and verify that it's true.

It comes down to this: if it didn't share, then you wouldn't have bought it.

But we know it for the same reason that we know everyone else doesn't know it. It does the "bad" thing in order to make it mass-marketable because laymen don't know how to do things themselves. Ergo, laymen might not know that it shares (though many will), even if we know that it has to.

So of course we're confused and ambivalent. It all depends on how you're analyzing it and what PoV you're taking. Do you give highest weight to truth and simplicity, or do you weight what you believe is the mainstream misperception of the truth? And as nasty as I made that second choice sound, it has a lot going for it and it's what you predict a court to rule. You have to share this planet with those people, but you can't always guess what they're going to think. Your own beliefs about what the mainstream believes, are part of the analysis!

IoT Toilet

[Oswald McWeany]

I want to design an IoT Toilet that uploads all the information of a download and shares it on social media.

Today Oswald took a 2lb dump in the iToilet. See attached photos.
- This status update has received 5 likes.

Seems ... response to social media may apply...

[martinfb]

Seems that a response to social media may apply: Put the toy down and get out and MEET PEOPLE FACE TO FACE!

You may find the real thing more satisfying!

Talk about phone sex

[Puppet Master]

Even her phone couldn't satisfy her, so she is sewing.

Is this a kind of...

[Anonymous Coward]

...insider dealing?