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SolidRun x86 Braswell MicroSoM Runs Linux and Full Windows 10, Destroys Raspberry Pi (betanews.com)

Posted by msmash on from the good-things dept.

BetaNews has a report today about a company called SolidRun, which has announced an Intel Braswell-based MicroSoM. Unlike the ARM-powered Raspberry Pi, this is x86 compatible, meaning it can run full Windows 10. Plus, if you install a Linux distro, there will be far more packages available, such as Google Chrome, which is not available for Pi. Heck, it can probably serve as a secondary desktop, Brian with the site writes. From the report: At 53mm by 40mm, these new MicroSoMs provide unheard of design flexibility while also eliminating the headache of having to design complicated power-delivery subsystems thanks to its single power input rail design. SolidRun's Braswell MicroSoM also offers flexibility in RAM options, ranging from 1GB to 8GB configurations, and offers on-board support of eMMC storage up to 128GB. Its robust design and unsurpassed HD Edge surveillance, event detection, and statistical data-extraction capabilities makes it the platform of choice for mission-critical applications requiring guaranteed reliability," says Solidrun.It starts at $117, the website has more details on specifications.

205 comments

  1. Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Would you not want to run a real RTOS on an embedded system?

    1. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These boards aren't really *that* type of embedded system. They're more like smaller PCs really. If there's a simple job that would work great on an old/underpowered computer, but which you want to do ideally on low power, and without a huge metal box (perhaps with very minimal I/O usage) then it's a good solution. Especially if it has to display something on a monitor or TV.

      If you want lots of advanced peripherals, a lightweight RTOS and such (instead of a more "desktop-like" OS), then you're definitely looking at the wrong thing.

      I personally found out I have little use for these things. Most of the "simple computer" tasks I do work better inside VMs (no need for a display mainly), and most of the stuff that involves "serious" I/O and an RTOS is far better suited to ARM Cortex devices.

      I don't think too many people will buy it. Sure, it's x86 and fast, but it's much more expensive than a Raspbarry Pi ($157+), to the point where it's not even targeting the same market anymore. It has *zero* GPIO too (so it's really just a small computer), and it just won't have the community around it which is 90% of the Raspberry Pi's value...

    2. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Would you not want to run a real RTOS on an embedded system?

      Many embedded applications are not "real time". Even those that are, will often offload the RT functionality to an 8-bit AVR or PIC, or an FPGA, and then run Linux to handle the high level stuff on the ARM or x86. I have developed embedded systems, including mission critical hard real-time, for more than 20 years, and I have never used an RTOS in a final product. They raise the cost, reduce reliability, and are hard to debug.

    3. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most embedded systems do not required a hard RTOS. Modern systems are fast enough, that you wouldn't care. Dishwasher, microwave, HVAC, watering system, solar control, home automation, entertainment systems, etc all do fine non realtime. Where that fails is in satellite/rocket guidance, autonomous driving/flying and low level robotic control

    4. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like either your knowledge is vastly out of date or you clearly don't know much about the subject. We don't build much new stuff around old and crappy 8 bitters like that anymore, and RTOS'es don't complicate things at all nor reduce reliability in any way -- much the inverse! They also have great debugging instrumentation making debugging easier, and there's tons of free options too (vendor-provided ones and open source ones). What you're saying goes 100% against every book I've read, every professor I've talked to, every lecture I've attended, all industry experts and so on...

    5. Re: Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Industry experts"...as in, vendor salesmen anxious to sell you their stuff you can't possibly live without?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At $157 why would it ever be compared to an RPi??

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    7. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Answers:
        - Because it has the largest slice of the desktop market by an order of magnitude and likewise users.
        - Because there are MANY MANY people form whom this is a barrier to buying it at all. (see point one)
        - It is a memory and processor hog compared to others.
        - If it can run windows it can likely support the metric shit ton of apps that come with it and thus have more functionality over all (yes, including linux ones).
        - If it can support windows it is likely orders of magnitude more compatible than the current pi.

      So yes, it does matter.

      NB: I have all PI versions and use it daily as my media center and love it. However I would STILL never recommend it to a non-linux friend due to lack of ability to bug fix it and setup etc.

       

    8. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Would you not want to run a real RTOS on an embedded system?

      Not every embedded system needs a RTOS.

      Actually that was wrong.

      Most embedded systems don't need a RTOS.

    9. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What you're saying goes 100% against every book I've read, every professor I've talked to, every lecture I've attended, all industry experts and so on...

      A true example of the "If you can't do, teach" joke.
      Also maybe you should find some better books. Not only is offloading realtime to dedicated processors very much the industry norm, the fact you say "crappy" when talking about 8 bitters shows how little you know of the topic, and the fact you said "8 bitters" shows how little you know of the world.

    10. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by BringsApples · · Score: 3, Informative
      I see that you actually read the article, nice. But for those that didn't, here's why fluffernutter mentions $157:

      The board itself, which starts at $117, will not operate on its own. To make it a full-fledged usable device for projects and other uses, you must add the SolidPC Q4 single-board 'carrier' computer which is $40. In other words, you are looking at a minimum of $157

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    11. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by m.dillon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not quite true A.C. The instructions for those old 8-bit CPUs could be synchronized down to a single clock tick (basically crystal accuracy), thus allowing perfect read and write sampling of I/O directly. We could do direct synthesis and A/D sampling, for example, with no cycle error, as well as synchronize data streams and then burst data with no further handshaking. It is impossible to do that with a modern CPU, so anything which requires crystal-accurate output has to be offloaded to (typically an FPGA).

      RTOSs only work up to a point, particularly because modern CPUs have supervisory interrupts (well, Intel at least has the SMI) which throw a wrench into the works. But also because it is literally impossible to count cycles for how long something will take. A modern RTOS works at a much higher level than the RTOSs and is unable to provide the same rock solid guarantees that the 8-bit RTOSs could.

      -Matt

    12. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by m.dillon · · Score: 1

      I should add, the evidence of this is plentiful. Anyone remember the days of IDE PIO ? Before IDE DMA and in particular before command and data blocks could be fully buffered by a hardware FIFO in the control, IDE PIO was a complete disaster. It barely worked (and quite often didn't). And we had to pull out the stops as device driver writers to get it work as well as it did (which wasn't very well).

      -Matt

    13. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

      Cool! Now we can have viruses and malware on embedded systems. It will make the https://internetofshit.net/ so much better.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    14. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Joce640k · · Score: 0

      People don't seem to have any problem comparing Pi to Arduino, so...

      --
      No sig today...
    15. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like he knows a lot more than you.
      There are plenty of applications where you don't even run FreeRTOS or some other operating system specifically made for realtime operations.
      Process switching and other actions that require atomic operation will introduce jitter that you just can't tolerate in some applications.

      Heck, just look at something less critical like OpenCNC. The idea was to run it without any special hardware, just toggle the pins and sure, it kinda works.
      Users who want it to be a bit better than "just barely working" adds an FPGA card or microcontrollers.

      If you think "somewhere this millisecond" is good enough, then sure, go with a less embedded machine and some RTOS.
      If you'd rather count the microseconds you need a dedicated controller.

    16. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you not want to run a real OS on an embedded system? FTFY :)

    17. Re: Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      At $157 I can buy broadwell with ram and SSD. Like so: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-300-240-Desktop-Celeron/dp/B016K0AAFI

    18. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      Even those that are, will often offload the RT functionality to an 8-bit AVR or PIC, or an FPGA, and then run Linux to handle the high level stuff on the ARM or x86.... They raise the cost, reduce reliability, and are hard to debug.

      And I thought I was halfassing it when I came to the same conclusion for my DIY/hobby projects. Neat.

    19. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 1

      Yupp. Soft realtime is where it is. Even in telecoms we don't do any hard realtime if it can be avoided. It's specialised hardware (including co-processors) where that's required, but controlling it can be left to soft realtime systems. (I.e. Linux on a board).

      The main thing in that case is instead reliability, but hard real time isn't required. As you say, that's for control systems, but even those tend to isolate into specific co-processors rather than rely on much in the way of an RTOS capabilities anyway. You're not going to run the weather radar software on spare cycles from your aileron control computer anyway. It's too important a task to be meddled with.

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
    20. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well so here we are with two opposite views. I worked with both and both worlds have their quirks. The claim that one can debug better than the other is plain wrong - the truth is, it depends :)

    21. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because there are many more Windows programmers than embedded system programmer. It opens up to a wider range of developers.

    22. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's cute you think rocket guidance is digital.

    23. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by mpmansell · · Score: 2

      "every book I've read, every professor I've talked to, every lecture I've attended" pretty much says it all.

      Some of us have been in this game a long time. Decades. Some of us still love the subject and, unlike the more recent crop of 'developers' still care about efficiency and choosing the right tool for the job. Smaller, more efficient, low power consuming and easy to program 8/16 bit units are used all the time, and for good reason. An RTOS does add additional overheads and can consume precious clock cycles and, thus, current. Sometimes that trade off is worthwhile but, increasingly in the world of IoT, the relevance of these 'ancient' ideas are again being seen as critically relevant.

      Given your comment, I can only assume you are still in school or have only just left it. That means that, no matter how good your academic record is, and no matter how clever you think you have been with any little amateur/school projects you might have completed , you are still wet behind the ears and, apparently, quite arrogant. Give it a couple of years before shooting your mouth off as, while not all, quite a few of your elders are your betters.

      PS. Good move on posting as an AC. It might have saved you a few lost job interviews.

    24. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by mpmansell · · Score: 2

      So, even more over bloated, inefficient, security challenging, buggy current slurping rubbish except that its now embedded in a unit that isn't going to be updated because its locked into a poorly conceived quickly hacked to market 'embedded' system. Lovely....

    25. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by jcdr · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should realize that every SDcard, eMMC, WiFi, or Bluetooth chip, contain a processor (generally 32 bits this days) to offload your main CPU.
      Seriously, if a main processor with a RTOS will be able to do all by itself, then all peripherals would be virtual with just AFE to convert to/from analog signals.

      The reality is that toady even small controllers contain DMA engine, interrupt controller and peripheral state machines good enough to offload the core from most of the communication fast low level details. Look at the implementation details of a Ethernet MAC and PHY for example. Good luck to recreate something like that with just a CPU and a AFE...

      Dedicated peripherals are nothing different. Depending of there complexity and performances, a extra CPU/DSP/FPGA could be a far better design than trying to do the same thing with a RTOS on a central processor and a AFE. Not counting that the vast majority of the industry is going more and more toward highly integrated peripherals chips that integrate there own processor, and all of that for a very low price due to the massive production scale.

      Even if your smartphone PCB let you think that there is just a single processor chip with his main cores because of the marketing, in reality it probably have something like a half dozen of extra dedicated CPU or DSP running all the peripherals fast low level details, not counting all the DSP like cores of the GPU itself...

    26. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by JustBoo · · Score: 0

      At $157 why would it ever be compared to an RPi??

      To me, it is clear /. are now just trolling their (dwindling) readers with ridicules 'headlines' and nonsense like the Pi comparison. That comparison is made for reddit or Facebook. No respectable nerd would even make a call like that, well, except to piss of his friends and be an ass.

      So now /. is the equivalent of that annoying sniveling little dweeb who likes causing drama to get attention. Great.

    27. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by JustBoo · · Score: 2

      Because there are many more Windows programmers than embedded system programmer. It opens up to a wider range of developers.

      Given that I haven't met a Windows programmer under the age of 35 that even knows what a register is or how it works, I don't think that is particularly a good thing. Most seem to think that programming for the 'internet' is the only example of computer science that matters. Quite sad actually.

    28. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even those that are, will often offload the RT functionality to an 8-bit AVR or PIC, or an FPGA, and then run Linux to handle the high level stuff on the ARM or x86.... They raise the cost, reduce reliability, and are hard to debug.

      And I thought I was halfassing it when I came to the same conclusion for my DIY/hobby projects. Neat.

      kill yourself.

    29. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 0

      Because a $35 Arduino is within the price range of a $40 Pi; of which both share low level micro controller functions (GPIO on the Pi can function similarly to the Digital / Analog pins on the Arduino). Sure there's significant differences that make a Pi and Arduino board apples and oranges, but at the bottom line, if you've a project that only needs a micro controller that runs a fixed routine that would rarely change go Arduino. If you think you might need that, plus a little more computing power to run an emulator...or to program the low-level directly without necessarily requiring a full computer tower to build and transmit a sketch, it's nearly nothing to pitch a few more $$ and go with the Pi.

      Comparing this SoM to the Pi, however... there's no crossover to truly compare. The price points are way too different. There's functions the Pi has that this SoM doesn't (GPIO for example). The SolidRun SoM is more fit to be a low-end desktop replacement than the Pi could ever be. Seriously the SR SoM is more fit to be compared to a low end Laptop ($160 range) as there are many more common points between them, price not being the least of them.

    30. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      slashtard has been a long downhill slope since 2000 - i gave up on it in 2005, then came back this year to take a look once it a while

      it's gotten worse, especially with the politics, eco-tardism and libtardism

      i'm leaving slashtard in the dustin - just like the GOP and the Leftists...

      is there any objectivity and decent business journalism left in tech news?

    31. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      A little more detail than A.C. gave. Honeywell produces a number of IMU's, the most accurate of which are MEMS based, "microelectromechanical"... right there in the name.

    32. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If it can support windows it is likely orders of magnitude more compatible than the current pi"

      Compatible with what ?

    33. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by blackomegax · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But it's not that much better. A 30 dollar device is nearly as good as a 157 dollar device, if not better due to GPIO and a massive community. Why waste so much money? If you want an atom based computer for 150 bucks, buy a netbook. That at least comes with a screen.

    34. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by DrXym · · Score: 1
      I doubt many embedded systems even need RTOS. Devices like routers, set top boxes, IoT etc. just needs to be responsive to normal system events. Chances are they're running a pared down ser of processes so they're not exactly doing much except what they're supposed to be doing.

      If I did need an RTOS I'm not so sure I'd even trust hardware like the RPi to run it. If it's that critical that it works, then running it on a cheap board seems like a false economy.

    35. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would not surprise me if there is Microsoft money behind this SolidRun device. They would be desperate enough to try enter the same DIY segment with rpi and insist 3x price is OK for a rpi competitor...

    36. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      People also compare Pi and Arduino sometimes for the specific purpose of identifying the important DIFFERENCES between them.

      The Pi, and Arduino, each do a specific thing very well. That is why they sell in such large numbers.

      The idea that Windows has any place in this game is an idea promoted by Windows fanboys and Microsoft. Like Windows 8 Phone and Tablet. An attempt to say "me too!". Late to the game, and what do they bring to the game . . . windows.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    37. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by DickBreath · · Score: 2

      Windows 10 for security. Windoze 10 is the most secure way to keep all of your personal information, habits, browsing history etc between just you and Microsoft*.

      * and Microsoft's carefully** selected partners.
      ** selected based on amount willing to pay

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    38. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by xvan · · Score: 1

      Today's 16 and even 32 bits are at the same price than 8 bits for the same type of target and have more support,

      You can only justify 8bits if you have an already tested and production ready product. And even then, if you need incremental development over that product, restarting at 32 might be cheaper.

    39. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      But it's not that much better.

      You have a really funny personal definition of better
      This thing is over twice as fast, has better peripherals and interconnects onboard, can have oodles more memory, and on-board eMMC.

      if not better due to GPIO and a massive community

      It has the same physical layout as an RPi, including the 40-pin header exposing GPIO and other peripheral bus interfaces.
      And you're going to have a hard-sell saying an Intel machine has a smaller community than an RPi.

      That all being said,
      It's definitely not competitive to the RPi in markets where people care about the price difference, that's for sure.
      The RPi really is more of a toy next to this thing, and the price difference reflects that. For people who want an RPi that isn't so damn underperforming, this will be another good option.

    40. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Actually, I apologize for my previous post. I wasn't looking at TFA's board, I was looking at a board another poster posted specs to that *I* thought TFA was about. Similarly priced, quad-core 1.9ghz Atom in RPi format... Much cooler than the thing the TFA is actually about.

      http://www.up-board.org/

    41. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Pi Zero is $5. Pi 3 at Micro Center is $30. Arduinos run from $4 to $40 and often need shields to do what a Pi 3 will do. They are in similar price ranges.

      This thing is five times the price of a Pi 3. I can get a full-size motherboard, CPU, and RAM for $160. Hell, I can get an HP 2 GB Chromebox with a Celeron for $99. http://www.microcenter.com/pro...

    42. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by sanf780 · · Score: 2

      RTOS does not mean fast in my book. What I understand by RTOS is that any given task happens in its allocated time slot - not faster and not slower. It can even take days and still be RTOS. From a consumer point of view, the only place where I would like something like that to happen is in my smartphone with regards phone calls.

    43. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You can only justify 8bits if you have an already tested and production ready product.

      An entire world of devices run from 6 pin 8bit microcontrollers which do very VERY little would disagree with you. Not every every device on the market needs a wifi IoT connection thingy and drives a 256 colour display.

      Then there's developmental differences too, 8bit microcontrollers a dead simple to program compared to the ARM counterparts.

      Everything has its place, even 8bit uCs, even 74 series logic, even vacuum tubes.

    44. Re: Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it has the most bloat. Anything that can struggle to run win 10 can run anything else.

    45. Re: Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that professors don't just teach. They also do this thing called "science". Where there is this thing called "evidence"

      Yes it is true that many critical systems are made on top of unreliable hardware and software. And that's why they often FAIL.

      But using an RTOS alone doesn't solve the problem. It solves some problems. All proven stable systems are always RTOS:es. There are no exception. But that doesn't make all RTOS:es proven stable. Also any reliable software are are only as reliable as it's hardware.

      So no even if most critical systems isn't based on reliable hardware and software that only means that they aren't reliable. The fact that it's "industry standard" to cut corners in order to save money is well known. That's why many industries has regulations.

      For example buildings and bridges on unregulated markets falls apart. On regulated markets where professors and other scientists write requirements for the industry to follow, and authorities enforce the regulations, accidents are much rarer.

      Unreliable software do have a tendency to become a lot less reliable on an RTOS, that's the point. Those systems enforce rules and that breaks buggy software.

      Saying that's a problems is like saying that code validation is a problem because "there are more bugs". No there aren't, there are more bugs FOUND. They don't magically disappears when you turn code validation off.

      Software that has problems running on a reliable RTOS doesn't become less buggy because you run it on a less stable system. It just hide the bugs.

    46. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      These boards aren't really *that* type of embedded system. They're more like smaller PCs really. If there's a simple job that would work great on an old/underpowered computer, but which you want to do ideally on low power, and without a huge metal box (perhaps with very minimal I/O usage) then it's a good solution. Especially if it has to display something on a monitor or TV.

      If you want lots of advanced peripherals, a lightweight RTOS and such (instead of a more "desktop-like" OS), then you're definitely looking at the wrong thing.

      I personally found out I have little use for these things. Most of the "simple computer" tasks I do work better inside VMs (no need for a display mainly), and most of the stuff that involves "serious" I/O and an RTOS is far better suited to ARM Cortex devices.

      I don't think too many people will buy it. Sure, it's x86 and fast, but it's much more expensive than a Raspbarry Pi ($157+), to the point where it's not even targeting the same market anymore. It has *zero* GPIO too (so it's really just a small computer), and it just won't have the community around it which is 90% of the Raspberry Pi's value...

      I could see in being used in cash registers, gambling casino slot machines, and even elevator controllers. At roughly 6 watts power, the Intel CPU can find it's way into car controls and vehicle management systems.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    47. Re:Why is Windows 10 the benchmark? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Yup. RT means guaranteed deadlines and determinism (how to get there) the trade off being efficiency and throughput. Turn off interrupts and poll the keyboard at 100hz. A waste of a few cycles every second cycles, but a guarantee that you're not down for a microsecond durint your critical 1ms window when nanoseconds matter. It was much moe important when uPs were 1,000x slower. When doing the control mathematics it reduces the noise and uncertainty injected into the system.

  2. Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Orders of magnitude more expensive. This should be compared to a $115 dollar laptop or Android device, not a $35 embedded device.

    1. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Orders of magnitude? Buh? What, a half an order of magnitude?

    2. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Some of us consider a doubling an order of magnitude. (Due to working with binary systems.)

    3. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't a doubling a doubling?

    4. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you expecting it to turn out that a doubling isn't a doubling?

    5. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This should be compared to a $115 dollar laptop or Android device, not a $35 embedded device.

      Your point of comparison isn't much of a dollar laptop if it's $115.

    6. Re: Why compare to the pi? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      It's like tenning, only with a different base.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or rather a $150 dollar laptop or Android device. To get the $115 device working you have to add the price of another Raspberry Pi 3 B.

    8. Re:Why compare to the pi? by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      Isn't a doubling a doubling?

      And also a binary order of magnitude, as GP said.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    9. Re:Why compare to the pi? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      ln(157/35)/ln(10)~0.65
      So : 0.65 order of magnitude ;)

    10. Re:Why compare to the pi? by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Indeed. While there are plenty of devices in the same price range than the Pi that are massively better designed (the RPi design team is both incompetent and using inferior components because of their tie with Broadcom, see, e.g., the bad networking and USB and missing SATA), this one here is not even in the competition.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    11. Re:Why compare to the pi? by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It totally misses the point of the pi. An x86 board with a pi-compatible layout and GPIO pins (and a sata port would be nice), for under $50 and you'd be in the territory of 'outcompeting the pi'. It is competing against stuff more like this: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/...

      --
      John_Chalisque
  3. When ajusted for the price... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it's not really competition.

  4. Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    >Destroys Raspberry Pi

    >It starts at $117,

    1. Re:Apples and Oranges by sexconker · · Score: 4, Informative

      It starts at $157 because you need a connecting board which is $40.

    2. Re:Apples and Oranges by mspohr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Totally different beast. It might be useful but not as a competitor to Raspberry Pi.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    3. Re:Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      for that price why not buy a netbook and get a free built-in kvm console? I regret wasting seconds of my life skimming the slashvertisement summary in some vain hope that a feature like pure foss firmware might justify it.

    4. Re:Apples and Oranges by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 5, Informative

      From the sounds of the article it doesn't include a case, RAM or storage in the price.

      So basically it's a barebones mini PC, competing with Intel NUC or Gigabyte Brix and at roughly the same price as their entry-level models.

      "Raspberry Pi" only adds to the clickbait.

    5. Re:Apples and Oranges by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking of getting a free built-in KVM console; has anyone ever built a laptop that can act as a KVM? Have a video-in(probably VGA, since that's the lowest-common-denominator and can usually be relied on to exist when you are crash-carting) and a USB slave port; with a button that toggles between normal laptop operation and displaying the video-in on the internal LCD and exposing the keyboard and trackpad/point as USB HID devices on the USB slave port.

    6. Re:Apples and Oranges by omnichad · · Score: 1

      You could probably just stick a display driver board and a regular KVM board inside an actual old gutted laptop, provided you know how to connect keyboard/trackpad to the USB on the KVM.

    7. Re:Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's more having a full-fledged laptop that you can switch between the VGA _INPUT_ and the built-in screen live while it's running, or otherwise show the VGA/keyboard/etc locally somehow.

    8. Re:Apples and Oranges by threephaseboy · · Score: 1

      A few older gaming laptops had an HDMI input port that was hooked to the LCD, such as this one:
      http://www.pcworld.com/article...
      And this one:
      http://www.computershopper.com...

      I don't know of any that would feed the keyboard out though.
      You could build something like this without the Pi:
      http://www.instructables.com/i...

      --
      .
    9. Re:Apples and Oranges by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      There's a laptop shell that uses USB (Displaylink chip), even more low common denominator than VGA since phones are only really guaranteed to have USB as a working external input/output. No VGA out either on Raspberry Pi or this story's computer, unless you use an active dongle. But you'll likely want at least USB 3.0 on the computer you connect the "shell" to.
      There's no real computer smarts inside to have it also do laptop operation, but that's a start.
      It seems not available yet, too.

      Pretty decent if you can get it to work with the small computer boards, desktops and whatnot that you care about but if you need some brain behind it without them, you plug a recent-ish smartphone in for basic tasks.

    10. Re:Apples and Oranges by eWarz · · Score: 1

      No, but there are fabulous dell monitors with this ability. Check out this one for example: http://amzn.to/2cQkbAW

    11. Re:Apples and Oranges by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The eoma68 laptop, with the passthrough card, can do this.

    12. Re:Apples and Oranges by Doke · · Score: 1

      The closest I've seen is a single port KVM over IP, like the Lantronix Spider. Unfortunately, they're about $300, and need a java browser plugin.

      https://www.amazon.com/1PORT-USB-Remote-KVM-Spider/dp/B000OH5MDO

  5. Too Expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A Pi 3 only costs $35. Add in an SD card and a USB AC adapter and it might be closer to $50. I'd be willing to pay $50 for an x86 single board computer, but not over $100. (At some point, cheap laptops start to make more sense.)

    And it apparently needs a second $40 component?

    And it doesn't come with Windows, so that'd be more money right there. Microsoft has made Windows free for cheap OEM devices to compete with Chromeboxes/books. It'd be handle if someone made an Atom-based SBC x86 that came with Windows already.

  6. x86 is a plus by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Not for Windows 10 anything, but having this based on x86 certainly enables one to run not just standard embedded Linuxes, but just about every other good embedded OS that's there - Minix, QNX, Haiku, OS/2 and all other OSs that are out there.

    Is this a 32 or 64 bit platform? Which CPU - Atom? What other chipsets for graphics and WiFi?

    1. Re:x86 is a plus by rubycodez · · Score: 5, Insightful

      plenty of tiny form factor x86 computers out there in that price range

      this has nothing to do with the pi market. zero.

    2. Re:x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Intel 64-bit pentium brasswel n3710l 4 cores @1.7/2.56 ghz. 2m cache, supports VMs, launched earlier this year..

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

      Not for Windows 10 anything, but having this based on x86 certainly enables one to run not just standard embedded Linuxes, but just about every other good embedded OS that's there - Minix, QNX, Haiku, OS/2 and all other OSs that are out there.

      I know it tradition not to FTA, or even the summary, but not reading the title? The title says it runs full Windows 10.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:x86 is a plus by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Actually all a lie. The ie "SolidRun x86 Braswell MicroSoM runs Linux and full Windows 10" is a lie, from the article itself "The board itself, which starts at $117, will not operate on its own." so it runs bugger all and "you must add the SolidPC Q4 single-board 'carrier' computer which is $40. In other words, you are looking at a minimum of $157 -- you could buy four Raspberry Pi 3 computers". Does no one read the article any more, not even the writer of the article.

      At the base price it comes with 1GB of storage, no if you can install a dual boot of Linux and Windows 10 on that, yeah right, good luck because the article said in can run Linux and Windows, more accurately after adding additional hardware it can run Linux or Windows, you have to be pretty picky with language when it comes to those things because of dual boots and virtual machines, if you are going to claim to be able to run more than one OS than you had better be able to run more than one OS.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      There are cpus that won't run windows 10. That includes the ones in the Raspberry. The one here will. For someone who needs a small 64-bit x86, this is interesting.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:x86 is a plus by unixisc · · Score: 1

      This Acer laptop that I'm typing this on, w/ 4GB RAM and 500GB HDD, cost me $250 a year or 2 ago. This SolidRun costs $157. What exactly would one be getting from this that s/he couldn't get from a fully functional entry level laptop or netbook?

    7. Re:x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Much smaller form factor while maintaining x86-64 compatibility. You wouldn't want to stuff your laptop into an access point. Too damn big. A TV? probably not. Just adds weight and complexity and power draw and cost and maybe putting the whole device over the edge in terms of passive heat dispersion, so needing a fan like those DLP TVs. Noisy buggers.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    8. Re:x86 is a plus by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't put Windows 10 on that either, if that was the goal. Also, Windows 10 IoT is targeted for RPi, if it ain't there already

    9. Re:x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Neither would I, but people were saying "It can't run Windows 10" when it says right in the title that it can.

      BTW, Windows IoT core also runs on x86 hardware, as well as Pi 2 &3, MinnowMax, and Dragonboard. Headless requires 256 meg ram, double with a display. 400mhz and up cpu.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re:x86 is a plus by geoskd · · Score: 1

      For someone who needs a small 64-bit x86, this is interesting.

      No one needs x86 anything in small form factors. x86 is dominant in desktop and laptop pcs, but is almost entirely non-existant in the embedded space. Pcs are sliding into irrelevance, and with it Intel / AMD / Microsoft. Frankly we're all better off. x86 has always been a pretty crappy architecture as it always had to maintain backward compatibility. For embedded systems that is not a requirement, and ARM has taken full advantage of the flexibility that offers.

      Intel keeps trying to push their x86 cores for the embedded space, but they have failed completely to provide a compelling reason to use their processors, and the market continues to completely ignore them. If Intel was really serious about the embedded market, and didn't have their head up their collective ass, they would have abandoned x86 for the embedded space and built a new instruction set without the legacy cruft, much the way ARM has. They dont want to because that is hard and expensive, and they cant leverage all of the hard work they have put into x86 and x86-64. The part Intel doesn't seem to get is that the market isn't going to allow them to push x86 because it is not a superior solution, and Intel cant get enough market share to compete with the ARM economies of scale.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    11. Re:x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If you have x86 code that works, but the customers now need it in a smaller form factor, there's two choices - use this, or spend time porting to arm, testing, debugging, etc. It may be cheaper overall to just use the old code, and it's certainly faster. This would also buy you time to port the code while still taking care of immediate customers, if there is sufficient demand. Code is not going to port itself.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    12. Re: x86 is a plus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got it backwards. It is windows which is not able to run the vast majority of cpus.

    13. Re: x86 is a plus by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      So what? And that's not true. It's already been proven theoretically that any cpu can run software made for another cpu via emulation.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  7. USB or PCI-E based e-net? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    USB or PCI-E based e-net?

    The pi's sheared usb for all sucks and can't even hit full 100/100 speeds.

  8. "destroys?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Explain to me how this is an advantage in an embedded situation? Lets see some power comparisons for Pi vs this monstrosity.

  9. Destroys Raspberry Pi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It starts at $117..."

        So this is what I want to control my irrigation system, or to monitor the pans under my A/C units in the attic in case of a condensation leak? (Just two applications which are being serviced perfectly well by Raspberry Pi Model Bs in my home, even without Windows 10.)

        Sheesh!

    1. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      If that's the bar for competing with a Raspberry Pi, try a $2.85 ESP32, or what ever that new competitor is that runs a Cortex M4.

    2. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi by stooo · · Score: 1

      This destroys the Raspberry PI for 4Euros :
      https://www.dlsweb.rmit.edu.au...

      --
      aaaaaaa
    3. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      That's waaaay overkill. Heck, even an Arduino is way overkill for those applications. All you need is a very simple little 8-bit PIC with a couple of I/O lines and less than 100 lines of C.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  10. Destroys Pi ....starts at $117 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should fucking hope it does destroy the Raspberry Pi at that price.

  11. For that price you can buy a good pc used on ebay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got a mobo and cpu and ram for about $80. Add in a modern gfx card and you have a solid gaming pc.

  12. $5 RasPi Zero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I picked up 3 RasPi Zeros @ 5.00 Each.

    512Mb RAM, 10/100 Ethernet, HDMI, Serial, SPI, I2C, PWM, for $5...

    I can make it a USB Host, or a USB Slave. It runs whatever I want it to run.

    I can run bare metal applications on it.

    Or I can run a spyware laden, malware laden, resource hungry OS called Windows 10, on a device costing 117, with the OS costing another 119 on top of that.

    Let me think about that.

    1. Re:$5 RasPi Zero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I call BS. I still haven't seen a $5 RPi actually available for purchase.

    2. Re: $5 RasPi Zero by post_toastie · · Score: 2

      In the US, Microcenter. I've picked up 4 so far. They usually have a limit of one per customer. http://www.microcenter.com/pro... Actually, at the time I posted this, it was listed as $0.99. No, really.

    3. Re:$5 RasPi Zero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As of the writing of this comment:
      Adafruit has them, limit 1 per customer
      https://www.adafruit.com/produ...

      Took me less than a minute to find one. Learn to shop.

  13. model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    QNX or RTos or DragonflyBSD is all what is on my mind, but when it comes to spending money: Amazing1 has my billfold. Pfost Frostilly my ring-0 amigas.

    1. Re:model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by m.dillon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Looks interesting... I've pre-ordered two (both cpu models, 4G) for DragonFlyBSD, we'll get it working on them. Dunno about the SD card, but a PCIe SSD would certainly work. BIOS is usually the sticking point on these types of devices. Our graphics stack isn't quite up to Braswell yet but it might work in frame buffer mode (without accel). We'll see. The rest of it is all standard intel insofar as drivers are concerned.

      My network dev says the Gigabit controller is crap :-) (he's very particular). But for a low-end device like this nobody will care.

      All the rest of the I/O is basically just pinned out from the Intel cpu. Always fun to remark on specs, but these days specs are mostly just what the cpu chip/chipset supports directly.

      I'm amused that some people in other comments are so indignant about the pricing. Back in the day, those of us who hacked on computers (Commodore, Atari, TRS-80, Apple-II, later the Amiga, etc) saved up and spent what would be equivalent to a few thousand dollars (in today's dollars) to purchase our boxes. These days enthusiast devices are *cheap* by comparison. My PET came with 16KB of ram and a tape cassette recorder for storage, and I later expanded it to 32KB and thought it was godly.

      -Matt

    2. Re:model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i`ll just leave this here:
      http://www.up-board.org/specifications/

    3. Re:model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by blackomegax · · Score: 2

      Pricing is more... I can get a raspi for 10 dollars. Charging over 10x as much and claiming you compete in that market is an insult. Especially when it's definitely not 10x the performance.

    4. Re:model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'll leave this here:
      http://up-shop.org/4-up-boards

      And say here that it's x86/x64 with GPIO
      And add here that it starts at US$ 89,00 for a board with 1GB RAM and 16GB eMMC

    5. Re:model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      At launch (in 1983), an Apple //e with 68 Kilobytes of RAM, a single 140 Kilobyte floppy drive, and a monochrome 560x192 monitor was $2,000 (discounted from MSRP of $2,200). That's 4,832.27 in today's dollars.

    6. Re: model Slashdot response (MS DOS-ickies r.i.p.) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds about right for an Apple product.

  14. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yawn.

    Yes, it's an x86 computer. You can tell because it doesn't have GPIO pins.

    People that enjoy using Pis to interface with the world of embedded sensors and for communicating with undocumented chips by bit-banging IO, probably aren't going to touch this because it's a PC.

  15. big caveat not mentioned by nimbius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The board itself, which starts at $117

    and theres the non-starter. Intel has forgotten the purpose of the Raspberry pi isnt to outperform anything, its to provide affordable low power computing available for a wide array of applications. And FWIW if youre really that squeamish about linux, the Raspberry pi will run Windows 10 (albeit probably not much else after that.)

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:big caveat not mentioned by tomhath · · Score: 2
      TFA pretty much agrees with you. If the headline had honestly said it's a more powerful single board computer for a somewhat higher price nobody would be complaining. But as already mentioned elsewhere, that isn't as clickbaity.

      Does the SolidRun "destroy" the Pi? From a raw performance perspective, absolutely. That cannot be denied. Some folks will take issue with that claim due to the price difference, and I understand that point. But again, just looking at performance and potential, it is no contest. If a Raspberry Pi 3 meets your needs, however, then more power to you.

    2. Re:big caveat not mentioned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pointer well taken and tfa ignores it:
      who cares about stripped down Win10 IoT running on RPi...except M$?

    3. Re:big caveat not mentioned by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The raspberry pi 2 and 3 will run a crippled version of windows 10.

      If you want uncrippled windows you need x86.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    4. Re:big caveat not mentioned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want uncrippled windows you need x86.

      If you want uncrippled windows you need to wait for Microsoft to go tits up and release the source. Windows is crippled by definition, Windows 10 even more so.

    5. Re:big caveat not mentioned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux distros for the pi are all crippled to various extent too, go and check. The hardware just isn't capable enough to handle a modern full-stack desktop, and that is fine! I wouldn't really use the word "crippled" though - that normally implies something has been arbitrarily disabled.

    6. Re:big caveat not mentioned by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      that normally implies something has been arbitrarily disabled.

      Linux distros on the Pi have their issues, lack of a fully functional and properly integrated 3D graphics driver being the big one. Anholt is working on one but my understanding is that it's still very much in beta. This limits the ability to use the latest fancy desktops but classic desktops like LXDE, XFCE and Mate work fine.

      OTOH Windows on the Pi will only run a single app at a time and that app has to be a "universal windows app" rather than a regular desktop app.

      Prior to the Pi MS had a version of windows with a working desktop on other ARM hardware but they refused to allow third party Desktop apps to run. This was clearly an arbitary limitation. I belive that the limitations of windows on the Pi are equally artificial.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  16. Pricey by sky_khan72 · · Score: 2

    Comparing it with RPi is nonsense. Its a different and much more expensive category. You can buy 4x RPi3 same price. Heck, while you're about it you can buy a netbook if you spend a little more.

    1. Re:Pricey by Cassini2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Big difference: The RaspberryPi has TTL I/O. This makes it easy to do any of a wide variety of hardware interfacing. This new board only has UART ports, which means if you want to do an easy hardware project, you need another microcontroller, tool-chain, etc.

      There is a definite market for prototype devices that talk Ethernet, WiFi, UART, SPI, I2C and hardware I/O too. The Raspberry Pi does that well, and inexpensively.

    2. Re: Pricey by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      This seems to destroy the "performance" claim. Surely, you get a faster number cruncher, but what about event reaction latency?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  17. This is a terrible comparison. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Equivalent to "Corvette destroys Nissan Sentra". Yeaaaaaaah? And?

  18. Would make for a good router. by willy_me · · Score: 2

    It has dual gig-ethernet, supports M.2 drives, and can include a metal case (heat sink). Some time ago I was looking for a small box to run pfSense - this would have been perfect.

    1. Re:Would make for a good router. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's 64-bit, supports up to 3 displays at once, 2 sata channels, 5 usb ports, 8 gigs ram, 2.56ghz max speed, and a tiny 6 watts max. Oh, and it supports running VMs.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Would make for a good router. by Luthair · · Score: 1

      I think you'd be better off picking up one of the Zotac CI-323 bare bones systems.

    3. Re:Would make for a good router. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      routers don't need M.2

      routers need multiple MACs with separate "lanes" or IO ports or DMA channels or whatever.

      it's all about throughput.

    4. Re:Would make for a good router. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a tiny 6 watts max.

      6 watts is 1000x the power consumption of its competitors

      it competes against ARM Cortex M, MSP430 and MIPS systems that run for months on two AA cells

      and the price is totally out of line for this market

    5. Re:Would make for a good router. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It doesn't compete against ARM. That's the point. ARM can't run x86, not 16, 32, or 64-bit. This can. If you need x86 in a small form factor, this is something to consider.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  19. All Hell is About to Break Loose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this really a good time to spend your money on toys like this?
    3 Powerful Cycles Predict a Global Debt Collapse is Dead Ahead.

    1. Re:All Hell is About to Break Loose by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is a good time to spend the money, before it becomes utterly useless. Fail to learn how the Great Depression worked and what it did to the Dollar, did we?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:All Hell is About to Break Loose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you now an economics expert too? How sad...

  20. "Destroys" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck this clickbait title shit, Slashdot.

  21. Umm... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Substantially more expensive computer is faster? You don't say...

    Next you'll tell me that I can get larger hard drives just by paying more for them; or shovel more packets by telling my vendor to include 10gigE instead of the default gigE NIC.

    Snark aside, it looks like they have a perfectly solid little x86 SBC there; but outperforming something that costs 1/3 to 1/4 as much as you do is 'occupying a different niche' not 'destroying'.

  22. No GPIO? No Sale! by ipb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The first thing I did was look and see what it had for GPIOs with a small hope that it might even be at some level compatible with the RPi.

    None? I might as well buy a cheap mini-itx board.

    While I would love more horsepower for some projects I need GPIO's, I2C and SPI for interfacing.

    This one's a non starter and certainly doesn't destroy the RPi and as others have pointed out it has no community support whatsoever.

  23. No comparison by jdavidb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    SolidRun x86 Braswell MicroSoM Runs Linux and Full Windows 10, Destroys Raspberry Pi

    It starts at $117

    Well then it doesn't really destroy Raspberry Pi, then, does it?

    --
    Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
    1. Re:No comparison by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Well yeah, it does on the raw computing performance front and x86 compatibility if you need that. But it fails on every other parameter.

      Way too expensive and no GPIO/TTL are the biggest failures.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    2. Re:No comparison by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      My Mac Pro destroys the Pi too yet somehow I still find uses for my raspberry pi collection. Like the one sitting out on my deck with a camera module hooked to a battery and solar panel. I'd hate to stick a 3,000 dollar computer out there not to mention I'd need a hell of a lot more batteries and multiple/bigger solar panels.

    3. Re:No comparison by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a $10 cherry bomb could destroy the Pi.

    4. Re:No comparison by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      A cherry bomb under an actual pie makes one hell of a mess.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  24. Re:No GPIO? No Sale! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not buy Edison/Galileo then? those do have GPIO, I2C and such.

  25. Tablet keyboard/case + Liliput mini-monitor by raymorris · · Score: 1

    A folding case and USB keyboard is $8 (designed for tablet use).

    https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-...

    Instead of putting a tablet in that case, you can put a small monitor in there. Liliput is a well-known brand that sells monitors from 7-12" or so.

  26. Destroys Raspberry Pi? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    OK, let's take a look...

    .

    - cost: $117 --- fail

    - runs full Windows 10 --- irrelevant

    - significant (outstanding?) maker community support --- fail

    .

    So that's a minus 2.5 out of a possible 3. Not a fail, but an abundance of hype.

    1. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi? by mugurel · · Score: 1
      It costs more than $117, from TFA:

      Yes, you are reading that correctly. The board itself, which starts at $117, will not operate on its own. To make it a full-fledged usable device for projects and other uses, you must add the SolidPC Q4 single-board 'carrier' computer which is $40. In other words, you are looking at a minimum of $157

    2. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bigger fail than that. In addition to the $117 you'll need a $40 carrier computer or it won't work. Of course, even then you it won't be able to run "full Windows 10" as they claim unless you get an additional 20GB storage and a full Windows 10 licence. Meanwhile a PI Zero is currently available from microcenter for $1.

      So basically, "MicroSoM is better than Pi because, for just 300 or more times the price, you can run a full version of Windows 10 that you didn't even need!"

    3. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi? by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      And no GPIO/TTL without adding a separate board.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    4. Re:Destroys Raspberry Pi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not from commiefaggot europe - WINNEROONIE!

  27. Sure.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $117...Yeah not blowing raspberry pi.

  28. Any laptop, for Linux servers by raymorris · · Score: 1

    If your servers are Linux, you're probably using the CLI, a text console. In that case, just enable the serial console. Grub can use the serial console too. The BIOS can use the serial console on some motherboards. "Screen" is one handy way to connect to the serial console.

    If your servers don't have serial ports, you can get a cable that is USB on both ends. It's basically two back-to-back USB/serial adapters.

    If you Windows on your servers because you like to click on pretty pictures, that's a bit more difficult. If the machine boots fine, Windows powershell may work over a serial console, but if it's booted up fine you'd probably just use RDP over the network.

  29. The pi and this aren't great deals by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    Windows 10 with display keyboard touchscreen touchpad about $100 from any good discount electronics
    http://nextbookusa.com/product...

    Android with display/touchscreen $37
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/di...

    1. Re:The pi and this aren't great deals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not see how any of these are better for DIY projects or learning. This is the point of a Rpi, an easy and affordable board to learn and develop such projects due its sensible integration with sensors, circuits, or whatever you can plug into its GPIO pins. They are not meant to be a laptop or a tablet replacement.

      Looking at those devices posted:
      Controllable UART, SPI, I2C and hardware I/O too ? Nope
      Drivers, possibility to install a custom bare-bone OS, large active eco-system ? Nope. Good luck getting support or even the drivers from the manufacturer of that Android tablet.
      Possibility to act as USB slave ? Nope

      They are not able to fulfil those niche without significant effort or extra expenditure.

  30. Seen this before! by EETech1 · · Score: 1

    No wireless.
    Antiquated headphone jack.
    Lame!

  31. Re: No GPIO? No Sale! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Why *buy* one of those things, though? What's the advantage there? Surely you won't need to run your old DOS accounting program on it.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  32. What about a detailed datasheet? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So does this SoM have a detailed datasheet on how to interface and boot it or will that require a NDA like everything else that Intel releases? What about drivers, are they open source or binary blobs?

    Just looking out for my freedoms.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  33. Are you frigging kidding me? by iamacat · · Score: 1

    The point of RPI is to attach a breadboard to GPIO ports, experiment with sensors/servos and then solder up a project for personal use, or even ship a Kickstarter project.

    This board does not have any GPIO ports, much less a massive support community. x86 vs ARM is irrelevant for this kind of custom code. You are not going to be running Microsoft Word or playing steam games on an embedded board.

    If anything, an improvement on RPI would be better power management without sacrificing ability to develop software directly on a prototype device. Solar powered systems running on Linux would kick ass.

  34. Huh? by XSportSeeker · · Score: 1

    This doesn't seem to be competing with Raspberry Pi at all... no GPIO ports, 3 times or more the price. Of course it'll be better, albeit for a different purpose.
    If you are going to compare to something, wouldn't it make far more sense to throw it against an Atom Cherry Trail CPU in something like a Kangaroo PC or something like the Gole1? Or even Intel Compute Stick?

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This competes with Intel Compute Stick I would say, except it has a lot more ports. Both are tiny desktop computers, but this one has dual gigabit ethernet and an empty slot for wifi laptop cards. It doesn't need a hub either.
      It's a solid-state desktop for $157 (or more if you want 4GB RAM and things like a heatsink or case), the size of a playing card. Crap, isn't that good or useful enough.
      Could be a main desktop for off-grid, a router, a desktop that networks with Windows 98 or XP computers, a dual monitor thin client, a gaming and multimedia PC for a HDTV, or whatever else.

  35. upboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    first off. Good company. I have used their hummingbird and cubox before.

    Upboard might a better choice? its RPI shield compatible.

    1. Re:upboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something you probably didn't know about SolidRun: it's an Israeli Arab startup.

  36. More Betanews bullshit from Manish by itomato · · Score: 1

    Can't seem to block this tripe from the prolific manishs.

  37. Re: No GPIO? No Sale! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people prefer x86. It's also more computationally powerful.
    There might be more useful libraries...
    And yes, it costs you if you need it, but nobody forces you at least to go one way or the other.
    It's great that there's a choice! ;)

  38. I call shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The $5 Raspberry Pi is a marketing myth - you can't buy them

    Also - as the zero's don't have Ethernet (no connector) you're out of luck

    1. Re:I call shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is no excuse for "I cant buy one" except laziness.
      You can even check if they are in stock in major suppliers here - http://whereismypizero.com/
      Sure, you cant buy them in batches ( 1 per customer), but i got mine in Pimoroni and arrived in 2 days.

    2. Re:I call shenanigans by stooo · · Score: 1

      The zero is a marketing stunt.
      The product is not available because the raspi foundation makes a loss on it. I would rather pay 30-50% more but have it available.

      --
      aaaaaaa
    3. Re:I call shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and all the 'social justice' whiners out there wailing and whining about folks selling a zero for $10 or more must not of read about Cisco giving away 20,000 of 'em in Vegas a couple months ago

    4. Re:I call shenanigans by post_toastie · · Score: 1

      You have already been given two links where it is available. Sure, it is a loss leader at many places, but that doesn't make in unavailable. Why do you insist it isn't available? Will it make you happy if I keep buying them for $5 or $1 or whatever and sell to you? I'll take your 50% markup.

    5. Re: I call shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two links that are both sold out. IE, unavailable.

  39. Someone is missing the point. by geekprime · · Score: 1

    That point being that not everything needs a full GUI interfaced OS to do it's job. More often than not monitoring and controlling 4 or 8 variables is made harder by trying to do it with a desktop/laptop/tablet OS.

  40. Does it support Intel AMT? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does it support Intel Advanced Management Technology?

    After all, you wouldn't want an embedded controller the NSA didn't have access to, would you? The terrorists might win!

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Does it support Intel AMT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While this is phrased as a joke, it should not be modded funny. Mass back-doored hardware is a very serious threat, and Intel's hubris will result in a global catastrophe one day. In practice, "x86" is a bug; not a feature. If x86 compatibility isn't an absolute requirement, it should be avoided like the plague. Fortunately, 64-bit ARM hardware is perfectly capable and reasonably priced.

  41. DESTROYS Raspberry Pi! by Ronin441 · · Score: 2

    DESTROYS Raspberry Pi! *

    * Costs several times as much.

  42. destroys the raspberry pi by sxpert · · Score: 2

    what a load of shit

    * costs 4 times as much (157$)
    * runs an x86 (fuck the monoculture)
    * no gpio whatsoever
    * who cares about windows 10 on embedded systems ??
    * no info on power consumption...

    1. Re:destroys the raspberry pi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At this point, ARM would be more of a monoculture than x86 is.. =)

  43. From TFA by youngone · · Score: 2

    The Raspberry Pi is popular for three major reasons -- it is small, inexpensive, and doesn't consume a lot of electricity.

    Those are all good reasons to get a Raspberry Pi, but for me the top reason is because of the community that exists around the PI.

    Anytime I have a question, or if I need to figure out how to do something new, there will be some clever friendly person who has either done it before and made their code available, or someone who will give me a pointer towards getting it done myself.

    Every other Raspberry Pi killer I've seen touted around the place lacks that and so they don't "Destroy" the Raspberry Pi after all.

  44. x86 UEFI isn't Linux friendly. by Leslie43 · · Score: 2

    32bit UEFI support in anything other than Windows 8+ is terrible. Even if you get it to boot it's likely to need special drivers, which no one will bother making (thanks Intel!). This is no different from all the cheap Atom tablets and notebooks currently on the market, looks like a great Linux platform, except that it isn't.

  45. Clickbait Headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TL;DR: that x86 board is going to set you $157 overall.

    The deal is that you can run Windows 10 Desktop on it, not merely Windows 10 IoT core. Plus they talk about Linux, and they completely ignore the fact that Raspbian has every Debian package you know.

    This shit doesn't destroy the Pi.

  46. Compare to Quad 64 bit ARM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think these days that's not true. I tend to use ARM A15 or A53 based boards (e.g. the ODroid below is a quad 64 bit A53 chip for $40) where I want more power. I wonder how this board compares to, for example, this HardKernel ODROID board (Arm based linux or Android development board):

    http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G145457216438

    Then there's the software, courtesy of phones, ARM is everywhere and I've never had issues getting software for ARM. I actually don't know what its like to get the Windows version, because I departed Windows at version 7 and don't see a reason to switch back to its development platform (whatever the current Windows development platform is, I assume its C#+.Net?? But the bulk of code is C++ or C or Java, so I'm not sure even how I'd run it that code on Windows these days.).

  47. Breaking news by backslashdot · · Score: 1

    Something priced over 50 times higher than the $5 Raspberry pi Zero is only a few times faster than it?

  48. It can only be compared to Galileo/Edison/Quark by mnmn · · Score: 1

    You simply cannot compare x86 IoT devices directly with ARM based chips without comparing:
    - Static operation
    - Power usage
    - Bus types and compatibility
    - Silicon die size (affecting price)

    So far x86 devices have not been winning.
    In this case you can only really compare this device with the Intel IoT devices which I believe offer more functionality for less price.

    So this Slashvertisement only serves to google-cache the fact that this device loses to x86 IoT devices and absolutely cannot be compared to the Raspberry pi.

    Make it $10 including the connection board and I'll have a second look.

    --
    "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    1. Re:It can only be compared to Galileo/Edison/Quark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In their desperation to be relevant for anything but desktop computers Intel has totally lost the plot. Seems Intel haven't realized that with embedded systems people don't care if it is an x86

  49. Re: No GPIO? No Sale! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people prefer x86.

    Some people prefer being able to run legacy code.
    I've never heard of anyone who would prefer x86 over ARM when it comes to assembly programming or designing systems around it.

  50. Surprise more money == more performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surprise more money == more performance... ...who would have thought

  51. 4x E7-8890 v4 with 12TB ram DESTROYES SolidRun x86 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it can run 20 Windows 10 installations in parallel, each outperforming the SolidRun x86 by at least 10x in every possible benchmark.

    Some folks will take issue with that claim due to the price difference, and I understand that point. But again, just looking at performance and potential, it is no contest. If a SolidRun x86 meets your needs, however, then more power to you.

  52. At $117 it does not destroy Raspberry Pi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    see subject

  53. intel NUC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    at that price point, you can buy a Celeron based Intel NUC box

  54. If you're frugal by kilodelta · · Score: 1

    For a bit more money you can buy and equip a NUC and be done with it.

  55. Destroys Rasberry Pi? by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    You mean the board actually stood up, walked over to the Rasberry Pi standing nearby and crushed it to pieces? ...
    What happend to normal sentences like "Runs XYZ benchmark 5 times faster than the Rasberry Pi using half the energy" or something like that?
    Is this the effect the US political debate has on language? Probably.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  56. Re:No GPIO? No Sale! by mpmansell · · Score: 1

    LattePanda ? http://www.lattepanda.com/

    I'm currently considering one of these for a DSP/Synth project I am working on. Although that will still have a small squadron of smaller boards (including 'Pis) working with it.

    I love the horsepower, memory potential, and especially the M2 connection of the SolidRun but, as you said, for my uses GPIO etc is a must

  57. No GPIOs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is it even comparable to Raspberry Pi?!?

  58. Flamebait Title by amiga3D · · Score: 1

    "Destroys Raspberry Pi" Really? They had to know this was BS when they posted it so obviously it was designed just to get the flames going. Sad!

  59. Costs to much just for the smaller size by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Costs to much just for the smaller size. There are plenty of other options that can be used, but having more choice is always a good thing, in my mind.

    * R-Pi v3 - very fast, small, low power use, sufficient for media players. Not sufficient for CPU or I/O intensive applications. 2W.

    * Pentium G3258 - amazing CPU, cheap, $60. Add a $40 microATX MB and for $100 you have a reasonable desktop. I can slap in an old SSD/HDD and DDR3 RAM that is laying around. 35W.

    So this is about 60% more expensive than the G3258, uses less power, is smaller, but not faster or as flexible. Space is not an issue for me at home and I don't see this new SOC being used for anything other than a media player.

    I've had 2 relatively small media PCs. Both failed in a few different ways - slow processor (Via C7) or over heating (C2D) and burned out MB. Both were gifts and taught me a valuable lesson. The BRIX systems are $150-$300 too costly, IMHO. Never understood why someone would get one of those if they had a network. Use the network folks. Think of the computer in the same room with you has a display device - it doesn't need to be great with FPS games most of the time.

    1) Only use proven, small, systems with known, sufficient cooling.
    2) Never pay extra for small size when it isn't needed.

  60. Frequency counter on Intel 8080 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once implemented a frequency counter on an Intel 8080, relying on the exact clock count of each instruction so that the four paths through conditional jumps took exactly the same number of clocks. This made the clocks per loop pass independent of the signal being counted, so the 8080 crystal was the timebase.

  61. "destroys the Raspberry Pi" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are plenty of more expensive devices that "destroy the Raspberry Pi". There is nothing impressive about that. My desktop computer "destroys the Raspberry Pi". Of course, my desktop computer costed me $500. Create a devices that destroys the Raspberry Pi and costs $35 and you'll have my attention.

  62. if it runs Windows it's 3X the cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And that has been true for decades. This board has no right being compared to a Raspberry Pi given it's extreme price point. /. is using the rPi name as click-bait.

  63. Starts at $117? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    For that money you can get a decent Android tablet or a Linux laptop. This device ought to be compared with those, not with a Raspberry Pi.

  64. This would be cool if... by shaitand · · Score: 1

    I'd love to see one of these little guys with six cores, dual nics, up to 16gb ram, and an external sata port. With an x86 based cpu they would make beautiful super cheap nodes for a private openstack cloud. Since people would be buying several of them and some companies might even considering building very large stacks on them the volume would allow them to be cheaper than this.

  65. Obligatory nostalgia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!"

    Actually, for the price, you could build a 4-way Beowulf cluster of Raspberry Pis.

  66. Re:4x E7-8890 v4 with 12TB ram DESTROYES SolidRun by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    I was going to post something similar. I would point out that some Raspberry Pi fans will say that it's not a fair comparison. You should compare the Pi's $35 price to the price of . . . .

    How much is that 12 TB or RAM again? And how many thousands of dollars is each single one of those processors again for that four socket board?

    The real point being, that performance comparison of a Pi to something more expensive is probably not really meaningful. The Pi does something that fills a real need. That's why they sell so many of them.

    This Solid Run board is an attempt for the Windows fanboys, or for Microsoft to say "me too!". Just like Windows 8 Phone, and Windows 8 Tablets. And we saw how well that worked out. Late to the game, and what do they bring to the game . . . windows.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  67. objectivity and decent business journalism? by bagofbeans · · Score: 2

    Yes. With noise, as has always been the case. And yes again, the style and intensity and focus of the noise shifts with time.
     
    /., for all anybody's criticisms, is still easily filterable by setting the minimum score for comments presented to you.
     
    So set it to 5, and you'll be a bunny of higher happiness.

  68. I want to see this built: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now that Intel has left the x86 phone market, there are opportunities here.

    I imagine a module (kinda like a swappable processor) that has the SoC, RAM, etc. on board. Another module can be plugged in to provide additional modems and antennas (e.g., cellular access.) Another module handles I/O.

    I want a line of cases that take all 3 modules. One can be a phone, another can be a tablet, another can be a laptop. I even want a TV box and an AIO PC.

    My idea is to finally have a modular phone and similar products.

    For example, you could buy the phone case with a huge screen and drop in a Soc, radio module, and a suitable I/O module. Then add a back that includes the battery you want (slim or huge.)

  69. Community by grumling · · Score: 2

    The power of the raspberry pi isn't that it is cheap. There are $9 Arm systems these days. It is the fact that there's a large established community of people who are around to answer questions and blog about what they're up to. None of the Pi Killers have anything close to the momentum.

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  70. Destroys? Do you even know what hyperbole is? by chaoskitty · · Score: 1

    ...and an AMD 5350 destroys this thing, and a Core i7 destroys an AMD 5350, and a POWER8 destroys a Core i7...

    At $160, it's in a completely different league than a Raspberry Pi 3.

  71. Destroying nothing here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As nice as that board might be, it is almost 3.5x the price. Now if they would sell this as well for $35, then you can start spewing such nonsense.Until then, two devices in two different worlds...

  72. Overheard at slashdot or someone's basement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yo, check out the *spin* on that unit!

  73. Re:TTL? by Gunstick · · Score: 1

    rPi's CMOS is 3v, and TTL is 5v. OK, it's possible to connect on output (i.e. Neopixels) but officially not TTL.

    --
    Atari rules... ermm... ruled.