Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Apple Is Getting Ready To Take On Google and Amazon In a Battle For The Living Room (qz.com)

Posted by msmash on from the living-room-tech dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Siri may soon be making the jump from your pocket to your end table. Apple has been working on a standalone product to control internet-of-things devices for a while, but a new report from Bloomberg suggests that the company has moved the project from a research phase to prototyping. It would theoretically be pitted against other smart-home devices, including Amazon's sleeper hit, the Echo, and Google's forthcoming Home Hub. According to the report, Apple's device would be controlled using its Siri voice assistant technology. It would be able to perform the same functions that it can complete now on iPhones, Macs, and other Apple products, such as being able to tell you when the San Francisco Giants are next playing, or possibly send a poorly transcribed text message. The device would also be able to control other internet-connected devices in the home, such as lights, door locks, and web-enabled appliances, as Google and Amazon's products can. It would also have the same ability to play music through built-in speakers.

58 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. Two comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1.) There is no "Internet of Things", it's an invention by marketing engineers for a few niche products that nobody needs. Tea kettles without Internet will always be cheaper than those with Internet connection, hence the "internet of things" bubble will burst.

    2.) Anybody who voluntarily puts an Orwellian televisor device into his home that transmits everything he says to Google or Amazon or Apple, is mentally retarded and should relieve the world off his presence.

    Thank you for your attention!

    1. Re:Two comments by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's coming. Just like self driving cars.

      I scoffed at the whole thing too since I did it a decade ago. A SheevaPlug (long before Pi came out) and a $70 relay board shipped from Austrailia and I had Text, Web and E-mail control of my HVAC system. It was a boring 1.0 but it worked for 2 years.

      I put it all off and went about my life and started to get back into it and they've improved a lot in 8 years and in another 8 it'll be ubiquitous. 80% of the lights we use every day are on Z-wave. As are locks. HVAC looks to be a RS485 (It's finally made it to residential) and Alexa. We bought the Echo as a 'eh we'll try it out' and it's become a centerpiece to parts of our house. It's convenient and is actually a timesaver. If your hands are covered in chicken from cooking you can set a timer, turn off the lights, and turn to NPR. There's a Jeopardy app that is pretty terrible but a decent beta of what it is capable of.

      Yeah, I know you're listening NSA. You can go fuck yourselves on here too. It's not like it's hard to get out of her range. And if the NSA could decipher twice what she could they'd still know nothing.

      That said she still has *a lot* of bugs. We'd pay in a heartbeat to upgrade to something that could understand better. But I don't want it for the house, I want it for the office and the shop. "Alex^H^H^H^H Jarvis, order new oil filters". Jarvis what is the volume of the object I'm holding? Jarvis where are the kids. Jarvis start the oven....

      If you're a privacy nut there will be a FOSS version that is N-1.5 versions older than what Amazon, Google or Apple are offering. They're already out there. The only thing that's not self hosted right now is Alexa. A Wand board in the basement is running the house. The house has a home page where I can check all the locks, doors kill the lights and check security cameras. Something that would have taken 45 minutes to do before bed I can pull up and check. 45 minutes saved to do *other* things.

      And yes, old tea kettles are fine, if you have the exact same rigid schedule. With Alexa and some Arduino you could say "Earl Grey, Hot" and have it ready in a few minutes. Or just start when you are on your way to the office so it's ready.

      The entire kitchen is due for an overhaul. Every appliance there has pretty much a hysteresis bang bang controller, it's off or on. It's inefficient and has poor temp control. Could you imagine if your car's cruise control controller was as bad as your oven temp? Everything from opening the door to how stuff cooks is a first order thermo transfer function any sophomore ME could do better. Between the microwave, oven, toaster and/or toaster oven you should be able to make a highly controlled easy bake style oven that would cover the needs of 80% of american kitchens.

      And the point isn't that it saves YOU the 0.1$ a week. It's that it saves 300,000,000M people 0.1$. Tiny savings add up when you scale. Semi manufacturers will fight over 0.1MPG savings per truck when talking to Walmart and other fleet operators.

      And if you want to live in the woods and rub two sticks together you can still do that. Amish were left be. No one is going to steal your tea kettle. I can still find VCRs on sale in the store, you'll find your tea kettle too.

    2. Re:Two comments by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Very good point. My parents bought an electric oven range in the 60's, and finally got rid of it sometime last year. That thing worked reliably over time, and did undergo several electrical and mechanical repairs, before throwing in the towel.

      Thanks to the 'Made in China' syndrome, it's impossible to find anything as rugged these days

    3. Re:Two comments by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      The sturdy ol' whistling tea kettle from 1972 may be blackened but it still functions perfectly!

      Because all the ones that failed from 1972 got thrown away. Survivorship bias.

      While others are busy installing updates and removing viruses and cookies from the kettle,

      Not if it was designed correctly.

    4. Re:Two comments by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      Cars offered at least an order of magnitude improvement in travel times, and an undefined improvement in cargo load, over horses. The benefits to the economy were clear and immediate.

      Do not confuse that with an IoT enabled coffee pot or toaster. They *will not* offer anything close to an order of magnitude improvement to either the quality, or efficiency, of our daily lives.

      For this reason alone they will simply be a trifle for the weathy and a fun (and rewarding!) hobby for enthusiasts. What the IoT most certainly will not do is allow you to watch TV for an extra hour each evening...

    5. Re:Two comments by Archfeld · · Score: 1

      You won't actually be purchasing the tea kettle but getting a temporary, but revocable license to use the tea kettle, as long as the manufacturer decides to support that model. On a side note a tea kettle that comes with cookies could actually be a tasty advantage.

      --
      errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
    6. Re:Two comments by unixisc · · Score: 1

      All that depends on how the IoT is set up

  2. You heard it here first by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    IoSTWRC.

    Internet of shiny things with rounded corners.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:You heard it here first by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      By your command.

  3. who buys this stuff? by nimbius · · Score: 2

    Among slashdotters, how many of you have bought any of this landfill fodder? and how long before failure to properly participate in the "internet of things" and "voice assistant" markets along with facebook and twitter isnt considered simply unorthodox, but criminally suspicious?

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:who buys this stuff? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I bought some like 10 years ago (Apple TV), it's in a landfill now.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:who buys this stuff? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      I have. I use it daily. I finally just connected the lights to Alexa and set into reading the man pages for home-assistant and making my config file.

      ESP32 boards are cheap have lots of IO and are coming.

    3. Re:who buys this stuff? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      I have a house full of Z Wave stuff (SmartThings), SONOS speakers, Samsung smart TVs, and a few Alexas to integrate it. It's nice to have it all integrated, and as I go on with my day the house responds and takes care of itself. Watering the garden, turning on and off lights and heating, playing the media I want, even recognizing when I ride up on my motorcycle and automatically opening the garage door and turning on some lights for me (if it's after dark), with no need to fumble for a remote.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:who buys this stuff? by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of that Futurama where the mechanical arm goes to pour beer into Bender's mouth but, because Bender is slouching, the mechanical arm pours the beer where his mouth would have been had Bender not been slouching.

      Rather than moving the couple of centimeters necessary to get the beer poured directly into his mouth Bender exclaims: What is this, the dark ages?!

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    5. Re:who buys this stuff? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      I do not own a Kindle. I do not own a Fire tablet. I do not own a Fire stick. I do not own an Echo.
      I do not own a Chromebook. I do not own a laptop. I do not own a Chromecast. I do not use my phone to "cast" to my TV. I do not own a Google TV device. I do not own a Nest device.
      I do not own an iPad. I do not own an iPod. I do not own a Mac, book or otherwise. I do not own an iPhone.

      I do own a dumb TV with great response times and good picture quality. I do own several PCs, one of which is connected to that TV. I do own game consoles. I do own an old Android phone. I do own some Philips Hue lights. The "battle for my living room" was won a while back by my custom display case filled with Amiibo and some LED lightstrips I control via the Hue bridge.

  4. Echo by SeaFox · · Score: 2

    ... including Amazon's sleeper hit, the Echo...

    The Echo is a hit? Citation, please.

    1. Re:Echo by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Maybe not in the demographic you know but I know a lot of people with them. The Dash is already on V2 and they're selling them by the 5 pack. We're thinking of picking some up just so that I can take Alexa out to the shop or to my Office.

    2. Re:Echo by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Looks like all those links were written by the same PR firm.

    3. Re:Echo by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      The Echo is a hit? Citation, please.

      Heh. http://www.dictionary.com/brow...
      Noun, 24.

    4. Re:Echo by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      No, I'm someone that values my time.

    5. Re:Echo by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Here you go. They've sold around 4-5 million so far, and are expecting 10 million next year. That's pretty good volume for a $180 consumer product.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  5. Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Some things could use Internet connectivity and be useful. Like home security systems, garage door openers.... Let's say I was at work and my kid returned home but nobody was there. He could text me, I'd from my cell phone open the house so that he could get in, w/o having to disrupt my meeting and come home. Or my car could be internet enabled and update the maps the GPS unit uses (to date, I haven't figured out how to update the maps of my Subaru Starlink system) when Apple or Google or Bing update theirs.

    But I agree - the idea of internet enabled coffee makers or fridges or microwaves is a fantasy. I don't need to start cooking my food from the minute I get into the car for the commute home. I can manually do it once I get there

    One of the things driving this is the desire of companies to automate everything, and get rid of the few jobs we have left.

    1. Re:Internet of (some) Things by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      I don't mind the fridge knowing when I am out of eggs, and I don't mind it letting me know. But I very much do mind if the fridge lets Apple, Google or Samsung know. I have a fairly extensive Home Automation setup, but it is strictly an intranet of things, and I'd like to keep it that way.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Telemetry data would be useless - why would any external entity have to monitor the temperature of my fridge?

      As for my fridge knowing when I'm out of eggs, I might see its use if one has a packed fridge - like my parents often have, where one has to be an archeologist to reach for the ice cream. But aside from that, there is no reason why I can't open the fridge while doing my shopping list, checking out what's missing or what I wanna replace, and then going out and getting it.

    3. Re: Internet of (some) Things by BellyJelly · · Score: 1

      You do realise you could get your kid a key cut, and it would be much cheaper. If your kid is old enough to be going home alone, he's old enough to have a key. Or leave a spare key with a neighbour, like people used to when they knew and talked to their neighbours.

    4. Re: Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

      People forget their keys. Just yesterday, I accidentally stepped out of my house w/o the keys, and had to call in a locksmith. It was one of those ugly expensive locks too. Having something like this would be a godsend. Obviously, having it secure so that only the owners have its access would be important as well.

    5. Re:Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Actually, when they say 'Internet of Things', shouldn't the accurate description of it really be 'VPN of things'? Like it would be a network that I can control from anywhere, regardless of whether I'm home or not. Like in the example of being at work but having to let someone in, I could, even though I'm outside my home network, connect to that network via a remote, secure connection, then do whatever I need to within it, and then exit the network. So if I had asked for the pest control guys to enter, I could, when they call me telling me they are there, have the doors opened for them and let them do their thing. But there is no reason for anyone else to have that access or control, in the same way that you don't hook up a printer to the external internet.

    6. Re: Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Also, I mentioned my kid as an example, but there could be other people I need to let in, but who I wouldn't want to give permanent access to. Like home maintenance personnel. So someone is asked to come and fix a leak, I can use this to let him in even though I'm at work, so that the fact that he may not work on weekends doesn't hurt. But there's no way I'm gonna give them a key to my home, when the entry is only authorized for that one occasion. For people who rent, it may not be an issue, since there is the Rental office, but not all homes have that.

    7. Re: Internet of (some) Things by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      Good thing you can't lose or misplace your phone.

    8. Re: Internet of (some) Things by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      You're going to let some stranger into your house unaccompanied?

      No thanks

    9. Re: Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

      All of us don't always have the luxury of taking time off work to be around and supervise those strangers, who usually drop into the home at their convenience. So one either trusts that they won't walk away w/ your TV, or don't bother getting the repairs done (especially if those people are not available on weekends).

    10. Re: Internet of (some) Things by unixisc · · Score: 1

      While it can happen, the likelihood of people losing both phone and keys are pretty low

    11. Re:Internet of (some) Things by Archfeld · · Score: 1

      Or you could say, just give the kid a key to the front door like everyone has for years and years. My car is connected to the internet, and I get an email report monthly regarding fuel and engine performance, tire air pressure and other generally simplistic things that anyone who maintains a car should know how to do. I have numerous automated things in the house, lights, auto watering systems, a proximity opening pet door and the only one that really needs or benefits from internet connectivity are the cameras on my alarm system, and I can never be sure it is really secure, though I've checked it out thoroughly and monitor the firewall closely. When I am home I disable the cameras and leave the exterior sensors on.

      --
      errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
    12. Re: Internet of (some) Things by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      Put me down as one of the people who doesn't trust random strangers to be unaccompanied in my home.

      I can get a plumber or electrician 24/7. So can you if you try. That the random strangers you let into your house unaccompanied are also unreliable suggests you need to find more reliable strangers to wander around your house when you aren't at home.

    13. Re: Internet of (some) Things by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      I often step out of my house without my phone or my keys. It isn't a problem because, like most homes, my doors don't automatically lock when I step outside.

      You might want to get yours fixed.

    14. Re: Internet of (some) Things by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      While I agree with you about letting strangers in my house when I'm not there, the last time I needed a 24/7 electrician, he charged 3X what the 9/5 guy would have charged.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    15. Re:Internet of (some) Things by klubar · · Score: 1

      The failure mode of fridges is generally much simpler. Most over temp conditions are due either to power loss (in which case your temperature monitoring and/or internet is out), catastrophic failure (in which case it's pretty obvious) or someone leaving the door open. For the last 20 years or so, fridges have had audible alarms when the door is open for more than a minute or two -- which pretty much solves the problem for a COG of about $10.

      On the other hand, I really would like a bar code scanner on the fridge so when I use up an item, I can just scan it and have it added to my grocery list/order. (I guess I could use a phone for this instead.)

      I struggle with what my fridge really has to say to me. Perhaps there are a few appliances that are smart and have interesting things to say, but the fridge isn't high on the list. Alarm systems, maybe, but for alarms 24x7 reliability is critical and the IOT folks haven't been particularly successful at demonstrating this. Maybe a thermostat, but except for vacation houses it's hard to see the benefit of being able to remotely control/monitor temperature.

           

    16. Re:Internet of (some) Things by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      On top of this, and in support of your post AC, the internet never sleeps. Once a device goes online the hordes of scrupulous internet users will hammer on the security relentlessly until it caves. In addition to my fear-mongering, I have to point out that digital exploits spread non-linearly: a new exploit can render entire systems inoperative in minutes to hours of reaching the wild. For this reason alone there are no valid comparisons with physical systems.

    17. Re:Internet of (some) Things by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      Nice post, but:

      "Power company could monitor it's status to learn (and perhaps shape) peak demand, which can reduce overall energy rates."

      I've never understood why anyone would trust the wolves for advice on how to secure the hen-house!?!

  6. How? Please tell me how? by RandomSurfer314 · · Score: 1

    How can I get the latest apps on my Internet-enabled milk package in my mom's basement without leaving the basement? Does anybody know how? Can I use my magic golden Apple bracelet for it?

    1. Re:How? Please tell me how? by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      How much for the magic golden Apple bracelet?

    2. Re:How? Please tell me how? by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      Raise the dead? We could bring the real Steve back.

  7. But can it control apple tv? by sims+2 · · Score: 1

    I was considering buying a echo dot but discovered it couldn't control the fire tv.

    Will apple have better luck making their own stuff work together?

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    1. Re:But can it control apple tv? by sh00z · · Score: 1

      I was considering buying a echo dot but discovered it couldn't control the fire tv.

      Will apple have better luck making their own stuff work together?

      I'm guessing yes, because the new "Home" app in iOS 10 is like an IoT control center, and some of these "hub" features were put into the TVOS update, and iOS10 for iPad.

  8. Re:Not My Living Room by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    That's right. I only trust my cable company.

  9. Smart enough to know which Siri? by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

    If they're going to do this, I'd like to see if they can do better than Microsoft (low bar, I know).

    Right now, if I happen to be on my Win10 laptop while watching Netflix on the Xbox One, I could say "Hey Cortana, pause!".

    The Xbox One pauses the show.

    The laptop says "I'm sorry, but I can't do that right now."

    It is like they really didn't expect any Xbox One owners to have a Windows 10 laptop.

    --
    Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    1. Re:Smart enough to know which Siri? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Heh! I can imagine the Siris on my iPad, iPhone, and iWatch all saying "I don't understand what you just said" in unison.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  10. Echo is NOT a hit by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    These stories are always submitted by "Anonymous" claiming obliquely that the Echo is a "sleeper hit". There are a lot of "research" companies that claim that Amazon has sold a bunch too. All lies.
    Notice these two links ALSO claim a "sleeper hit" (exact words):

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/...
    https://www.theguardian.com/te...

    I call PR bullshit here. I doubt they have sold many Echos at all.

    1. Re:Echo is NOT a hit by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Presumably, somewhere around 3 million have sold. Is that a lot? I have no idea, ha. Seems decent? At, say, an average price of $170, that's about $500 million in revenue.

  11. Kitchen IoT by unixisc · · Score: 1

    As far as the kitchen goes, if kitchen IoT could tell me that the rotisserie chicken I'm preparing in the oven is getting overcooked or burnt, I can see the use. In fact, if IoT allows the oven to warn me about it burning while I'm busy watching videos on my iPad, that's pretty useful - that way, I can watch the whole thing w/o interrupting myself to go and turn off the oven, or remove the hen. But some of the things that have been promoted - like an alarm clock being used to trigger my coffee machine when I wake up - is pretty worthless.

    1. Re:Kitchen IoT by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      You have to start somewhere. 90% of the stuff I see coming to the kitchen is still pieced together as wires. It's companies scrambling to find a market for their old appliances without asking what people need. Get a bunch of cheap dev kits to aspiring cooks that can program and see what shakes out in 5-10 years. I just got MicroPython on a $3 board. That's damn amazing in my book growing up longing for a dev kit I could afford on my birthday money.

      The IoT can do that, and more. You pull a frozen turkey from the freezer, put it into the cooking appliance. It weighs it, texts you asking how you want it done and then ramp soaks the perfect cooking profile and you get a text message when it's done. All of the pieces exist they just need pieced together.

      Compare 'now' to 1980s. This all is going to look that much different in 2052.

  12. Of course... by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

    This will mean that Apple will necessarily have to interoperate with other home automation systems.... It seems unlikely to me for some reason...

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  13. Already tried and lost by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Apple tried several times - and lost (speakers, various TV and media servers, etc). The only way they become relevant in the living room is if they buy a major player in the living room, like Netflix (content) or SONOS (audio delivery) or Vizio (video delivery). Short of that - they're not going to make headway.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  14. Getting ready? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    The first time I heard this story was in 1995 or so. I'm sure we've heard it for longer than that. Apple was getting ready to take on the living room, fighting with Microsoft. We heard it again, over and over (the fight for the living room between Wii/Xbox/Playstation).

    At the end of the day, no one is going to want ads on their thermostat.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  15. Re:"Sleeper hit"? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    That's about the same sales pace as Apple TV, annually. So I assume that if the Echo isn't a hit - neither is the Apple TV. Which doesn't bode well for Apple's play into the living room...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  16. Is getting up to search the Internet that hard? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    I really don't get why, other than perhaps for the novelty factor, you'd want something that's only voice activated, that furthermore is surveilling every sound in your house the entire time it's plugged in? Honestly, is it really that much of an inconvenience in 2016 for people to get up and go to their computer (or grab their tablet, or their phone, or their laptop) and look things up on an Internet search engine? Or start some music? Or send an email? Honestly, have people become so lazy?

  17. So what you're saying is.. by kuzb · · Score: 1

    ....apple is about to introduce some absurdly overpriced thing with a market that has absurdly overpriced content.

    What you're really telling me is that Apple is getting ready to set sail for fail.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  18. Re:That's it! by NotAPK · · Score: 1

    Why, is Doctor Who coming in to land?