Microsoft Bungles This Week's Windows 10 Anniversary Update (zdnet.com)

An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes ZDNet: Microsoft rolled out this week the seventh Cumulative Update of fixes to Windows 10 Anniversary Update since the Anniversary version of Windows 10 began going to customers on August 2...causing installation issues for some users. I don't know how many are affected -- it's definitely nowhere near "all" -- but reports are coming in on Twitter and in Microsoft support forums from those who can't install the update, resulting (at least for some) in an endless loop of repeated attempts...

But a few of those affected have pointed out that when Microsoft first delivered this update to its "Release Preview" ring of Insider testers at the start of this week, some testers reported the installation failure/reboot issue. Despite those reports, Microsoft still pushed this update out to those not in the Insider program... Unsurprisingly, this issue is triggering a round of "What's the point of Insider testing?" questions. It looks to some like Microsoft is just ignoring Insider feedback...
Paul Thurrott reports that the problems are "widespread... Microsoft is pushing the idea that you should always patch your machine on the day the update is released as they often release security patches that fix vulnerabilities. But, until the company can get a handle on their quality control issues...it feels like every time you run Windows update you are rolling the dice."

Comments

Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Why not just wait? If you don't surf questionable sites, have an up-to-date av program, and everything's working ok, why not just leave well enough alone and let the suckers take the hit? You don't see businesses rushing to update for a reason - and that reason is the topic of this story - it often breaks sh*t.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just try to do no updates if you are using Windows 10 Home or Pro version (without pulling the network connection obviously)...

Good luck with that...

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it autoinstalls? Two choices: install immediately, or schedule within 24 hours.
Clearly it is Trumps fault, and his racist deplorable supporters.
Say no to hate: auto-update!

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have a choice with Windows 10 home. You can't turn off updates.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't see businesses rushing to update for a reason - and that reason is the topic of this story - it often breaks sh*t.

But . . . but . . . but . . . Microsoft knows best!! That's why they took are perfectly stable and usable OS (Windows 7) and made a few thousand pointless changes. Your work PC really NEEDS to look like a phone and NEEDS a couple dozen useless "apps". You're just a Microsoft hater who doesn't get it.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Ol Olsoc]

You don't have a choice with Windows 10 home. You can't turn off updates.

Nor do you with W10 pro. The pseudo choice you have with W10 Pro is that you can only delay the Bohica updates for a little while. So it's like your computer gets fucked up a little later.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[WheezyJoe]

NOT (quite) CORRECT. You can defer updates in the PRO version.
Settings-->Update & Security-->Windows Update--> Advanced options-->Defer Upgrades
Been working for me for months, whereas my one guinea-pig system that I didn't switch did upgrade eventually.
Security updates continued to come through.

Why they don't offer Defer Upgrades in the Home version is... I don't know. Cockiness. Force features on the Home-version Plebes.
Why they don't vet these updates better is... bizarre.
Apple pushed out five (I think) public betas before releasing Sierra, and the only thing I've noticed wrong is they yanked out PPTP VPN (they sent out warnings, but I didn't get the memo). Maybe the right thing to do, but it still messed me up. OTOH, I yelled at M$ through the Insider Program that their latest wasn't installing, and DID THEY LISTEN? If they'd only just do exactly what I tell them exactly when I say at all times... but noooooooooooo, 'cause we're Microsoft and we all went to Harvard we want to get into CELL PHONES 'cuz Uncle Pewterschmidt says that's where the money is!

Hey, Microsoft, if you that CEO position becomes vacant again, gimme a call. Fix everything, for 1/10 what you pay Satya. Maybe 1/3. We'll talk.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[wjcofkc]

I saw all the "You don't have a choice with Win 10!". I have the option "Update and Restart". I guess because I dropped a couple extra $$ on pro? It's not exactly freedom but comparatively speaking. Anyway, if you want to jump through the computer nerd hoops it is possible to deactivate Windows 10 while keeping it functional (unless you really need to change your wallpaper) sit things out then reactivate and update.








A bit offtopic: yes that show is tragically exploitative.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Ol Olsoc]

Why not just wait? If you don't surf questionable sites, have an up-to-date av program, and everything's working ok, why not just leave well enough alone and let the suckers take the hit? You don't see businesses rushing to update for a reason - and that reason is the topic of this story - it often breaks sh*t.

Come on Barbara, the only place I've received malware on a pc is while going to consumer sites. Can't figure out what's questionable about garage door openers or concrete tips (yup, both of those were spreading malware) or surfing Forbes is a malware vector as well.

As well, you buy a new computer these days - what comes on it? Yup, W10. Windows 10 downloaded without permission on computers, It had microsoft-ese on the popup screens that got people to "accidentally install it. On my W7 install, a blank screen would pop up, and anywhere you clicked in it it tried to install W10. Eventually I had to go into task manager to kill the strange blank windows that would pop up. This was an all out timeshare salesman like approach that had a lot of people install accidentally.

So please don't take the victim blaming approach here. No one should buy a computer knowing that it will get screwed up, or have an accident that installs the screwed up OS. Business is not supposed to take the Carny vs rube attitude Microsoft has taken to their customers.

Meanwhile, after abandoning W10 and staying on my W7 install, despite Microsoft trying to trick me, I've disabled updates, and approach 100 percent uptime. Life is gooder!

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

So set the internet connection to Airplane mode. For those times you need the net, just boot linux off an external device. Or make it into a dual-boot (which you should be doing anyway, for your own safety). Problem solved. You're going to have to do it in a 2025 anyway (extended support ends) or 2020 (mainstream support ends).

They've already said this will be the last version they sell - so unless you want to rent your operating system ...

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Put your wireless into airplane mode, or otherwise disable the internet connection. Boot another OS (or an earlier version of Windows) off another partition or external media or USB drive (there are plenty of HOWTOs explaining how to make a portable Windows install if you really must).

Re:Why does anyone update?

[WarJolt]

Windows 10 Enterprise is the only edition that supports LTSB. Basically, Microsoft wants everyone to pay an additional licensing cost and throw out their original Windows 10 license for the privilege of not being part of their continuous deployment. I believe agile can work for operating systems, but Windows 10 home/pro/IoT/Mobile editions are guinea pigs while Microsoft figures out how to do it. You will get burned until Microsoft adapts to this new methodology of development, deployment and testing.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[whoever57]

If you don't surf questionable sites,

Yes, because no one has ever pushed a malicious ad into an ad network and got the ads published on big-name sites.

have an up-to-date av program

Everyone knows that AV detection rates are all less than 100%.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Sure you have a choice. The forced updates require a working internet connection. Disable it in Windows 10, and either boot another version of Windows or another OS off either another partition or an external device (DVD or USB). It's not THAT hard to install Linux or BSD for when you need the net.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't surf questionable sites, have an up-to-date av program...

Can you recommend a good AV that will protect you against 0-days ?

And as for "questionable sites", how many times in the past few years have you heard of "legit" sites being hacked and serving up malware. I guess even the BBC must count as questionable to you ?

Put the two together and your advice falls over.
Once MS release a patch, it's quickly taken apart to find what holes MS have tried to close, new 0-days emerge to take advantage of people who haven't patched yet.

I agree though, it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils thesedays.
Do you run the risk of malware getting onto your system, or do you take a gamble that MS's latest update won't fuck it up somehow ?

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Your work PC really NEEDS to look like a phone and NEEDS a couple dozen useless "apps".

Retired early for health reasons, you insensitive clod! :-)

Re:Why does anyone update?

[spire3661]

Defer Upgrades is too nebulous to mean anything. I want more control over the process. Even if you have defer upgrades on, MS can override it for a critical security patch. The plain fact is we have lost complete control over the machine at this point. You can no longer use the consumer OS to run anything 24/7 without risking random reboots. MS decides when and how your computer updates now.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just wait?

In my case I was ambushed. I woke my main Win 10 Pro desktop from sleep on Friday morning and it immediately started the upgrade process. I was never asked for confirmation or given an opportunity to defer.

No, I hadn't set 'Defer Updates.' I suppose I naively assumed any time an OS is going to embark on something that involves multiple reboots — losing whatever work is outstanding — I'll be given the courtesy of a confirmation... I was just thankful I didn't have an important meeting or something else scheduled at the time as the whole rigmarole took 30 minutes.

Anyhow, defer updates is set now... I guess we'll see whether they actually honor it.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

While it happens, it's not all that often, and I think it's worth the risk of "maybe" getting hit with malware but your computer still runs as opposed to definitely getting hit with the update and "maybe" being stuck with a non-bootable brick.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they'd only just do exactly what I tell them exactly when I say at all times...

You should hold your breath until they comply.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[The Real Dr John]

It is absurd to say this when you know many Windows users (Home version) cannot "wait". Stop making excuses for Microsoft's heavy handed, tin-eared, don't give a shit about customers attitude. There is no excuse for them taking all control away from users. If they did their jobs right, no one would even be talking about this, but they botch their updates virtually every time now. When you are batting zero, you should probably consider giving control back to customers so they can actually get work done on their computers without worrying about Microsoft crashing their computer with a compulsory update... that doesn't work. Sticking with Windows 7 Ultimate. No reason to downgrade to Windows 10, and lots of reasons not to.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[thegarbz]

Why not just wait?

Because living with security holes is risky.

You don't see businesses rushing to update for a reason

Which is of little comfort to the many millions of people who have their credentials stolen due to poor security practices.

Now admittedly this won't fix everything. If anything it's fixes are minor. But the real solution is to ensure that you can roll out security updates that don't break shit and install without issue. Why is this a problem with Windows and not with Ubuntu? I've never had a security update hose an Ubuntu system or even fail to install.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[DworkinLV]

There are many other choices that are easier to handle than cutting off your internet. Blocking the update IPs in Windows Firewall and/or Internet Edge routers (IE Linux NAT boxes). I personally block MS Telemetry, Store and other services I don't use at the Linux NAT. Works great but causes Win 10 to throw up dozens of events per week about connection attempts. I believe if MS wants to remove the choice then can, but they MUST accept LIABILITY if they break peoples machines. Let the class action lawsuit limit their theft of ownership of my and others computers.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[thegarbz]

Yeah. I mean it's just an OS. If you have problems just [insert long winded technical details here] and then you should be all good to use your computer.

This is the shit we mocked Linux about for many years, and now it seems that doing basic things like keeping your computer running is easier on Linux than Windows 10.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

This is not the days of Win95, when people were pissing their pants lining up to be the first to buy 10 copies at a time. There was enough warning that if anyone had asked someone with a clue, or don a half-assed search on the internet, they would have turned updates off and still be running an older version (it's safe to turn updates back on now, just make sure you have everything set to manual so you control when and what.

If you decided to be willfully stupid, well, now they've learned your lesson and you'll be more careful next time.

They also had a month in which to revert the upgrade. If something had pulled that stunt with me, I would have taken that as a sign of (bad) things to come and reverted immediately. Those who didn't ... again, now they've learned their lesson.

I'm not making any excuses whatsoever for Microsoft pulling such an illegal move (yes, illegal - unauthorized use of a computer system). That's another story, and a good reason to dual-boot or keep bootable media with another OS hanging around. Windows 10 goes out of mainstream support in 4 years. By that time there should be enough people fed up that something will change - and if it's not Microsoft, it will be the users.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Living with security holes is something you are going to be doing all the time, whether your system is patched or not. As for those who got their passwords, nude pictures, whatever stolen, c'est la vie - when you do stuff online you don't have control of what goes on at the other end. But you can avoid doing stupid stuff like storing nude pics of yourself online or sharing them with anyone (or just don't take them in the first place), and not spending your time at the less reputable sites.

It's not 100%, but it's less risk than an update that leaves your computer unbootable. Malware authors don't want you to brick your computer. Microsoft doesn't care. It just means more sales, same as when people buy a new computer because their old one slowed down because of bit rot.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[LVSlushdat]

OR do like some of us, who gave up getting fucked by proprietary operating systems quite a while ago, and now only use Linux, and some who are laughing their asses off at all the sheep who still use ANY MS product, and some others who pity those same sheep, who either MUST use MS products OR *think* they have to use MS products.. Protip: You DON'T....

Re:Why does anyone update?

[LVSlushdat]

Windows 10 IS malware... The tricks MS used to infiltrate it on to everybody's pc that was still running an MS OS, ARE the textbook description of malware distribution methods. Then if you take the fact that EVERYTHING you do on *your* machine is hoovered off to MS, Windows 10 becomes even MORE the textbook description of malware... So glad all of my families systems are on Linux...

Re:Why does anyone update?

[unixisc]

This will be the last version they sell, and hence the rolling updates: there won't be any future updates. These anniversary updates are like Windows 11, 12, 13...

Re:Why does anyone update?

[unixisc]

Because it autoinstalls? Two choices: install immediately, or schedule within 24 hours. Clearly it is Trumps fault, and his racist deplorable supporters. Say no to hate: auto-update!

I install it before I log out. Typically, I see this at work, so what I do - when it's time to leave, about half an hour before, I do an update and shutdown

Re:Why does anyone update?

[wjcofkc]

NOT (quite) CORRECT. You can defer updates in the PRO version. Settings-->Update & Security-->Windows Update--> Advanced options-->Defer Upgrades

Thank you.

Why they don't offer Defer Upgrades in the Home version is... I don't know. Cockiness. Force features on the Home-version Plebes.

This is the sort of reason I replicate my work across three operating systems as best as is possible. This means I stick as close to possible as using Open Source even where the OS is not.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Billly Gates]

Ha nice try for the non enterprise edition crowd. I had defer updates turned on and still got it!

This is bullshit. Third buggy update since August 1st. Just removed it from my system but MS surface pro 3 I have won't run 8.1. Worse new Zen and Krabylake CPUs won't support anything but 10 either!!

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Billly Gates]

No I will use an OS that works for me and not the other way around thank you very much.

I am now back at 8.1 and will consider Linux or Freebsd again soon in the coming months. KVM/ qemu or unRAID maybe mature enough for me to run my few games and MS labs. In the meantime time I need something that works and going into airline mode or run non secure obsolete non patched operating systems is absurd.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Pax681]

Just try to do no updates if you are using Windows 10 Home or Pro version (without pulling the network connection obviously)...

Good luck with that...

or you could you know hide the update until they fix that shit!
with that wee app you can hide any update that doesn't play well until micrsoshite fix their crap. it used to be built in built now it's not

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Billly Gates]

Actually no. You still get updated 3 times a month. What deferred updates do is put your pc in the previous build channel. So you would an update too for build 1577 instead of anniversary. Same fixes. If you have deferred updates enabled and you already have anniversary edition you are screwed as you will get this update.

Basically it just means you stay on previous build for 3 to 4 months. You still get cumulative updates

Re:Why does anyone update?

[chipschap]

who either MUST use MS products OR *think* they have to use MS products.. Protip: You DON'T....

I'm as big a Linux fan as anyone, and use it for everything, but I've come around to the realization that some people do have to use Windows. Some of them are given no choice in the workplace. Others have some sort of vertical app or new game that just can't be replicated, won't run on Wine, etc. And there are some who like Windows and simply choose to run it.

I've said this before, however: I think that in many of the cases where people think they have no choice, they actually do, but they don't want to, won't, or simply don't have time to learn new things. That is, the number of cases in which functionality can't be adequately reproduced on Linux is far fewer than MS advocates might tell you. But that isn't to say the number is zero, either.

For me, decent OCR was the last hurdle, and Linux has that now, and nearly all of the Windows games I'm interested in run fine with Wine (I'm admittedly not a cutting edge gamer). I do have a Windows 8.1 partition but I'm asking myself why I keep it.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[squiggleslash]

Defer upgrades doesn't defer updates. The only way to defer updates is to stop and disable the Windows Update service. I'm not going to advocate one way or another for whether you should do that, I do it for my machine at home, but I'm well aware of the risks.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

To draw comparisons between Apple and MS is comparing apples and oranges.

MS supports an astonishingly diverse platform. There is NO amount of testing that can guarantee updates will always be smooth. It is remarkable they do as well as they do.

Apple is largely a closed ecosystem. Updates are a vastly simpler equation for them. It is remarkable that they ever have a problem given the orders of magnitude difference in system diversity.

I prefer the diversity and have been hit by problems from not updating more often than updating. In this age where AV programs are no longer of any real use other than to slow your system, updates are vital.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[The Real Dr John]

Microsoft's behavior definitely could be construed as illegal, especially when they co-opted the red X (close) icon in the top right to instead agree to the EULA and begin the W10 installation, rather than closing the upgrade window. There has to be some law that says you can't misrepresent your EULA acceptance as a "close window" icon. I still don't understand why anyone wanted to trade in their purchased copy of Windows, that they had control over, for a shoddy service with ads that you can't control to nearly the same extent. It's beyond me, especially considering Windows 10's track record so far.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

how much longer does the supposed 400+ million people using windows 10 have to suffer at the hands of untested (and usually broken) forced updates... most of which would never be installed on previous versions set to ignore optional and so-called 'recommended' updates... and microsoft's totally fucked-up decisions blindly made in a hasty, greedy-as-fuck effort to drive everything to 'the cloud' and to gather as much data on users as possible.

last week i had the misfortune of working on five windows 10 systems that just got this fucking 'anniversary update'. FOUR of them were so fucked-up they needed a revert or reinstall (because the revert and system restore were also fucked up) - two of those won't ever see windows 10 again; the fifth lost numerous settings that broke networking and shares, printing and a few other things.

meanwhile, a sixth windows 10 user started asking about linux.. a seventy year old woman wants out of the windows trap... SEVENTY years old and is more than willing to learn something totally new just to get rid of the total piece of shit microsoft calls windows 10.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Sure you have a choice. The forced updates require a working internet connection. Disable it in Windows 10, and either boot another version of Windows or another OS off either another partition or an external device (DVD or USB).

I'm tired of the MS Update Shitshow and the Lets-See-What-Happens-Next Extravaganza. I've gone to Linux Mint.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Agile works for a system with stable intermediate forms. Windows 10 has already shown questionable stability and fragility in the update system, modern apps and such. Perhaps in general a system developed using a non-agile processes is not easy to put under an agile process without an actual refactoring (not "refactoring" - the industry standard) due to extensive coupling, and Microsoft is now paying the price.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[beep54]

Microsoft isn't paying the price; Windows users are paying the price, while MS gets lots n lots of guinea pigs for free :)

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

We are leaving the wonderful world of Microsoft behind in rows and columns to the arms of another commercial PC operating system with all the closed DRM machinery! Oracle, save us!

;)

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why they don't vet these updates better is... bizarre.

They can't vet them because MS canned all their QA teams in the 2014 layoffs. There were a bunch of news articles about it at the time.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Nope. Windows 10 has a specific EOL according to Microsoft. Mainstream support ends in 2020, extended support (security patches only for desktop systems) is 2025.

Their next OS will be Internet-based. No net connection, no workie. You'll buy an annual, non-transferable, non-portable license tied to the hardware. Enjoy, or switch to something better. There are a few free options out there, you know.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[RubberDogBone]

This. The update went fine on all of my computers that touch the internet or do internety things. Hooray for security patches. But the update failed on one PC that happens to do nothing more than run security cameras and record video. Nobody uses it for surfing or any other work. So the broken update is of no consequence on any PC where it would matter.

ymmv but I'm not losing sleep on it.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

All you had to do was turn all updates off. Not just deferred updates. For greater certainty, you could have googled and found this to turn off windows updates in Windows 10.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Do you believe businesses just blindly patch their systems when Microsoft makes a patch available? No. They run unpatched until they've verified that the patch won't screw things up. If they can do it, so can you. Then again, if you were stupid enough to not have blocked the "upgrade" to 10 in the first place, given all the problems, then you're probably also stupid enough not to have a Linux boot dvd or bootable usb key hanging around just in case a patch bricks your system.

Unpatched doesn't automatically mean less secure (especially nowadays, where rushed patches seem to cause more problems than they solve). The worst that can happen with an unpatched system is you might catch some malware. The worst with a bad patch is your system might get permanently bricked.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

And they've got years of "new features" that will be installed, not just ads on the start menu. Dynamic wallpaper ads, popups saying "I saw you were on such-and-such a site, or typed such-and-such keyword. Here are related products and services I found to help you." "I see you're angry about my helping you. You can order Xanax at one of these pharmacies, or weed online at these dispensaries." "I see you're depressed. Do you know that most firearm deaths in the US are suicide? Here are the most popular guns you can order."

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

AMEN!!!

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Should you be using a desktop OS for 24/7 operation?

However if you must do this, can't you disable the Windows Update service? You can re-enable it when you are ready to update.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[thegarbz]

Living with security holes is something you are going to be doing all the time, whether your system is patched or not

That doesn't mean I need to do it voluntarily for known holes with known solutions. I mean I know I'm very likely to die in a car accident so that doesn't mean I'm going to walk across a big empty field carrying an umbrella during a thunderstorm.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[mrprogrammerman]

Not the only way. The recommended way if you have the Pro version would be to use Group Policy to configure how Automatic Updates works. I believe it should work on the Home version as well but since there is no Group Policy editor you would need to set the registry values directly.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[thegarbz]

Microsoft wants everyone to pay an additional licensing cost and throw out their original Windows 10 license for the privilege of not being part of their continuous deployment

No they don't. You couldn't pay this license fee even if you wanted to. Enterprise editions aren't available for anything other than specific and large volume contracts. This isn't a money issue or they'd allow it for some pro users too since that would push home users up. It also wouldn't cripple their enterprise sales because those contracts are tied in volume licensing for an entire suite of MS software.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Alain Williams]

Should you be using a desktop OS for 24/7 operation?

I see no reason why not -- if it is stable. The same version of CentOS that I am typing at I have installed on customer servers. But no way would I suggest that anyone use MS Windows for anything that had an uptime or reliability requirement - it is just laughable.

I was at a friend's house today, had dug out an old printer, could I get it to work ? I configured it's wifi, 5 minutes; ran up the Linux Mint printer config tool; I had a test page printed off in a minute; tried the same on Win 10 ... nothing, had to download 400 MB from HP (5 mins); then run the installer; then the config tool - all in all 20-30 mins.

Why do people say that MS Windows is easier to use than Linux ?

Re:Why does anyone update?

[The Real Dr John]

I agree that it is going to get even more ugly with the "feature set" as MS concludes that the audience is truly captive. They will boil the frog very slowly at first, and turn up the heat as time goes on. It will be interesting to see if any of the frogs ever complain.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[MrL0G1C]

Maybe this is a silly question but can't you simply disable the update service / alter tasks in the task scheduler, and/or disable related services that nothing else is likely to use.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[rtb61]

How does it make it feel though. How does it feel to fight your operating system for functionality, how does it feel to fight your operating system for privacy, how does it feel to fight your operating system for security, how does it feel to fight your operating system to be free of advertising and how does it really feel when you have to fight against the incompetence and corruption of your so called trusted supplier.

Perhaps you should consider doing your level best let the Micro Softies how you feel about what they are doing to you, let them really know. Where are the anti-privacy invasion bumper stickers, the rogue posters, the t-shirts, where is the anti-Windows anal probe 10, privacy invasion, anti-marketing campaign. They are going out of their way to make your life worse, so what are you doing to make their life worse for making your life worse, face it, they will only get much worse if you let them get away with it.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Agile" can't work for anything. It's just a way for lazy developers to get shit out, no matter how broken, with the promise that they will eventually fix it. It has lead to this modern duct-tape culture of software development.

Software developers aren't nearly as knowledgeable or skilled as they used to be. That is a fact.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better than that, DON'T RUN SPYWARE 10. Use Windows 7, Windows 8, Linux Mint, elementary OS, SteamOS, macOS, Remix OS, Android x86...anything but that festering, spyware, malware, ad-filled, constantly breaking, constantly reverting, no user control pile of shit Windows 10.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Alumoi]

Protip: You DON'T....

Protip: I do
I'm running Mint on my desktop and my daughter's laptop but I MUST use Windows on my laptop and so does my wife.
I'm a lawyer (non US) and the best law database program only runs under Windows. My wife (MD) has to use some kind of program which connects to the government databases and you guessed it, the best program only runs under Windows.
Of course we can go for the third or fourth best programs which (mostly) run under Wine, but that would mean loss of functionality for both of us, so why bother?
So it's Windows 7 for both of us until we retire.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

What are these ads you talk about?

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

They also had a month in which to revert the upgrade.

How many people know that is even an option? Most people aren't geeks who keep up with these things. Reverting the upgrade may not be difficult, but people have to at least consider it might be possible before they Google how to do it. And even then some people are too scared of breaking their computer to even try it, that may not be rational, but it is just the way some people are.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Ol Olsoc]

Why they don't offer Defer Upgrades in the Home version is... I don't know. Cockiness. Force features on the Home-version Plebes. Why they don't vet these updates better is... bizarre.

Microsoft has always broken systems with updates, from way back in XP days. There was no reason to believe that that situation would improve, and facts bear out that is the case, only worse.

Automatic, no choice updates are the proximate cause, since system hosing is just something that goes along with using Windows. The user's only defense is to have control over the update process. I know something is going to break, so I need to do an update at a moment when I have the time to fix it.

My Windows 10 setup was like a 1960's British sportscar with Lucas Electrics. Brittle, maintenance and repair taking up a lot of time, and stretching the definition of working.

I have a Windows 7 system that has become my go - to when I need to use Windows. It's two OS's behind, but I can control the update process, so uptime is 100 percent so far.

Should it be this way? Hell no. My OSX and Linux systems don't break regularly. They update without the drama. They work when the update is finished. I need a computer that works every day. The only way I can control that in Windows is having complete control over the update process. With Windows 10, that is not happening.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Ol Olsoc]

Why do people say that MS Windows is easier to use than Linux ?

Because they haven't used Linux. Or if they had, it was from like 1998, and they are forming thier wrong opinion from ancient software

Re: Why does anyone update?

[allanster]

Wow, the scariest thing (among many) is that this person's comment was actually tagged "insightful". Insightful regarding what? How ignorant so many users are? Maybe you should reserve your comments for something you actually have some knowledge about, like I dunno, maybe baking cookies? As already mentioned by other commenters... there is no such thing as "questionable sites", malicious ads respect no site's reputation. There is no such thing as "good AV", zero days respect no AV's reputation. Businesses don't "rush" into upgrading because of some overzealous technolust, 98% are small business, they often have hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in accounting and other types of software that MUST be kept up to date or they lose their support. That means keeping their OS up to date as well. Most can't afford enterprise. Left with a choice of upgrading say 40 copies of Windows 7 Pro to 10 for FREE or waiting past deadline and paying $8000, which do you think a small business is going to do? Don't misconstrue what I'm saying here to mean I like Microsoft, they are the bane of my job. Here is some insight from someone whose livelihood actually depends on keeping these turds polished: ALWAYS run as limited user. DEFER upgrades. Use O&O Shutup 10 for privacy concerns. Use MULTIPLE brands of layered security throughout infrastructure, most are free for home use and reasonable for small business. I'm not going to list brands of door locks that I use except for the most important one... Invincea Endpoint! Their product has stopped ALL malware infections for 3 years running since the day I deployed it on all of the group of companies I protect. Sandboxie is their freeware for home use. I receive no compensation from them but I do gladly pay them.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[unixisc]

I was already in the process of migrating. I had gone to PC-BSD, but when they changed the OS name to TrueOS and went to 10.3, their update server stopped working, and I'm stuck on this. Also, I had to reinstall, and can no longer get Lumina. Just wish their CDs were available - the laptop's USB booting option doesn't work w/ their image downloads. So right now, just doing this from a vanilla 10.2 version and in KDE - can't even get Lumina.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or it was yesterday and broke it, plus it requires patching constantly. I have a few hundres linus servers that have patches going to them daily. Its a constant strain to maintain them securely.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[spire3661]

Im not going to upgrade my HTPC to Windows Server just to guarantee uptime. I record almost all of prime time TV and compress it down overnight. I cant have the machine rebooting in the middle of a record or transcode. It worked fine on Windows 7 as a 24/7 machine for half a decade with a pretty significant daily workload.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should reserve your comments for something you actually have some knowledge about, like I dunno, maybe baking cookies?

Ding! Quick someone tell BarbaraHudson her oven timer is going off. Mmmmmm, chocolate chip?

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

You serious? What OS? Debian stable?

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

As far as I'm aware CentOS isn't differentiated between desktop and server versions (other than the packages you install on top of a base install), Windows is.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Best way to disable Automatic Updates is to point it to a non-existant WSUS server.

(Won't work in Win10 Home.)

WUServer in this case is NOT against Microsoft Server - setting to 1 makes it check against WSUS server specified in the other two entries. See https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc708449(v=ws.10).aspx

In an admin cmd prompt:

reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v WUServer /t REG_SZ /d "http://localhost" /f
reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v WUStatusServer /t REG_SZ /d "http://localhost" /f
reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU" /v UseWUServer /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

When you want to check against Microsoft again, flip the UseWUServer to 0

reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU" /v UseWUServer /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

Found this out because our WSUS&SCCM infrastructure is old (SCCM 2007... upgrade to CurrentBranch in progress) so we setup a recurring scheduled task to change UseWUServer=0 every 15 min to have it check against Microsoft until we upgrade (SCCM client would revert it back every 30min)

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only way to defer updates (the monthly updates) and upgrades (the new builds) is to trick WU into pointing to a nonexistant WSUS server
(Won't work in Win10 Home.)

In an admin cmd prompt:
reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v WUServer /t REG_SZ /d "http://localhost" /f
reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v WUStatusServer /t REG_SZ /d "http://localhost" /f
reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU" /v UseWUServer /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

then restart wuauserv serivce for it to recognize new settings. (net stop wuauserv net start wuauserv)

When you want to check against Microsoft again, flip the UseWUServer to 0
reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU" /v UseWUServer /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

( WUServer in this case is NOT against Microsoft Server - what setting to 1 does is makes it check against server specified in the other two registry entries. See https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc708449(v=ws.10).aspx )

Found this out because our WSUS&SCCM infrastructure was SCCM 2007 (upgrade to CurrentBranch later this week) so we pushed out a batch to setup a Task Scheduler to change UseWUServer=0 every 15 min (because SCCM client would revert it back every 30min) to have it check against Microsoft until we upgrade, because we actually do want to keep our updates automatic for security.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have a choice to not update. That's what I hate about Windiws 10. The update occurs automatically if the computer is on and connected to WiFi. My ASUS laptop that I purchased in July 2015 came with Win8 and worked perfectly. I stupidly accepted the free upgrade to Win10 and it has had problems ever since. Everything is slow as molassess, and I've had ongoing issues with peripherals and my graphics card. I hardly ever use the laptop now, preferring my smartphone, except when I have to use the laptop for a function I can't do via the phone.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[jez9999]

It is remarkable they do as well as they do.

+1 Hilarious shill.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[phorm]

"Why they don't offer Defer Upgrades in the Home version is... I don't know. Cockiness. Force features on the Home-version Plebes."

I'm voting it being something like "we fired a bunch of what few Beta testers we have left. We gave those home users the OS free, so they can be our guinea pigs now"

Re:Why does anyone update?

[Anonymous Coward]

Turn off Windows Update service and Background Intelligent Transfer.
No updates, and your Windows 10 machine is fast and consistent.

Now get rid of cortana, all the office apps, and shut down windows defender.
Now your Windows 10 machine is fast and will stay that way!

Yay for thinking!

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Ask a kid. Ask google. Ask people on Facebook or Twitter if you spend all your time posting selfies. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be using a computer anyway.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

So all those Fortune 1000- businesses and government agencies that refuse to roll out updates the day they come out are ignorant? Also, bullshit on needing to keep up-to-date or lose support for small businesses and their software. Most of the time, it's the other way around - businesses don't fully support a new OS for quite a while (and the old OS is still supported for 10 years from initial release date).

So why not grow up instead of making up shit?

As for businesses stuck on Windows 7 either updating before the deadline, or paying retail after, you should have read the terms. You could update and roll back within a month, and still keep your update rights. Just like you can still update for free today even if you never tried it.

And let's be honest for 2 seconds here - any business that was stupid enough to update to 10 deserves what they get. That "anniversary update" that is causing so many problems was purposefully delayed until after anyone who upgraded couldn't roll back. 7 is still supported until 2017. So is Vista, if you want to get ugly. What's your rush?

Oh, right - all those Fortune 1000 companies are morons and you're the know-it-all genius. Again, bullshit.

Re:Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

A lot of people are saying that usb boot works - but they never tried it and are full of shit. I tried 5 distros to find ONE that would boot off a usb key. That is the state of free operating systems today. It sucks. That's why you need to keep an external DVD-rom around, or keep trying distros until you find one that boots reliably off a usb key.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Even with wifi on, if you had updates turned off you didn't get hit. I turned them off in January, and only manually updated last week, and totally avoided the Win10 upgrade. It's not like there is a rush. You can still install 10 for free, even after the deadline, even if you never downloaded it or installed it. The deadline was fake, to "encourage" people to do it sooner rather than later.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[allanster]

Put the cookies down and pay attention BarbaraHudson, what part of "small business" did you not understand? I didn't say anything about fortune 1000 companies. I said 98% of business is small business... http://sbecouncil.org/about-us... Yes you could lie and upgrade under the guise of assistive technologies, but I support legal SMALL businesses that actually adhere to policy. Since you're obviously all knowing, you do know how long Microsoft will support Dynamics GP versions and how long those versions will run on a deprecated OS? I know it's only enterprise accounting software so it's not really important to business ops right? As far as Fortune 1000 penetration, you're talking out your pie hole, they don't disclose this information. Government isn't even relevant, they're as incompetent as you are. You're obviously a legend in your own mind, the problem is the other posters and I aren't in your mind and we all recognize your complete and utter ignorance. You lost any credibility the moment you stated "just don't go to questionable sites". Now get back in the kitchen where you belong and bake us some cookies.

Re: Why does anyone update?

[BarbaraHudson]

Why don't you pay attention for a change? Times have changed. No small business has an excuse not to know how to delay or avoid a fatal update. If the computer is critical to their operations, they should either know how to maintain it or hire someone who does. Same as if they're dependent on a truck to make deliveries - better hire someone who knows how to drive and make sure that routine maintenance is done.

And you're so full of shit about fortune 1000 companies - why do you think that corporate users have the option to postpone the upgrade? Only a complete incompetent would allow such an upgrade without lots of testing in such an environment.

Microsoft refused to give a direct answer as to whether Windows 10 was HIPAA compliant. There's no guarantee, even with the Enterprise edition, that things you locked down will stay locked down forever, and this doesn't protect from human error. Even a dentist's office using Windows 10 can easily fall afoul of the law. The EULA clearly violates HIPAA.

Something as simple as turning on Cortana is a serious violation. How many people are aware of that when they bring home work from the office?

This is the year.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's finally here.

Re:This is the year.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll tell you one fucking thing, if this isn't the year that Linux hits the desktop, it's sure the year that Windows 7 sticks around forever. Yesterday I got a fresh copy of WSUS Offline and made sure to have it suck down the patch installers for Windows 7. Microsoft wants to stop offering individual updates, fine, I'll freeze my systems at the most secure instance of Windows 7 that I possibly can, and if I ever have to nuke and reinstall, it will be Windows 7.

I will NOT, EVER, install Windows 10.

Re:This is the year.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the year of the trifecta:

1) Linux on the desktop
2) Cubs win the World Series
3) President Trump!

Re:This is the year.

[CAOgdin]

Amen! AMEN!

Business Considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

Sticking to the plan may be more important (for employee bonuses) than the fact that some small percentage of machines will be broken. It is not like there is a danger that users change their OS. MS Windows and MS Office are too entrenched for that. It is more probable that the machines which end screwed up will be replaced with new machines with Win10. And MS will even some new licenses that way.

Microsoft SOP

[NormAtHome]

It's been Microsoft standard operating procedure for a long time, "we'll do what we want and the hell with customer feedback or anything the customers want". I was honestly amazed that they reversed course on the start button removal in Windows 8, the backlash must have been truly historic.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[Anonymous Coward]

MS is like Apple. They know better than the customers themselves what the customers want.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they only partially backtracked on the Start button issue. Although they brought it back, what does the Start button actually do in Windows 10? It just brings up a "Start Menu" that is completely broken and useless.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[retchdog]

you mean kind of like systemd replacing SysVinit? </troll>

Re:Microsoft SOP

[LeftCoastThinker]

Except that, Apple has rolled out OPTIONAL updates for the past 10+ years with only minor hiccups, and they have a rock solid support setup complete with Apple stores and stand by their products 110%.

MS is throwing out shit updates that break 10% of their install base after they know there is an issue with their guinea pigs. This has been their SOP for years, but now that Windows 10 has mandatory updates, they will be driving away hordes of customers. With so much of peoples lives on the computer, it is entirely unacceptable to break a PC with a shitty update. These days it is equivalent to an automaker forcing you to update their firmware with a patch that causes 10% of their cars to stop working. With any other industry, MS would be facing a massive lawsuit (oh wait they are being sued). What MS doesn't realize is that the PC industry has matured without them, and they are driving away customers in droves.

Watch for an uptick of Apple desktops and laptops sales.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[Blue Stone]

This is what happens when you have a monopoly. They stop having to care to keep the money flowing in.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[lgw]

Except that, Apple has rolled out OPTIONAL updates for the past 10+ years

Tell me more about the OPTIONAL headphone jack.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple stores and stand by their products 110%.

You're holding it wrong...

Re:Microsoft SOP

[theArtificial]

Do you really need someone to point out what hardware and software are? This thread is about software updates.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[lgw]

This thread is about companies that abuse their users by removing their choices.

Re:Microsoft SOP

[allanster]

Except that, Apple has rolled out OPTIONAL updates for the past 10+ years

Tell me more about the OPTIONAL headphone jack.

Okay, I'll tell you more, you have the OPTION not to buy it, you have the OPTION to use a vastly more insecure Android or become an outlaw 1 percenter and use a Windows 10 phone. OR you could by a 6 dollar adapter, just sayin'

Re: Microsoft SOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny. It works fine for me. It's not broken, nor useless.

Re: Microsoft SOP

[theArtificial]

Hail Vault dweller! Maybe you can use some arguments from your Zip drive? Or only the ones sourced from your floppy drive pulling up?

Re:Microsoft SOP

[lgw]

Sure, that was about what I was saying - your option is to switch vendors - to a different asshole who will lock you down to some other bullshit. You have to go pretty far out of the mainstream to reclaim choice.

Blame Microsoft.

[SuricouRaven]

Once again I got to waste part of my morning listening to Mother complain that her laptop is broken, and now I know why.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Put Linux Mint on her machine. Unless you play the latest games, work with pro audio or need some very special software, there is really no reason to stick with Windows any longer. If you've got one or two special programs only, check out whether they run in Wine. It's worth it.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[RebelWithoutAClue]

Does slashdot even believe in linux anymore?

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does slashdot even believe in linux anymore?

One does not have to believe in linux.

Linux believes in you.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Slashdot believes in fairies and the pixie dust.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Ol Olsoc]

Linux is your's and Mom's friend. My wife absolutely loves it, and she can even do the updates just by clicking on the little checkmark shield. She feels like a real computer jockey now, and her machine always works. It's been 100 percent uptime since installation. Mint is good for noobs and experienced people alike.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[hughbar]

Agree. Now got Linux Mint on my ex's (who used to phone every other day for support) and also a small office that I do voluntary work for (no money and fairly ancient laptops). There's a learning curve and a bit of push-back and after a couple of weeks everything settles at a much lower support intensity. No Windows virus infections either. OK, I probably don't have a huge sample there.

It's not a case of being a complete fanatic, but the practical reasons and aspects look pretty good, nowadays. The blocking factors tend to be specialised Windows-only software (Wine sometimes solves, sometimes not), hardware (drivers) but mainly 'fear' driven by brand (non) recognition.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[SuricouRaven]

I use linux on two laptops, one desktop, and two servers.

Mother uses Windows. Changing her from it is not an option. Aside from the weeks of 'where did the thingie go?' calls, her workplace only permits Windows machines to VPN in and access their remote desktop environment.

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunno, but I only run Linux as main OS on all our comps, even wifey and shared comps. Wifey very happy and never wants Windows again (was stuck on Vista).

No plans for W10 migration EVER. W7 was pretty decent, but have seen this coming for some years and prepared.

Steam for games
Chrome for Netflix
Simply just stop supporting your oppressors

Captcha: reject

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Put Linux Mint on her machine. Unless you play the latest games, work with pro audio or need some very special software, there is really no reason to stick with Windows any longer. If you've got one or two special programs only, check out whether they run in Wine. It's worth it.

Tax software won't work on linux and requires yearly updates. Random trojans found on facebook will also be Windows only. In 10 years when a holdout laptop of yours has a catastrophic failure, you won't even find an optical drive to install a burned ISO for Windows 7... or the activation servers will be offline, or the ISO itself won't matter enough to be keep alive online kinda like Windows 2000, XP (https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/759364-where-can-i-find-a-legit-xp-pro-iso ) or Vista's today (https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/37238-Are-there-no-more-Windows-Vista-ISO-downloads ). And even if you manage to install 7, you will have a bunch of driverless new hardware because nobody cares to backport drivers for new motherboards to old OS buyers who want to upgrade

Re:Blame Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does slashdot even believe in linux anymore?

Not from what I see. Arbitrary Desktop Environment follies from 10 years ago where the beginning of the end and Macs became the cool new Unixy OS here.
Linux has tons of 1,000-papercut-death problems that make it unlikely as an unattended OS for your family. Even for myself, it is painful to use.
* Default repos lack what you need and sooner or later adding extras runs you into conflicting libs, and breaks package upgradability.
* Basic support for USB printer drivers beyond HP is rarely there.
* Dependable Windows SMB LAN share browsing, Bluetooth support and Wifi manager disco bugs have been a pain over various distros.
* Trendy effects slow down old hardware considerably enough that I haven't bit the bullet to upgrade to a derivative of RHL 7.

I test drive recent Live distros and there is little to gain and much to lose. Unfortunately "up"-grading to Windows 8 or 10+ is also a stupid move. It will be inevitable because https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9721953&cid=52995355

Glad I turned my Win 7 updates off

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather have Cryptolocker and a host a botnet before I have to deal with this shit.

finally, the year of the Linux desktop

[retchdog]

that's how i feel whenever there's a Linux kernel update. nice to see Microsoft catching up finally!

Re:finally, the year of the Linux desktop

[SeaFox]

Is there a specific reason you're updating your kernel? Those aren't automatic.
You should treat it like PC firmware -- if it's working fine don't replace it until required. If it's not working fine don't update unless the update is supposed to fix your specific issue.

Re:finally, the year of the Linux desktop

[retchdog]

yes, i refuse them, but ubuntu at least nags you constantly about it.

i'm using ubuntu because my time isn't completely worthless. don't bother telling me to use something else. i tried centos because it's supposed to be more stable, but the installer couldn't even finish booting because (apparently) it uses different disk device identifiers for loading the kernel and for the userspace environment, so it loses the disk and shits itself before even getting into runlevel 3. hilarious...

at this point, i'm seriously considering going with windows 10 and its ghetto posix support. i'm still waiting to see whether they can iron the bugs out, but afaic the bar is pretty fucking low.

Re:finally, the year of the Linux desktop

[lgw]

As the sibling post says: Ubuntu blows goats. Ubuntu nags me constantly to reboot, far more than MS's traditional once-a-month. With Win10, MS finally catches up to Ubuntu's almost-weekly reboots.

(Of course, you can just ignore the Ubuntu nagging, unless your company has a policy requiring you to reboot when nagged.)

Re:finally, the year of the Linux desktop

[SeaFox]

Just go to Mint instead. Cinnamon's interface is similar to older Windows, the software repository is the same, they pretty much recommend you don't update your kernel unless you know what you're doing.

Re:finally, the year of the Linux desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

at this point, i'm seriously considering going with windows 10 and its ghetto posix support. i'm still waiting to see whether they can iron the bugs out, but afaic the bar is pretty fucking low.

While Window 10's bash shell (req. the new Anniversary edition) is Ubuntu-based, somehow GIT can't authenticate to HTTPS repos on it (I don't have HTTP to test it).
I suggest waiting a year or two till Google and online fora can buid up a healthier knowledge base. While it is interesting, you will fare a little better with support for Cygwin's posix env... and optionally get Xwindows.

Just like the last one

[Ol Olsoc]

If you are using Windows 10 - Welcome to your future! This is exactly why I abandoned it.

I once said Windows 10 wasn't ready for prime time. I was wrong.

Windows 10 simply does not work, and if you haven't been boned by it, it only means you haven't been boned by it yet.

Since Microsoft is now the leading malware vector, they seriously must allow everyone to turn off their Bohica updates. It's the only way that people can have at least some assurance that their computers will work.

Unbelievable.

[Anonymous Coward]

I find this old comic (sorry, this is a poster sales link) very much on topic this time round.

I want a refund...

[Bob_Who]

...nevermind.

It's part of their business model

[MessageDrivenBean]

Microsoft's ecosystem of local companies have to stay in business. So every now and then, they are screwing things up badly, in such a way that those "partners" can fix that... for the right price.

Yes!

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.linuxmint.com/

Problems

[mwvdlee]

Lost network sharing on all updated computers.
Printer automatically uninstalled (had Win10 drivers).
Lost most file associations.
Reboot problems.

Yup, the 1607 update was really great!

Atleast my start menu is a lot messier now.

Re:Problems

[David_Hart]

Lost network sharing on all updated computers.
Printer automatically uninstalled (had Win10 drivers).
Lost most file associations.
Reboot problems.

Yup, the 1607 update was really great!

Atleast my start menu is a lot messier now.

I was a few revisions behind on my Win 10 Pro so I've missed all of the fun until now.

I was on 1511.494 and the 1511 patches refused to install. Spent Thursday "fixing" it. The problem turned out to be MSSQL services need to be disabled during the update and the driver for my Audigy 2ZS would cause an IRQ bluescreen during install. Both of these were blocking upgrades. I installed 1607 at the same time as patch 4496 had just been released.

The upgrade itself went fine, no problems on reboot.
- No problems with my printer, still works fine
- I don't use network shares, so can't comment on that
- I use Stardock Start 10 for my Start menu so I don't notice any changes there

I did notice that the patch reset some file associations to the Windows 10 defaults. For example, I had to change MP3/MP4 default back to Windows Media Player and Photo viewing back to Windows Photo Viewer. Microsoft should not have done this automatically!! They should have asked the user if they wanted to change programs. I expect that I'll have to "fix" some of my relative's computers as a result of this....

Re: Problems

[Billly Gates]

That's the problem.

What is odd is my support buddies who do small business get weird tickets for all pcs with same hardware and software stack every 3 weeks when an update hits. Stuff like 6 out of 25 pcs looped rebooting for 6 hours while others worked fine?!

The problem is they are losing customers and one wants to sue! Basically all the computers with XP worked fine before YOU came and cost us $5000 in lost business! They are now viewed as incompetent all thanks to Windows 10.

True XP doesn't have these problems.

Is MS going to change and rehire their QA? Windows 7 is old now and 2019 is coming fast! What does a company and IT shop do? This is going to be bad as the 7 holdouts like the XP brethren before can't stay forever in the business world who needs support ... but shit keep working

Re: Problems

[theCoder]

The problem is they are losing customers and one wants to sue! Basically all the computers with XP worked fine before YOU came and cost us $5000 in lost business! They are now viewed as incompetent all thanks to Windows 10.

Maybe they should recommend that their customers migrate to systems that are more in their control. The one who wants to sue would hurt MS a lot more if he was able to move customers to Linux. And while there would be short term costs, the long term costs (especially in TCO) would probably be lower. Microsoft won't change their behavior until people start leaving their platform. That's how our economy works -- if you don't like vendor A, you take your business to a competitor.

Re:Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget it clobbers GRUB, leaving you unable to dual boot.

Re:Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

Updated 161 machines at work...not a single problem.

Re:Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a weird issue after the latest Windows 10 upgrade. Had to set IRPStackSize to 32 and it cleared it up. Lots of DCOM permissions issues to sort out as well, but those didn't fix the SMB networking error. IRPSTackSize fixed that in my setup. I had the following error popping up in my event viewer system log every time I had a client attempt to attach to a share:

Event ID 2011
The server's configuration parameter "irpstacksize" is too small for the server to use a local device. Please increase the value of this parameter.

Nice little write up with recommended values: https://kc.mcafee.com/corporate/index?page=content&id=KB59932&pmv=print
The IRPSStackSize DWORD was not present on mine, I had to add it.
 
Technet articles didn't discuss the ranges. This apparently still works on newer desktop and server OS's - fixed my issue after hours of screwing around.

Question for Windows 10 people:

[Gravis Zero]

Are you enjoying being a perpetual beta tester?
...
Oh no, my glass house! What have you monsters done?!

Re:Question for Windows 10 people:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm enjoying it.
Mainly because I, my 4 other PCs and everyone I know, ran into any issues since the release of Windows 10.

Re:Question for Windows 10 people:

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you enjoying being a perpetual beta tester?

Not beta tester: the findings of those lead to fixes. Beta victim. The early nerd catches the worm.

Microsoft's desperate pleas for help

[Anonymous Coward]

Saw this in the firehose. "In related news Microsoft has posted a new job open called a "Windows Update Manager" whose job description mentions the 'ability to reduce chaos, stress'."

It is worse than the article amits

[thegarbz]

When this first hit the insider forums on the 28th there were quite widespread complaints and they were acknowledge by Microsoft people in the forum. It's not just a lack of quality control, the quality control is being done but no one cares anymore. Despite Microsoft reps asking for installation logs files from the many people who were reporting problems they released it anyway.

I mean this is just getting stupider and stupider.

Re: It is worse than the article amits

[Billly Gates]

Agree. I read 70% somewhere when it was in insider still!

What were they thinking? Does it really absolutely have to be released for a deadline?! No MS this is not XP here to say stop. MS is terrifyed that win 7 is going to be the XP but what they do not realize is they are causing this.

MS needs to unbranched fixes so they can take out one buggy thing and add code that works to fix the others .... Please for the love of God test internally again with real hardware and VMS

Re: It is worse than the article amits

[Anonymous Coward]

What were they thinking? Does it really absolutely have to be released for a deadline?!

Look, the Agile(TM) Conslutant specifically told us that if you're not always release-ready, you're not doing Agile(TM) right. We're Agile(TM), and that means when the sprint's over, we ship. If we didn't ship, we wouldn't be Agile(TM).

It works on the developer's machine, and passes the test suite that the developer wrote for his machine, and that's why we're not just Agile(TM), but Agile(TM)DevOps(R). We fired QA because QA is so not-Agile and so not-DevOps, and we're AgileDevOps.

What's more important? That the product actually works in the field? Or that we be AgileDevOps? (Hint: the people making this decision are stack ranked and the bottom 10% are thrown out depending on how AgileDevOps they are.)

MS updates have always been dodgy

[reboot246]

I have always had my systems set to inform me about updates but let me choose which ones and when to install them. Let somebody else find out the hard way when an update screws up a system.

That's why I will never have anything to do with Windows 10. It's just too much of a risk trusting Microsoft to do anything right.

Re:MS updates have always been dodgy

[thegarbz]

It's never been this bad. The thing is there's a lot of people who get the update first. The insider program had this update 4 days ago. They complained in droves that the update was causing problems. This normally gets something withheld, after all the insider program is the beta testing program. But in this case they pushed through with the update despite knowing that it's caused major grief for a lot of users.

Re:MS updates have always been dodgy

[Anonymous Coward]

only 4 days of testing? really?

Good job getting rid of QA, Microsoft

[bravecanadian]

Ever since you did, you have been blowing something up almost monthly with your updates.

Re:Good job getting rid of QA, Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't get rid of QA per se, they just fired the US team and shipped all update QA work to newbs in the Shanghai office. There was some song and dance about training their replacements, but odds are the US team in Seattle simple sabotaged the OJT subtly so the Shanghai guys thought they could deal with it. You don't dump an experienced QA department and expect to have their experience as a tidy knowledge base people can search, unless you are MBA levels of stupid. And they US team wasn't dumb either, having sussed out that they were slowly training up the Shanghai office ostensibly as tier 1 while the US team was tier 3. Back stabbing works well only when the victim wasn't expecting it.

Just downgraded to 8.1. Linux?

[Billly Gates]

I went from anti MS zealot in 1998 to pro Freebsd to then pro MS by the time of Windows 7 ... To maybe back around.

This is the first time in a long time that I am highly discouraging business use of MS. I know on slashdot this is a no duh moment, but for the rest of us used to MS Office, Active Directory, and things just working, this is big news.

I agree with Hairyfeet that Linux historically has broken more with updates than Windows due to shit never changing in Windows and a strong abi that Linux lacks which means drivers do not break and require a recompile. Looking at you Xorg and Nvidia! But with Ubuntu LTS I do not have that problem.

Freebsd also has an ABI too for stuff not breaking.

But man Windows 10 anniversary update is a cluster fuck and so is Office 2016. I LOVE both. On a tablet like my surface Windows 10 is decent. No it is. Outlook 2016 now has attachments available for a whole chain of emails which is nice in a thread. But ... BIG but Windows 10/Office 2016 is win32 Gentoo! Nothing ever stays just working. I do not have confidence that my systems will STAY working whether rebooting while I am working on something or Hyper-V all of the sudden not work.

The only reason I am still using Windows is because of steam games, virtualization with a real non buggy type 1 Hyper-V (VMware workstation sucks hairballs), and I make a living with Microsoft based technologies. So I am going back to 8.1 with start8 from object desktop.

However, with no QA what is to say some updates won't trash 8 or 7? While it is in legacy the risk is less but still exists.

Can KVM supported nested virtualization? How good is Wine today in 2016 compared to 2010 for games? How good is the KVM port to Freebsd (I don't like system D)?

Re:Just downgraded to 8.1. Linux?

[theArtificial]

Perhaps you can do something where you have the best of both worlds? Linux host with GPU pass through (dedicated hardware for Windows VM to run Steam). 95% performance. I use Apple stuff at work and really dig it for development, homebrew makes it amazing. Got 7 for a workstation at home (copy of 8 just waiting to migrate to when I do another hardware refresh) and a bunch of VMs and VPS for work. Here's one thread on it, there are more guides out there.

Re: Just downgraded to 8.1. Linux?

[Billly Gates]

It looks like I would have to stick with Intel graphics on the host and buy a new CPU. My i7 4770k supports vt-x but not vt-d for I/0 virtualization needed for the GPU

Re: Just downgraded to 8.1. Linux?

[mister_playboy]

I likewise have a 4770K and am deeply annoyed that Intel's asinine product segmentation left the supposed top-of-the-line processor with a valuable feature missing.

Swapping in a 4790K would give us VT-d but the prices on them are still too high for me to bother with this yet.

Re: Just downgraded to 8.1. Linux?

[Billly Gates]

Dude it is an old now almost 3years old and soon to be 3 generations behind with Kaby Lake. Why is it still $325 wtf?

I am guessing XP and 7 loyalists are bringing prices up? It makes no sense as you can get a new CPU for around same price.

But both Hyper-V and VMware workstation and even vsphere run fine without iommu with the regular VT/X or vt-v instructions so I blame KMS.

I had a machine with this problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

And this isn't even the worse that I've had happen. On the previous update, my machine wouldn't boot and I had to roll back the update. After being forced to do update->rollback->update several times, let me tell you: I was pretty pissed! You just can't force updates on customers, especially if those updates have the potential to break the system. The proof is in the fact that NO OTHER COMPANY does this!

Mark my words, if Microsoft doesn't get this update bullshit squared away, it will eventually be the death of their platform...

Microsoft doesn't care about operating systems

[zerofoo]

The 90's are gone - Microsoft has figured out that leasing their software in the cloud is the next giant pool of money to be had.

In a world where you don't run software or store data locally, operating systems are a low-value commodity item. It wouldn't surprise me if in the next few years Microsoft stops selling boxed software licenses entirely.

If you want to run Microsoft, you will pay the piper every month for the privilege.

Re:Microsoft doesn't care about operating systems

[ArtemaOne]

For my primary computer I am already planning on moving to Enterprise to get back functionality, which will mean doing just that. I'll leave standard licenses on my other computers around the house.

Superfluous word in summary

[jenningsthecat]

it feels like every time you run Windows update you are rolling the dice

Trumped

[thermidor]

They can basically do whatever the hell they want and people still buy the stupid operating system. They're the Donald Trump of the software world.

These aren't LUDDITE updates.

[Anonymous Coward]

These are appy APPdates, because Appdows 10 is the appiest appearing app that has ever been apped!

Apps!

MS is a joke

[Anonymous Coward]

MS is a fucking joke. For the past week i have been trying to update Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit sp1 and nothing works, I cleared out the Windows Update Cache, updated the Windows Update Agent to the latest, Installed the patches MS recommended to fix the update issues, Installed the rollup updates, etc... and yet I'm still at "Checking for Updates" for hours. This was not an issue for me about 3 month's ago. I cannot install Visual Studio 2015 because during the installation it looks for updates and it get's stuck for hours. Maybe I missed an option to not update VS during install because I can't think straight anymore.

Another thing, why can't MS fix and design the Windows 10 UI properly? The UI is a mixed bag of old and new plus 2 control panels. Why is it that the Open Source community with limited resources does a better job than MS who have thousands and thousands of programmers. Yes, sometimes kde, gnome, xfce might have a few bugs, but get fixed right away, and you have to remember that these DE's can be customized. Windows 7/8/8.1/10 can't be customized unless you know hot to program and replace certain dll's.

If proprietary software developers are scared of violating the Open Source Linux GPL maybe they should invest time and money on the BSD platform. Adobe supports OS X why not BSD(freebsd, pc-bsd, etc...) Windows platform is becoming hugely problematic and I think it's gonna get worse It's time for developers to jump ship.

Lol, oh suuuuuure

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

"But, until the company can get a handle on their quality control issues..."

So we're talking sometime in late 2055 or thereabouts?

Third party update software

[ArtemaOne]

I'd love a third party app that replaces the update with traditional pre-10 updates. I loved the "download and install later" option, where I could then select which stuff to install and when. It also allowed me to keep up to date on Defender data while taking my time on the patches. Regardless, I didn't have any issues with this patch. I still can't see my HFS partition despite Bootcamp.

Back to 7

[Anonymous Coward]

After the update none of the Windows 10 apps are working. Spent several hours trying to repair. Now installing Win 7 from original DVD

Windows should use a "Stable~~Experimental" system

[LithiumLand]

Like the top Linux distros. I think it's rather pathetic that despite an absolutely ridiculous budget for... well, just about anything, Microsoft still releases updates that cause widespread problems. I understand that the need more frequent updates means a greater challenge, but the budget and demand ratio of Microsoft's product updates make even the most successful Linux distros look like one of those genius little kids that hack in to multibillion dollar organizations. 1/928475983746 of the resources, 2837432798 X the output.

Rolling release

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that Windows 10 is a rolling release. These updates are not just for your regular security patches, but actual key updates to the operating system itself (the OS version number increments for each of these cumulative update). For this reason it's actually even more important you get the updates whenever you can, because missing out can result in an older operating that lacks features that are acquired from the updates (e.g. if you aren't updated to the Anniversary update you can't get the Ubuntu subsystem).

If people turned off updates just because they were inconvenient, it'd cause them problems down the line that they'd just end up blaming Microsoft for rather than their own shortsightedness. I'd like more direct control over updates myself, but the stupidity of some have ruined it for everyone now.

Re:Windows should use a "Stable~~Experimental" sys

[thegarbz]

Windows should use a "Stable~~Experimental" system.

They have one. They actually have 5 tiers. 2 tiers of Insiders, standard, update-deferred and enterprise. The problem is they didn't listen to any feedback from the Insiders and pushed this out to everyone despite the major complaints.

Latest Windows 10 Update

[Anonymous Coward]

I enabled the update as I went to bed on Thursday nite. Friday morning it was still processing, Turned the machine off and on several times during the day with the same result. Finally on Friday evening it decided to recover the previous version. Runs fine now.
Very disappointing performance by Microsoft,

Microsoft doing something stupid?

[OneHundredAndTen]

Say it ain't so!

Linux users, stop complaining about systemd

[jez9999]

At least you're not using Windows 10!!

crap update anyway

[SuperDre]

The anniversary update is a crap update anyway. Since the release my machine just locks up after a while when not being used, a hard reset is necessary. It's very annoying.. Also the auto-restart (in the middle of the night) after an update is very annoying..

Stable branch

[bored]

I really wish they had a "Stable" branch, The last updated literally killed my use of IE & Edge, both of which grew a "this web page has stopped responding" dialog that pops up and results in the tab being reloaded, which of course just pops the dialog box back up in 2 seconds or whatever the timeout is.