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Class Action Lawsuit Grows Over iPhone 6 Plus 'Touch Disease' (vice.com)

Nearly 10,000 people have joined a class action lawsuit against Apple over the screen-freezing "touch disease" afflicting many iPhone Six Plus phones. An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes Motherboard: Lawyers who filed a class action lawsuit against the company in California earlier this fall have signed on three additional law firms to support their case, and an additional class action lawsuit related to the issue has been filed against Apple in Utah... Apple will not perform logic board-level repairs for consumers, which require soldering and reseating of millimeter-size components. This means the only Apple-sanctioned "fix" for a touch diseased phone is to buy a new one... Apple has been replacing touch diseased iPhone 6 Pluses with $329 refurbished ones, some of which are showing symptoms of touch disease within days or weeks of being replaced.
Despite contacting Apple five separate times, the reporter has yet to receive any official response, although "I have gotten hundreds of emails from consumers who have had to buy new phones to replace their broken iPhone 6 Pluses."

118 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. No touchscreen. Less flammable than a Note 7. Lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Steve Jobs must be rolling over in his iGrave

  2. All about Courage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Samsung has courage to issue massive recall. Apple has courage to remove headphone jack.

    1. Re:All about Courage by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Samsung has courage to issue massive recall. Apple has courage to remove headphone jack.

      The market has courage to shave a few more points off iPhone market share.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:All about Courage by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2

      Buying an iPhone in the first place is evidence of not making purchase decisions based on common sense

      Well, purchased an iPhone 6+ SIM-free to be carrier-independent two years ago. And I don't plan on upgrading it until at least Sept 2017. Cost spread over 3 years. Have been using the iPhone since the "3" (no competition at the time), and it's convenient to keep using the same phone apps and tools. Tried a Samsung and clearly its ergonomics are off compared to the iPhone. This is maybe a matter of opinion but some people are more or less ergonomics-sensitive... I am. For me, it's common sense to purchase an iPhone ; until 2014 it was, at least.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    3. Re:All about Courage by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please do not compare burning phones and degrading-over-time phones. Samsung wouldn't have issued a recall would the Note have iPhone symptoms (given how reluctant they were to issue the recall, after a lot of time and bad PR...).

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    4. Re:All about Courage by frnic · · Score: 1

      Very courageous - oh, except the replacement phones are now exploding and they kind of forgot to mention that part...

    5. Re:All about Courage by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      There's that old meme again: Apple users are fanbois who are loyal to a fault, or fashionistas who only care about the appearance of the device, or worse: about the impression it makes on others.

      I own both Android and iOS devices, and personally I think that Android sucks, in terms of performance, ease of use, and software development. Sure, I can't manage my files on iOS like I can on Android, nor do a bunch of other clever stuff, but that's like saying I can't transport a sofa in my convertible: it's true but it's something I very rarely need to do. I can probably improve my experience on Android by removing some crapware and installing some 3rd party stuff, but I can't be arsed, and why should I? I do miss a few useful features that Apple can't offer or simply won't because they're dicks; I don't care much for Apple's business practises or fiscal policies, but their devices work very well for me. iOS may be a walled garden but it's a very pretty one, it had a competent gardener, and from where I am sitting I can't even see the walls. For my daily phone, Apple is the only choice that makes (common) sense.

      As for hardware issues, I have had 2 Apple phones fail on me and 2 Android devices (but I own twice the nr of Apple devices). And in none of those cases did I get a replacement or free repair out of warranty

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re:All about Courage by frnic · · Score: 1

      My story is pretty much like yours - one of the devices I had fail was my wife iPad 1 that was 5 years old and the battery stopped holding a charge.

      I called Apple, they paid overnight shipping BOTH WAYS and replaced it with a refurb for $99.

      It is hard to complain about that, but I am sure many here will find some way.

      Every time I have had to call Apple customer service the experience has been excellent - very excellent, beyond any other company I have ever dealt with.

      That is part of why they have such a loyal fan base. And I know this will shock many here, but MOST people in the world are not geeks, and don't care about being able to modify or enhance their phones. I happen to be a developer myself, and I don't even want to...

    7. Re:All about Courage by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Samsung issued the recall very early after the problems came to light. In comparison Apple usually waits a year or two before quietly issuing a replacement program, after many users threw their defective hardware away.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:All about Courage by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Samsung issued the recall very early after the problems came to light. In comparison Apple usually waits a year or two before quietly issuing a replacement program,

      You're comparing Apples and Oranges: : "It explodes risking customer safety issue at launch" VS "Sometimes some units stop working after years" issue.

      I'll bet that in the first case Apple or Samsung would recall.

      In the second case.... it's just planned obsolescence, particularly if it tends to happen after warranty is up.

      No recall...... Maybe a replacement program, if its affecting many units still under warranty, or if they need that for PR purposes.

      Again... if it's affecting only units old enough to be out of warranty, then: Planned obsolescence.
      Customers should have read the number of years to expect the thing to last from their warranty paperwork.

    9. Re:All about Courage by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Every phone is going to be a compromsie. But in this case it's a choice between missing a few useful but non-essential features, or having those features on a device that, given my requirements, sucks donkeyballs otherwise.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    10. Re:All about Courage by lucm · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing about Samsung: even compared to other Androids they suck. Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe they're designed first for the Asian market, but they just don't feel right. Tablets, phones, music players, they're all clunky and counter-intuitive to use, terrible battery life, bloatware, etc. But that's Samsung, not Android.

      Try a Moto or a non-Samsung Nexus. And probably the new Pixel when it's released. It's a whole different story. It's like they kept moving ahead from where Apple stopped 3-4 years ago. Software is smooth, battery life is great (I often go for days on a single charge on my Moto G while I had to charge my Samsug every night), camera is high quality, wifi is rock-solid, gps is flawless.

      I remember not so long ago, I had to disable services, switch location off, switch wifi off whenever I didn't need it to save battery. Had to install battery saver apps, tweak settings to no end. Now I just use the phone as it came out of the box, all I had to do was login to my google account.

      Last year I bought an iPad mini for casual web browsing. A living room widget which I thought would sync my iTunes library (doesn't, only what I bought from Apple). Turns out I tend to grab my phone when I want to do casual stuff because it's more convenient than the iPad - which at $500 or something doesn't even come with a fucking calculator, had to install a "free" one that has friggin ads. And the iPad constantly nags me for updates, more than Windows, and whatever answer I give to the update request I end up having to reenter my pin. It reminds me of how Android tablets were 3 years ago. Lousy maps, low quality music player, terrible camera.

      If Apple had kept their edge I'd have no problem paying for it. But for some reason although they have endless billions they can't seem to do basic QA and they do at best minor improvements while competition is leap frogging them. I mean, it has come to a point where a cheap Huawei device is more sophisticated than an iPhone. How did that happen.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    11. Re:All about Courage by lucm · · Score: 1

      So you approve of Apple warranty and customer service. That's like saying you're loyal to McDonalds because every time hey get your order wrong at the drive-thru if you go inside they are friendly when they fix their mistake and one time they even offered you a second apple pie for $1.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    12. Re:All about Courage by lucm · · Score: 1

      Yeah I guess I've become lazy since Google Play Music does sync things for me, including the iTunes library that I previously had to maintain just so I could copy music to retarded, overpriced iDevices. Another thing my $175 Android phone does better than my $500 iPad.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    13. Re:All about Courage by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Out of the 4-5 million Note 7s moved, 100 of them blew up. Let's double it for fun.

      That's still less than 1%.

      True, and it's also less than .005%

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  3. Refurbished by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

    Apple has been replacing touch diseased iPhone 6 Pluses with $329 refurbished ones

    Stay classy, Apple

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:Refurbished by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      What's the problem with that? Refurbished effectively is the same as repaired. Would people prefer to have their phones sent back to China for repair and wait 2 weeks? Or is this some sense of entitlement to a brand new phone I don't understand?

    2. Re:Refurbished by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple first sells the customer an expensive phone with a serious engineering defect, then adds insult to injury by replacing it by one infused with somebody else's snot. Nothing is done about the customer's wasted time or poor user experience. Classy or not classy? I leave that determination to the interested reader. Keep in mind that a new unit costs Apple much less than it costs the user.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:Refurbished by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      You would understand what the problem is with replacing with a refurbished phone is if you read the article. The refurbished phones can have the same defect.

      They are entitled to a phone that won't soon suffer the same problem, ie a phone that has had the defect corrected as opposed to someone else's problem phone that has been buffed, polished and repackaged.

    4. Re:Refurbished by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      one infused with somebody else's snot

      That's called second hand, not refurbished.
      Classy or not classy doesn't come into it. The sense of entitlement that people believe they should get a brand new phone is incredible. Maybe people should be forced to wait 3 weeks for a repair would that make you happier?

      Keep in mind that a new unit costs Apple much less than it costs the user.

      To say nothing of e-waste, inability to pass on a perfectly good device, and the idea that Apple should take a full 50% hit on margins everytime someone's device has a hiccup. Again not a single other company does this. Why do you expect it from Apple?

    5. Re:Refurbished by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You would understand what the problem is with replacing with a refurbished phone is if you read the article. The refurbished phones can have the same defect.

      And if the refurbishment suffers the same defect there's no reason to believe the new ones are any better. This was after all a design flaw. If it's been fixed and they are knowingly selling refurbed units with the fault then that is a very specific bit of asshattery that should be dealt with, it in no way implies that ever little problem should result in a brand new phone.

    6. Re:Refurbished by citizenr · · Score: 1

      The problem is they are NOT repairing the DESIGN DEFECT (thin bendy non supported PCB results in cracked BGA joints under touch sensing chip).
      Previous models had metal can (rf shielding) over the BGA chips, this metal can offered reinforcement and provided stiffness. But it added 0.1mm thickness, cant have that, in Iphone 6 Apple replaced metal can with a STICKER.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    7. Re:Refurbished by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      The sense of entitlement that people believe they should get a brand new phone is incredible.

      They expected to get a properly engineered device when it was new. They never did, instead Apple sold them Bendgate 2[tm].

      To say nothing of e-waste, inability to pass on a perfectly good device...

      Apple is free to sell the refurbished phone as a refurbished phone to somebody who doesn't mind sacrificing the shiny new experience to save a few bucks. To their poor abused Bendgate 2 customer, Apple ought to provide a shiny new phone (which doesn't cost them a whole lot) in an attempt restore their battered image. But whatever. It's no skin off my nose if Apple abuses its customers thus contributing to its market slide, quite the contrary.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:Refurbished by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      You don't know what "refurbished" means in Applespeak.

  4. You're touching it wrong by Lisandro · · Score: 2

    Seriously, how can you fuck up the touch experience on a touchscreen device?

    1. Re:You're touching it wrong by Lisandro · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can't because this "problem" is completely fictional.

      Funny, i had a chance to play with a iPhone 6 which was experiencing this same issue just this weekend. Must be seeing things.

    2. Re:You're touching it wrong by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Easy. Bend it.

      Your iPhone is a very expensive piece of precision computing technology. Put it in a hard case, and DON'T put it in your back pocket!

    3. Re:You're touching it wrong by Zxern · · Score: 3, Informative

      Weak solder and no support backing. Between heat cycling and flexing the FPGA solder weakens till it quits working.

    4. Re:You're touching it wrong by naughtynaughty · · Score: 1

      It's fictional in the same sense that the earth being a sphere is fictional to flat earthers.

    5. Re:You're touching it wrong by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Your iPhone is a very expensive piece of precision computing technology. Put it in a hard case, and DON'T put it in your back pocket!

      Better yet, always leave your iPhone at home on your bedside table. That way it will never bend. As a bonus it won't run out of power in less than a day.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  5. Never again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My wife and I both bought the 6+ when it came out.

    I'm on my 9th replacement unit. She's on her 7th.

    Every time we need to get our phones replaced, it takes about 1-2 days of messing around at the Apple store to make it happen. We've tried to get new phones (like, boxed units), but they won't do it. We always have to wait for a refurbished replacement. This is somewhat strange because I had a lemon MBP several years ago and after the third repair they just gave me a brand new machine. I know others who have had similar experiences with other Apple equipment- but not on the 6+. They simply flat out refuse to give us new phones.

    Furthermore, the quality of the refurbished units is below average to say the least. Some of mine have had scratches/dings/dents on the chassis (I take good care of my equipment, when I had to give them my original 6+ it was literally in NIB condition, so I think it's fair for me to expect a replacement device in equivalent condition). Others have had marks across the LCD screen. One had an intermittent headphones connector (good thing that's no longer a problem on the iPhone 7), one had an intermittent lightning connector, and yet another had a touch ID sensor that wouldn't work 100% of the time. Every time I get a new device, there appears to be more things wrong with it and the quality of the device OOTB seems to be lower than the one before it.

    It's pretty much a cluster fuck, and I'm wondering why we dropped over $1K/pop on a "premium" device only to be treated this way.

    We're both at the point where we just want reliable working hardware. We no longer care what that is, our brand loyalty towards Apple has been eroded over the years and the iPhone 6+ issues are just the icing on the cake.

    My current iPhone 6+ is already flaking out again (WiFi is intermittent, it keeps acting like airplane mode is enabled but it's not), I don't doubt it'll be long before I have to take it in again. Her iPhone is already showing signs of display corruption. We've both agreed that the next time we get them replaced, they're both going on Craigslist and we'll be switching to Android or some other hardware that we can at least depend on for 2-3 years of reliable service.

    Neither of us care about slimmer phones. We'd both happily pay upwards of $2K for a device that lasts a good 4-5 years with a battery that lasts more than a day of hard use. It's sad that Apple doesn't seem interested in taking our money, but there's not much we can do about that except to vote with our wallets, which is precisely what we'll be doing from now on.

    1. Re:Never again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We've both agreed that the next time we get them replaced, they're both going on Craigslist

      You're selling broken phones to people on Craigslist, but how dare someone sell a broken phone to you? You're part of the problem.

    2. Re: Never again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Get Galaxy S7... I switched to it from iPhone and it has been fantastic. Everything from build quality to the operating system to being able to just copy mp3s around without a bunch of bullshit has been revolutionary.

    3. Re:Never again. by Princeofcups · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My wife and I both bought the 6+ when it came out.

      I'm on my 9th replacement unit. She's on her 7th.

      Assuming that this story is correct, and the fact that most with the phone never experience the described problem, it is quite obvious that you are doing something destructive with your phones to get that many to fail.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    4. Re:Never again. by lucm · · Score: 4, Informative

      So it took 3 replacements of your Macbook and 16 replacements of your iPhones to erode your brand loyalty towards Apple?

      Maybe you need to join Al-Anon because you sir are an enabler.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re:Never again. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not necessarily. On the PCB there is a controller whose contacts eventually come loose and that is the fault here. The OP says he and his wife are both heavy users of their respective phones, which could indicate that the phones go through a lot of contraction - and expansion - cycles due to heating up and cooling down, thus likely hastening the process of those contacts coming loose. A user who doesn't use their phone that much also won't see the issue that quickly.

      I've experienced similar issues myself several times, like e.g. the tablet I have got replaced by the manufacturer after its WiFi-chipset lost contacts due to the tablet heating; the tablet had worked great for half a year or so, but I got the Android-version of X-Com and played it quite a lot, then during the middle of one play-session the tablet lost WiFi-connection. After rebooting the tablet WiFi was gone, the system couldn't find WiFi-hardware at all. And these old laptops I have: one of them had a loose connection to the display and one of them had the connections from the GPU to the PCB loose -- both fixed with a bit of a heat-gun applied at the right spot to reflow the solder.

    6. Re:Never again. by DraconPern · · Score: 2

      If you are having that many problems with that many devices, it's probably you and not the devices.

    7. Re:Never again. by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      They simply flat out refuse to give us new phones.

      And what would a new one give you? As far as anyone can tell it's a design issue. Do you think they just crank new ones out and throw the old ones away everytime someone reports a problem with the device? Be happy you get an on the spot swap and don't need to send it off for repair like nearly every other piece of electronics that suffers failure.

    8. Re:Never again. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Don't be a fucking moron, I'm not saying anything of the sort. I explained the issue and I am saying manufacturing-defects do happen. That's all.

    9. Re:Never again. by willy_me · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hell no. We are not talking about a 100W CPU/GPU, we are talking about a touch controller IC that uses almost no power. Thermal cycling due to regular use is not an issue. I am not saying that the solder connection is not to blame, just that the cause of the problem is not thermal cycling. If one is having repeated failures then they are obviously carrying the phone in such a way that it bends. The back pocket is the worst place to carry a phone, but the front pocket can also be bad. Some people do not even realize they are doing it. But one thing is certain, if you have 9 successive failures, it's you. Better odds of winning a lottery then having 9 successive failures -- or at least it is close.

      I noticed that the iPhone 7 is not any thinner then the 6+. A tiny bit thicker even. This bodes well for the durability of the 7 so it is possible Apple learned from their mistake. Not that the 6+ is defective, but it could definitely be stronger.

    10. Re:Never again. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I'm kinda surprised that Apple didn't stop replacing their phones. The only explanation is that Apple figured it wasn't the user's fault, and to be fair touch issues and WiFi being unreliable are known common faults in the 6+.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Never again. by GNious · · Score: 1

      As long as "carrying phone in back/front pocket" is standard procedure, phones should probably be designed to handle it, outside of people sitting down with their phone in the back pocket.

    12. Re:Never again. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The iPhone 6 requires about half the amount of force to bend as a comparable Samsung. Not sure about the 6+. You may recall there was a bit of a scandal at the time, the so called bendgate.

      It looks like that flexing is finally having an effect on the solder joints. People who wear tight clothing and keep the phone in their pockets are more likely to be affected.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Never again. by Imrik · · Score: 1

      To be fair, all but one of each of their phones were previously destroyed by someone else and sent back.

    14. Re:Never again. by Imrik · · Score: 1

      Successive failures in new phones would be rare, successive failures in phones that already failed once and got sent back are probably considerably more common.

    15. Re:Never again. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Many manufacturers do continuous improvement of their products during their lifetimes. Cars are well known for outwardly identical looking models being different under the bonnet, but actually most consumer goods are made that way.

      Additionally, quality control improves as issues are identified and tests for them developed.

      Unfortunately Apple don't seem to do this.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:Never again. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, the quality of the refurbished units is below average to say the least. Some of mine have had scratches/dings/dents on the chassis (I take good care of my equipment, when I had to give them my original 6+ it was literally in NIB condition, so I think it's fair for me to expect a replacement device in equivalent condition)

      Yes. If their "solution" to your problem is to replace your phone, then the replacement must not only have defects under warranty repaired;
      it also must not have any new damage or defects that your original phone did not.... that would mean they are introducing damage by swapping your phone, which would be extremely uncool if you take care of your equipment, and its condition such as scratches/etc affects your personal enjoyment of the use of that equipment.

      Scratches/dings/dents are definitely damage. That refurbished phone should not have been provided to a customer, unless that was disclosed, and the customer specifically purchased or approved to receive a phone with this damage.

    17. Re:Never again. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      You're selling broken phones to people on Craigslist, but how dare someone sell a broken phone to you? You're part of the problem.

      Not if he tells the people on Craigslist that the item they are purchasing will be a broken phone.

    18. Re:Never again. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Hell no. We are not talking about a 100W CPU/GPU, we are talking about a touch controller IC that uses almost no power. Thermal cycling due to regular use is not an issue"

      Thermal cycling is an issue for ANY electronic component; even quarter-watt LEDs get hot enough to melt themselves if not given proper thermal dissipation.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    19. Re:Never again. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I noticed that the iPhone 7 is not any thinner then the 6+. A tiny bit thicker even.

      No way. I was told without any uncertainty that the reason the headphone connector was removed was to make the device thinner! Are you telling me the iFans lied?

    20. Re:Never again. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Thermal cycling is an issue for ANY electronic component; even quarter-watt LEDs get hot enough to melt themselves if not given proper thermal dissipation.

      Erm no, electronics don't magically burn up. They can only use the power provided and for the vast majority of small signal devices thermal cycling is such a non-issue that many of the parts won't show up at all on a thermal camera. Claiming that all devices exhibit this problem is just plain wrong.

    21. Re:Never again. by edxwelch · · Score: 1

      Well, this is how the French react to bad service from Apple:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    22. Re:Never again. by citizenr · · Score: 1

      Assuming that this story is correct, and the fact that most with the phone never experience the described problem

      what do you think 'class action' means? most users DO experience this problem just like most macbooks with defective nvidia chips died. Those are design defects.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    23. Re: Never again. by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      That's the Galaxy Tab, different device.

    24. Re: Never again. by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      i mean Galaxy Note.

    25. Re:Never again. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Are you telling me the iFans lied?

      Not possible, the iPhone is fanless.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    26. Re:Never again. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Erm no, electronics don't magically burn up. They can only use the power provided and for the vast majority of small signal devices thermal cycling is such a non-issue that many of the parts won't show up at all on a thermal camera. Claiming that all devices exhibit this problem is just plain wrong.

      If the design is fragile enough, then ambient temperature changes can be enough over time to cause problems and even with low power dissipation, heat from neighboring devices will increase the temperature change.

    27. Re:Never again. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Erm no, electronics don't magically burn up."

      Uh, yea, they usually do. I can tell you've never released the magic smoke from a capacitor or resistor, or blown up a transformer, let alone done any EE design.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    28. Re:Never again. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There are other explanations. The 6 came out about two years ago, and they may still be on warranty or Applecare or something. Also, Apple is known for great and often generous customer service. Of course, the question I want to ask is exactly what that guy and his wife do with their phones, since they're statistical outliers big-time.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re:Never again. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      "Class action" doesn't mean most people had a problem. It means that a reasonably large number had a problem.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    30. Re:Never again. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If the design is fragile enough, then ambient temperature changes can be enough over time to cause problems and even with low power dissipation

      Nope still going with no. A device design may be fragile by design, but individual general purpose components used in consumer devices are entirely unphased through standard ambient temperature changes, especially given we're talking about non-high power devices here. Also if you're picking up heat from neighbouring devices then that's part of the general check and the reason you IR scan devices in the first place.

      So no under any normal and a myriad of abnormal cases "ANY" component is not affected.

    31. Re:Never again. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Actually I am an EE, and I've released plenty of magic smoke. Parts don't release magic smoke unprovoked. That's the reason datasheets publish things like absolute maximum ratings.

      And this is entirely beside the point since the direct response was to someone who said "Thermal cycling is an issue for ANY electronic component". What you're describing is not at all considered thermal cycling.

    32. Re:Never again. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      If you were an EE you'd know thermal cycling is an issue for any component from resistors to simple low-power LEDs. NOTHING IS IMMUNE TO THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    33. Re:Never again. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      If the design is fragile enough, then ambient temperature changes can be enough over time to cause problems and even with low power dissipation

      Nope still going with no. A device design may be fragile by design, but individual general purpose components used in consumer devices are entirely unphased through standard ambient temperature changes, especially given we're talking about non-high power devices here. Also if you're picking up heat from neighbouring devices then that's part of the general check and the reason you IR scan devices in the first place.

      So no under any normal and a myriad of abnormal cases "ANY" component is not affected.

      The reason I do not agree with you is because of my personal experience in designing circuits and laying out circuit boards. Even ignoring the occasional screwup by a parts manufacturer resulting in solder terminations failing or bond wires falling off after a few months, flexing of a circuit board or a mismatch in thermal expansion coefficient can cause all kinds of reliability issues. I hate to imagine what can go wrong with the denser BGA packages and there have been a number of reliability issues with them over a past few years.

    34. Re:Never again. by phorm · · Score: 1

      "it is quite obvious that you are doing something destructive with your phones to get that many to fail"

      Or it's just environmental. A lot of products are adversely affected by climate conditions etc that may lead to more issues in a given region. Cars in areas with high humidity may have more rust issues, especially if it's humid with high salinity. Some products don't like more arid areas as the "dry out"

    35. Re:Never again. by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      Anyone who buys the thinnest device they can find, and then leaves it in their back pocket when they sit down, deserves what they get! 8-P

    36. Re:Never again. by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      They might have had temperature swings imposed from outside. Could these phones have been regularly left in the windshield of a car in the summer sun? That might do it. But only if the solder joints were weaker than the ones I have worked with...

  6. Don't get the known faulty device, mkay? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why would you replace a defective device with one that you know will probably develop the same problem? Oh right, vendor lock-in. Told you so.

    1. Re:Don't get the known faulty device, mkay? by Lisandro · · Score: 2

      No. The point the GP is making is that you get to replace it with a different Android phone, with dozens of vendors offering very competitive models.

    2. Re:Don't get the known faulty device, mkay? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      The poster's story might have been made up, but he never claimed to have paid anything for refurbished phones. You aren't any more intelligent than he.

    3. Re:Don't get the known faulty device, mkay? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That costs money. AC didn't mention having to pay for anything.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. Geez, Upgrade Already. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

    The new shiney is out. Tradition at Apple is to tell people "you aren't still using that old junk, are you?"

  8. Maine Implied Warranty by pgn674 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Sounds like a violation of the Maine implied warranty law. I don't know what the state can do to Apple, but there is an Apple store in the state's largest mall.

    The Maine Implied Warranty is the little known law that protects Maine consumers from being sold seriously defective items. It can be an Unfair Trade Practice to refuse to honor the Maine Implied Warranty Law within four years of sale. The basic test for possible implied warranty violations is as follows: The item is seriously defective, The consumer did not damage the item, The item is still within its useful life and is not simply worn out.

    No class action needed.

    1. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by lucm · · Score: 1

      No class action needed. Because there's zero people affected by this fictional problem.

      Fixes that for you.

      You've basically replied the same kind of lame thing about 10 times iso far. I'm starting to wonder if you're not, in fact, a double agent secretly working for Samsung by pretending to defend Apple badly.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No class action needed.

      That depends on the specifics. Just because someone is replacing something for free doesn't mean it isn't a burden. Look up at the post that someone is on their 9th device and each time has to spend 1-2 days talking to apple, driving to the store, etc to get it replaced. Even with warranty replacement, being given a device as a result that is still defective is grounds for some kind of complaint as the point of warranty was to replace a defective device with a non-defective one. It doesn't sound like this is happening.

    3. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by DraconPern · · Score: 1

      But that law only applies in Maine, plus, you have to detail the design flaw, not just, 'It doesn't do what it was designed to do'.  I imagine the cost to get an engineer to essentially, reverse engineer the design, and to come up with a new design to show that the old design was flawed is going to be a bit expensive.

    4. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by lucm · · Score: 1

      Could be a paid shill getting money from both and laughing all the way to a small bank.

      OR Microsoft is about to announce a new phone and they're spreading mistrust and suspicion about their competition.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The AC is either fictionalizing or doing something strange to his and his wife's phones. This is way beyond the point of statistical believability. Warranties generally exclude abuse.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Abuse needs to be proven, this is difficult without evidence of damage.

    7. Re:Maine Implied Warranty by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it seems obvious to me that AC and wife have to be doing something unusual to their phones. Not knowing what it is, I can't speculate further, and it's likely that Apple can't prove abuse.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. Seems familier... by NormAtHome · · Score: 1

    I vaguely remember Dell going through something like this except is was bad capacitors that leaked and affected systems blue screen and Dell told the phone support people to "Do everything you can to blame it on the customer" and not to do any warranty replacements.

    1. Re:Seems familier... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Dell mainly uses the same Chinese production facilities that Apple uses.

      Of course, Dell didn't design said motherboards in a flexible case such that the capacitors were likely to become detached during ordinary use. Electrolytic Capacitors have always been one of the primary 'problem component' in electronic circuitry. For decades cutting cost corners on electrolytics has caused problems. Tantalum is damned expensive.

    2. Re:Seems familier... by NormAtHome · · Score: 1

      I was more comparing the company's strategies i.e. deny that a problem exists, do their best to do as few warranty replacements as possible and blame the customer when possible.

    3. Re:Seems familier... by lucm · · Score: 1

      If you can find a link for that I'd be curious to see it.

      Would it be possible that the story you recall involves HP instead of Dell? While HP will gladly sell garbage to anyone with a credit card, in my experience Dell is usually very customer-oriented. There's even a famous story of Dell chartering a jet to ship a replacement part to an important enterprise customer because the fastest Fedex wasn't fast enough.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    4. Re:Seems familier... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      GX270/280-era 'capacitor plague'. I forget the exciting story of industrial espionage and vendor shoddiness; but for some reason a lot of substandard electrolytic capacitors made it into the supply chain. They had a tendency to swell, leak; or just derate far faster than expected. When the capacitors are supposed to be part of the circuit that supplies the CPU with appropriately regulated power, this does wonders for reliability.

      It wasn't exclusive to dell, pretty much all desktop motherboards of the period used electrolytics, and the flawed capacitors were widespread; but they had a massive number of affected units and did their best to be total scum about honoring warranties, so they came off looking pretty bad.

    5. Re:Seems familier... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Luminous Town Electric, a capacitor manufacturer, hired a scientist who worked for Rubycon Corporation, another and rather more up-market capacitor manufacturer. As part of the 'unwritten' terms of employment, he was supposed to steal Rubycon's far superior electrolyte formulation, a trade secret mix of chemicals that make Rubycon's capacitors so good. But he screwed up - accounts differ as to if he made an error, or if Rubycon management found out about the industrial espionage and swapped the formula on file for a deliberately defective one. Either way, Luminous got hold of a dud - and, thinking they now had Rubycon's famous electrolyte formula, went straight into production without testing it. They made and sold a lot of capacitors before customers realised that the new Luminous capacitors were prone to explode after a while.

    6. Re:Seems familier... by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Colorado Memory Systems added a further refinement to this; delay accepting the diagnosis of a problem covered under warranty until the warranty period runs out.

  10. This Is What You Want.... by zenlessyank · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is what you get. It repeats over & over. We all know the difference between ignorant and stupid. Keep buying Apple so I can keep laughing at you and pre-judging you. When I see that logo I know I am dealing with an idiot. /discuss

    1. Re:This Is What You Want.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's a little bit intense of a reaction when it comes to someone's telephone brand selection, isn't it?

    2. Re:This Is What You Want.... by lucm · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why nobody yet has made a spoof of the 1984 Apple commercial, but this time instead of the obedient masses it would show Apple customers waiting in line for the new iPhone.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:This Is What You Want.... by Zumbs · · Score: 2

      Futurama did something like that. Try to search for furturama eye phone. You are welcome.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    4. Re:This Is What You Want.... by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      Never been to 4chan. Enlighten me.

    5. Re:This Is What You Want.... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Your language and an attitude would fit in nicely.

    6. Re:This Is What You Want.... by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      Not familiar with the concept of fitting in. Cults give me a rash.

  11. Justice by frovingslosh · · Score: 2

    Apple thought that they could just screw their loyal customers. But now with a class action suit the class action lawyers will make millions and the consumers will get $100 coupons that they can only use towards future Apple purchases (and then the cycle will repeat).

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  12. EULA by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    Pert damn near every EULA I've read bans the right to sue - and forces people to go to arbitration.

    So I'm sorta confused on how a class action law suit is happening.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re:EULA by Lisandro · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Has that ever been enforced? Just because it is plastered on a EULA doesn't make it legal.

    2. Re:EULA by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      There is no EULA for hardware. Yet.

    3. Re:EULA by mhotchin · · Score: 1

      How could you put a EULA on hardware? Nobody is claiming the apple software is defective (at least, not in this case).

      I buy a piece of hardware, it's mine. Done. There's no 'Licencing agreement'.

    4. Re:EULA by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      Try buying a new car and sign "decline to sign" on the EULA banning you from even complaining without arbitration.

      A car is hardware, and jeep-chrysler did stop a sale of a 2015 jeep Cherokee latitude until my mother signed to accept the EULA.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    5. Re: EULA by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      Ciations?

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    6. Re:EULA by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      What? Since when cars sell with an EULA attached?

    7. Re:EULA by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Try buying a new car and sign "decline to sign" on the EULA

      Sure gladly. But first you need to give me a EULA next time I try to buy a car. This is something I've never seen and I'm on my 3rd new car.

  13. Apple image tarnished a while ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple never used to be like this, they used to over engineer and produce rock solid products with top end hardware. But if you still believe that you've been drinking too much Apple juice. Apple today is sort of dying the same fate as Sony. Trying to cut corners to make a buck but living off it's past elitist moniker to keep margins up above others. You basically buying a Chevy that is priced like a Cadillac. Even Apple Care is less of a warranty then what it once was. Until some of these class action suits hit home and Apple product sales start to really falter. Apple will just continue its marketing behavior and ignore its customers. Actually the one thing that has saved Apple has been its forgiving customers, but even that is showing cracks.

    1. Re:Apple image tarnished a while ago by swb · · Score: 1

      When was this ever true? Apple ][+?

      I worked in advertising in the 1990s and we replaced Apple parts constantly. Even the Apple replacement parts were duds, our vendor got into the habit of sending two motherboards because about 1/10 would be literally missing components -- bare spots on the board.

      IMHO, the legend of Apple reliability is just a legend. The Scully era Macs were awful and prone to freezing -- whether that was hardware or software didn't really matter, but we always suspected hardware because it would happen on absolutely clean installs.

      The return-of-Jobs-era G3s & G4s were probably an improvement, but I'm sure that was about changes in management as much as some magical engineering prowess.

  14. Not built well by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    These days electronics, along with just about everything else, are not made to last. This is precisely why I buy cheap, easily replaceable Android smartphones. There is no point in spending 800 some dollars on an iPhone 6 Plus when you could just buy a laptop. I'm laughing at the sheep that buy the iPhone because it is perceived as a status symbol.

  15. Let's check the scenario by stevez67 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A person buys a $700 smart phone phablet that is ~7 mm thick. There are postings on the internet of the phablets bending under stress.They don't protect it with a case or they buy a flexible case for it. They know the phone is not unbreakable, not water-proof, fragile when dropped from height. They do something to bend the phone over and over and over for months. They're surprised when the phone begins to fail. They insist that they're "entitled" to have the phone they broke replaced with a new, or upgraded model, for free. Internet rage ensues. Brand warfare postings abound and flame-wars erupt. Hilarious.

    1. Re:Let's check the scenario by stevez67 · · Score: 1

      I forgot to mention the benevolent legal warriors who have stepped in, out of the goodness of their hearts, to lead a crusade against the vile manufacturer who dared to make a phablet that would fail under repeated abuse.

    2. Re:Let's check the scenario by RatPh!nk · · Score: 2

      Pretty much sums up this case. Please don't put long, thin phones in your (back, especially) pocket.

      --
      Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
    3. Re:Let's check the scenario by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      A person buys a $700 smart phone phablet that is ~7 mm thick. There are postings on the internet of the phablets bending under stress.They don't protect it with a case or they buy a flexible case for it.

      Are you saying the iPhone 7 is a defective device not suitable for general use unless a certain accessory is added? This is worthy of another lawsuit.

    4. Re:Let's check the scenario by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Anyone remember the overblown antenna issue with the 4S? I was going to buy a case for it, but Apple sent me one I liked for free.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re:Let's check the scenario by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The not so overblown issue that Apple acknowledged was a problem enough to make a custom device to resolve it? Yeah I remember that. Now where's my hardened titanium strengthening case to protect my bendy phone! The precedence is set! Sue away!

    6. Re:Let's check the scenario by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It was overblown, in that people seemed to assume it was a major problem for all iPhones. I had to lick my finger and deliberately short the antennas to notice any loss of signal. One of the original reports was from someone who reported it was a serious problem in one of the three phones they'd tested. It also depended on how the user held the phone, which is, unfortunately, not unusual. It appears to me to be a bonehead design decision (not that I'm an expert), and it affected some phones seriously when held in the way some users held them, but that's as far as it went.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  16. Apple's $5 billion campus by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Apple is building a new campus with Norman Foster that is estimated to cost $5 billion.

    It seems to me that Apple is degrading rapidly. It is apparently very difficult to get manager like Steve Jobs.

    1. Re:Apple's $5 billion campus by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      One of my former coworkers used to call it "building a monument to yourself".

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  17. iPod Touch by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

    I'm noticing the same symptoms on my iPod Touch. (I know, but I don't need a cell phone.)

  18. Re:My Schadenfreude boner is hurting. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    "I have gotten hundreds of emails from consumers who have had to buy new phones to replace their broken iPhone 6 Pluses."

    "Had to buy"?

    Was somebody holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to go to the Apple store?

    --
    No sig today...
  19. Re:My Schadenfreude boner is hurting. by alex67500 · · Score: 1

    New phones, not new iPhones. Never owned an Apple device, but if any other manufacturer treated me like that, you can bet your backside that I would have switched to a competitor for my next phone!