Slashdot Mirror
Baby Boomers Don't Have a Stronger Work Ethic Than Later Generations, Says Study (sciencedaily.com)
A team of U.S. researchers from Wayne State University in Detroit have published research in Springer's Journal of Business and Psychology that dispels the popular belief that baby boomers have a greater work ethic than people born a decade or two later. Science Daily reports: The economic success of the United States and Europe around the turn of the 20th to the 21st century is often ascribed to the so-called Protestant work ethic of members of the baby boomer generation born between 1946 and 1964. They are said to place work central in their lives, to avoid wasting time and to be ethical in their dealings with others. Their work ethic is also associated with greater job satisfaction and performance, conscientiousness, greater commitment to the organization they belong to and little time for social loafing. The media and academia often suggest that baby boomers endorse higher levels of work ethic than the younger so-called Generation X (born between 1965 and 1980) and Millennials (born between 1981 and 1999). [Keith Zabel, the lead U.S. researcher, and his team] compiled a dataset of all published studies that have ever used a U.S. sample to measure and report on the Protestant work ethic. Studies included in the meta-analysis had to mention the average age of the people surveyed. In all, 77 studies and 105 different measures of work ethic were examined using an analysis method stretching over three phases, each phase offered more precise measurement of generational cohorts. The analysis found no differences in the work ethic of different generations. These findings support other studies that found no difference in the work ethics of different generations when considering different variables, such as the hours they work or their commitment to family and work. Zabel's team did however note a higher work ethic in studies that contained the response of employees working in industry rather than of students.
Success is easy when half the rest of the planet had been firebombed and needed to rebuild all of its factories. On top of that a huge portion of the people who would have done said rebuliding were dead from war.
That was always the criticism of the Baby Boomers. That they didn't have the same work ethic as their parents.
teenagers to early twenty-something are almost always a poor example of a generation's work ethic.
once people end up in their thirties and have mouths to feed, they tend to work as hard as their parents once did.
OK, maybe they lasted longer too.
Yeah, like my Samsung washing machine! I've had that old thing for... wait, does anyone else smell smoke?
#DeleteChrome
Companies printed circuit diagrams on the inside of their hardware. Go open your HVAC, there's probably a circuit diagram on the inside.
Ford used to publish "This is how you fix our cars" and give it away. The knowledge was there.
Anecdotes? Whoa there, buddy, you're argument about a few people is clearly statistically significant! I guess we should discard what scientists say because it doesn't seem right to you.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I had two who worked out well, and even one of those ended up moving to be closer to Mums and Pops.
Once upon an time in America... three generations of a single family would often live under the same roof. With baby boomers retiring and everyone else struggling to make ends meet, multi-generational homes might become the norm again.
Millenials ar ethe hardest working most selfless generation ever put on earth.
As pointed out somewhere above, oldsters have been complaining about "these kids today" for millennia. But equally so and for equally long, kids have regarded oldsters as no better than idiots. "Ayn chadash tachat hashemesh" --- there is nothing new under the sun.
And yet I see people half my age bust their asses around the work place all the time.
Either way, anecdotal evidence is garbage.
If you're in a successful part of California though the combination of high property values and rents aggravate an already low unemployment rate which makes finding quality labor hard right now. There's other parts of the country where this is happening too. This is ultimately a good thing as we might see a bit of wage recovery for the middle class and *gasp* maybe a little growth in this category which would be refreshing after 5 or 6 decades of middle class shrinkage (outside a brief period in the 90's)
Maybe the problem is you're not doing enough to get quality employees? I'm not trying to be offensive here but your post denotes an attitude that isn't particularly pleasant to work under. Also, how's your pay? I know you think it's fair (everyone does) but how does it stack up versus local living expenses and what others are offering.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
Pretty sure when people talk about hard working generation they say "the greatest generation." The Baby Boomers were those slackers who listened to the Beatles, did drugs, and ran up credit card debt.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The US gave away its jobs to friendly nations. So the stability for many to find work and earn a living wage is gone in the USA.
What took a good educated 10% of the population is now a US brand as a front company with 1% needed. Even that is a global workforce invited in.
Designed in the USA, made anywhere cheap.
Everything of value that was good is gone. More new low wage jobs selling coffee, wine, beer, security every day and night?
Working for the gov/mil or been a mil contractor who enjoys no bid gov/mil work is not a long term solution given the private sector tax rates.
The US needs to rediscover good private sector jobs for its own citizens. Only the US private sector can create the kind of quality, reward and advancement that grows a nation.
Illegal workers have been allowed to flood the lower end of the jobs market to counter unions and be replaceable if any work place issues arise.
Student loans are based on every entry consideration but real merit and academic ability. Creating vast amounts of average graduates with safe, soft degrees in been "fun" years later is not what any advanced work force needs.
Good people still want to learn, study, work, better themselves, move up in society, do better than past generations when asked as always. But the option to do that has been reduced.
The few top university options based on years of hard work are been lost to very average students with no academic considerations.
Local jobs to even support a local college education are few and far between as older workers have to stay on and illegal workers are allowed to fill in.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
No energy. Your mom wore me out.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Wat? Since when is there a popular belief that 'boomers had a stronger work ethic? Say "boomer" and I'm more likely to think "protest" than "Protestant work ethic". AFAIK the more generally held view is that as long as they weren't traumatized by the Vietnam War, they lucked into an optimal economic situation and that's why they did better.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Aren't teenagers to early twenty-somethings the most representative on the internet?
Question is which came first, people not caring about having schematics and companies naturally saving wasted resources or trying to save money? What percentage complained when circuit diagrams were not glued to the inside of a tv? I know my uncle did, but he was a tv technician, I don't know of anyone else who did.
"They are said to place work central in their lives, to avoid wasting time and to be ethical in their dealings with others."
Because if there is one word that comes to mind when one examines the period of history the baby boomers wrought it would definitely be 'ethical'...
This is purely anecdotal, but my experience is that there isn't so much a generational correlation to work ethic as there is an age-based one. Which is to say, a person's work ethic can vary significantly over the course of their adult life.
What I've seen in my own workplace is new entrants (whether at graduate or non-graduate level) entering the organisation but generally (and of course there are outliers) without making a full commitment to it and, particularly in the case of graduate entrants, trying to keep their student lifestyle running for a few more years. Over time, usually by the late 20s, this transitions into a much stronger work ethic; more time spent in the office and more "commitment" to the organisation. Eventually, somewhere usually in the 50s, this lapses into a degree of burnout. Now, all of the above is a huge generalisation and based on personal experiences only, but I've seen a couple of generations go through that cycle now.
Of course, there's a far bigger correlation between work ethic and social class. Behaviours liked to worth ethic, such as the ability to focus on deferred reward have a strong hereditary component, whether based on biology, culture or both. Again, there are exceptions, but this is where I've seen the strongest correlation. In the mid-2000s (at the height of the UK's New Labour touchy-feely period) I worked for an employer which took part in a Government-subsidised scheme to give placements to "disadvantaged" young people. This was actually a pretty cushy detail; the pay for those brought in through the scheme wasn't huge, but it was significantly above the minimum wage (almost £10/hour) and the work was white-collar administrative. Moreover, there was an expectation in place that if you did well, you would be able to turn it into a full-time job (this was in the land of silly-money before the big crash, when the UK economy appeared to be in full boom). Hell, there wasn't even much of a dress code beyond "use your common sense and don't wear anything that would actively harm our reputation".
I was involved with this scheme for three consecutive years, once as a mentor and twice as one of the "lucky" managers "given" one of the apprentices (yes, there was a degree of corporate arm-twisting). Across all three years, with an intake of 8-10 people per year, not a single one stuck with it for more than 2 months. The simple basics of being expected to get into the office at a sane time (we had a flexitime-within-reason system), to come into the office every working day and to follow the instructions of a manager once in the office were too much for the participants.
take everything with a grain of salt. Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science Study Finds: Studies Are Wrong:
Another thing is those employers who appear to try hard to give themselves problems.
Unpaid trial periods are a thing for some places, but they just do not seem to get that they are selecting for people who can afford not to work and can behave like the characters the GP is describing. However each time they get disappointed they go out of their way to discourage the sort of people who will work hard and stick around.
The sort of employees they actually want look at the prospect of no money for a while and decide it's pointless when they are good enough that other employers will actually be paying them something elsewhere.
The "Greatest Generation". A bunch of over-indulgent assholes whose failings brought about the "greatest" depression.
The "Silent Generation". Raised post-depression. Extremely hard workers. Why? Because their aging parents left them no legacy except for care for them, pay for the welfare state, and fight in at least two wars. Nice.
The "Baby Boomer" generation. Another over-indulgent, entitiled, asshole generation. Why? Because their parents (the silent generation) swore that they'd never make their kids go through what they themselves had to go through. So they gave them everything.
The "X" generation. Another hard-working generation. Why? Because their parents (the baby boomers) are too busy indulging their self-entitles asses to actually care about raising their kids. Gen X-ers have had to bear low wages. Outsourced industries. And an income gap that is worse that it has ever been since ancient Egypt.
The "Millenial Generation". Another over-indulgent, self-entitled, bunch of lazy assholes. Why? Because their parents (the X generation) swore that they'd never make their kids go through what they themselves had to go through. Millennials have been doted over, helicoptered, and are living with their parents as adults at levels not seen since the Great Depression.
There's clearly a pattern. The "Greatest Generation" fucked the country. The "Silent Generation" brought it back. The "Baby Boomers" fucked the country. The "X" generation will bring it back. The "Millenial Generation" will fuck up the country. And their children will bring it back. And so on... and so forth...
I suspect they aren't looking at this quite the right way. Employers used to exhibit some degree of commitment to their employees. Ethical employees returned that commitment with loyalty and hard work.
Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Most employers these days are conscienceless vampires who would cheerfully burn their employees' children in an incinerator if it would put a few extra bucks on their bottom line. So why would a sane person feel they owed their employer one little bit more than the least they could get away with?
For a while, I think, habit ensured that the Boomers' work ethic kept them working harder. But as they came to realize all the extra work got them nothing but a "Sucker" sticker in their HR folder, they adapted to become just like their younger workmates, who have never known anything else.
Yes, there are still great employers, but they're getting awfully hard to find. I bet their employees, no matter what age they are, will work hard for them.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Baby boomer are full of shit, and their "we worked harder than you" are full of shit on average. The reality is that they are like us (ethically) but had it easier economically.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
No energy. Your mom wore me out.
I've never really understood this as an insult. I mean, my mum's what 75? Chances are, she got the better part of that deal.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Most of them are now in politics and academia.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
People have always been somewhat greedy and self serving. You could probably argue that the generation that lived through the war was unique in that they saw first hand the end game for zero-sum conflicts, and decided to find out how to grow the pie rather than fight over their neighbours slice.
What is really causing all those problems you describe is demographics. Western populations are ageing fast, and with that goes any economic growth from population increase. This means that companies cannot simply grow their profits by 3% a year thanks to more people buying and consuming. If they spend on a new plants, or hire a new worker, they cannot rely on a level of base line growth to make the investment work. Indeed, they may find that sales start shrinking, forcing them to idle capital and lay off workers.
Further compounding this natural slow down in growth is that boomers are all freaking out about how they will pay for retirement. This has created the savings glut, as income is not recycled back into the economy through spending or borrowing. The result of this is a giant global asset bubble.
We are basically screwed at this point. Growth will not return to the economy because population ageing is only getting worse, and technology is acting as a circuit breaker for firms to chase their costs down in a stagnant market.
The ONLY solution to the mess is for people to sit down and discuss what the whole point of the economics machine is. Because whatever it was meant to be doing before, it isn't doing now, and it won't be doing that again. I suspect that most boomers would be happy to trade playing the casino markets in the hope of scoring a decent retirement for an explicit guarantee of basic needs by the state. This will reduce the pressure to save. Next their needs to be a much more strategic investment into the things boomers will need in the next couple of decades - things like retirement homes and healthcare workers. At this point we should basically be offering anyone who is smart enough to be a doctor investment banker sort of money, because that is likely to be what it will cost to get a doctor once the boomer healthcare bulge hits.
Instead of trying to plan our way through this difficult transition, lazy governments are leaving it 'to the markets' who are not solving the problem at all, but rather hiding it under the illusions of debts that will never be paid back.
The boomers are the post-war generation of spoiled hippie brats. It's their parents, the ones who lived through the depression and the second world war, that had the work ethic.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The difference is, though, that nobody expected you to have the answer instantly. People expected that you knew a few things and would look the rest up, in the library behind you or even after a day or two when the relevant papers arrived at your desk. Today, you're expected to either know the answer or know where to find it. Now. Instantly. And if I don't have a reply mail from you in 10 minutes, you'll get a call asking if you dare to ignore me, you little twerp.
That's the difference.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Nah, I just threw the lithium in with the laundry. Like the detergent, you know? Why?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hope for electrocution, for our lawyers will not be so kind when we find out you tried to hack our device and circumvent some patent!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Universities have spent many millions of dollars trying to give the snowflakes a crash course in becoming adults
That problem is solved now, universities get "safe spaces" and anti-microaggression lectures, lest some snowflakes melt.
I think next step would be to child proof the work places.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You mean that we have the expectation that people we pay to work for us should, you know, work for us? What we need them to do? Yeah, I have to admit, we kinda do have that sort of expectation.
Maybe we're wrong and we should pay people to update their Facebook status, twitter their latest dump and instagram the junk on their work desk. Could you inform me how to monetize that, though? Because else we first of all have to get a new economy system in place, that model collides head on with capitalism.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I think that in most cases, if employees felt safe in their jobs, they'd do better work. That Millennial who seems to be "slacking" because they won't put in 90 hour weeks for years on end just sees what's going on. SV startups live on fresh college kids who haven't experienced what it's like to work in an unstable environment or for a hostile employer. Older Millennials are more cynical, just like older people of other generations.
Restoring the balance of employer/employee loyalty would be a good start if employers want a more productive workforce. Smart people see employers who will replace them at the drop of a hat and don't put in the extra effort as a result. Previous generations had some employers who would employ you for life...IBM had a no-layoff policy for ages and there are legions of people who worked for large employers like this their entire careers. In return, their employees were loyal, worked hard, put in extra hours where needed, etc.
Unfortunately, I can't see this happening any time soon. Back in the 60s/70s, the US was quite different. Absolutely everything was manufactured domestically, there was very little foreign competition, only 3 car companies of note, etc. And, companies needed thousands and thousands of people just to move paperwork around the organization, all of whom had stable jobs. Now, we manufacture very little, offshore well-paid technical jobs, and companies just keep squeezing harder to get those pennies out of their operational processes.
What do you mean "become"? They ARE the norm already in many cases. How many people actually have the money to move out? "Living in your mom's basement" may be the staple of nerd and neckbeard jokes, for some people it's the uncomfortable truth simply because they can't earn a wage high enough to afford their own apartment.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Baby boomers to Gen X to Millennials? I feel so disenfranchise, and angry that this study llumpsme in with those slacking Millennials.
GenY for ever.
...and very late to turn up to the fucking fight as usual.
The zinger is in the last sentence of the summary "Zabel's team did however note a higher work ethic in studies that contained the response of employees working in industry rather than of students."
In every generation there is a bell curve of workers. Half of all workers are worse than average and more than half are less than exceptional. As people get older, the less than exceptional workers tend to get replaced by younger and cheaper (not always more talented) workers. Thus those in the older generation that remain are often better workers, or very good a brown nosing.
Both my children are far more serious than I was at their age.
I dropped out of UC Berkeley in 1982 (was a Physics major) because I was too stupid to understand that while university wasn't what I had thought it was going to be, it was still the best way to discover the stuff that would interest you for the rest of your life. I stumbled through the first year there, barely matriculating due to an idiotic policy at the time (maybe still extant)- first come first served enrollment in courses - courses that were mandatory for my major. WTF is up with that ?, surely if they're mandatory, I am just automatically enrolled in them; why the fuck should I have to queue up for hours to enroll ?
Anyway, my kids are much more alert to this kind of thing than I was, they are somehow more used to negotiating these types of issues, and playing them to their advantage. They party less. They work with more enthusiasm for their jobs, which they have chosen because they are genuinely interested in them, rather than for the money.
I spent my youth in a cloudy, dream state - which wasn't bad, I'll admit - until I woke up at about age 20 and realized that I had better get my ass in gear and get something done with my life. Even then it took a 6 year stint in the US Navy to turn myself around and become anything like my children are at an earlier age.
Perhaps they have benefited from me explaining some more of the fundamentals of life to them better than my parents did me - although I don't think that's the case. None-the-less, they are certainly nowhere near as lazy as I was, and more conscientious about their place in society too.
Perhaps they're a bit special for their generation, but my experiences with their friends tells me they're not. I have high hopes that their generation will clean up a lot of the mess brought on by my parent's and my generation.
Now that's funny !
Ford used to publish "This is how you fix our cars" and give it away. The knowledge was there.
They do still publish it, but you have to pay the cost of production. The Ford manuals tend to come in multi-volume sets and have a lot of data in them, so paying a couple hundred bucks is not out of line on that basis. Unfortunately, they are also poorly indexed, so actually finding things in them is frustrating beyond belief.
Better to buy a Nissan, which takes less fixing. They also come with a cheaper, better service manual.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Ok, let's blame it on those that could have done a better job expanding our cities in the past couple years. Let's see, who would that be, who's in charge of politics, economy and media...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Said study was conducted by millenials. Two of them got together and talked about this one morning while playing games on their phones and reached the conclusion. Then a baby boomer was hired with a loan from dad to write it up.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
It can't be rape if money changes hands.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Did..did they never teach you how to shut off the main breaker in your house? lol
Another thing is those employers who appear to try hard to give themselves problems.
Ain't that the truth...
Unpaid trial periods are a thing for some places,... However each time they get disappointed they go out of their way to discourage the sort of people who will work hard and stick around.
I'm passed the point in my career where anyone would ask me for an unpaid trial period. I do occasionally get called by people trying to recruit me. I have a decent track record in a reasonably niche field, so it's not much of a brag.
Anyway I generally explain what it is I'm currently doing and that I'm currently quite busy. They invariably seem to want me to go through the completely standard, very time consuming interview process with coding exams and so on and so forth as if I'm a normal applicant. They don't seem to understand that I didn't apply because I wasn't that interested and if they're trying to poach me, then they have no chance when then then expect me to go and do a bunch of work I'm not interested in when I'm busy.
It seems that all their "poaching" process is is to try to encourage randos to apply for a job there. I mean it might work for people who had low enough self-confidence that they believed such a company could never be interested in them, but as a general recruitment strategy it's kind of mediocre.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The solution to all of society's problems is to fucking string you up and put a bullet in your head, capitalist pig.
And you're a millennial, probably.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It can't be rape if money changes hands.
I've lost track of who's the customer and who's the service provider.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The millennials intrinsically know the game is rigged against them.
Wah!
Oh, and every generation invented sex too. The game is rigged, and has been for a long time. When I first entered the workforce, the "common knowledge" was that there was no point in saving for retirement, inflation and jeebuz chryste we were all gonna die when the bombs are a-flyin overhead. So our go-go generation largely screwed itself over by acting in their own worst interests down the road.
The only thing not in short supply for so many of you is self pity. My generation had it as well, with the young males looking forward to involuntary conscription and the chance to get fucked up or killed in southeast Asia. You have to worry about being out of cell phone range.
Go to school and have a 50\50 shot of coming out of it with a good enough job to pay off the debt, work 2 to 4 jobs and try to move up in the world without an education and try to move up at a good company, or stay at home with Mom and Dad. Those are your choices.
Bullshit on the second, but let's back up a little.. The cost of education is a true problem that young people - actually everyone - have today. After decades of belittling anything but a 4 year college degree, where a bachelor's degree in philosophy or womyn's studies was touted as superior to a machinist, plumber or other blue collar work, and the willingness of people to pay for the worthless fields of study, we've reached the endstage where the economics are not there.
But even there, you don't have to play the game if you are willing to think for yourself. Way back whne in the early 70's against the demands of my high school advosors, and even a sit down with the principle and cautions sent to my parents, I took both academic and vocational (electronics) majors in High School. Served me well throughout life.
Have a male child today, what's his chances of procreating? 50\50. You tell me how you're going to manage that many impoverished, pissed off, and heavily armed men.
That's a social construct, definitely not one made by my generation. Its the overshoot of the feminist movement, where young ladies have been taught that sexual harassment is almost anything they don't like. https://www.bustle.com/article...
Where a wolf whistle is accorded the same level of seriousness as full blown sexual assault.
That posters comment is just one.
Meh, people have been telling me to die in a fire since I was in grade school. Don't act like millennials invented raging.
Pew researches studies on marriage and rates people are having kids are pretty conclusive here if you care to look.
And I agree. Even way back when, I put my limit at 1 offspring. After that it was snip snip.
There's millions of people who are stark raving mad, just like the above poster. They are enjoying what time they have left before an economic crash or collapse. 2nded the bullet in the head comment. 100% what millennials feel about how they've been fucked over.
Oh golly gosh. Your attitude is characteristic of how millenials have been fucked over, but not in the way you think it is.
Raised by parents who might have been well meaning, but have done immense damage to you by not allowing you to grow up. I've seen millennial children in diapers until they started preschool, as their parents tried to slow the growing up process. I've seen millennial children not have a free moment among themselves as they were shuffled off from one lesson, sport or camp, always under the strict supervision of an adult. Never an unsupervised moment. Then it was made worse by the self esteem movement, where children were taught they, the singular chi
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Given that Baby Boomers are retiring and approaching retirement, can the researchers honestly say they have evaluated them objectively? Did they evaluate them 20, 30, 40 years ago when they were in their prime?
You mean that we have the expectation that people we pay to work for us should, you know, work for us? What we need them to do? Yeah, I have to admit, we kinda do have that sort of expectation.
I think that part of the self esteem movement has inadvertently inculcated some of the youngsters with the idea that they are to be lavishly rewarded for minimal output. When you are constantly praised for simple tasks like tying your shoes, actual work demands a parade in your honor. I had one young lady who took several months vacation (mostly unpaid since she accrued it at a day and a half per month) in the first year, spent hours a day on facebook, when given work tried to assign it to the older folks, and was expecting a promotion after a year. Didn't get it, so she quit and moved in with Grams and Gramps.
At least that kept us from having to fire her.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Anecdotes? Whoa there, buddy, you're argument about a few people is clearly statistically significant! I guess we should discard what scientists say because it doesn't seem right to you.
Its a data point, and one shared by others. It's shared as well by universities, who are spending that money to retrain students and especially their parents
You want references? Need data? Of course in social matters what constitutes data is ephemeral but here goes:
http://counseling.uoregon.edu/...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://news.fsu.edu/news/educa...
http://newsinfo.iu.edu/web/pag...
I can give you hundreds more, so label Universities as trolls and call each one irrelevant.
My anecdotes - and I can give you more - merely corroborate the larger experience. Point is, young adults come out with unrealistic expectations, have not been allowed to grow up and have trouble making their own decisions, and are prone to depression and disappointment, and their parents are the cause.
They are damaged goods, and will need a decade of trying to sort out what they should have learned since childhood. Don't blame your grandparents, and don't blame yourselves. But blame only goes so far, so ya gotta pick yourselves up and move on.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Actually, you've got the right idea but there's a problem word here: "Ethic."
If the employer is not fully committed, then an ethical employee should not be fully committed, either. You actually are seeing a functional work ethic even in shitty jobs. It's ethical, just also .. maybe regrettable.
I wonder if the jargon term "work ethic" was coined by people who were trying to take ethics out of the discussion, by advocating for an asymmetric relationship. We should stop using that term; it's too loaded.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
The Boomers benefited from the reforms of the New Deal
You've mis-spelled 'the post-war economic boom that resulted from being the winning side in WWII'
Which, incidentally, is what rescued the US economy from FDR's disastrous economic 'reforms.'
You mean that we have the expectation that people we pay to work for us should, you know, work for us? What we need them to do? Yeah, I have to admit, we kinda do have that sort of expectation. Maybe we're wrong and we should pay people to update their Facebook status, twitter their latest dump and instagram the junk on their work desk.
I notice you didn't list Slashdot there. I've got to wonder what percentage of people having this discussion are posting from work.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
"Ayn chadash tachat hashemesh" --- there is nothing new under the sun.
What language is that? Sounds cool at any rate.
Andto be certain, my actual complaint isn't about the millenials, its about their parents who screwed them up. The millenials get pissed at me because their upbringing doesn't allow for criticism, so they hear something not completely positive and it enrages them.
And before the next wave of the shitstorm arrives, kids, of course the whole issue is dealing in generalizations.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It's the same reason the Army makes people get up early in the morning and do PT, then trains them to do absolutely nonsensical things like crawl through mud and climb obstacles. It's not really about physical fitness - if that were so, they'd insist they all pump iron until they rippled with muscle, and that's not many of the soldiers I know. What it is about is being able to do the nasty hard work when the time comes, and the discipline to make yourself do it. It's up to your brain to figure out when that moment is.
My stepfather was an Italian guy from Brooklyn who had been a failure at every real job (except being a soldier in Korea) he ever had because he was a conniver, a schemer, and a con artist. Then he found his calling - appliance service. It mostly called for selling people way more appliance parts than they needed. If you had a busted defrost timer in your refrigerator, he'd sell you heating elements, a condenser fan motor, the timer and then charge you to vacuum up the dust in the condenser coils (you should really do this yourself if you can...it improves the efficiency of the refrigerator immensely). Then he'd have these women tipping him for doing it all with a nice dose of sweat, while he pocketed $200 extra from them for the additional parts which were largely unnecessary. He trained his son to do the same thing, and he did. I just was along for the ride and it wasn't my calling. I'm not an effective con artist.
Now, you might say that had nothing to do with hard work, but it actually did. He had to get his ass up every morning at 0600 and work his ass off until usually about 1800, then do dinner and work some more afterward most days. He'd do his sales calls at night to people's houses. During the day, he'd do everything in the shop - service calls sometimes (as I described), but would haul around big appliances, rip out washer transmissions, bring big loads of scrap stuff to a metal recycler to make some money off of the hulks, and always keep himself looking good so that if someone came to the front desk, he could bullshit them into buying something without looking like a slob. Besides doing a lot of the carpentry and finish work required to keep the showroom looking good. No one worked harder than he did. When he was home he'd wear cutoff denim shorts and drink Jack Daniel's lying on the bed watching TV mostly.
He just knew when to turn it on and turn it off. I do something similar myself, but with less lying involved. Therefore, i'm less successful. But if you couldn't motivate yourself to the extreme efforts required sometimes, you'd never get anywhere.
That's my big complaint about the slothful mass of youth today. They'll get better (hopefully), but they have a lot of lazy counterexamples today, so I wonder if they would know that the ability to work very hard in the pursuit of a goal is the arbiter of success.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
I can give you hundreds more, so label Universities as trolls and call each one irrelevant.
hundreds out of tens of millions? that's at least 0.01% of them! oh my, so many!
Point is, young adults come out with unrealistic expectations, have not been allowed to grow up and have trouble making their own decisions, and are prone to depression and disappointment, and their parents are the cause.
my point is that the exceptions are not the rule.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
What do you mean "become"? They ARE the norm already in many cases. How many people actually have the money to move out? "Living in your mom's basement" may be the staple of nerd and neckbeard jokes, for some people it's the uncomfortable truth simply because they can't earn a wage high enough to afford their own apartment.
I dunno. My son is one of the millennials, and while we don't all have complete control over our progeny, He's married now, supporting himself and his wife and the twins. The wife and I are generous to them, but even if we didn't, they'd do just fine.
Seeing the problems that the helicopter parents were instilling, I made certain that he had exposure to the time to interact with other kids in a setting where an adult wasn't correcting every problem. He got to learn how to deal with problems. He also got to learn how to be self reliant, which went a log way toward getting and keeping a job and supporting himself. His first jobs weren't in his field, and his first place wasn't lavish by far. But as time goes on, he moves up. That's pretty much how I did it too. The goal is the goal, not the starting place.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
a couple hundred bucks = the cost of production????. that's gotta be one hell of a book.
It's a multi-volume set (my 1992 F250 is four volumes in total) and the dealers don't get them for free, either.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Welcome to the entitlement generation where everyone is a winner and awards are given for showing up.
That's not to say, though, that there are good people in this generation that know that working 40 hours a week isn't an unreasonable expectation, and that work doesn't mean updating Facebook and informing the world about the contents of their desk drawers. We do have a lot of young people who are eager to work, eager to learn and eager to move this world.
Just like with every generation there's quite a bit of chaff among the wheat. It's not like it was any different with us, and looking at the Boomer generation, it certainly wasn't any different for them either. In the end, though, what you will have in your office is what's left when the chaff has been shed.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I am. Right now. Work is a mix of stress and boredom for me, with little in between. Right now it's boredom, you just missed an hour of stress.
Welcome to the wonderful world of security.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Please allow me the honor of Googling that for you. http://www.malvernejc.org/rabb...
From the opening blurb.
"Zabel's team did however note a higher work ethic in studies that contained the response of employees working in industry rather than of students. "
That makes the title very misleading.
Look- I'm a late boomer and I have to say this is almost a literally dead issue. I'm already retired. I know several other boomers who are retired.
And I can say from experience, the young kids are distracted by the latest fads and office romance in a way boomers are not. There was a clearer, brighter line between work and personal life for most of boomer's lives. It's not fair to judge kids who grew up in an environment where work is a 24 hour a day thing to keep up with their personal lives during "work" time. Because work sure as hell infringes on their "life" time.
Likewise, kids are growing up in an environment where they have a more realistic assessment of how companies are going to use and dump them. Loyalty WON'T be rewarded and they know it. It used to be when the boomers were developing their habits.
but anyway- the title is misleading if the last sentence in the summary is true. Big shock-- this is slashdot.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Commendable, but rare. Sadly, many people who grow up today come out into reality (after living with helicopter parents for most of their life and "safe space" colleges for the rest) and think the world owes them something for their mere existence.
I'm not saying that this is the normal case (yet... I have that feeling that they get more the older I get), but I do get some applicants that really think the world revolves around them and that I should feel blessed for them to even show up for the interview.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Today they are, but in 10 years won't they be thirty-something?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Where did you find a model that runs on Lithium batteries?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/201...
#DeleteChrome
I don't know which ones are worse, the ones that think they're entitled to a "retirement" or the ones who don't have the good grace to die off and make some room for youngsters in the labor force.
So I suppose it's safe to say that when it comes time for you to shuffle off your mortal coil, you'll slip yours without complaint and make your passing as convenient as possible for the kids.
That being the case, why not save them a few thousands of bucks and take care of that little detail now?
Charter Member of The Committee Group For The Elimination And Eradication Of Repetitive Redundancy
I speak from experience... Even with the breaker off, a capacitor can still deliver a nasty electric shock.
For fun, disassemble a disposable camera with the battery out. Only getting its power from a removed AA battery, the process can be.... electrifying.
Did..did they never teach you how to shut off the main breaker in your house? lol
Notice how he stuttered? This is the result when you have to learn that lesson the hard way...
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
And yet I see people half my age bust their asses around the work place all the time.
Either way, anecdotal evidence is garbage.
Y'all crack me up wih anecdotal evidenc is worthless bullshit. Everything is anecdotal evidence.
You are confusing data points with non truth. Allow me to make this clear to you. All of the exploding phones put out by samsung have not had a double blind rigourous testr process to teliminate all ofhter possibilities that eliminated every other possibility for the reports of them catching fire. This is truth.
NOw you are saying that every person that reported "My phone caught on fire is garbage, and means nothing. Each of those reports was an anecdote, therefore you in your wisdom can claim that there is no scientific evidence that SamSung S7 phones have any problem whatsoever, therefore thw batteries do not catch on fire.
All of the phones that burned up were not done under rigourous laboratory condition so any conclusions ore pointless, the phones are 100 percent safe.
So bullshit.
The Universities that have multiple instances of student's parents interfering with the university's functions, such as trying to have professors fired because the child didn't like them are get ready for this Anecdotal evidence, not proven by strict scientific studies. So in your jugement bullshit and garbage.
Here re some non scientific anecotal evident for ya Complete with a lot of references
http://www.law.uh.edu/ihelg/mo...
Total bullshit, you might say, as not each single anecdote which is garbage has not been totally proven. right? I mean you have to be rigorous right?
I have two finals things to say. My data points, of approximately 20 unsuccessful and semi successful 3 and 2 successful millenial candidates are just that. Data points that agree with a lot of other data points. And when a lot of data points agree with other data points, you are probably on to something.
And finally, give me the rigourous scientific proof that concludes that all anecdotes are garbage. otherwise you are just giving your opinion, and last time I checked, opinions are not necessarily the truth, and certainly not scientific proofs.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Another thing is those employers who appear to try hard to give themselves problems. Unpaid trial periods are a thing for some places, but they just do not seem to get that they are selecting for people who can afford not to work and can behave like the characters the GP is describing. However each time they get disappointed they go out of their way to discourage the sort of people who will work hard and stick around. The sort of employees they actually want look at the prospect of no money for a while and decide it's pointless when they are good enough that other employers will actually be paying them something elsewhere.
For what it's worth, we paid well, Market value for the area + reoughly 20 percent, we did 1.5 or 2 days per month vacation, unlimited sick leave, and maternity and paternity leave, a choice between defined contribution and defined benefit pension plan, as well as being able to take advantage of non-profit status for having multiple pension plans outside of the one's offered. Workplace longevity outside of the millenials was good. I was there over 30 years, and people actively tried to get employed there.
IOW almost everyone actually wanted to be employed there, and wanted to stay there and retire from there.
Except for the millennials. The had a horrible time fitting in, and most left to go back home after burning out. One possibility was that all workplaces have some shit ya gotta shovel. Not everything about the work was perfect. I had things I hated doing, and everyone did. But I'd conjecture that some of the younger folks fixated on the negative aspects of the work, and mom and dad couldn't swoop in and protect them from it.
And even though the millenials here see me as attacking them - I'm not. I'm attacking their parents who didn't add growing up to their growing up. A child can remain childlike through their entire life if you allow them to. These poor kids got through college before they had to become adults, and it is terribly hard on them.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You know most of the baby boomers, I've worked with, have been hard working. However I have worked more with the older boomers than the younger ones.
It might be a bit self selecting, if they weren't hard working would they still have a good job where you might meet them?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Nobody said the Millennials were harder working, just that the Baby Boomers were overly proud of an accomplishment that wasn't true.
.
You'll notice that in my posts, I often write about my differences with my generation, regarding financial and social responsibility. I did not act like them. Yeah, a lot of us protested, especially the earlier ones. All generations ag through some issues when they are coming of age. Boomers, GenXer's, Milleniums are no different in that respect.
What is different is that altogether too many of the millennials, in my estimation as a result of well meaning but overprotective and poor parenting, are allowing themselves to fall into the trap of blaming their grandparents, not their parents, and not having the chutzpah to go out and take life by the horns.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Notice where GP specifically mentioned a PDF.
Notice where GP specifically mentioned a PDF.
Dealers get the data as part of a subscription, in the form of a software package intended to enforce DRM. That costs even more. (It's also not effective at DRM, but that's another argument.) And only a portion of the production cost is printing. It costs a lot to develop a service manual.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I found this out on a high school trip. I knew that disposable cameras just had a regular film canister inside them and one of my friends didn't believe me so I took to opening mine once I was done with it. It was the model with a flash and as I used the metal pocket knife to pry the plastic case open my whole right arm up to my neck suddenly convulsed involuntarily causing me to drop the knife and camera. I generally knew about capacitors but really didn't know enough about them to think about the possibility that it would be waiting for me. After a bit of surprised cursing, I picked up the camera and looked at where I had the knife and saw two the two leads going to the flash. Using the knife, insulated by something this time, I touched the metal blade across both leads and was treated to a loud pop and flash of light from the arcing current. The knife blade, much to my friend's chagrin, had two divots where it had arced. That was without the battery in. I then used this knowledge to add wires coming out in the shape of a taser like device and though it didn't have nearly the power to arc like a taser, it did very well to cause not-quite-skin-damaging pain to various friends at school. We had a lot of fun with that for a couple weeks.
Universities have spent many millions of dollars trying to give the snowflakes a crash course in becoming adults
That problem is solved now, universities get "safe spaces" and anti-microaggression lectures, lest some snowflakes melt.
I think next step would be to child proof the work places.
That's going to come to an end here, as the tyranny of the overly sensitive is getting a huge backlash as teh snowflakes demand that only thier oppression is allowed, and nothing they disagree with is allowed.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Really?
Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony.
For starters your examples arent even anecdotal. A phone catching fire certainly isnt anecdotal. It's an event that either happens or not, human thought or oppinion doesnt really factor
As for the value of anecdotal evidence, yes with enough data points conclusions can be drawn although even then you have to be carefull because anecdotal evidence is riddled with personal bias. In this specific case however, you are only furnishng a single data point, your own experience. Your hiring practices could be garbage, your starting wage could be too low, you could be furnishing a poor work environment, and / or you could not be doing enough to advertise the positions. There are are dozens of things that arent "kids are lazy, not like in my day" that could be causing your problems.
In the context of our conversation anecdotal evidence is in fact worthless because it's just two data points, yours were you've had problems with young employees and my own where I've had quite a bit of success with younger workers. In my case, sure a few are weeded out as completely unsuitable during the hiring process and even then some dont work out but that can be said of older hires too.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
There are plenty of user serviceable parts. I just got a brand new top end HVAC system and poking around the internals it's pretty interesting.
On the software side: They finally introduced RS485 to the home market. Rather than dealing with what color wire goes where they turned it into a bus. It's trivial to highjack the data there. You can even use the web interface's 'proxy server' and a Perl program to do all the data locally (rather than to the cloud).
On the hardware side the AC unit converts the 240V to 3 phase so they can fully modulate the heat pump. Inside it's your basic embedded system board laid out a bit different. Plenty of test points and easily solderable parts.
Now, the user should probably have an engineering degree or at least proper LOTO procedure. These aren't the old HVACs of your parents where you could train a 18 year old to service them. It showed when both HVAC technicians wired it wrong because they were used to the 'dumb' systems. I pulled out the install manuals and had pages of wiring diagram. Now that it's a more complex circuit it doesn't all fit onto one page. HVAC tends to lag behind other industries I'd say their wiring is on par with ~1995 cars.
No clue why they didn't just make the jump to CAN. We're going to be stuck with RS485 for the next 100 years now.
I can give you hundreds more, so label Universities as trolls and call each one irrelevant.
hundreds out of tens of millions? that's at least 0.01% of them! oh my, so many!
Tens of millions of Universities? Oh my indeed!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Go open your HVAC, there's probably a circuit diagram on the inside.
HVAC's still have this. I had a full damn HiFi system with not only the circuit, but also a printout showing how to identify the components and the pièce de résistance, a damn number to call to source the replacement parts.
If only I still had that instead of bloody google.
I can say with some authority that regardless of the results of any study, work ethic has declined while entitlement has soared.
It probably had a little more to do with the country changing from an agricultural emerging market to a manufacturing developing nation.
Tens of millions of Universities? Oh my indeed!
ahh, the troll, the last resort of the defeated. better luck next time.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Commendable, but rare. Sadly, many people who grow up today come out into reality (after living with helicopter parents for most of their life and "safe space" colleges for the rest) and think the world owes them something for their mere existence.
I'm not saying that this is the normal case (yet... I have that feeling that they get more the older I get), but I do get some applicants that really think the world revolves around them and that I should feel blessed for them to even show up for the interview.
As an example, I allowed my son to play street hockey on the road in front of our house. I suspect I just caused the whiners and helicopters to shit their panties.
I or my wife kept a discrete eye on them, but we let them do their thing, only planning to intervene if afight broke out - which never happened.
Much silly squabbling such as children can do. Usually about "the rules". Much yelling of "car!", whenever a car turned onto the street.
But the squabbles? Kids learning to work out problems and set precedents and play by the rules as set up. And if a rule was dumb, more squabbles to ditch it. They were learning to deal with each others as equals, not dealing with each other as children supervised by adults who would step in at any time to "correct" some imagined inequity.
The cars? Learning to stay alert, with people nowing their duty when a car came. The closest person to the net skated with it off the road since the goalies were too loaded up with equipment to quickly do that.
Learning to act as part of a team without adults constantly getting in teh way, and learning how to accomplish something without an adult praising them because they tied their shoes or something.
Worked great.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Tens of millions of Universities? Oh my indeed!
ahh, the troll, the last resort of the defeated. better luck next time.
Now lets drop the snark for a second, because I want to ask you a serious question.
Immediately after I gave you webpage citations, several of them, and then said "I can give you hundreds more", and the challenge to tell Universities that they are trolling the world with a problem, that you actually thought that I was talking about individual students, and not the Universities that are experiencing the problem that I was giving the links to?
And lest we forget, I answered you in the same vein as you replied, which to the trained eye, looks kinda snarky, but if you declare that trolling, then you were as well. P So since I've cleared that, is it your opinion that the problem does not exist, and that the Universities are making this up?
In some ways, this is like the remedial classes that are taught at Universities for Algebra, or other ares that placement tests show that a student is deficient in.
The big difference is that the deficiency is held by the parents of the students, who have not learned the final courtesy of parenting - letting your child become an adult. In my University, as the problem presented itself and would not go away, they eventually separated the parents from the students for special parental orientation. And it was much more traumatic for the parents by far. And only partially successful, as 18 years of overprotection doesn't go away just because someone tells you you are interfereing in your adult child's emotional growth.
Another part of the disservice we have done to them is the self esteem movement, a cornerstone of the millenial's education and socialization, has failed and failed badly.
https://www.psychologytoday.co...
http://www.albertmohler.com/20...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
side note - when the President of the Southern Baptist Theological seminary and the Huffpost agree on something, we might pay attention.
http://www.education.com/magaz...
http://articles.latimes.com/20...
Regardless, the millennials were badly let down, by their parents inability to parent, and by societies belief that if you constantly tell someone they are special and the best, that they will grow up to be special and the best. Neither idea actually worked very well. Self esteem, that cornerstone of the millenial's upbringing, as it turns out, is earned, not conferred by praising every tiny thing a person does. A young person should not have either high or low self esteem. It is something developed, not inculcated. They should be encouraged and told about what they might be, but not told they have achieved greatness for sharpening a pencil.
And another corrosive element often shared by sports people is that if a person puts their mind to it, they can be anything at all that they want. Nope, nope nope. I can never be a female supermodel, and although athletic, I will never set a record in a marathon. Just won't. Wrong body style. I can wish and try as hard as I can, but I will fail.
And yet, I have very high esteem. It's built on what I have done in life, and my many achievements. All of them earned, and earned well.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I've seen that all my life not just with millenials but with the narrow band often referred to as "trust fund kiddies" - did your failures resemble that group at all? Were they a bunch that did not actually need to work?
However I have been accused of being the sort of person you describe, and more, when I quit because my pay was eight weeks late (not the first delay in that place but the worst) due to the employer spending a vast amount on his daughter's 21st birthday party.
A rich, healthy person born in 1990 has far more in common with a rich, healthy person born in 1960 than a poor, sick person born in 1990.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Certainly there are helicopter parents out there who have ruined their millennial children. Of course, this has always been the case to some extent, particularly among the wealthy. I personally know a man in his late 40s who calls his parents when a light bulb in his house has burnt out and needs changed. He's not developmentally disabled or anything, he's just been that sheltered for his whole life. His parents are getting on in years, and some of us seriously worry how he'll even be able to feed himself after they get too old to take care of him.
My experience, teaching ~120 undergrads per year for the past few years, is that I've had perhaps one student per year whose mom tried to contact me to interfere somehow with his coursework. I've spoken with colleagues about it, and they find it happening at similar rates. I haven't looked at any studies about it, but it doesn't seem to be the biggest problem.
I think what's much worse is that freshmen are coming into college woefully underprepared. It seems like they spend too much time in high school doing standardized tests and not enough time actually learning how to write and do mathematics. I teach courses to sophomores that require solving simple equations for unknowns and working with ratios, and some of those kids are quite intimidated by it. IIRC, it must be something like middle school-level math? Maybe high school freshman? And some of them can barely construct an intelligible sentence.
Nevertheless, most of my students work hard and get the job done. Some number fail every year, but my score distributions come out looking pretty normal at the end of every semester, so that's something, at least.
So all of teh Universities are completely wrong? Can you give me the cites that this is so? I can give them to the data so they will know that they have wasted money on a problem that simply does not exist. This is shocking to me, but if you have the research, I can do well by sving a lot of money.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
No, as I've said, I haven't read any studies about it. I cannot tell you that "all of teh universities" are wrong. I can't tell if you got really drunk and lost the ability to reason and type, or are just attempting to patronize me by acting like a moron. All I can say is that in my experience with teaching, and in conversation with colleagues who also teach at a university, we perceive that the mathematics, writing, and study skills of many incoming students seem less than they used to be; and that helicopter parents and wrongly inflated self-esteem are problems that appear, but not nearly as often.
No, as I've said, I haven't read any studies about it.
Well, monchichi, I have. And I have participated in the activities to try to remedy "teh" situation, and I have provided "teh" links with other universities who have had "teh" exact same situation.
I cannot tell you that "all of teh universities" are wrong.
"Teh" is such an effective and clever argument invalidation mechanism, isn't it? I'll make certain to use teh with you since you fixate on it. And teh reason you cannot tell me that all of "teh" Universities are wrong is because it is pretty darn hard to. Teh Universities have experienced teh brunt of teh problem. This is because at one time, 18 year old adults acted like what society defined as adults - with a measure of independence. They do not at this time. The parental units are called in multiple times daily to make those decisions for them. This has led to great difficulties, manifested in an inability for teh young adults to make decisions as young adults should. Beyond eating an all ramen diet so there is enough money for the Natty Light, most actual adult stuff is handled by the parents.
I can't tell if you got really drunk and lost the ability to reason and type, or are just attempting to patronize me by acting like a moron.
Am I drunk? Not hardly. Let's spare the accusations, eh? I'll take the high road for the moment by not making any nasty accusations against you. For teh record, no I wasn't drunk, and my total alcohol consumption per annum is around teh equivalent of a six pack of beer.
Perhaps I am just inherently a moron, its obvious that I am an asshole. But that really is trying to change the argument. I asked for a refutation, you respond with you can't refute it, and that I am probably drunk.
Good work teech! I hope you don't teach logic or debate.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
He's too busy posting as a chicken shit AC to come and defend his bullshit.
Just another day in Paradise
We haven't been called on to do anything but buy shit and get fat
Well, I'm sure you're the Greatest at that.
Just another day in Paradise
Sorry, it's just that some of your other posts seems significantly more thoughtful. I made a bad assumption. Your poor spelling is a distraction, but it doesn't anger me, and I'm sorry that you felt that the effort would somehow improve your point. Anyhow, the purpose of my original comment was not to refute whatever studies you've read. It was merely to state that there are many problems in higher education, and while inflated self-esteem may be one of them, it is not, in my experience, the most significant.
+1 Bravo
And yes, I blame the parents.
Just another day in Paradise
See, this is where your parents screwed up. They let you get away with doing whatever the hell you wanted, and being disrespectful. Hopefully, you're an only child. Go find a safe space loser.
Just another day in Paradise
Which I'm sure is peanuts compared to the cost of developing the actual vehicle. And that's where I would roll the cost into because really, it's not like they are going to make their money by randomly creating service manuals for non-existent vehicles.
If it was up to me, I'd sell the service manuals at the cost of reproducing them. For a PDF that would be free. In 1992 you'd probably have to print it, so I could see it maybe costing a few tens of dollars.