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4Chan Hackers Claim To Have Remotely Wiped John Podesta's iPhone and iPad (gizmodo.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via Gizmodo: For the past several days, WikiLeaks has been publishing thousands of emails belonging to Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta -- and the leaks are starting to cause some serious damage. Gizmodo reports: "Many of the leaked emails contained contact info, cell phone numbers, and account data, none of which was redacted by Wikileaks before being posted. With this information accessible to anyone with the time and energy to read through it all, users on 4chan's /pol/ (politically incorrect) board were able to gain access to Podesta's Twitter account, tweeting a message in support of Trump. Imageboard posters also stumbled on an email containing Podesta's Apple ID -- and appear to have exploited it. 'iPad/iPhone info and data wiped out,' a post on Endchan claimed, show screenshots of what seems to be the hacker gaining access to Find My iPhone using Podesta's credentials. If Podesta's Apple ID was compromised, it stands to reason that his iCloud account was similarly vulnerable. And sure enough, Redditor's on r/The_Donald claim Podesta's iCloud data was downloaded. A hacker known as CyberZeist also appears to have uncovered the passwords to dozens of senators' email addresses, as well as social security numbers and credit card info for many Democrats including Vice President Joe Biden, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, and acting Chair of the DNC Donna Brazile. The information was posted to pastebin.

67 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. personally, I think infosec jackass said it best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    https://twitter.com/infosec_jackass/status/786357961794785280

  2. More evidence... by 14erCleaner · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently Podesta's password is "password". That's why "the Russians" have all his email, you know.

    --
    Have you read my blog lately?
    1. Re:More evidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ha ha. I just changed it. You're locked out now. Loser!

    2. Re:More evidence... by reboot246 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hillary's password is "pleasehackme".

    3. Re:More evidence... by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 2

      Bill uses two.

      pleasef**kme and slickwillie

    4. Re:More evidence... by Pax681 · · Score: 2

      The ((())) tag is used by alt-righters to signify somebody they're supposed to hate.

      erm.. the ((())) is used to infer an SJW type echo chamber... btw i am not an Alt-righter , I just know a few of them.

    5. Re:More evidence... by DirkDaring · · Score: 2

      She changed it. It's now 'withacloth?'

  3. How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by FireballX301 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm surprised John Podesta hasn't been given a security audit by the campaign. Audit as in, replaced phone/email/computers with securely vetted stuff + had a security contractor audit and harden his accounts with better passwords/2factor/cleaning out cross referenced credentials.

    1. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by DaHat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doubly so when iCloud password he was using was sent to him via email by one of his staffers... an email that was part of the Wikileaks dump: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-...

      Audit or not, if you have reason to believe someone has access to your stuff, best to change everything you can that might be referenced in that stuff (from a more secure device).

    2. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by peragrin · · Score: 2

      Given that the CIA director had an AOL account, and the average politicians is 60 years old and can barely use email let alone understand it. I just assume all politicians are idiots when it comes to tech in all forms.

      I am Trying to tech a 63 year old now that he doesn't need to to print the PDF he received in his email, just so he can scan it to the file server. But he isn't happy without touching paper. And he earns twice what I do. Sure he knows a lot and has tons of practical experience. But damn getting him used to on a computer is a pain in the arse.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm surprised John Podesta hasn't been given a security audit by the campaign. Audit as in, replaced phone/email/computers with securely vetted stuff + had a security contractor audit and harden his accounts with better passwords/2factor/cleaning out cross referenced credentials.

      These are people who can't be bothered with security when they're the Secretary of State for the USA - how much less do you think they'd care about the data for a political campaign?

    4. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by Stephenmg · · Score: 2

      I just assume all politicians are idiots.

      You didn't need any more than that.

    5. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by TimMD909 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Standards and practices, especially with email, were never really the Clinton way of doing things. This fans the flames on the email fiasco.

    6. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      I'm in my mid 60's. And I know one hell of a lot more infosec than these clowns. Really, it's not hard. What is even easier is to hire some young'in or even a well known security firm and have them create a security structure for everyone. You can spend ten million dollars on a friggin commercial, you can spend a couple of million on security.

      Maybe even get a Blackberry. We didn't have these problems when BB's were all the rage, did we?

      It's all Apple's fault.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by Megane · · Score: 2

      Wow. That was only slightly better than the old joke password of "hunter2".

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    8. Re:How long has Podesta's email been compromised? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Deforestation happens mostly to graze cattle or grow other crops. Paper is mostly made from wood grown with sustainable forestry practices.

      Think of it this way: trees consume carbon dioxide. Anything that encourages the growth of trees on 'managed land' (i.e. forestry for pulpwood) is good for the environment. Or at least neutral.

  4. Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The one-sided nature of the leaks suggests that either Wikieaks has an agenda, or it is the willing accomplice of someone who has an agenda.

    In any case, the failure to redact phone numbers and other personal information suggests that Wikileaks cannot really be regarded as a reasonable way to leak data.

    Finally, I suspect that the one-sided nature of the leaks is upsetting many people who would otherwise support Wikileaks.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That does not excuse the bullshit that is in the Wikileaks emails. Many of us on the left where not planning on to vote for that warmonger in the first place but at leaks at the convention quite literally nuked any chance of support by many of us progressives. They made their bed, they can lay in it.

    2. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by DaHat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No doubt Trump supporters are chuckling at your realization of this... the same thing Republicans have known for ages about most of the media.

      Or are we to believe it was pure coincidence that an 11 year old Trump tape came out just 48 hours before the debate, and that just days later, several publications had interviews with some of the victims?

      It will be interesting to see/hear what other bombshells both sides have been sitting on for all of this time.

    3. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The New York Times will post anything that makes a Republican look bad. Wikileaks handles the stuff NYT doesn't publish about Democrats.

    4. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The one-sided nature of the leaks suggests

      That one candidate is doing enough leaking from his own mouth for it not to matter?

    5. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe this will encourage the media to start doing journalism again and we won't need WikiLeaks anymore.

    6. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Doesn't matter who it is, failure to redact passwords, phone numbers, etc, is just wrong. I've defended them against false accusations of "sloppy redacting" in the past, now that they're not even trying, they have lost my support.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by anarkhos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or maybe it's one-sided because one of the candidates is a crook

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
    8. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Zak3056 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The one-sided nature of the leaks suggests that either Wikieaks has an agenda, or it is the willing accomplice of someone who has an agenda.

      Welcome to the real world. Wikileaks has ALWAYS had an agenda, but that was fine for some people when Assange was targeting those they disagreed with. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, it's suddenly a problem.

      In any case, the failure to redact phone numbers and other personal information suggests that Wikileaks cannot really be regarded as a reasonable way to leak data.

      You're kidding, right? If you're leaking data, you should redact it before you give it to someone else to do with whatever they please, because who is to say that the non-redacted data won't accidentally leak, much less purposefully?

      Finally, I suspect that the one-sided nature of the leaks is upsetting many people who would otherwise support Wikileaks.

      See point one above. There are plenty on the right these days cheering them on, because many of those people are hypocrites, too.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    9. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      If only Wikileaks had something on Trump so we could find out what he really thinks about women.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    10. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We know it was held. The tape was from an NBC show. How did NBC get scooped if it was from their own show?

      Answer: they held the tape back and were planning on releasing it closer to the election. When the Wikileaks leak happened, "someone" leaked the tape to the Washington Post, which published immediately.

      So, yes, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the "p***y" tape was released to cover up the Wikileaks leaks.

      I still find it weird how a guy saying "pussy" in private is worse than a literal rapist who raped multiple women, but I'm not a Democrat, so what do I know about faux outrage.

    11. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even if Wikileaks had a bias, what's wrong with leaking the info of careerist establishment politicians?

      Whatever Hillary is in relation to Trump, in absolute terms she's still a bought and paid for member of the establishment.

    12. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you read the e-mails as proof it was rigged, then you read what you wanted to read and would have believed anyway. Fivethirtyeight demonstrated that the convention was not rigged.

      You already knew that the DNC liked team-player, loyal soldier Hillary rather than independent, more-interested-in-protesting-than-governing Sanders. The e-mails conclusively proved only that. They did not show that sanders was cheated.

    13. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by nrjyzerbuny · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The word 'pussy' isn't the problem. The problem is the word 'grab'.

    14. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by whoever57 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you read the e-mails as proof it was rigged, then you read what you wanted to read and would have believed anyway

      Perhaps not the convention. In California, the night before the primary election, there was an announcement on the news that Clinton had won. Guess what, turnout of Democratic electors was lower than expected. And the claim that Clinton had already won: false. Was that false claim an accident? I don't think so.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    15. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps if Trump hadn't publicly bragged about doing what he is now accused of, his campaign wouldn't be crashing and burning.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    16. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      No he just bragged about walking in models in various states of undress, grabbing women's genitals, and expressing his sexual attraction for his own daughter. He's a real genius alright.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    17. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Wikileaks has ALWAYS had an agenda

      Don't they just leak anything and everything they can get their hands on? And do not themselves get the leaks, just publish them? I don't think they are hacking Hillary campaign leaders themselves, or turning down juicy leaks from Trump.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    18. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Publicly bragged while being accidentally recorded on a hot microphone that he wasn't aware of, while a borderline sleazy Access Hollywood guy egged him on with the "wink wink, elbow elbow" giggity routine off camera, supposedly in a trailer? I'm no rabid Trump supporter, but it's not like he was saying this stuff while at a campaign stop in Iowa.

    19. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why would anyone want to vote for someone simultaneously as corrupt and stupid/incompetent as clinton?

      She's of the same cloth as bush 1/2 and Obama.

      The last thing this country needs is another bush/Clinton dynastastic royalist idiot in office. Any office.

    20. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by swb · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but after November he's just another tax-dodging, whoring member of the tasteless new money class.

      Clinton will be President, which makes exposing her dirty laundry more important.

    21. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by misexistentialist · · Score: 2

      aka what your dad did to your mom, only a believer in Hillary's frigid lesbian death cult would want government to stop daddy

    22. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      When was grabbing women's genitals perfectly alright? And why are you an apologist for sexual assault? Have you no morals? Are you a sociopath?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    23. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Bragging about sexual assault that there is no firm evidence he committed. He was being a showoff. He is/was enough of a celebrity that women would actually throw themselves at him, so he didn't have to 'take' anything.

      Which is beside the point. The hard evidence of sexual assault and a spouse who enabled it and attacked the victims to help her 'man' is with the Clinton couple. What a couple they have been.

    24. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by xQx · · Score: 3, Funny

      Trump has never said anything so stupid [...]

      Err... have you been watching the same campaign as the rest of us have?

    25. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When the woman consents, maybe?

      Trump was talking about how he was famous enough that women would let him "grab them by the pussy" (as he put it), not that he runs up and grabs random women. He was bragging about how attractive women found him and what they'd let him do.

      I find it amazing how "outraged" people pretend to be about Trump saying the word "pussy" but how they flat-out don't care about a serial-rapist ex-president whose wife, as a defense attorney, helped get a rapist off by attacking the character of his victim.

      But go ahead, go continue to pretend to be outraged about Trump saying "pussy" while refusing to acknowledge the victims of the Clintons.

    26. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by guruevi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, you have Russian Trump on one end and Obama/Clinton picking a fight so they can blame the Russians. They're already talking about executing retaliatory cyber attacks (at least they're giving Russia advance warning). This might not evolve into a WW3 but with ISIS almost dead, the American leadership needs a new enemy.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    27. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Explain what forms of sexual contact in the stated context of "they let you do it" are clearly -not- assault, then.

    28. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      sexual assault != they let you do it

    29. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 3, Funny

      In California, the night before the primary election, there was an announcement on the news that Clinton had won. Guess what, turnout of Democratic electors was lower than expected. And the claim that Clinton had already won: false. Was that false claim an accident? I don't think so.

      Maybe that was the Russians too. Man those guys are everywhere.

    30. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The one-sided nature of the leaks suggests that either Wikieaks has an agenda, or it is the willing accomplice of someone who has an agenda.

      The murder of Seth Rich, along with the rumor that he was Wikileak's source for the DNC leaks, puts Assange in a tough position. Whether Seth WAS his source or not, public perception that Wikileaks sources may be killed and their leaked information thus suppressed could make his sources dry up.

      To counter this he has to create the perception that, if you try to plug the leak by plugging the source, it will result in the leaks being more extreme and damaging, rather than less.

      One way to do that is to publish more than would normally be published, and redact it less.

      Perhaps that is what is going on: As with rule 804, where hearsay from a deceased person becomes admissible, insuring that leaks from (or perceived to be from) a murder victim are extreme might help make murder of leakers less likely.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    31. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

      Perhaps if Trump hadn't publicly bragged about doing ...

      The main thing I got out of it was: He said
        - he'd made a pass at a married woman,
        - she'd turned him down,
        - and he took "no" for an answer.

      What a pity the Clintons don't seem to do that. ... what he is now accused of,

      It's the last four weeks of the campaign. There is no longer time for the truth of accusations to come out before election day. Now is the time when, historically, dishonest politicians and/or their supporters have a track record of making up believable lies and broadcasting them.

      So now is the time that I don't believe smear stories - that don't have solid, PRE-EXISTING, evidence to support them - about candidates in a tough race.

      Maybe he did something bad, maybe not. But the spate of accusations certainly seem to be nicely tuned to a narrative based on the recording. The many accusations allegedly took place years ago. If true, they could have been published months ago. Why are they only coming out now, just after the classic cut-in time for fake-story smears? The timing certainly makes them LOOK like they are lies, constructed and carefully tuned for use in the last weeks of the campaign.

      his campaign wouldn't be crashing and burning.

      The last polls I saw (from just after the recent debate, and substantially after the release of the recording, but before the series of accusations) had him pulling ahead by a substantial margin - like by almost the total of the "undecideds".

      My impression is that the only crashing and burning going on is on the part of the Republican politicians who took this opportunity to break their agreements and oppose Trump - only to find he was the one with the bigger army of supporters.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    32. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Doesn't matter who it is, failure to redact passwords, phone numbers, etc, is just wrong.

      As my wife said:

      "THEY read all of OUR communications. Why shouldn't WE read all of THEIRS?"

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    33. Re: Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really? I thought they were supporting Bill "Slick Willy" Clinton and the wife, Hillary Clinton, who assassinated the character of the women Bill raped. You know, the "bimbo explosion" and all that. But nobody believes the allegations when they're made against a Democrat outside of an election year, but we do believe an 11th hour media campaign near an election.

      Because if they had crimes to report, why did they wait so many years to talk about this?

    34. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They used to edit the leaks before publishing them, but various governments have been applying pressure on Assange and on their finances and on any journalist that works with them, so now due to lack of resources they just dump everything.

      In other words, attempts to shut down Wikileaks have only made the leaks that much worse.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    35. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by jfern · · Score: 2

      Yes, they've even leaked negative things about Russia. Funny that they'd do that if they are all Putin operatives.

    36. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      That's my point. Wikileaks only has what they're given, and people only complain about "one-sided leaks" when it's their side. The bias comes from the democrat fanboy, not from Wikileaks.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    37. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fact that you consider Sanders an extremist is very sad.

    38. Re:Has Wikileaks jumped the shark? by Cederic · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's the perception that she's corrupt, malicious, dangerous, untrustable and/or downright evil.

      The FBI compromising their own integrity to protect her hasn't helped, either with public perception of her or in demonstrating that she hasn't broken the law.

      She is a very experienced politician, a very smart and hard-working person, and an extremely honest (as far as politicians go) individual

      Now that's just naive.

  5. The Obvious Conclusion: by Hartree · · Score: 4, Funny

    Those b-tard trolls on 4chan have always been tools of Putin and the Russian government, and they are trying to tilt the election!

    Let's investigate the history of finance links between Moot and the Russians. Has he ever attended FSB (He's not old enough for KGB) training? ;) (for the blindly humor impaired)

    1. Re:The Obvious Conclusion: by DaHat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So back when a 4chan user hacked Sarah Palin's personal email... the hacker was doing the bidding of the Russians?

      No doubt the Russian's were angry at the news that she could see them from her house!*

      *Yes I know it's an SNL line, still useful at rare times like this.

  6. change them all so the hackers can't get ya by swschrad · · Score: 2

    I use "asswordP" myself. they'll never guess ;)

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  7. little people may dispense with encryption now by bentnail · · Score: 2

    It's funny all the politicians railing against encryption so they can foil the next terrorist plot.
    (or spy on their not-so-loyal significant other(s)).
    But when THEY get hacked they'll need some strong encryption to prevent it for themselves.
    Because they are big people-- much smarter than us-- that make the world go round.//end of sarcasm

    Given the level of discourse it seems inconceivable that any party (other than libertarians) have given 1/2 a thought to what
    nefarious legislation the three letter agencies are writing for our own safety after the election.

  8. Fake news to distract from stuff that matters by zedaroca · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is irrelevant. Hacked people supposedly got hacked again...
    For actual news about the leaks you should go:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks
    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/575e37/new_wikileaks_podesta_emails_part_five_673_more/
    https://twitter.com/wikileaks

    Sample:

    Best Podesta leak pair: 1) HRC stating in 2014 that the Saud+Qatar govts fund ISIL and 2) Qatar giving Bill Clinton $1m for 5 minute meeting

    ABC Exec Ben Sherwood Pledges "Any and All ABC Platforms" to Help Hillary.

    CNN's Donna Brazile, now head of DNC, tipped off Clinton campaign about debate question

    Algeria Donated to the Clinton Campaign in order to get off the Terror Watchlist, according to Joe Scarborough

  9. Waiting time. by bjwest · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Who the hell goes twelve hours after learning one of your accounts has been hacked without changing all your passwords? This guy deserved what he got.

    --

    --- Keep the choice with the user..
  10. Fake news, already debunked by zedaroca · · Score: 2

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/786653209825861633

    No they didn't. We checked that the credentials had already been changed.

  11. Shhh. by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 4, Funny

    My password is ********. Seriously 8 *s, No one will ever guess/

    1. Re:Shhh. by jittles · · Score: 2

      My password is ********. Seriously 8 *s, No one will ever guess/

      That looks like hunter2 on my screen. How did you know my password!?!?

  12. Re:And remember kids by sittingnut · · Score: 2

    Make sure your password is unbreakable, like 12345

    obligatory spaceballs clip.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  13. Re:Just stop it by NotAPK · · Score: 2

    Why?

    Genuinely curious.

    Will their task somehow become easier if they "get the job" and win office? If they can't even handle *running* for office what makes you think they can handle the actual job?

  14. As soon as THEY leave US alone by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    LEAVE THE DNC ALONE!

    I'll be glad to leave them alone - as soon as they leave US alone.

    Given their past behavior, I doubt they'll EVER do that.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way