Microsoft Stops Selling Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 To Computer Makers (venturebeat.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report on VentureBeat: Out with the old, and in with the new. Microsoft yesterday stopped providing Windows 7 Professional and Windows 8.1 licenses to original equipment manufacturers (OEMs), including its PC partners and systems builders. This means that, as of today, the only way you can buy a computer running Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 is if you can still find one in stock. Two years ago, Microsoft stopped selling Windows 7 Home Basic, Windows 7 Home Premium, and Windows 7 Ultimate licenses to OEMs. Now Windows 7 Professional and Windows 8.1 are also out of the picture, leaving Windows 10 as the only remaining option, assuming you want a PC with a Microsoft operating system. This is Microsoft's way of slowly phasing out old operating systems.

Comments

Pushback

[DogDude]

I think they're going to get tremendous pushback from customers, and they'll continue selling Windows 7 for a while longer, still. I can't imagine a lot of businesses using Windows 10. That interface is pretty silly.

Re:Pushback

[arth1]

You can use it 99%+ like you use Windows 7.

Like without telemetry and automated updates?

Re:Pushback

[thegarbz]

I can't imagine a lot of businesses using Windows 10. That interface is pretty silly.

If by pretty silly you mean square edges and otherwise for common use cases identical to previous versions of windows then yes I would agree with you, though I'm not sure silly is the right word.

For those of us who use our computers rather than play with the OS, there's little to no practical difference in the interface between Windows 7 and 10 with the exception of that slide out side bar, and the colour shading behind windows. The ribbon in explorer is a natural extension of the interface most Windows users are already used to in their applications and the tiles can be completely ignored making Windows 10's menu look like a dark version of Windows 7's with more blank space.

In terms of business users I can't imagine businesses giving a crap. I mean these are businesses who happily moved from Windows XP to 7 and by comparison this move is far less jarring.

Re:Pushback

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

As someone with small businesses dealing with sensitive commercial and personal data, not only do we give a crap, so do our lawyers. YMMV, but the telemetry and automatic updates are not a non-issue for those too small to be using the enterprise-level tools.

Re:Pushback

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

This happens every new generation of OS - some noob comes by to tell us that people won't upgrade and they are always wrong.

Right. I mean, everyone jumped from XP to Vista, except for almost everyone. And Windows 7 eventually lost so much market share to Windows 8/8.1 that it was only a few times bigger when Windows 10 came out.

Re: Pushback

[smooth wombat]

That was 2% against Win7. And growing.

Tell me, what professional level photo editing software runs natively on Linux? Photoshop? Capture One? DxO Optics?

Adobe itself has said they don't make Photoshop for Linux because the market isn't there. People who run Linux don't, and won't, pay for software. Therefore, they don't make a native Linux version. The same can easily be said of any software company.

Further, which version of Linux? There are what, 20 different flavors, potentially running several different kernels on top of numerous configurations? How is a software company supposed to make software to run under those conditions? Simply saying, "Compile your own" doesn't cut it when your job is to produce photos people want to buy.

I'm only using that one example because as a W7 user I will eventually have to move on from Windows, most likely to Apple, since they are the sole remaining company for which such software is available. This will do nothing to move the Linux needle off the staggering 2% threshold it is clinging to.

Re:Pushback

[Darinbob]

Nobody likes the ribbons. Microsoft is oblivious to customer concerns because their goals are to add features and maybe fix them later. Customer desires to not fit into their business plans, they treat Windows users like an annoyance (the real customers are the OEMs). No customers ever asked for a touch screen interface, no customers ever asked that the desktop be deprecated in Windows 8, no customers ever asked for a broken implementation of a phone applet store, no customers ever asked for Microsoft to reboot their computers to apply updates when they were in the middle of a game or skype call.

Windows 8.1 was mostly an apology, Windows VP was fired, we were allowed to boot to desktop again, etc. Then Windows 10 reversed course and doubled down; the store centric model was still front and center, the start menu was just the metro start page but not full screen, the update policy was just insane, etc.

The whole attitude from Microsoft is a dramatic shift from how they behaved during XP/7 time frames. Maybe it's the new CEO, maybe they're feeling more and more irrelevant and are panicking because desktops are not the big thing they once were, but something has changed in Redmond behavior.

Re:Pushback

[WaffleMonster]

It's amazing that a change to an interface somehow makes customer data flow out somewhere. I'm going to assume you can't follow a conversation and just froth at the mouth at the opportunity to mention telemetry every chance you get.

Amazing isn't the word I would chose to describe it. Quite mundane and easy to understand is more appropriate.

Step 1.

Develop single search UI that blends everything and does not provide any obvious indication or option to limit searches and obviously resulting data leakages. The point of this is maximizing intentional leakage of data by intentional malicious UX design.

Step 2.

Lawyer working a case types "Rob's rap sheet" into the search box on their computer intending to bring up file for case they are working. This data is sent to a public search engine with no expectation of privacy.

Doctor types "Gloria's Gonorrhea" into the search box on their computer intending to bring up file for patient they are working. This data is also sent to a search engine.

Windows 10 is intentionally ENGINEERED to leak information and invade privacy and confidentiality of information at every opportunity.

Also worth remembering Windows 10 is distributed with a fully functional RAT (Remote Access Trojan) installed and ENABLED by DEFAULT granting Microsoft the ability to exfiltrate data without either your explicit consent or knowledge.

https://web.archive.org/web/20...

https://web.archive.org/web/20...

Re: Pushback

[drinkypoo]

Adobe itself has said they don't make Photoshop for Linux because the market isn't there. People who run Linux don't, and won't, pay for software. Therefore, they don't make a native Linux version. The same can easily be said of any software company.

Adobe will flip on this just as soon as someone wants a massive crapload of seats for Photoshop for Linux and is willing to pay for them. The same can easily be said of any software company.

Further, which version of Linux? There are what, 20 different flavors, potentially running several different kernels on top of numerous configurations? How is a software company supposed to make software to run under those conditions? Simply saying, "Compile your own" doesn't cut it when your job is to produce photos people want to buy.

It's pretty obvious, I should think. You support Ubuntu and Redhat. That will get you the vast majority of the market because that is the vast majority of the market, plus if it will run on both of those it will probably be relatively easy to get it to run more or less everywhere else as well.

I'm only using that one example because as a W7 user I will eventually have to move on from Windows, most likely to Apple, since they are the sole remaining company for which such software is available. This will do nothing to move the Linux needle off the staggering 2% threshold it is clinging to.

But what percentage of users are expecting the same software library that you are? I think the real sticking point for mass adoption continues to be games, since there are perfectly good apps available to do most of the things you do on other operating systems.

Incidentally, if you really want to know how to manage photos on Linux, I propose that the place to start is darktable. But as you well know, there is nothing which does everything Photoshop does.

Re:Pushback

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Are there lawyers really telling their clients that using Windows 10 may open them to liability simply because of Win 10 telemetry?

There isn't really any question about whether it could open us to liability in principle. Have you ever seen any provision in your country's data protection/privacy laws, or any commercial confidentiality or non-disclosure agreement, or any industry regulations like PCI DSS, or any statutory regulations like those protecting personal health data, that contains any sort of exemption or exclusion for data provided to a third party as a result of software running on local equipment transferring data to remote services for processing? I haven't, and neither has any lawyer I've talked to about this.

The more practical questions are about the risk of a real world breach, the likely consequences if anything did happen, and whether adopting Windows 10 under the current circumstances could be considered negligent. No-one seriously thinks Microsoft is going to deliberately search through telemetry data they acquired after something crashed and exploit any personal data they incidentally collected. The concerns expressed were more around potential future directions with functionality like Cortana, where data very much is deliberately transferred to Microsoft for searching and analysis purposes, and with the fact that the way automatic updates work in Windows 10 potentially leads to a choice between leaving a system unpatched against known security issues or introducing additional functionality that would transfer data out of our organisation, as well as being able to reset existing privacy-related configuration to less secure settings or remove them at any time. With the current direction Microsoft have been taking, little transparency from them about what is really collected or how it is used, and few if any actionable guarantees under their privacy policies or EULAs regarding their future conduct in these areas to provide reassurance, our conclusion was that there are legitimate concerns here.

IMHO, if there was a compelling legal reason that Win10 telemetry actually exposed business users to serious liability, MS wouldn't have put that feature in.

Right. so let's consider the editions of Windows 10 that will typically be used by larger organisations. How much control over software updates do they have? Lots. How much mandatory telemetry do they include? None. Do they use Cortana and remote services for routine searching? No.

I'm not saying (and neither did anyone else in any conversation I've been in) that there is some sky-is-falling threat here or that Microsoft is likely to be actively malicious in exploiting data it gains access to because of Windows 10. But if you handle sensitive data, there is a level of risk with any software features that can transfer data to another system outside your control, and there is a level of risk with any software features that involve automatic updates, and depending on how serious the consequences of a breach could be, some organisations won't be happy with the potential liability that results.

Re:Pushback

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Looks like it really is true that 119.24% of statistics are made up on the spot...

Re:Pushback

[Ol Olsoc]

It's amazing that a change to an interface somehow makes customer data flow out somewhere. I'm going to assume you can't follow a conversation and just froth at the mouth at the opportunity to mention telemetry every chance you get.

Go do a little research. The put Wireshark on a Windows 10 computer, and sit back and enjoy the show. Then enable all of the security features.

Then spend some more time with wireshark and lecture us on telemetry.

Because you are either ignorant, or lying. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and we'll just say you don't know what you are talking about.

The Linux world stops distros without systemd

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 or SystemD, or a $2000 macbook pro with crippled ports. These are your choices in 2016.

Re:New world, new business model. Out with the old

[Anonymous Coward]

An admirable goal, but it does not take into account all those computers shipped with Windows 9. They will still have to support those, smart guy.

Re:More like...

[gmack]

Doubtful, The parent company of the place I work demands all PCs worldwide to be Windows 7 only and they aren't the only corporation that has this policy. We still have software that doesn't run on windows 8/10 so this news is a shafting for us. More likely MS is embarrassed by the consumer dislike of windows 10. MS is famous for putting internal politics ahead of business logic.

Saw it coming; surprised with outcome

[poofmeisterp]

A company I work for has been using Linux in the server environment for, well, before I worked here (+15 years?)... It's always been a shouting match game in conversations about switching desktops from one to the other. We've held on to Windows for compatibility and, more importantly here, familiarity reasons. None of the company employees (sans IT) know what a Linux distro OS looks like, let alone how to use it. I was actually shocked when we had a short meeting about this today - we're forced to in the next two years "upgrade" to Windows 10, or start the process of documenting usage procedures, converting in-house software to Linux-compatible (no WINE), making procedures of all employees' unique or shared daily work make sense in an environment they are not familiar with, accounting for third-party software that is Windows-only, and ironing out the bugs of printing (we have some pretty custom stuff, albeit simple). The meeting lasted less than half an hour and the decision was made to migrate. The third party software and unique printing, uh, debacles will be worked out by virtualizing the Windows OS completely, using snapshots at different points during the day and having the central FS shares be the same as they were. Company policy is to NOT use Windows for any purpose involving Internet activity; the software we use that is Windows-only is internal to us; only uses the 'net to upgrade between versions. We already had LibreOffice in place and people are familiar with it and using it every day. There will be a dedicated, non-internet gateway machine in each department for things that involve HAVING to use MS Office for some reason. Sharing sales presentations will be a snap - from a virtualized instance of Windows 7 until it's necessary for "on-board" or other reasons to use Windows 10 (showing another company that we use the same, etc etc etc). I can't believe the meeting was as short as it was. We've been preparing but just NOT doing it. That has been irritating me for a while now. Better to slowly transition than quickly. But wait, it will be a slow transition because we have a couple of years left! I don't "do that" when it comes to bashing MS just to do it, but this gives me a chance to NOT bash, but thank them in an offhanded way for nicely making the decision for us. You want to force us to be in your control without options, well, now you lose control. Before it was tolerated.

Re:Correction

[harvey the nerd]

Yep, time to phase out Microsoft....

Re:More like...

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

More like the market stopped buying it...

If that were really true, why were all the serious business PC suppliers still offering Windows 7 Pro preinstalled right up until yesterday, in many cases as the default option when you ordered online ahead of Windows 10? Why did several of them have detailed explanations ready today for how to use downgrade rights to get back to the Windows 7 you actually wanted instead of the Windows 10 that Microsoft now forces them to supply? And why is Windows 7 still by far the largest OS in the marketplace well over a year after 10 was out, despite Microsoft literally giving the latter away and aggressively promoting it to the extent that many people wound up switching to it and then vocally complaining that they hadn't wanted to?

at least to the point where it isn't worth supporting it.

Now we're getting somewhere. Older Windows operating systems do not fit with Microsoft's vision of a service-based, always-online future. Since Nadella is basically betting his business on making that happen (and, to be fair, so far what they're making in other areas seems to outweigh what they're losing in OS revenue) this seems unlikely to change unless and until there is a change in senior management.

I still find it an odd strategy. They're basically playing to the non-geek home users ("Free upgrades! New shinies!") and the enterprise market (Win 10 Enterprise is practically a different OS to the other editions) at the expense of the whole small business, power user and geek level in between. I can see them possibly making a lot of money doing that in the short to medium term. But in the longer term, that middle group is the one that often sets the direction of the industry, and sooner or later a competitor or two will surely exploit that.

Re:More crap

[CanadianMacFan]

Why are they going to change when your company bought their software and made changes on your side to accommodate them? If you want them the change then a whole lot of people are going to have to stop buying their software.

Re:Correction

[the_Bionic_lemming]

No no, they are phasing out customers...

Cause win 10 can go f itself.

Re:More like...

[houstonbofh]

We still have software that doesn't run on windows 8/10

Maybe you ought to be working on a fix instead of /.-ing?

Like porting to Linux? :)

Re:Remember the old MS slogan?

[Bing Tsher E]

Use an Offline Update Downloader to create an ISO. Run the ISO's installer to update Windows 7. Do this as frequently as you feel is necessary. Turn Windows Update completely off in the Windows 7 Control Panel.

The nice thing is, you archive your updates this way. I ran the Offline Update Downloader the day they turned off Windows XP updates and made a final update set for XP. Any time I see the need to build an XP system, pull out the ISO and run it on the new XP install.