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Why Tesla's New Solar Roof Tiles and Home Battery Are Such a Big Deal (techcrunch.com)
On October 28th, Tesla founder and CEO Elon Musk unveiled the residential "solar roof," consisting of glass roof tiles with integrated solar panels. Not only are they more durable than traditional roof panels, but they offer efficiency that is 98 percent as good as traditional, photovoltaic panels. The company also announced the Powerwall 2, a home battery that can store 14 kWh of energy, with a 5 kW continuous power draw, and 7 kW peak. It's designed to store the energy from the solar roof during day to power your home at night. Darrell Etherington via TechCrunch explains why these solar roof tiles are such a big deal: It's easy to dismiss the aesthetic import of how Tesla's tiles look, but it's actually important, and a real consideration for homeowners looking to build new homes or revamp their existing ones. The appearance of the tiles, which come in four distinct flavors (Textured Glass, Slate Glass, Tuscan Glass and Smooth Glass) is going to be a core consideration for prospective buyers, especially those at the top end of the addressable market with the disposable income available to do everything they can to ensure their home looks as good as it possibly can. As with other kinds of technologies that are looking to make the leap from outlier oddity to mainstream mainstay, solar has a hurdle to leap in terms of customer perception. Existing solar designs, and even so-called attempts to make them more consistent with traditional offerings like the above-mentioned Dow Chemical project, leave a lot to be desired in terms of creating something that can be broadly described as good-looking. Tesla has been referred to as the Apple of the automotive world by more than a few analysts and members of the media, and if there's one thing Apple does well, it's capitalize on the so-called -- halo effect. This is the phenomenon whereby customers of one of its lines of business are likely to become customers of some of the others; iPhone buyers tend to often go on to own a Mac, for instance. For Tesla, this represents an opportunity to jump-start its home solar business (which it'll take on in earnest provided its planned acquisition of SolarCity goes through) through the knock-on effects of its brisk Tesla EV sales, including the tremendous pre-order interest for the Model 3. Tesla's solar tiles claim to be able to power a standard home, and provide spare power via the new Powerwall 2 battery in case of inclement weather or other outages. Musk says that the overall cost will still be less than installing a regular old roof and paying the electric company for power from conventional sources. But Musk's claims about the new benefits of the new solutions don't end there. Tesla's tiles will actually be more resilient than traditional roofing materials, including terra-cotta, clay and slate tiles. Solar roofing, Powerwall and Tesla cars taken together represent a new kind of ecosystem in consumer tech, one that carries a promise of self-sufficiency in addition to ecological benefits. Tesla has already tipped its hand with respect to how it intends to make vehicle ownership a revenue generator for its drivers, rather than a cost center.
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Ã(TM), Ã(TM), Ã(TM)
What's up with that? Is Musk creating a new line of solar cash machines? Funny acronym.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
In a way that is largely irrelevant (impact of a heavy dense object), and entirely ignores the most common roofing material - asphalt shingles.
I saw the announcement, and sure, the roofing tiles LOOKED nice, but there was absolutely no mention of their efficiency, or how they would connect to each other. Elon however did go out of his way to demonstrate that there was some kind of "micro-louvre" layer that hides the solar cell from view unless you're looking at it straight on. The people in the crowd clapped, and I just shook my head, because that would actually REDUCE the amount of sunlight it can be exposed to.
Another demonstration was where they dropped a 10lb weight on each of the classic roofing tiles and then a solar tile. While the solar tile didn't shatter into shards like the other tiles did, I bet the underlying pv cell was no longer operational after that. Then you would have to either manually bypass it in the circuit, or replace it. Either way, if you're climbing up on the roof to do that, you might just as well replace it.
My last concern is (as always) how would this system perform in a northern area. I live in Minnesota, where 1/3rd of the year is dark, and roofs are covered with feet of snow. We don't see a whole lot of Tesla automobiles here either. How does the new Powerwall 2 in your garage hold up to -20f degree winters?
That we could walk on these panels. I have a low pitch roof, and have to get debris off of it fairly often. Not that it is a problem for that many homeowners Anyhow, good on Tesla. In hyper conservative (the real definition of conservative) housing industry, it takes a long time to get different looking things accepted. I personally find a roof full of regular photovoltaic panels as aesthetically pleasing as a asphalt shingle roof, but if people like that look, then it's a selling point.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It's also easy to overlook the aesthetic impact of proper character encodings!
The days of making solar grid connected and paying a few token cents or offering a credit did not slow solar.
The online astroturfing about payback, weather, sun needed, costs and many other state issues did not slow solar.
Make solar have a small output and not legal to grid connect unless its from a few really, really expensive tested brands to "protect" the grid?
An expensive hobby that will never alter grid profits.
Ensure every solar buy is registered and grid connected in the state.
Create a huge must pay grid connection fee for any type of powered residence in that state?
If you don't pay, its not a habitual residence anymore and fines can be collected.
Got to keep that grid cash flowing.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
>> it intends to make vehicle ownership a revenue generator for its drivers, rather than a cost center
Why wallow in the ditch with money - I'm sure the power will so abundant that we'll all find it too cheap to meter.
>> For Tesla, this represents an opportunity to jump-start its home solar business
Seriously, I know you need it to keep the Fed money flowing, but please dump the home solar BS and just concentrate on the one thing you do do well: build electric cars. Otherwise Telsa could easily become the next DeLorean.
apperently
A few things.
First, 5kw is a quarter the normal service normally provided. We have a 20 kw drop; that's normal. It's not about what you use normally, either, it's about the toaster, the vacuum, the frig, the freezer, the AC, etc. all kicking on at once. It happens -- don't think it doesn't. That's why there's a 100 amp main system breaker in your typical breaker box. 100 amps at 240 volts. 5kw is about 25 amps at 240 (yes, you almost certainly have a 240 system... there are two 120v legs, and some stuff in the house is on one, and some stuff is on the other. A few things -- dryers, electric stoves, AC systems, things like that -- are on both legs and actually use 240.)
Second, that battery... that's an expensive component, and one with a decidedly limited lifetime. There's going to be an ongoing maintainance cost there, and you should factor it in if you aren't just going to be compulsively home-swapping. Same with current EV designs, for that matter.
Third, watch out for microinverter-based designs. These place small inverters all over the solar cell system, typically one every panel or every few panels (in this case, it would X number of tiles, if it's a microinverter design.) Every installation that uses them that I've come across thus far is a horrific generator of radio frequency interference. It'll do everything from reduce your wifi and bluetooth ranges to blow out your AM and FM reception and anything else going on that actually uses, you know, radio. A quality installation has a central, single, high-quality, high-power inverter. Those shitty little "we do solar power cheap!" companies... there's a very good reason they're cheaper. Because the stuff they install is crapola.
All you want coming from the roof / panel farm is well-filtered DC. Period.
I would hope, given the size of the energy conversion systems in their vehicles, that they didn't go that way, or, that they broke new ground and built quality systems that are actually RF quiet. But it's something to keep in mind until we know more about these proposed systems.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I live in Colorado Springs, reported to be the second best place in the country for photovoltaic applications with 320 days of sunshine per year with moderate winter weather. However, we have one problem and that's hail propelled at 40 to 60 MPH (or greater speeds) down on roofs. It's great for the roofing businesses, but for glass roofs, likely not so good. I'm not talking about those little golf ball hail stones but hail stones the size of tennis balls building piles of hail two feet deep. An expensive glass roof should survive such a storm. I want to see the test results for such an event.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
The grid operator/utility doesn't actually do business with the home owner. Home owners are too small for the effort involved. What the grid operator does business with is called an aggregation entity (Solar City etc). This is why the home owner still buys power at silly low rates.
The aggregation entity does all the accounting and sells the energy the homeowner doesn't use or store to the grid operator at rates mandated by regulatory agencies. The sell rate to the home owner NOT regulated in any way, only the sell to the grid.
That same entity is also involved in what are called rate up/rate down events. This is where the entity get's paid for being able to supply energy during peak loads OR more importantly absorbing and storing energy during excess generation periods. This is why the system having storage is important. Also of note, the home owner does NOT participate is revenues derived from rate up/rate down events.
"Solar FREAKIN' Roof Tiles!"
There's a nice neutral article title. Someone else can come up with a good blurb.
As a member in good standing of the ultra caring liberal elite, I am thankful for the contributions that Mr. Musk has given us to creating a sustainable energy ecosystem. I would encourage Mr. Munsk to not just rest on his laruals though. He must give back and find a way to become more inclusive and allow disadvantaged urban black and latinos to participate in the clean energy eco-system. Remember that Mr Munsk only got to this position because his parents used to heat his home in the winter with black babies (Before 1950 it was common for white families to have a black baby powered furnaces to keep white kids warm in the winter)
He can best create the spirit of inclusiveness by giving large donations to the Clinton global campaign to help disadvantaged Children (Ms. Clinton luvs childrent) Also he needs to give ponies to all the girls in the country. Finally he needs to figure a way to turn clean energy into a devisive racial issue. If he could somehow figure out the racial bias and inclinations of electrons that would be really great. Remember it is not enough to be talented, you must also think correctly. Mr. Musc has done a good first step. However if he does not follow through and continue to do the right steps, I can see a point where Ms. Clinton would be forced to take control of his company for the good of the country and women everywhere.
First obvious drawback: solar cells are only useful on south-facing slopes, meaning non-matching tiles on the north-facing slope of the roof. Of course, I want a wedge shaped house where the entire roof is a north-facing slope, so that the southern exposure shines light through high windows then reflects down off the ceiling. In other words, solar ceiling tiles are only good in the situation where you have no other space to put them in -- but then, most new suburban lots are like that.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
>> I live in Minnesota, where 1/3rd of the year is dark
Well that sounds like a perfect place to do solar! In all the places I've lived, it's dark a full half of the year - the locals call often call it "night".
Frankly FROSTY PISS and GNAA is plenty for me, let's not get emojis in the mix as well.
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
DC filtered from what if there are no inverters?
With small tiles that's a lot of wires even if several panels are connected in series.
There are other benefits of micro-inverters, such as maximizing power generation per-panel and panel health monitoring.
Besides to make a "quiet" powerful inverter it takes a lot of capacitance that is localized in single device. Costly repair?
There are compromises both ways.
4wdloop
There's no point if its too expensive, or if the durability is 25 years (which destroys the whole payback equation). This is kinda like the power-wall. Great concept, but the technology isn't quite there yet. And it may not be quite there for solar roofing tiles either.
Speaking of which, several companies tried selling solar roofing tiles in the past, and had to give up on lack of sales. It isn't a new technology. The question is... is it good enough to hit the necessary sweet spot? My guess... probably not yet.
-Matt
Because Elon Musk
I'm tired of missing out on the fun of all my childhood dreams being laughed at and shattered only to be made a reality for some other guy, apparently effortlessly. Please hire me as your personal barista so that I may live vicariously through you.
MN gets about as much solar as Germany. That means the payback will take a while, mostly because electricity is quite cheap in MN vs Germany. Solar gardens are beginning to form in MN already but Xcel is jerking them around.
3M glass coatings can turn ordinary windows into almost bullet proof windows. See the youtube demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Musk is using 3M glass coatings. The PV cells likely will not break from hail but the glass may crack up. Future refined 3M coatings will perform even better than this application of their existing tech. The coatings go on the inside of the glass from my understanding so these tiles will last for decades - without cracks expect them to go a century and I'd figure the cells would still output (at maybe 50%. I've read about 1970s PV performing at 70%.) Also, a high roof angle helps deflect impacts; evacuated solar tubes are glass and I hear they handle hail just fine.
SNOW is an issue in MN; however, have you seen smooth steel roofing up in northern MN? It is quite often free of snow cover and it wouldn't be too difficult to clear it off. My parent's cabin had a brown steel roof and it almost always was warm enough from the sun to encourage the snow to slide right off. With the proper solar slope (45deg) that is probably steep enough. Furthermore, these are dark blue silicon cells with a glass cover. They will get warm from the sun; like a green house and since MOST solar energy is lost by reflection or as IR heat... the more that is trapped the better. Heavy snow falls will likely require some work but light snows and ice will not be an issue. People in MN should know what a snow rake is already. Small labor price to pay -- and again, it won't be as often as you think.
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Lithium batteries suck in the cold. Just try out powertools in the winter. NiCad is preferable for outside work lasting a while.
I would guess it is likely cheaper to heat the garage you charge your electric car in than let the car's battery management electrically heat the battery pack. (They have heaters because your car would lose range just from sitting while you have the car parked somewhere.) I have not yet read about somebody finding out the details -- likely because the electric heater is nothing compared to the recharging of the car so nobody seems to care to figure it out.
Most people I know in MN do not have a heated garage-- but maybe 1/3 of them have an attached garage which is always warmer than the outside by a bit.
What I wonder is-- is the Powerwall safe to put into the house? (should be since attached garages are part of the house and lithium fires must have been considered... does the insurance company up your fire insurance risk?? Probably not because mine told me I couldn't get a discount for not having any Gas service.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
With little resemblance to actual fact. Nothing to see here, move on.
Great concept, but the technology isn't quite there yet.
Actually, the technology - both photovoltaic and battery - has just gotten there over the last couple years. (Inverters have been there a while but have been improving as well, thanks to Moore's Law.)
It's good to see Musk trying to deploy it commercially.
It's easy to fall into the "It's always 12 (or whatever) years out" fallacy. Sometimes the new inventions DO lead to a practical design and it becomes profitable to actually build and and sell it now, even if it will be obsoleted by an improved version in a couple years.
One of the big drivers of battery (and inverter) technology, by the way, is electric automobiles. Musk has been honing the bleeding edge of that curve for quite a while now. With photovoltaic generation having "crossed over" grid power price-performance - even without subsidies - for much of the potential sites in the continental US, merging it with the new ultra-efficient, ultra-fast battery technologies and high-end, smart, peak-power-tracking/charge control/inverter designs to form a total system makes good business sense.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
You could always, you know piss off somewhere else instead of whining all the time.
I'm all for solar, but the install cost is too high...
I've tried three times to put solar on my roof, it simply makes no economic sense whatsoever...
You could give me the panels for free, and it still wouldn't make sense to install them...
â(TM)
OK, I admire the guy's vision and ambition as much as anybody, but this place is turning into a Musk fanboi site...
It matters how long it would take to pay for itself. i.e. the point where the investment in solar costs less than the amount I would pay the utility company. If break even is 5 years, possibly 10 then people will go with it, but if it's longer than that then it it's not a value proposition. The battery life of the power wall or the solar cell efficiency may even degrade over time, perhaps requiring replacement. There could be ancillary costs such as added servicing & maintenance, or even higher house insurance premiums (due cost of rebuild, risk of fire). On the flip side, can I hasten break even point by selling power back to the grid?
And Solar City / Tesla might not even go with the buy outright option and instead screw people over with some kind of leasing model. I wonder how long the lease lasts and what happens if you cancel - can your tiles be used with someone else's storage solution? Do Solar City turn up and remove the tiles or power pack from the wall? Or disconnect your supply with a punitive reconnection fee? Obviously lock-in to a single provider is bad whether it is a utility company, or a solar panel provider. People thinking they're sitting pretty by moving to solar might be in for a rude awakening.
In 10 years, the CEO of Apple will be Elon Musk. Because nobody wants even thinner smartphones and tablets with lousy battery time. Steve Jobs' products were filling a void. Tim Cooks' products are filling landslides because they are merely replacing existing products.
There is a lack of vision and daring with Apple these days and that's a pity because they'll run down their luck before figuring out that they need to do something more, and then will be much more strapped for resources than they are now. If Musk can sort them into his plans, he'll make them an offer they can't refuse.
It's also a pity because I have a whole lot more respect for Cook as a person and company head than for Jobs.
If you have branches falling and hitting your roof, there's a good chance your house is shaded enough that solar power probably isn't the best idea for you.
You may also want to find out why your shingles are failing prematurely. Do you have poor attic ventilation? That's often the cause of accelerated deterioration in shingle roofing. You should be getting 25+years from a single application of quality asphalt if the conditions are within the operating range for your material.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I saw the announcement, and sure, the roofing tiles LOOKED nice, but there was absolutely no mention of their efficiency, or how they would connect to each other.
Engineers tend to get a little too concerned about efficiency. It matters and more efficient is better but it's not the most important thing here once a critical threshold has been reached. Efficiency has to be good enough to make it economical but it's not actually critical to maximize efficiency. Perfect is the enemy of good in this case.
The issue I'm actually curious about is how the things will deal with lightning strikes...
While the solar tile didn't shatter into shards like the other tiles did, I bet the underlying pv cell was no longer operational after that. Then you would have to either manually bypass it in the circuit, or replace it. Either way, if you're climbing up on the roof to do that, you might just as well replace it.
I can't imagine you'd have to climb on the roof to disable a single tile. That would be idiotic design. The system would have to be smart enough to deal with disabled or misbehaving tiles without any action on the part of the user. Yes you'd eventually have to climb up to replace it but the important thing is that it remain intact and keep water out of the house until you have a chance to do that.
The people in the crowd clapped, and I just shook my head, because that would actually REDUCE the amount of sunlight it can be exposed to.
That's correct but as long as it meets the power needs of the user it's a second order consideration. As long as it generates enough power to cover the typical usage of the home with adequate economy it doesn't matter so much if they sacrifice some efficiency for aesthetics.
And frankly aesthetics matter. Just like with cars, it if is ugly it isn't going to sell well even if the performance is great. Nobody wants an ugly home or an ugly car. To their credit this is one thing that Tesla has understood in their bones from day one. Products have to look good to get people to buy them. And most rooftop solar panel installations to date look like fecal matter quite frankly. Classic solar panels are UGLY and to some degree redundant. (a roof on top of a roof is not a good plan) A good looking roof tile that is also a solar cell is an idea that is due.
It's great for the roofing businesses, but for glass roofs, likely not so good.
I think you might be misunderstanding what "glass" means here. Glass can be a very tough material and we're not talking about the fragile stuff most people think of when they hear the word glass. Any place where PV panels can safely be installed would probably work just fine for these roof tiles. Some will get destroyed just like any other roofing material but if Tesla/Solarcity wants to remain in the business then they probably have gone to the trouble to make them pretty darn durable.
Basically while it makes sense to wait and see how they perform, I wouldn't get too worked up over the mere fact that they are constructed of glass. That actually could be a point in their favor from a durability standpoint compared with some of the alternatives.
First obvious drawback: solar cells are only useful on south-facing slopes, meaning non-matching tiles on the north-facing slope of the roof
Solar cells are optimal on south facing slopes (in the Northern hemisphere) but they are not entirely without utility facing other directions. Just because they aren't getting the maximum amount of power possible doesn't mean they will get no power or that they cannot be economically viable.
Of course, I want a wedge shaped house where the entire roof is a north-facing slope, so that the southern exposure shines light through high windows then reflects down off the ceiling.
Speak for yourself. There are several more variables for me in how I want my house constructed.
In other words, solar ceiling tiles are only good in the situation where you have no other space to put them in -- but then, most new suburban lots are like that.
Not everyone thinks devoting a field or a rooftop to traditional ugly solar panels is a good idea or necessary. And frankly I think it is idiotic to not use the rooftops for something more than keeping the rain out if we can. I have said for many years that it makes no sense that we have vast square miles of rooftops around the globe which are underutilized. If the roof tiles generate power adequate to the needs of the home and with reasonable efficiency for an economically viable price, why would it matter they aren't optimized to the nth degree? Sure more efficient is better but it's not the only or even the most important concern once you reach an economically viable level of efficiency.
OK, I admire the guy's vision and ambition as much as anybody, but this place is turning into a Musk fanboi site...
When you rack up list of achievements even close to as impressive as what Elon Musk has accomplished then we can admire you instead. Objectively he's accomplished some seriously astonishing stuff. He's getting a lot of attention because he's doing genuinely interesting things that actually matter. He's actually doing stuff that most of the people here (myself included) just talk about as wishful thinking. If you can find someone doing more interesting and/or impressive stuff then I'll be more than happy to talk about them instead.
Yet it's never mentioned that manufacturing tempered glass tiles takes at least 3 times the energy compared to regular old clay. Where is that taken into account?
That is one thing I do not get: Climate change will be an extreme challenge, and people evaluate things that will help by their looks?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Or maybe even worse. Ventilation by cutting the roof is a standard practice in fighting structure fires, but with solar panels or tiles like this, it becomes a nightmare. Not only do you have to deal with the added physical obstruction, now it's electrified as well.
Who the h*ll wants those big huge ugly solar panels on their roof. I'm betting a lot of HOA's wouldn't allow them. Making them look like a traditional roof, allows them to blend in without being an eyesore. If the price is competitive, and they can handle the weather like we have here in the midwest (tornado, hail), then this might make it easier to get people to switch to a more enviro-friendly power option. I have NO PROBLEM with alternative energy, as long as the government doesn't force it upon people, and it is competitive with traditional sources.
I would also like to see his test done with a dozen weights on a solar tile that had been exposed to weathering for 10 years.
Does weathering + temperature cycling + microscratches from years of service weaken the tile to where it'll shatter under this kind of abuse?
--PM
What always bugs me with price comparisons is that money automagically shows up on one side of the equation with no accounting. This often happens for everything from solar to home loans to any type of long term investment.
The real way to compare it isn't to say you spend 20k use up front, save 1k a year and in 20 years you break even, it's you alternatively invest the 20k you wouldn't spend in some investment vehicle at 5% which lets say compounds monthly. You better save over 54k in 20 years to break even.
I'm not bashing musks solar tiles, I think they are a neat (if somewhat old) idea that's finally going to be made. But to really calculate the cost benefit you need to be honest on both sides of the equal sign.
The bubble that Google allows me to play within returns exactly zero results for "âoehalo -tesla".
Several online dictionary’s I tried similarly do not call "âoehalo" anything at all.
To me the "âoehalo effect" seems not to be.
Can anyone else elucidate?
battery in case of inclement weather or other outages
My understanding is that the battery system must automatically shut down during power outages, for safety reasons.
Is that still true?
To keep the panels clear if we live in an area with dust, sand, salt, pollen, ice, snow, etc?
The question is... is it good enough to hit the necessary sweet spot? My guess... probably not yet.
Fair enough; on the other hand, it's clearly Elon's guess that the technology is now good enough to hit the necessary sweet spot, and he's putting his money where his mouth is. And he has a notably good track record of noticing when a new technology has become commercially viable.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Big lithium batteries are the equivalent of a giant Galaxy Note 7 hanging on the side of your house.
Now, it's probably a little alarmist to make a statement like this, but large lithium batteries do represent a tremendous amount of stored energy that can be explosive if the container is voided.
There will need to be a decade or more of history before we really know what the risks are.
One thing for certain is that large lithium battery banks aren't something that people will be able to install and forget. And the schemes that I have seen proposed where old battery banks, which are no longer 'energy-dense' enough to be mobile on vehicles, are redeployed to stationary use, represent a risk. Old batteries have seals that deteriorate. When the seal voids is when the explosion occurs.
Which is presumably why they're trying to integrate it into new roofing, which in and of itself has some major labor costs. If they can keep the panel costs in the ballpark of standard shingles it would be a no brainer to install. You're NOT going to re-shingle your roof just to get a new fancy solar roof (unless you have way too much disposable income), but if your roof needs replacement anyways you kill two birds with one stone. The major (unanswered) question here which will really matter is how more than standard materials these solar roof tiles will cost.
For real good technical analysis of this roofing, this episode of EEVBlog is the best.
https://www.eevblog.com/2016/10/31/eevblog-938-tesla-solar-roofs-are-they-viable/
https://youtu.be/h6FXy_LQXrs
-- Given enough time and money, Microsoft will eventualy invent UNIX.
BeauHD is that you?
How do I get one now?
I understand the need for renewable energy and the appeal of appearing to save money on the electric bill, but from a broader perspective small solar installations will always be more expensive than massive utility-scale installations. If the electricity from a small solar installation saves money over the utility, it means the utility had better start installing solar because they are being undercut by it. If the money saved is only *after* tax rebates, then it's not really saving money - it's spending tax dollars. In this case, why not offer the same rebate to the electric utilities? Large installations are just fundamentally better. They always have the right angle, no trees, better economy of scale, better management, easier installation. From the perspective of society as a whole, it just makes more sense to keep electricity as a centrally run utility. If the utilities are falling behind, we need to force/help them to catch up. Maybe this kind of market pressure is what they need to get their act together, but I hope we don't end up hamstringing ourselves by abandoning our utility companies before they can catch up with the times. I'm pretty sure we still need them even if they're being slow to modernize and make the switch to renewables.
What this article misses is that the housing market is still crashing. This product is only good for home owners, and with more and more people renting there is no incentive to invest in things like this.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Mr Musk sells hope to the hopeless at the expense of his shareholders. The folks in buffalo ny certainly are hopeful the solar business pays off. Almost as hopeful as the cuomo folks that have force feed nys funds to drag his dream machine to buffalo. Yes, these are the same folks convicted of bribery to bring business to ny state. This hope is built on what? More hope from the past, over automated car factories and exploding starships. Hope is a drug. And Elon is a dope dealer.
until the first hailstorm. Then you're out a boatload of money.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
Early adopters sometimes want things to be 'quirky' (see Prius, Linux...), but generally mass market does not. These tiles may not be the most efficient but they will get people to say 'Hey I wouldn't mind these on my roof'.
The major (unanswered) question here which will really matter is how more than standard materials these solar roof tiles will cost.
Actually, it's the INSTALLED price difference that matters. Labor is about 60% of the cost of a current-technology new roof, about half-again the material costs.
If, compared to the type of roofing that would have been used instead, the new roof (even with the added wiring) is easier/quicker (and thus cheaper) to install (and repair, since warranty costs may be included in roofing projects), the project could come out the same, or even less expensive, despite moderately more expensive material.
There's also the lifetime issue: Most roofing material wears out with time. If the solar cells don't degrade too rapidly, the glass-based roofing tiles might end up with a substantially longer lifetime than the just-a-roof alternative. (Computing the relative cost of that involves interest rates and amortization.)
The as-installed difference (in current and future cost) is the real cost of the power from the roof. Even if the material is somewhat more expensive, that still could come out zero, or even negative.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
wow! you're really into G.A.Y. N1GG3RS.
what a strange way to share your sexual fetish with the world.
Really? Excessive install costs?
Sounds like your roofing contractors are giving up a snow job.
It happens. The roofing industry is fill of bad actors, ranging from the outright criminal who will screw you out of your money and fuck up the job to the simply incompetent who freak out over a job that makes them uncomfortable.
Of course, once you NEED a new roof, and that will happen, the story may be different.
None of this has anything to do with solar power technology though. It's as out of their hands as the hearing aid industry is for Medicare.
UL Issues First UL 9540 Certified Home Energy Storage System to Enphase Energy
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ul-issues-first-ul-9540-131400285.html
If so, buy a Tesla roof and Tesla battery.
If not, it's cheaper to buy your own, but build the whole system, as labor and permitting and utility connections are the most expensive parts.
Panels are pretty cheap right now, less than coal, oil, or even natural gas.
The advantage of going the Tesla route is you don't have to do most of the boring stuff.
Zoning restrictions are likely to change soon. The nationwide electric vehicle highway system should be complete by Christmas 2017 in the USA.
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