Windows 10's Store Locks 'Call of Duty' Purchasers Into Windows-10-Only Battles (vice.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Two Call of Duty games have been remastered for Windows 10, but if you buy them through the Windows 10 Store there's a problem. "Windows 10 Store players will be isolated from other PC versions of the game," reports the Windows Central site, noting a statement from Microsoft which implies that the decision was made by Activision.

"For unknown reasons, Windows 10 Store customers are segregated from customers who bought the game from Steam, which is by far the most popular platform on PC," reports Motherboard. "Call of Duty fans who made the unfortunate of mistake of giving Microsoft their cash are left sitting in lonely multiplayer lobbies waiting for games that'll never start."
Motherboard reports that at least one player successfully requested a refund, calling the situation "another black eye for a digital storefront that PC gamers already avoid like the plague."

Comments

What we need

[aliquis]

... is to get all of our games on all platforms.

The developers simply need to allow for this to happen.

(I don't mean on console but from all the store front-ends whatever Steam, Microsoft or GOG, but sure bought game available on all consoles and PC would be great.)

Re:What we need

[Mashiki]

... is to get all of our games on all platforms.

The developers simply need to allow for this to happen.

There's nothing stopping developers from doing this now. The a couple of reasons it doesn't happen though. One is because multiple large developers all want their own ecosystem for digital downloads. That in itself is good since it helps with the cost of the games in the end, and in most cases leads to significant discounts. See the 20% off or more on titles from places like Greenmangaming, Gamersgate or Gamesrepublic vs say Steam, Origin or Ubi's thingy. Now getting all games on all platforms? More difficult, since developing for multiple platforms becomes expensive. Especially since consoles require a "buy-in" to develop on and for every patch they require you to pay for certification of said patch. Something that doesn't exist on PC's. Steam, Origin or Ubi's, etc., storefronts all take a cut but that's a one-time cut for each sale. Unless it's sold through a 3rd party/authorized reseller. The whole buy-in/patch certification stuff is something that can add a huge amount of cost to a developer, and for small developers failing on a single platform in terms of sales can be enough to cause them to fail financially. You might be able to float $150-450k+cut of each game sold on one console, on 3 consoles? Nope.

Re:What we need

[Calydor]

Getting all games on all platforms is not feasible, no.

But why the flying hell can't the SAME GAME on PS4, XB1, Windows Store and Steam just ... just play TOGETHER?

FF14 has managed to do it, although I'm told Sony really didn't like the idea - but they have PS3, PS4 and PC players on the same servers. They then have OTHER problems if you want to, say, migrate your standalone PC account to Steam, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Re:What we need

[lgw]

One is because multiple large developers all want their own ecosystem for digital downloads. That in itself is good since it helps with the cost of the games in the end, and in most cases leads to significant discounts.

OK, your UID is too low to be an astroturf account, so, seriously, you're advocating a distribution monopoly as the key to low prices? Really?

See the 20% off or more on titles from places like Greenmangaming, Gamersgate or Gamesrepublic vs say Steam, Origin or Ubi's thingy

Wait, maybe you worded the first quote wrong or something? Origin is EA's "own ecosystem for digital downloads" and unsurprisingly isn't big on discounts. Steam OTOH is famous for "80% off" sales for older games. I have hundreds of Steam games, lots of them big-budget titles, but my average purchase price is well under $10.

Now getting all games on all platforms? More difficult, since developing for multiple platforms becomes expensive. Especially since consoles require a "buy-in" to develop on and for every patch they require you to pay for certification of said patch

Overlap between console peasant gaming and PC overlords isn't necessarily good for game quality, and mobile gaming is the same deal - three different worlds with three different ideals for good UI and good gameplay.

OTOH, making all "PC games" available for Windows, Mac, and Linux is certainly worthwhile. Smaller devs might not be able to afford to test everything thoroughly on three platforms and be wiling to stand behind it, but that's what value-added distributers like GOG could come in. GOG, for the old games they sell, does the work to make DOS and early Windows games work well on modern Windows (and they're starting to do that for Mac, but again for old games). There's certainly room for a Mac-specific GOG-like, that makes indie games run flawlessly on Mac for a larger cut. Ditto Linux. For an indie dev, that's still more money coming in than not being on that platform at all.

Re:What we need

[Lothsahn]

It doesn't work in some genres, especially for PvP.

Let's take Overwatch, for example. PS4 and XBOX gamers, using a game controller, are at a significant disadvantage as compared to mouse/keyboard. For instance, Torbjiorn got a nerf on consoles, but not on PC, because people can track and aim more quickly on PC, negating his advantage there. So you may not want to matchmaker those people together, as the PC gamers will, on average, own the console gamers.

But for Windows Store and Steam not getting matched together? Yeah, that's insanity.

Re:What we need

[Shadow of Eternity]

Because PC players would simply curbstomp console players all the time.

Re:What we need

[Ramze]

Because it's been tried and PC gamers had a serious edge over console gamers. Think about it -- crappy console joysticks and various size TVs vs keyboards with lots of buttons, options, macros, and a mouse with multiple buttons -- not to mention the possible screen setups like multi-monitors.

For PVP, Starcraft console players would be smoked by PC players.

Also, the head's up display (HUD) is usually very different for console vs pc. And PC players have options for outside-game chat and voice programs that let teams coordinate or stealthily share info better.

Re: What we need

[Dahamma]

No one will use UWP for serious 3D games - Angry Birds, sure. CoD, never.

We tried to make a cross-platform video streaming app with it and it took 6-8 months longer than expected (mostly due to Microsoft bugs and limitations, as you said) and in the end STILL didn't actually work properly on most "Windows 10" devices. We couldn't even get it to work properly on all Windows 10 Surface Pro tablets and PCs (let alone non-x86 tablets and phones). Made Android platform fragmentation seem simple in comparison.

Re:What we need

[meerling]

Hmmm... Doesn't that PS4 have actual usb ports that you can plug a normal mouse or keyboard into? I've been told it does, but I don't have a PS4. Or maybe that was the PS3. I don't recall exactly, but one of the console jockeys out there can clarify that for us.

Re:What we need

[Calydor]

And PC players have options for outside-game chat and voice programs that let teams coordinate or stealthily share info better.

When I was a kid that was called a TELEPHONE. I agree with the rest of what you said, but please don't make it sound like console players have exactly zero options for voice communication.

Re:What we need

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes the PS4 (as well as the PS3) has normal USB-ports and you can plug keyboards and mouse into them. BUT the game has to support KB&M controls for it to make a difference and most doesn't.

Re:What we need

[HornWumpus]

Games with PC versions still don't support KB&M on consoles.

The controller users just won't have it.

Re:What we need

[AK Marc]

If I buy from Steam and get the Steam-only version, when I in-game purchase, Steam will take the money and deliver the goods. When I buy from MS, and purchase in-game, MS gets the cash and delivers the goods. The problem is with in-game purchases (and a lesser extent, gaming experience, where MS may have different rules on chat and such than Steam).

I predict the people here will say they should just get along, but that'd be asking direct competitors to get along when it comes to competing for customers.

Re:What we need

[eth1]

Getting all games on all platforms is not feasible, no.

But why the flying hell can't the SAME GAME on PS4, XB1, Windows Store and Steam just ... just play TOGETHER?

FF14 has managed to do it, although I'm told Sony really didn't like the idea - but they have PS3, PS4 and PC players on the same servers. They then have OTHER problems if you want to, say, migrate your standalone PC account to Steam, but that's a whole other can of worms.

Well, aside from the input device inequality that others have mentioned. Keeping multiplayer games in sync requires the clients to be pretty deterministic. Not just deterministic, but in exactly the same way. It's bad enough between Windows, MacOS and Linux all on relatively similar x86-based hardware. Adding in a bunch of console OSes and hardware just makes it worse. Segregating the consoles is the simple way to simplify things.

Re:What we need

[tnok85]

Yeah, I played with a guy in FFXIV who played on console. He set up his laptop next to his TV so he could join Teamspeak with us.

Re:What we need

[rtb61]

Because, as was warned many years ago, M$ is on the path of turning a PC you buy and then buy windows anal probe 10 and install it on there into a XBone and you will be boned, paying double digit licence fees on top of the invasion of privacy for any software that runs on top of Windows (don't forget they can not un-install any software on you computer with each compulsory upgrade, you agreed to it). They are actively working towards blocking software and content that has not paid a windows licence fee, manage to get around the block, no problem next compulsory upgrade they will fix that for you. Windows 10 is FUBAR as a end user operating system.

Re:What we need

[aliquis]

Greenmangaming, Gamersgate and Gamesrepublic sell Steam keys.

What I meant was that have access to the titles you've already bought in the distribution platforms they exist on, that is being able to fetch and run your game through Steam, the Microsoft one, the Apple one(?), GOG, Origin, Uplay.

Re:What we need

[Ash-Fox]

Nope, it's because PC players overwhelmingly cheat and don't see it as cheating.

I can't find any real sources to support your information.

Re:What we need

[Ash-Fox]

Because it's been tried and PC gamers had a serious edge over console gamers. Think about it -- crappy console joysticks and various size TVs vs keyboards with lots of buttons, options, macros, and a mouse with multiple buttons -- not to mention the possible screen setups like multi-monitors.

I have a XIM4 and play Destiny, Star Wars: Battlefront, Titanfall, Overwatch etc. with a keyboard and mouse on my PS4. Some of these games are smart enough to rank your performance sufficiently (In this case, Overwatch and Titanfall) to put you against equally skilled people. As a console gamer, I don't see the problem you're talking about really, outside of games doing poor match making which lead to equally poor experiences on people who are exclusively on controllers too.

Re:What we need

[Ash-Fox]

Games with PC versions still don't support KB&M on consoles.

Final Fantasy XIV on my console does.

The controller users just won't have it.

I have a XIM4 for those games. It's more important to have games that have proper match making than care about what controller they're using in my opinion.

Re:What we need

[Ash-Fox]

I just use one of these for my TeamSpeak push-to-talk key, with a headset that can support two inputs so I can have audio from both my PC running teamspeak and the PS4 for FFXIV.

Re:What we need

[Ash-Fox]

It doesn't work in some genres, especially for PvP.

I don't believe you.

Let's take Overwatch, for example. PS4 and XBOX gamers, using a game controller, are at a significant disadvantage as compared to mouse/keyboard.

I play Overwatch on the PS4 with a keyboard and mouse thanks to the XIM4 (I won't play FPSes without keyboard and mouse), the match making system is capable of determining my capability sufficiently well and matches with players who are very similar in capability to me without any issues, the games are often close and I don't feel significantly advantaged, nor disadvantaged (as opposed to the matchmaking of certain other games which are also in the FPS genere).

Re:What we need

[Mashiki]

I don't believe you.

The reality is on consoles, even with people using a m/k on a console. The people using controllers? Developers have to add extra gimmicks to get them onto the same playing field. Whether it's a bump in life, less damage dealt to them, aim assist, larger hitboxes, doesn't matter. There's dozens of articles on it from different people who work on the industry. This is probably one of the most famous though. To put it simply, no matter the advantage given to a person playing on a console. They got their ass beat into the ground by even mediocre players on the PC.

Re:What we need

[KozmoStevnNaut]

How the hell is using a macro keyboard or painting a target circle on your monitor the same as cheating?

Turbo function controllers have existed for consoles for decades, and what's stopping you from putting a target circle on your TV?

It sounds to me like you just can't compete, and thus you resort to calling everyone else cheaters.

Re:What we need

[SharpFang]

There were some experiments with connecting FPS games across platforms - XBox and PC players in the same matches.

The experiments ended very quickly. The PC gamer, using keyboard and mouse, would literally mop the floor the with console player, who had to use the controller for aiming.

There are some genres where cross-platform multiplayer is okay, but shooters like CoD are definitely out - it's impossible to balance the gameplay between platforms without silly solutions like forcing PC players to use controllers... which would probably result in nearly no PC sales.

Re:What we need

[SharpFang]

The problem is the standard setup: Console + TV set + couch in front of the TV, maybe a coffee table, too low to operate a mouse and keyboard comfortably; PC + desk with keyboard and mouse.

The fact the device can be plugged in and supported by the hardware doesn't help if using it requires entirely rearranging your 'entertainment center'.

Re:What we need

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Games with PC versions still don't support KB&M on consoles.

The controller users just won't have it.

Had the first Max Payne on both console (son) and PC. The console was unplayable while the PC an FPS delight.

Re:What we need

[Xest]

That was always the theory but Shadowrun supported Xbox 360 / PC cross-play and on the 360 I never found myself particularly disadvantaged against PC players, if there was a gulf it certainly never showed up in the end of game scoreboards - you'd have expected PC players to, on average, position higher than Xbox gamers, but it never really happened. The spread was always pretty even.

The biggest problem as I see it for cross-play in general is cheating - people on PS4 wouldn't be happy if for example the Xbox One got hacked and smothered in aimbots, or vice versa with the Xbox One and the PS4 getting hacked, or both consoles and the higher rate of PC hacks and cheats.

Unless you can guarantee an equivalent level of security across all systems cross-play is just going to result in players demanding segregation again because they wont want to play against cheats on another platform.

Re:What we need

[Xest]

On the Xbox One you can already Skype chat in the background and completely bypass game and party chat, the latter of which runs in isolation to games and does nothing to prevent covert information sharing anyway. Only game chat enforces limitations.

Re:What we need

[Cederic]

Aside from the comedy of calling voice chat 'cheating', just because certain techniques are available doesn't mean that players use them.

In decades of online gaming I've seen very few actual cheats. I've admittedly seen a fair few people that were trying to cheat, but usually they end up being easy prey to the people that recognise that some form of automated play is occurring and exploit the weaknesses in the automation.

Nothing quite like tricking a World of Tanks bot into shooting its team mates, for instance.

Re:What we need

[Cederic]

Yes, but sadly not the person to whom you're replying.

What's wrong with wanting to buy a form of entertainment and not be restricted to a specific device? MP3s don't need to be re-purchased to work on your iPod, your mobile phone, your PC, your in-home streaming speakers. A film in MP4 doesn't need to be re-purchased to work on your TV, your other TV, the TV in your kitchen, your tablet and your PC.

Why should games be locked to a single device? Why shouldn't a game that runs on multiple OSes be bought and run on multiple OSes?

Shit, many of the games I own on Steam run on Windows or Linux or OSX, and I sure as shit didn't buy three copies of them. Is adding in Android or a PS4 really so much to ask?

Re:What we need

[Mashiki]

OK, your UID is too low to be an astroturf account, so, seriously, you're advocating a distribution monopoly as the key to low prices? Really?

K, you're really not that stupid are you? If the definition of monopoly is more digital storefronts then there are owners of major US media corporations it's not a monopoly is it. That's not counting sites that sell keys that work on those storefronts.

Wait, maybe you worded the first quote wrong or something? Origin is EA's "own ecosystem for digital downloads" and unsurprisingly isn't big on discounts. Steam OTOH is famous for "80% off" sales for older games. I have hundreds of Steam games, lots of them big-budget titles, but my average purchase price is well under $10

Well, Origin offers discounts all the time. They also offer coupons -- something that Steam doesn't directly offer which will work with most titles. Rather steam "gifts" coupons which you can apply to a product. Steam is famous for that, so is GoG. And Origin is famous for giving away games too. Keep in mind that Steam also doesn't have anything to do with the sales price outside of their initial cut(steam takes 30%--which is far less then other storefronts), every part of that is on the developers side.

Overlap between console peasant gaming and PC overlords isn't necessarily good for game quality, and mobile gaming is the same deal - three different worlds with three different ideals for good UI and good gameplay.

Of course it isn't. Kind of the original point I was making, the key thing that stops it though is buy-in costs. Look at several small studio releases and how it fucked up one, for the case of the other.

OTOH, making all "PC games" available for Windows, Mac, and Linux is certainly worthwhile. Smaller devs might not be able to afford to test everything thoroughly on three platforms and be wiling to stand behind it, but that's what value-added distributers like GOG could come in. GOG, for the old games they sell, does the work to make DOS and early Windows games work well on modern Windows (and they're starting to do that for Mac, but again for old games). There's certainly room for a Mac-specific GOG-like, that makes indie games run flawlessly on Mac for a larger cut. Ditto Linux. For an indie dev, that's still more money coming in than not being on that platform at all.

Most developers can't afford it. When they can afford it though, it's usually down the line when sales expectations have been exceeded and they can blow $50-100k to port it over to another platform and do UI changes. FYI GoG doesn't sell just "old games" it hasn't for a while. They'll sell any game that doesn't have DRM, that's their only bar for entry to their site.

Re:What we need

[Mashiki]

Greenmangaming, Gamersgate and Gamesrepublic sell Steam keys.

They also sell keys that work for Blizzard, Rockstar, Origin, Ubisoft's store, desura, and several others.

In many cases, developers will give you a key if you show that you have prior ownership. And the game is "locked" to a particular ecosystem. Say, only on the apple store and steam store. And you just bought a new apple system and want to get the copy on the apple store. Filing a tech support email works 99% of the time. Hell, I've got a steel collectors box of "Return to Castle Wolfenstin" and I sent an email to Bethesda with a picture of the jewel case, box, and CD and they sent me a key for steam, and asked if I'd like one for the DRM free version from Humble Bundle.

Re:What we need

[lgw]

It's only old games for which GOG does the value-added repackaging into DOSbox with settings that work on modern Windows. My point was that someone with more capital than an indie-dev could offer the same for Mac or Linux distribution, port the game for a larger cut (especially where there game was written in Unity or similar, and it's mostly a test/support cost rather than a deeper port effort).

Windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

Can go FUCK itself.

Re:Windows 10

[The MAZZTer]

This is not Windows 10's fault. The game dev and/or publisher is responsible for this.

Re:Windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

On slashdot everything is Windows 10's fault. Obamacare is actually just a rebranded Windows10care, Climate Change is real but Microsoft shills are trying to suppress it because it's Windows 10's fault.

It includes telemetry that sends data to improve their word prediction and spelling and yes you can turn it off through a simple switch in control panel but apparently this is too hard for users. On the other hand slashdotters lament the dumbing down of computing and advocate for Linux-based desktop OSes (because nobody ever has to configure anything there right?).

I find it really strange, I'm not a religious OS user (I use macOS primarily but use Gentoo for my fileserver, OpenWRT on my router and Windows for gaming and CAD) so I really can't understand how supposedly technically people get all angry and furious rather than just promoting the simple solution. On Windows 10 I just flick that switch off. Everytime I upgrade macOS it asks me to turn on telemetry, I uncheck the box and it's fine, I don't get all angry about it. Apple also now removed the "Apps from anywhere" option in Gatekeeper so you can only do App Store or App Store and Identified Developers, so I have to go into Gatekeeper and approve each outside application individually every time, that's annoying but I'm not going to switch OSes over it. The idea that you should switch OSes because you can't be bothered flicking a switch is ludicrous.

Re:Windows 10

[Nemyst]

Yeah, it's kinda crazy how the entire comments section is idiotic Windows 10 bashing when this is all on Activision and Valve. They're using Steamworks for multiplayer matchmaking, and Steamworks doesn't work if the game isn't sold on Steam (which is why most stores just sell you a Steam key). Microsoft sells the actual game rather than a key, so in order to work on their platform, Activision stripped out Steamworks and implemented another matchmaking solution, segregating both platforms. Since the Microsoft stores sees far fewer sales, the people who bought it there get shafted.

There's a ton of ways this could've been fixed, but there's no reason to blame Microsoft here. The fact that Steam has such a hegemony on PC gaming is not good, and that's just one example of why.

Re:Windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

yes you can turn it off through a simple switch in control panel

This has been repeatedly disproven; unless you're using Enterprise, you cannot fully disable the telemetry.

Re:Windows 10

[KiloByte]

On slashdot everything is Windows 10's fault. Obamacare is actually just a rebranded Windows10care, [...]

You mean both Hitlary and Drumpf are related to Windows 10? You americans are truly fucked...

Re:Windows 10

[LVSlushdat]

Annnd... Can you be *sure* that once you turn OFF the spy-ware, that MS won't push out an "update" that silently turns it back on? Or how can you even be sure those cutesy-tootsy toggleswitches actually *DO* anything? I used/supported MS products for close to 20 years as a syadmin, but when I retired in 2010, I decided I was *done* with MS. After seeing what a turd Windows 10 is, and how MS took a page out of the malware writers playbook on how to forcefeed Windows 10 onto as many computers as they could, my trust level of MS is non-existant..

Re:Windows 10

[Nemyst]

Uh, that's not how it works. Microsoft didn't make the decision to exclude players, Activision/Valve did. If you split a group in half and take one half with you, that doesn't mean the other half is at fault for it.

Re:Windows 10

[strikethree]

This is not Windows 10's fault. The game dev and/or publisher is responsible for this.

Eh? How is it NOT Windows 10's (Microsoft's) fault? They are the ones who enabled the behaviour to begin with! Sure, we can hate Activision for "taking advantage" of what was offered but what did you expect a publishing company to do? They would kill themselves directly if they thought it would give a penny extra profit... never realizing that they just killed themselves.

Oddly, I am reminded of the situation of the woman wearing provocative clothing and walking down dark alleys... It is clear that the rapist and the rape victim both bear some responsibility for what happens next.

Re:Windows 10

[Agripa]

This is not Windows 10's fault. The game dev and/or publisher is responsible for this.

I am sure Microsoft was all broken up about it.

My Apologies

[freeze128]

If you paid for a PC game, and *DON'T* have a disc in your hand as a result, then you are just a plain old sucker. The app store model only works for smartphones, but PC owners DEMAND more. Tell these companies that you won't stand for crappy practices and limited availability. Tell them by not giving Microsoft's store ONE RED CENT!

Re:My Apologies

[DoofusOfDeath]

If you paid for a PC game, and *DON'T* have a disc in your hand as a result, then you are just a plain old sucker. The app store model only works for smartphones, but PC owners DEMAND more. Tell these companies that you won't stand for crappy practices and limited availability. Tell them by not giving Microsoft's store ONE RED CENT!

I disagree. My use of Steam over the last 7? 8? years has been nothing but a pleasure.

The only downside I've ever had with Steam is that it lets me easily buy games from Sid Meiers, which for me are like a life-ruining crack addiction.

Re:My Apologies

[Yosho]

The app store model only works for smartphones, but PC owners DEMAND more.

Incorrect. Physical sales for PC games have been dead for years. Even if you buy a boxed copy of a game, it will probably just have a Steam code inside. Among developers who release their games for other platforms, it's still common for >90% of a game's sales to be through Steam.

And honestly, it's better that way. I don't need boxes and DVD cases cluttering up my house when I'm going to use them exactly once and then put them away for a few years until the next time I get a new computer and need to reinstall them. Not to mention that it's easy to lose or damage a disc, and for older games it can be very difficult to track down a physical copy that somebody's willing to sell.

Re:My Apologies

[Calydor]

You mean like that one game where the only thing on the DVD was an 8 MB Steam install file?

Re:My Apologies

[Anna Merikin]

While I agree with your conclusions, there is an important fact you ignore: PCs now have less than 50% of the internet market in general, and I suspect smartphones and other devices' share will only grow in future, considering the slowing sales of PC and the increasing penetration of alternate gaming platforms. MS doesn't seem to see a way to stem the flow from computers to other devices, so they are maximizing their profits for the short term.

MS has a habit of showing their hand -- remember when they sold Windows subscriptions to businesses when there were no OS upgrades for years between 2000 and the disaster called Vista?

MS in, is a way, in the same bind they put Sun, et al. in a decade ago: they are now the de facto business platform, and they want to leverage that, even at the expense of their future PC personal software. There is much more cash in selling licenses to businesses than delivering OSes to manufacturers at bulk prices which were sometimes nearly free.

MS is a mature monopoly which does not see any competitors on the horizon -- except for phones and consoles. Otherwise, they would act differently. They know what they''re doing and they expect their PC customers mostly not to care.

Re:My Apologies

[ledow]

Well, how IS the 1990's? Because that's the last time you could reasonably work that way.

And I have to say, much as I dislike the concept, Steam has been flawless for 13+ years for me and I don't buy games any other way any more.

I do claim my games on all platforms (e.g. GOG Connect, Origin etc.) when they allow or I have extra keys from bundles, just to spread them out and give me a game if Steam should ever be down. But I have 1000+ games on Steam and I can't see me stopping absent serious problems.

By comparison, I've never even looked in the Windows Store, I just disable it on all machines (work ones that I manage, and personal) and all my Games For Windows Live games have been retired or stopped working properly. Same for GameSpy and others.

I realise the limitation and I'd love every game to be DRM-free but it's just not practical in this day and age. Steam is the best compromise there is, and it shows.

But the last time a disc touched my PC? Years ago. They're all sitting upstairs and I *re-bought* most of the games I was keeping the discs for on online downloads (like Steam or GOG) just for the convenience factor. I'm probably never going to put those boxed games anywhere ever again and a lot of them are hard to get working nowadays anyway.

So your sentiment is so misguided. Sure, ideally, it would work like that. But it doesn't. That's the simple fact of the matter. And you're 13 years too late to change that. Kids these days don't even understand the concept of a machine that's not on the Internet, programs that don't just download and install at the touch of a button, or things like serial keys. They literally were born AFTER that stuff was dead.

And good luck buying a laptop with a CD drive nowadays, or one with an OS that lets your old games run without you having to do anything.

Re:My Apologies

[smooth wombat]

which for me are like a life-ruining crack addiction.

Yes, trying to overcome the blatant cheating coded into his games does make life difficult.

Re:My Apologies

[exomondo]

If you paid for a PC game, and *DON'T* have a disc in your hand as a result, then you are just a plain old sucker.

Just because you have a disc doesn't mean you own anything, in fact you license the software and that's the way it has worked for decades. So if you think there's a difference between having the game on a physical disc or downloaded to your hard drive then you haven't been paying attention.

The app store model only works for smartphones, but PC owners DEMAND more.

No they don't, the runaway success of platforms like Steam PROVES that.

Re:My Apologies

[Mitreya]

I disagree. My use of Steam over the last 7? 8? years has been nothing but a pleasure.

I believe that's an exception that proves the rule. A standalone game (not from Steam) that comes with a "here's your download code" or a "here's CD with a tiny binary that will attempt to download 100GB of the actual game when clicked" is unacceptable and should be illegal. It requires being online and it will stop working at some arbitrary point in the future (and that's besides issues of being able to resell a download code).

I guess we have to wait until Europe (or some other place with customer protections) will force that issue.

Re:My Apologies

[theArtificial]

there is an important fact you ignore: PCs now have less than 50% of the internet market in general, and I suspect smartphones and other devices' share will only grow in future, considering the slowing sales of PC and the increasing penetration of alternate gaming platforms. MS doesn't seem to see a way to stem the flow from computers to other devices, so they are maximizing their profits for the short term.

50% of a HUGE market which regularly has games at $49+, how many mobile games are people buying at that price? It's like Apple vs Android, there's more droid yet Apple nets 3/4 the profit. Microsoft can't figure out what it's doing - it's getting owned everywhere: lost it's ass with Windows Phone, Windows 10 is lackluster, their last bastions are Office and an attempt at the tablet market.

Re:My Apologies

[thegarbz]

WTF is a disc and where does it go on my Macbook or my Dell or my HP?

Re:My Apologies

[AK Marc]

They try to cross-brand and abuse their monopoly. The problem is they are so bad at it, it doesn't matter. IE exists solely to download Chrome. Now they have "buy on Xbox, use on Windows 10". But with games designed consoles you have to pay console prices on to get the Windows, so it's more a curiosity.

Though Recore surprised me. I played on the PC while the kids were playing something else on the Xbox, and when they got off, I shutdown the PC and opened Recore on the Xbox, and was saved in the same spot. Being able to play a campaign seamless between multiple machines (same or different platform) is nice, if you play on multiple machines.

Re:My Apologies

[AK Marc]

And for all the online platforms, Steam is one of the few that lets you play (almost) anything offline, when Steam is offline. I've tried on Origin and others, and if you were to come home to a fiber cut and have no Internet, you can't get online to "authorise" offline play. While Steam will let you restart in offline mode and play almost any offline game. I haven't tried the Win10 store games. I don't own any yet. But I expect MS to be unforgiving if you are offline.

Re:My Apologies

[blind biker]

I realise the limitation and I'd love every game to be DRM-free but it's just not practical in this day and age.

Tell that to GOG, where all games are in fact DRM-free.

Re:My Apologies

[ArtemaOne]

Agreed. Civ V is the whole reason I have Steam. And now I have hundreds of games, damnit.

Re:My Apologies

[ArtemaOne]

Agreed. I even purchased the original Unreal about a year ago so I never have to put that disc in ever again.

Re:My Apologies

[lgw]

IE exists solely to download Chrome

Not happy with the amount of telemetry Windows 10 has by default? We've got an answer for you! Download Chrome and more than double your keylogging! Chrome: when privacy is for other people.

Re:My Apologies

[DavidRawling]

There's no legal difference that I can see, but there's a significant functional difference.

Want to install that game from floppies on an old machine you built? Go for it. You have the software, you have the media, go go gadget disks!

Want to install that copy of $Game from $DeadPublisher, you have the license but the download server for the "installer" is offline and the publisher's new owner doesn't want you to play the old game, buy the new one this year instead? Tough!

Re: My Apologies

[Yosho]

It sounds like you're not actually very familiar with Steam. There are many >20 year old games on it. Off the top of my head, King's Quest came out in 1984, so there's a 32 year old game.

But your real problem is with DRM, not digital distribution in general. That's a valid concern, but there are mitigating factors there -- it's optional on Steam and many publishers don't actually include DRM in their games, and you can buy from non-Steam retailers like GOG that don't allow DRM at all.

But that's all beside the point that, even if you don't like DRM, physical distribution of PC games is dead. That's not an opinion.

Re:My Apologies

[dissy]

I still see no functional difference what so ever. Both options in your example are identical.

Publisher takes the servers offline?
Then no you can't download the software from them anymore.
If you have a copy of the downloaded software, you can't activate it because the servers are down, and it is useless.
If you have a copy of the software on disc, you can't activate it because the servers are down, and it is useless.

They look functionally the same to me so far.

In order to get either copy to work, you have to modify the software in a way deemed illegal to do.
But legality aside let's say we go down that path.

I can go to the pirate bay and download the patch to modify the software to run without activation.
That patch will apply to the software you have on disk.
That same patch will apply to the software from the download servers, which will be on the pirate bay included with the patch.

In both cases the software would then work. Again they look functionally the same to me so far.

The only real difference is if you refuse to download anything, including the modification to patch the software to work.
In THAT case, my downloaded software can be fixed with the downloaded patch and will work.
Your software on disk will still require that patch to work, which you refuse to download.

Downloaded version works, disk version does not.

In any realistic situation both versions of the same bits are identical.
Only in an idealistic world where you never download anything is your method of having the software on disk worse off in the end and leave you with non-functional software.

Re:My Apologies

[smallfries]

That would be anybody who has ever played any version of Civ on difficulty higher than Prince, i.e. about 95% of the /. readership...

Re:My Apologies

[ledow]

And half the games on there are pre-1995.

I have dozens of games on GOG. And a thousand on Steam.

I'm not saying there's anything other than market-barriers to doing so, but that's historically proven to be a pipe-dream for anything other than your own products (Witcher, etc.) or old ones that nobody cares about any more because they aren't going to be pirated by the people who want them (most of the GOG catalogue).

Re:My Apologies

[tepples]

First, to use the single-player, same-screen, or LAN portions of the game during a long Internet outage lasting months or more, such as military deployment. Second, to install a 15 GB game as a subscriber to cellular or satellite Internet with a 10 GB per month data allowance. Third, to use the single-player, same-screen, or LAN portions of the game after its publisher has gone out of business.

Re:My Apologies

[tepples]

PCs now have less than 50% of the internet market in general, and I suspect smartphones and other devices' share will only grow in future

Last I checked, most "smartphones and other devices" had only a flat sheet of glass and an accelerometer as their only input devices, and this setup was highly non-optimal for many game genres. Good luck playing a Mega Man-style game or a Metroidvania on a phone. Among devices with a web browser and a physical keyboard or gamepad, what's the usage share of PCs? And what's the share of "smartphones and other devices" with a USB or Bluetooth gamepad connected?

Re:My Apologies

[tepples]

It's a 120 mm diameter sandwich of polycarbonate and aluminum that goes in the DVD reader attached to your device's USB port. A $40 DVD reader can prove cheaper than overage fees assessed by your ISP for exceeding your Internet access subscription's monthly data transfer allowance.

Re:My Apologies

[strikethree]

Just because you have a disc doesn't mean you own anything, in fact you license the software and that's the way it has worked for decades.

No, no no. That is the paradigm that they want you to believe. I have never believed it for an instant. If I give you money to use something, *I* get to choose how I use it. This "licensing" bullshit is just that, bullshit. Nobody gets to dictate to me how I use something.

Does that mean that I break software that tries to enforce some sort of licensing scheme? Certainly. Do I care if it what I am doing is considered illegal? Not at all. Fuck everyone who thinks they can control me. I am free and independent. I will do what I want. Go ahead society, cage me. I have already won more than you can take. Take your "licensing" paradigm and shove it where the sun does not shine.

Re:My Apologies

[thegarbz]

Monthly data transfer allowance? DVDs? Are you guys stuck in the 90s or something?

Re:My Apologies

[tepples]

Monthly data transfer allowance? [...] Are you guys stuck in the 90s or something?

Many U.S. ISPs do in fact have pricing structures stuck in the 1990s, in particular satellite and cellular ISPs with their 10 GB/mo caps and $5 to $10 per GB overage fees.

Re:My Apologies

[Cederic]

What cheating?

How can a game cheat? It does what it's programmed to do, that's not cheating, that's game design.

Dislike the design, but calling it cheating? Really?

Re:My Apologies

[thegarbz]

I know my post was 40% serious and 60% tears running down my face.

Re:My Apologies

[exomondo]

No, no no. That is the paradigm that they want you to believe. I have never believed it for an instant.

Oh well because you never believed it I guess it mustn't be true then. If I give you money to use something, *I* get to choose how I use it.

This "licensing" bullshit is just that, bullshit.

Well it just isn't, regardless of what you say. Whether it is proprietary software or free software it isn't sold to you, it is licensed to you. I don't know why you fail to understand that, the concept isn't that difficult.

Does that mean that I break software that tries to enforce some sort of licensing scheme? Certainly.

And of course now they are just locking things down and making software "cloud based" so that you no longer even have the software. If you want to go and buy the software (and own it) then go right ahead, but I doubt you could afford it.

To be clear I'm not saying I agree with the paradigm, but I'm not going to pretend I don't understand it just because I don't agree with it and certainly this "cloud" paradigm is one way companies are moving to enforce it.

Re:My Apologies

[exomondo]

So if software licensing is invalid then the GPL for example, is an unenforceable license too. In any case the move away from desktop software to cloud based software and registration and DLCs for gaming is the way of enforcing it, it's happening more and more and you're just blind or incredibly naive if you don't see that.

Re:My Apologies

[exomondo]

Want to install that copy of $Game from $DeadPublisher, you have the license but the download server for the "installer" is offline and the publisher's new owner doesn't want you to play the old game, buy the new one this year instead? Tough!

And you have had your head in the sand and haven't noticed the prevalence of activation servers, 0-day patches and DLCs? That disc you have is next to worthless.

It's about time.

[Gravis Zero]

The people that continue to support Microsoft's grip on gaming are finally getting what they are supporting: quarantine.

The walled garden....

[Fedora23_Fanboy]

Well there it is, Microsoft's walled UWP garden taking shape...

Not a mystery

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not unknown. Activision uses Steamworks for the multiplayer Steam version of the game, which isn't compatible with non-steam games. If Activision wanted this game to have shared PC multiplayer they should have picked a system that would work with different copies of the game.

There is only one word needed

[smooth wombat]

Suckers

windows store locks out mods and other stuff that

[Joe_Dragon]

windows store locks out mods and other stuff that you get with non sandboxed steam and gog games.

have to pay the fee to use the word olympics

[Joe_Dragon]

You have to pay the fee to use the word olympics

Re:have to pay the fee to use the word olympics

[Z00L00K]

Speshual Olympusch for you then.

Re:have to pay the fee to use the word olympics

[K. S. Kyosuke]

That's retarded.

I hope gamers continue to avoid Windows Store

[iampiti]

If anything to prevent Microsoft from getting more power and making Windows 10 worse and more closed.
In general it's better for power to be distributed among several companies instead of having a few have a lot of power. When software companies do we all know they'll try to lock you into their ecosystems. So in this case I prefer Steam has the majority of gamers into their store instead of Microsoft.
They already have a lot of power over games with Windows and Xbox and if they were to get more they'd only get worse.
Also I must admit I'm mad at Microsoft for what they've turned Windows into

i believe this is on dev more

[arbiter1]

The dev made the choice in the end to lock 2 up seperately. They could setup servers and everything to have both play together but didn't so not completely MS's fault for what in the end was the dev's choice.

Stories like these.

[Z00L00K]

Stories like these just makes me depressed and realizing that we have a world worse than what's depicted in Max Headroom.

I think that both Aldous Huxley and George Orwell underestimated what we would come to.

LOL. Click bait is click bait.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing from MSFT or UWP, technically or licensing wise prevents cross platform.

This was a decision by Activision.

Re:LOL. Click bait is click bait.

[BenJeremy]

THIS.

Windows Store isn't somehow magically preventing the game from talking to players on other platforms. This was a conscious decision by Activision to do this. Why? I have no idea, but let's simply skewer Microsoft over Activision's choice and not ask them why this was done.

Re:LOL. Click bait is click bait.

[strikethree]

This was a conscious decision by Activision to do this. Why? I have no idea, but let's simply skewer Microsoft over Activision's choice and not ask them why this was done.

No. Nobody gets a free ride on this one. We skewer them both: Microsoft for making a platform that is incompatible and Activision for choosing a customer hostile solution.

That is because of VAC anti cheat I guess

[aepervius]

Steam has it , windows 10 store does not (or refused it).

Re:Stop trying to kill Steam

[meerling]

They all saw the success of Steam and want as big a portion of that pie as they can get. Along those lines they decided that baking their own pie was the best way to do that. Too bad they don't seem to understand that they didn't bake a better pie, and the crowds that make the demand just don't fall over themselves to try something different from what they already know they like.

Ok, to damn many pie references, now I'm hungry. CYA, I'm off to find some food. (Followed by gaming)

Re:How much longer?

[LVSlushdat]

Wish I had mod points... This is the most concise description of the monster that is Microsoft I've ever seen... Theres a growing number of us out here that are NOT PUTTING UP WITH THIS CRAP... MS is gonna have a seriously tough time "embracing/extending/extinguishing" Linux.. Oh sure, they could buy the two "big" Linux companies, Redhat and Canonical, but thats just a small piece of what Linux actually *is* ... Somebody's gotta say it "FUCK YOU MICROSOFT!"

Handed a gun by EA, uses it to shoot self in foot

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft should never have agreed to this in the first place. What a bad decision to allow this crippled version in their digital store.

Re:windows store locks out mods and other stuff th

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam encrypts game files for many games, you are simply wrong.

Re:windows store locks out mods and other stuff th

[Joe_Dragon]

http://www.howtogeek.com/24301...

encrypting game files for DRM is one thing but Steam workshop is really good.

This is Microsoft

[Trogre]

Sounds a lot like what they're doing to Minecraft. You can play the Windows 10 version, but then can't play with anyone else.

Re:Windows 10 is officially malware

[Chas]

Troll eh?

What do you call a piece of software, outside of your control, that performs actions on your system against your will, operates outside your control, modifies your system without permission, steals data, spews unwanted ads at you, etc?

Windows 10 is, BY DEFINITION, malware.

Worked for a AAA publisher over 10 years ...

[drnb]

If you paid for a PC game, and *DON'T* have a disc in your hand as a result, then you are just a plain old sucker

I worked at a famous AAA publisher for over 10 years. In the early days we joked that the only thing that had to work on the manufactured disc was the installer and patcher, not necessarily the game. Industry wide this joke eventually turned into reality to a large degree, day 1 patches are absolutely planned and necessary.

That said, I download the standalone patchers if available and back them up so that if in another 10 years I feel nostalgic about something I have a chance of installing and patching it to a stable version.

What can I say?

[hyades1]

Once again, Windows 10 users get what they deserve.

Re:Windows 10 is officially malware

[Ash-Fox]

What do you call a piece of software, outside of your control, that performs actions on your system against your will, operates outside your control, modifies your system without permission, steals data, spews unwanted ads at you, etc?

I use windows 10 and don't have this problem.

Long distance cost money

[tepples]

When you were a kid, how often did your parents let you use premium phone services, such as long distance and three-way calling?

Fishing expedition for app and driver lists

[tepples]

Even at the most basic telemetry level in Windows 10 home or Pro, Microsoft still sees a list of all applications and device drivers installed on a machine, as well as the IMEI of the aircard if one is installed. This information can be used to incriminate a user if a prosecutor or civil plaintiff gets a judge to approve a subpoena for it. If you want, I can describe more specific hypothetical cases that could arise.

15 GB game on a 10 GB cap

[tepples]

Kids these days don't even understand the concept of a machine that's not on the Internet, programs that don't just download and install at the touch of a button, or things like serial keys.

But they do understand things like "running out of data for the month".

When was offline mode fixed?

[tepples]

Steam is one of the few that lets you play (almost) anything offline, when Steam is offline. I've tried on Origin and others, and if you were to come home to a fiber cut and have no Internet, you can't get online to "authorise" offline play. While Steam will let you restart in offline mode and play almost any offline game.

When Steam first came out years ago, it had that exact same problem of needing to be online in order to go offline. In which year did Valve fix that, so I can tell how many years the other PC paid download platforms are behind Steam?

Cap

[tepples]

Those disc games that do not require activation, or which allow telephone activation instead of Internet activation, can be installed offline. In addition, even those disc games that do require Internet activation install much more quickly on a slow or capped Internet connection than multi-gigabyte downloadable games because a patch is usually smaller than the entire game.

Nobody made a decision to block anything

[phorm]

Matchmaking on Steam is provided through Steamworks. Steamworks is only available to players on ... Steam. So nobody made an active decision to block other platforms, but rather that activation was too cheap/lazy to provide a distribution-system-independent platform for matchmaking/multiplayer. It's like complaining you can't use Prime for a package ordered through walmart.com.

Re:Windows 10 is officially malware

[Chas]

What do you call a piece of software, outside of your control, that performs actions on your system against your will, operates outside your control, modifies your system without permission, steals data, spews unwanted ads at you, etc?

I use windows 10 and don't have this problem.

Good for you. Can you, authoritatively, say the same for the millions of other Windows 10 users?

Re:Windows 10 is officially malware

[Ash-Fox]

Can you, authoritatively, say the same for the millions of other Windows 10 users?

I can authoritively say that millions of other Windows 10 users don't know how to use Windows where this is the case.