Slashdot Mirror
New Tesla Buyers Will Have To Pay To Use Superchargers (theverge.com)
Tesla has updated its Supercharging Network of free fast-charging stations. Customers who purchase Teslas after January 1st, 2017, will be required to pay "a small fee to Supercharge." The fee itself "will be charged incrementally and cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car." The Verge reports: Current Tesla owners with Supercharger-equipped cars will be able to use the stations for free for the life of those vehicles, and a Tesla spokesperson tells The Verge that the free charging will transfer to successive owners. Customers who buy Teslas after that January 1st cutoff will be afforded 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits each year, good for about 1,000 miles, according to Tesla. The company says it will release more details about the change later this year, but added that "prices may fluctuate over time and vary regionally based on the cost of electricity." "Our Supercharger Network will never be a profit center," the company wrote in a blog post about the change. Tesla says that, by losing less money on providing free electricity at these stations, that the fees will subsidize the continued expansion of the Supercharger network. The Superchargers allow for a full charge in about 75 minutes or a half charge in about -- much faster than the standard Level 1 or Level 2 chargers found around the U.S. -- and Tesla has built 734 Supercharger stations (with nearly 5,000 chargers) since the network was started in 2012.
Yeah, that's pretty sloppy. From the original article, the number dropped was "30".
An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan. -- George Patton
That should almost cover the miles back and forth to the dealership for the higher-than-industry average service issues and recalls.
The Superchargers allow for a full charge in about 75 minutes or a half charge in about 30 minutes
FTFY
Build them by highways... with food/recreation/etc., places, since people have to stay there for $X time anyway, generate revenue/profit from other things folks will be doing while waiting for their cars to charge. FREE is a hard price to beat---and most folks wouldn't just sit for an hour---they'd want things to do---things they don't already mind paying for. So free charge gets them to show up...
The first one is always free...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I'm not even sure whether this is legal. Or probably it is, because tesla lawyers have made it part of the preorder conditions.
It had better cost a hell of a lot less than filling up a comparable gas car.
If things go well for Tesla, there are going to be more and more Tesla cars on the road. For the early adopters, the idea of free charging stations was a great bonus point to offset any complaints about range. Naturally, it costs Tesla money to build and maintain these, and of course, the power isn't free. As long as they charge reasonable prices, I'm fine with this. If I owned an electric car, the vast majority of my charging would be done at home, so even if a recharge at a Tesla station cost as much as a tank of gas, I'd still be paying a lot less to power a Tesla than I would to fuel a gasoline car throughout its life.
The fee itself "will be charged incrementally and cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car."
I should bloody well hope so!
In other news, the fees for charging a cell phone will cost less than the price of filling the coal tender behind a stem engine.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Why do people keep buying these unsafe cars from a manufacturer who can't be trusted?
it might have something to do with... i dunno, facts: Tesla’s Model S Sedan Named Safest Car In The History Of Cars
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Safe, but unreliable
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Since I have purchased a Leaf, I have charged away from home twice. Once at the dealership, and once at the local power company when my wife forgot to plug in at night. Both charges were free.
Avoiding gas stations where pan-handlers ask for money to put gas into their non-existent cars...PRICELESS!
We do not know for sure, but my guess is that if never will be a profit center. They will charge just enough for it to pay for itself.
It should have been obvious that free supercharger use would never be more than a perk for early adopters. It would never be economically sustainable for mass market when the Model 3 is out, and most people will do the vast majority of charging in their garage overnight. Anyone who gets worked up over this obviously has a preexisting anti-Tesla bias.
"...based on the cost of electricity..."
Someone really needs to tell Elon Musk about solar cells... he could offer it for free again.
While this is new news for Tesla perhaps, it's nothing new or surprising in the scheme of trying to get people to go all electric before it makes economic sense for everyone.
Just look what the states carpool lanes did, first they offered the carpool lanes up for use to ULEV ICE vehicles, to incentivise buying hybrids and similar cars, then a couple years later, removed that "perk" from the deal. Then they allow full EV cars to use the HOV lanes, and soon it will be taken away (just watch...).
When full EV cars started getting pushed hard, with the Leaf and Tesla, companies (at least in Silicon Valley and Bay Area), were quick to convert the best parking spots closest to the building and right next to the handicap spots to EV charging stations, (mostly free of charge). Malls and other public parking spots started doing the same, to make it more attractive to buy EV vehicles even though they make little sense to much of population (economically speaking). Then most of the free chargers got turned into pay chargers (they still have primo parking locations though).
Now Tesla announces that the free SuperChargers are going to cost money... big surprise, as it follows the same pattern that been done for years now by state governments and local businesses with agendas to push.
I'm sure people will still act surprised when Roof Solar and EV purchases stop getting government subsidies to help prop them up to falsely compete in the market when it can't otherwise compete with existing technologies due to performance or price.
https://igg.me/at/ore/
:/
Well, not really. It's only got until the end of the month anyway, and nobody ever put a dime in it. If it DID work, I could still get the thing in time for it to work. But nobody cared.
Also, indiegogo isn't even working right now, so that's great.
Ahem... "steam engine".
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I'm sure you didn't mean to improperly imply that the omission of the 30 minute charge omitted in the Summary would only give you 10-15 miles. Of course not, that would be pushing your coal-fired, grab-em-by-the-pussy, heat the oceans until all the coral and polar bears die, alt-right agenda - which I'm sure you didn't intend. So, just in case you were concerned, here is the quote from the article you ;linked regarding the 30 minute super charging partial fill up:
"170 miles of driving range from just 30 minutes of Supercharging"
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
on it's new trucks for service. Or Chevy, or GMC, or Honda, or Nissan. Because none of them cover a single cent. And, of course, when you have a problem with a traditional vehicle manufacturer, they go out of their way to deny any problem with their car, charge you an arm and a leg to fix the problems they won't, and don't ever provide a fix unless there's a lawsuit pending.
That's why your own Consumer Reports ranks it the "Most Satifying Car to Drive" http://www.consumerreports.org...
Maybe if the oil-bound manufacturers learned a little about customer service, they wouldn't be holding onto the anchor end of the customer satisfaction survey.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You don't understand Musk. He's already made the big fortune that gives him everything me might desire for the rest of his life. Many billionaire's can't turn that off though, and keep seeking to make more and more money. Not Musk. Musk is motivated by changing the world. That's why he's doing Tesla and Space X and the rest.
He's already given away his patent rights on all technology in the superchargers, free for any competitor. That is not the action of a man with a plan to make money from superchargers.
Until the price of gas stays at 4-10 dollars per gallon, for a long time, and/or until you can "fill them up" in 2-3 minutes, as you can with a gasoline vehicle, and/or the range can be extended for 300-400 miles per cycle, and/or the price comes down to a comparable gasoline vehicle.
for those that do monthly payments.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
In exchange to quick charge your car for your cash, the deal will be to build more charging stations! Think about it. More locations, nationwide, smaller batteries=faster car! Also..(You're probably going to hate me for this, but I'm still going out on a limb) Maybe we could include in the charging fee, a road use tax to SHUT UP the griping about people who say battery powered cars are free-loaders since the cars don't pay gasoline taxes. I personally feel that it would remove a big blockade that impedes MORE electric cars.. Yay!!
But some people want a grenade so want the safest one.
Most people are - given that most people sleep for 8 hours a night, and don't use their car for significantly longer than that.
Further to that - in locations where EVs are taking off, it's pretty normal for work car parks to have a bunch of chargers (there's another 8 hours of the car sat around with no one in it), along with a bunch of shops/restaurants.
Owning an EV, I may be biased, but my experience so far is that I spend far *less* time messing about putting go-juice of one kind or another in my car, because I plug it in, go to work, come back, and have a full charge.
The new buyers pay for the previous ones. That looks a bit like a Ponzi scheme.
Superchargers are meant for long distance travel, not for everyday charging. Most Tesla owners wake up every morning to a car full or electrons charged at home overnight, ready to roll ~220+ miles. Unfortunately some people, mostly in CA, decided they are willing to wait 30min to an hour every day just to get their $1-$5 worth of free electricity. That in turn caused congestion and people who were traveling long distances were annoyed having to wait, delaying their travels. I am speculating that the original thought was that people spending $70K+ on a car would not value their time at $4/hr or less (much less if they have to add another hour to drive to the nearest supercharger) but that turned out to be incorrect for small percentage of people. As Model 3 is priced at much lower price-point ($35K) and it's expected to sell a lot more units, so Tesla figured this problem will get worse. Charging a nominal fee to charging makes it not worth for someone who has a charger at home to drive to a supercharger to charge $2 worth of electricity. Only people who actually need them will use them.
PS> All the "old owners" have paid a $2,000 fee for the lifetime access to superchargers. It used to be an optional fee, but quickly was included with every car sold. A great majority of those owners will never get $2,000 worth of charging (e.g. coast-to-coast round trip will get you about $200 of free electricity). Not including this $2,000 in the price of the car will allow Tesla to keep the model 3 car price lower.
... according to US tests. In European tests, the Tesla Model S is just a standard car. Here are the Euro NCAP best cars of each class: http://www.euroncap.com/de/bew...
For comparison, here are the numbers for the Model S: http://www.euroncap.com/de/res... and here are the numbers for e.g. a Volvo XC90. http://www.euroncap.com/de/res...
Just look at the numbers, e.g. "safety equipment" Volvo 100% to Tesla 71% or "adult passenger safery" Volvo 97% to Tesla 82%. "Safest car in the history of cars" my ass.
Good for him, and I appreciate what he does.
But, I'm not naive, and I still think a person with his responsibility deserves to be under a magnifying glass.
Double whoosh
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Whoosh.
No sig today...
Given I'm in my 50s, it's not me that doesn't understand the world because of inexperience. It's the stupid AC. He can't even guess someone's approximate age.
This. EVs are taking off all over Europe despite the incredibly free superchargers around. Most people don't use a supercharger.
and keep seeking to make more and more money. Not Musk.
Soooo....that's why the superchargers cost money now?
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
I am a Tesla owner.. I suspect that a large part of the motivation for charging is to have Tesla drivers of the future self limit on hitting the charging stations near their home to get a free charge. I can tell you that many of the stations in different towns are clogged by people that live 3 miles away..
AC,
There's no way you can know Musk's history and NOT come to the same conclusion as the BasilBrush. The story of SpaceX's beginning is insane, consisting of Russians, rockets, bags of money, and balls of steel. Your easy dismissal reeks of ignorance. I'll get off your lawn now.
Why do people keep buying these unsafe cars from a manufacturer who can't be trusted?
it might have something to do with... i dunno, facts: Tesla’s Model S Sedan Named Safest Car In The History Of Cars
Even if I do agree that the AC OP is a troll, you should use source a little more recent than 2013 to draw those conclusion. There's a lot of event that happened for the model S since 2013.
Elok
Companies often operate close to the line or even in the red until a product becomes successful and/or strong manufacturing lines can be established. Getting past the early/startup stages is *hard* because you have to build everything (either infrastructure, or business relationships) from scratch while at the same time getting a product out and visible to the public. You need to build a strong following to the product at the same time you're building your chains. That's really hard, and why entrenched interests in markets such as automobiles etc tend to outweigh any newcomers.
It is a good response to OP, but crash worthyness isn't exactly the only measure of safety.
Tesla Model S stock braking distance is 174 feet from 60.
The P85D with upgraded brakes and rims is a respectable 118 feet. That 174 feet is worse than most all pickup trucks. Where as most of the cars that accelerate as fast as the Tesla stop from 60 in under 100 feet.
A car that out accelerates a corvette, but stops like a pickup is not the safest car in history.
Other 60 to 0 times:
Minivans:
2015 Kia Sedona: 118 ft
2015 Toyota Sienna: 121 ft
2014 Chrysler T&C: 126 ft
2015 Honda Odyssey: 126 ft
Sedans & Hatchbacks:
2014 Honda Civic: 118 ft
2012 Kia Rio: 119 ft
2013 Honda Accord: 117 ft
2014 Mazda 6: 121ft
2013 Toyota Camry: 120 ft
2014 BMW i3 eDrive: 108 ft
2015 Honda Fit: 127 ft
Pickups:
2013 Ford F-150: 132 ft
2013 GMC Sierra 1500: 137 ft
2013 Chevy Silverado: 138 ft
2013 Ram 1500: 142 ft
2013 Nissan Titan: 144 ft
2013 Toyota Tundra: 150 ft
Sports Cars:
2011 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Carbon: 93 ft
2008 Ferrari 430 Scuderia: 93 ft
2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Centennial: 94 ft
2012 Lexus LFA: 94 ft
2010 Porsche 911 GT3: 94 ft
2010 Ferrari 16m Scuderia Spyder: 96 ft
2009 Audi R8 5.2: 96 ft
2008 Audi R8: 96 ft
2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 97 ft
2008 Dodge Viper ACR: 97 ft
2003 Dodge Viper SRT10: 97 ft
2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS: 98 ft
2010 Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SV: 98 ft
2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 98 ft
2008 Porsche 911 GT2: 98 ft
2011 Nissan GT-R: 99 ft
2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1: 99 ft
2010 Ferrari 458 Italia: 99 ft
2010 Porsche 911 Turbo: 99 ft
2009 Porsche Boxster S: 99 ft
2007 Porsche 911 GT3: 99 ft
sorry, I was wrong the Tesla the 60 to 0 is 121 feet, (174feet was from 70 for the P85). So it does stop better than a pickup, but not as good as a Kia.
Seriously, it amazes me how many trolls here are here to go against anything Musk owns.
The fact is, that with our tesla, we charge at home for local driving, and when going up into the mountains, THEN we use the SC..
This is what was meant to be. And truthfully, most ppl do not travel more than 1000 miles / year in which they need the SCs.
Finally, if you believe that you are entitled, you can buy a used Tesla which is grandfathered in, OR, you can go to GM, Ford, BMW, Audi, etc and ask them for the free energy with their cars.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That would be the point of the crowdfunding campaign.
A proportion of the power from superchargers comes from the grid. That's not free. Nor is the ground the supercharger is built on free. Nor are the superchargers themselves free.
Covering costs in order that they can build yet more superchargers is not the same thing as making a profit.