Slashdot Mirror


US Finalizes Rules That Require Quiet Hyrbid and Electric Cars To Make Noise At Low Speeds (reuters.com)

In an effort to prevent injuries among pedestrians, the U.S. government has finalized rules that require quiet hybrid and electric vehicles to emit alert sounds when they are traveling at low speeds. Reuters reports: The rules, which were required by Congress, will require automakers like Tesla Motors Inc, Nissan Motor Co and Toyota Motor Corp to add the sounds to all vehicles by September 2019. The U.S. Transportation Department said it expects the rules would prevent 2,400 injuries a year by 2020 and require the addition of alert sounds to about 530,000 2020 model vehicles. The U.S. National Highway Transportation Department said the rules will cost the auto industry about $39 million annually because automakers will need to add an external waterproof speaker to comply. But the benefits of the reduced injuries are estimated at $250 million to $320 million annually. NHTSA estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian crash are 19 percent higher compared with a traditional gas-powered vehicle. About 125,000 pedestrians and bicyclists are injured annually. The rules will also help the blind and visually impaired. The rules apply to hybrid and electric cars, SUVs, trucks and buses weighing up to 10,000 pounds and seek to prevent crashes at intersections or when electric vehicles are backing up. At higher speeds, the alert is not required because other factors like tire and wind noise adequately warn pedestrians, NHTSA said.

50 of 361 comments (clear)

  1. Totally Unnecessary by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Funny

    In Trumpamerica, hybrids and electric cars will be replaced by God-fearing American coal burning cars!

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Totally Unnecessary by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not hybrids. Hyrbids. A derp-version of a hybrid.

      Finally a cra for us dyslexics!

    2. Re:Totally Unnecessary by Rei · · Score: 2

      Dyslexics of the world untie!

      --
      It's times like this I wish I had a friend named 'The Professor'.
    3. Re:Totally Unnecessary by hambone142 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hang a cow bell on the undercarriage.

      Problem solved.

    4. Re:Totally Unnecessary by zwarte+piet · · Score: 2

      Cop: Your speaker is out. Can't drive any further.

    5. Re: Totally Unnecessary by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 2

      If pedestrians would fucking look up from their phones once in a while and actually pay attention, this would be a non-issue.

      But since we can't fix stupid, we rely on tech to keep us safe :|

      The future is going to be magic level technology, wielded by complete idiots.

    6. Re:Totally Unnecessary by jodio · · Score: 2

      Did you hear about the agnostic dyslexic insomniac?

      He laid awake at night wondering if there is a dog.

    7. Re: Totally Unnecessary by Twanfox · · Score: 2

      Ya. That's right. It's totally them darn kids and their phones.

      I'm going on the assumption that you've been around an electric car before at low speeds to hear how quiet they are. I know I have. Frankly, all I heard was the quiet creaking of the tires as it moved over pebbles and a very faint whine of the electric motor(s). It would be entirely possible to miss those noises, in my opinion, face-in-smartphone not withstanding. And I say this as a person who is routinely very keenly aware of my surroundings.

      I do find it a sort of ironic amusement though. Make electric cars too quiet, needs a noisemaker. Meanwhile, in my office, I'd beg them to turn off the white noise generator for just a moment's peace.

    8. Re: Totally Unnecessary by Triklyn · · Score: 2

      first time I saw an electric rolling by, my first fucking thought was... holy fuck is that quiet.

      my second thought was... this will be a nightmare for the blind pedestrian.

  2. No beeping please by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hissing or fake engine noise.

    1. Re:No beeping please by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Informative

      For europansies: 19kRPM old F1 engine noise. You'll need a few thousand watts to get the volume right.

      For red blooded americans: Top fuel engine noise. You'll need a few hundred thousand watts to get the volume right.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:No beeping please by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hissing or fake engine noise.

      Actually, due to a failure to read the entire bill carefully... Congress has inadvertently required that, starting with the 2019 model year, electric cars traveling less than 10 miles per hour continually play "Smack My Bitch Up" at 113 dB.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:No beeping please by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I want my Tesla to sound like the '68 MGB-GT I had in college with the hole in the muffler. Let me tell you, that was a head-turner.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:No beeping please by hambone142 · · Score: 2

      How about a fart sound?

      That would get some attention.

    5. Re:No beeping please by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Unobtrusive white noise should be mandated.

      As a hearing impaired person will this require someone sitting on the hood of the car signing "Vroom" Vroom"?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re:No beeping please by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      I think it would be a lot funnier to play the sounds of screeching brakes whenever a pedestrian walks in front of your car.

      And I want the sound of Darth Vader's Tie Fighter when I'm moving, and laser fire for the horn. "I have you now!" Pew-pew!

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    7. Re: No beeping please by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      I don't get what the big problem is either.

      I was once startled by an electric car creeping up on me. I went "oh, oops, there's a car". That was all, no ambulance required, I didn't even need psychologic counseling.

      With hundreds of thousands of electric cars on the road today, just how many people have actually been injured by one because they didn't hear it? No "estimates" please, has anyone on this planet actually been hurt by one at low speed?

      If it's fast enough to hurt you, it's fast enough to be heard. If you can't hear it, it might startle you but that's it. No need to mandate noise in our quiet street. Maybe add a courtesy alert, like a polite version of the car horn, to warn pedestrians when they're in your way. That would be nice. But now that we can finally have quiet cars, it's total lunacy to mandate them to make noise.

      How about this better idea: why don't we mandate that all pedestrians wear a noise emitting gizmo around their neck so that drivers of electric cars can hear them?

    8. Re:No beeping please by jabuzz · · Score: 2

      For several reasons. Firstly using road noise as a means to determine whether it is safe to step out into the road is insanely dumb and will/does kill people already, as there are millions of journeys on roads that are already in effect silent. Here is a link to where a pedestrian step out into the road leading to the death of a cyclist.

      https://www.thecourier.co.uk/n...

      So in the first instance if you are using traffic noise as a proxy for determining whether it is safe to step out into the road your are a complete sociopath in my view and frankly if an EV runs you down serves you right.

      In the second instance there are serious health effects from noise and therefore deliberately increasing that for the benefit of a small minority for a use case as we have detailed above is unacceptable in the first place makes things doubly unacceptable. The social costs of traffic noise in EU22 are more than â40 billion per year with one in five Europeans is regularly exposed to sound levels at night that could significantly damage health. I am sure that there are similar costs to traffic noise in the USA as well. That is the idea that Europe is special in the case is absurd.

      In the third instance there are a number of cars with internal combustion engines that are quieter than EV's already and they don't have to produce noise, which makes a nonsense of the regulation anyway.

      In short artificial engine noise is utterly unacceptable in my view.

    9. Re:No beeping please by MouseR · · Score: 2

      The industry already spent lot of time developing these sounds. Nissan, Toyota and GM already have these systems and I'm willing to bet others do too.

      Not my video, but this is what my Gen2 Volt does at Pedestrian alert sound

    10. Re:No beeping please by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      How about the sounds of a team of horses clopping along?

      This reminds me of the law passed during the early days of automobiles, requiring that a man walk in front of a car with a red flag (by day) or lantern (by night), so the horses wouldn't be frightened....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:No beeping please by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yo Dawg! I heard you like Teslas, so we filled an MP3 player with Tesla's greatest hits, have its amp powered by a small Tesla coil, and connected that to a generator powered by the wheels of a Tesla Model S. So now you can drive your Tesla to drive the Tesla that drives the player that plays the Tesla with the driving beat!

    12. Re:No beeping please by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      If you've never been to a NHRA top fuel race, you don't know. It will shake the farts right out of you at 100 meters.

      IMHO you need some skinny Americans in your fart orchestra. You can't have a choir of all basses.

      Should have some queefers too. Just to round out the sound. Going to need a few of those too. Not much range each (in my experience).

      Damn it's early, posting silly things, half awake.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    13. Re: No beeping please by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      I'm taking the word of the experts that the danger is higher with electric cars because of their silence. I don't think they are asking for more noise than already exists from ICE cars, so you won't be disrupting the quiet on the street.

      I think its more of a meme that the electrics are so quiet. My old school ICE Jeep is so quiet you can barely hear it. the engine. I suppose if you ran about 2 gears too low you could get some noise. But anything below 2K rpm, it's darn near silent. Tire noise is the main and loudest component.

      The day may come when we all have to have sirens on our vehicles.

      And to think when I was a youngster, I got pulled over for making too much noise in my Mach 1. Now we may be pulled over for not making enough noise.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  3. external waterproof speakers by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    a la: General Lee (Dukes of Hazzard)

  4. Can it be the theme to Jaws? by ASDFnz · · Score: 5, Funny

    That will make those pedestrians get out of the way.

    1. Re:Can it be the theme to Jaws? by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      Really. The fucking election is done already. Can't we finally get a break from that shit?

  5. The Chevy Cylon [ Re:Totally Unnecessary] by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    electric cars will be replaced by God-fearing American coal burning cars!

    A.I. having religion? What could possibly wrong?

  6. In other news... by msauve · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...one of such persons, while any locomotive is in motion, shall precede such locomotive on foot by not less than sixty yards, and shall carry a red flag constantly displayed, and shall warn the riders and drivers of horses of the approach of such locomotives, and shall signal the driver thereof when it shall be necessary to stop, and shall assist horses, and carriages drawn by horses, passing the same

    Red Flag Laws

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:In other news... by michelcolman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's not a problem. By now we already have hundreds of thousands of electric cars on the road. How many people have actually been injured by one at low speed?

      Startled, yes, that can happen. Happened to me once, I admit. "Oops, there's a car, sorry!". End of story. When a car is traveling fast enough to hurt you, it's fast enough for you to hear it. Even the noise fans agree it's only a "problem" at low speed, but at those speeds there is no problem because the driver can stop on a dime.

      At low speed, the only kind of dangerous accidents that happen relatively regularly is parents backing over their toddlers in the driveway with gasoline cars. Obviously the engine noise didn't help in those cases, and neither will a speaker. Backup cameras are a much better solution there, and they are becoming standard on more and more cars.

      And what about Rolls Royces or high end Mercedeses with engines so quiet you don't hear them idling? Why do they get a pass? We're now arriving at the ridiculous situation where electric cars will be making more noise than gasoline powered cars. But maybe that was the idea all along. Can't have those electric cars taking jobs away from oil pumpers, can we? Next thing you know, they'll mandate a delay between the application of the accelerator pedal and the reaction of the motor. And maybe add hiccups during acceleration to mimick gear changes.

  7. earbuds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've found it best to assume everyone else on the road is deaf. This goes double for bicycles and triple for pedestrians.

    With the ubiquity of earbuds you just cannot expect that person you are coming up on to hear you. Add simulated engine noise won't change that unless we all end up with Harley noise levels. (and then we really will all be deaf)

    1. Re:earbuds? by dargaud · · Score: 2
      Yeah, this law is so retarded and it will keep the noise level up in our cities even though technology increases and could finally make cities quieter. Do people even notice how incredibly noisy cities are ?!? Put earbuds and music on at home, get out on the street and you can't hear your music at all unless you turn the volume up 3 or 4 notches.

      What they should do is lower the noise threshold on all new cars AND MOTORBIKES, and if makers can't match that, then so be it (just like new pollution levels), you don't make them anymore. Yeah, I moved to a home next to a road last year and I've grown to HATE motorbikes.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    2. Re:earbuds? by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      Then make the pedestrians wear a sound emitting device around their necks so we can hear them. After all, they are the cause of the problem.

      My wife used to have a Prius, and when she drove off early in the morning while I was still in bed with the window open, I could barely hear her leave. Finally we have quiet cars, and now the "think of the children" crowd wants to make them make noise and wake everyone up. More noise than some gasoline cars, by the way. All to avoid a few idiots being startled (not hurt, mind you, because the car isn't going fast enough to hurt you if you can't hear it) during the short transition period it would take for them to get used to quiet cars. We'll have noisy cars for decades to come, with no chance of them becoming quieter since the minimum decibel level is mandated.

      A sad day for people who like peace and quiet.

  8. Bullshit by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "The U.S. National Highway Transportation Department said the rules will cost the auto industry about $39 million annually because automakers will need to add an external waterproof speaker to comply."

    A $3 speaker and $1 of wiring per car will add up to $39 million? Too bad. Raise the cost of the car by $5 and stop whining.

    No one puts off buying a car because it costs $32,535 instead of $32,530.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Bullshit by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      GM will claim they have to raise the price by $4500.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course.
      $10 in parts per car.
      $2.5M NRE engineering costs.
      $50M management bickering over the sound.

    3. Re:Bullshit by Destined+Soul · · Score: 2

      "The U.S. National Highway Transportation Department said the rules will cost the auto industry about $39 million annually because automakers will need to add an external waterproof speaker to comply."

      A $3 speaker and $1 of wiring per car will add up to $39 million? Too bad. Raise the cost of the car by $5 and stop whining.

      No one puts off buying a car because it costs $32,535 instead of $32,530.

      If you assume they manufacture ~500k new hybrids per year, then their quote works out to $78 per hybrid. To me, I wouldn't be put off buying a car if it was $32,608 instead of $32,530.

      As for the speaker, if it's in the engine compartment it's probably rated for temperatures from -40 through 150F, if not more. Plus it's likely going to be exposed to a LOT of dirt/dust/water, while still needing to be heard. It also needs to probably make some non-trivial sound that is based on speed and shuts on/off appropriately. Maybe not $78, but definitely a lot more than $3 in my opinion.

  9. Trump is requesting an amendment by presidenteloco · · Score: 4, Funny

    that electic cars be forced to emit "realistic decibel-level revving Harley" sound.

    Trump says "Everyone knows that Harley riders rev their jackhammer-sounding engines not because they are assholes, but because of the safety factor it gives them on the dangerous streets."

    Congress is mulling the change, noting that the current sound required by the proposed legislation is a "liberal wailing and gnashing of teeth" sound.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re: Trump is requesting an amendment by cloudmaster · · Score: 2

      They tried, but ultimately failed.
      http://articles.latimes.com/20...

    2. Re:Trump is requesting an amendment by Major+Blud · · Score: 2

      About two years ago I was offered the chance to ride the Harley Livewire electric motorcycle (http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/h-d/en_US/home/motorcycles/project-livewire.html).

      I was part of a group of 6 other electric bikes that had to follow a regular ICE bike on a 5 mile trek around town. I was amazed at how quiet the thing is; dead silence at a stop light is a pretty weird feeling.

      On the way back to the dealership, the 7 of us went to pull into the parking lot. There was a group of two pedestrians that were standing on the sidewalk waiting to cross the street. The regular ICE bike pulled in first; I was next to pull in. Right after the ICE bike pulled in the two pedestrians started to cross, and nearly stepped out right in front of me. I knew they were going to do this so I had plenty of room to stop, but they were completely astonished when they saw me there; "we didn't hear you".

      I'm not a part of the whole "loud pipes save lives" crowd, but until all vehicles can move in dead silence, pedestrians beware!

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
  10. Motor whine by bmerlin · · Score: 2

    I can't be the only person who can already hear these things because of the whine that their motors put out at low speeds. It isn't loud, but neither is a relatively modern internal combustion powered passenger car at parking lot speed.

    1. Re:Motor whine by santiago · · Score: 2

      It takes a while to learn it. I bike regularly in a place with a lot of electric cars, and I realized that I few months ago, I had internalized their particular noise and could now sense they were in my blind spot. Until I retrained my brain to recognize them, though, I had been filtering them out because they were not what I had learned cars sound like for the last few decades.

    2. Re:Motor whine by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      I'm in favour of a courtesy horn for pedestrians, like a polite version of the regular horn. That's all you need. You're not going to kill anyone at 5 mph, there's no need for ubiquitous synthesized car sounds now that we can finally have quiet cars.

      I've heard lots of stories of people being startled by electric cars, in fact it happened to me once, but I have yet to hear of a single case of someone being injured because he didn't hear an electric car. And there are a couple of hundred thousand electric cars on the road already. If it really was such a problem, there would have been a few actual accidents by now.

      It's just a minor annoyance for the driver, not a safety hazard.

  11. Re:Ridiculous by freeze128 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "looking both ways" doesn't really help if you're blind.

  12. Toyota already has it by JanneM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At least Toyota already has this in their hybrid vehicles. And in Japan you have a toggle to temporarily turn it off (for when you arrive home late, for instance, and want to minimise noise). The "whine" you hear from a Prius or Aqua at low speed is actually the speaker; with it turned off they're almost completely silent.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  13. Other countries already have this by GreatDrok · · Score: 2

    My UK bought Nissan LEAF has a noise generator that operates at low speed. It creates a high pitched wine which alerts people that the car is near. Besides that, the A/C system fans also make a fair bit of noise. If I want to go into total stealth mode I can turn off the A/C and the noise generator and then creep around car parks startling the unwary. I generally just assume people can't hear even when driving my Mini so I don't think this is going to make a massive amount of difference other than for the blind who obviously use their hearing more so I can see the sense in this. Odd that it wasn't already required in the US.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
  14. Simple solution by frdmfghtr · · Score: 2

    Two words: wire cutters

    --
    Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    1. Re:Simple solution by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Two words: wire cutters

      You can be fairly certain that it's going to be illegal to disable this system, and that if it's not working you're going to get a fix-it ticket.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. Not concerned by sjbe · · Score: 2

    You can be fairly certain that it's going to be illegal to disable this system, and that if it's not working you're going to get a fix-it ticket.

    I've got the money and the points to burn. Bring it on. I'll worry about it when they start actually enforcing noise ordinances against Harley Davidson motorcycles which clearly exceed any reasonable or necessary noise level.

    1. Re:Not concerned by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I've got the money and the points to burn. Bring it on.

      A bigger problem is, what happens if some pedestrian leaps out from behind a bush onto your hood and it's revealed that you've disabled the system? Suddenly you have a whole new problem.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. My risk by sjbe · · Score: 2

    A bigger problem is, what happens if some pedestrian leaps out from behind a bush onto your hood and it's revealed that you've disabled the system?

    That's my problem isn't it? Yes I'd be taking a legal risk. I don't really think it is a a meaningful risk or that the likelihood of it becoming a problem is significant but I acknowledge that it is a potential risk.