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Trump To Scrap NASA Climate Research In Crackdown On 'Politicized Science' (theguardian.com)
dryriver quotes a report from The Guardian: Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by NASA as part of a crackdown on "politicized science," his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said. Nasa's Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century. This would mean the elimination of NASA's world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. [NASA's network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division's budget set to grow to $2 billion (PDF) next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8 billion in 2017.] Kevin Trenberth, senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, said as Nasa provides the scientific community with new instruments and techniques, the elimination of Earth sciences would be "a major setback if not devastating." "It could put us back into the 'dark ages' of almost the pre-satellite era," he said. "It would be extremely short sighted."
And quit reporting supposition as fact. Enough already!
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Shutting down NASA Earth Science moves it over to NOAA.
New California Aereonautics and Space Administration
Explore space. Let climate scientists pay for their own experiments and tools for monitoring.
Vlad Trumpula comes out of his coffin and with the brains of the living dead takes one completely ignorant step each time he opens his mouth. I am just so very convinced that the survival of Earth is less important than deep space research. We are not going into deep space anytime in the reasonably near future and if climate change kills us off or reduces humanity back to the stone age i am convinced that deep space theories will just be so very interesting to the Luddites in the caves.
All you fuckers who voted for Trump, remember that you voted for eliminating important research.
But we need to know how badly we are F'ed.
But the 12 NOAA climate-data "adjustments" in a row that have each cooled the past and warmed the present can't be considered "politicized science" since that could totally be legitimate compensations for random errors. You're totally likely to randomly select the same of six options 12 times in a row; this happens 100/6^12 = 0.000000046% if the time!
How to work an "elephant in the room" joke into the Subject:?
This article seems to belong in the anti-news category. News is supposed to be surprising or at least interesting. At this point I see no grounds for interest.
Will Trump survive to 2020, or will the cognitive dissonance of sometimes having to say rational things set his spray-tan on fire before that? Will he live long enough to dump Pence for Ivanka? If he makes it that far, he could abdicate the throne at any time and keep it in the Family, surely the richest and most powerful in America by that time.
I'm not trying to be funny anymore. Reality has exceeded the capacity of my imagination. Climate does not exist, as I sit here watching the earliest snowfall in more than 50 years. Climate change? There is no climate to change. It's all random ostriches and orange and pink striped elephants.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Fuck Trump, fraudulent fake ass daughter-fucker.
That's like saying research into the atom should've ended once John Dalton's theory was widely accepted by the scientific community.
Just remember Mr. Right Wing dumb ass, you're on the same planet as everyone else. Even if it is another universe.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Sidestepping the click-bait argument about the impact of the loss of this type of research... The benefits of this type of research being stripped out of NASA and perhaps being shuffled to NOAA might be a net positive for NASA in the long run. Why is NASA in the business of climate research at all? It is after all NASA (National Aeronautics Space Administration), not the NCRSSA (Nation Climate Research and Sometimes Space Administration).
Yes! Let's shuffle that extra $2 Billion into doing some real space exploration and leave the climate science to the people that studied meteorology and give money back to the guys that studied rocket science.
For a moment I had considered Trump to be leaning moderate, but I guess he's too Republican influenced to be moderate after all.
The laws of physics are not bound by political ideology.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Do you expect anyone to get in a serious scientific discussion with such hilarious math? Do you have ANY idea how anything actually works?
Come on, tell us the truth. Who's paying you for that tripe? You cannot possibly be so ignorant or crazy by accident.
Just my personal annotation that this branch should be regarded as "pointless and closed" and that the questions were rhetorical. No intention to feed the trolls and even less expectation of an honest answer to ANY question. You can't provide food for thought in such a case.aRe:Polit
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
doesn't give a shit about the environment. environmental controls affect his (and his buddies') profit making potential. he won't live long enough to see the ongoing effects of destroying the global environment even more, and his children are rich enough to not have to worry about it either.
I thought he wasn't a religious twat that was brainlessly against all "science".
You did it again murica, you done outdid yourself.
Creation theory in schools.
God
Damn
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
BREAKING NEWS: ONLY NASA IS ALLOWED TO USE DATA FROM NASA SATELLITES! NOBODY ELSE CAN HAVE THAT DATA! IS IS FORBIDDEN, AS DECREED BY PROPHECY!
Or maybe it's a complete load of horseshit, and maybe, just fucking maybe, our space agency should actually be concerned with going to space again.
Just remember Mr. Right Wing dumb ass, you're on the same planet as everyone else. Even if it is another universe.
He is what, around 70? To him climate change is fiction. He said as much before his latest flip flop half flip. He will be dead long before it matters to him and since everything about Trump world seems to revolve around him, I doubt he really cares.
If he had any decency he would apologize for all the crap he did to get elected and then beg the electors to end this nightmare. I'm sorry, but it just makes me sick to know that the person we elected to rule us is this lacking in fundamental ethics. Anyone who is willing to do _anything_ and to hell with truth, honesty, or any of the rest is someone we sure as hell should not have let win. Before someone says Clinton lies too, I suggest you look at the breath, scope, and repetition of Trump's. Clinton may have been uninspiring, but I'll take uninspiring over this.
I still remember the massive crowds that were chanting, ``Lock Her Up!''. They meant it, but he was clearly just using them and all the rest. Disgusting. It was obvious he was lying at the time, but the idiots just lapped it up. I think if I ever visit a foreign country I'll have to make up a story about which country I'm from. Some research on Canada can't be a bad idea.
That anthropogenic climate change is real and caused by humans is undisputed and has been undisputed (by the scientific establishment, crackpot conspiracy bloggers dont count) for decades. Thats not actually whats being researched. What is being researched is how bad it is, what sort of time line we are looking at, what mitigation strategies do we have, are those mitigating strategies we already have working, what are the current effects, and how do we respond to the growing deleuge of problems already starting to occur.
Its *suicidal* to defund the most important agency in the world covering it.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
"a major setback if not devastating." "It could put us back into the 'dark ages' of almost the pre-satellite era," he said. "It would be extremely short sighted."
If only there were other nation states that had scientists studying the field of Earth Science that could continue the work of NASA. But alas, only the US is capable producing scientists with that expertise. Oh well, we learned alot and maybe in the future we'll emerge from the coming Dark Age with a newfound motivation to learn again.
Yes, but where will climate change cause flooding, where will it cause draught, how much water can utilities, dams and shippers expect, how tall does this seawall need to be, and where will the best places be to build are all very important questions. Regardless of global warming being caused by man or not, better predictive models help humans plan.
basically, single church nuts, basically get nervous when lose a piece of their dicks. most of them are ultra gay.
The laws of physics are not bound by political ideology.
No they aren't, but fabricating spin on the limited amount of recorded meteorological history is.
Physics may say ice-core samples indicate x, but the money doesn't come unless it says Y.
Climate Research is very important in providing unbiased information for future laws && humanity.
If laws has not been created to solve the Global Climate issue then NASA's Climate Research is not complete even though data has been collected.
NASA is sitting on vast data collected from Global Climate Change. What type of laws will the politicians create based on the data?
You are a fucking idiot.
Congrats morons on picking a total shitforbrains to be your leader. Damned cult flunkies.
Us humans really are dumb creatures.
Take it back CIS scum
Don't tempt him to rewrite physics books. He appears to be willing and able, since ignorance is on his side.
I would say it's time to put the SPACE back into National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA). and give it to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. (NOAA).
Acronyms aside, we really *do* need to explore alternative residences to this planet. There's elements on this Earth that seems to think Humans aren't indigenous to Earth and *all* our influence should be removed. Fine, lets get ourselves onto Mars and work on cleaning up Earth.
But that won't happen unless we get off this rock first.
You can't argue space exploration needs more funding though and it has to come from somewhere. We will never set foot on another planet if their funding keeps getting cut. We have run out of new lands to conquer, they are all taken. Hurry up and get some planets colonised already.
Because the planet we are on isn't a part of space.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I've often wondered why any atmospheric work at NASA wasn't conducted by NOAA. I'm OK with NASA working specifically on aeronautics.
Secondly, the goal is to de-politicize the research so that dissenting viewpoints can be presented along with majority viewpoints.
This is the basis of the scientific method, not of trying for outcomes that are political.
Don't ever forget the story of Dr. Barry Warren who discovered the cure for most ulcers. Because Big Pharma stood to lose millions, his research was quashed. It wasn't until he gave himself an ulcer and cured it that the story got out.
Same goes for climate: let's focus on proper, scientific research and NOT on opinion and emotion. This way we can arrive at empirical evidence to support solutions to climate change. Don't ever forget, it was NIXON who created the EPA. Trump may surprise with his pragmatic approach... on the other hand, he may not! LOL
*** Don't be dull.***
Let the other countries handle the easy stuff. I hope all of the climate money goes to space exploration instead. Unpopular point of view for sure. Do it anyway.
I'm so tired of the SUV driving, Yacht sailing, power guzzling yuppy assholes making everything harder for the rest of us so they can have some point to bring up when somebody brings up climate change during their wine tasting.
Look to the stars! There is no stopping this train. The best we can do is slow it a bit.
THERE. ARE. TO. MANY. PEOPLE. Reality check- EXPONENTIAL GROWTH. This train aint gonna slow.
You call this damnation. I call it forward thinking. There are solutions at home, but we reject them out of hand. The only realistic answer is the stars. Dont be discouraged by man-kinds reach today, be optimistic for what we may achieve next year.
This is the best news to come out of T yet.
Explorers change your world.
Stellar explorers change your Galaxy.
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
that ignorant bigoted trailer park trash like you are anywhere near a majority.
If you have actual evidence of climatologists committing fraud with ice cores for money, then provide it.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The smart thing to do is close NASA down completely
for pointing out your shortcomings and then try to blame them for the damage causes by your little hissy fits?
but after that we can hamstring him with a Democratic congress (don't forget to vote in your primaries or you'll get Blue Dogs).
And barring a war he's a 1 term president with 8 years of democrats to follow. That'll stop the bleeding. If you want the damage undone then you'll need to give the Dems a super majority in the senate and probably some state legislatures.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
you don't have a clue what you are talking about so you cut and pasted something that you thought sounded cool.
This was modded troll? So sad.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Numpty muppets.
Don't tempt him to rewrite physics books. He appears to be willing and able, since ignorance is on his side.
Too late. No doubt his nominee for Department of Education will do it for him.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
How long this kind of nonsense is going to stay - often seems like 3rd Reich in the beginning... On the radio I even heard people shouting, after asked if they can pronounce the German word for "lying press" - where the press organs which were not in line with the upcoming movement, were constantly denounced - the crowd roared enthusiastically LÜGENPRESSE.. This may have been just a small rightest wing gathering, but Donald consistently labels anything not conforming to his "Universe" as lie again and again.
This is a simple idea and concept picked up easily by crowd minds.
Boah!
The fraud is (mostly) not coming from scientists. But politicians are politicians, and lie about everything all the time. Anything you've heard about climate change from a political group (any UN body, for example) is automatically a lie. Wait, I take that back - someone who lies 100% of the time is a reliable indicator of truth. Anything you've heard about climate change from a political group is no better than random guessing. And it's all about the money (because, again, politics).
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
They keep finding out how bad our models really are and how fast the acceleration is.
Knowing your house is on fire is one thing, but observing it burn ever faster and finding out the fire is dangerously close to the garage full of fuel and propane tanks isn't useless even if you knew it was on fire anyway and that was settled. More info on time = more alarm = more action = more lives saved (hopefully).
"the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century"
You got be kidding me, the Chinese government is planning to do that before 2050, and they actual have the funding to do so. That aside, the politics in US can barely sustain projects that span the length of one decade, making plan for 80 years is just outrageously impractical!
Uhh, actually have just discovered that climate change is caused by White people. So it should be called crackergenic climate change. Your term anthropogenic is discriminatory and racist. Blacks and Latinos didn't cause climate change. Just ask President Obama. The science is settled. You closed minded racist biggots need to STOP calling it anthropogenic global climate change. The new politically correct term is Crackergenic climate change.
Shheeshhh. You would think that we could finally lay the inherent endemic and systematic racism to the past.
Totally agree. The Trump administration is "poised" to eliminate climate science, quote from campaign advisers, and concerned scientists make up this article. Come back when you have something to report.
The advisor designated to oversea future planning related to NASA says, 'we're going to cut a $2+ billion NASA program that not coincidentally provides critical baseline data to climate scientists because politicians shouldn't meddle with client scientists.'
May I offer my professional opinion, as someone who runs a newspaper: That is something to report.
That's not just any old thing to report. That's something that you report in the World News section. Above the fold. With a 4 inch headline. And an entire editorial department asking the reporter, 'Really he said that? Because no sane person would say that. He's that fucking dense? Yeah? He did? Okay, fine. Zane, drop a hundred words from the second item. We're just going to print WTF fifty times below this article.'
Seriously, if you think this is a reasonable, unremarkable pronouncement from a member of the presidential transition team, you are not entirely sound in the head. I mean that in all sincerity. Get checked. Because you're not thinking rationally.
Hey, go for it!
In fact, why not eliminate the middle bits and just cut to the chase. In your next issue, just put:
"TRUMP IS INSANE"
As your lead story, front page, above the fold, with a 4 inch headline.
That's the way to get readership. Eyes on articles comes from shocking surprise in headlines causing disgust, indignation, or offence.
And you'll be just like all the other MSM newspapers. One of the club! In the big leagues now, I betcha!
Tell people what to think!
That's how you run a newspaper nowadays.
(Of course, the real story is that Earth science will become the purview of NOAA, freeing up NASA to do what it does best: explore space. NASA will get the satellites to space, but other departments will conduct Earth studies.)
You should also change their name from National Air and Space Administration to just National Space Administration.
NASA Earth Science does way more research than just to prove climate change is real. The purpose of NASA's Earth science program is to develop a scientific understanding of Earth's system and its response to natural or human-induced changes, and to improve prediction of climate, weather, and natural hazards, which is extremely important to the agricultural industry and disaster relief. Unless you want the earth turning into a dust ball similar to what was shown in Interstellar, defunding it will have dare consequences.
You are a fucking idiot of the lowest order. I hope you are a child because an adult thinking like you is a failure.
Um... touche'?
You do realize that most of what you posted is a lie, right? Of course you do. Lying is what you do.
The earth has been cooler for the entire period during which anything resembling human beings evolved. Antarctica wasn't in its current position when it was warmer than it is now. And, without human carbon releases the planet maintains a relatively temperate climate over long periods of time through the action of the carbonate-silicate cycle. Of course when you dig up half a billion years worth of stored organic carbon and burn in in a century, the carbonate-silicate cycle ain't gonna fix that.
And of course, continuing to release more CO2, that's your fault, not mine.
NASA is doing climate research because 4 decades of political leaders decided NASA should be doing climate research. If you are deluded enough to think Trump is just going to move things around to NOAA rather than eliminating inconvenient research, you deserve what you get. Good luck with that.
Support SETI@home
The answer to all of your questions will be found by simply paying attention to where the new Trump hotels, Trump golf courses, Trump casinos, and Trump universities appear during the next four years.
So simple.
Actually they have a significant amount of climatological data going back far beyond written history. Sure, it's not as detailed as the more recent recorded observations, and it's taken us a while to recover it, but it is there to be found and deciphered, which they've done.
By the way, meteorology is not climatology.
Yet we can't read a single article about climate change on Slashdot without a bunch of mouth breathers claiming that it is not true, or controversial for some reason or other.
Is it controversial or not? If it is, then we need to pour buckets of money into resolving the controversy via more science. If it is not, then it makes not sense for Trump to be committing wad's of tax payer money into trying to restart coal as a viable energy source.
I mean just think the Snapchat IPO is estimated at 25 billion, maybe Snapchat could take it over as a charity or something.
Has this been done yet? If not, why not?
Science that is 'settled' is usually proven to be wrong and the ones that decided there was nothing else to it were incompetent.
:)
Even gravity is looking at changes and possibly completely new theories to explain the many discrepancies, not to mention wedding it to quantum gravity.
Nothing in science is ever really settled as even the best and least seeming unchanging parts of it just fits the facts so perfectly we haven't found a crack to delve deeper yet. When those cracks are found and changes to, or even completely new rules are found, there's more than a few beers both in mourning for the loss of a cherished theory that has finally been torn down, as well as for the excitement of new discoveries to be made and new more perfect theories.
Something it seems a lot of people don't seem to understand is that science isn't perfect and it knows it, but it keeps striving to make itself better and more accurate with every turn.
NASA has flat out admitted that their climate studies have a huge margin of error. This cut is a good thing as it will refocus NASA on the things they should be doing.
This whole situation makes me happy to be 50 and have some health problems. Maybe, assuming things go really bad, I'll be able to get out of here honorably.
For educated people this is scary. At this point I cannot even try to explain the complexities of certain subjects to people. The anti-intellectualism runs so deep that just being an intellectual brands you as an outsider. This is not good for our society.
This is a dangerous time for smart folks. I could have easily ended up a climate scientist. Though in my case I chose systems engineering with radio as a hobby. Both rely on physics. Both require knowledge of real science.
The rhetoric I'm hearing could land some very competent and gifted scientists in some kind of detention. Defunding comes first- silencing comes second.
The American century has certainly closed.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
Happy New Year 2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Now sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
So, in other words there is no evidence of fraud in ice core measurements at all, and all that's left is rants about the IPCC
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Tyranny of the minority is a greater risk.
Good for Trump, because climate science = politics. Sorry, but it just has that stench about it.
Cite the margin of error and where it is seen as "huge", and more importantly where those margins invalidate the data. And no, a blog is not a citation.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/1968m...
Mission I: To Understand and Protect Our Home Planet
Mission II: To Explore the Universe and Search for Life
Mission III: To Inspire the Next Generation of Explorers
That was interesting.
NASA is doing climate research because 4 decades of political leaders decided NASA should be doing climate research.
NASA should have never existed. The country would have been better served if the military had been left in charge, with the private sector firms competing for the business. That's how spy planes were created and how Chuck Yeager got to Mach-1.
NASA is just burning money.
lucm, indeed.
I'm taking a wild guess that even though NASA's $2 billion funding for climate research will be cut it won't be matched by a $2 billion increase in NOAA.
Don't be disingenuous, we all know this is meant to prevent us from furthering the science that indicates man made climate change. I agree that going to space is exciting but unless Trump massively increases NASA's space budget this is simply trying to hide an inconvenient truth.
I was kinda keeping up until you lost your way and turned to appeal to emotion. If you had had a point, you should have stuck with it.
Now I'm inclined to just not believe anything you typed. Not just not believe, but actively disbelieve. And I'm motivated to not seek out facts, in part by replies to this and similar comments.
But mostly by what seems to be a buckshot approach to spread belief, not facts. Go ahead and attack me personally, I'm just relaying what people don't even know they are doing. I'm aware, and providing feedback that I'm under no obligation to even be conscious of. You're welcome.
I'm not worried. We can take care of ourselves.
First they would have to change their name from National Aeronautics and Space Administration to National Air and Space Administration before they can do what you ask.
Aeronautics - the science or practice of travel through the air.
Thanks for being the object of the spot the dumbshit special snowflake game.
"His name was James Damore."
Devil's advocate: Given that it's already been proven that climate change is real, why pour more funding into discovering more about what we already know? We need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. If Trump takes away NASA's climate research ability, it doesn't change that fact.
And it's all about the money (because, again, politics).
I find it curious that this line is parroted so much by people arguing not only that climate change doesn't exist, but that we should halt funding into all research on it. You do realize there are multiple orders of magnitude more money in the fossil fuel industries than is being pumped into the research, right?
I think you don't understand defence - aerospace was a critical industry and the US government fed bids to competing firms alternately purely to keep them alive for supplier diversity rather than on technical merits. NASA's role in creating the actual practice of spaceflight can't be overstated, nor their research.
You apparently didn't notice that Trump was elected by a minority of the voters, the Republicans in the House of Representatives were elected by a minority of the voters, and the Republicans in the Senate were elected by a minority of the voters.
It's not surprising. Authoritarians rarely have much regard for the will of the majority
Dude, the difference between the majority and the minority is about 1.4%. Can you please downshift a couple gears with your authoritarian minority bullshit? You make it sound like it's the apartheid or something.
Or even better. Why don't you move to a small state like New Hampshire or Wyoming, then you could tell us how you'd feel about having all the federal decisions made by California and New York people since they have millions more people.
lucm, indeed.
You do realize that most of what you posted is a lie, right? Of course you do. Lying is what you do.
You lost your argument right there. If you can't have civilized debate, go back to school and try out for debate club. Maybe then you'll understand that not everyone who conforms to you narrow-minded world views is trying to pull a fast one on you. What do I really even care about what you think anyway? I'm expressing my opinion on how our government spends our money.
But, lets pretend I do care, and I'm trying to convince you. Lets start:
Source: Geologic Temperature Record
The earth has been cooler for the entire period during which anything resembling human beings evolved.
No. Our branch of life flourished since just after the Cretaceous–Paleogene boundary (aka K-Pg Boundary). Thats when mammals developed into the variety they are today, and most of which was much more temperate than really recent temperatures (geologically speaking).
Antarctica wasn't in its current position when it was warmer than it is now.
Not as cold as it is now, which is ridiculously cold. From Wikipedia (again):
Africa separated from Antarctica in the Jurassic, around 160 Ma, followed by the Indian subcontinent in the early Cretaceous (about 125 Ma). By the end of the Cretaceous, about 66 Ma, Antarctica (then connected to Australia) still had a subtropical climate and flora, complete with a marsupial fauna.[52] In the Eocene epoch, about 40 Ma Australia-New Guinea separated from Antarctica, so that latitudinal currents could isolate Antarctica from Australia, and the first ice began to appear. During the Eocene–Oligocene extinction event about 34 million years ago, CO2 levels have been found to be about 760 ppm[53] and had been decreasing from earlier levels in the thousands of ppm.
And, without human carbon releases the planet maintains a relatively temperate climate over long periods of time through the action of the carbonate-silicate cycle.
Long being relative.
Of course when you dig up half a billion years worth of stored organic carbon and burn in in a century, the carbonate-silicate cycle ain't gonna fix that.
And of course, continuing to release more CO2, that's your fault, not mine.
How is that more my fault than yours? You live in the same culture as I do. You work on the same computers I do, have the environmental footprint that I do, and so on and so fourth (probably more so, since my work and home are solar powered, and my vehicle is electric). You eat the same food, which comes from the same farms, and drink water piped over the same infrastructure, powered by the same machines, built by the same machines. Don't get all holier than thou on me.
NASA is doing climate research because 4 decades of political leaders decided NASA should be doing climate research.
This is what I disagree with. Not that we are funding climate research, but that NASA should be focused, and we should have a vibrant and progressive space program. NASA is losing ground. We retired the Shuttles, we haven't done anything but LEO manned spaceflight since the 70's, and the number of humans to walk on another celestial body is decreasing, not increasing. All that is thanks to 40 years of mismanagement, lack of direction, and a terrible lack of focus.
If you are deluded enough to think Trump is just going to move things around to NOAA rather than eliminating inconvenient research, you deserve what you get.
I'm not deluded enough to think that, since it says so right there in TFS. I don't think that another 20 years of $2B research is going to solve anything, certainly not going t
Well of course science doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop. But, you can't just decide to chuck it and wander off in your own ignorance. And "settled" science is usually proven to be wrong?
That is a REALLY big statement. I can think of tons of settled science that hasn't changed for centuries. Sure, we may find corner cases in very large and very small places but, for human scale things, a lot of science is known and static.
First .. Should NOAA be running the studies, and be supported by satellites run by Nasa, Funded thru NOAA? Arguable.
Second .. Is climate change real, or does the President-Elect know more about worldwide weather fluctuation than all the scientists (ok 95% of them), the same way he knows more about war than generals?
Honestly, I am having trouble keeping all the truthiness our President-Elect pushes out. Can we agree that he said a lot of things to get him elected, What is your favorite contradiction?
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
Yeah, but they were elected by a majority of the white people. You need us more than we need you.
Hey, go for it!
In fact, why not eliminate the middle bits and just cut to the chase. In your next issue, just put:
"TRUMP IS INSANE"
Because he's not insane. He's a buffoon, and so pathologically needy that he will say virtually anything to anyone, but that's not news. We don't run a celebrity gossip site. And this particular story is about his advisor, not Trump himself. You see, we report actual news. Which was my original point.
What we do run is a newspaper in a part of the world that is already feeling the effects of climate change, with direct and tangible economic and social impacts. So when a top climate denier says that he intends to cut the legs out from under an integral part of the climate science community, and claims to be acting to stop political interference with climate science.... That gets a big headline. We're running it tomorrow.
And yes, editors do sometimes talk like that. In jest, but mostly because if you can't maintain your gallows humour, you won't be an editor for long.
Hey, go for it!
In fact, why not eliminate the middle bits and just cut to the chase. In your next issue, just put:
"TRUMP IS INSANE"
Because he's not insane. He's a buffoon, and so pathologically needy that he will say virtually anything to anyone, but that's not news. We don't run a celebrity gossip site. And this particular story is about his advisor, not Trump himself. You see, we report actual news. Which was my original point.
What we do run is a newspaper
...
Nope.
I don't know what you're running, but it most definitely isn't a newspaper.
Firstly, this is an advisor making suggestions to Trump, not Trump himself.
Secondly, the person making the suggestion is an outside advisor, not a member of the transition team.
Thirdly, the recommendation is to let NASA deal with space-going issues and have other parts of government do climate research. It's not advocating just dumping the research.
And finally, other members of the government have suggested this move in the past, including Ted Cruz.
(source)
Trump has not said or done anything on this yet, he's only vaguely and tangentially involved, and it's not even clear that the adviser has even made his case to Trump yet.
It took me all of 1 minute to dig down and find the actual story, and summarize it truthfully. I've done what any good editor should do, and what you didn't do. Report fairly and accurately.
And yet you want to put 4 inch headlines saying how insane he is. Oh, excuse me, that was in jest. You want to say he is a buffoon.
You think you're a newspaper, but you're one of the "fake news" problems we keep hearing about.
Let me be specific: You are in no way running an actual newspaper, you're simply a troll publication like National Enquirer.
(I expect you'll next be telling me "Bat Boy Lives!!!")
I think you don't understand defence - aerospace was a critical industry and the US government fed bids to competing firms alternately purely to keep them alive for supplier diversity rather than on technical merits. NASA's role in creating the actual practice of spaceflight can't be overstated, nor their research.
American Astronauts currently have to hitch a ride on a Russian spaceship designed in the 60s. I think that says it all.
lucm, indeed.
Why stop there? The government should never have existed. Bring on the road warrior psycho dystopia. Jesus fucking christ.
The laws of physics are not bound by political ideology.
This election taught us that to some extent we are in a post truth world where perception is more important than reality. Sure basing decisions on made up stuff is horrible, but economies continue to get more efficient, and have more leeway for stupidity than you might think.
Why it could take decades before that laws of physics catches up, maybe longer, so while the laws of physics and such will eventually catch up, it probably won't be till well after the current crop of politicians are dead.
No, that is due to decades old design mistakes being corrected after 2 of the 3 worst US space tragedies (both due to shuttle design defects). The lack of a replacement is the consequence of a changed objective and the moderate success in intentional development of commercial orbit jockeys like SpaceX for whom NASA acted as angel investor and primary customer.
We're all on the losing side, with Fuckface Von Clownstick as president.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
If lying were the reason, then Trump should have lost.
She lost because Trump told the masses what they wanted to believe.
Changing your political stance isn't lying. When you ignore political and legal statements, she didn't tell that many lies. Every fact-checking group found Trump to be more lie-filled than Clinton. He was more believable, but never told the truth.
Learn to love Alaska
Then Aeronautics was back when NASA did airplane research. Yes, it was mainly space, but not only.
Plus, if NASA changed its name to NSA, maybe it would finally get some funding.
Learn to love Alaska
To stop america from being great while china and other countries have fun with their perpetuum mobiles and laugh
Aeronautics could also be implied in researching how to re-enter the atmosphere, or alien atmospheres with technology like aerobraking, parachutes, and retro-rockets. It certainly isn't the study of Earth's atmosphere for reasons other than traveling through it.
Point: NASA should be focused on space, travel, and the study of the heavens. If you want to study the earth, see NOAA, or USGS. NASA needs its money for space.
I'm not being dis-ingenuous, I'm prioritizing. I think NASA should focus on space, and leave the earths climate to NOAA and the earths geology to USGS. I think NASA is so unfocused right now, we have to turn to a super-power we already beat in space to help us get our astronauts to a station we largely paid for. And the saddest part: thats the most exciting thing happening above our atmosphere for me to tell my children about.
How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history, liberal faggots!?
LOL!!!!
Your insightful and cogent argument have convinced me that your position is more correct than your opponents.
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
The more we understand about ourselves and the earth the faster we get to the planets and the stars.
I normally love order but if I can't have order then chaos is pretty awesome as well. Trump is the King of chaos, I have a feeling we're going to see some really spectacular chaos!
Why are you reading a tech site? You clearly don't have any interest in knowledge or facts.
I agree with you on this. Probably NASA and NOAA will discuss ways to transfer some things over.
Another thing also that is not said when discussing this issue: Regardless of any government policies or priorities - every person *can* choose to dramatically limit their carbon footprint if they so choose. For one thing, I recommend going vegan! It not only drastically reduces carbon footprint, it has an enormous range of other benefits both personal, social, environmental, and cultural.
How about zero predictive ability?
I'm not here to do your job for you. Google it and you will find.
you have needed that research since you voted in the bush clan.
Thanks for putting that libtard in his place. And in all reality, NASA under other administrations was much more focussed on space. Eg. the Kennedy cold war era. Womder how much cutbacks resulted from Obama care.
"I normally love order but if I can't have order then chaos is pretty awesome as well. Trump is the King of chaos, I have a feeling we're going to see some really spectacular chaos!"
And napalm in the morning.
The happiest Republican must be G.W. Bush, he will no longer be the worst president ever after this.
Good. The federal government is as bad or worse than large corporations, filled with divisions that decide it's their job to do what some other division is officially tasked to do. Climate research falls under NOAA, not NASA, which should get out of electric car research, Muslim outreach, greenhouse design and a bunch of other crap not related to its mission.
Another textbook libtard argument. "Wahhh. They only failed at that because they failed at the other one."
Yeah, genius because they failed.
Well said, but the libtards cant process all those facts. Why? They're actually fascists deep down and dismiss your argument at the outset.
However you want to flip it, you, the people, are responsible for this massive failure. The world will blame you, not Trump.
Each IPCCCP report actually admits it, if you are able to read beyond the summary.
It's about time we ditched that unprovable, worthless, crap-festival of a theory. It boggles the mind how many people buy that crap hook line and sinker. You don't need a science degree to prove it's BS. Ask yourself- what other 'scientific' field renders itself immune from any sort of criticism. People should have realized it was BS the moment they heard someone say 'consensus'.
Don't you fart a lot? All that methane can't be very good for the earth.
At last there's some budget left for Mars.
Now if we could talk Trump and the illustrious entourage he's accreting around himself to leave for Mars ASAP, we might have one problem less.
Climate change? I'm sure we'll cope with that.
Look, we're going to build a seawall, okay? A great wall. Terrific. And the sea... is going... to pay!
lucm be trollin'...
What does ANY of that have to do with warming caused by greenhouse gases?
I don't think that another 20 years of $2B research is going to solve anything
Most of NASA's expense isn't about 'research', it's about providing data for people to analyze.
We do need that data, believe it or not.
No sig today...
If they are getting rid of "politicized science" then we should be throwing out "intelligent design" as well.
Have you ever noticed how the conservatives throw insults and accusations at others, when the most apt fit is for themselves?
True, for suitably "occasionally" values of "usually".
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The minority Trump is going to consider when he decides things is a hell of a lot smaller than the half of the patheticly low number of people that bothered to turn up to vote. We are talking about an extreme edge of a political party here and not the voters.
That's why phrases like "authoritarian minority" come up - Trump is not choosing the finest people for a role from all of the USA but instead from a tiny bunch of cronies who will act for a tiny part of New York and tell the rest of the place to go to hell. It's "heck of a job Brownie" territory instead of Reagan and most of the rest choosing people by ability.
He's naming a guy who believes climate change to be in charge of the environment
He's naming a creationist to be in charge of education
He's naming a racist anti-gay to be in charge of interior
He's also designing a special uniform for his people.
Americans, what does it feel like to live in the early 1900s? Or maybe that's more like the 1800s?
Is this good enough for you?
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/2006_articles/IceCoreSprg97.pdf
Unfortunately, the acronym NSA is already taken by another agency.
I think you said one sentence that was true, and that was "No." You should have quit while you were ahead.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Retard!
Hopefully if it does get defunded NASA can just pass operational control of the climate satellites to ESA or the Chinese. But it'll still be America's loss.
"Nearly 2 billion" is not 40% of $19,3B
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
Yes, because when I want to learn about climate science, I don't turn to climatologsts, I turn to former TV weathermen funded by the Heartland Institute.
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
I strongly suspect that NASA is suddenly going to find need for a bunch of new, advanced "weather satellites" ;)
Anyway, as for this article: POTUS can't just "scrap" some random part of NASA. NASA's budget is determined by congress. He can threaten vetoes, but he has to work with congress on the budget.
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
I'm not being dis-ingenuous, I'm prioritizing. I think NASA should focus on space, and leave the earths climate to NOAA and the earths geology to USGS. I think NASA is so unfocused right now, we have to turn to a super-power we already beat in space to help us get our astronauts to a station we largely paid for. And the saddest part: thats the most exciting thing happening above our atmosphere for me to tell my children about.
Well, Mr. Trump, I'll remind you that both space exploration and climate change are political up the yin yang. They're both big things that people have on their minds but individual companies for the most part don't have the wherewithal to tackle.
If you want to make America great, may I suggest going the extra mile to get right to the bottom of the climate change question. Find out the definitive answer as to whether there will be climate change due to mankind's ways. Now that would be a big-spending stimulative effort sure to spin off a bunch of technological advances.
Using political clout to meddle in climate change research ironically is actually the epitome of politicized science, wouldn't you say? Instead, a demonstration of greatness would be to use the immense scientific know how to come to an elegant answer. Surely in this age of technological and science there is a solution right around the corner. If there is any political crackdown to be made, it would be find out what's taking so long to get the information that fully convinces the public one way or the other.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
I didn't know that Richard Spencer posted on Slashdot. "HAIL TRUMP!", right?
Falling empires are fun to watch.
Wait... you have a way to travel through space WITHOUT travelling through air first ?
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Last I checked earth was a planet, in space, it's also the one that is easiest to study - and this is kind of important because the stuff we learn from studying it helps us understand other planets too.
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Of course when you dig up half a billion years worth of stored organic carbon and burn in in a century, the carbonate-silicate cycle ain't gonna fix that.
It quite probably will fix it - though of course it will take half a billion years, give or take a few orders of magnitude. It will probably not fix it in time for the human species.
Planet one: "I'm not feeling very well. I think I'm infected with humans!"
Planet two: "Don't worry - that always passes."
Stephan
No need to guess - that's already happening. The chairman of the congressional science committee (a rabid anti-science denier from the red side of the aisle) has been hounding NOAA for ages trying to force them to stop publishing results that he doesn't like.
The republicans are getting sick and tired of scientists constantly reporting that the their bullshit climate science denial is... well bullshit. They don't want to stop spreading bullshit (there's lots of sweet campaign donations in the spreading of this particular bullshit) so instead... they are trying to silence the scientists.
It's quite ironic to hear them saying it's about ending "politicised science" ... considering they are politicians trying to interfere with science and force them to lie about the results with budget threats.
It's doubly ironic that the deniers claim the scientists only publish climate change papers to get grant money... considering that the push from congress has been consistently to take money AWAY from scientists who do that. If anything, it would be a LOT easier to get the republican congress to fund your research if you were a denier.
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Nah, I fart only into plastic bags which I carefully sequester in a spare room. There are thousands in there now. When the room is full - I'm planning to have them delivered to Trump Towers with a note "Open the bags if you REALLY don't believe in climate change".
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It may be that I'm not American, but I see nothing wrong with that. The pissing contest was in the 60s as well and while human flights always make for good national pride and propaganda I can't see what great strategic importance they have relative to the huge costs. I mean, in the 90s to early 00s it still felt nice with the space plane lookalike and the Mir station and building ISS but there isn't really anything new that can be accomplished and I wished the US just pull the plug on the manned flights and e.g. canceled the SLS or all manned-related aspects of the program. And if two countries that carry out manned flights used to be enough, well we still have two countries doing that. Hell, we only have one LHC at the CERN and make do with that. Somehow the countries decided to build just one LHC, and not one per big or wealthy country.
>Dude, the difference between the majority and the minority is about 1.4%. Can you please downshift a couple gears with your authoritarian minority bullshit? You make it sound like it's the apartheid or something.
That was the difference today. All current data suggests it will be about 6% in the next election and nearly 15% in the one after that. As horrifying as this outcome was - it was an extremely close-run thing, and it's the last time it will ever happen. By the next election it will already be mathematically impossible for any party to win without getting a majority of all non-white votes. We made the mistake this time around to think we were already there. We we're not. We were fucking close, but not quite there. We will be next time. Assuming there is a next time. The sad reality is that this may very well have been the very last election in the USA.
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And of course - flagrant self contradiction:
"The fraud is (mostly) not coming from scientists"
Anything you've heard about climate change from a political group (any UN body, for example) is automatically a lie.
These two sentences flat out contradict each other - because the primary UN body that says things about climate change is the IPCC which is just about entirely staffed by scientists.
Of course, it all hinges on his attempt at deceptively claiming the IPCC is actually a political body.
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I notice he has not replied. How odd. You would think NASA making such a statement would be big news. There'd be a press release and such - he'd be able to link us to at least one newspaper report, or a scientific paper that stated what the margin is and at least some sort of credible assesment that this margin is "huge" (as opposed to his own subjective interpretation of a number he didn't [want to] understand) and sure.
And surely if it invalidated any of their results - then there WOULD be studies showing this. The oil industry is spending hundreds of millions on anti-climate-change propaganda, they would surely be able to offer a few million in a nice grant to any scientist who could do so. I mean - the deniers always tell us scientists publish climate change articles to get money... if they are so greedy, how come the oil companies can't seem to buy any that will write a decent paper and reveal the 'truth' ?
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Is this good enough for you?
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/2006_articles/IceCoreSprg97.pdf
Yes, a paper by Zbigniew Jaworowski, the Polish scientist who says that we are entering a new Ice Age, and that the science behind getting rid of leaded petrol is a fraudulent myth. But let's not get bogged down on the author's reputation... let's look at the paper itself and judge its objectivity. First line... "When climate science was not driven by ideology...". Oh dear.
You mean, that when she is lying and a known killer (assacinations of her political opponents), then Trump is still bigger lyiar than her?
I wouldn't worry. The Chinese may be a one party state, but they don't allow the stupid peasants to elect the leader. In many respects they already have the moral high ground over the USA. It would not be surprising if they replaced NASA and used the information to their own advantage. Just wait and see, this is going to be the century of China now that the USA has failed with the election of a member of the 1%.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
It's a fact, climate change is made up.
Climate always changes.
Change is good.
We all know this for sure because there are no solutions, only taxes.
From NACA's duct to NASA's invention of the hockey stick. One is useful for channeling airflow the other is useful for the channeling of money.
Passionately Indifferent
But I think i just fell in love with 'ol Johnny Trump.
And your excuse for why they failed to convert between English and metric, and crashed a probe into Mars? Or installed the explosive boots backwards in the re entry system for their cosmic dust collector probe, and crashed it into earth?
Then how can our actions be outside of nature? If our actions are not outside of nature, then isn't "human caused climate change" just nature taking its course?
Ah, yes, the black supremacist movement rears its head. Curious that these days, the kkk goes around holding parades in parks in silly robes and get jeered at, while black lives matter throw Molotov cocktails, burn cars in front of people's houses, smash Windows and loot businesses, assassinate cops, and Lynch white people. And yet people talk about "white" supremacists. Yeah. Right.
Before NASA was called NASA it was called NACA, the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, and it did fundamental research into aerodynamics from 1915 onwards. Chuck Yeager's X-1 was a NACA research program.
How do you spot a Canadian backpacker in Europe ? They have a small maple leaf flag on their backpack.
How do you spot an American backpacker in Europe ? They have an ENORMOUS maple leaf flag on their backpack.
I'm glad you had the opportunity to use the expression "road warrior psycho dystopia", unfortunately it doesn't make sense in the context of this thread.
I'm not saying there should be no government or no government agencies, I'm saying the military (which is part of the government) is better suited for the kind of work NASA is failing at.
lucm, indeed.
Trump is not choosing the finest people for a role from all of the USA but instead from a tiny bunch of cronies
First, that's what all presidents do. Why do you think Wall Street people ended up in charge of treasury.
Second, Trump is a bit different because he has very, very few "cronies". With the exception of Thiel he was basically alone during his campaign. He owes nothing to no one. I can't tell at the moment if it's a good or bad thing, but it's new, that's for sure.
lucm, indeed.
The sad reality is that this may very well have been the very last election in the USA.
Are you for real? You lose one election and all of a sudden democracy is dead?
From what I see, we actually dodged a bullet because Clinton supporters are apparently a bunch of fanatics like you.
lucm, indeed.
Instead of making wild accusations, why don't you explain exactly what's wrong with Trump's nominee for Education? The only thing she's truly famous for is her stance on right-to-choose and vouchers.
See, it takes more than "it's a Trump nominee" to label someone an incompetent. We're seeing the same pattern as during the election; there's nothing to support arguments, it's always just Trump=bad.
If you disagree with this nomination, explain why.
lucm, indeed.
Hillary did too, only difference, the masses didn't believe her.
Imagine the space program we could have.
Well it was fun while it lasted Humans. Good luck with your Trump and uh... hehe... yeah.
Cite the margin of error
Sensitivity of mean global temperature to a doubling of CO2 is unknown to a factor of three according to the IPCC, the estimate ranges from 1.5 C to 4.5 C.
REPUBTARD! Coined you a new one.
Repubtard! Gotcha.
We're fanatics ? Because we fear that a fascist may act like a fascist and create a dictatorship - or start a nuclear war, both of which would prevent another election from happening.
How are WE the fanatics ? We're not suggesting it SHOULD be the last election - we're trying to fight to make sure it WON'T be.
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The disbelieving lobbyists and the action of Trump is political anti-science.
Repubtard! Lyiar!
lets get ourselves onto Mars and work on cleaning up Earth
Yes, fortunately it said on this morning's news that we've solved the problems of Mars having no breathable atmosphere, magnetic field or (available) water and only 1/3 the gravity.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Instead of making wild accusations, why don't you explain exactly what's wrong with Trump's nominee for Education? The only thing she's truly famous for is her stance on right-to-choose and vouchers.
She's not famous for anything, IMHO.
See, it takes more than "it's a Trump nominee" to label someone an incompetent. We're seeing the same pattern as during the election; there's nothing to support arguments, it's always just Trump=bad.
If you disagree with this nomination, explain why.
What we're seeing is you not seeing any of the arguments actually presented against Devos. Ever.
Ever.
Ever.
Ever.
Sorry, but when considering picks for running the Department of Education, I'd put her on the typical right-wing DESTROY PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY HATE GOD committee.
Also, he lives at the top of a big tower.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
No. The military is only good at wasting money and blowing things up, and has no interest in the kinds of research NASA does. You really want those idiots in charge of the F35 in charge of developing economical space travel?
Probably not as much as beef cattle.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
In Britain, "trump" is a euphemism for "fart", so Trump Tower is definitely the right place.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Black Lives Matter and the KKK are two completely different things.
OK, what percentage of "climate change" (a nebulous term if there ever was one) is *anthropogenic*? How do you measure it? How much of your own money are you willing to spend to "combat" it? I expect you're willing to volunteer unlimited amounts of other peoples' money.
The answer is... EVERYWHERE! Therefore, we must spend ALL THE MONEY!
Where is the missing heat? Have you found it yet? It's a travesty that it can't be found.
Your comments are no more constructive than his. But really, at the end of the day, sometimes the only rebuttal to stupidity is a solid, "You're a fucking idiot." And move on. There's no point in arguing with morons, you'll never convince them they're wrong because every moron thinks he's a genius. Actual smart people can detect when they're wrong and adjust accordingly.
'Known'? ... 'Known'?!?
Hell OJ Simpson isn't even a 'known' killer.
You have a highly distorted interpretation of 'facts'. As in more than just "Oh, everybody knows it, we don't need to prove it."
Maybe because there might be other factors at play besides just greenhouse gases? Even if it was just greenhouse gases we still need to figure out which ones, how much, where, etc..
It obviously is not undisputed. Plenty of people dispute it. There is no "scientific establishment". If some PhD in bioscience or materials or electrodynamics claims AGW is true their opinion is not better than a dog walker or barista or a business executive. They haven't seen the data. they haven't analyzed it. Heck probably they haven't even read the scientific papers, many of which are based on bad research, no research, or even site newspaper stories and agenda driven NGO reports put together by politicians
Its all about data and models. The data, when it has actually been released, instead of destroyed, simply does not support AGW. The models can not predict actual climate conditions reliably. They only work if you go back and see what past climate was and tweak them to match.
But hey we can "hide the decline" and explain why the temperature, which is actually only going up due to the continued end of the most recent ice age, is actually a giant crisis which will allow government intrusion into all areas of society and make a bundle on the side.
If facts don't matter, why spend money for them?
Are you for real? You lose one election and all of a sudden democracy is dead?
From what I see, we actually dodged a bullet because Clinton supporters are apparently a bunch of fanatics like you.
Are you one of the people who believed in the incessant reports of FEMA camps and government take-overs under Obama, or did you denounce them for some silly and disturbing fantasies? Did you ever suggest that Trump avoid his tendency to intemperate remarks? Perhaps you've condemned some of the viciousness of Trump supporters?
No, wait, wait, I bet you deny they exist, huh?
And then you wonder why the other side is reacting the way they are.
It's baffling to you, you can't see the log in your own eye.
By the time Trump is done, might as well name it the National Space Museum. It's not going to be doing anything except dusting off it's relics of the past under this clown's administration.
...and as a moron, he will likely do moronic things.
I don't think that the article is great journalism, but warning people about possible dangers is a valid function of the media.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Actually, the evidence indicates that more of the masses believed her (1.7m+) but still lost because America is strange...
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Dude, chill out. This "it may be the last election" thing is hyperbolic and silly. There's no reason (yet) to believe that Trump would do anything to end elections, and claiming there is now looks a lot like crying wolf. If you think it's going to happen, fine, be vigilant, but wait for evidence before you start screaming about it.
As a refresher, some people were claiming the exact same thing about G. W. Bush, when he was in power and clearly he didn't cancel the 2008 elections, now did he?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I strongly suspect that NASA is suddenly going to find need for a bunch of new, advanced "weather satellites" ;)
Anyway, as for this article: POTUS can't just "scrap" some random part of NASA. NASA's budget is determined by congress. He can threaten vetoes, but he has to work with congress on the budget.
It's almost as if you believe that Donald understands how government works.
No sig today...
Indeed, as a former mayor of Toronto, Mel Lastman, said about the crack-smoking Mayor, Rob Ford:
There's a high probability that when Trump is done, Bush will be able to show his face in public again...
Fanatically anti-fanatical
And you are a humorless scold of the lowest order. Untwist your panties a bit and maybe you'll loosen up.
Grab them by the pussy!
EVERY OTHER PERSON WHO HAS EVER COME TO POWER SAYING THE THINGS HE SAID ENDED ELECTIONS.
Every. Single. One. Ever.
But Sure... after copying them every step of the way until now, there is no reason to suspect he will copy them further.
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This will create an international outcry, and the predictable Trump answer will be: You want to keep it, you'll have to pay for it.
While this is perfectly true, it's important to note that the space exploration developed the way it did because the government chose to focus on NASA. There were other ways back then that could have been chosen (especially if there had been no "space race" with the Russians) and things would have turned out differently. Promising project like Boing X-20 Dyna-Soar were cancelled to channel money into NASA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-20_Dyna-Soar ) for example.
Would the results have been better? Possibly not in the short term. Things like the moon landing probably would not have happened without rockets, but things like commercial space flight for the masses might have. So, who knows...
Sure but the science is "settled" on those things so I'm sure that Mars will be fine to live on. /s
Idiot
Build a spaceship on the moon or in the orbit.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Agreed, at the moment the KKK is irrelevant, while Black Lives Matter is an active racial superiority group who tries to intimidate another race through violence.
They'd be authoritarians.
Conservatives would be fascists.
Don't insult folks if you're too stupid to know what you're talking about.
How do you get your tinfoil hat to stay on so tight?
When NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Research) gets de-funded, then I'll worry. I would prefer NASA to concentrate on it's mandate of getting our collective asses into space. There are enough other organizations that can launch satellites, that NASA not being allowed to launch for anything other then their main mandate is also a negligible issue.
At the time, the expected overlap between jets and rockets was larger. Though with the Space Shuttle, they did finally find something that went into space and used air.
Learn to love Alaska
they're mostly looking to stop wars and shore up the economy. They'll still be lots of giveaways to the 1%, but Americans are mostly OK with that. What you'd mostly see out of a Democratic majority is Single payer health care, a smidge more immigration (Repubs are still very pro-immigration because they want that sweet, sweet cheap and pre-trained labor), legal abortion and (maybe) legal pot.
Basically they're going to run a right of center country with little bits of progress here and there. Exactly what you woulda got if Hillary had been elected.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Pence is a Dominionist; so far as he's concerned, the Earth isn't going to last forever anyway, the End Times are nigh, so who cares about climate change anyway? It's probably just another Sign of the End Times to someone like that anyway. And since Trump is surrounding himself with people like Pence, that's the advice he's getting, whether he understands climate science or not; he'll make his supporters happy, even if it means a hundred years from now coastal areas are all covered in sea water, there's no polar icecaps anymore, and it's 68 degrees in Canada in the middle of December. All I can say is this: I didn't vote for that loudmouthed jackass, ***OR*** Clinton, it's not my fault, YOU people are the ones who are helping fuck everything up by not voting 3rd Party. My sole consolation is that I won't likely be alive to see the entire planet go to shit -- unless of course Trump fucks up Foreign Policy so bad that assholes end up slinging nukes at each other, in which case we'll ALL be dead one way or the other -- and I'll be shooting Trump supporters in the head until I drop.
He did reply, you just didn't like the answer because it would shatter your little bubble of lies that you have been brainwashed with.
You know you will need to travel through atmo to get in orbit first, right ?
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Not really. If the spaceship is built in the orbit, it will never see the atmosphere.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
All that deniers and pseudo-skeptics require is that there be an objection. The objection doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be rational, it can even be an outright lie, but the mere fact that there was an objection made furthers the notion of uncertainty, that the basic claims of the theory under attack are themselves being questioned.
I spent a number of years in my younger days debating Creationists, and I see the identical pattern of anti-scientists making absurd claims and even more absurd demands, moving the goal posts when those demands are met, invoking every possible fallacy, claiming conspiracies when all else fails, the whole drive being "I've read this objection, therefore the whole theory is false!"
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I voted for trump to deport all the damn mexicans. then someone told me the mexicans are leaving and sent me an article and it turns out they have been leaving for years. what the hell. now I want him to put the wall up so the mexicans cant leave anymore so they don't stop doing all the jobs I dont want to do. he said there will only be a fence. son of a bitch.
also he was supposed to be making my taxes cheaper. but he just announced taxes will be cheaper for people who make more than $5mil. son of a bitch!!! I dont make that much fuking money. what an asshole. lying asshole piece of shit. people said he was a lier, but i am smarter than them. but maybe i made one mistake this time.
fucking trump, you god damn lier. make my taxes lower you piece of crap.
Going to have to be a pretty high orbit to avoid all traces of atmosphere.
You also have the issue of launching materials into orbit, which likely involves atmospheric interactions.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
He might just know about the power of a "pen and a phone" which his predecessor has been fond of using.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Actually, ending elections would be a pretty good idea. I hope he does exactly that!
Trump has 4 years and a Republican congress to change immigration laws such that they favor NW Europeans. Don't count your chickens!
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
Hah ha! You lost the election!
Strange that we have certain rules which all parties knew about in advance?
Lemme guess, you probably also think it is strange that in say... Baseball or tennis, that the overall winner can have scored fewer points overall compared to the loser.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
BREAKING NEWS: ONLY NASA IS ALLOWED TO USE DATA FROM NASA SATELLITES! NOBODY ELSE CAN HAVE THAT DATA! IS IS FORBIDDEN, AS DECREED BY PROPHECY!
Or maybe it's a complete load of horseshit, and maybe, just fucking maybe, our space agency should actually be concerned with going to space again.
Institutional knowledge is a real thing. There is an advantage in having a lot of the same folks at the same place pushing together (creating synergies!).
Of course if it's closed down, then perhaps when people are spread to the four winds they'll help pollinate other organizations with some of the good things they're doing currently doing at NASA.
95% of polling experts: Trump will lose in a landslide
We're fanatics ? Because we fear that a fascist may act like a fascist and create a dictatorship - or start a nuclear war, both of which would prevent another election from happening.
Yes.
See, here's the thing with fanatics, villains and terrorists. They're always convinced they're on the "right" side. Nobody in his right mind is going to see himself as a fanatic.
But see, you lost your election and now you're talking about Trump creating a dictatorship. That's not a healthy, moderate behavior. That's severely disturbed and if you can't see it, that's probably because you've gone too far already. This has gone beyond getting your panties in a bunch, you're part of an extremely dangerous group hysteria that really, really need to calm down.
Print this fucking thread and read it again in a few months, you'll see how insane you sound.
lucm, indeed.
You really want those idiots in charge of the F35 in charge of developing economical space travel?
As opposed to the Skylab, space shuttle disasters and other failures? Yes.
lucm, indeed.
What we're seeing is you not seeing any of the arguments actually presented against Devos. Ever.
Ever.
Ever.
Ever.
Sorry, but when considering picks for running the Department of Education, I'd put her on the typical right-wing DESTROY PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY HATE GOD committee.
You really gonna post links to Mother Jones and nymag and use that as references? Did you miss the recent scare about fake news?
For instance, here's what's on the front page of nymag right now:
Ask Polly: How Do I Deal With My Trump-Voter Dad?
How do I mesh the man I loved and respected with the man who voted for Trump? How do I stay friends with people who voted Trump? Please help me. I’m really struggling with how to move forward.
http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/1...
Someone is asking how she can respect her father, knowing that he voted for Trump. What kind of person can get that far in their brainwash? That's the kind of question people would ask in Hitler Youth.
And here's the best part:
I tried talking calmly to my dad and just got a steady stream of Fox News bull$&@!
Someone is writing to NYMAG saying that they can no longer respect their father because he voted for Trump, and in the same breath they go and complain that he's the one spewing propaganda.
Really, wtf. One has to wonder how, as a society, we got to a point where the intolerance of the liberals has reached the point where they reject their own parents for voting Republican.
lucm, indeed.
It is in dispute you fucking retard. Why the fuck do you think Trump won. We are tired of the fucking liberals in this country. Die! Die! Die!
the president doesn't rule people you fucking twat!
You aren't wrong.
But, to play devils advocate, when exactly in Germany did it go from being "severely disturbed" to talk about Hitler creating a dictatorship... to it being a defacto reality?
Also, bear in mind, that once it is done, it's way too late to start warning people about it.
I personally, don't see Trump creating a dictator ship... ... but he's seems on the road to make a series of catastrophically ignorant decisions coupled with almost no shame or ethics with respect to maintaining any separation between his presidency and his business interests.
Actually, people like you turn to general surveys of "all scientists" and clobber the truth with huge numbers. While there are a range of opinions coming from climatologists, there is a huge mass of scientists in general who have a common belief about climate change. Citing said mass of scientists, no matter what discipline of science they specialize in, is essentially the same as citing professional football players, or licensed hair dressers.
Gaia theory is widely debunked as non-scientific.
You really gonna post links to Mother Jones and nymag and use that as references? Did you miss the recent scare about fake news?
My apologies, I must have messed up a link in there, I had three for you. I can't remember what site it was, but I'm sure you can find others, if you wanted. I don't think you do, as I don't see you expressing any particular comments about their coverage of Betsy Devos, but rather going into a diatribe over familial relationships as a distraction for some reason.
Not even challenging a single fact or claim, just waving your hands in the air. Denouncing those liberals. Again!
And here's the best part:
I tried talking calmly to my dad and just got a steady stream of Fox News bull$&@!
Someone is writing to NYMAG saying that they can no longer respect their father because he voted for Trump, and in the same breath they go and complain that he's the one spewing propaganda.
Really, wtf. One has to wonder how, as a society, we got to a point where the intolerance of the liberals has reached the point where they reject their own parents for voting Republican.
Oh my, the irony.
It's like you missed All in The Family and Wait Till Your Father Gets Home. You know, back in the seventies.
Or the dozens of Ann Landers and Dear Abby columns over politics. Or race. Or religion. Or hair cuts. Even overseas!
I mean, really, bad enough that you can't stick to the topic you claimed to want to discuss, but it's as if you think such conflicts are somehow a new development. When they've been TV fodder for decades.
Even the Simpsons have spoofed it. Three times.
You could at least show some appreciation for history. It doesn't take much effort to realize this sort of thing is old news.
the primary UN body that says things about climate change is the IPCC which is just about entirely staffed by scientists.
Of course, it all hinges on his attempt at deceptively claiming the IPCC is actually a political body.
And your argument hinges on your attempt at deceptively claiming these two things are mutually exclusive. People with science degrees are not magically immune to politics.
A lot more Hispanics voted for Trump than the DNC was expecting. Hispanics, and most immigrants in general are cultural conservatives. If and when they become a dominant part of the electorate, the Democratic party will change to better match their views, or become a minority party.
Let's spend NASA's budget on space stuff. Don't we have an EPA?
I think you mean Iraq war. One of the reasons your party created such a massive debt, and then cuts in science reaearch because we are out of money after tax cuts!
It'll nice to stop this silly Alt-Left nonsense and get back to some actual issues, like jobs and such.
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Dubya already has Obama to deflect from his reputation as an i competent President. By the end of his term, Obama has become an autocrat with a pen and a phone.
NASA has 1% of the military budget and is useful. Why give it to a useless money burning industry?
Have you checked the national debt curve since Obama took office? It went from a plane takeoff slope to a rocketship heading for the stars.
Also, bear in mind, that once it is done, it's way too late to start warning people about it.
It's not Trump and his followers that people need to worry about, it's the disgruntled liberals and their extreme anger and intolerance which is a path to dictatorship. Trump didn't send people to disrupt Clinton events, his followers didn't try to take companies hostage because of the political affiliation of one of their board members.
As for Trump catastrophically ignorant decisions: so far all the damage that can be truly attributed to him is some ruffled feathers and extravagant declarations during the campaign; if anything, he's already an asset to the country because of his stance with the TPP.
Obviously the liberals are now blowing a gasket over this and accusing him of all the evils, and yet here's what Wikipedia has to say:
In 2014, linguist and political activist Noam Chomsky warned that the TPP is "designed to carry forward the neoliberal project to maximise profit and domination, and to set the working people in the world in competition with one another so as to lower wages to increase insecurity." Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) argues that trade agreements like the TPP "have ended up devastating working families and enriching large corporations." Professor Robert Reich contends that the TPP is a "Trojan horse in a global race to the bottom."
Clinton would have never had the guts to pull the plug on this, she would have happily sold the country to foreign interests, just like she changed her stance on bankruptcy to please her Wall Street backers.
lucm, indeed.
You're the one who linked to a liberal "Dear Abby" website to defend your position about Devos. Don't come here crying about the fact that it's a completely ridiculous way to back an already biased position.
lucm, indeed.
I expect Trump to be a cross between Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon. A mix between narcissistic mania and abject apathy. It’s going to be a crazy show. LOL
The US Navy just had one of their ships stuck in the Panama canal. Tell me how the US military is so successful again? Before you answer consider it has been fighting wars in the middle East for over a decade with no end in sight.
Only recently.
Now it's a tiny collection of personal cronies instead of what you are thinking of which was people associated with a political party with numbers around six digits.
That's why it is a problem that he's stacking the deck with those few instead of looking outside his circle. If you only have a few people to choose from some batshit insane idiot with no experience at running anything becomes a contender, as you'll see if you look at some of the people mentioned in the press so far.
Heck of a job!
Yeah it does feel a bit like playing dodge ball in high school and the only people left to pick for your team are the rejects, the nutjobs and the wheelchair kids.
Can you imagine having to give Teabaggers a position in your administration, that must be fun.
lucm, indeed.
The entire school system is owned lock stock n barrel by the ultra left.
Maybe you've heard of the teacher's unions?
Teaching kids in school that they're all homosexual?
How about making white guilt a key part of the curriculum?
What country do you live in? It isn't the United States of America.
And then it only gets worse in college as seen clearly by the delicate puppy hugging crayon wielding play dough eating snowflakes at the university level who cry and go into spasms for merely -seeing- a "Trump 2016" chalk mark.
Sheesh!
You had a choice of a 1%er or a 1%er.
Did you vote for Jill? No? Then stfu.
You're the one who linked to a liberal "Dear Abby" website to defend your position about Devos. Don't come here crying about the fact that it's a completely ridiculous way to back an already biased position.
Yes, I already noticed you're not actually responding with any problems that you've identified with the actual content of the article.
But I already noted the problem in my initial reply to you.
What we're seeing is you not seeing any of the arguments actually presented against Devos. Ever. Ever. Ever.
I won't bother with more links, like I said, you won't see them. Ever. Ever. Ever.
Thank you for proving me right.
Breathtaking contempt for the people, admiration for ruthless authoritarians who opened fire at Tiananmen Square in 1989, and a conclusion that this gives them a moral high ground. Wow. Adolf Hitler, is that you? If not, take a long hard look at yourself and what you just said.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
So, will all climate research stop?
Don't other countries have agencies that do similar research?
If not, then why the hell are we expected to do/$pend it all??
What we're seeing is you not seeing any of the arguments actually presented against Devos. Ever. Ever. Ever.
What arguments? instead of linking random, irrelevant sites, explain those arguments yourself, in your own words.
Of course you won't because just like the whole Clinton campaign this is just more vague, baseless accusations that only surf on "trump=bad" with zero substance whatsoever. If you had had any real point to bring up you would already have done so instead of trying to paint me as the one who doesn't stay on topic. Your trolling is weak, pal.
lucm, indeed.
"Commercial Space Flight" without rockets? Using what? Pixie dust? Build a scramjet with 60s technology? Yeah, that woulda worked.
this is going to be the century of China now that the USA has failed with the election of a member of the 1%.
Hardly. The Chinese are heading for a massive economic collapse due to massive over investment in real estate, infrastructure, commodities and inefficient state owned industries. They are manipulating their currency, the local stock exchanges and their central bank is working hard to conceal the truth of all the bad loans on their books. The Chinese have built entire cities in the interior of their nation where almost nobody lives. They're called ghost cities, look it up. This cannot end well for the Chinese.
That's what I meant. To build in orbit you have to GET in orbit. That means going through atmosphere. Even if you build from materials in orbit - you would still need to get the pilot there.
I suppose you could conceivably build an unmanned craft entirely in orbit... but you would still need to get the construction tools into orbit and that, again, requires going through the atmosphere.
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Trump claimed that 'Mexico does not send us their best'. Forgetting his racist claims about the people who emigrate from Mexico to America - there is some truth to that part, America does mostly get Mexico's poor and struggling. Or to put it another way - they get exactly the people they invited ! The plaque on the statue of liberty reads: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!". Sounds like a pretty good description of the refugees and immigrants Trump is so opposed to. Which raises the point: if you seriously believe that Trump's approach to immigration is correct - then you should be petitioning to have the statue returned to France because America clearly neither deserves nor wants it anymore.
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One teabagger is a 44 year old lawyer with less then ten years work experience outside of Party politics yet Reince is considered fit to be White House Chief of Staff. There are probably a thousand better choices just on this site.
Quoting the GP:
"The fraud is (mostly) not coming from scientists. But politicians are politicians"
Clearly the person I was responding to was making that claim - and I was showing that in light of his OWN claim he is being deceptive and trying to pretend the IPCC is not filled with scientists - the very people he just called mostly honest.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
No, I don't need to petition to send the statue back to France. The statue was built in 1886. The plaque was presented by friends of Emma Lazarus in 1903. They have nothing to do with each other.
And since when do we legislate policy by hanging inspirational plaques on statues, anyway? What part of the constitution does that fall under?
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
When the international symbol of your country (which is odd since there are six statues of liberty and only one is in America) declares an belief system that half the country rejects- it clearly doesn't belong there.
By the way - good luck with Trump changing the demographic path through immigration reform - it has a near-zero chance of working. Firstly because it isn't immigration that is changing the demographics. Immigration with Mexico has been negative for years, if anything, the wall will ACCELERATE the pace of the demographic change by making it harder for people to go TO Mexico (who outnumber those coming from Mexico).
The things that ARE driving the demographic change is primarily different birth rates, which is directly correlated with income and education levels - Trump policies are likely to exacerbate those inequalities which would ALSO increase the rate of change if it does.
If Trump does any of the things he campaigned on - it would accelerate the demographic changes. A lot of the change for the next election is American born kids by the way, who weren't of voting age in this election but will be then. Trump may have gotten the most social conservative Hispanics but youth social conservatism is basically non-existent - and the Hispanic and black populations are getting younger (unlike their white counterparts) so the social conservative parts of those populations are shrinking.
Now in theory you could mean that by favoring white immigrants Trump could whiteify the country so much that it would change the picture. There are two problems though. Firstly - the very same super burocratic system that has caused so many imigrants to be undocumented will also harm his plan: no way he can get a significant number of white people AND get them to be eiligible to vote by 2020. Not unless he radically improves the greencard process - which would benefit the poor and people like Hispanics and Muslims as well - and far moreso than it would benefit whites. The second problem is trhat he won't be able to find whites who would vote for him. Where would he get them from ?
The GOP isn't a whites-only party, it's an AMERICAN whites only party.
Nowhere else in the world are white people uneducated and racist enough to vote for him. Even in France Marine Le Pen didn't become a serious contended in politics until she massively reduced the racism of the party (indeed firing anybody in the party who makes a racist comment as official policy). She had to go to the center - somethign Trump never did.
The whites of the rest of the planet are appalled by Trump, his only support came from pockets of white supremacists - but they are extremely rare outside the US. If he imports every white South African who longs for the days of appartheid he would make no dent in the numbers. Add every white supremacist in Europe, Australia and New Zeeland, hell import every person on the planet outside the USA who supported him and it's still not enough - there just wasn't any significant such group of people !
For once, American exceptionalism was right. You are the WORST country on earth in this regard, nowhere else is this bad anymore. For once, you really are exceptional - and it doesn't bode well for this plan.
Finally - this is all academic since Trump can't pass any of those laws and if he did the supreme court - no matter how stacked - WILL throw it out since it would be unconstitutional. The constitution clearly states that immigration laws cannot violate any other constitutional right. So sorry, you can't keep out Muslim refugees - that violates the first amendment. You can't favour white immigrants - that violates several amendments.
And the court, like it's counterparts around the world, has a long history of judging a law by it's effects -not just its words. If the law in PRACTISE discriminates on religion or race it is unconstitutional - even if neither is mentioned anywhere in it, you can't get around the constitution by writing a law that pretends to be about something else when that some
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The atmosphere extends into low earth orbit.
What missing heat? Global average temperatures have been increasing at a pretty steady state for 50 years. (There is no pause unless you plot a trend from the 1998 outlier which is not an appropriate statistical technique)
China is ramping up renewable technology research and is already the world leader in production, although the USA may eclipse that on a per capita basis. The USA has an opportunity, in the next decade, to capture a goodly market share of the sales of those technologies in the rest of the world, but I doubt the window of opportunity will be a long one.
Many countries are announcing intentions to massively scale back on coal (although I'm sceptical that it will be achieved in the timescales announced) so even if the USA is not collectively xnvin
Convinced by AGW, it's still a business opportunity and a way to scale up the technology in the USA, with benefits on cost. We're not just talking windmills but also power distribution, condition monitoring, smart grids, and even nuclear
A mere 97% of people who are actually active, publishing climatologists accept it.
You know, if I go to 30 doctors, and all but one tell me I have a serious disease, but the other one says "Meh, you're fine, take a few aspirin and you'll feel better", I always trust the latter one, don't you?
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
I hardly think that a few unproductive ghost cities are going to be worse than a country that spends 16 to 20% of its budget on unproductive military toys. No wonder your economy is so bad when you spend so much on gold plated toilet seats.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
You must be joking - have you taken a look at the platform that Trump just got elected on? more waterboarding, ban all Muslims, repatriate 13M Mexicans, go back to coal. The USA is as authoritarian as they come and doesn't even pretend to be otherwise these days now there is no inconvenient Soviet Union to compare themselves with. Also let me know how the pipeline protesters are getting on against the paramilitary police, I hear one of them just had her arm shot off. Is it not also a sign of an authoritarian state when the black minority keeps being randomly shot dead by the police. Frankly I find little to choose between the USA and China these days.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
So true.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
Can book burning be far behind?
Look, nobody forced you to make yourself look bad. You could have honestly responded. You chose not to do so. You made that decision.
You're just proving me right. Thank you, again.
Given that that's exactly the law we had prior to 1965's Hart-Celler act, it's certainly not unconstitutional! And foreigners not resident in the US don't have constitutional rights. For immigration, the law can discriminate any damn way we want it to.
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
Since the government is not supposed to sponsor any religion, it is appropriate to defund government support of the climate change religion. All religions have heretics, so the climate change religion can denounce Trump as a heretic as they have done with all those who do not believe in and support climate change.
News flash... they still do "airplane research"
>Given that that's exactly the law we had prior to 1965's Hart-Celler act,
In other words - "We've had an unconstitutional law before, we can do it again".
> And foreigners not resident in the US don't have constitutional rights
Doesn't matter. The constitution does not say 'their' constitutional rights, it JUST says 'any constitutional right' - in other words, if it's in the constitution it applies to people seeking to immigrate.
> For immigration, the law can discriminate any damn way we want it to.
You know... why the hell did the Founding Fathers qualify the permission for government to make immigration laws by adding "as long as it does not violate any constitutional right" if what you're saying is true ?
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I can't believe that we are going to have to go through this again. Didn't we learn anything from when George Bush was president?
It's not Trump and his followers that people need to worry about, it's the disgruntled liberals and their extreme anger and intolerance which is a path to dictatorship.
If a "disgruntled populace and extreme anger and intolerance" is a path to dictatorship. Then "Trump and his followers" represent that demographic to a tee.
I'm not saying that there isn't plenty of harmful extremism on the left too. Because we both know there is. But to pretend "Trump and his supporters" aren't disgruntled, aren't extremely angry, and aren't intolerant undermines any credibility you might have.
Clinton
This debate really has NOTHING to do with Clinton. Why even bring her up? We should be evaluating Trump on his own merit, his own words, and his own actions now.
But fine... if you want to talk about clinton... let's do that...
would have never had the guts to pull the plug on this
A treaty needs 2/3rds of the Senate before it can be ratified. If the TPP ever became law, blame the Senate. Slightly over half of it is republican. If 2/3rds of senate approve the TPP, the problem is not Hillary.
she would have happily sold the country to foreign interests
The US, as in most treaties it signs, would be the primary benefactor of the TPP. Not regular US citizens perhaps, but US "interests" nonetheless. Sold the country to domestic corporate interests. Sold the country to the domestic 1% interests would be more accurate if you want to be critical of what she would have done.
On the other hand Trump is the 1% of the 1%. And he doesn't have the shame or ethics to even comprehend a need to separate his business interests from his presidency. He said what he said to get elected. He might be well be willing to turf the TPP (to thunderous applause); but only because he thinks he can get himself a better deal.
just like she changed her stance on bankruptcy to please her Wall Street backers.
Indeed. Hillary was 'bought and paid for' by the so called elite 1%. Trump on the other hand IS the elite 1%. He's not beholden to corporate backers to serve their business interests...so he's free to do his own thing. But the only thing Trump has ever done is "serve himself". You might as well have elected "Goldman Sachs" as president; that's not beholden to corporate interests either... at least not to OTHER corporate interests.
If you say so, Professor Einstein.
Someone is asking how she can respect her father, knowing that he voted for Trump. What kind of person can get that far in their brainwash? That's the kind of question people would ask in Hitler Youth.
This is probably the dumbest thing I have read on here this week. You can't see how a daughter might have a hard time respecting her father after he votes for a known misogynist and sexual predator? It's "brainwashing" to condemn people who support that? If you honestly think Trump's behavior is acceptable or tolerable in any form it's you who has been brainwashed.
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
8 USC 1182(f)
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
and as a result I doubt they will do anything about climate change
it is not whether you agree with the research or not - it is whether you can handle the economic impact of the questionable cures.
Next 4 years will be [b]very interesting[/b]! Prepare truckloads of pop corn, and possibly a nuclear shelter with truckloads of canned beans, tomatos, and powdered milk and potatos. Don't forget the liquids of some kind, too, as the water will be too polluted.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
Nixon brought normalisation with China, thawing of relations with the USSR and the EPA, and expansion of the national park system, so not all bad.
You mean the measured amount of heat entering the planet is greater then then the amount leaving it and they have no idea where it is going?
My Transformation Website
Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
Interactive CYOA http://www.catprog.org/st
There are outlier models that span that range, but the majority of models are much more tightly clustered within it. There's a level of uncertainty, though, due to potential feedback mechanisms that may come into play if CO2 concentrations double and remain there, given that things such as loss of the Antarctic ice cap will take centuries.
If you look at the projections of global temperature made at the end of the 1990s relative to an emissions profile close to RCP 8.5 current temperatures are within the error margins. However, the current perturbation is relatively small and transient, so relatively close to a linear effect and easier to project. It's feedback creating non linearity at higher concentrations that are less well understood.
Just remember Mr. Right Wing dumb ass, you're on the same planet as everyone else. Even if it is another universe.
So, Trump (the Tangerine Buffooni bird) thinks that taking a political stance to end another political perspective is achieving clarity? We have not only elected a nitwit, but a blind one at that. Look at the political leaders who have eliminated perspectives that don't agree with theirs. They are called demagogues initially, but they become dictators. A dictator is someone that wants everybody to agree with everything that they say--whether there is any validity to it or not. Trump is a thin-skinned, humorless and petty man whose brain is AS SMALL AS HIS FINGERS.
In other words, every scientist that says something you don't like becomes a politician, so that it's okay to disregard what he said.
In other words . . .
What, were my actual words too inconvenient for you?
Kinda. You add many extraneous words to conceal the substance of your argument.
but the majority of models are much more tightly clustered within it
You're speaking of models not of reality. The reality is that they currently have huge error bars for the most important parameter in climate research today.
That's an interesting perspective given how succinct my argument actually was:
People with science degrees are not magically immune to politics.
Normally I would expect that to be a fairly uncontroversial proposition.
It is not. But then you're implying that said non-immunity matters specifically when discussing this one topic on which you disagree with them.
Oh.. and you think that somehow, magically, unlike every single other power the president has - THAT one is not subject to checks and balances ?
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See, the thing I like about Trump is he crystallizes the problem of Contemporary democracy. Here is a candidate who promised completely opposing things at different times during his election campaign and people still voted for him. It has never been more obvious that what people like me have been saying for so long that modern elections are just a popularity contest. No matter where you are in the world you should look at this guy and understand that your elections are being voted in by people just like the people who voted for Trump and your candidates are just like him.
This is the direction in which elections all over the world have been trending ever since I started paying attention to politics. This is just the most extreme example so far.
Whether you're on the right or the left you should be horrified at the at the self contradictory promises and the fact that people didn't seem to notice.
Not if the construction tools are built on the moon or an asteroid.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Then you need atmospheric flight to get there to build them. We are on earth. We cant go anywhere else without at least passing through atmo once.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
NASA has already "revised" the data several times already to fit their agenda. That's why every month this year is a record. If you believe every month this year is a record, I have a bridge in NYC to sell you. The George Washington Bridge. It's just $40,000. Comes complete with toll booths and personnel. You must pay in bitcoin, however. 30 days to finalize the transaction. (for the really stupid, this is not a real offer).
Don't be fooled. Answer is in the history books. We KNOW that Romans were growing grapes in England during their reign. Can't grow them now because it's too cold. We are in fact returning to how weather was over 1000 years ago. Nothing man has done. It's just a way for some people to part us with our money.
Look it up. It's a fact. Only the stupid continue to believe in the CO2 myth.
It's also strange that people seem to keep forgetting that the United States is actually 50 countries not 1. Kind of the like claiming Germany should be called Europe just because it is in the European Union.
That is why the popular vote means jack squat in the end.