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Apple Loses In Court, Owes $2 Million For Not Giving Workers Meal Breaks (cnn.com)
An anonymous reader writes:
Apple has been ordered to cut a $2 million check for denying some of its retail workers meal breaks. The lawsuit was first filed in 2011 by four Apple employees in San Diego. They alleged that the company failed to give them meal and rest breaks [as required by California law], and didn't pay them in a timely manner, among other complaints. In 2013, the case became a class action lawsuit that included California employees who had worked at Apple between 2007 and 2012, approximately 21,000 people...
The complaint says Apple's culture of secrecy keeps employees from talking about the company's poor working conditions. "If [employees] so much as discuss the various labor policies, they run the risk of being fired, sued or disciplined."
Apple changed their break policy in 2012, according to CNN, which reports that the second half of the case should conclude later this week. The employees that had been affected by Apple's original break policy could get as much as $95 each from Friday's settlement, according to CNN, "but it's likely some of the money will go toward attorney fees."
The complaint says Apple's culture of secrecy keeps employees from talking about the company's poor working conditions. "If [employees] so much as discuss the various labor policies, they run the risk of being fired, sued or disciplined."
Apple changed their break policy in 2012, according to CNN, which reports that the second half of the case should conclude later this week. The employees that had been affected by Apple's original break policy could get as much as $95 each from Friday's settlement, according to CNN, "but it's likely some of the money will go toward attorney fees."
A whole $95...(if they're lucky)
Use these coupons to upgrade your #1 meal from medium to large.
"As much as $95". LOL, justice has been served, supposedly, but it sure has a funny taste.
Breaks for workers have been with us for a hundred years, it to take courage to change that.
Let's see: with their market cap at about 620 BILLION dollars, 2 million is: a pinch of shit. They lose more than that annually in stolen office supplies.
Just look at the amazing Christmas gifts that Apple gave them:
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/...
How dare they complain about not being able to take a break or getting their pay on time? They obviously work for a company that has deep respect for them. /s
Fire Tim Cook.
source?
Uhh, it's called lunch. Been working since the 70's all over North America and have always had time to eat food during the day. If it was hot and I was working outside, there was both food and water breaks. I would think places that DON'T offer such things might be great for business but really sucky for workers...
Yes how dare they mandate meal breaks on glorious job creators just to make sure the ungrateful wretched can have the energy to do their jobs.
Not to worry though, with the coming wave of automation we won't have to worry about pesky humans anymore. Too bad there wont be anyone who can afford to buy the craptastic Apple stuff except for the independently wealthy.
So people having the right to eat and being paid in a timely manner is bad for business? Unfortunately to counter your point, California has the largest economy in the US, so these laws are obviously not bad for business.
... is a significant part of the reason why the rest of the US (and other country such as China) are overworked, overstressed, in bad general health and overweight.
(Most Europe also has meal brake. That doesn't only include our giant bankrupcy generator (Greece), but also countries like Germany, Switzerland, Scandinavia...)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I recently got a class action settlement from Wal-Mart for $3.66. I would have bought a gift card from the online website to use it elsewhere. Alas, Wal-Mart won't let use that balance for a gift card. Now I have buy something else that I don't need or want from Wal-Mart.
Even medieval peasants were allowed to have afternoon supper
Well, to counter - the law is fairly clear. Apple chose to transfer that money to lawyers. They could do like most everyone else and just, you know, follow the law. We've had it since before I worked - and I am getting up there now. My first job - at a Burger King franchise when I was 16 - in about 1983 was subject to this rule. Employees who worked more than 5.5 hours got a lunch and two short breaks. More than 3 hours one short break. The rules may have changed a bit since then, but they are still similar at least. It can't be that hard to comply since most businesses manage to do so.
The employees that had been affected by Apple's original break policy could get as much as $95 each from Friday's settlement, according to CNN, "but it's likely some of the money will go toward attorney fees."
Maybe we should start an "Open Lawyer" movement were a bunch of anonymous lawyers give away their work. If you use their services and win then you'll have to donate a proportional amount of your time to someone else (pay forward).
There are some miscellaneous aspects of it covering consecutive hours worked to make allowances for split shifts, but that's the jist of it.
A lot of people seem to think employers are out to squeeze every drop of life they can from their employees at the lowest wage possible. That might be true for some big companies or awful employers, but the vast majority of us (mostly small businesses) care about our employees. Having small details like break times laid down in law makes our lives easier too, since we don't have to stumble around in a legal grey area guessing what's acceptable and what's not. (That's the situation with illegal immigrants as workers. We're not supposed to hire illegal immigrants, but the government doesn't give us any tools to determine if someone is an illegal immigrant so that we can not-hire them. According to my lawyer, having acceptable copies of government-issued ID on file is enough. Except sometimes we get IDs which are fake, or worse, which might or might not be fake. You can get in trouble for hiring someone whose ID is obviously fake, and you can get in trouble for not-hiring someone whose ID is real. Which leaves you in a pickle when faced with an applicant whose ID looks like could be fake but you're not really sure.)
Have you been sued over this? If so, could you share with us the circumstances?
The employees that had been affected by Apple's original break policy could get as much as $20 each from Friday's settlement, according to reality, "but it's likely most of the money will go toward attorney fees."
FTFY
California does give a damn about its working population. The asymmetrical negotiating advantage of employers needs to be balanced with statutes protecting the worker class from large multinational corporations. Sorry, the free market doesn't work well when the balance of power is so heavily tilted towards these large players. I do agree that small businesses should be subject to less regulation than the large multinationals though.
How on earth can it be so little? Let's say you worked there 5 days a week for one year, and you were denied a 30 minute lunch break on every shift. That would be around 130 hours of your time... or $1300 per employee per year... how does that become $95? If the practices were in place for 5 years, that could be $7500 for a full time worker who was there the whole time.
Yes. Pretending like every trivial thing is a right -- and enforcing it by transferring money from productive enterprises to lawyers -- is bad for (productive) business.
They are rights because the elected representatives in the state passed laws. Don't like it? Pass other laws. That's how things work in a representative democracy.
And if the productive businesses don't like paying out, maybe they should read the laws once in awhile. Meal breaks--especially for non-exempt employees--isn't rocket science (it's nearly Let Me Google That For You territory).
Without lawyers extorting money from the landlord? How is that possible?
The nerve of those workers wanting to eat meals!
What will they demand next, bathroom breaks? Clean air? Properly grounded equipment?
Please, Mein Fuhrer Trump, put an end to this anti-capitialist craziness!
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Holly shit you are a nutjob. You think people are robots? People need food to function you moron.
Google employees always tell you where they work 30 seconds into meeting for the first time. Don't know if it's the same for Apple employees...
Which is why employers would have meal breaks for employees even without these rights and the lawyerly looting they enable.
And that's the exact reason they account for 1/6th of the total GDP of the USA I guess.
Are we that defeated that we have no recourse but to accept a paltry $95 check after being blatantly abused by a Corporation? Every week we see some $100,000,000+ "settlement" from a Fortune 500 Company after bringing in BILLIONS of illegal profits by defrauding it's costumers or committing grievous violations of environmental, finance and labor laws to skirt costs -- all while they threaten to leave the country unless we lower the record low taxes we already imposed that many have found ways not to pay.
When will we finally have enough of these flagrant abuses? When will we have enough of the rich capitalists abusing us with the clear and stated intent to take more wealth away from us for themselves while also depriving us of our basic rights? When will we get sick of struggling within a system that allows the wealthy to openly and blatantly violate the law and a government that refuses to protect the lower classes from the wealthy elite?
Or are we ok with this as long as we have shiny gadgets and a steady paycheck? Is that the trade you are willing to accept in return for our freedom?
Are you satisfied with that? I know I'm not and I don't accept that trade, why do you?
Which is why employers would have meal breaks for employees even without these rights and the lawyerly looting they enable.
Employers like Apple?
This is a big part of the reason why California is the worst state in the US to do business.
Heads up: Don't be surprised if you get visited by a few ghosts over the next couple of nights.
Well, then perhaps you're a moron, and didn't even read the summary, because they weren't giving them the breaks, resulting in this lawsuit.
I looked through a few myself. I didn't see a single one mention that providing breaks was a large, or any, part. In fact, one of them mentioned business were leaving for states such as Washington. Washington has breaks as well, so obviously that wasn't a large factor.
Yes. These lawsuits are about a few people missing lunch (or getting lunch a little late) a few times.
of course it will. The ONLY people that come out in these things are the attorneys.. on BOTH sides.
As they should, because they have the largest population of any state in the US. About 1 of 8 people in the US live in California.
A more interesting statistic would be Gross State Product GSP per capita in each state. In 2012, California's GSP ranked 17 among all states and in 2015 it still only ranked 10. In 2015, California's GSP per capita was only about 11% higher than the US GDP per capita.
Income in California is also very much distributed at the upper end -- from 2012 through 2014, 48% of the state income tax was paid by the top 1% of taxpayers.
As well, according to the Department of Labor, in November 2016 California had relatively high unemployment compared to other states -- 38 states had lower unemployment rates.
Overall, California's economy isn't particularly impressive.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
Someone should have told Scrooge that big payoffs to lawyers is a substitute for virtue.
I worked 8-12 hour shifts at Domino's before and its there policy not to give anyone any breaks at any time. I asked for a break and manager said I get breaks all the time while i am driving.
So what. Do you really think Apple cares about a measly $2 million fine? That's not even a slap on the wrist to them. They may be more careful about compliance since the next fine would be bigger, but they could simply shrug this off as part of the cost of doing business - a very minor part.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
"I do agree that small businesses should be subject to less regulation than the large multinationals though."
No, they shouldn't. As a small business owner myself, I have no problems with California regulations and I do give my employees lunch and breaks if they want too (Hell, some of them I have work from home now). The fact is, a lot of the big companies will follow most of California regulations to the letter because they don't have time to deal with all the liability if they don't. It's actually the damn small businesses that abuse the hell out of employees and don't follow the rules. As for costs, it's minuscule to follow for me because I actually know how to plan things for the long term and actually have procedures.
So, a good example of a small business is the building down from me, a paper converter. They don't follow any regulations, hire illegals to run their machines, abuse the hell out of their workers by overworking them over 12 hours a day (How do I know? They all come to my building looking for work telling me about this). So whenever I go to lunch with the owner, he bitches and moans about California laws everyday because he wants to pay his workers even less than minimum wage. Complains he has to pay overtime for his employees because he doesn't want to hire more people to deal with the overflow. Then he bitches and moans to me how he can't find any maintenance guy worth anything because he wants to pay them minimum wage and the guys he interviews laugh at him (Wants an engineer to work minimum wage or close to it). The guy has no permits, but plays the game with the city and OSHA like a flute. That is the small business you are talking about that you want to subject to less regulations. And this is actually very typical of every small business in California. Stop thinking that mom & pop shop is ethical, because this guy is a mom & pop shop, they're actually the worse.
And this isn't the only guy, I have a logistics company up the street from me doing the same thing, a screen printing business doing the same thing, and a company making spices doing the same thing.
And somehow I have no problem dealing with the regulations, but everyone else does! In my opinion, small businesses need to be subject to more regulations and scrutiny because they get away with so much, you wouldn't believe. If it was so bad in California, they would have moved out long ago.
...are filing a suit because they were offered meals made only with apples!!!
It doesn't matter what's on the books, does Washington ENFORCE meal breaks? Apparently California didn't, thus this lawsuit and somewhere a middle manager who made a nice bonus for several years for forward thinking.
It's like, every Wal-Mart employee knows they have paid time off. It's in their paperwork, it's the law in most areas. Yet they also "know" that if they take a minute of it they'll be told their services are no longer needed. They also better show up for those 4 hour "management meetings" off the clock where they do a suspicious amount of shelf stocking.
When Trump follows the law, he can start dictating to others.
Somehow I doubt that if your employer took away your meal breaks, you'd be so blase about turning to a lawyer to secure your rights.
You americans are slaves, indentured. You work 4 hours for free, and the no meal breaks? No wonder you are being replaced by more "efficient" robots. Worst off all noones hearth breaks knowing this, as you idiots defend corporate rights to run over people, because you retards think one day you might be owner of such corporation or something idiotic like that.
No one "took away" anyone's meal breaks.
Overall, California's economy isn't particularly impressive.
Except for, you know, being the 6th largest economy in the entire world, with it taking the rest of the entire US combined to be larger...
If you believe fictional stories about us, yes. Also we spend our nights huddled in our homes hiding from vampires.
yes, i think you understand the position. it's not logical at all.
Expecting humans to work 8-12hr shifts without meal/bathroom breaks is pretty harsh and also counterproductive to business.. That's how accidents happen and they cost more than the meal breaks do.
Honestly, I'm surprised that apple got away with this. I believe every state has such laws.
"invoke fear into the class members that if they so much as discuss the various labor policies, they run the risk of being fired, sued or disciplined."
Use of the phrase 'class member' is interesting as no typical employee would use such phrases. It sounds more like these people were told what to say. TFS only attributes it to 'store employees', but it reads like propaganda.
Expecting humans to work 8-12hr shifts without meal/bathroom breaks is pretty harsh and also counterproductive to business.. That's how accidents happen and they cost more than the meal breaks do.
Honestly, I'm surprised that apple got away with this. I believe every state has such laws.
"invoke fear into the class members that if they so much as discuss the various labor policies, they run the risk of being fired, sued or disciplined."
Use of the phrase 'class member' is interesting as no typical employee would use such phrases. It sounds more like these people were told what to say. TFS only attributes it to 'store employees', but it reads like propaganda.
I hope not. Dictators are bad. Freedom is good.
I was awarded a pretty good amount of money while working at a company based in Seattle for not being given breaks. I think they did a pretty good job of enforcement.
I don't have my dentures in.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
So Trump has a tater on his dick.
Now I get the tiny hands humour.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Yeah, sorry, I mistyped "beark"...
huh... "breka"....
no... "braek"...
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
You only read the last line in the gp, didn't you?
Then what in your estimable opinion did happen and can you back it up with... evidence?
But people who really need an doctor may just brake in a take the apple stuff it's win win you can get away with it and flip the apple stuff or go to jail / prison where the state must give you an doctor.
They bring their own snack food or hit the vending machine. Or they gorge themselves before or after work.
In addition to the junk food (snacks and industrial), there is direct effect due to the *fast eating* (insuline peak, blablabla....) disruption of daily rythm...
which can also contribute to the increased chronic stress (increased corticosteroids, etc.) which also has a bad long term effect on health.
TL;DR: the junk food itself isn't the only cause of obesity, the overstress is also a major one.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Beheadings were a common option.
you're stupid
In Oregon we have balanced rules that protect both sides, and the actual problem on the job with mean breaks is that employers will force you to take them.
When the rules are super-clear and well-enforced and can be changed by direct public vote, then there ends more obstinate workaholics than employers who don't give breaks.
Since employers and employees have different worst case scenarios, you can protect both at the same time without any conflict. Don't believe the cynics.
Only ones that make out in all these "class action" cases are the lawyers. And for companies, a lot of times it's legalized extortion.
-Alice, Unforgiven
-Dave
I find it real hard to believe a "few" people missing lunch a "few" times makes it's way to a 2 million judgement in a class action suit.
You forgot to add:
"Humbug!"
Settlement: -95.00
Copying fee: 25.00
Filing fee: 34.35
paralegal recovery: $85.00
attorney recovery; $450.00
Government recovery fee: $104.00
Balance Due immediately $505.35
Remit within 2 days.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Income in California is also very much distributed at the upper end -- from 2012 through 2014, 48% of the state income tax was paid by the top 1% of taxpayers.
People like you must think random babble is impressive. Here's a hint, not only do you fail to establish the actual level of income distribution, you neglected to consider the actual tax gradation levels.
As well, according to the Department of Labor, in November 2016 California had relatively high unemployment compared to other states -- 38 states had lower unemployment rates.
Oh goodness. Hey you left off the unemployment rates. Oh wait, wait, maybe it's because of the many people who come to California because they want to do so. Especially in Winter. And some because Nevada buys them bus tickets.
Overall I have been screwed over FAR more commonly from a small business than a large one. What I have found is that large businesses don't screw you over on small contracts since it is not worth the time to do it. It gets them more negative press and for no reason at all. I have also found that small businesses tend to be the most abusive and deceptive in what they want to do.
I once had a contract to build an electronic voting system for a professional ethics body and they wanted the ability to tamper with the election, They where PISSED when they found out the system notified everyone voting when they tried to temper with the system. I have just never seen a large business do that.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
so, no other state in the union has mandatory lunch breaks along with other breaks for hourly workers?
cause im pretty sure all of them do, course im pretty sure you are a moron as well
We have a lot of brainwashed, but the real influences are behind closed doors. I'm sure some idiots in the UK swallowed the noise about the snooper's charter (mostly those who believe in the terrorist boogeymen) but they're not the ones who pulled the strings. I pity their population, not mock it for "doing it to themselves".
>No wonder you are being replaced by more "efficient" robots.
Obviously your perk-blessed workers will evaporate even faster, as your corporates decide to take the plunge and buy machines that don't demand meal breaks.
More likely they were about "working lunches" where a meeting or such is scheduled for lunch time and employees are expected to eat while working.
http://www.mercurynews.com/201...
Are you going to provide any references or just expect everyone to take your word for it?
There's a skeeter on my peter, flick it off.
I didn't say there should be no regulation or enforcement of labor laws for small businesses, and existing California labor law, I beleive is not to onerous given there are even more employee-friendly laws in most other advanced democracies.
Larger corps screw the workers in more indirect methods which present less liability to them. Fissured workplaces (contingent/temporary workers with no benefits), using H-1B body shops, buying off legislators for favorable laws, and using the courts to overturn what voters have willed to name a few.
Did you even read the article you linked? It says right in it that Apple made it extremely hard to take a lunch break. They might not have taken them away per se, but they took them away by making it harder AND not paying the employees properly. Basically they did sneaky shit to try and maximize work and said fuck employee safety and health.
They broke a California law. Period.
That was funny : I'm laughing so loud, I'm going to berk a rib.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Blood-sucking immortal pedophiles that sparkle in sunlight rather than combust? You're damn right we're hiding from them.
Yes. It says lunches were late. And some complaining about scheduling difficulties. And some guys got a final paycheck a little late. Not exactly earth shattering.
I'm not going to read the article. I'mean going to assume what you said is true. And if it is than yeah, it's pretty earth shattering. Apple goes out of its way to not use chemicals most people don't know about isn't taking the time to ensure their employees get breaks? The local store managers up to Cook aught to pay that fine out of their own pockets.
You say and complain about all this, but apparently haven't bothered to drop a line to the authorities about the people breaking the law while you go to lunch with them.
Fancy that, trying to refute a post that has four citations with nothing more than opinion and a "fact" that isn't.
I feel bad for you if you think getting exactly the right number of minutes for lunch at exactly the right time is what life is about.
are class actions contingency or hpurly based. my personal injury case was 1/3 on contingency. i cant see attorneys going down easy on the multimillion dollar verdict potential of class actions. are there cost plus fee schedules?
Oh please.
They do, and most businesses (that I have worked for) actually insist you take breaks and lunch, as they wish to avoid paying lawyers for avoidable stuff. Perhaps Apple just has too many lawyers with not enough to do.
And you reported both of those businesses right? Right?
Unemployment rates are widely accepted as part of the measure of the strength of an economy. Of course, no single factor can generally be viewed in isolation.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
OK, even on Slashdot you need to read the post you're replying to!
"A lot of people live in California" is a different thing to claim than "California does well by the average guy". Do you get that?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Mostly because of the church! That's the key to understanding the middle ages: the church restrained the worst excesses of the aristocracy, and the aristocracy restrained the worst excesses of the church. When either became ascendant, things went to shit.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Every little thing Apple does destroys the little equity they have left. They are now rich, but they are riding on Jobs vision stripping what's left of his ideals (with all his pros and cons, he was quite remarkable).
Yeah... well... I'll share a different perspective. (California)
Break and meal rules are quite clear for non-exempt employees. What is much more grey is who really is exempt. The California Labor Commission takes the approach that everyone really should be non-exempt, unless they clearly fit in the exempted categories without any potential conflict.
I am an engineer (PE). We hire engineers with zero to 30+ years of experience, all with degrees, most with their EIT, and some with their PE. It is strange to consider someone with 30 years of experience (without PE) doing a higher level work as non-exempt, while someone with two years of experience (but passed their PE) could be exempt, doing lower level work. So, in our industry, it is customary to consider everyone as exempt that is not a draftsperson/CAD operator.
We got sued by an engineer who passed his PE three months after being fired for lunch and breaks... because we didn't have proof he took them. (He did take lunch, despite being ineligible for breaks.) We won, but that is the kind of crap you get to put up with as an employer.
Why can't they oay on time? Also judge ruled something tiny just as a way to say "pay attention" and patting it in the back.
unfinished: (adj.)
California is so huge you have to look at it piecewise, otherwise you're doing apples-and-oranges comparisons.
For example the San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland CSA is an economic behemoth that is likely the richest region of that size in the world. Yes, Qatar, Macau, Luxemburg and Lichtenstein would beat it for per capita GDP, but compared to the Bay Area those places have tiny populations.
Does it make sense to average a place like that with San Joaquin County, which has the highest percentage of people living below the poverty line in California? That's entirely a function of the industry that dominates the county: agriculture. Over 20% of the workers are immigrants, 3/4 of them fairly recent.
So it's like a card game in which California was dealt 58 very different cards. What you have to do is compare different CSAs to comparable CSAs elsewhere in the county. If you want to start a tech business, you aren't very likely going to start it in Riverside, but that'd be a good place to start a trucking business. The same applies to states; sometime social dysfunction is useful. Arkansas and West Virginia have the lowest educational attainment in the US, which makes them a great place to start a low-wage business. Massachusetts and Maryland have the highest educational attainment in the US, which makes it a great place to start, say, a biotech firm. California has counties that resemble either end of the spectrum.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
GSP is also fairly skewed, placing Alaska and North Dakota high based on selling natural resources, and ignoring accounting gimmicks that place Deleware and states without income tax higher.
California has plenty of issues as you say, but is hardly a "failed state" like Kansas.
Unemployment rates are widely accepted as part of the measure of the strength of an economy.
That's nice and all, but you left them off. I guess reading comprehension lead you to skipping that?
I mean, maybe you think all of us are so dumb that you can just barf out a comparison between states as if that was meaningful, and none of the rest of us will notice what a load of junk that is, but I'd rather think you were just poor at reading.
Of course, no single factor can generally be viewed in isolation.
Then why did you try to do what you did?
Nope, they worked hand in hand to screw the common people. Who eventually drove both of them off, though sadly new nobles are always hellbent on taking the mantle.
Odds are good the city is in on it because they don't want to upset "job creators". Meanwhile, if it goes to the governor, they'll just talk about how they're not responsible because they were played. Meanwhile, said GP will receive shit from all parties involved for rocking the boat. Not that excuses not doing anything, but I wouldn't surprised if he did say something and nothing has come from it.
Nope, you should learn how to use computers and read -- there's a link you can click on. I know HTML may be hard for mentally challenged individuals, but links are these things that are often underlined and, on /., followed by a hostname in clear text.
Again, you should learn how to read. I included several factors in my comment -- unemployment was just one of them.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
Sounds like your business neighbor does not deserve the privileges of having either customers or employees. Only thing deserved for him should be bankruptcy.
This space unintentionally left blank.
Don't tell me. Tell the guy I was responding to. He's the one who argues "laws" like laws are sacred and the politicians who write them should be worshipped.
well.... when the prototype iPhone gets lost when an apple employee takes it with them during a lunch break you can understand their concerns.
Fuck off, shill. You don't even see macs4all defending this shit.
Every little thing Apple does destroys the little equity they have left. They are now rich, but they are riding on Jobs vision stripping what's left of his ideals (with all his pros and cons, he was quite remarkable).
You mean things like being sued for stuff that happened while Jobs was still alive and stopped when he was dead? The sanctification of Steve Jobs by Apple Haters is becoming ridiculous.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
That's really interesting. I'd love to hear more.
By Apple or have no job actually get nothing. The world we live in is so ugly for a few cents can we be anything other than doomed?
I know you are, but what am I?
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Bsically, each worker wronged is entitled to about $50 - $90 while the lawyer laughs all the way to the bank. Class action lawsuits are pathetic.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Referring others to the entirety of the Internet is not a source, princess
Again, you should learn how to read. I included several factors in my comment -- unemployment was just one of them.
You must think everyone else is too dumb to spot your deceits. Yo randomly babbled several disjointed statements and expected us to allow them.
That's why you couldn't even state the employment numbers. Still can't. You're blaming someone else for your incapacity.
But really, it takes a special brand or stupidity for you to think nobody else can spot your mendacity. It might as well just be trivia.
disgusting company apple is.
Cowards who hide behind AC are hard to figure out -- in particular, I have no idea which of the ACs in the thread you are.
However, I gave you a link to the employment numbers - JUST CLICK ON IT (the URL is a .gov in the US so even if you are enough of an idiot to not have protected yourself from malicious URLs, it's a lot safer than the porn URLs you regularly click on). If you refuse to click on a reference, you're the idiot. Or, you just haven't figured out what a link IS (I assume it's the latter given the evidence that your IQ is just enough to support a sporadic heartbeat and an occasional breath - leaving only enough electrical signals to spasm on your mothers keyboard from time to time).
And, no, not disjointed -- unlike the post I responded to, I didn't cherry pick, I didn't post disingenuous claims that, while technically true, are irrelevant. Intelligent people take relevant facts when presented and tie them together in obvious ways without a thousand page "See Dick Run, See Spot Poop" guidemap -- unfortunately, you appear not to be one of those intelligent people.
Anyone reading this thread long ago figured out who the idiot is -- and it's not the person posting as AC!
Have a nice life.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
Well, you know, you could simply not be assholes and give everyone meal breaks? Then you wouldn't have any of these problems.
In the USA, most of our laws are enforced through civil court action -- laws like workers rights give the worker the right to sue if the law isn't followed. We don't have a police force going around investigating most of our civil regulations. The workers bringing a lawsuit like this is how the system is *designed* to work. It generally provides the right balance... rather than the government injecting itself into all our economic and social relationships, the people involved are free to negotiate a system that works for them and only appeal to the government when no reasonable accord can be reached or when one side just goes too far. It is the social equivalent of kids yelling for the parents to come resolve things... you don't want the government to be constantly monitoring because they have to enforce all the rules when they get involved ("fine... everyone go to your rooms") and can disrupt a lot of what is working.
Here's the citation: http://www.politifact.com/cali... Yes, California has the 6th largest economy in the world.
I hope you understand that the president to be is extremely corporate friendly. Around half (mostly the right wing) of the US demand fewer regulations for corporations - it's retarding competition.
He's not that far off the mark.
This seems to weigh heavily in the corporations favor.
How can someone making minimum wage sue with any lawyer?
What chemicals are you talking about?
Most companies banned toxins years before that Apl started using early in production... Then got patted on the back for it. Can you tell me what they're doing that others haven't already done?
"As they should, because they have the largest population [wikipedia.org] of any state in the US. About 1 of 8 people in the US live in California."
As they should, because they have the largest bank accounts of any citizen in the state. They live off those workers backs, they need to reinvest in those workers and their communities.
*sigh* The solution for everything is NOT the invisible hand of the market. That hand is currently giving everyone the finger. If poor practices and lawbreaking were gonna bankrupt them, they would have gone under already.
In what insanity can ANYONE EVER be exempt from breaks ?
You do realize that human bodies, like any other machine, requires energy to power it. We are not solar powered. We get our energy from eating food during breaks. The only people who could logically be exempted from breaks are those who work 3 hours a day - as they can reasonably get their meals in outside of work hours.
You expect people to work a full day without a lunch break ? You're going to have incredibly unproductive employees. And this applies to desk workers no less than manual labourers, brains use energy to function too. If the body is low on energy - the brain scales down operations and devotes that limited energy to essential survival functions making far less available for non-essential higher cognition functions. Just like your laptop when the battery gets low will start to save power by slowing down the CPU clock and dimming the screen.
Do you seriously think we figured out how to do powersaving in laptops - but 4 billion years of evolution hasn't figured out how to do that in brains which are trillions of times more advanced ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
>That's what Trump keeps saying about Mexicans. Is obeying laws right for some people and wrong for others?
Nevermind that what Trump says nicely ignores the fact that the only reason ANYBODY breaks that law is because it's filled with so much burocracy that it's physically impossible to follow it unless you are already rich (and then the odds of WANTING to go to America goes way down - why would ANY sane person CHOOSE to live in that crazy country where all your neighbours want to shoot you if you are RICH where you live ?)
But like I said, nevermind THAT. You may want to stop worshipping at the Trump temple now since he's clearing going to sell you out on that one. He just appointed the CEO of Karl's Junior to his cabinet - one of the largest users of immigrant labour, a man who has gone to massive lengths to avoid immigration enforcement over his businesses, has repeatedly and publicly stated that he PREFERS illiegal immigrants over American labour because their lack of legal status makes them basically indentured slaves (you can make them work for any price because they dare not complain for fear of being deported). And Trump just put him in the white house.
Sorry pal. Trump lied ... again.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Then let me give you a very good rule of thumb.
If the "person" is actually a BUSINESS -then ALL laws ARE sacrosanct and MUST be obeyed without question.
If it's an actual PERSON - then some laws may be wrong and may on occasion deserve to broken. A good example of a law that SHOULD be broken is a law that unjustly denies some people a right that others have. Like making Rosa Parks move to the back of the bus - it was right of her to break that law.
The reason this rule of thumb is so uncannilly good at telling the difference is because there is a key difference between a person and a business: a business is not a human being and does not HAVE rights. The law cannot violate the rights of a business since it HAS none and never SHOULD have any.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
>given the evidence that your IQ is just enough to support a sporadic heartbeat and an occasional breath - leaving only enough electrical signals to spasm on your mothers keyboard from time to time
It's not his IQ that's the problem. It's that there is only enough energy available to his brain for those core essential functions and none left for higher cognitiion because his employer wouldn't let him have lunch breaks.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Actually that's not quite as true as you think.
For example - adjusted for inflation and cost-of-living changes, what the average 14th century English peasant earned in a year, would be equivalent to earning 20 thousand pounds a year today - that's a VERY comfortable salary.
The great poverty ever experienced in England happened during industrial revolution. Child mortality before 10 went up from about 50% in the 18th century to over 90% with starvation and worked-to-death being prime factors in the increase. More people were homeless or starving in 19th century English society than at any time before. It lasted until the end of World War 2 - when the welfare state (and critically the NHS) became a thing.
This was Britain in the 1920s: http://www.newstatesman.com/po...
There are still people who remember what life before the welfare state was REALLY like - and none of THEM want to go back, and the libertarians who do - either don't know, or are so convinced of their own superiority that they are absolutely certain they would be in the top 5% and never experience the results of the policies they promote. A few of them, of course, have bought the bullshit that Murray Rothbard and co have been telling them about how getting rid of welfare and regulations will actually improve their lives - they are just in for a shock when they discover how austerity makes them even more poor. They'll end up looking back at the last few years as a heaven on earth compared to what their lives will be like if the Koch brothers and their pet-republicans get their way.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Excellent comment. Yes, AMERICANS are idiots. They'll take a pile driver up the ass and smile while theyre gettin it, just to please the boss so that one day, maybe..
I'm embarrassed to be an American. This is the most ball-less, nut-less bunch of porn addicted, got my car mixed up w my dick group of people to ever hit the planet! By my estimate, We're fucked. We will not last more than ten more years before the race extincts. The end is very near. I am so sad that my fate and destiny, which is destined ruinous, just had to be tied in with such a sad, sorry group of motherfuckers.
Humanity has been a failure. We're so stupid, we got to go... Seriously, humans collectively are incredibly stupid. Who would shit in its own nest, this precious earth and shit rightbinto the business of the most vile profound exploitation of other members of our own species!? No animal is as brutal and barbaric to its own as we are! None!! Dogs, rats, even cockroaches do a better job of caring for their own, than we do!!!
It's a mangled debacle of post apocalyptic porno stew that was left on hot-high far too long, much less to save, or serve.
How'd we let them few old white cocksuckers take over the wheel while we were just too busy, watching tv and getting it on w the American dream..
We're going to pay dearly. We already are. And we will pay so dearly. That is, with our lives. It's coming down to that. Not checking these bastards and not taking political responsibility for our former democracy is going to cost us our lives and the lives of our children. That is the cost of inattention and lassitude. This is everyone's fault. Everyone. We are all guilty. All of us.
We just don't want to be responsible. We cannot grow up to ever be autonomous self sufficient adults. We're eternal toddlers. Shitting everywhere, breaking everything. We nust cannot recognize that our political liberty being an ideal/value -we must fight and work hard for. Liberty doesn't just passively evolve or even remain. It falls apart when left alone. It just decays and dies. Like an unwatered plant. The grand Democratic experiment. Grade F
Ya finally noticed, "in favor of the corporation." Really? You just now noticed? You are stating what's been evident for a very long time to the many.
Yes. It's good for business which means in your skewed world and the one we live in, its pretty much than going to be bad for labor. Havnt you noticed the two are mutually exclusive. Moron.
I cant reward treating workers bad eventually it makes others treat me badly if I do.
Giving truth to 'better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt".
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Haha, you're the twat who whinged about people getting meal breaks, and now you're defending instead? Get your fuckin' story straight.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Obviously your perk-blessed workers will evaporate even faster, as your corporates decide to take the plunge and buy machines that don't demand meal breaks.
The beauty about all this, of course, is that the very machines that don't need meal breaks don't go out for food either. Or coffee. Or anything else. And neither do the freshly liberated 'workers' who don't have any money.
Great environment for business growth, there.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
"ineligible for breaks". You don't hear that over here. Funny how you guys don't just hire people to do work, and pay them. You have to fucking own them as well. Some serious stockholm syndrome too, most of the victims seem weirdly infatuated with that system.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Yeah. The attitude is that the occasional break would be like handing over the fillings out of your fucking head. Amazing isn't it.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Instances of the words "finally" or "noticed" in parent: 0.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
California labor law is an absolute nightmare. There are about a half dozen extra things you have to track that don't have any significant effect on productivity or labor rights, but add large extra costs to payroll and HR. I deal with payrolls from multiple states and our procedures are completely different for California because of all the labor laws that don't line up with the rest of the country. The troll post is correct, although without any proper explanation.
We got sued by an engineer who passed his PE three months after being fired for lunch and breaks... because we didn't have proof he took them. (He did take lunch, despite being ineligible for breaks.) We won, but that is the kind of crap you get to put up with as an employer.
If someone is working more than ~4 hours they should get a break. If it's a full day they should get a lunch break. End of story. If you're just working people to the bone because you're legally allowed to then fuck your shitty company. What are they called?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
You think "Apple Haters" sanctify Steve Jobs? lol.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Yes. These lawsuits are about maybe one or two "people" missing part of their lunch (or getting lunch a little late) probably just the once
.
I just wondered to myself if I could minimise it even more than your (really quite ridiculously) biased language. Turns out I could - just a tad.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Yeah, but if he doesn't couch it in biased language, he realises he doesn't have a point. Hence, the dramatically ungenerous characterisation.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Yes. It says lunches were a little late. And some complaining about scheduling difficulties. And some guys got a final paycheck a little late. Not exactly earth shattering.
FTFY. Your mask slipped a second there. Don't you mean a "little" late? Don't just say "late" - that makes it sound that the employer wasn't perfectly angelic.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
If you believe fictional stories about us, yes. Also we spend our nights huddled in our homes hiding from vampires.
That last bit isn't fictional, I've seen it on the TV.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
More likely they were about "working lunches" where a meeting or such is scheduled for lunch time and employees are expected to eat while working.
This is people working in the shops, there's no eating while you're trying to upsell.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Where the fuck is some government labor board to step in after ONE complaint?
If this happened in Canada, I'd print off the law from the government website and allow the employer to get their shit together.
If they said fuck you, I'd make a call to the labour board and file a complaint (and keep calling them until rectified). Then they'd have to take immediate action or they'd be fighting the government.
Where's all this over regulation I keep hearing about?
Justly rated "troll" right now. Kohath's "evidence" is simply doing a search using his unsupported statement, but look at the actual results of his search and his claim immediately collapses into smoking ruins. That's why he didn't post any of them.
The query will of course tend to bring up *any* similar claims, rather than tending to bring up objective rankings, but only one single source of this claim appears in the top 20 search results - an unscientific (i.e. self-selected) poll by Chief Executive magazine. That's it. No other source making this claim. (CEOs as a group, it should be noted, have a high proportion of sociopaths - or worse - a fact that should be born in mind when considering CEO opinions about things).
But of the eight or so independent state rankings that show up in this search, none of them places California at the bottom. It is 8th from the top on one, and in the middle of several others. Not even the one-note Tax Foundation, that uses only a single metric for rating everything (low taxes on businesses = heaven, high taxes on businesses = hell, nothing else matters) places California on the bottom of their list.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
Isn't it funny though that I got governmwnt guys patrolling my neighborhood that can even kick down my door if they suspect I'm breaking the law, but the companies don't? Isn't it interesting that a company can hurt the lives of more people than I can, but I'm under constant government scrutiny but they aren't?
So let's get this straight. You are actually attempting to refute the argument that California's labor laws are conducive to productive business compared to less enlightened laws in the rest of the US by pointing out that California is 11 percent more productive per person than the US in general. You really shouldn't introduce the notion of being impressed as your reasoning is most unimpressive.
If the purpose is to compare the difference in state laws then comparing California as a state is perfectly valid. California's economy is the largest of the US states. California's economy is 11 percent more productive per person than all the US states together. Really there is no need to go further. The California labor laws are proven to be supportive of both growth and superior productivity.
Rubbish. There are many cases where both were healthy and did not curb one another at all. Typically they acted in concert to abuse the population. In fact that is what the Feudal system was. Nobles slaughtered entire cities for the church. The church exacted taxes just like the nobles. The church also enjoyed inquisitions to make more money while simultaneously imposing divide and rule. The was no happy balance of church and state in the middle ages. It was a brutal and vicious system that was the antithesis of the rights we enjoy today.
No, I was merely pointing out that the fact that California has the largest economy in the US is only due to its population being the largest -- per capita it's not at the top or even in the top three.
To clarify where California really sits in the hierarchy, I provided some relevant numbers to augment the irrelevant statistic the original poster presented.
You seem to be reading challenged as I state NO opinion about California labor laws being good or bad or conducive or harmful to a strong economy - where you got that I have no idea. Perhaps your meds need adjusting?
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
I feel bad for you if you think defending the richest company on earth from charges of stiffing its hardworking employees is a worthwhile endeavor.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Agreed. If the workers don't like the conditions, they should work elsewhere. If anybody wants the useless buggers.
"Exempt" employees manage their own time and do their job as they see fit. Of course everyone gets breaks and lunch-- it is just that you have to prove that "Non-Exempt" employees actually took it, away from their workstation.
It is hard to be a "professional" under non-exempt status.
The issue is PROOF that he took breaks and lunch.
An exempt employee is paid to do a week's work, not 40 hours. An exempt employee can work as few hours as they see fit to do their job; if they do it to our satisfaction in 20 hours then great!
It's the race to the bottom effect. There's no sense in using the more expensive "worker" if the superior choice allows you to undercut everyone else, and prevent the reverse.
Yet we've pinched proles to the limit already, and money simply must be fluid for an economy to "breathe", react.
We'll just issue a miniscule UBI that, at best, can only afford the newly-"efficient" lows of products. If you want to eat something other than soy paste, live in something other than terrafoam, you'll need to supplement with the $5/wk labor that manages to undercut even robowork. They're illegal jobs, of course. As if legislation fixes it.