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Russia Extends Edward Snowden's Asylum To 2020, To Offer Citizenship Next Year (cnn.com)
Whistleblower and former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden has been allowed to remain in Russia for another three years and will next year qualify to apply for Russian citizenship. From a report on CNN: Edward Snowden's leave to remain in Russia has been extended until 2020, Russia's Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova has confirmed to CNN. Snowden, a former US National Security Agency contractor, sought asylum in Russia in June 2013 after leaking volumes of information on American intelligence and surveillance operations to the media. On Tuesday, Zakharova announced an extension of a "couple of years" in a Facebook post that criticized former CIA acting director Michael Morell for an opinion piece he wrote suggesting that Russian President Vladimir Putin should consider returning Snowden to the United States as "the perfect inauguration gift" to President-elect Donald Trump. Snowden settled in Moscow after initially traveling to Hong Kong following his 2013 public disclosure of classified information. The Russian government granted him asylum soon after. In August 2014, Snowden received a three-year extension to his leave to remain in Russia. That extension was due to expire this year.
Putin will wave Snowden around like a puppet as long as he's useful. He'll vanish the nanosecond he is no longer.
Russia will never let him go home. A pardon is a death sentence.
Since Trump and Putin are BFFs, then Trump should pardon Snowden for helping both Russia and America deal with the NSA which Trump doesn't trust anyway.
See kids, that "schizophrenic slashdot reaction" post I made wasn't a joke.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
What the ever-loving FUCK are you talking about? I think the partisan Koolaid has given you brainfreeze.
Sun Tzu on The Use of Spies:
The enemy's spies who have come to spy on us must be sought out, tempted with bribes, led away and comfortably housed. Thus they will become converted spies and available for our service.
... If all the NSA folks and anyone else who was in on it are tried for civil rights violations
The fact that Trump surrounded himself with former Nixon supporters, KGB sympathizers, and crony capitalists is no joke.
No he didn't seek asylum in Russia after he leaked volumes of information to media. He did seek asylum due to the fact that the US canceled he's passport.
* But commuting Manning's sentence is great or something, so leaking sensitive information that got people in Afghanistan killed? All good as long as it's politically damaging to nazi-Bush.
I am going to need a citation, wait found one. https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
Russian President Vladimir Putin should consider returning Snowden to the United States as "the perfect inauguration gift" to President-elect Donald Trump
Either Russia systemically hacked the democratic election process of the united states in a secret plot to elect donald trump to the whitehouse as president of the united states, and therefore must be economically and politically sanctioned for doing so
or Russia is a transparent and beneficial partner of the united states, and diplomatically should concede to gifting its democratically elected leaders during their inauguration.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I don't normally post as an AC, but this is so politically-charged that I really don't want to end up a virtual fine red mist all over the Internets..
Current evidence is suggesting that Trump, being a wealthy, 'successful' Western businessman, who has little self control, little self discipline, little situational awareness, and impulsive as hell, went to Russia at some point, allowed himself to get drawn into one or more highly compromising situations (wouldn't at all be surprised if he killed someone, or was made to look like he killed someone, probably a prostitute), and Putin, being ex-KGB, did what KGB does: blackmailed the living hell out of Trump, who now is going to be a traitor to the U.S.. He's in too deep to just admit what happened and take the hit, that would now be at least as damaging to the United States, both materially and optically, to even be considered as a way out. So we endure 4 years of possibly being sold out to Russia, having the U.S. turn a blind eye to Putin trying to resurrect the Soviet Union, which he's obviously pining for, and to Hell with whatever shreds of dignity and credibility the U.S. had in the eyes of the rest of the nations of the world. Never mind climate change eventually killing us all, Trump and Putin will do it for us in single-digit years. I sure hope all you two-digit IQ morons who voted for Trump are happy with yourselves when 'making America great again' blows up in your faces.
I don't understand the logic behind pardoning Manning but not Snowden.
Snowden was very careful about how he released material not to get people hurt, the information he released was relevant and sincere whistle-blowing, not just random data dumps from sensitive sources.
Manning was just a show-off trying to data-dump anything she could get her hands on without a greater purpose in mind. She did it because she could, not because she had any morale compass.
Snowden should be the one forgiven and returned to the US public sector, not Manning. Obama got this one backwards.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
so leaking sensitive information that got people in Afghanistan killed?
Never happened.
It was just a bullshit claim by the people who got exposed.
So, by "hacking the elections", which is pure hyperbole, meaning "hacked the democrates, the DNC, HRC campaign and exposing the collusion with the MSM and even some Republicans, the criminal enterprise known as the Clinton Foundation, you're saying that all of that was .. done by the Russians to help Trump?
So, the Russians made the democrats, Hillary and all the rest do all those unsavory (criminal??) things just to get Trump elected. You're a special kind of person aren't you.
Sorry, but the Hillary loss can be placed at the feet of Hillary, the Democrats, the MSM and the RINOs who were conspiring against the american people. But yeah, keep blaming the Russians!
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
TRUMP: Fake News! Aren't you sad that you got duped!?
That would certainly complicate a lot of people's opinions of Donald Trump around here.
Not for me. I'd still think he was an asshole who has no business being president. One good deed doesn't excuse a lifetime of douchebaggery.
"Successful" is not the proper term. If he had left his inheritance alone, he would be twice as wealthy as he claims to be now. (The properties and investments, as well as market based funds would total more today) And it is likely what he claims is inflated.
Literally, if he had just lived the life of a rich playboy, he would be twice as wealthy. His attempts at business have cost him half his wealth.
Yes. Timing is the key to understanding it. Sanders would have defeated Trump easily. The timing of the releases were carefully placed so as to build suspicion with independants while not hurting her primary bid. Then once she clenched that, proof that it was a rigged primary sent a lot of independants away from the DNC to either Green, Libertarian, and even a number to Trump.
If they had released it all in the beginning, we would be swearing in Sanders tomorrow.
If it wasn't done to help Trump, why is there evidence of extreme elation among party operatives in Putin's circle when Trump won? Why is it so hard to believe that Russia preferred someone who would cause them less problems than someone who would cause them more , such as Clinton?
43% of likely voters said federal corruption was the issue that affected their decision the most.
Trump owes his election to some extent on the Snowden revelations which caused ordinary Americans to diminish their view of the government, especially under the administration.
Make him head of the FBI or something like that. Let him throw out with impunity the critters who monitor the emails.
Who do you think hacked the DNC? Who had a motive to do so and then not claim credit for it?
You are right about Hillary being a flawed candidate, im right there with you, but someone hacked the DNC and her campaign and that didn't just happen by accident, it was a targeted attack so someone had to have a reason to do it.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Hillary is more likely to start world war III.
She was more than happy to destabilize Syria if it got more donations for her "foundation".
The first sentence of that story shows how ignorant you are of how the world works.
The Guardian -- not exactly an unbiased source -- claims that at trial Manning's defense team pretended that nobody got killed due to the leaks because no specific individual that was specifically named in the leaks was proven to have been killed specifically because of the leaks.
Let's assume that the one-sided story presented by Manning's defense at trial -- yes, he received a fair trial, more than Trump is receiving in the press -- is true: So the fuck what. It's well documented that the Taliban read the leaks and went around indiscriminately killing people who they though fit the profile of collaborators. The fact that the Taliban didn't get the right guy doesn't mean that those Afghans weren't murdered because Manning was an attention-seeking sociopath.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
So, the Russians made the democrats, Hillary and all the rest do all those unsavory (criminal??) things just to get Trump elected.
Whatever "unsavory" thing you imagine the Clintons to have done, Donald Trump can match it or top it for sheer asshattery. And judging by the Bond villians he's nominating for cabinet positions he's just getting warmed up on the unsavory activities. Is Hillary a saint? Hell no. Nobody who runs for high office is without sin. But Trump is worse in pretty much every imaginable way when it comes to being a criminal and an all around terrible person.
Sorry, but the Hillary loss can be placed at the feet of Hillary, the Democrats, the MSM and the RINOs who were conspiring against the american people.
"Conspiring against the American people"? Snort... That's rich. I think you might be off your medications if you think the republican party is any more concerned about the well being of the American people than the democrats are. Doubly so if you think Trump has the best interests of you and me at heart.
Look, whatever Trump has done, or will do, he can pardon himself.
If Ford could pardon Nixon before any charges were even filed, then maybe Trump could pardon all of his children and their children, even yet unborn; before any charges are filed.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Putin has many reasons to hold on to Snowden and almost no reasons to turn him over to the US.
Turning him over to the US _might_ curry favor with Trump, however
A: Trump is too inconsistent for something like that to have a dependable long term effect, and
B: More importantly we're pretty sure Putin already owns Trump, probably along multiple lines. You don't need to curry favor with your pawns.
C: And whether Putin owns Trump or not, it certainly doesn't benefit him to _appear_ as if he owns Trump any more than he can avoid, and sending him Snowden as an "inauguration gift" would definitely lend itself to that appearance.
On the other hand, Snowden is an embarrassment to the US (or more accurately, he brought to light and continues to emphasize the way in which the US has embarrassed itself) which is valuable PR for Russia. Even if Putin owns the president it never hurts to have multiple lines of attack available.
Keeping Snowden in good standing encourages other people who might have negative information about the US or whose mere existence and freedom might embarrass the US to look to Putin for support, potentially giving him more ammunition in the future.
And as long as he has Snowden under his control Putin can always offer him up as a bargaining chip in the event that the puppet strings on Trump fail and he really needs to make a deal for some reason. (At which point of course the FSB will suddenly discover evidence that Snowden has been betraying Putin all along, so that it won't be a betrayal on Putin's part to return him to the US.)
Or alternately if he orders Trump to do something for Russia that is so outrageous that it strains credulity he can offer up Snowden as an excuse for Trump making the deal. (Again, shortly after the FSB "discovers" evidence against Snowden.)
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
I don't normally post as an AC, but this is so politically-charged that I really don't want to end up a virtual fine red mist all over the Internets..
Current evidence is suggesting that Trump, being a wealthy, 'successful' Western businessman, who has little self control, little self discipline, little situational awareness, and impulsive as hell, went to Russia at some point, allowed himself to get drawn into one or more highly compromising situations (wouldn't at all be surprised if he killed someone, or was made to look like he killed someone, probably a prostitute), and Putin, being ex-KGB, did what KGB does: blackmailed the living hell out of Trump...
Bob Woodard - one of the Watergate reporters himself and hardly a Republican - calls those papers garbage documents.
Soak your FAKE NEWS in gasoline. Then shove it up your ass. Then light it on fire.
What's the easiest way to make a billion dollars?
Start with two billion dollars. That is precisely what the Orange Fluff did.
> Who had a motive to do so and then not claim credit for it?
People who don't want to see a monstrously unethical, and possibly criminal, president. And who also do not want to go prison by claiming "credit". If all you are filtering by is "motive", you have to point billions of fingers at Americans, non-Americans, etc.
Can the president pardon Snowden's revelations of the NSA's domestic spying and leave active the charges of leaking secrets of the NSA's overseas operations? This would show support for him being a legitimate whistleblower to some extent.
2017: Still being so mentally limited that everything has to be a binary choice
Listen here, buddy: Hillary Clinton was not in any way shape or form suited to be President of the United States of America.
That being said and understood, now listen to this: Donald Trump is, for different reasons, in no way, shape or form, suited to be President of the United States of America, either!
The citizens of the United States have been fucked over by their own electoral system, and by their own worst natures.
Now, ALL THAT having been said: Donald Trump is, in all likelihood, compromised, and in the end, much to our utter dismay, we'll ALL find this out -- assuming there is a United States left at that point. It's all a runaway freight train at this point in time; the responsbile, adult members of the GOP know it, and will try to mitigate and limit the damage he and his appointees are going to do, as much as they can. The responsible, adult members of the DNC also know it, and will try to mitigate and limit the damage he and his appointees are going to do, as much as they can. The rest of us normal citizens are left in the lurch, literally a nation divided, and will have to hang on as best we can for the next 4 years and hope there's a country left to have elections in, assuming that is that Trump manages to last the whole 4 years without being impeached, thrown out of office, out-and-out civil war, death take us, or the world end. All your rhetoric, all your arguments, all your trolling, mocking, ridiculing, finger-pointing, and otherwise nonsense mean NOTHING now, are not helping anyone on either side of the aisle. It may take months or even a year, but you and everyone else who thought EITHER ONE OF THEM winning the election was going to be a Good Thing and was going to fix any problems in this country, is going to find out exactly how totally and completely LOST we all are now. It may take the next FIFTY YEARS to fix all the damage done by 8 years of Obama, a totally botched 2016 election, and 4 years of President Pussy-Grabber. So how about you and everyone else just SHUT THE FUCK UP because NOBODY WON ANYTHING, EVERYONE, IN THE END, HAS LOST!
My hope is that the Trump administration will continue to highlight the inequalities that are baked into the current system.
Unless there is some path to actually do something about them what exactly would be the point of that? I have close to zero confidence that anything will meaningfully change any time soon.
The two party system must come to an end.
Only way that will happen is if we change the voting system to be something other than First Past the Post and we get rid of Gerrymandering. However since both of those things support the interests of the two major parties neither is likely to see any meaningful reform any time soon.
> The Guardian -- not exactly an unbiased source
So, exactly what sources do you consider unbiased?
I really want to know what they have to say about Snowden, wikileaks, russia, et al...
Because, obviously you are much better informed than I am. Please help a brother out.
Who do you think hacked the DNC? Who had a motive to do so and then not claim credit for it?
Everyone who dislikes Hillary. I'm one of them, for example. I'm a programmer who dislikes Hillary, and I bet there are a lot more of us on this site, so apparently all of us are possibly suspects. You don't even need to like Trump to have a motive, you only have to dislike Hillary.
Not that programming has much to do with breaking into email accounts or servers, but whatever.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
The problem there is that unless he pardons the NSA staff, there would be trials expected for those staff that infringed the rights of the American people. Better to leave that can of worms unopened.
>People who don't want to see a monstrously unethical, and possibly criminal, president
But you guys still voted in that president?
Because the ACA Medicare expansion pays for his meds. He almost died a couple of times because we couldn't afford them. So yeah, people are gonna die because of that leak. Lots of them.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
If Russia is going to offer him citizenship, how long until it becomes a mandatory offer?
As in, either he becomes a citizen and thus an even greater propaganda tool for Putin, or Putin throws him to the wolves.
I don't think anyone here, other than tools like cajunarson, believe Snowden's asylum in Russia is anything more than the least worst choice for Snowden. I suspect he really does not want to be a russian citizen because I believe Snowden when he says he's motivated by patriotism.
I wouldn't hold it against him if he accepted Putin's offer that he couldn't refuse. But I'd like to see a better outcome for him.
Thank-you for documenting your schizophrenic reactions for the record while at the same time illustrating your lack of intelligence knowledge. MAGA!
Seth Rich.
I can't prove it was him, anymore than you can prove it was "TEH RUSSIANS!!!!!!!"
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either Clinton or Trump. But I am a weirdo nutjob third party guy, so my vote rarely matters. Not that it would matter in California unless I was part of the Democrat Cabal .
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Article II grants the president the power of a pardon "except in cases of impeachment"
Easy — to sabotage Trump's agenda with just the kind of accusations we are discussing.
And it worked too.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Which is why she did it anonymously......?
You mean she didn't have time nor the resources to sort the data. Either she'd still be doing that today, or would have leak bits and pieces, increasing the chances of the government finding out.
In any case, it's a sad commentary on the human condition that you are concerned with the propriety of the leaker but the crimes revealed by said leaker just aren't important enough to talk about. You know, stuff like torture, the Collateral Murder video, giving young boys to "allied" Afghans to be raped...
How could they "release it all in the beginning?" How are they supposed to release emails about how Hillary got the debate questions in advance from CNN in March 2016 when the primary season started in summer 2015? Did the Russians hack time, too? Why the fuck not apparently they've hacked everything else.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
How else would you back up the claim that people died as the result of the leaks??
If he had left his inheritance alone, he would be twice as wealthy as he claims to be now.
You're still repeating this crap? Fred Trump didn't die until 1999. The "analysis" you're talking about assumes Donald got Fred's 1999 fortune in the 1970s. Unless Trump also has a time machine, that doesn't work out.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
You can't pardon future actions. A document that gives you immunity from prosecutions for future otherwise illegal actions is called a warrant.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Yes. Timing is the key to understanding it. Sanders would have defeated Trump easily. The timing of the releases were carefully placed so as to build suspicion with independants while not hurting her primary bid. Then once she clenched that, proof that it was a rigged primary sent a lot of independants away from the DNC to either Green, Libertarian, and even a number to Trump. If they had released it all in the beginning, we would be swearing in Sanders tomorrow.
Let's not forget that the DNC wanted Trump to win the Republican nomination. So first Trump let Hillary drag him center stage as the enemy, then he let her eliminate Sanders before landing a final blow nobody saw coming until late election night? If all of that was planned Machiavelli could take lessons from him. If could simply be that they know the media has the attention span of a humming bird on speed, let's just pace this out so we get a good buzz and can keep it going until the election and that the rest was plain lucky. It's either that or we're in a Bond movie.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The fact that Trump surrounded himself with former Nixon supporters, KGB sympathizers, and crony capitalists is no joke.
Not sure why this is being down modded as flame bait. It's a factually true statement.
Yes. Timing is the key to understanding it. Sanders would have defeated Trump easily. The timing of the releases were carefully placed so as to build suspicion with independants while not hurting her primary bid. Then once she clenched that, proof that it was a rigged primary sent a lot of independants away from the DNC to either Green, Libertarian, and even a number to Trump.
If they had released it all in the beginning, we would be swearing in Sanders tomorrow.
Right, because exposure of those emails was totally enough all by itself to overcome the cumulative effects of billions of dollars spent on her campaign plus the complete support of Americas very VERY substantial propaganda machine (Hollywood combined with the news media) and the support of ALL the living ex-presidents plus the suppression of all those videos etc showing Hillary going into spasms and convulsions when people asked her too many questions at the same time etc etc.
Yeah the exposure of those emails sure made all the difference...
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Breitbart told us, Duuuuhhh.
Yeah, maybe start by looking into your stories before reposting things you heard in some Liberal echo chamber.
The Russia "dossier" was shown to be a complete fabrication, even CNN backpedaled on it.
In fact, none of the stories linking Trump and Russia have turned out to have any credibility whatsoever.
It seems like the media are taking part in the ongoing political effort to "delegitimize" PEOTUS Trump before he takes office. I think they have every reason to fear Trump, he is a threat to the establishment. He wants to ban lobbying to people who worked in congress. He wants to investigate the CIA's involvement in fake news. He wants to audit the Federal Reserve, reduce corporate power in Washington, and bring us back to a capitalist economy. He wants to unravel the fraudulent pricing going on in US Healthcare (want to know how much care costs? Depends on your insurance. That's fraud.) among other goals. The establishment feels threatened, and I am seriously concerned for Trump's life. The fake news targeted at him and his supporters is just the beginning. And the Democrats seem all too happy to drink the cool aid and demonize the PEOTUS.
Make no mistake, Democrat = Rupublican on all issues but social ones which they use as a wedge to prevent 3rd parties from being part of the conversation. Somehow, Trump managed to become the Republican's candidate despite the fact that he does not align with their globalist and corporatist ideology. I believe the Republicans tried to get rid of him, but were unsuccessful. Maybe they were too late, and his popularity was already too great. I really don't know how it happened, but this is a very significant event.
Sanders was never a real candidate, the DNC picked Hillary before the race even began. It's a moot point.
He sold classified information to the Chinese and Russians. He is not like Manning, and did it all for profit.
From: http://www.investopedia.com/updates/donald-trump-rich/
The Trump Family Fortune
Trump's father, Frederick Christ "Fred" Trump, made a sizable fortune by building and selling housing for American soldiers and their families in World War II. It was at his father's real estate company that Donald got his start in business. In 1971, he took control of his father's apartment rental company, Elizabeth Trump & Son Co., and later on, he renamed it The Trump Organization. Trump stuck mostly with real estate investments during this period, particularly condo associations, huge apartment buildings and Federal Housing Administration (FHA)-backed housing, all in the New York metropolitan area.
Read more: This Is How Donald Trump Actually Got Rich | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/updates/donald-trump-rich/#ixzz4W92cwGlG
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Grats, Ed!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Sanders would have never defeated Trump. He would have been defeated worse than Hillary. Sanders simply took advantage of the passion and naivety of young voters and told them what they wanted to hear. Anyone who believes that Americans would vote in a guy perceived as a communist is quite delusional. Ironically, these are the same people who are attacking Trump for allegedly colluding with 'communist' Russians. And also the same people who were saying that Trump will start World War 3 with Russia just two months ago. The left has made a complete joke of itself.
>> Sanders simply took advantage of the passion and naivety of young voters and told them what they wanted to hear. Trump simply took advantage of the passion and naivety of uneducated, grey-haired voters and told them what they wanted to hear. Fixed that for you.
Does Snowden actually have permission to work in Russia? How is he getting by these days? Is the Russian government supporting him in any way, providing housing, etc.? I'm really glad he's at least getting by, even if he has to live in exile. I'm sure he just wants to find a way to get on with his life after doing such an incredible service to his country.
Yes, and the stupid analysis thing that "Trump would be twice as rich if he invested the inheritance in mutual funds" is not the article you posted, and the article you posted doesn't make any claim that Trump would be twice as rich if he invested the money. The "twice as rich" analysis assumes he took the $400 million he got in 1999 when Fred died, translated that into $400 million 1971 dollars and invested them with perfect market timing in 1971. Without a time machine, he would be unable to move the $400 million from 1999 to 1971.
Let me guess...Trump got a time machine from Putin, who can also hack time!
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
What is your point? Do you have a point? That additional information does neither refute nor support the previous claim. It is a waste of time to read and was a waste of time to find.
You're ignoring that this all is great entertainment for those of us lucky enough to live across the pond. Our popcorn industry is fucking booming!
I'm being serious about this. Rent, water, electric, internet access and food all cost money. Is all this being provided for him or does he work at the local grocery store bagging groceries? Does he have speaking fees? Donations? I have a tech job and worry about having enough for rent come the first of the month.
There is no reasoning with liberals today. They live in fucking la la land where Hillary can do no wrong. Its pathetic. They've been on this course since the founding of Moveon.org where they employ the scientology tactic of "always attack, never defend". Obama has been a God send to the Republican party. He's lost 900 state legislators, Congress, the Senate and now the presidency. Not to mention Republicans now have the majority of the govenorships. Just a few more and they can ammend the constitution without a single Democrat needed.
I'm a Republican and even I don't want them to have that kind of power. It sickens me watching the Democrats implode like this to the detriment of the country. Nancy Pelsoi, Harry Reid and Obama have bee a fucking disaster.
According to fortune, this is based off his own net worth in 1988. This does not seem to include Freds $$$.
Trump's net worth has grown about 300% to an estimated $4 billion since 1987, according to a report by the Associated Press. But the real estate mogul would have made even more money if he had just invested in index funds. The AP says that, if Trump had invested in an index fund in 1988, his net worth would be as much as $13 billion.
http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/
Anyone who watched the process KNEW full well that there was massive collusion by the DNC and Media to INSTALL Hillary as the candidate. In the first election, she won 6 straight coin tosses to take Iowa. That was day 1. So did Russia fix all of the coin tosses, card flips, and dice rolls of which Hillary won 100% of the "tie breakers"?
Good grief, I honestly wonder how much medication some of the people spreading these conspiracies are missing. I personally really enjoy researching conspiracies, which has led to me personally debunking most of them. What people are claiming over this last election cycle fails the most basic of scrutiny. Russia did not make Hillary attack women who accused William J of rape. The Russians did not make Hillary setup an illegal server. The Russians did not make her spread the lie that a crappy Youtube video caused 4 Americans to die. The Russians did not make her give 2-4 Hundred thousand dollar speeches where she said foolish things about erasing borders. The Russians did not make Hillary praise Sanger and Byrd. Those are things off the top of my head which have been public information for a very long time, all reported by sources OTHER THAN RT.
The Democrats ran a worse candidate than the Republicans. That is why Hillary lost! Not some baseless allegations. Good grief, think about the allegation. "Trump hates Obama so much that he paid hookers to piss on the bed that the Obama's slept in."
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
NOW GO AHEAD AND DOWNVOTE
Yes, the debate questions... THAT was the primary story in the news that swayed voters. Not the Clinton foundation, not the e-mails, not her 'health issues'...
The DNC isn't paying attention to its constituents like it should. I don't even remember having a single conversation in the past year, including with people who only ever pull the level for Democrats, where Hillary was equated to 'perfect' and 'could do no wrong'. Pretty much everyone I know preferred Sanders, including myself, and didn't want Clinton representing the party.
Cut down on the hyperbole FFS - it's one of the major reasons why people with opposing viewpoints cannot have a rational conversation. If people aren't willing to consider the timing of the leaks as a contributing factor to how the election the way it did, well, it's hard to have a conversation with anyone who doesn't believe in a historical record of fact. She was nowhere near a great candidate, in fact second most disliked in history (second to the 2016 winner, but second nonetheless). I'm not even sure where, other than thin air, where you're pulling that thought from.
The point was that Sanders was the better candidate and could have easily won had he gotten the nomination. Sanders was the movement on the Democrat side, Trump was on the Republican. Why it's so hard for people to accept that is tough to grasp. If you want to talk about difficulty reasoning with people, try to understand the central point before shooting your mouth off.
I would note that is also a product of demographics. If all the Democrats moved to the primary urban/metro areas in the US, then by default they forfeit control over 30 states, since the aformentioned metro areas are in a grand total of 10, maybe 15 states.
Consider how many states have less then 5 representatives. Nearly all of them that are not near another states metro area, went for the Republican Party (so in general they are large area, with minimal population).
Also consider the reality that the House of Representatives is now a tyranny of the minority (ironically).
First past the post also punishes Democrats moving to urban areas, since they increase an advantage that counts for nothing. The more wealth urban areas get (urbanization tends to do that), the less their political power they have, relatively.
In the end, the Republican party will probably end up having a strong lock on government, but the Democrat urban areas will dictate via economics to everyone else anyhow (California, New York and Texas routinely set standards that business follow and apply uniformly since it would cost too much to make different versions for the minority part of the economy, main one I'm familiar with is textbooks, but California environmental rules often come into play too).
If you mean you live in the UK: Remember that the U.S. is literally your biggest ally in the world, and that the UK isn't all that well-loved right now either. The U.S. goes down, you likely go down with it.. Besides which let's see how much you're laughing and enjoying yourselves when the full effect of Brexit becomes a reality. Also you're closer to Russia than we are, really.
If you mean you're in the EU: if/when Putin decides it's time to start his conquest of Europe, you'll be literally on the front lines and gobbled up first. So overall I wouldn't be laughing too much if I were you. Unless I and others are completely wrong nobody is going to be in for a Fun Time.
Who is the "KGB" sympathizer? Who is the former Nixon supporter? Crony capitalist is so inclusive as to be meaningless.
If he had left his inheritance alone, he would be twice as wealthy as he claims to be now.
You're still repeating this crap? Fred Trump didn't die until 1999. The "analysis" you're talking about assumes Donald got Fred's 1999 fortune in the 1970s. Unless Trump also has a time machine, that doesn't work out.
Well, considering that Trump seems to have gotten almost all his money through deals that his father set up and either loaned him the money for or cosigned on the bank loans, then it does seem like all of Trump's fortune is really just his inheritance.
Why did he take so many sensitive documents that had nothing whatsoever to do with domestic surveillance?
Why did he choose first to go to Hong Kong instead of a country that didn't have an extradition policy with the US?
Why did he lie about how much money he made on Ars Technia?
Why did he go on a obscenity filled tirade against Ben Bernanke when he lost 20k in the stock market?
Why did he alter his employee evaluation in the CIA which he ended up being forced to resign over?
Why did he steal the CIAs administrative answers before taking his employment test?
Why did he claim that he had the authority to intercept President Obama's private communications while working at the NSA?
Why would he claim that while he's touted as the champion of domestic surveillance?
Why did he steal and release documents on specific techniques that were used to intercept Taliban communications?
How was he able to board a flight to Russia without a required visa?
The entire pissing prostitutes is a troll story from a guy at 4chan. He passed it off and Buzzfeed and CNN ran with it and apparently the CIA also bought into it. Apparently they were so eager to smear Trump (as if he doesn't do a good enough job himself) that they jumped all over the story with only a very faint attempt at vetting it. Tellingly, the New York Times, a chief propaganda outlet for the DNC and a full fledged Trump hater, passed on the story. That alone should have been warning enough. Within hours of the story going viral it fell apart. The simplest thing such as a check on overseas travel logs would have clearly shown that it couldn't have happened and there were other problems with it as well. The more loonie of the liberal extreme still runs around screaming about it because, like the crazy extremists on the right they only hear what they want to hear. Basically it was all bullshit. What worries me most was that the CIA temporarily bought into it. Either they're more incompetent than I thought or more politicized that I thought or worst of all, both. I really didn't expect much from Buzzfeed but frankly I thought better of CNN.
I actually agree with you that Sanders might have been able to win the election. I certainly preferred him to Hilliary. I probably would have voted for the Libertarian if he had been the nominee. Hilliary was so bad I'd have voted for almost anyone rather than her, even that idiot Pelosi. Hilliary was very competent and connected to everything and would have been able to do a lot of damage as POTUS. Sanders would have started off with his crazy stipend bill and spun his wheels accomplishing nothing for 4 years.
Control of state legislatures is potentially a very powerful thing. A two-thirds majority of state legislatures in a Constitutional Convention is all it takes to amend the US Constitution.
Nixon did a lot of good. He seems to have been a bad *person*, but that doesn't always mean a bad POTUS. He did a lot for helping US-China relations, created the EPA, and enforced desegregation in Southern schools.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
I mean... both major party candidates fit that bill. Anyone who isn't too blinkered by two-party politics knew our next POTUS was going to be bad; how bad, and in what ways, was certainly up for debate, but bad nevertheless.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
There are more than a few Crony capitalists that were in the Obama cabinet. I'm more than positive that Hilliary's would have been loaded with them too. I'm not defending Trump's picks, they're his picks and it's his cabinet. We'll see what he does with it. Stone did work for Nixon in "the office of economic opportunity" whatever that was. He was 20 then so I doubt he was more than an errand boy. As for Trump praising Putin, it's the same praise anyone heaps on an enemy. He stated he was a strong leader. That's a matter of opinion but I'd say it's obvious a lot of people view him as that. In the same way that Stalin and Mao were strong leaders and many in Obama's cabinet worshiped Chairman Mao. Just because you're a son of a bitch it doesn't mean you're not a strong leader. I think demonizing your opponent is a mistake unless you intend to go to war. If you're going to war you want to paint them in the worst light possible. I'm not sure war with Russia is a good idea.
he received a fair trial, more than Trump is receiving in the press
Where's the SJW?!?
I demand that you mention how SJWs are the cause of schizophrenia.
Because SJWs always lie
SJW's always double down when caught in a lie.
And SJW's *always* project.
Stop being an apologist for SJWs!!!
don't forget Hillary just took advantage .... :p *LOL* but seriously I think the one thing the majority agree on is NONE of that the candidates that won the primaries and even all or most of them that came close were all poor choices for POTUS.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
There are more than a few Crony capitalists that were in the Obama cabinet. I'm more than positive that Hilliary's would have been loaded with them too.
Neither Obama nor Hillary ran on "draining the swamp" since everyone knew they were professional politicians. For Trump to turn around and fill the swamp with crony capitalists who have next to no experience with public office is being hypocritical. As one political commentator wrote, it's just changing the team shirts that the alligators wore.
Stone did work for Nixon in "the office of economic opportunity" whatever that was. He was 20 then so I doubt he was more than an errand boy.
He's the most blatant example. Trump has quoted Nixon: "If the president does it, it isn't illegal." Which is why the incoming Trump administration and the Republicans in Congress has a wholesale disregard to ethics. Forty years of post-Watergate reforms is being tossed aside. You don't have to wait to know that Trump administration will be the most corrupt since Nixon and Reagan.
As for Trump praising Putin, it's the same praise anyone heaps on an enemy.
How much does Trump owe the Russians? We don't know since Trump won't release his tax returns like every presidential candidate since Watergate.
many in Obama's cabinet worshiped Chairman Mao
Citation please? Warning: Anything from the right-wing echo chamber is fake news.
I'm not sure war with Russia is a good idea.
War with China is most likely.
His asylum expires at the same time as Windows 7 support. I guess Russia will also be upgrading to a newer whistleblower then.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
No point in trying to argue rationally with a Democrat. Give them a few weeks to rant and rave after losing a fair and democratic election, then they'll get bored and go back to jerking off to the Hillary Clinton Sex Tape.
Putin got a lot of PR, and possibly his preferred POTUS, because of Snowden. If the throws Snowden under the bus, future potential whistleblowers/leakers may not give out info. It is in his enlightened self interest to treat Snowden nice.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Trump enjoys
Sex with Russian boys
Donald might forgive him, but Hillary never will. Too many people who crossed Hillary have ended up "committing suicide" with 2 bullet holes to the back of their head.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
I am fairly confident, then, that Fox can be used as a poster boy for fake news, given they fought in court the right to produce fake news.
Actually the US caused the issue, by not acting in a rational manner.. All Snowden did was do what most people do.. read the signs (ie: "My life is in danger.. and the guys I thought were my friends are trying to kill me.. Let me go someplace they can't get to me")
You can't tell people "Come forward and talk with us" while grabbing your bat and gun when you don't like the answers given and expect them to stick around to be "silenced". In short, whistle blowers are treated like traitors when in fact, they are trying to HELP by talking with you instead of selling secrets to the highest bidder.
God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
Snowden, a former US National Security Agency contractor
yeah, that's all you need to know about why Snowden is significant
nevermind that "schizophrenic" fears of government conspiracy were proven true
Another one of these endless stories for the last few years trying to make everything about Snowden and Mass Surveillance seem normal.
When you see something like this it is literally equivalent to some one saying to your face "hey you fucking retard remember how you realized that society is nothing but a slave pen? now forget it, no one cares, stop talking about it, these exhaustive news stories cover the truth up and down every time, go back to work, faggot"
Seriously, the government, the major business owners, they are all conspiring to literally mind control the ENTIRE WORLD by using mass surveillance to supply the data to make complete psychological model of the population.
And this is how we are dealing with it. Things don't look good by this measure.
Seth Rich.
Wait a minute. Using an RX modulator, I might be able to conduct a mainframe cell direct and hack the uplink to the download.
/hackerman
It means that with the right computer algorithms, I can hack you back in time. Just like a time machine.
Putin has fleas.
Classifying a populous as comprised of either liberal or republican, then making sweeping generalisations about 1 group of the other, is something that is very difficult not to openly ridicule. It's the workings of the mind of a small child.
They jailed the guy who took photos of a sub, let HRC off and commuted another's sentence all the while bashing hacking and never doing much about the ha KS of the last 6 years (100s of thousands fed staff info stolen etc).
The way to void First Past Post in a party supported system is to rid it of the problem, and the problem is the Parties themselves.
Good luck with that. Got any other suggestions for things that will never happen in our lifetime? Maybe if you finish work on that Infinite Improbability Drive...
I like how they timed the "We are not going to prosecute her" "Oh wait, we are" happened. It changed just enough peoples mind.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Your president doesn't care about right and wrong, just votes. You have to admit he is an asshole!
He should probably take the citizenship. The actions of this government in reducing the rights available of their citizens do not represent me. I have given them 19 years of my life, and they have returned the favor with criminal actions, lack of transparency, and a complete disregard for the constitution.
It seems this nation is full of people with the minds of small children according to you. Since every politician acts in the way you describe, it seems that this country is run by people with the minds of small children. Are you sure you want to make that view known with all these immature minds around?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I think your sentence does not mean what you meant it to mean. Your sentence says that none of the candidates were poor choices.
I agree that all of the choices put forth were terrible, which is I believe what you were trying to say. I just assume that the meaning was lost in editing.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Perhaps it also had to do with the fact that Comey came out and said that she broke the law, but no prosecutor would take the case? There have been people who were prosecuted for self reporting an accidental classified leakage, while Hillary reportedly had 100's, while she gets off with nothing. This is wrong.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press...
She also was pretty damn sleezy to even run the server in the first place. She did it to get around FOIA requests, and is still in violation of the Records Act as she has not provided copies of the official records required to be maintained by anyone in a position like the SOS. She claims that the records are maintained because she corresponded with people in the State Department, but the problem is that there have to be emails that were sent not to people at State that there are now no record of.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Well, you can tell yourself that, but it doesn't really fit the reality of how badly Clinton actually lost. Yes, she one the Popular vote, and that victory came from one state (California), which she won by a larger popular vote than she one nationally. This means that Clinton lost popular vote nationally, if California wasn't included.
Now, consider this, California Liberals are not even the same as any other liberals out there. They actually think they define culture via Hollywood. Which is why they can't fathom Trump as President, and why they are going ape-shit crazy. They are devoid of any reality checks that aren't part of the California Echo Chamber. And quite frankly, that is a large part of the reason she lost (not the Russians).
I live in California, and even people here are getting tired of the ultra-liberal bullshit that is going on. Hey, more taxes to spend on stupid projects that everyone "wants" for everyone else but themselves (HSR), that go way over budget and project to have ongoing deficits long after it is built. Why? Some liberal fascination with trains.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Trumps agenda, HA, and what would that agenda be? I don't even think trump has an agenda. He just spitballs it and makes shit up as he goes.
Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
Please name one person who was prosecuted for accidental classified leakage (and I'm not counting the guy who agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor but didn't have to in the end, since he wasn't actually prosecuted). I haven't found one. Every time someone has given me a name or enough information to identify the person, either they deliberately mishandled classified material or they were not prosecuted. Comey was correct: people who did what Clinton did are not criminally prosecuted, and it would have been a deliberate political act to make her the first.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
http://www.thepoliticalinsider...
Marine Corps. Major Caught Sending Classified Documents to Superiors Using Personal Email: Maj. Jason Brezler was dismissed from the Marine Corps when he “accidentally took home 14 documents on his personal computer, some of which were classified.” According to the report, Brezler was “in a graduate school class when he received an urgent email from military officials in Afghanistan and sent a specific document in response, using his personal email account.”
One other one didn't lead to prosecution, but loss of job and clearance:
State Department Official Fired and Security Clearance Revoked After Linking to Classified Wikileaks Document: Peter Van Buren, a foreign service officer for Hillary’s State Department, was fired and his security clearance revoked for quoting a Wikileaks document AFTER publishing a book critical of Clinton. In fact, the Washington Post reported that one of his firing infractions was “showing ‘bad judgement’ by criticizing Clinton and then-Rep. Michele Bachmann on his blog.”
There is another one that is less clear in that article. Classified information was found on a work computer at the guys house, unknown if accidental or intentional, and he was pardoned for it as he was chummy with Bill Clinton.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
There were a whole lot of lies going on about Clinton and Trump both. Some days it seemed that a quarter of Snopes.com's front page stories were debunking things said about Clinton and another quarter debunking things said about Trump.
The difference was that nobody seemed to care about Trump's lies or anything negative said about Trump.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I think it was simply a case of picking your poison. I'm not sure what a Trump presidency will be like but I do have some hope for a few things. I knew for sure what a Hilliary presidency was going to look like and knew I wanted to avoid it at all costs. I took the Orange Pill.
This is one of the Chairman Mao fan club from the Obama administration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Pardon the fact that it's Glen Beck but he's just showing video of her speech. The part where she gushes over Chairman Mao and calls him one of her two favorite political philosophers starts about 25 seconds or so into the video. Mind you, I don't begrudge her the right to follow Chairman Mao's philosophy as she is after all a liberal democrat and that's pretty much the party line. In fact I found her honesty very refreshing. My problems with Mao aren't his socialism as much as his methods. There are a few other references attributed to other members of the Obama administration. Unlike Beck, (I find him funny when he's not being preachy) I don't really give a crap about the Chairman Mao praise. I understand she's not talking about rounding up members of the opposition and having them shot she just loves communist theory. The thing is that when Trump "praises" Putin by calling him a strong leader the DNC propaganda arm of NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN and The NYT all went ape shit. It's silly and stupid.
Mind you, I don't begrudge her the right to follow Chairman Mao's philosophy as she is after all a liberal democrat and that's pretty much the party line.
I supposed that Trump keeping a copy of "Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler on his nightstand would mean that everyone in the Republican Party are neo-Nazis and that's the alt-right party line.
The thing is that when Trump "praises" Putin by calling him a strong leader the DNC propaganda arm of NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN and The NYT all went ape shit. It's silly and stupid.
I disagree. Putin is a threat to the USA. Putin is the only person that Trump has ever respected and praise. It could be that Trump admires dictators who are able to get things done. As an old cold warrior, I find that suspicious as hell and the media isn't doing enough to expose it.
I was trying to keep optimistic about a Trump presidency, and then I saw his Cabinet picks. I now see no reason to change my original conclusion that we're screwed.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
In other words, you completely agree with me that nobody's been criminally prosecuted for doing what Clinton did. I'm aware of cases of losing a job and/or a security clearance, but not ones involving criminal prosecution. I'm not sure exactly who your last reference was, but if it's who I think it is he agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor, but didn't have to (Clinton probably had something to do with that). That's not criminal prosecution.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You seem to be under the impression that the incoming administration will be bound by the constitution.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Most of these things aren't publicised, so I can't point to it for you. The government loves their secrets.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
the debate questions were not part of the hack. Do try to keep up. I understand you are a trump supporter, so I will type slowly.
We know about the debate questions being leaked because they were in Podesta's emails you fucking moron.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
I've heard Trump praise many people. I'd bet real money he doesn't own a copy of Mein Kampf although I've know lots of people who have read it as it was in my High School's library. I doubt that Trump will be nearly as great as his followers thing or nearly as bad as his detractors think. Regardless we have 2 other branches of government to keep him from getting truly outrageous. Putin doesn't have the power to be a threat to the US. His country is already suffering under sanctions now.
His agriculture pick was great. Purdue was a farmer and is big in agri-business. He at least has an understanding of farmers and farming. I like Mattis a lot. Not sure about the Secretary of State. I guess we'll see what we see.
Seriously? The Clinton's are criminals? Get a grip. Don the Con is a sleazy dirtbag with a long history of unethical dealings and the shadiest of backgrounds.