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New Senate Bill Would Give US Grads Preference In Receiving H-1B Visas (computerworld.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the special-treatment dept.

dcblogs quotes a report from Computerworld: A new bill in Congress would give foreign students who graduate from U.S. schools priority in getting an H-1B visa. The legislation also "explicitly prohibits" the replacement of American workers by visa holders. This bill, the H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act, was announced Thursday by its co-sponsors, U.S. Senators Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), longtime allies on H-1B reform. Grassley is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which gives this bill an immediate big leg up in the legislative process. This legislation would end the annual random distribution, via a lottery, of H-1B visas, and replace it with a system to give priority to certain types of students. Foreign nationals in the best position to get one of the 85,000 H-1B visas issued annually will have earned an advanced degree from a U.S. school, have a well-paying job offer, and have preferred skills. The specific skills weren't identified, but will likely be STEM-related. "Congress created these programs to complement America's high-skilled workforce, not replace it," said Grassley, in a statement. "Unfortunately, some companies are trying to exploit the programs by cutting American workers for cheaper labor."

43 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. It's a start! by Notabadguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's a small start on a long needed road of reform. At least they're having the discussion.

    1. Re:It's a start! by hambone142 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldn't it be better to give job priorities to U.S. citizens who qualify for the jobs?

    2. Re:It's a start! by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since the bill supposedly "explicitly prohibits the replacement of American workers by visa holders" this would presumably not be necessary. If Americans are able and willing to do the job, companies shouldn't even be allowed to hire H1B visa holders. Of course, that has never stopped companies from finding a million loopholes and tricks to get around this in the past.

      It all comes down to how strictly and consistently the law is actually enforced. Send a few execs to prison for trying to cheat the system and the rest would quickly fall in line. But, campaign promises aside, the odds of THAT happening are slim to none.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      What I've seen in the past is first identifying the candidate, then writing the job description to uniquely identify that candidate.

    4. Re:It's a start! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      What happens when Americans refuse to move to the jobs? Both here and on Reddit are multiple people "I can't find any ____ jobs near Seattle" and when they are suggested moving they can't because they have a bag of excuses. H1Bs are already moving to a new country and don't care they're taking a job in Iowa.

    5. Re:It's a start! by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that's one of many tricks used. Another is to post jobs with ridiculous requirements that make them basically impossible to fill, then running to Congress begging for more visas and citing these unfilled positions as evidence that there aren't enough qualified American workers available.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:It's a start! by MountainLogic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Four steps would do much to clean up the problems:
      1) Raise the salary floor to $100k from the current $60k
      2) Force employers to pay a 10% tax on that salary
      3) Create a bidding structure based on the minimum guaranteed salary those employees are willing to pay those H1B employees. Currently there is a lottery for employers to get these slots. That should stop. If an employer is willing to guaranteed a $200k salary then they go ahead of the bottom feeders only willing to pay $100k in the order of allocations
      3) End jobbing out these employees in body shops.
      We are only supposed to be bringing in the most needed skills and those with the highest demand skills would be paid the highest (or at least according to knee jerk capitalist dogma). I would expect this to bring in a lot more cardiac surgeons and a lot fewer share point admins.

    7. Re:It's a start! by nobuddy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And then filling those positions with low level inexperienced H1b visa workers.

      My proposal- in order to get an H1b you must run an ad for 3 months on the Dept of Immigration site with your requirements. All applicants go to their review official there as well as the company. If the company cannot find a qualified applicant- and immigration agrees, then they may fill the role with an H1b applicant.
      However, if they cannot find an H1b applicant that meets the posted requirements, they must reeview the US applicants along with immigration BEFORE they select a less qualified H1b applicant. Any US applicants that have the same qualifications as the H1b applicant must be hired instead.

      And, the real kicker- the H1b applicant must be paid the same amount they would have paid the US applicant of the same qualification. Enforced via industry standard/average salaries for the region.

    8. Re:It's a start! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Companies can move out of silly valley. If your most important resource is qualified people, and the qualified people don't want to go where you are with your overpriced housing and pretentious lifestyle, maybe you'll have to open a branch office where the qualified people are.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    9. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's ridiculous. People in other countries get college for free or at a much lower cost than they do in the US. That's a pretty freaking huge advantage to have when you can afford to work for much less than what the natives are working for.

      Also, this kind of arrogant attitude is why the US is going down the crapper. Are, you really, sure that you're wiling to put up with the crap that the visa holders put up with to get and keep those jobs? Sure, on paper, they're probably being paid well and treated well, but they're in a much worse position when it comes to agreeing to take on extra work and they don't have the option of changing jobs the way that a citizen would or even somebody with a green card.

      Bottom line here is that if you think you're able to compete with them, you're probably wrong. Or, you've got no other job prospects and an ego that can't comprehend the fact that just working harder isn't always the solution to every problem.

    10. Re: It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It happens, but the results are shitty code and a hard time monitor the work being done. It's something that's done by corporations that don't know what they're doing and are just looking for the boost to stock prices that comes from screwing the workers over.

      That's not to say that there aren't any quality coders overseas, there are, but if you're offshoring things on the basis of saving money, you're not going to be hiring any of them. You're going to be hiring the ones that are willing to make ridiculous claims and probably not actually follow through properly. Not to mention the fact that they probably don't speak English as their first language and you've got massive cultural differences to navigate.

      People that offshore for the purposes of saving money, rarely save money in the long run. Yes, it might cost less to hire a Chinese or Indian programmer to do the work, but they're all the way over there and you still have to check to make sure that it works properly.

    11. Re:It's a start! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      and after seeing the shithole that is most of india, the extreme corruption (that makes the US look like saints) they'll be back in a flash.

      bring it on! the sooner they experience this, the better.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    12. Re:It's a start! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      4) create a secret shopper program where well-qualified 'testers' apply for jobs and if they are turned down, an OFFICIAL (and expensive, if the company is found to be fraudulently rejecting locals) investigation would occur. one that has PUBLIC RESULTS POSTED for anyone to see. public shaming, big-time, for violators.

      without a secret shopper program, there's no good way to keep the fucking companies honest. they'll continue to pay lawyers to find loopholes. but if they are publicly shamed, they'll stop. guaranteed!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:It's a start! by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Do it in one step: start assigning a $200,000 excise tax for each H1-B worker. And do it before any regular compensation or benefits - this way when the company claims there aren't any Americans who can do the job, we'll know they aren't being too lazy to recruit or too greedy to pay for what they want to get.

    14. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are either young, unexperienced or just delusional. When companies decide to switch some or 100% of their IT workforce to H1Bs, it's usually decided by the CEO and other execs/MBAs who:
      a. Do not know about your "mad coding skillz"
      b. Do not understand how "good" you think you are
      c. Do not give a shit about your existence
      d. Are only concerned about the $$$ (your_pay - h1b_pay)

      You think all the guys who got canned at Disney are dumber than your holiness?

      Finally, good luck with your "mad skillz" when applying for a job when your resume is thrown in the Recycle Bin simply because you are NOT an H1B.

    15. Re:It's a start! by drewsup · · Score: 2

      This +1....the late Bill Hicks had a great routine on this for illegals, make it against the law to pay them any less than an american worker, removes 99% of the incentive to hire illegals, the only thing left is work ethic, which most of us have in spades.

    16. Re:It's a start! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Companies make sure that there are not any qualified US candidates by requiring foreign language skills, so liaise with their customers and teams in India etc. And even if the salary was the same as for a US applicant, that person is still reliant on continued employment to stay in the US.

      So in addition to your changes, they should simply ban foreign language requirements (too hard to judge fairly) and change the H1B visa so that holders are not deported as soon as their employment ends, e.g. they get a year grace period if fired.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America first. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Regardless of what you think about him, we should thank President Trump for again making it acceptable to put America and Americans first when it comes to policy decisions.

    For too long now political correctness, forced on the nation and its people by leftists, has prevented American interests from coming first and foremost.

    Thank you, President Trump, for taking away the stigma that leftists have associated with putting America first.

    Although this reform isn't as good as completely eliminating these awful visas, it's clearly better than leaving the system as it is. But even this degree of reform would have been unthinkable without President Trump making Americans realize that they don't have to hurt themselves just to benefit foreigners.

  3. Students? by nbritton · · Score: 2

    Why are students getting H-1B Visas? Isn't this program for professionals who have expertise that can't be found locally?

    1. Re:Students? by RabidTimmy · · Score: 3, Informative

      A lot of foreign students are pursuing PhDs. If the university is acting correctly, they should be experts in their fields.

    2. Re:Students? by ghoul · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its for skills that cant be found locally. The latest cutting edge research is done in universities and as the majority of grad students are foreigners if companies want people with reseaerch experience at the cutting edge they need foreign students. Students are getting H1Bs because the US immigration system is so screwed that it has no specific visa for Students who have graduated from US universities to stay and work in US (every other country which has a large education industry has a student work visa post graduation) so they use the H1B which was meant for Models.
      Also mostly students are now spending 2-3 years in OPT so by the time they are on H1B they have the skills and the experience.

      All this would not be needed if the Comprehensive Immigration Reform under Bush had got passed which had basically said every student graduating in STEM would have a Greencard stapled to their Diploma.

      GCs are always better than H1Bs as they have the same freedom to work for anyone and do not depress the market like H1s do.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    3. Re:Students? by imgod2u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not students. People who graduated from a US University. For instance someone who came to grad school (or undergrad) and just graduated and is looking for a job.

    4. Re:Students? by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Why are students getting H-1B Visas? Isn't this program for professionals who have expertise that can't be found locally?

      Good question. Actually, H1B is something that both foreign grad students from US universities - F1 visa holders - have to get once they've completed their OPT (Optional Practical Training). In other words, the 1-2 year period that they are allowed to remain in the US to work - that's under the extended provision of an F1 visa, but after that, they need to get an H1B

      Which is the same visa that any foreign worker who's never studied in the US would have to get, if his employer wants to send him here. And that is a part of the issue that Trump ran into last year, when he mentioned how he wanted foreign graduates of US universities to be allowed to stay, even while cracking down on H1Bs. Point is that he was drawing a distinction b/w 2 categories of people, who happen to need the same category of visas in order to live and work in the US

      Instead, changing the visa of graduates to something else, or giving them a pathway to a green card is a better approach. That way, the 2 categories of people are not conflated. Foreign students who graduate from US universities do have the expertise US companies need; OTOH, foreign workers just happen to meet the wage desires of their employers, rather than the legal requirements of H1B visas

  4. Does this help? by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The H-!B program prohibited the replacement of American workers before, but ways were found to get around it. This bill is really saying the same thing with the addition of foreign students getting preference for them? Maybe I'm being a negative nellie here but it seems that this bill doesn't do anything extra than the original bill did except give domestic STEM workers more competition to get into good schools due to an influx of students looking for the H-1B ride.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re: Does this help? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      But it doesn't say they will HAVE to have a degree, only that people with degrees will get preferential treatment. Nothing else has changed. This looks like it makes the situation worse, not better. What about this precisely stops TaTa from staffing up with H1-Bs and replacing an entire IT department?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  5. Preference? Don't they have that already? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to existing H1-B policies, every year up to 20,000 foreign students who receive a degree from a US university can obtain an H1-B, exempt from the main cap.

    So what's different here?

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  6. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think it was political correctness that led to the H1B issue. I think it was probably corporate/rich person greed.

  7. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The sad thing is that patriotism and nationalism have become dirty words on the left. It's even worse in Europe, though. Members of the "Britain First" movement are being arrested and persecuted pretty heavily. Shit, you can get into serious trouble there just for selling stuff with the British flag on it. Such is the insane world we live in.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  8. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    She had already assured business leaders that she would continue the program unchanged. And she would have likely also labeled anyone opposing the visas as "racists" for daring to question them.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  9. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Trump and his new cabinet will soon put an end to corporate greed as well.

  10. Why give them H1Bs? by mark_reh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not give them a green card? If you give them H1Bs they are still slaves and will still be paid less than American workers. This isn't an improvement, it's window dressing. It won't change anything except increase the competition/corruption to get into US schools.

  11. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by eepok · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Patriotism has never been a dirty word. Misuse of the words "patriot" and "patriotism", though, has stained the words to the point where they're immediately associated with something being covered up (see: USA PATRIOT Act).

    Nationalism, though, has been a dirty word since the '40s when nationalism's big brother "Fascism" became a bit of an issue for people living in the countries immediately adjacent.

    And the world's not insane. It's just that people disagree. It has always been that way and it will always be that way. If you want it to feel less "insane" spend some time understanding why people make the decisions they do. Once you understand, they're not so much "crazy" as they are in different circumstances.

  12. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

    I'll believe it when I see it. So far he's putting his billionaire friends first.

    And please tell me what these American interest are that the Republicans cater to and Democrats ignore. In my adult life, it's been the left that has more routinely focused on domestic social issues.

    Trump puts Trump first. That is why his family and his friends are getting government roles. My biggest worry is that the country sacrifices long term stability for short term growth.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  13. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I vote for Trump because I believed there was about a 30% chance he would actually deliver on his promises to stand up to the corporations in favor of the working class. The odds were, and still are, in favor of him being full of shit on those promises. But that 30% chance is still better than the 0% chance that Hillary would have ever stood up for the working class.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  14. Re:Thank you Donald! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

    yeah right. trump, THE corporate whore is going to fight against his own kind.

    and pigs will fly, soon, too.

    I'd expect clinton to fight business greed more than a REPUBLICAN who is ONLY a rich fucker and has no skills other than inheriting a lot and failing, constantly.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  15. Double salary for like Linus or Tim Berners-Lee by raymorris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Raising the minimum H1-B salary from $60K to $150K would mean we could still bring in people like like Linus Torvalds or Tim Berners-Lee, who truly can't be found in the US. People who are truly special. A $150K minimum would eliminate the issue ofb replacing US workers with cheaper imports.

    1. Re:Double salary for like Linus or Tim Berners-Lee by m00sh · · Score: 2

      Raising the minimum H1-B salary from $60K to $150K would mean we could still bring in people like like Linus Torvalds or Tim Berners-Lee, who truly can't be found in the US. People who are truly special. A $150K minimum would eliminate the issue ofb replacing US workers with cheaper imports.

      Someone like Linus or Tim would not come on an H1B visa.

      They would come with the green card already in their names. There is a separate process for people who are beneficial for national interests that bypasses H1B.

      H1B is for skills that cannot be found locally from someone who is looking for employment, the emphasis being locally and with someone looking for employment. It is not for all across the US. It is not about someone locally who has the skill but is already working and not looking for employment.

      Company A needs something done but there is nobody locally available to do the job. That is where H1B comes in. It is not a visa for importing exceptional individuals. Those are EB-1 and EB-2 NIW which is directly green card and not H1B.

  16. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not a question of disagreement. It's a question of utter dishonesty on your part.

    Members of the "Britain First" movement are being arrested and persecuted

    He was arrested for breaching his bail conditions. that's not persecution by any measure.

    Shit, you can get into serious trouble there just for selling stuff with the British flag on it

    Saying "serious trouble" strongly implies trouble with the authorities. No such thing happened. A few people let him know their dumbass opinions in person and on face book. OH NOES EVERY RIGHTWING NUTJOB PANIC!!

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  17. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Describing something or someone as racist or sexist is an entirely legitimate criticism if true. Complaining that people are calling out your racism/sexism is just an attempt to silence critics and an attempt to use social pressure to stifle free speech.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  18. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    Patriotism has become the first recourse of the scoundrel. It's the kind of anti-politically-correct. Anything politically correct is automatically bad, anything patriotic is automatically good. It's a cheap bit of rhetoric, a bogus argument.

    Real patriots, like Edward Snowden, are denounced and punished. Only faux patriotism is allowed.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  19. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was born a white male and no-one has ever accused me of being racist, except for some idiots on the alt-right who said I hated white males (i.e. myself). I just mocked them, rather than getting all upset and demanding a safe space away from the bad words.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  20. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by jemmyw · · Score: 2

    I don't know your nationality, but I'm British and here is my view on it: For a long time British people have been very wary of overt nationalism for a number of reasons that have left a mark on our subconscious. Our view of WWII plays into it. Our view of America and overt patriotism too plays into it, somewhere between thinking it crass and feeling that we can't compete so won't bother. Then there's the way the nation is split up into countries, which can make that feeling of identity a little vague.

    Patriotism - it's just not a word that's in common use in the same way. It evokes in me a sense of history, or the feeling that the context is American. It's not a dirty word, just not one we use.

    "Britain First" were just another bunch of thugs, of which we get a roundabout of many. The guy selling stuff with the British flag on it didn't get into any trouble at all. Some people off the street commented on the name of his shop for reasons connected with the above. You're allowed to do that in Britain, comment on things. I mean he called it "Really British". That's not a very British thing to do is it.

  21. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by mjwx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Patriotism has never been a dirty word. Misuse of the words "patriot" and "patriotism", though, has stained the words to the point where they're immediately associated with something being covered up (see: USA PATRIOT Act).

    Nationalism, though, has been a dirty word since the '40s when nationalism's big brother "Fascism" became a bit of an issue for people living in the countries immediately adjacent.

    This. Having pride in your country because its something to be proud of is patriotism, a patriot strives to improve his country.

    Demanding your country is recognised as superior without merit is nationalism. A nationalist seeks to belittle other countries to make his own look better.

    A patriot does not mind people criticising their country, a Nationalist or Jingoist does not permit any questions about his beliefs.

    I just got back from Holland. contrary to popular American views is actually a nation of people who are very proud to be Dutch, I think the confusion comes in the way the Dutch express their patriotism. Everywhere I went I was asked "You are from England, how are you enjoying Holland". Hell, even the Dutch customs officer asked me how my trip was on the way out of Schipol. The Dutch take great pride in their hospitality and friendliness. Because of this, they are actually quite open to criticism, seeing it as a means of improvement (or at the worst, know when a critisim is not valid and should be ignored).

    Even though I'm technically an Australian, I really dont mind being called English (I live there now). It happens all the time in the US, I consistently am asked "What part of England are you from" (which should be "which" part) and respond with "I'm from this small island a bit south of England called Australia". Well I guess I cant use that one any more. Sorry for the Grandpa Simpson story, and yes I did have an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time.

    So it's a shame that I have to use my own country as an example of nationalism, particularly as nationalism pretending to be patriotism. Traditionally, for an Australian to be proud of Australia, we were proud of its accomplishments, accomplishments that often outshone larger nations. It was always an easy going pride, the idea was that you didn't have to wave a flag or recite a poem to be a proud Australian. The Australian way used to be giving people a fair go, being kind and generous to your friends. Sure it was always cliquey but nowhere near the level of outright xenophobia you see today. The people in Australia who label themselves "patriots" are nothing but xenophobic ultra-nationalists who have adopted ironically un-Australian sayings like "Fuck off, we're full", make barely coherent arguments about "boat people" who are allegedly "destroying the Australian way of life" and "taking jobs from Hard working Australians" (lets ignore that the speaker has probably been on the dole for the last 4 years).

    Sure I know plenty of people who like Australia, who would like to express their pride, but are too scared of being associated with the likes of Reclaim Australia because... because to be frankly Australian about it, they aren't racists fuckwits like One Nation and Reclaim Australia.

    I see the same thing here now I've lived in England for a while. There's lots to celebrate about English culture (not the food, but I digress) however nationalists like the EDL (English Defence Leauge) make it hard for ordinary English to do this because they deliberately try to weld being a proud Englishmen to a xenophobic ideology... And I think that's a bloody shame.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.