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New Senate Bill Would Give US Grads Preference In Receiving H-1B Visas (computerworld.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the special-treatment dept.

dcblogs quotes a report from Computerworld: A new bill in Congress would give foreign students who graduate from U.S. schools priority in getting an H-1B visa. The legislation also "explicitly prohibits" the replacement of American workers by visa holders. This bill, the H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act, was announced Thursday by its co-sponsors, U.S. Senators Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), longtime allies on H-1B reform. Grassley is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which gives this bill an immediate big leg up in the legislative process. This legislation would end the annual random distribution, via a lottery, of H-1B visas, and replace it with a system to give priority to certain types of students. Foreign nationals in the best position to get one of the 85,000 H-1B visas issued annually will have earned an advanced degree from a U.S. school, have a well-paying job offer, and have preferred skills. The specific skills weren't identified, but will likely be STEM-related. "Congress created these programs to complement America's high-skilled workforce, not replace it," said Grassley, in a statement. "Unfortunately, some companies are trying to exploit the programs by cutting American workers for cheaper labor."

116 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. It's a start! by Notabadguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's a small start on a long needed road of reform. At least they're having the discussion.

    1. Re:It's a start! by hambone142 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldn't it be better to give job priorities to U.S. citizens who qualify for the jobs?

    2. Re:It's a start! by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since the bill supposedly "explicitly prohibits the replacement of American workers by visa holders" this would presumably not be necessary. If Americans are able and willing to do the job, companies shouldn't even be allowed to hire H1B visa holders. Of course, that has never stopped companies from finding a million loopholes and tricks to get around this in the past.

      It all comes down to how strictly and consistently the law is actually enforced. Send a few execs to prison for trying to cheat the system and the rest would quickly fall in line. But, campaign promises aside, the odds of THAT happening are slim to none.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      What I've seen in the past is first identifying the candidate, then writing the job description to uniquely identify that candidate.

    4. Re:It's a start! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      What happens when Americans refuse to move to the jobs? Both here and on Reddit are multiple people "I can't find any ____ jobs near Seattle" and when they are suggested moving they can't because they have a bag of excuses. H1Bs are already moving to a new country and don't care they're taking a job in Iowa.

    5. Re:It's a start! by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that's one of many tricks used. Another is to post jobs with ridiculous requirements that make them basically impossible to fill, then running to Congress begging for more visas and citing these unfilled positions as evidence that there aren't enough qualified American workers available.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:It's a start! by MountainLogic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Four steps would do much to clean up the problems:
      1) Raise the salary floor to $100k from the current $60k
      2) Force employers to pay a 10% tax on that salary
      3) Create a bidding structure based on the minimum guaranteed salary those employees are willing to pay those H1B employees. Currently there is a lottery for employers to get these slots. That should stop. If an employer is willing to guaranteed a $200k salary then they go ahead of the bottom feeders only willing to pay $100k in the order of allocations
      3) End jobbing out these employees in body shops.
      We are only supposed to be bringing in the most needed skills and those with the highest demand skills would be paid the highest (or at least according to knee jerk capitalist dogma). I would expect this to bring in a lot more cardiac surgeons and a lot fewer share point admins.

    7. Re:It's a start! by nobuddy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And then filling those positions with low level inexperienced H1b visa workers.

      My proposal- in order to get an H1b you must run an ad for 3 months on the Dept of Immigration site with your requirements. All applicants go to their review official there as well as the company. If the company cannot find a qualified applicant- and immigration agrees, then they may fill the role with an H1b applicant.
      However, if they cannot find an H1b applicant that meets the posted requirements, they must reeview the US applicants along with immigration BEFORE they select a less qualified H1b applicant. Any US applicants that have the same qualifications as the H1b applicant must be hired instead.

      And, the real kicker- the H1b applicant must be paid the same amount they would have paid the US applicant of the same qualification. Enforced via industry standard/average salaries for the region.

    8. Re:It's a start! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Companies can move out of silly valley. If your most important resource is qualified people, and the qualified people don't want to go where you are with your overpriced housing and pretentious lifestyle, maybe you'll have to open a branch office where the qualified people are.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    9. Re:It's a start! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      don't care they're taking a job in Iowa. more like can't find some one in the Bay area for 40K.

    10. Re:It's a start! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Companies can move out of silly valley.

      If you force companies to move out of SV, a lot them will move to Mumbai instead of Omaha.

    11. Re:It's a start! by saloomy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no thanks. I'll compete with anything any other programmer can muster. If they provide a better value proposition, then I should reconsider my competitive advantages and lower my requisite salary. I do not need the government dictating my wage to me. I didn't vote communist, ever.

      I'm a US Citizen

    12. Re:It's a start! by chipschap · · Score: 1

      Good, please stay in Iran.

    13. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Great! Now if only we could get everyone else who shares your particular if some what blinkered world view to leave the US the country would be better off. I am still waiting for all those who claimed they would leave the US if Trump won to actually leave.

    14. Re: It's a start! by ranton · · Score: 1

      4) Hope the job doesn't move to another country.

      I believe that's a bluff and I'm prepared to call it. If they were going to do that, it'd already have been done.

      What are you talking about? Offshoring of IT work already does happen, and will continue to happen. If they haven't done it already, it is because of the cost of doing it (cost in either money, effort, and/or quality). The American workforce may still benefit from limiting H1B visas, but it will almost certainly have an effect of increasing the amount of offshoring. The hope is we offshore less jobs than we save, but it's far from a guarantee.

      Considering it's nearly impossible to find good software developers these days, I find it hard to believe things would be better with even less software developers in our local economy.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    15. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's easier than that. Just require that they pay an extra $30k on top of whatever the prevailing wages are along with the customary benefits they offer.

      You'd find very quickly that these kind of shenanigans stop, and probably have fewer complaints about the visa holders dragging wages down as having a lot of visa holders would have the effect of increasing the prevailing wages.

    16. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's ridiculous. People in other countries get college for free or at a much lower cost than they do in the US. That's a pretty freaking huge advantage to have when you can afford to work for much less than what the natives are working for.

      Also, this kind of arrogant attitude is why the US is going down the crapper. Are, you really, sure that you're wiling to put up with the crap that the visa holders put up with to get and keep those jobs? Sure, on paper, they're probably being paid well and treated well, but they're in a much worse position when it comes to agreeing to take on extra work and they don't have the option of changing jobs the way that a citizen would or even somebody with a green card.

      Bottom line here is that if you think you're able to compete with them, you're probably wrong. Or, you've got no other job prospects and an ego that can't comprehend the fact that just working harder isn't always the solution to every problem.

    17. Re: It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It happens, but the results are shitty code and a hard time monitor the work being done. It's something that's done by corporations that don't know what they're doing and are just looking for the boost to stock prices that comes from screwing the workers over.

      That's not to say that there aren't any quality coders overseas, there are, but if you're offshoring things on the basis of saving money, you're not going to be hiring any of them. You're going to be hiring the ones that are willing to make ridiculous claims and probably not actually follow through properly. Not to mention the fact that they probably don't speak English as their first language and you've got massive cultural differences to navigate.

      People that offshore for the purposes of saving money, rarely save money in the long run. Yes, it might cost less to hire a Chinese or Indian programmer to do the work, but they're all the way over there and you still have to check to make sure that it works properly.

    18. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He was more likely talking about Sweden.

    19. Re:It's a start! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      and after seeing the shithole that is most of india, the extreme corruption (that makes the US look like saints) they'll be back in a flash.

      bring it on! the sooner they experience this, the better.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    20. Re:It's a start! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      4) create a secret shopper program where well-qualified 'testers' apply for jobs and if they are turned down, an OFFICIAL (and expensive, if the company is found to be fraudulently rejecting locals) investigation would occur. one that has PUBLIC RESULTS POSTED for anyone to see. public shaming, big-time, for violators.

      without a secret shopper program, there's no good way to keep the fucking companies honest. they'll continue to pay lawyers to find loopholes. but if they are publicly shamed, they'll stop. guaranteed!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    21. Re: It's a start! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      4) Hope the job doesn't move to another country.

      I believe that's a bluff and I'm prepared to call it. If they were going to do that, it'd already have been done.

      What are you talking about? Offshoring of IT work already does happen, and will continue to happen. If they haven't done it already, it is because of the cost of doing it (cost in either money, effort, and/or quality). The American workforce may still benefit from limiting H1B visas, but it will almost certainly have an effect of increasing the amount of offshoring. The hope is we offshore less jobs than we save, but it's far from a guarantee.

      Considering it's nearly impossible to find good software developers these days, I find it hard to believe things would be better with even less software developers in our local economy.

      I think though there are other costs some dumb cost accountants do not consider but good MBA managers will. That is the loss or productivity and communication with a team far removed from the business processes and users and needs of the local corporate headquarters and customers.

      The kind of offshoring is commodity lower value jobs like help desk.

      The problem is when everyone including every other programmer, PM, and now customers are also in India or the Phillipines! It was stupid to outsource to China in 1998 for example. Why? Gee you make widgets. Materials US, parts US, inventory US, shipment costs etc. So to save $1.00 in labor you spend $3.00 in inventory, delays, and inneficiences in supply chain. I laughted at Apple for outsourcing then ... fast forward today:
      1. Materials now in CHina
      2. Suppliers across the street in China
      3. INventory (well 1/3 of your customers are in China anyway) the rest yes is still a cost to ship and store to Europe/America

      If you raise the H1B1 to 100K a year it will now be more cost effective to base EVERYTHING in India., Why? An American is now:
      1. Away from the rest of the INdian coworkers who now make your whole product
      2. Away from Indian PM
      3. Away from now other INdian customers and synergy from industry only made up by Indians
      4. Not part of the business processes anymore as they based where the development is ... now in India only

      No, lets just setup a system where HR has to use department of labor data by county and pay a %20 tax for the same job title and responsibilities as an American one! So a developer makes $80,000? You pay $100,000 for the Indian H1B1 Visa to come over. That way top talent can succeed without outsourcing overseas. Oh and before you all WHINE THEY ARE OUTSOURCING ANYWAY then why are American IT professionals still in demand? It is because western IT professionals who are not help desk are based close to where management, customers, and business processes are. If management is somewhat competent they realize the quality and costs are too high to outsource anything that is not Visio flowchart automated like "Have you tried restarting it ... etc"

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    22. Re:It's a start! by khallow · · Score: 1

      Isn't this the part where all the "free market" believers tell us that "companies never pay taxes, they just pass them on to their customers"?

      So far, we've got Trump proposing a 35% tax on US companies that build products overseas and Slashdot fools telling us that raising taxes on companies will lead to greater employment.

      Did something change with the Trump inauguration that's suddenly made believers in "economic liberty and small government" love taxes?

      Having some people believing in the job protecting power of 35% tariffs and other people believing in the free market just isn't working out since clearly there can only be one opinion for a huge group of people whose only characteristic is that they frequent a website. The solution is obvious. Determine what your opinion is on the subject. That'll nail it down for everyone.

    23. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      4) create a secret shopper program where well-qualified 'testers' apply for jobs and if they are turned down, an OFFICIAL (and expensive, if the company is found to be fraudulently rejecting locals) investigation would occur. one that has PUBLIC RESULTS POSTED for anyone to see. public shaming, big-time, for violators.

      without a secret shopper program, there's no good way to keep the fucking companies honest. they'll continue to pay lawyers to find loopholes. but if they are publicly shamed, they'll stop. guaranteed!

      How about one better- just set up a system where if I apply for a job that a company could possibly hire an H1B, then the company must provide me and the govt. detailed paperwork explaining fully and clearly why I should not get the job. And part of the system would include a mechanism where I can tell the govt. that I have applied for X job and want followup- I want full complete responses, complete copies of evaluation forms, test results, etc.

      Frankly the whole of HR is a broken as anything in modern society. They hire for all the wrong reasons, not having evaluated a candidate's actual performance doing the job they are hiring for.

    24. Re:It's a start! by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Do it in one step: start assigning a $200,000 excise tax for each H1-B worker. And do it before any regular compensation or benefits - this way when the company claims there aren't any Americans who can do the job, we'll know they aren't being too lazy to recruit or too greedy to pay for what they want to get.

    25. Re:It's a start! by dougg76 · · Score: 1

      Maybe they will consider allowing people to work remotely in the US. It might take a few years to turn the trend around, but more young people might even consider a career in tech (or whatever) if they hear it is in high demand. Maybe companies will have to stop with their retarded tech interviews. I don't mind competition, but there should be a even playing field. Hell, maybe they will have reason to keep older workers.

      --
      I laugh at inappropriate times.
    26. Re:It's a start! by ZenShadow · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you'd have one hell of an expensive secret shopper, since that person would also have to actually qualify for the job he's interviewing for in order to pass the interview...

      --
      -- sigs cause cancer.
    27. Re:It's a start! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are either young, unexperienced or just delusional. When companies decide to switch some or 100% of their IT workforce to H1Bs, it's usually decided by the CEO and other execs/MBAs who:
      a. Do not know about your "mad coding skillz"
      b. Do not understand how "good" you think you are
      c. Do not give a shit about your existence
      d. Are only concerned about the $$$ (your_pay - h1b_pay)

      You think all the guys who got canned at Disney are dumber than your holiness?

      Finally, good luck with your "mad skillz" when applying for a job when your resume is thrown in the Recycle Bin simply because you are NOT an H1B.

    28. Re:It's a start! by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      If you can't find any ___ jobs in Seattle then you are basically unhireable, and it has nothing to do with H1Bs. Seattle is the hottest market in the US, if you can't get a job there you are eminently unqualified.

    29. Re:It's a start! by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      I am very pro H1B and I agree with most of these.

      1) The key point: Silicon Valley companies are paying 6 figures out of college for top talent. So for someone to be worth importing (and I believe many are), obviously $100k should be a minimum.

      2) Paying a 10% tax? Maybe for 1 year, since it costs at least $10k to hire someone (probably also from out of the country, but at least they are putting their money where their mouth is when claiming there are no equivalent candidates (which I believe is often true!).

      3) Bidding? The problem is if you limit the VISAs it just turns it into an oligopoly where Google, etc steals all of the top-top talent and no one even gets the rest. Bidding only works if you open it up to the full free market, someone needs to get the 2nd round draft pick who eventually kicks everyone's ass.

      4 - or 3.2?!?) Cardiac surgeons. Yes! That's the exact problem. There is NO shortage of cardiac surgeons. There are 5x more medical residents that could be cardiac surgeons than get the chance. The problem is we make them all feel like professional and financial failures because they don't become cardiac surgeons...

    30. Re:It's a start! by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be better to give American citizenship to these foreigners with the critical job skills you need? How do you expect to eliminate skills shortages? Or you could have American companies train workers to fill these vacancies.

    31. Re:It's a start! by drewsup · · Score: 2

      This +1....the late Bill Hicks had a great routine on this for illegals, make it against the law to pay them any less than an american worker, removes 99% of the incentive to hire illegals, the only thing left is work ethic, which most of us have in spades.

    32. Re:It's a start! by hidflect · · Score: 1

      Bingo. 5 stars from me FWIW.

    33. Re:It's a start! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Create a bidding structure based on the minimum guaranteed salary those employees are willing to pay those H1B employees.

      Problem with that is that smaller companies which really need foreign talent won't be able to get it. The lottery was created so that the visas wouldn't be simply bought and everyone would have a fair chance regardless of size.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    34. Re:It's a start! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Companies make sure that there are not any qualified US candidates by requiring foreign language skills, so liaise with their customers and teams in India etc. And even if the salary was the same as for a US applicant, that person is still reliant on continued employment to stay in the US.

      So in addition to your changes, they should simply ban foreign language requirements (too hard to judge fairly) and change the H1B visa so that holders are not deported as soon as their employment ends, e.g. they get a year grace period if fired.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    35. Re:It's a start! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Enforced via industry standard/average salaries for the region

      Thanks for the loophole. Let the best paid people get brought down a bit thus bringing the industry average down.

      My proposal- in order to get an H1b you must run an ad for 3 months on the Dept of Immigration site with your requirements.

      Must have exactly 20 months experience with Windows 10. Fortunately in 3 months time we'll get plenty of capable H1B applicants to fill this condition that the US applicants weren't capable of.

    36. Re:It's a start! by ghoul · · Score: 1

      You do realize that most developing countires have higher income inequality than the US. What this means is that while beginning and average salaries are lower , salaries at the higher end are higher than in the US. Cardiac surgeons from India will not move to the US as they earn much more in India than in the US. Same for folks earning 150K plus. The kind of folks who would attract those salaries in the US are getting paid much more (PPP adjusted) in India. Only people at the beginning of their careers are willing to go to the trouble of moving to the US. All this measure would mean is that companies would do more work offshore and reduce their US presence.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    37. Re: It's a start! by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      If it does move to another country, then there wasn't anything you could do about it being done by a foreigner anyway.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    38. Re:It's a start! by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

      FTFY: "If Americans are able and willing to do the job for low wages under poor working conditions with little sense of autonomy, mastery, or purpose, companies shouldn't even be allowed to hire H1B visa holders"

      Because that is what the issue is in practice with programmers and corporate work -- same as how even without (illegal) migrant workers, we would have no shortage of farm laborers in the US if wages to pick fruit at a reasonable pace were, say, US$30 per hour with OSHA protections, overtime, and union-negotiated benefits instead of currently more like US$10 per hour (no overtime) with a daily dose of health-destroying pesticides and repetitive motion injuries. Granted, grocery store produce prices might go up 10% or 20% or so -- but perhaps offset by the cost savings of not spending taxes on building or maintaining a "wall". Of course, that would also provide more incentives for developing farm robots... http://www.nytimes.com/roomfor...

      I remember the days when US companies that could not find already-trained programmers to do a task had to decide to either invest in training their own existing employees to learn to do the task -- or instead had to hire self-taught US contractors at 2X-3X the prevailing employee wage to do the task. Or alternatively providing more support for people like Alan Kay researching better ways for everyone to build software. Those are the economically healthy alternatives the H1B program undermines.

      --
      A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    39. Re:It's a start! by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Enforced via industry standard/average salaries for the region

      Thanks for the loophole. Let the best paid people get brought down a bit thus bringing the industry average down.

      Yeah, it should be just the opposite - H1B salaries should drive the average upward, so a 50% premium on the average, as established by region. After all, those are very hard to fill jobs, so money should be no object, right? It also solves the "minimum salary" for an H1B, by tying it to an equated average that rises, even if it's a little bit, with every H1B hire. Oh, and they get 1 year guaranteed salary, for signing up.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    40. Re:It's a start! by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no thanks. I'll compete with anything any other programmer can muster. If they provide a better value proposition, then I should reconsider my competitive advantages and lower my requisite salary. I do not need the government dictating my wage to me. I didn't vote communist, ever.

      I'm a US Citizen

      You are a US idiot.

      Indian workers do not work for less because they are kind and generous. They work less because they don't have a nanny-state government that steals a lot of their income and uses it to build electrical grids, water treatment systems, inspect chemical plants in Bhopal or pay police officials salaries that discourage them from being for sale to the highest bidder. They don't have an incorruptible system of inspectors to ensure the safety of the food, water, electrical systems or whatever. They're not QUITE the Libertarian paradise where the only thing you have to pay for are the things you buy directly - including protection from your neighbors - but they pay cardboard prices for cardboard infrastructure. And, unlike China, if you poison a batch of food and neglect to pay your bribes, they won't execute you in India.

      They also don't generally have private automobiles, air conditiong or often even refrigerators. Detached housing is for the wealthy - for ordinary workers you jam into a tenement and ride a crowded bus over a jammed-up road that's more pothole than pavement. Or, if you are lucky, your employer sends a shuttle because drivers are cheap and they'd prefer you make it to work without the risks of self-transportation.

      The cost of a single lunch at Burger King would feed you for a week in Bangalore, but I hope you like a steady diet of mostly beans and rice.

      The upshot of this is that in the year 2000, an Indian worker could live decently on ONE TENTH the income of a US worker (about 1 lakh per year of experience, and generally 5 years or less experience). Just try lowering your requisite salary to compete with that.

      Indian workers are not stupid, however and since then, they've been aggressively raising their own requisite salaries to the point that you might have to pay as much as a full eighth as much of a US salary these days.

      Of course, H1-Bs are expected to be paid US competitive wages, so many of them are compensated as much as 75% of what the US worker they replaced would be making. And, since they're used to a more frugal standard of living, they send a lot of what they don't need to live on back home to go into the tax coffers of India, rather than the USA. So that someday India may enjoy universal electricity on a reliable basis, refrigerators in every home and perhaps even air conditioning.

    41. Re:It's a start! by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Yet you live in a mostly-Communist state. Two of the ten planks of the Communist Manifesto were installed in the 30s; specifically, the formation of a central bank (Federal Reserve) and a graduated income tax.

      I'll not resort to name-calling, as it does nothing to further true discourse, yet I'll say you're misinformed, as many are, on the subject of socioeconomic control of a population.

      I suggest you read "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen

      www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/nonedarecallit_conspiracy.pdf

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    42. Re:It's a start! by NewYork · · Score: 1

      H1B Indians have already exported their uncivilized Caste system to USA https://qz.com/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-indians-to-hire-others-indians-and-its-killing-diversity/

      --
      Casteism
  2. Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America first. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Regardless of what you think about him, we should thank President Trump for again making it acceptable to put America and Americans first when it comes to policy decisions.

    For too long now political correctness, forced on the nation and its people by leftists, has prevented American interests from coming first and foremost.

    Thank you, President Trump, for taking away the stigma that leftists have associated with putting America first.

    Although this reform isn't as good as completely eliminating these awful visas, it's clearly better than leaving the system as it is. But even this degree of reform would have been unthinkable without President Trump making Americans realize that they don't have to hurt themselves just to benefit foreigners.

  3. Thank you Donald! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There's no way in hell Hillary would have done this. She would have only increased the number of H-1Bs.

    1. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      She had already assured business leaders that she would continue the program unchanged. And she would have likely also labeled anyone opposing the visas as "racists" for daring to question them.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Thank you Donald! by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      I seriously hope Trump gets rid of H1B visa completely. (full stop)

      We have decades of empirical data showing who H1B helps and who it hurts. It helps the business owners, and hurts the non-executive workers. For many decades we've had a government helping owners at the expense of workers. Let's try doing things the other way and see how that goes.

    3. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I vote for Trump because I believed there was about a 30% chance he would actually deliver on his promises to stand up to the corporations in favor of the working class. The odds were, and still are, in favor of him being full of shit on those promises. But that 30% chance is still better than the 0% chance that Hillary would have ever stood up for the working class.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    4. Re:Thank you Donald! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      yeah right. trump, THE corporate whore is going to fight against his own kind.

      and pigs will fly, soon, too.

      I'd expect clinton to fight business greed more than a REPUBLICAN who is ONLY a rich fucker and has no skills other than inheriting a lot and failing, constantly.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    5. Re:Thank you Donald! by Papaspud · · Score: 1

      But he isn't as stupid as Obama, not as evil as Hillary, and for sure not a degenerate Fuckhead like you.

      --
      Everything above is my opinion....YMMV
    6. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Clinton has a history of standing up for working class issues.

      And I'm pretty sure you are delusional.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      What a fascinating rejoinder! Do you have a blog I could follow?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    8. Re:Thank you Donald! by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Lol, well not all of us can be as articulate and compassionate as you, obviously.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  4. Students? by nbritton · · Score: 2

    Why are students getting H-1B Visas? Isn't this program for professionals who have expertise that can't be found locally?

    1. Re:Students? by RabidTimmy · · Score: 3, Informative

      A lot of foreign students are pursuing PhDs. If the university is acting correctly, they should be experts in their fields.

    2. Re:Students? by ghoul · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its for skills that cant be found locally. The latest cutting edge research is done in universities and as the majority of grad students are foreigners if companies want people with reseaerch experience at the cutting edge they need foreign students. Students are getting H1Bs because the US immigration system is so screwed that it has no specific visa for Students who have graduated from US universities to stay and work in US (every other country which has a large education industry has a student work visa post graduation) so they use the H1B which was meant for Models.
      Also mostly students are now spending 2-3 years in OPT so by the time they are on H1B they have the skills and the experience.

      All this would not be needed if the Comprehensive Immigration Reform under Bush had got passed which had basically said every student graduating in STEM would have a Greencard stapled to their Diploma.

      GCs are always better than H1Bs as they have the same freedom to work for anyone and do not depress the market like H1s do.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    3. Re:Students? by imgod2u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not students. People who graduated from a US University. For instance someone who came to grad school (or undergrad) and just graduated and is looking for a job.

    4. Re:Students? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The latest cutting edge research is done in universities

      That's not really true any longer, especially when it comes to computing, IT, and so forth. It's industry that's responsible for pretty much all of the innovation in these fields, and it has been this way since the 1980s.

      Just look at programming languages. None of the widely used programming languages today came out of academia. C and C++ came from industry research labs. Java, C#, Go, and Swift came from large corporations. JavaScript came from a smaller company. In fact, academic languages like Lisp, Scheme and Prolog have seen pretty much no use outside of academia.

      Another example is AI. Look how long it stagnated in academia. It wasn't until recently when the computing industry started working with it that it really took off and became useful.

      Now, this isn't necessarily the case for all fields. Medicine and pharmaceuticals do involve academia much more than computing does. But computing academia is quite isolated and separate from the real world. In many ways they aren't leading innovation, but merely documenting and analyzing what the computing industry has already come up with earlier.

    5. Re:Students? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Medical residents often will get H-1B or J1. There are enough US citizens for all the Medical residency spots that are out there if you include foreign trained but US citizens. This would force all of them to take J1's. They often get J1's which say they are going back home afterwards but because there is a physician shortage (due to lack of residency spots) they can get more permanent visas. There are a lot of US citizens that have medical school loans and can't get residency spots, leaving them unable to use their degree. If you wonder why there are so many foreign doctors this is why.

    6. Re:Students? by mikael · · Score: 1

      AI stagnated in academia because the average research budget grant simply didn't cover the cost of high performance computing at the time. In the late 1980's, MSDOS PC's were stuck with 4.77MHz/16MHz CPU's, 256 color VGA modes, and 64 kbyte memory segment block allocation sizes (aka tiny, small, medium, large and huge memory models for code generation). Academics were lucky to have a 80x87 floating-point coprocessor. Even the 32-bit or 64-bit workstations weren't that much faster due to the fact that many had external storage on the network. Even when there were fast workstations, they decided to slow everything down with interpreted languages like LISP, Prolog and Scheme. Some did compile into native executable code but required large code libraries. A lot of academics had to make do with PC's to do image processing. Unless they had an i860 coprocessor with a framegrabber board, they had to store images on disk, fetch each column or row of pixels one by one, do a FFT or inverse FFT, then write the data out, repeating the process for the other axis. Now the same work can be done using a HD webcam, a smartphone or an ink-jet printer.

      Supercomputers were restricted to weather simulations and aerodynamics. Around 2005, it was possible for a desktop or laptop to do 3D volume visualization with some old school texture mapping tricks and high-level shaders. Now there are a dozen different methods of doing rendering and image processing each taking advantage of GPU capabilities; OpenGL, OpenCL, CUDA, DirectX, compute shaders, Matlab, Blender, GIMP, ImageMagick, WebGL, Java, Python (PyCuda, PyGL)

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    7. Re:Students? by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Why are students getting H-1B Visas? Isn't this program for professionals who have expertise that can't be found locally?

      Good question. Actually, H1B is something that both foreign grad students from US universities - F1 visa holders - have to get once they've completed their OPT (Optional Practical Training). In other words, the 1-2 year period that they are allowed to remain in the US to work - that's under the extended provision of an F1 visa, but after that, they need to get an H1B

      Which is the same visa that any foreign worker who's never studied in the US would have to get, if his employer wants to send him here. And that is a part of the issue that Trump ran into last year, when he mentioned how he wanted foreign graduates of US universities to be allowed to stay, even while cracking down on H1Bs. Point is that he was drawing a distinction b/w 2 categories of people, who happen to need the same category of visas in order to live and work in the US

      Instead, changing the visa of graduates to something else, or giving them a pathway to a green card is a better approach. That way, the 2 categories of people are not conflated. Foreign students who graduate from US universities do have the expertise US companies need; OTOH, foreign workers just happen to meet the wage desires of their employers, rather than the legal requirements of H1B visas

  5. Does this help? by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The H-!B program prohibited the replacement of American workers before, but ways were found to get around it. This bill is really saying the same thing with the addition of foreign students getting preference for them? Maybe I'm being a negative nellie here but it seems that this bill doesn't do anything extra than the original bill did except give domestic STEM workers more competition to get into good schools due to an influx of students looking for the H-1B ride.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re: Does this help? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      But it doesn't say they will HAVE to have a degree, only that people with degrees will get preferential treatment. Nothing else has changed. This looks like it makes the situation worse, not better. What about this precisely stops TaTa from staffing up with H1-Bs and replacing an entire IT department?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Does this help? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The goal is to hurt consulting companies like Infosys who import H1B programmers wholesale then underpay them by a ridiculous amount, and generally treat them badly. This will ruin their normal recruiting methods.

      Also, there's been a lot of propaganda recently about how we train people in universities, and then kick them out. The logic is that we might as well keep their expertise in the country, since we've given it to them.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Does this help? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      How is this preventing Infosys from underpaying? That is what I am asking.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:Does this help? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There's a limited number of H1B visas. If other people have priority over Infosys, then they won't be able to get the visas they need.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Does this help? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      The H-!B program prohibited the replacement of American workers before, but ways were found to get around it. This bill is really saying the same thing with the addition of foreign students getting preference for them? Maybe I'm being a negative nellie here but it seems that this bill doesn't do anything extra than the original bill did except give domestic STEM workers more competition to get into good schools due to an influx of students looking for the H-1B ride.

      You're not being a Negative Nellie. You're being a Realistic Ryan.

      Only a fool thinks Trump is magically fixing the H1B problem. Like the Parent said, there were always provisions to prevent H-1B's from taking jobs from Americans, but there were loopholes that were easy to exploit so expect a status quo ante trump. You've got to be naive in the extreme not to know that big business butters Trump's bread, he's not going to do anything to jepordise that, in the mean time if a bit of hand waving can appease the bleating masses, then it's a win-win.

      TL;DR,
      Nothing is going to change.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:Does this help? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Yeah but that is only limited by the number of FOREIGN DOCTORATES that make it and want an H-1B. There are probably a lot of them, but honestly enough to make a dent in the allotment? It says the random raffle is gone, how is it gone? Will they ONLY be giving these for foreign doctorates? Are they going to weight the average towards the genius that H-!Bs are supposed to be for? They will probably know ahead of time how many spots are remaining so it will still be a fine business. I feel we are being played for fools here.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    7. Re:Does this help? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There are probably a lot of them, but honestly enough to make a dent in the allotment?

      Maybe not.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  6. Preference? Don't they have that already? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to existing H1-B policies, every year up to 20,000 foreign students who receive a degree from a US university can obtain an H1-B, exempt from the main cap.

    So what's different here?

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  7. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think it was political correctness that led to the H1B issue. I think it was probably corporate/rich person greed.

  8. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The sad thing is that patriotism and nationalism have become dirty words on the left. It's even worse in Europe, though. Members of the "Britain First" movement are being arrested and persecuted pretty heavily. Shit, you can get into serious trouble there just for selling stuff with the British flag on it. Such is the insane world we live in.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  9. Re:"explicitly prohibits" by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

    This. Unless they patch the 3rd party provider loophole, this is meaningless.

    --
    "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
  10. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Trump and his new cabinet will soon put an end to corporate greed as well.

  11. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It was political correctness that kept people from speaking out. H1B's are "not white" and thus it is racist to try and talk about it. The real issue though is that liberals play so much identity politics that attacking anyone but a white man for his or her identity became off-limits. Add in the fact that it benefits corporations and bam - who the hell wants to touch the issue? White males can't talk about it, corporations don't care, women are only marginally affects because, on average their jobs aren't being replaced. So you are left with maybe one black guy who was replaced that can talk about it.

    With Trump's election it was decided that white men are allowed to have a voice again.

  12. I'm with Mittens on this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Staple the fucking green card to the diploma and fuck all this H1B nonsense. If these students/academics/workers are good enough to be in the industry, then these are the people we *want* to become citizens.

  13. Why give them H1Bs? by mark_reh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not give them a green card? If you give them H1Bs they are still slaves and will still be paid less than American workers. This isn't an improvement, it's window dressing. It won't change anything except increase the competition/corruption to get into US schools.

    1. Re:Why give them H1Bs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thank you. You stated what should be obvious to our elected leaders. When someone wants to emigrate to any country, they should apply as normal. If their skills are useful and necessary, there could be ways to fast track them. But in no way should they be indentured servants who can't leave their jobs because of the twisted visa program. They should be free to leave a company if they are underpaid and can find something more competitive.

      Companies better start realizing that importing forced labor is not winning anyone over, and it's going to get them shafted now in D.C.

    2. Re:Why give them H1Bs? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      It is illegal to pay them less.

      What we do need is a 20% tax and have the actual job description match the job title and allow H1B1 visa applicants to file cases against employers who violate this just like we have with the department of labor.

      Do not give them green cards as they will just move the money back to India anyway. Put the tax and limit the cap on these visas. This way we get doctors and architects and senior engineers who are very important, but not help desk sweat shops.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    3. Re:Why give them H1Bs? by m00sh · · Score: 1

      Why not give them a green card? If you give them H1Bs they are still slaves and will still be paid less than American workers. This isn't an improvement, it's window dressing. It won't change anything except increase the competition/corruption to get into US schools.

      That was the original intention of H1B. It was meant to be a super-short term work visa that would lead to a green card within a year.

      There is processes to get people to come work in the US directly with a green card with EB-2 and EB-3.

      However, most of H1Bs are Indian nationals and it has overwhelmed the system that there is a decade long queue to get a green card.

      Also the system has been so overwhelmed that everything is broken. H1B was supposed to available all year around but it is only available for two days per year now. The green card process is a 1-2 year long process now instead of a quick few months and decades for Indian nationals.

      Not anything is working as designed. Everything is working on the extreme cases now. Quotas are hit instantly, processing times are half a year to review a simple application and it is a complex mess that makes everything very expensive except for a few companies who specialize on this.

  14. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by eepok · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Patriotism has never been a dirty word. Misuse of the words "patriot" and "patriotism", though, has stained the words to the point where they're immediately associated with something being covered up (see: USA PATRIOT Act).

    Nationalism, though, has been a dirty word since the '40s when nationalism's big brother "Fascism" became a bit of an issue for people living in the countries immediately adjacent.

    And the world's not insane. It's just that people disagree. It has always been that way and it will always be that way. If you want it to feel less "insane" spend some time understanding why people make the decisions they do. Once you understand, they're not so much "crazy" as they are in different circumstances.

  15. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

    I'll believe it when I see it. So far he's putting his billionaire friends first.

    And please tell me what these American interest are that the Republicans cater to and Democrats ignore. In my adult life, it's been the left that has more routinely focused on domestic social issues.

    Trump puts Trump first. That is why his family and his friends are getting government roles. My biggest worry is that the country sacrifices long term stability for short term growth.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  16. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by elrous0 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Disagreeing" is one thing. Imprisoning your opposition, threatening them with violence, getting them fired from their jobs, banning them from speaking engagements, harassing them, calling them racists and sexists, etc.--well that's something else entirely. The left stopped merely "disagreeing" some time ago.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  17. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You are aware that "Britain First" are a racist hate group with as good a reputation as the KKK? Many of their members have criminal records for violence towards anyone they consider foreign.

    Look at pictures of them in the press, and look for the word WASP tattooed on necks and knuckles. It stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, and it's the only kind of person they seem acceptable to live here.

  18. 100K for new grads? Nice... by ginoledesma · · Score: 1

    So potentially someone finishing their undergrad could start off with a USD 100K salary, when combined with this other bill. Now 100K may not be much in the coasts and various STEM fields, but then who decides which degrees/fields get priority? From what I can tell, it's almost always been lottery the past several years, even those in the "advanced degree" fields.

    Independently, both bills have good intent at addressing specific problems. Taken together, it introduces another one (or more, depending on how many lawyers can take advantage of it).

    1. Re:100K for new grads? Nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's actually a good watermark given the fact that the H1B is suppose to be about talent that doesn't already exist in the states. The idea that 100k is too much to pay a MCSE with a bachelors in MIS helps support the original intent of H1B.

  19. Re: Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    UK pushed a sizable sub-culture to the breaking point and they're finally lashing out. Seems maybe something went wrong a while back...

  20. Re:Congress does bills by thebigmacd · · Score: 1

    Seriously? House and Senate Bills have different prefixes for goodness sake...

  21. We could always try my suggestion by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    So the big problem I see with H1B's is they're tied to one company and get kicked out if they get fired. (Which makes them not want to look for another job.) So change things so that after a very short time period, say 3-6 months, they're an immigrant like anybody else and can stay for 5-10 years. I want them to start looking for a new job if the company that hired them is screwing them over. Oh and if we see you losing all your H1B's to other companies I would want the feds to not give you more of them. (Because it would be a clear indication you're fucking everybody over and don't deserve more.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  22. Re: Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You mean like how Obama doubled the national debt in 8 years? If that's not trading long term stability for short term growth, I don't know what is.

  23. There are only 65,000 H1-Bs by raymorris · · Score: 1

    For 2017, there are regular 65,000 H1-Bs, plus 20,000 reserved for graduating students only. If graduating students are given preference for those 65,000, they'll maybe 50,000 of them. That leaves only 15K for imported workers, instead of 65K.

    So yeah, it ends up meaning you have to get a degree in the US in order to have a reasonable chance of getting an H1-B.

    Further reforms, like doubling the minimum H1-Bb salary, would help ensure those 15K imported workers are people you really can't find in the US, like Linus Torvalds or Tim Berners-Lee.

  24. Double salary for like Linus or Tim Berners-Lee by raymorris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Raising the minimum H1-B salary from $60K to $150K would mean we could still bring in people like like Linus Torvalds or Tim Berners-Lee, who truly can't be found in the US. People who are truly special. A $150K minimum would eliminate the issue ofb replacing US workers with cheaper imports.

    1. Re:Double salary for like Linus or Tim Berners-Lee by m00sh · · Score: 2

      Raising the minimum H1-B salary from $60K to $150K would mean we could still bring in people like like Linus Torvalds or Tim Berners-Lee, who truly can't be found in the US. People who are truly special. A $150K minimum would eliminate the issue ofb replacing US workers with cheaper imports.

      Someone like Linus or Tim would not come on an H1B visa.

      They would come with the green card already in their names. There is a separate process for people who are beneficial for national interests that bypasses H1B.

      H1B is for skills that cannot be found locally from someone who is looking for employment, the emphasis being locally and with someone looking for employment. It is not for all across the US. It is not about someone locally who has the skill but is already working and not looking for employment.

      Company A needs something done but there is nobody locally available to do the job. That is where H1B comes in. It is not a visa for importing exceptional individuals. Those are EB-1 and EB-2 NIW which is directly green card and not H1B.

  25. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by cats-paw · · Score: 1

    wow. the fox news astroturfers are out in force.

    first of all - interesting isn't it how the republican controlled congress couldn't seem to do something about this until Trump was elected. what a coincidence.

    what the fuck is this about american interests coming first ? h1-b visas are about corporate interests coming first. h1-bs were about corporate interests overwriting american worker interests. how you manage to turn that into "the leftists hate america" is both sad and depressing, and then got uprated for that shit.

    but your real gem is the way that you imply "leftists" somehow stopped h1-b reform because it wasn't PC. what a load of crap.

    this is all about corporate power. Trump had nothing to do with this. The republicans are running with this now to try to make him look good. he's too fucking self-absorbed to even understand h1-b's, much less the tech industry.

    last but not least, do you really think this is the bill will get passed as is ? you can bet that on page 105 of the 300 page bill there's going to be some sort of massive corporate give-away to help then get around these provisions everybody is so happy about.

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
  26. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not a question of disagreement. It's a question of utter dishonesty on your part.

    Members of the "Britain First" movement are being arrested and persecuted

    He was arrested for breaching his bail conditions. that's not persecution by any measure.

    Shit, you can get into serious trouble there just for selling stuff with the British flag on it

    Saying "serious trouble" strongly implies trouble with the authorities. No such thing happened. A few people let him know their dumbass opinions in person and on face book. OH NOES EVERY RIGHTWING NUTJOB PANIC!!

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  27. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Indeed, it was the opposite - racism towards Americans and right wing corporate greed/minimal regulation.

    Unfortunately you just elected the poster child for corporate greed, minimal regulation and racism. Oops.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  28. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Describing something or someone as racist or sexist is an entirely legitimate criticism if true. Complaining that people are calling out your racism/sexism is just an attempt to silence critics and an attempt to use social pressure to stifle free speech.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  29. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    Patriotism has become the first recourse of the scoundrel. It's the kind of anti-politically-correct. Anything politically correct is automatically bad, anything patriotic is automatically good. It's a cheap bit of rhetoric, a bogus argument.

    Real patriots, like Edward Snowden, are denounced and punished. Only faux patriotism is allowed.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  30. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1, Informative

    Ah yes, how very typical for neonazi crybabies bemoaning themselves as victims even though they are the ones who get violent.

    https://www.theguardian.com/co...

    http://www.zeit.de/politik/deu...

    Fuck you and your patron saint Breivik.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  31. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Papaspud · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It is pretty funny how less than 2 months after the election, the Clinton Foundation is shutting its doors.... nah there was no pay to play going on there.

    --
    Everything above is my opinion....YMMV
  32. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Papaspud · · Score: 1

    That is history, now we get the dregs looking for a free ride.

    --
    Everything above is my opinion....YMMV
  33. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was born a white male and no-one has ever accused me of being racist, except for some idiots on the alt-right who said I hated white males (i.e. myself). I just mocked them, rather than getting all upset and demanding a safe space away from the bad words.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  34. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by gtall · · Score: 1

    Well, Trump is a "baby Christian" now according to the Prosperity Evangelicals. This baby Christian has decided that America no longer needs to be accommodating to refugees. Jesus said give up all you have an follow him. So we'll be seeing Trump dump his dough any moment now and offer Trump Tower to refugees...Muslim refugees, we'll be wanting to know he is sincere.

  35. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by gtall · · Score: 1

    Yeah, two world wars would tend to give patriotism and nationalism a dirty name. Let's bring them back and see if they are still a threat.

  36. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by jemmyw · · Score: 2

    I don't know your nationality, but I'm British and here is my view on it: For a long time British people have been very wary of overt nationalism for a number of reasons that have left a mark on our subconscious. Our view of WWII plays into it. Our view of America and overt patriotism too plays into it, somewhere between thinking it crass and feeling that we can't compete so won't bother. Then there's the way the nation is split up into countries, which can make that feeling of identity a little vague.

    Patriotism - it's just not a word that's in common use in the same way. It evokes in me a sense of history, or the feeling that the context is American. It's not a dirty word, just not one we use.

    "Britain First" were just another bunch of thugs, of which we get a roundabout of many. The guy selling stuff with the British flag on it didn't get into any trouble at all. Some people off the street commented on the name of his shop for reasons connected with the above. You're allowed to do that in Britain, comment on things. I mean he called it "Really British". That's not a very British thing to do is it.

  37. Re: Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fi by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

    Do you know who makes the budgets? Do you know who failed to create a balanced budget for Obama's term? Do you know anything about civics?

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
  38. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by ghoul · · Score: 1

    H1Bs were introduced as part of WTO negotiations. When India agreed to let US sell Caterpillar backhoes and Pepsico Sugar water in India , US agreed to let India sell software services in the US and as the work permit process in the US is messed up and the L1 is very restrictive, H1s were introduced. The conflation of H1B (a free trade visa) with immigration is unfortunate and happened because of a quota which put an artificial limit on number of people coming to US to provide short term software services. Trump can put conditions which prevent Indian software companies from selling software services in US. India will probably retaliate with restrictions on US companies selling into India. If I was a Boeing, Caterpillar, GE, Coca Cola , Apple or Microsoft shareholder I would not be very happy. If I was a worker at these companies' plants I would be very worried about layoffs.

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  39. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    I'm laughing that you would quote a Trump speech and think it hold any weight by the time you hit the second double-quote.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  40. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by mjwx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Patriotism has never been a dirty word. Misuse of the words "patriot" and "patriotism", though, has stained the words to the point where they're immediately associated with something being covered up (see: USA PATRIOT Act).

    Nationalism, though, has been a dirty word since the '40s when nationalism's big brother "Fascism" became a bit of an issue for people living in the countries immediately adjacent.

    This. Having pride in your country because its something to be proud of is patriotism, a patriot strives to improve his country.

    Demanding your country is recognised as superior without merit is nationalism. A nationalist seeks to belittle other countries to make his own look better.

    A patriot does not mind people criticising their country, a Nationalist or Jingoist does not permit any questions about his beliefs.

    I just got back from Holland. contrary to popular American views is actually a nation of people who are very proud to be Dutch, I think the confusion comes in the way the Dutch express their patriotism. Everywhere I went I was asked "You are from England, how are you enjoying Holland". Hell, even the Dutch customs officer asked me how my trip was on the way out of Schipol. The Dutch take great pride in their hospitality and friendliness. Because of this, they are actually quite open to criticism, seeing it as a means of improvement (or at the worst, know when a critisim is not valid and should be ignored).

    Even though I'm technically an Australian, I really dont mind being called English (I live there now). It happens all the time in the US, I consistently am asked "What part of England are you from" (which should be "which" part) and respond with "I'm from this small island a bit south of England called Australia". Well I guess I cant use that one any more. Sorry for the Grandpa Simpson story, and yes I did have an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time.

    So it's a shame that I have to use my own country as an example of nationalism, particularly as nationalism pretending to be patriotism. Traditionally, for an Australian to be proud of Australia, we were proud of its accomplishments, accomplishments that often outshone larger nations. It was always an easy going pride, the idea was that you didn't have to wave a flag or recite a poem to be a proud Australian. The Australian way used to be giving people a fair go, being kind and generous to your friends. Sure it was always cliquey but nowhere near the level of outright xenophobia you see today. The people in Australia who label themselves "patriots" are nothing but xenophobic ultra-nationalists who have adopted ironically un-Australian sayings like "Fuck off, we're full", make barely coherent arguments about "boat people" who are allegedly "destroying the Australian way of life" and "taking jobs from Hard working Australians" (lets ignore that the speaker has probably been on the dole for the last 4 years).

    Sure I know plenty of people who like Australia, who would like to express their pride, but are too scared of being associated with the likes of Reclaim Australia because... because to be frankly Australian about it, they aren't racists fuckwits like One Nation and Reclaim Australia.

    I see the same thing here now I've lived in England for a while. There's lots to celebrate about English culture (not the food, but I digress) however nationalists like the EDL (English Defence Leauge) make it hard for ordinary English to do this because they deliberately try to weld being a proud Englishmen to a xenophobic ideology... And I think that's a bloody shame.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  41. Wright State would have loved this. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Wright State University was caught using university students to perpetuate H1-b fraud. They effectively were saying that the training that students were doing was worthless.

    This bill would only cement that idea.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  42. If there is space to game the system by pjv936 · · Score: 1

    for workers who will be paid less then the corporations will find it.

  43. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    People have been speaking out plenty all the while. Corporations were making more money by ignoring their concerns. Political Correctness is a non-sequitor in this conversation.

  44. 65,00p H1-B by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > H-1b holders at 1 million+

    The annual cap on H1-Bs is 65,000 and they are valid for six years max. If everyone with an H1-B stays the full six years, that would be 360,000 total.

  45. 390K. Don't type and walk by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I was walking while typing. 390K of course.

  46. Re:Thank you, Pres. Trump, for putting America fir by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    Every country and culture has a nasty history of some kind. That doesn't mean they just give up and commit cultural/national suicide over it. Europeans have long been a cynical lot. But the level of self-hatred and white guilt that we're seeing today has almost become a form of mass mental illness. Europe is rapidly becoming dysfunctional to the point where, when the invaders come (and they always do eventually), most will just throw open the gates and beg to be destroyed.

     

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  47. Interesting by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Interesting