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Three States Propose DMCA-Countering 'Right To Repair' Laws (ifixit.org)
Automakers are using the Digital Millennium Copyright Act to shut down tools used by car mechanics -- but three states are trying to stop them.
An anonymous reader quotes IFixIt.Org:
in 2014, Ford sued Autel for making a tool that diagnoses car trouble and tells you what part fixes it. Autel decrypted a list of Ford car parts, which wound up in their diagnostic tool. Ford claimed that the parts list was protected under copyright (even though data isn't creative work) -- and cracking the encryption violated the DMCA. The case is still making its way through the courts. But this much is clear: Ford didn't like Autel's competing tool, and they don't mind wielding the DMCA to shut the company down...
Thankfully, voters are stepping up to protect American jobs. Just last week, at the behest of constituents, three states -- Nebraska, Minnesota, and New York -- introduced Right to Repair legislation (more states will follow). These 'Fair Repair' laws would require manufacturers to provide service information and sell repair parts to owners and independent repair shops.
Activist groups like the EFF and Repair.org want to "ensure that repair people aren't marked as criminals under the DMCA," according to the site, arguing that we're heading towards a future with many more gadgets to fix. "But we'll have to fix copyright law first."
Thankfully, voters are stepping up to protect American jobs. Just last week, at the behest of constituents, three states -- Nebraska, Minnesota, and New York -- introduced Right to Repair legislation (more states will follow). These 'Fair Repair' laws would require manufacturers to provide service information and sell repair parts to owners and independent repair shops.
Activist groups like the EFF and Repair.org want to "ensure that repair people aren't marked as criminals under the DMCA," according to the site, arguing that we're heading towards a future with many more gadgets to fix. "But we'll have to fix copyright law first."
They sound like good laws. I just hope they pass.
We never talk about him anymore. Trump trump trump!
"would require manufacturers to provide service information and sell repair parts" - Would they mandate a reasonable profit margin?
Under the DMCA they can lock out jiffy lube by saying the change oil light reset code is under the DMCA and only dealers are to have it.
But this needs to extended to firmware images, sd card images, etc for embedded hardware.
Info on old pc based embedded hardware and older video games (arcade) that used custom cards so they can be run in VM's on newer pc hardware.
Letting people run that hardware in a VM with having to rebuy the software / pay the rights holder again. Yes some like that did have happen in the past and there a free VM system to replace the old pc and custom pci card. That still needed some of the old hardware and they got sued.
Good.
Anymore. You just rent it until it breaks so you can re-up on a newer rented item. Greed has no bounds.
Thankfully, voters are stepping up to protect American jobs
What kind of horse shit is that? Autel is based in China.
sell repair parts at the same price that the dealer pays?
Thankfully, voters are stepping up to protect American jobs
Can't help but feel like my anus is being forcibly greased up whenever "protect american jobs" is being waved around.
"Right to X" in the title of a new law is also a red flag.
I mean, I'm aware the DMCA is awful. They should just do something about that. Maybe say, we're going to repeal and replace it? Introduce the All-new Copyright Act, or ACA for short?
Let's remember, Autel is a company based in Shenzhen, China. Ford is based in Dearborn, MI, USA. So these bills are all about robbing American jobs, to support Chinese hackers.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
This has happened before, and it will happen again.
If I can't diagnose and fix the car myself or an independent shop but only through expensive Stealership shops, it means the extra money I paid to the Stealership for labour and parts vs self repair/indie shop, the money will not be spent at other local businesses which hire local workers.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
The last time I took my Ford to a dealer they charged $150.00 per hour for labor with a 4 hour minimum. And outrageous parts pricing. A friendly parts man sold me items at 40% off list and there were 50 and 60% off columns in the list. There aren't many repairs that I can do but some independent shops will negotiate costs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
#DeleteFacebook
i have a 1999 Ford Expedition, great truck for the 2-3k I drive it a year. Had a cracked windshield replaced which leaked (they fixed it) but it got my Gem Module(General Electronics Module) and fuse box wet. Darn truck, kept draining the battery, most of the electric stuff did not work, no lights, flashers, turn signals, dash indicators, windows ;) lol, !. Got it to the dealer. They said my GEM Module was bad, and they would order one.
;)
It would be 700.00 dollars up front and they had no idea when it would arrive. In fact they had one customer that has been waiting 7 months.
OK so I talk about getting one from the junk yard. But!!!! it needs to be programmed with the exact options my truck has and only Ford can do that and that is 500.00
I went home and just charged the battery everytime I wanted to drive the truck. And over time things dried out. All is good now.
I have been gathering every scrap of info so I can build a jig and write a program to dump the firmware from my electronic modules on my truck, since I am keeping it forever
I used to work at Dialogic, which was then bought by Intel. In all my time there, new prospects/customers would invariably say: "This is really hard to configure (we had line resource cards, DSP resource cards, and various ways to map these resources together.) don't you guys have a card configuration utility?" Well, for Windows, yes. For Linux, no. "Too hard and no demand" says Engineering. So, taking the bull by the horns, I found the PCI ID codes for the various cards, wrote a utility to configure them, got approval from my manager to release it as open-source and all was well. Until...The head of Engineering at our division found out about it and lodged a formal internal complaint that I had "released Intel proprietary information" and was summoned to Parsippany to face legal. Fortunately, my manager's support and basic common sense prevailed, the Eng manager was sent packing with his tail between his legs and I flew home drunk as a skunk. The legal guy basically said: "when you expose a PCI ID to the OS, it's no longer proprietary - dumbass!". Point is that when information is documented and exposed in any way, it is not "proprietary" in the sense that it cannot be used, just not stolen and used inappropriately.
I mean, I'm aware the DMCA is awful. They should just do something about that. Maybe say, we're going to repeal and replace it? Introduce the All-new Copyright Act, or ACA for short?
Sorry. The DMCA is Republican creation. Republicans are only opposed to laws created by Democrats.
The DMCA was a bipartisan effort. Created by Republicans, but signed into law by a Democratic president. The husband of the same person who almost became our current president.
Get away from the "us versus them" mentality. All the bad shit we have right now is the result of bi-partisan cooperation among politicians.
Your side is crap as well as the other side.
Insulting "the other side" does nothing to solve the underlying problem.
Federal laws automatically override all state laws. So these laws will have no effect.
Will he side with the repairmen or will he side with the megacorp.
There is a use-case for locked down hardware in an automobile: self-driving vehicles.
As much as you should have the rights to tinker on the things you own (and you should) things get a lot trickier when we start talking about the software or sensors that actually control your vehicle as it drives down the road.
It's going to be a complex issue with a LOT of debate, so I won't pretend like I can solve it in a single post. Suffice to say, lets not dismiss the entire concept of non-user-serviceable vehicles, in the long term. (though one thing I will say, that fact would have to be fully disclosed at time of purchase)
This signature is false.
Is anyone actually in favor of DMCA laws and why?
It looks like big corp buying laws at the expense of the people.
Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
Then why 'buy' them at all? Preventing people from repairing cars is going to be a massive incentive for people to switch over to ridesharing services, starting with urban drivers who have been used to keeping a second car. Let Ford and Uber fight over the DMCA.
Can WE get a right to repair the software? Having source code doesn't mean we own the copyrights to it any more than owning the binary copy means we own it. But it sure as shit means we can't repair it. Especially when the software is EOL'd, a problem that mechanics don't have to face.
So when do we get the right to repair software, hmm?
think it means. It just means that Clinton was President at the time. All he could have done was veto it. Which was, at that time, an extreme act. Since a black man became president, though, Republicans have been all for extreme acts (even putting 20 of them up for election), and are going ahead with yet MORE extreme action.
As long as it's them doing it, it's fine.
And you are 100% the same: as long as it's the Rs doing it, it's fine. If Ds do it, they're monstrous,if they don't, they're at fault.
Who "repairs" anything anymore, now that we are in the 3D printed revolution post-Luddite world?
We simply 3D print replacement cars these days.
I specifically left Ford for motorsport vehicles (Cobra, GT500) and went over to Mitsubishi (Evolution IX, Evolution X) for this reason. Tired of having to pay for $1000+ tuning software just to be able to write the tunes myself, when a crash or new build happens the ECU ID changes and the software locks you out again.
Where as on the Evo I literally had to buy a $120 cable and I can tune an unlimited number of cars with full control over ever parameter and essentially a fully professional environment to write custom tunes and even sell them if needed. We're not talking about end-user "hit apply" type tunes, I'm talking about changing individual load cells on hundreds of maps over months to dial in an exact tune.
Besides that the car was built so much better I felt like an idiot for parading the domestic brands for so long. I literally traded a 32 valve V8 Cobra for an Evolution IX that had a four wheel drive turbo 2.0 liter 4 cylinder which pulled *harder* and was easier to get serious horsepower out of. My jaw literally dropped on the test drive of a modded 450whp Evo9. I had driven supercharged 500-700hp V8's but this little car never broke traction and made it's power lower in the RPM range which made it feel many times faster. Plus you could floor it around corners and it was just unbelievable how well it gained traction as boost kicked in around a corner.
I never went back and almost nothing is locked down on these cars. Stop wasting your time with other brands... *Edit* Captcha was "inducer".
Unlike a certain weasel we had for President for the last 8 years...
Problem solved.
Activist groups like the EFF and Repair.org want to "ensure that repair people aren't marked as criminals under the DMCA," according to the site, arguing that we're heading towards a future with many more gadgets to fix. "But we'll have to fix copyright law first."
Well we have to fix people first, but no one wants to tackle that job.
Could be an interesting precedent, when my 'right to repair' my computer comes into question.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
Insert key into lock on steering column.
Sign EULA presented on display in center of dashboard.
Drive to nearest dealer for software/firmware upgrade.
Keep making the payments on your car loan.
I still buy CDs and it's been 13 years since I saw one which was alleged to contain a technological measure intended to limit access. Out of my approx 2000 CDs, literally exactly one of them has such a thing (which I didn't realize at the time I bought it). (And then I also didn't realize until after I ripped it and later found out that some people's drives (and car players) were having trouble with it.)
If you make a CD player which can play 99.95% (1/2000) and fails on one, it will not only be perfectly legal, but people will be ok that it doesn't play the one broken CD. (They can just go pirate it, instead of buying it, if they want to hear the album.)
DRM simply isn't a factor in the music sales. It effectively doesn't exist, except maybe in some of those streaming services. Video is where you go to find DRM, which is why I eventually gave up and started just pirating all my movies and TV, whereas I still buy music. Music publishers still want your money; it's the video people who are constantly creating piracy incentives.
Selling DRM should be taken as automatic proof of fraud. It's a product that was knowingly manufactured and sold with a severe defect. (So severe, in fact, that it's literally illegal to fix the defect.) A few criminal prosecutions where auto maker execs spend time in prison, combined with all of the sales of that model being effectively refunded by the civil suits, and this crap would go away overnight. The law should try to make fraud be unprofitable.
The actual proposal looks like an absurd attempt to bend over backward to avoid the above common-sense solution. Because the above stuff is what we would do if we really wanted to fix the problem. Since it simply is fraud, all we need to do is stop supporting the pretense that it isn't.
The proposed Nebraska statute says "Sec. 7: Nothing in the Fair Repair Act shall apply to motor vehicle manufacturers." As for other manufacturers, they get to take into account whether compliance would be too expensive, and the maximum penalty is $500. So regardless of whether or not you think these laws are a good idea, it's nothing close to being a Tech Writer Full Employment Act, an Everybody Can Repair Their Own Car Act, or a Put All The Small Manufacturers Out Of Business Act.
The states just have to ban sales of products that do not allow people to fix them. This does not overrule federal copyright law, it just restricts sales. You can be damn sure that if the car companies are only allowed to sell repairable cars in the state of California, car companies will make repairable cars.
The reason the vendors are using DCMA is because of what the insurance regulators and lobbyists did to them with the 'black box' technology.
The dipshit car manufacturers agreed that no one would be able to get a 'black box' reader to find out what data was being captured, or to allow anyone to find out where the device was installed.
The car manufacturers are legally beholden to the insurance regulators and to those that made (licensed) the 'black box' technology, and if there is no DCMA protection, then this cat will soon be out of the bag.
Within the current u.s. law, there is nothing illegal about a person getting a reader and finding where the box is located. It is only companies keeping secrets which prevent someone from getting the information today.
But the car companies and the insurance regulators have been pushing to get the telemetry technology locked down so it is a CRIME to read or location the device.
Indeed, good.
In fact, exemption to DMCA about repairs should have been in the Fair Use exception from the beginning.
(I'll have to check to be 100% sure, but in the equivalent under our local jurisdiction - that might already be the case...
indeed we have one among the most liberal clones of the DCMA)
And while in the US only 3 States start to think that defending the right to repair wouldn't be a bad idea, at the same time several European country (both EU and non-EU) are making big campaigns about "repair instead of throwing away".
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
this law might be used to repair defective CD's, it'll be gone.
As far as I remember (Disclaimer: I don't live under US jurisdiction. Our equivalent of DMCA is much more liberal that yours), "Making backups of media you own" is one of the rare few exception which is already covered under "Fair Use" exceptions.
(And your various mafiAA are already trying to fight it).
These "Repair exceptions" won't have much impact to the mafiAA.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Get away from the "us versus them" mentality. All the bad shit we have right now is the result of bi-partisan cooperation among politicians.
Your side is crap as well as the other side.
Insulting "the other side" does nothing to solve the underlying problem.
All the bad shit is mostly a result of your asinine political system.
- Try to have a *direct democracy* to reduce the power of lobbyists, etc
- Try to have multi-rounds presidential elections,
the president not having (in apparence) so much importance,
and you parliament of mixed composition,
to avoid it degenerate into a 2-party system.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]