Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Medical Startup To Begin Testing At-Home Brain Zapping Devices (ieee.org)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the stimulating-ideas dept.

"A doctor's prescription for clinical depression could one day sound like this: In the comfort of your own home, slip on a brain-zapping headband a few times per week," reports IEEE Spectrum. Slashdot reader the_newsbeagle writes: This isn't old-school brain zapping: It's not electroshock therapy... While "transcranial direct current stimulation" is being investigated as a treatment for all sorts of neuropsychiatric disorders, many researchers and doctors think depression may be the killer app. A South Korean company called Ybrain thinks its consumer-friendly headband for depression will be the product that makes this treatment mainstream...
Ybrain plans to test the device on thousands of depression patients in 70 hospitals in Korea, according to the article, then "use data from all those patients to build a case for approval in Europe...and then in the U.S." The company's founder and CEO believes that after the FDA approves the first brain-zapping device, "it will be seen as a mainstream treatment."

34 of 59 comments (clear)

  1. [Discussing how Knight didn't come in to the lab] by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 3, Funny
    Bodie: He said he didn't feel like it. And I said, "You'd better!" And he said, "Or what?" And I said, "Or you're gonna be in trouble." And he said, "Jam it."

    Professor Hathaway: That's a wonderful story, Bodie. I noticed you've stopped stuttering.

    Bodie: I've been giving myself shock treatments.

    Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

  2. This is not new by pf100 · · Score: 1

    "Brain zapping" headband devices have been worn by the Microsoft Windows 10 development team since day one.

  3. Re:And when people start hacking these devices? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    These are small, battery powered devices. There is little that a "hacker" could do to hurt himself that he couldn't do better by sticking his tongue in a light socket.

  4. Re: This would be good for anti-Trumpers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's Muslims. Muslim cows (Mooslims) can stay.

  5. Radium Water by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Look it up... People used to drink water from ceramic coolers laced with radium, they thought the irradiated water would help improve their health in the 1920s-1940s. People bought glass infused with uranium that would glow faintly at night or under a blacklight.... If it sounds stupid and dangerous... it probably is.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
    1. Re:Radium Water by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 2

      Except that there is a mounting body of published, peer reviewed science that says this works. Dubious? Try your own advice and look it up.

      It's not 100% effective, but it is better than placebo in everything I've read. Which is better than our current arsenal of pills.

      Also effective, a single dose of LSD.

    2. Re:Radium Water by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      most antidepressants are, in fact, better than placebo. they do work.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    3. Re:Radium Water by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 2

      Except the best one (Diazepam aka Valium) is super controlled. You cease to give a shit about anything bad, and enjoy anything good, for quite a few hours. It's a spot solution that can turn a mood around that doesn't require regular dosage. The ones they like to prescribe instead (SSRIs) require regular dosage, have intense withdrawl symptoms, and at higher doses have a troubling mental side effect: you no longer 'love' anyone or anything, and even those who notice this will find they are not troubled by it.

    4. Re:Radium Water by wept · · Score: 1

      Use of benzos over a period of time can lead to rebound anxiety, and withdrawal from benzos is not some minor thing. It can lead to seizures and other fairly serious medical problems. SSRIs don't turn you into some kind of psychopath that doesn't give a shit. That sounds like something straight out of "reefer madness".

      I took xanax for a couple of years for a severe anxiety condition because I was wary of SSRIs. It helped to some degree, but never anywhere close to completely, and it only lasted a couple of hours. It also made me groggy, so it wasn't really a solution for situations that would cause me more anxiety, or situations where I had to drive. It *did* help, though, and it was the first real relief I got from my anxiety. Unfortunately, I eventually started to have rebound anxiety - when I took it, I would feel better for a short period of time, and then my anxiety would rebound to levels higher than before I took it. It was a complete nightmare, and was worse than not taking it at all. After that, I tried lexapro (an SSRI), which has dramatically improved my life in every way. It works 24 hours a day, and I don't have to worry about being groggy or unable to drive like I did with xanax. I am able to care for/love people much more because I am not constantly in a state of fight-or-flight and worrying if I'm going to throw up all the time. I can fly on an airplane like a normal person, rather than clutching the puke bag in absolute terror. And a million more every day things that most people may take for granted, but to me are a kind of miracle.

      Please don't perpetuate bullshit about SSRIs that may prevent even more people from being helped by them. They may not work for everyone, but the picture you have painted here about both kinds of drugs is completely absurd.

    5. Re:Radium Water by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Valium is not an antidepressant, it is a sedative and its withdrawal is way worse than SSRI withdrawal since it forms both a physical and a psychological dependence. SSRI does neither, it just somewhat changes the way the brain works. The headaches during withdrawal are unpleasant, but there is no craving for the drug whatsoever.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    6. Re:Radium Water by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      SSRIs don't turn you into some kind of psychopath that doesn't give a shit. That sounds like something straight out of "reefer madness".... Please don't perpetuate bullshit about SSRIs that may prevent even more people from being helped by them. They may not work for everyone, but the picture you have painted here about both kinds of drugs is completely absurd.

      I didn't say that. People still care about things (work, friends, their own self being). FTR l've found them quite helpful for OCD at a low dose. But I've heard from a few people who take higher dosages that intense feelings of love for their children or s/o simply disappear over time (yes I know plural of anecdote is not data, but you can find internet corroboration). To say they are devoid of side effects that some find undesirable is a bit disingenuous. An artist friend of mine stopped because she thought it changed her brain such that she was a different person - except that is kindof the point of taking them. OCD me is an environmental activist/SJW who freaks out every time his roommate puts recyclables in the regular trash, and triple checks to make sure doors are locked. SSRI me gives 0 fucks.

      And yes I know regular usage of benzos is bad - that is why I was advocating it as the "spot" solution not the "pop one every morning" solution. Any drug that has fast acting psychoactive effects can be abused. But for some people who only have depression cycles once or twice a month, a spot fix is all that is needed (not to mention requires less pills, so cheaper).

    7. Re:Radium Water by martinfb · · Score: 1

      Also effective, a single dose of LSD.

      I Like this solution for half of the voting US public!
      (The other half needs to STOP using LSD!)

      --


      Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  6. obligatory Larry Niven reference by TechnoLuddite · · Score: 1

    "Loooee Woo, urr you wirehead?"

  7. Re:Total Recall 2070 by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

    Ybrain plans to test the device on thousands of depression patients in 70 hospitals in Korea, according to the article, then "use data from all those patients to build a case for approval in Europe...and then in the U.S.

    For a technique that has yet to have any established evidence to show it is useful for depression, this might be seen as optimistic.

  8. Re:And when people start hacking these devices? by quonset · · Score: 1

    These are small, battery powered devices. There is little that a "hacker" could do to hurt himself that he couldn't do better by sticking his tongue in a light socket.

    I guess hooking up this device to a standard wall socket is out of the question? Because there's no way someone might want to create a tasp?

  9. Re:US Muslim Ban by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Where have I heard statements like this before? Oh, right, history class when we discussed Germany around 1933 and following.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  10. Re:This would be good for anti-Trumpers by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

    To wipe the Trump resistance you need ECT levels - 120VAC 60Hz, paralytics recommended to keep the subject from breaking their own bones due to the convulsions. Effectively relieves persistent depression for several weeks, after which repeat treatments are needed.

  11. Re:And when people start hacking these devices? by Shoten · · Score: 1

    These are small, battery powered devices. There is little that a "hacker" could do to hurt himself that he couldn't do better by sticking his tongue in a light socket.

    Um.

    So...on one hand, these are supposed to herald a bold new way of treating various disorders because its effects can be so powerful, but on the other hand, you couldn't possibly mess up and cause harm?

    I don't think that kind of logic has ever been true, ever, about anything. Either it's inert or it's effective; inert has no upside or downside, while effective means it can be done incorrectly or abused, resulting in harm. Personally, I think the idea of zapping your own brain to alter your neurological functions is NOT a good idea from a "do-it-yourself" perspective. Some things are not suitable for unsupervised trial-and-error approaches.

    As they say: if at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  12. Re:US Muslim Ban by gweihir · · Score: 1

    It is not Godwin if it is actually accurate.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  13. Re:US Muslim Ban by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Saudi Arabia does is a religious dictatorship. The US claims to be the "leader of the free world". There is your difference.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  14. Re:Phrenology 2.0 by sheramil · · Score: 1

    yeah? tell that to Dr Emilio Lizardo, monkey boy!

  15. That's one way of putting it. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    ... many researchers and doctors think depression may be the killer app.

    over a million depressed people commit suicide every year, so it's been the "killer app" for quite some time.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  16. Re:And when people start hacking these devices? by senileoldfart · · Score: 2

    Don't us a pair of quarters as electrodes, and don't ask how I know this.

  17. Re:This would be good for anti-Trumpers by demonlapin · · Score: 1

    Not to ruin a good rant, but ECT uses DC, not AC, and the paralytics are just to cut down on the soreness afterward.

  18. Re:Total Recall 2070 by GNious · · Score: 1

    Ybrain plans to test the device on thousands of depression patients in 70 hospitals in Korea, according to the article, then "use data from all those patients to build a case for approval in Europe...and then in the U.S.

    For a technique that has yet to have any established evidence to show it is useful for depression, this might be seen as optimistic.

    Don't know the details of Ybrain's tech, but doesn't sound that dissimilar from treatments currently available at hospitals, e.g. Re5-NTS, for severe cases.

  19. Mmmmh by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Can it be hacked as a pleasure whip?

  20. Re:And when people start hacking these devices? by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

    I'm in the process of building my own tDCS device right now. I bought the components last Saturday and built the circuit on Sunday; on Monday I built the electrodes and on Tuesday I started using it (still on the breadboard). The circuit is pretty simple, just a voltage regulator and a few pots and resistors (there are many ways to do it, this approach just happens to use a voltage regulator). There is no way a 9V battery running through this circuit could generate the hundreds of milliamperes necessary to kill, or the dozens necessary to cause harm. When resistors fail, they tend to result in an open circuit -- zero current.

    My circuit currently uses two potentiometers to ramp up the current to the desired level. Even with both of them wide open, the current is only 2.4mA, which is well within the safe range. (The recommended standard is to operate between 0.5mA and 2.0mA, but an order of magnitude above that is when you start to approach hazardous levels.) And of course, I run the it through a multimeter, so I always know the output of the circuit -- before, during, and after I put on the electrodes.

    I first heard about tDCS in an episode of RadioLab last summer, which gives a pretty good intro to the topic. I finally got around to actually doing it last weekend.

    Thus far, my experience has been entirely positive. The only glitch was yesterday when an "intermittency" developed in my electrode cable, which resulted in some phosphene flashes (due to an alligator clip + stranded wire). So I skipped my tDCS session today, and instead used the time to build the "finished" electrode cable, with soldered joints. That problem will not recur.

    On the positive side, it seems to be having the desired effect. I became interested in tDCS because I have a "condition" which results in a lot of "unwanted thoughts" -- and I have noticed a remarkable decline in the frequency of these episodes.

    You can naysay all you want from your armchair, but I'm actually doing this, and it works.

    For more info on safety issues check out the /r/tDCS sub-reddit's FAQ.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
  21. *zapp* by allo · · Score: 1

    Hmmmm, brainzapping *drools* *ZAP* *ouch!* *ZAPouchZAPouchZAPZAPZAP*

  22. Depression will not be the killer app by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    Depression will be the killer app,

    Hardly: Military use, video games, and sex will be the killer apps.

  23. One word: by chthon · · Score: 1

    Tasp

  24. Ahhh! Now I have Total Recall! by martinfb · · Score: 1

    Ahhh! Now I have Total Recall!

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  25. Re: This would be good for anti-Trumpers by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    And that's really the kicker. Most Americans want America to be great; everybody has somewhat different ideas about what "great" looks like, and what's the best way to get there.

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  26. Re:US Muslim Ban by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    Well, technically it's still a Godwin, but something can be a Godwin and be accurate at the same time. Godwin's Law just states "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1". Some people use it as an auto-debate fail, but that's not really part of it.

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  27. TMS vs TDCS by mick129 · · Score: 1

    Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) works a lot better.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    TMS uses a magnetic paddle to induce a current a couple centimeters away from the paddle. This allows for electrical stimulation within the skull that does not cross through the skull.

    With direct current stimulation the current passes through your scalp and skull.

    Why would you want to pass a current through your scalp and skull? It will cause potentially painful scalp twitching. You'll need to use a higher current because of the resistance of your scalp and skull. This is a cheap gimmick with many downsides compared to TMS.

    --
    Move along, no sig to see here.