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Mozilla Will Deprecate XUL Add-ons Before the End of 2017
Artem Tashkinov writes: Mozilla has published a plan of add-ons deprecation in future Firefox releases. Firefox 53 will run in multi process mode by default for all users with some exceptions. Most add ons will continue to function, however certain add ons have already ceased to function because they don't expect multi user mode under the hood. Firefox 54-56 will introduce even more changes which will ultimately break even more addons. Firefox 57, which will be preliminarily released on the 28th of Novermber, 2017, will only run WebExtensions: which means no XUL (overlay) add ons, no bootstrapped extensions, no SDK extensions and no Embedded WebExtensions. In other words by this date the chromification of Firefox will have been completed. If you depend on XUL add ons your only choice past this date will be Pale Moon.
Why bother using this bloated browser when it drops support for the incredible addon library it's accumulated over the years? Without customization, what exactly does Firefox offer over Chrome?
{company} did {thing}! {thing} is bad!
It's still bad even though it may be something I complained they didn't do before!
If only they listened to ME they would succeed!
I won't tell them or make my own {software} lest I be shown that my needs aren't the needs of everyone.
Once Mozilla kills their extension framework, there is literally no longer any reason to continue using Firefox.
If they were willing to deprecate what was once a flagship technology once, they will do it again.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Mozilla has forgotten what made Firefox great. Vivaldi is my new default browser. There are still some things missing that I used from Firefox (Live bookmarks, the DownloadThemAll plugin), but the performance is better and they care about the power user.
I am so very glad they're getting rid of every single thing that made Firefox popular in the first place
What's left after XUL is gone? Remove access to about:config?
Mozilla is so out of touch with their tech-minded userbase it's unreal. They probably think if they become like Chrome, Chrome users will jump to Firefox. Laughable. Once Firefox becomes Chrome, nobody's going to stick around - there will be no reason to anymore, at that point you either accept Chrome/ium or use a Firefox fork.
XUL is not inclusive enough as the name only uses three letters.
The patriarchy of those three letters must not be allowed to continue unchallenged!
We demand equal rights for the other 23 letters, and digits too!
I've never gotten a 100% clear answer on this, but it seems that the new extension scheme does not really allow the same degree of adblock/noscript/etc protection. There were adblock-like extensions for other browers that didn't display the ads, but still fetched them from the network, which of course still discloses (almost) everything to advertisers as would be if you fetched and displayed them.
I want a rock solid, iron-clad system to (1) never, under any circumstances, EVER fetch ads, tracking bugs, cookies, or other similar malware from the network, (2) ONLY run javascript on a tightly restricted set of whitelisted sites that I control.
That was the value of Firefox over other browsers. Chrome and others were written by ad companies themselves and were less trustworthy when comes to protecting my data. Firefox had a rich ecosystem of extensions to provide privacy features. If that ecosystem goes away or is degraded in what it can accomplish due to restrictions, then there is no more value to Firefox.
I'd probably have to stick to using the last version of FF before the change, but that will quickly become impossible. Think about trying to use a 20 year old browser on today's internet. Today's FF may be utterly unusable in 20 years or even much sooner.
Interested to hear what privacy extension developers such as umatrix and ublock origin have to say about this.
I've been using Pale Moon for a couple years. I hated when Firefox went to the Australis, chrome clone, interface. I hated when Firefox kept deleting features, especially preferences. Pale Moon is lighter, faster, more customizable, and pays more attention to security ideas. They were the first to deal with html5 canvas fingerprinting.
On the down side, I do occasionally find a site that won't work. I'm not entirely sure if it's Pale Moon, or my combination of script and ad blockers. It's usually a fluff entertainment site, and I don't care enough to turn them all off, or fire up chrome.
The justification they've given for removing classic extension support is that they depend too much on the internals of Firefox, for the same reason they also said they're a security risk.
They are valid technical reasons. Most people would agree that making extensions use a stable API decoupled from the browser's internals is a good thing for stability and compatibility in the long run.
But, and this is a very big but, that means many popular current extensions can't just be made to work with the new APIs. Also, the ones that can be adapted will probably need a good amount of work. The result is that many extension developers have said they will abandon their extensions.
Also, since those powerful extensions are one of the reasons many people keep using Firefox that will surely suppose a big hit on their maket share and that's the last thing Firefox needs.
Their stated mission is to fight to keep the web open, if nobody uses their browser they'll have no money and no influence and hence they can't fulfill their mission.
I know this must've been a hard decision to make at Mozilla but I feel it's not the right one.
https://blog.mozilla.org/addon...
... defecate.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
This year, Mozilla Will Remove the #2 reason everyone started using Firefox in the first place.
Copying Chrome has been a bad strategy, and killing XUL is one of their worst decisions ever. I'm waiting for the announcement that Firefox will become a re-branded Chrome, like Opera. Yay for software monoculture!
so they finally decided to kill it by the end of the year.
From then on, it will be just another re-branded chrome.
bye failfox.
Slashdotters are often willing to express unpopular opinions so they could never work at MoFo (or Twitter, et.al.). The few engineers I k
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
... know of there live in fear(avoidance) of the hipster social signalers who love to burn money to stay warm.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
How does this affect the myriad of adblockers? How I understand Chrome to handle adblocking: The ad loads, and still does its thing, but you can hide it. This isn't adblocking at all actually.
The new WebExtensions API is capable of many things but there is going to be a lot of lost capabilities. There are some pages comparing the capabilities and you'll find WebExtensions is lacking in many areas.
WebExtensions versus XUL/XPCOM extensions - see "Services.jsm API" table.
WebExtensions versus Add-on SDK - see "Low-level APIs" table
I don't know if Firefox will recover from this kind of seismic shift in APIs. Let's just hope they were rarely utilized parts of the API or that they are currently developing new replacements for the parts that people loved.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Infeasible because of security concerns? That's the only one I can think of because it should take a long time until web stop working on Firefox because it doesn't implement the latest standards
So firefox has the same addons (literally) like chrome, the same limited possiblity to tune the UI, a loss of many good firefox-only addons and the thunderbird developers need to maintain xul themself?
Looks like firefox will get a lot less important and thunderbird may die.
mozilla will stop distributing xul addons at some point. And as firefox doesn't let you install addons, which aren't signed on addons.mozilla.org ... you're still out of luck with xul addons.
> Your favorite add-ons will continue to work. ...
No, they won't.
The DownThemAll Developer mourned when they first announced the move, the Tabgroups developer recently said he won't be able to port his addon, mozilla ruled out many addons themselfes
Relevant uBlock Origin Issue:
https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/622
Some people honestly believe throwing shit and features in the trash because it aligns with their narrow opinions and agendas is a constructive activity. They are incapable or unwilling to accept the possibility of a reality beyond their narrow worldview.
From mass deletion of useful articles from Wikipedia to the bands of trolls constantly closing questions they don't understand on SO. From land of "developers" creating "API"s they constantly and willfully break and defecate (deprecate).. because why shouldn't everyone else be expected to constantly play semantic musical chairs to make *your* unorganized life marginally easier?
All of those who think taking settings away and denying user choice constitutes a better user experience or who truly believe everyone appreciates your nonsensical unproductive abstract notions of art that make software painful and unusable...There is a cure. You can be saved.
Avoid use of ALL computer INPUT device until end of days n ye shall be cured. ~ from Book of Krusteaz 12:10.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who are you trying to kid? A lot of the extensions I liked *already* quit working ages ago. Likewise themes.
And the default UI has become progressively shittier over time, with fewer and fewer options remaining for making it sensible again. Nuking the status bar. Moving the tabs *above* the menu bar. And all the other senseless UXtard horseshit.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Seamonkey... It's still the best browser out there, but how much longer it can hold out is anybody's guess.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
That's not true; you can install addons from other sites or from a file on your computer.
by Cyphase ( 907627 )
Quicksaver has five extensions, four of which are Featured by Moz://a
1) Findbar Tweak, 2) OmniSidebar, 3) Tab Groups, 4) Beyond Australis, and Puzzle Bars.
All of them will be gone with Firefox 57. I highly doubt Piro will be able to continue Tree Style Tab and co either.
Firefox users are fucked.
I've already seen a bunch of posts mourn the whole bunch of addons that will stop working end of this year. Probably, I'll lose some myself.
But personally, I trust Mozilla to do the right thing here. They've probably weighed the pros and cons, and made their decision. I'll see what the end result is. There's enough browsers to choose from nowadays.
Firefox has some unique things why I use it, first and foremost "search in links". Try it, tap the single-quote key and type text that appears in a link. Then hit enter. It's the fastest way to surf the web without a mouse.
But if end of this year comes and it turns out they screwed it up, fine -- I'll go and use another browser.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Will the new version still have memory leaks? Because it just isn't Firefox if it doesn't have memory leaks that grow to crippling proportions in 24 hours or so.
Hopefully this new-fangled multi process mode will allow for multiple, simultaneous memory leaks so the browser will become unusable in 2 or 3 hours instead of having to wait a whole day.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
you can't anymore, if you're not using a nightly. The release version blocks installation from files, which are not signed by AMO. They can be distributed on other sites, but they need to be signed on AMO.
Trust, but keep one foot wedged in the emergency exit, and one ear cocked for a fell voice on the air:
I cannot continue working on my add-ons anymore. I'm sorry, but it's time.
How long until Seamonkey gets depreciated as well?
...any email in my RSS feed from /. that contains Mozilla or Firefox in the subject.
I've moved on to Pale Moon, and I'm tired of hearing about Mozilla's self-induced death-spiral.
You do a great job of outlining the pros and cons. That said, I do have to disagree that this isn't the right move. I would argue that it is in fact the right move; it's just that the right move is the most painful move.
Firefox is a wonderful browser. But I fear we're losing sight of just how limited its legacy core is. Legacy Firefox offers no threading, no privilege separation, and no meaningful isolation between tabs or windows.
The browser-as-an-OS concept is no longer a gag, but the actual reality of how browsers work. Browsers are expected to do everything from executing code (JS) to graphics (WebGL) to video (HTML5, etc). Furthermore they are being treated as a multitasking operating system - via multiple tabs - with those tabs all competing for resources. Worse, some of those tabs may be hostile to the system or to other tabs.
This is something Legacy Firefox is ill prepared for, and in doing so it's the odd man out among the major browsers. Legacy Firefox is the MacOS Classic of browsers; a time-tested piece of software with parts going back to the earliest days of the Web. But like OSes 15 to 20 years ago, the world has moved on; it's akin to MacOS Classic going up against MacOS X/WinXP/Linux. The lack of real, preemptive multitasking and security has become a major liability, and becomes downright embarrassing when you realize that Microsoft of all companies was doing things like putting their browser in a low-privilege context a decade ago. Similarly embarrassing is the fact that a single runaway tab can take out the whole browser!
But all is not lost. Firefox can and is being upgraded with electrolysis (e10k). e10k Firefox has taken far too long to be developed - Mozilla should have been working in earnest on this a decade ago - but at long last it's here. And it finally brings with it all of the threading and isolation features that will make the browser safer and more reliable. Or more to the point, it will make the browser competitive in these respects with Edge/Safari/Chrome.
However just like giving up MacOS Classic meant giving up the OS's legacy applications, there is a price to pay for giving up Legacy Firefox: XUL and legacy add-ons. XUL is incredibly powerful, but the Moz devs have laid out a very good case for why it (and the rest of the legacy add-on system) can't be used with e10k Firefox. There's no concept of threading or safety; it's an API that has an unsafe level of access to the browser and can't handle being split up among threads. Its power is why we power users love it so much, but that power is dangerous. Worse, maintaining that power ultimately gets in the way of operating the browser with a safer multi-threaded environment.
And I won't dance around the issue: losing XUL and the legacy add-on system is going to be painful. Just losing the Classic Theme Restorer alone is going to be complete and total hell for this crowd. Never mind the other add-ons that enhance privacy, block ads, and do so many other nifty things. And not all of those add-ons can be remade for e10k Firefox, since they rely on a level of power that will no longer exist.
But you know what? It has to happen. Just like with MacOS Classic, at some point we have to stop using an archaic, unsafe environment origially designed around unitasking in order to move on to something better that can actually fulfill our needs. Even if we were to explicitly design/limit Firefox to Slashdot-level power users - and I would argue that doing so would ultimately be the end of the browser - it's still not in our interest to be using a browser that, at the end of the day, relies on cooperative multitasking. It's a crappy (if not horrific) execution paradigm for the real world. And while I admire the Pale Moon devs for what they're doing, Pale Moon just prolongs the problem. We still have to face this demon some day, if not today.
Is it goi
Pale Moon is like Firefox before they put all the crap needed to please the eye candy, "64-bit is the best" morons. Remember when you clicked on Firefox and it only took and instant to open? Pale Moon. If your "state of the art" browser opens fast, one of a few things are happening: 1.) you're running it on a Mac and failed to realize closing a window and quitting an app aren't the same; 2.) you're running Chrome but forgot to take into account that it's Google (spy king) and they always have processes running for it regardless. Mac and Windows do this (check Activity Monitor); 3.) You aren't using any add-ons worth a flip or at all, especially those involving privacy and ads; 4). You're running Min or Midori but never need flash or anything more than the but in Adblock Midori has; or 5.) Your running Pale Moon. It's awesome and stays updated. The only downside is some builds for some systems have gstreamer built in and some don't. MP4 video works on all of them though. And if you need PDF.js (not included by default), go to the forum's Mac section and there's a link for an add-on that will install it. Actually, probably just search Pale Moon in the add-on browser and it'll show up, maybe. I run on Mac and Linux because Firefox is killing my MacBook with RAM and CPU usage and Pale Moon touches ~700MB when having a bunch of tabs open and video loading, which is at least half of what Firefox does. Is eye candy that important to people?
Ultimately, this will affect almost no one. Planning for this change has been happening for a long time now. Your favorite add-ons will continue to work.
https://developer.mozilla.org/...
Those are the facts. That is right from the horse's mouth. Not all extensions are going to be ported. Period. Maybe a few of the most popular, but it's basically going to be like porting your extension to Chrome. FF basically will be Chrome as far as extensions are concerned.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
This is slashdot. Learn how to hyperlink properly.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
That was pretty much my point, yeah. The condescending "this will affect almost no one" bit made it obvious.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Well I think the important thing is whether you can archive existing .xpi files from AMO now to use as part of the installation of FrozenFox until/unless a practical non Chrome clone exists or for the next decade or so whichever comes first. Presumably signatures won't be a problem if the .xpi files were originally sourced from AMO.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
You forgot this gem: "The way add-ons worked in the past is what caused the 'shifting-sands' api developers just dealt with for years." Translation: "We're blaming the folks who used our API--that we touted as being the greatest thing since sliced bread--and who through no fault of ours are the same folks we're hanging out to dry now--for our inability to keep it stable."
Fuck that noise and the horse it rode in on.
Exactly. All the great extensions will be gone.
How does anyone survive with tabs on the top? Even on a portrait monitor, I have tabs on the side. Grouped, colored, trees of tabs...
I am now happy they did. I had been with FF since the beginning but they turned into a slow anti-privacy memory hog. I get the feeling they are producing the browser for themselves and not for the end users. Kind of like a bunch of kid developers saying hey Mom look what I just made with no care in the world about the ramifications of the changes to performance and productivity.
With each FF update I ended up with a time consuming list I had to go through in about:config and installing classic theme restorer, among many other things. This all just to get the browser back to where it used to be. But these last few updates broke some of my add-ons including Firebug and Firepath leaving no real solution in the developer edition replacement.
So that was it and forced me into using Pale Moon full time. Oh what a difference. I now have what looks like the normal Firefox, without the memory or performance issues and all my Firefox add-ons work. More importantly the interruption to work flow problem solved. This was all done with very little effort. The Palemoon updates also did not break anything or cause any issues or problems in work flow.
Good job Palemoon team.
There will be some extensions that don't work, but that was also true with any update as the api wasn't stable due to how add-ons work. Again, add-on developers have always had to deal with api changes.
UBlock Origin will continue to work, as will NoScript. You know, the big ones.
The OP mentioned FlagFox, which is still under active development, having received an update this year. There is no reason to suspect that it will stop working, given how simple it is.
As for DownThemAll, I don't know what they'll do. They updated their add-on to work with e10s, after all, and have dealt with countless api changes over the years already. Of course, they could always abandon it and let it die, allowing the countless competitors take over their spot. They've had, and continue to have, plenty of time to get their add-on ready for a change they knew was coming ages ago.
Yeah, he posted a stupid rant, but it's devoid of anything I can meaningfully check. Not a single technical point that can be addressed. That should tell you something.
Required reading for internet skeptics
The Future of Pale Moon
Thought this would be a relevant link to the only (customizable) alternative to FrozenFox 52.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
I'm sorry that reality is so difficult for you to accept.
Required reading for internet skeptics
WebExtensions announcement was made not two months after. "Demotivating" doesn't quite cover it .
Someone wasn't paying attention ... or they're just lying. Anyone paying even a little bit of attention has known about the new extension system for almost two years now.
But don't let facts get in the way of your meaningless hate-fest.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Not all extensions are going to be ported. Period.
That's right. I never claimed otherwise. The popular extensions, and the ones mentioned by the OP, however, will be ported. The OP's favorite add-ons will continue to work. This change affects him in no way.
You know, the add-ons that people actually use. UBlock Origin, NoScript, etc. are being ported. Hence, this change will affect almost no one.
For those (very few) devs posting nonsense about how this comes as a total shock, they've had almost two full years to prepare, and they still have the remainder of this year! They've even had ample opportunity to work with Mozilla to shape the new API.
So, no, not every add-on will be ported. Of course, considering the incredibly long time they've had to make the change, I don't think users are missing much by losing what are very likely to be low-quality add-ons with little to no support.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Except they don't. Their replacement is WebExtensions which isn't even close to being a reasonable replacement.
uBlock will, as it is already ported. NoScript isn't ported but possible (see uMatrix, which might be a better replacement anyway). Things like CTR, SessionSaver, Tabgroups, DTA might be a bigger problem. DTA not for the UI, but for the better network functions it's using.
> They've had, and continue to have, plenty of time to get their add-on ready for a change they knew was coming ages ago.
It's not like there were all the APIs years ago. Starting to port something doesn't work, when the API isn't available yet. Many of them are not fully specified up to today. And some APIs are just no longer available. Currently they are used low-level and may need an updated extension with each firefox upgrade, but they work. Then there is a stable API, but it just does not provide the needed functionality.
If they are sourced from AMO after they started signing, they will be no problem (not sure about expiring signatures). And if you want to use a source fork, you may be able to disable the signature check. Still not very convenient, if you just want to keep using an old version.
The real question is : Why didn't they teamed up with gtk and used gladexml for UI from the very start.
To tell me which installed plugins are going to die.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
I tend to browse with a lot of windows and tabs open. In this use case, Firefox typically consumes 100% of CPU for one core. If it becomes multi-process, it would end up consuming 100% of CPU of every core.
If the long-term plan for Firefox is to dump XUL and migrate to WebKit or one of its forks, then I have to wonder what would be the point of the resulting product. Users might as well migrate to Chrome, Safari, or Opera.
People need to quit building full programs in a lightweight scripting language, and go back to native fat applications.
And watch you become unable to use "native fat applications" made for an operating system other than the one your device runs.