Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

The Videogame Industry Is Fighting 'Right To Repair' Laws (vice.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the proprietary-consoles dept.

An anonymous reader quotes Motherboard: The video game industry is lobbying against legislation that would make it easier for gamers to repair their consoles and for consumers to repair all electronics more generally. The Entertainment Software Association, a trade organization that includes Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, as well as dozens of video game developers and publishers, is opposing a "right to repair" bill in Nebraska, which would give hardware manufacturers fewer rights to control the end-of-life of electronics that they have sold to their customers...

Bills making their way through the Nebraska, New York, Minnesota, Wyoming, Tennessee, Kansas, Massachusetts, and Illinois statehouses will require manufacturers to sell replacement parts and repair tools to independent repair companies and consumers at the same price they are sold to authorized repair centers. The bill also requires that manufacturers make diagnostic manuals public and requires them to offer software tools or firmware to revert an electronic device to its original functioning state in the case that software locks that prevent independent repair are built into a device. The bills are a huge threat to the repair monopolies these companies have enjoyed, and so just about every major manufacturer has brought lobbyists to Nebraska, where the legislation is currently furthest along... This setup has allowed companies like Apple to monopolize iPhone repair, John Deere to monopolize tractor repair, and Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo to monopolize console repair...
Motherboard's reporter was unable to get a comment from Microsoft, Apple, and Sony, and adds that "In two years of covering this issue, no manufacturer has ever spoken to me about it either on or off the record."

12 of 266 comments (clear)

  1. Re:definitions? by Goldsmith · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's interesting to read the background on this. It's really about warranties.

    Federal law is that a company can't insist that you use a particular vendor for repair or servicing to maintain a warranty. Now, that's unusual to think about because that's not what we're used to seeing in reality.

    The reality is that if opening or servicing the electronics is so convoluted and difficult that damage is nearly certain when anyone without training opens it, then the warranty is voided by that damage. The training materials and tooling that are used by companies to train their own people in how to properly repair the electronics without damage would be made available to consumers in "right to repair" legislation.

    If a company decides to make something that cannot be repaired... well, ok. It may be that laws like this simply push manufacturers to shut down their internal repair groups and stop supporting any warranty or repair at all.

  2. They did it to themselves by thundercattt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When you make HUGE price tags to repair items, people are going to repair it themselves. I previously worked for Lenovo/Asus repair depot. To replace an LCD was over $300. Part on eBay is about$60 takes maybe 10 mins depending on the model. So when you flease the customer long enough, they attempt it themselves because the $300+tax or buy a new one for $400. Most think I'll give it a shot for $50.

    1. Re:They did it to themselves by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you make HUGE price tags to repair items, people are going to repair it themselves. I previously worked for Lenovo/Asus repair depot. To replace an LCD was over $300. Part on eBay is about$60 takes maybe 10 mins depending on the model. So when you flease the customer long enough, they attempt it themselves because the $300+tax or buy a new one for $400. Most think I'll give it a shot for $50.

      I think the biggest issue for any repair shop is they can't deliver "I'll give it a shot" service. If it doesn't work, people aren't very likely to pay you $50 or even believe you really tried at all. If it turns out something else is broken too, they won't be very happy being stuck with a bill and a still broken machine. In fact you could end up in an argument about what was broke or if you broke it. If you do it yourself as a last-ditch attempt before throwing it in the trash you got nothing to lose, but deliver it to a repair shop and the customer will never accept that. They want a quote and a repaired machine for that price and you're burdened with the risk of delivering that. If those parts on eBay turns out to be faulty or shoddy knock-offs that don't quite work right or have quality issues that could become your problem too. Also if bad shit happens shortly after it comes from your shop they'll try to blame it on your repair, whether it's actually correct or not.

      All of this starts amounting to quite a bit of overhead, if someone comes in with a machine you probably can't make an off the cuff estimate. First you have to figure out roughly what's wrong, what parts costs, the time you'll spend and the risk you're taking then give a quote based on that. And very often the customer will say it's not worth it and go buy a new machine and that time is lost. And then you'll have customers who want time estimates or worse yet guarantees and you have supply chain issues you'll spend time dealing with customer complains and they might haggle or cancel their business and you might get stuck with the bill. And you will have all the ordinary business overhead of having a shop, maintaining an inventory and billing system, taxes etc. and people that don't ever come to collect or pay. And if you're shipping you will spent time wrapping and unwrapping, collecting and delivering, dealing with transport damage etc.

      I have some friends that are in the construction industry, they say pretty much the same. If you take away all the overhead, preparation and cleanup and just look at the time the handyman actually does this craft the hourly rate looks bizarre. But after dealing with "everything else" it's not like they walk away with that much per hour worked. It's the cost of doing it as a business, if they were just working on their own house they could do it way, way cheaper. It's simply a matter of trust and risk management, like I rented an apartment from an ex-classmate some years ago. Even though we weren't exactly friends he'd much rather rent to me than to some stranger, simply because he knew I'd be a no fuss tenant. The money is in easy business, dealing with complex and unique situations lie half-broken machines is often unreasonably time consuming and thus expensive. Getting a "known good" one off the assembly line often wins on simplicity.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  3. Re:definitions? by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Much of that "difficulty" is artificially introduced by the console developer, to discourage experimentation and reverse engineering attempts, in order to keep the console "secure."

    EG, things like the E-Fuses in the 360 preventing the flashing of older firmwares over the top of newer ones, etc.

    They ONLY reason they exist, *IS TO BRICK CONSOLES*, when people attempt to gain control of the console.

  4. Re:Terrible Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The point of the law is to make it so that farmers can repair their tractors and other equipment. In the past decade, big tractor companies have been locking down their machines using the DMCA. Since it could take days or weeks for a repairman to come by and fix it, and that time lost without the machine could cost the farmer their livelihood, it has put them in an impossible position. That this affects pretty much every other market besides farm equipment and vehicles is an unintended side effect of the computerization of everything and application of the DMCA to lock down all those things.

  5. Re:MS used to ban people for useing there own hdd' by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Want to know the actual difference between a "legitimate" HDD, and a not-legitimate one?

    A small PNG image file loaded onto some magic sectors, and an 8 byte magic number written directly afterward. The drive's firmware was default factory, but only a small handful of drives were supported.

    That image was of the microsoft logo.

    Yes. The presence or absence of that little png file is SO TOTALLY going to change how a game is played online. /s

    No-- Microsoft KNEW that they were vastly overcharging for a COTS component that was not special in any way except for the data stored on the platter, which is very inexpensive to replicate. They did not care. They were the gatekeepers, and were milking people dry by purposefully selling base systems without HDDs, or with very tiny ones, while pushing digital downloads.

    Know what else? When it came to the "USB" storage options, I put various very high speed USB2.0 devices that I had PERSONALLY TESTED the raw performance of and verified that they were bitching fast, on my 360 to see if MS was full of shit when the console did its own testing-- Sure enough, it was premium bullshit. It would consistently say the device did not meet recommended speed requirements. Know what I did? I went out and bought one of the shitty USB memory sticks MS was hawking, and tested it myself. It underperformed compared to the units I had been attaching. The magic? The USB string-- For real.

    Bullshit. Premium bullshit all around, and people just ignore it, because there is no alternative. Fuck that noise.

  6. Re: definitions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You're thinking direct computer hardware. Nebraska is thinking tractors and farm equipment. Locking farmers into long term hugely expensive repair contracts on absolutely critical pieces of equipment has become the norm for many "tractor" companies. When one piece of equipment costs millions and you need to spend thousands or more to recalibrate after some common mishap or loose your harvest then it's not so trivial.

  7. Re:MS used to ban people for useing there own hdd' by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Informative

    USB2.0 is faster than many optical disc drives, AC.

    For reference, the max bandwidth of USB2.0 is 480mbit, or about 60MB/sec.

    A typical DVD drive (we will even say that this is a fancy 12x drive, just to give it the benefit of the doubt), such as found in an xbox360, has a max potential bandwidth of 132mbits. (16.5MB/sec)

    So YES, AC. A "Fast" USB2.0 device is one that favors the top possible speed allowable by the bus, which mechanical disk drives have no problems whatsoever providing.

    The drives in question were capable of sustained sequential reads in excess of 40MB/sec, and arbitrary random reads of about 20mb/sec.

    The Microsoft branded flash module? about half that.

  8. Re:MS used to ban people for useing there own hdd' by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Informative

    That was because you had to mod the console to use your own HDD originally, you weren't banned for using your own HDD, you were banned for breaking the online service terms and conditions of not using a modded console.

    Those terms and service were illegal right on their face, because the Magnuson-Moss act prohibits voiding a warranty for a repair if the repair uses compatible parts. And the video game companies already lost the legal battle to prohibit people from using their trademarks as an unlock; if you make that the unlock, then you simultaneously give everyone permission to use it for that purpose.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Re:definitions? by msauve · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Federal law is that a company can't insist that you use a particular vendor for repair or servicing to maintain a warranty. "

    Federal law says no such thing. You're presumably referencing the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits

    conditio[ing] his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty)

    If warranty work is provided free (i.e. parts and labor warranty), there's no issue. In fact, the Act refers to the use of authorized agents:

    Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prevent any warrantor from designating representatives to perform duties under the written or implied warranty...

    No, a car manufacturer can't require you to get oil changes from their dealer, unless they provide those changes free as part of the warranty. But if a belt breaks, they can require you get it repaired at a dealer if you want warranty coverage, since the warranty pays for both parts and labor.

    You're probably also under the false impression that a warrantor has to somehow "prove" a user modification caused an otherwise warranted issue in order to deny coverage. Nope - if they want to say your engine warranty is voided if you hang fuzzy dice on the mirror, they can. They just have to state so clearly.

    Read the Act, it's short and not a hard read.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  10. Re: definitions? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Informative

    You're thinking direct computer hardware. Nebraska is thinking tractors and farm equipment. Locking farmers into long term hugely expensive repair contracts on absolutely critical pieces of equipment has become the norm for many "tractor" companies. When one piece of equipment costs millions and you need to spend thousands or more to recalibrate after some common mishap or loose your harvest then it's not so trivial.

    This. Why do you think it's starting in Nebraska?

    There are quite a few electronic objects out there that having nothing to do with Microsoft or Sony. There is a huge outcry amongst farmers and small industries with the trend towards essentially leasing complex expensive equipment even if you buy it. Farmers have been sued for the temerity of trying to fix their own gear. For John Deere stuff, you could not even buy parts that just plug into the system - they had to be 'installed' by the dealer. When they could get around to it.

    IIRC, Deere got some really bad press about that a awhile back and at least lets you plug things back in (that you buy at the Deer store). It is a much larger problem than a dead X-box.

    There are more things, Horatio, then are dreamt of in your philosophy.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  11. Re: definitions? by skr95062 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Exactly.
    John Deere is using copyright and the DMCA to keep the farmers who spend 150K+ on their tractor or farm equipment from working on their own property.
    Or is it really the farmers property? Apparently not according to Deere.
    That is why these bills are in farm country, the populous of these states don't care about game consoles or Blu Ray players, a tractor, absolutely, a game console not so much.
    The farmers want to be able to work on their property, Deere says otherwise.
    Take a read here: https://www.wired.com/2015/04/...
    here: http://modernfarmer.com/2016/0...
    and here http://www.npr.org/sections/al...
    All because software is used in a number of places in the vehicle ...
    Automobiles, now also because of software, are covered under the DMCA , can Ford or GM now claim the same as Deere?
    Sorry, but you really don't own that Ford GT 350 or that Corvette Sting Ray you think you own.
    How long before Ford, GM or any other automobile manufacturer for that matter do what Deere has done?
    The fact that they can do this, should scare anyone.
    That is why this type of legislation is needed everywhere.
    It is not about game consoles, it is about much, much more.
    The DMCA was bad legislation 20 years ago when it was passed.
    This really proves it.