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The Videogame Industry Is Fighting 'Right To Repair' Laws (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes Motherboard:
The video game industry is lobbying against legislation that would make it easier for gamers to repair their consoles and for consumers to repair all electronics more generally. The Entertainment Software Association, a trade organization that includes Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, as well as dozens of video game developers and publishers, is opposing a "right to repair" bill in Nebraska, which would give hardware manufacturers fewer rights to control the end-of-life of electronics that they have sold to their customers...
Bills making their way through the Nebraska, New York, Minnesota, Wyoming, Tennessee, Kansas, Massachusetts, and Illinois statehouses will require manufacturers to sell replacement parts and repair tools to independent repair companies and consumers at the same price they are sold to authorized repair centers. The bill also requires that manufacturers make diagnostic manuals public and requires them to offer software tools or firmware to revert an electronic device to its original functioning state in the case that software locks that prevent independent repair are built into a device. The bills are a huge threat to the repair monopolies these companies have enjoyed, and so just about every major manufacturer has brought lobbyists to Nebraska, where the legislation is currently furthest along... This setup has allowed companies like Apple to monopolize iPhone repair, John Deere to monopolize tractor repair, and Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo to monopolize console repair...
Motherboard's reporter was unable to get a comment from Microsoft, Apple, and Sony, and adds that "In two years of covering this issue, no manufacturer has ever spoken to me about it either on or off the record."
Bills making their way through the Nebraska, New York, Minnesota, Wyoming, Tennessee, Kansas, Massachusetts, and Illinois statehouses will require manufacturers to sell replacement parts and repair tools to independent repair companies and consumers at the same price they are sold to authorized repair centers. The bill also requires that manufacturers make diagnostic manuals public and requires them to offer software tools or firmware to revert an electronic device to its original functioning state in the case that software locks that prevent independent repair are built into a device. The bills are a huge threat to the repair monopolies these companies have enjoyed, and so just about every major manufacturer has brought lobbyists to Nebraska, where the legislation is currently furthest along... This setup has allowed companies like Apple to monopolize iPhone repair, John Deere to monopolize tractor repair, and Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo to monopolize console repair...
Motherboard's reporter was unable to get a comment from Microsoft, Apple, and Sony, and adds that "In two years of covering this issue, no manufacturer has ever spoken to me about it either on or off the record."
ok, so you're going to require manufacturers to make repair manuals and parts available to the general public. What's to stop them from writing in the manual, "purchase and install Comprehensive Assembly #012934" and selling that part which is basically a replacement for the entire unit? Who's to contradict them if they say that the unit is not serviceable?
...is why you are not required to only have the dealer repair your vehicle. Consumers must have the same freedom with electronic devices.
When you brought a Sony radio there would be a schematic sheet inside the case so you could repair the electrical device yourself.
When you make HUGE price tags to repair items, people are going to repair it themselves. I previously worked for Lenovo/Asus repair depot. To replace an LCD was over $300. Part on eBay is about$60 takes maybe 10 mins depending on the model. So when you flease the customer long enough, they attempt it themselves because the $300+tax or buy a new one for $400. Most think I'll give it a shot for $50.
Yes it is. If you own the item, then all of the rights of ownership are to be afforded to you. You get to do with it as you please, and that includes repairing it.
It's a derived right, to be sure, but it is a right, nonetheless.
Always your best friend until they get your money. Soon we will just be a rat getting a food pill in a cage.
Oh please. The scenario you described could be easily prevented by writing these Right to Repair laws so that requiring consumers to ship devices out of the country (or maybe even the state) is illegal, and consumers are entitled to a full refund from the retailer if a manufacturers tries this.
The point of the law is to make it so that farmers can repair their tractors and other equipment. In the past decade, big tractor companies have been locking down their machines using the DMCA. Since it could take days or weeks for a repairman to come by and fix it, and that time lost without the machine could cost the farmer their livelihood, it has put them in an impossible position. That this affects pretty much every other market besides farm equipment and vehicles is an unintended side effect of the computerization of everything and application of the DMCA to lock down all those things.
MS used to ban people for useing there own hdd's (much cheaper ones) in the 360. And the 360 used Ext case ones. At the same time the ps3 was open to any 2.5 one.
This reminds me of a true story that keeps rearing it's head up ever few years. A certain computer company charged their clients thousands of dollars to upgrade each of their mainframes. Sure enough the upgrade worked great. Without flaw. The Problem: All the technician did was flip a switch inside the machine. While this discussion is about repair service, it falls under the same logic. A lot of the little tweaks to fix something could be done with little or no cost.
Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
Exactly correct. The right to repair is a blatantly obvious ramification of ownership rights.
Dont be retarded. It can be serviced by something like u-boot and a functioning uart, or jtag interface. Things that are usually there, just without pins soldered on. I think the cost increase is about .01$ to populate those pins. The software in the device is ALREADY THERE to flash the firmware initially at the factory. Documenting how to connect, what the cable pinout is, the voltage, and providing a rescue firmware image online would meet the requirements.
This is not some crazy thing where they would have to add missing functionality. It is a situation where they just need to provide some docs, an online download, and populate some pins they already have pads for on their device, in 90+% of cases.
I can't tell you how many Atari joysticks I've broke — or fixed — back in the day. I even tried building my own light pen on a few occasions, but those things never worked.
Want to know the actual difference between a "legitimate" HDD, and a not-legitimate one?
A small PNG image file loaded onto some magic sectors, and an 8 byte magic number written directly afterward. The drive's firmware was default factory, but only a small handful of drives were supported.
That image was of the microsoft logo.
Yes. The presence or absence of that little png file is SO TOTALLY going to change how a game is played online. /s
No-- Microsoft KNEW that they were vastly overcharging for a COTS component that was not special in any way except for the data stored on the platter, which is very inexpensive to replicate. They did not care. They were the gatekeepers, and were milking people dry by purposefully selling base systems without HDDs, or with very tiny ones, while pushing digital downloads.
Know what else? When it came to the "USB" storage options, I put various very high speed USB2.0 devices that I had PERSONALLY TESTED the raw performance of and verified that they were bitching fast, on my 360 to see if MS was full of shit when the console did its own testing-- Sure enough, it was premium bullshit. It would consistently say the device did not meet recommended speed requirements. Know what I did? I went out and bought one of the shitty USB memory sticks MS was hawking, and tested it myself. It underperformed compared to the units I had been attaching. The magic? The USB string-- For real.
Bullshit. Premium bullshit all around, and people just ignore it, because there is no alternative. Fuck that noise.
Sounds a lot like ink cartridges.
Not really IMHO.
They are at the same level as people who buy industrial plant and expect it to last for decades as well.
They are buying commercial grade equipment and expect commercial grade parts availability instead of the cheap short lifetime stuff the retail consumer is expected to put up with. I once visited a foundry for an agricultural pump manufacturer. They had the patterns for up to 70 year old equipment and cast those parts every now and again to maintain their policy of "lifetime" support. While that's an extreme example that is what is sometimes expected of equipment that is used in production instead of the throwaway consumer items we are expected to put up with.
I sure am happy that I can repair my old pinball machines, that every nut and bolt has a part number so I can find a replacement part.
Addams Family Pinball Repair - Part 1 of 2, The Transistor
They sure wouldn't have lasted for 30 years without repairs.
They still fulfilled their role and made money for the original owner somewhere.
Now shut the fuck up and send more money.
Signed - Microsoft, Apple, Sony
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
USB2.0 is faster than many optical disc drives, AC.
For reference, the max bandwidth of USB2.0 is 480mbit, or about 60MB/sec.
A typical DVD drive (we will even say that this is a fancy 12x drive, just to give it the benefit of the doubt), such as found in an xbox360, has a max potential bandwidth of 132mbits. (16.5MB/sec)
So YES, AC. A "Fast" USB2.0 device is one that favors the top possible speed allowable by the bus, which mechanical disk drives have no problems whatsoever providing.
The drives in question were capable of sustained sequential reads in excess of 40MB/sec, and arbitrary random reads of about 20mb/sec.
The Microsoft branded flash module? about half that.
Where I live stores already have garbage bins for light bulbs, batteries, small electronic and electric devices like phones and toasters, routers, hair dryers and so on.
A busted Xbox 360 would easily fit in there. Some tiny "recycling" tax, maybe European, is advertised on high tech crap.
So while your idea is likable, the problem is it's already done, and it's too easy.
That was because you had to mod the console to use your own HDD originally, you weren't banned for using your own HDD, you were banned for breaking the online service terms and conditions of not using a modded console.
Those terms and service were illegal right on their face, because the Magnuson-Moss act prohibits voiding a warranty for a repair if the repair uses compatible parts. And the video game companies already lost the legal battle to prohibit people from using their trademarks as an unlock; if you make that the unlock, then you simultaneously give everyone permission to use it for that purpose.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Being able to get *access* to schematics and boardviews in a timely, and legal manner would be a real nice thing and one of the big pushes behind trying to get this "Right to repair" bill through. Seems a lot of the counter-fight is trying to detail how "poor dumb consumers" shouldn't be near this stuff in the first place ( and to a degree they're right ) as opposed to techs already skilled in the processes involved in the repair work., In reality what a lot of people such as myself and Louis Rossmann (who'll be there speaking in favour of the bill) would like to have is the ability to obtain the information required directly from the manufacturer, even at a fair-and-reasonable price.
In the old days (80's~90's) you could call up the service dept of most equipment manufacturers and for $15~$20 they would mail you the documents you wanted. These days you have to hope someone leaks it out to the internet. The businesses claim "trade secrets" but in reality there's nothing secret in those schematics, almost every section is pretty much a lift from the 'suggested/example layouts' from the part/chip manufacturer in the first place.
Ultimately it's all about preventing people from holding off buying a new product, but rebuffed under the guise of "safety" or "secrets".
It's not, or this wouldn't be a story.
You've got that backwards: it is, which is why there is a story. Lawmakers regularly pass new laws to make it explicitly clear that rights do, in fact, extend to particular areas. Our rights already exist there, but our ability to exercise them has been obstructed, and lawmakers are pushing back.
Manufacturers have gone to great lengths to prevent people from exercising their rights (e.g. licensing instead of selling, adding terms of usage that limit rights, etc., most of which have yet to be challenged heavily in court since the manufacturers are trying to avoid setting a precedent they don't like), and states are starting to push back, saying that those rights cannot be given up as a condition of sale or use.
Even if he does buy from them, if the majority won't, it may fail. The majority drags everyone with it.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
From the point where it is actually implemented, onwards.
The rights of people who have done no wrong are (okay, should be) higher priority.
Ideally, create fair laws that describe the bounds of legitimate behavior. Punish people who break these laws. Don't do things to people who are not breaking the law that prevent them from doing legitimate things based on the idea that someone, somewhere, might break the law.
The problem with DRM (Digital Rights Management) as it is presently constituted, is that the only rights that are being managed are those of the publishers. The rights of the consumer are being roundly trampled. It's appalling, really.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
If they ban all that, then maybe we should be looking elsewhere for entertainment. Money deprivation is a great deterrent for abuse!!
And the video game companies already lost the legal battle to prohibit people from using their trademarks as an unlock; if you make that the unlock, then you simultaneously give everyone permission to use it for that purpose.
Specifically, in the case Sega vs Accolade.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The Gameboy uses a similar trick - I mean the original one, the first. The firmware in the device (such as it is, it's really tiny) checks for the presence of a certain byte sequence, an encoded image. If the bytes match expectations, it gets displayed. If they aren't there, the firmware locks the device. That's why if you power it on without a cartridge in you see a scrolling blank box: The image is the Nintendo logo.
The intention was to use trademark law to prevent unlicensed publishers selling games: In order to make a game cartridge run on the Gameboy, it had to include the Nintendo logo, and thus any unlicensed publishers would get sued by Nintendo for trademark infringement. I understand that a later supreme court ruling determined that a trademark could not be considered a trademark if it was incorporated into a functional element, but that was post-Gameboy.
I'm guessing Microsoft pull the same trick. Perhaps it still works in some countries.
It doesn't have to be open-source, or even in an unencrypted format.
How do you think smartphone OEMs provide firmware images, despite containing proprietary licensed code?
If Apple and Samsung can do it (legally) than anyone else can too.