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Microsoft Thinks USB-C Isn't Ready For the Mainstream (digitaltrends.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the don't-shoot-the-messenger dept.

When Microsoft unveiled the Surface Laptop last week, it left many customers and members of the press scratching their heads over its lack of a USB Type-C port. According to general manager of Surface Engineering, Pete Kyriacou, Microsoft seems to think that the technology isn't ready for the mainstream. Digital Trends reports: Microsoft does not want customers to deal with the various Type-C cables, underwhelming chargers, all the adapters, and the third-party Type-C docks. That is why the Surface Laptop features only one USB 3.1 Gen1 Type-A port, one headphone jack, one Mini DisplayPort connector, and the Surface Connect port. Simplicity. That latter connection is how customers can "safely" expand their Surface device experience. Microsoft's $200 Microsoft Surface Dock adds two Mini DisplayPort connectors, one gigabit Ethernet port, four USB 3.1 Gen1 Type-A ports, and one audio out port. The dock connects to a compatible Surface device via Microsoft's proprietary Surface Connect port. Right now, it works with the Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 4, and Surface Book but the Surface Laptop will undoubtedly be added soon. While limiting a Surface device's connectivity seems like forcing customers into purchasing the dock, Microsoft sees this setup as brand stability. Customers won't get ticked at Microsoft because they are confused about the different types of cables, chargers, and so on. Microsoft is controlling the end-to-end experience and there is nothing wrong with that.

15 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft has good judgement

    1. Re:because by Beau1080p · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This time, yes. I like USB C and all. Features looked really cool, so I got a laptop that I can charge over USB C. But I ran into the same "early adopter" issues as I did when I got a USB 3.0 mobo around 2010. Bugs weren't all worked out and I ended up with errors causing the motherboard to reject the device or "unplug" it and it would randomly power back up hours later or if I swapped ports. Having the same problem now with USB C power supply. Give it another six months and it will be straightened out.

      So even by random chance, Microsoft is going to get one right every now and then. Don't be a hater, AC.

      --Beau

    2. Re:because by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This time, yes.

      I disagree. USB-C is clearly going to replace USB-A over time. It works well and provides high speed and good power connectivity. However not many devices support it yet so if you want a machine that you can use today and still use in a few years time the best bet is a machine which supports both USB-A and C. Instead we have Apple producing machines which will be great in a few years time but bad now and MS providing ones which are great now but will be a pain in a few years time....which is why I bought a Dell with both USB-A and C so I can use it now and in a few years time.

    3. Re:because by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem with USB-C is that there are multiple power levels and some of the cheap cables don't correctly identify their maximum current, so end up catching fire when plugged into something that can provide the higher power levels. Unfortunately, these are typically sold on sites alongside the ones that will work fine.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:because by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thunderbolt is a huge security hole. I'd rather not have the ability to plug things into my PCIe bus externally, thanks. At least with USB you have some hope of securing it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C by zerofoo · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have zero issue with my nexus devices and my MacBook - both use USB-C and I have yet to find a cable or device that doesn't perform as intended on any of the devices.

    The various flavors of USB are enough to drive someone to drink. USB-C is a welcome change that actually fulfills the promise of the word "Universal" in USB.

    I think Microsoft is just chickening out here.

    1. Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

      You: "I think Microsoft is just chickening out here."

      Microsoft: "Industry standardized interfaces are too confusing for people, they should use our proprietary, device specific one."

      I don't think that counts as "chickening out," it's Apple-like courage.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Aside from Thunderbolt (which is pointless with USB 3.1), micro USB already does all of that. The only benefit USB-C has is that it can be connected upside down, which isn't enough to outweigh the benefits of micro USB.

      MicroUSB does NOT provide video capability, unless you use one of those crappy dongles that does video compression. USB-C not only does actual full bandwidth video, but in the Thunderbolt 3 configuration it even provides a friggin PCI-e interface. They even make external GPU enclosures that allow you to run an actual desktop GPU on a laptop if you'd like, and it works pretty well.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Not only that, but in terms of physical durability, USB-C will WAY outlast MicroUSB.

    3. Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      You either have the world's worst external battery or are plugging it in to the wrong port. The way USB power supply works, the device has to detect that it is in host mode and negotiate with the device receiving charge before it will supply more than 100mA.

      So in order for your problem to manifest, your external battery must be acting as a USB device rather than as dumb charger or host. That suggests you either plugged in to the charge port instead of the output port, or the battery has a really really really terrible USB controller in it.

      USB-C is no more bidirectional than any other variant of USB. It's all negotiated over the USB protocol, just the same as older USB plugs and sockets.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. Both companies are insane by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple is dropping everything and only offers USB-C while Microsoft includes almost everything except USB-C.

    It's like both companies don't want to have transition periods between the present and the future.

    At least Microsoft isn't braindead and is keeping the traditional headphone jack. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  4. It's there. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My new laptop at work (ZBook 15 G3) has USB-C. It's everything USB should have been since the beginning.

    Reversible, Just Works(Tm). It'll drive 2 4k external TVs.

    Laptop itself has Ethernet, VGA, 3xUSB3.0 and 2xUSB-C ports. Holds 64GB of RAM, 2xM.2 NVMe drives and 1x 2.5" drive.

    The dock could still use some work. You shouldn't have to issue a white paper on how to hook up monitors (Which is still wrong, the HDMI port drives 4k just fine.).

    If I *need* to do some GPU work I can plug in an external GPU. Or gigabit ethernet or any other PCIe device.

    Microsoft screwed up on this one. They're releasing old hardware. I bet they could have easily charged a surface on over USB Power Delivery. It's taken us a while but USB-C is pretty damn good as far as a physical connection. And Thunderbolt 3 is equally as good of a protocol.

    For most people if the 'desktop is dead' it's because USB-C/TB killed it. I just want to plug my laptop into cluster of CPUs when I'm at my desk.

    1. Re:It's there. by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I *need* to do some GPU work I can plug in an external GPU. Or gigabit ethernet or any other PCIe device.

      Which means that your ZBook 15 G3 has a Thunderbolt-enabled USB-C port. But you've simply called it USB-C, which could also be merely USB 3 Gen2, USB 3 Gen1, or even technically USB 2. Which provides a perfect case study for Microsoft's point.

      I bet they could have easily charged a surface on over USB Power Delivery.

      Of course, you charge your device through the USB-C port, right? Nope! Your laptop still has a separate charging port. But USB-C should let you charge a device at up to 100W. Don't you have USB-C? You said it could easily be done. Why not?

      Which is Microsoft's point...

  5. USB C can't happen fast enough for me by steveha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    USB C is, finally, USB done right. The connector is small, which is good for small devices; there is only one connector (no A and B variants); since there's only one connector you don't need a huge variety of cables (just USB A to USB C plus USB C to USB C and you are covered for 99.9% of scenarios); the plug doesn't have a "top" or "bottom", it just plugs in; and it was even designed to deliver useful amounts of power (enough to charge a small laptop).

    My phone and my wife's phone are USB C and I just bought a Samsung Chromebook Plus, which charges by USB C (and it has two USB C ports, making it better than the Apple netbook). I'm planning to ask my employer to give me a laptop with USB C ports. I'm just waiting for a compact camera that uses USB C for charging and data and I'll buy that too. If I can manage it I won't buy another gadget with Micro USB or Mini USB ever again.

    So congratulations, Microsoft! You managed to give me yet another reason to not buy your mobile devices!

    P.S. I'm waiting for someone to make a kit that includes two or three USB C cables (USB C on both ends) plus a bunch of adapters: USB C to USB A, USB C to Mini USB, USB C to Micro USB, USB C to USB B, USB C to Ethernet jack, etc. Plus a USB to serial and USB to parallel and USB to IDE and SATA. It would be one kit that would let you connect almost anything to your laptop.

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  6. Remember 1995! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft is the same company that almost missed the Internet for Windows. When The Road Ahead by Bill Gates came out, it had no mentioned of the Internet. Gates and the publisher revised the book. You can't have a visionary missing one of the biggest technological developments of his time.

  7. Re:Mainstream by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sure. Gates and Ballmer. That isn't mainstream.