Slashdot Mirror
China Is On Track To Fully Phase Out Cash (vice.com)
An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a report via Motherboard: Experts believe it won't be long before China, the first country to introduce paper money, becomes the first to go totally cashless. In a poky sex toy shop in Sanlitun shopping district in central Beijing, a placard with a QR code is strategically placed next to a pink, vein-knobbled dildo called the Super Emperor, and a clitoral pump. Just scan your phone, and walk out with your purchase. The cigarette vendor across the street accepts smartphone payments too. A fast-moving queue of customers purchase smokes by scanning their phones over a tatty cardboard QR code. All the bars in Sanlitun, equal parts seedy and swish, still take cash, but have likewise implemented cashless pay, largely through the ubiquitous WeChat and Alipay app, as primary payment platforms. Beijing taxi drivers accept smartphone payments too. No one in the area uses physical money, for sex toys or otherwise. Largely due to China's vibrant fintech landscape, the recent rise of phone payments in the country has shunted cash onto the endangered list, perhaps somewhere alongside the pangolin. Many experts believe it won't be long before China, the first country to introduce paper money, also becomes the first to phase it out to become fully cashless. But when will this moment come?
Also known as "China wants us to believe that China Is On Track To Fully Phase Out Cash".
I've toured rural China with my Wife's family. Most folks outside the big cities only have power during the day, unless they are lucky and own a generator.
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
Phasing out cash is a great tool for every totalitarian system. Because then, you can only pay for something if you actually are allowed to by the government. Also, it allows for total big brother like surveillance.
The new tools that technology gives us allow for real strict totalitarian regimes, and it seems that China is seizing the opportunity.
Hard currency gives a person SOME freedom over goods and services they purchase. Make all transactions digital, no matter what, and the banks and governments can control what you buy, how much of it or denies it. Once it goes digital, the government can change a stupid law, tying anything to "healthcare". Sorry Bob...you last health check shows you to be 25 pounds over what WE SAY you should weigh...you can't buy that burger and fries, but we will let you buy a tofu salad and a glass of water (at double the price). Sorry Jill...according to our records, you have 2 accidents within the past year, both in SUV's, plus, you are spending way too much on fuel. You can't buy this new SUV, but, we have authorized purchase of a bicycle, and, your loan has been approved, but not for that house in the country. We think it would be best, if you have a smaller cramped apartment, near your job, so you can bicycle to work. This will also cut your carbon footprint, and help you exercise. Laugh now, but don't say it won't happen.
The author is hung up on sex toys - and possibly cigarettes.
#DeleteChrome
The people will immediately need to replace cash with some other token based system which will effectively become cash. It is not in the public's interest to phase out cash, it is about government control. How do you give your child pocket money? Tip to a beggar? Etc. etc. There are millions of situations where cash is best and a cashless society is not better in any way unless you are amongst the super rich or elite and making such decisions.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
It's what the cool kids use to pay.
slashdot: A failed experiment.
Phasing out cash is a great tool for every totalitarian system.
China is not totalitarian. They are authoritarian. There is a difference.
As long as they don't challenge authority, Chinese people actually have greater freedom to go about their lives than Americans do: Americans are four times more likely to be arrested and incarcerated by their government.
I imagine a small proportion of black slaves in America were arrested and incarcerated, as well. That's hardly the only measure of freedom, however.
"So long as you freely allow authoritarians to dictate what you can and can't do, without resisting or protesting" is a pretty big exception to freedom.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Bitcoin would like to have a word with you.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Not exactly a "bank account". An account managed by a cell phone company with convenience stores and such acting as tellers. Google M-PESA. The M-PESA system is said to work pretty well in Kenya and Afghanistan. Here's a link http://www.economist.com/blogs...
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
"So long as you freely allow authoritarians to dictate what you can and can't do, without resisting or protesting" is a pretty big exception to freedom.
Authoritarians do not "dictate what you can and can't do". That is "totalitarianism" and China is nothing like that. Chinese people are free to travel abroad, change jobs, associate with whoever they want, live where they want. The main difference between them and Americans is that they have less reason to fear the police.
I would rather have a US $100 dollar bill than an electronic promise to pay me.
Wechat is not a credit based system. You tap, and there is an immediate transfer of money from your account to mine. No "promise" is involved.
for the parasitic middlemen, sorry, payment platforms. I am really too stupid to get why people are willing to be dependent of a third party (who takes its percentage) in their payments in cases when banks aren't necessary to be involved. But, of course, smartphones are so cool, let's use them for everything.
In Europe interchange is more like 0,2 - 0,3% per transaction, which means 2-3 EUR per every thousand EUR spent - acceptable for all but the poorest. China has limits on interchange at 0,35 - 0,45%. Its only the US that commonly has fees about 5-10 times higher...
link about limits in China:
http://www.paymentlawadvisor.c...
I am not looking forward to the future where I need to have ten different payment apps installed on my phone (and my phone must NEVER run out of power!) in order to be sure I can buy the stuff I want on a shopping trip.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Great, so instead of getting a trial by jury, I am most likely to lose at great cost and expense for growing a coca or cannabis plant or poppy pod, I am likely to skip the 'fair trial' and go right to the organ harvesting.
Sounds like an improvement...
The federal reserve note is a *promise to pay*.
Nope. It hasn't been a promise to pay anything to Americans since FDR decided to steal all the gold in the country, and it hasn't been a promise to pay foreigners since Nixon reneged on the Bretton Woods treaty.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
No, the poster is worried that globally there is a trend towards cashless, or at least, the media reports on cashless as being the next "big thing". The only advantages that cashless bring are to the totalitarian state, and the middle-men who charge transaction fees. Living in the US I don't give a fuck if China goes cashless, but I do very much hope it does not happen here. Finally, yes, there are other social and political issues that are more important right now, but the topic of this discussion is the cashless trend in China.
Phasing out cash is a great tool to get alternative barter systems going. Human nature evolves around restrictions like a non-anonymous payment system.
In prison, for example, and during wartime, too, are packs of cigarettes a fine means of payment. Tobacco doesn't quickly go bad, you can divide a pack easily into smaller parts in case of smaller transactions and the barter even comes with a box to hold the small cash amounts together. The box makes it easy to count. And it's a commonality in prison. Thus, great as exchange of value when selling and buying contraband.
In total wartime, same thing. If cash leaves, other barter systems replace it. Immediately.
If digital currency replaces anonymous cash, and the digital currency is not guaranteed to be anonymous (if criminals can't use it); it'll get replaced. Immediately. I expect there to be alternative barter systems in China already. They will grow in popularity the moment it's no longer possible to pay and sell anonymously with the national currencies of China.
"Hi, yeah. I dropped my phone and it smashed, I need to buy a new one."
"Okay, no problem! Just swipe your phone here to pay for the new phone!"
"But my phone is destroyed ..."
"Sucks to be you, you're OUT of the game forever!"
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Government doesn't care a shit if you buy bunny-fur bondage gear or pay strippers.
But my wife does, and she sees the credit card bills.
...more Government Paradise. Now every transaction can be tracked. Those who buy the Super Emperor get that fact dished up next time they goof up at work. I do agree that hackers will love this, one flaw in the app and plenty can be compromised. I wonder what is needed to create an account? An address? A bank account? Scan of a photo ID? Asking otherwise, how easy will it be to get a cheap prepaid, hook it up to a bogus or stolen account, and then clean out shelves at stores without ever having to pay? Currently, if someone walks out of a store without paying good security will notice that. If walking out of the store without physically paying is the norm, how easy would it be to fake a successful QR scan and walk out? Also, how easy is it to tamper with the QR codes? Move a few blocks to a different spot and put a sticker over the original sign...sure, still paying the store money, but instead of 299 it is now 2.99.
You need a bank account for your pay check. I can't recall any companies other than the day laborer services that still pay in cash. Those who insist on not having a bank account are those who want to skip alimony payments. Otherwise it isn't as easy to claim that you only make 20k/year when it really is 120k.
Those who insist on not having a bank account are those who want to skip alimony payments.
Nice strawman, fuckface. Go off yourself.
Actually, he has a point. I worked in payroll over a decade and that was the large majority of them.
China has barely implemented a slightly functional credit card system. As with most stories from there, don't believe 99% of it. And of course its all about tracking people, not helping them.
It's impossible to walk out of the store without paying. I have not used cash for 6 months and only use wechat and alipay for every single purchase. I'll run through each of the payment mechanisms:
1. Small Shop
you take the goods, ask how much it costs, they say 24 rmb, you scan their qr code and type 24 press send and then the sellar hears 24rmb read out aloud by their phone. If not. You show them the purchase ok your phone.
2. Buying in a slightly larger store
You click onto the pay screen in either alipay or wechat. Every 15 seconds a new bar code is generated. The seller scans the items, scans your phone, money is automatically deducted from your account. Very similar to credit card transactions
3. Buying train tickets / stuff online
Select on the app, select alipay, opens up alipay. Click ok
4. Sending money to a friend
Scan their qr code from their phone, type in amount you want to send
Pretty much you can buy everything, it's really hard to get ripped off by anyone and it's available everywhere. Even some of the beggars now have Alipay/wechat
Government doesn't care a shit if you buy bunny-fur bondage gear or pay strippers.
But it's convenient to have that information and be able to use it to blackmail and/or put pressure on someone if it's convenient for them. For example, threatening to let the wife know, or simply discrediting someone by exposing their furry hobbies to the public at large.
Besides which, you assume that just because something's legal now it won't be made illegal. Not because the government gives a damn about that issue in itself, but because- again- it's convenient to be able to hold these "crimes" over peoples' heads if necessary.
The more that is known about you, the more power government- or anyone else- has over you.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Indeed. When recently the EU started phasing out 500 EUR bills "to fight terrorism", the lie was made immediately obvious when the Swiss National Bank made a statement that they a) saw no reason to phase out 1000 CHF notes (around 900 EUR) and that b) 1000 CHF bills had various legitimate use for example when buying a car with cash or when buying livestock.
The whole phasing out of cash is just an attempt to remove power from the citizens.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
who really carries cash anymore...
For any who think this would be a grand idea, consider how it can / will be abused.
Examples:
Every single purchase will be indexed and analyzed for whatever purpose. From the things you like, to the foods you eat, to hobbies you enjoy. Folks like Google have an orgasm every time they think about such a system. Make no mistake, it will be for sale / available to those with the funds for it and it will most certainly be used against you if / when the need arises.
Governments can effectively control your behavior because to step out of line in any way means they can just freeze your accounts and too bad if you have bills to pay or would like to eat this month. Perhaps you are identified in taking part in a protest they don't wish to see. Maybe they don't like your online opinions which run contrary to their own. Maybe you're a whistle blower. Etc. Etc.
Just KNOWING they can shut your life down by freezing your only financial means to survive will have a chilling effect on your behavior and you'll be far less likely to step out of line.
They want to watch and control every single aspect of your life at all times. What you watch, what you say / believe, down to how you act and think. Privacy of any kind does not mesh well with how they would prefer things to be.
You've read the above using your own government as a variable in the equation. Now replace your government with one that may not be quite as tolerant. Imagine what such a regime would do with this sort of system in place. You think you know what oppression is ? It would pale in comparison to what it will become.
Think of it as a Gorilla sized version of PayPal. Where if you do ANYTHING they disagree with, ( and the TOS can change with every new administration ) they simply shut off access to your funds. Only, this time, there isn't any alternative for you to fall back on and you're just SOL. Your life is effectively over until you agree to play the game by their rules. ( regardless if you agree with them or not )
I think I would prefer to keep the cash option available.