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China Is On Track To Fully Phase Out Cash (vice.com)

An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a report via Motherboard: Experts believe it won't be long before China, the first country to introduce paper money, becomes the first to go totally cashless. In a poky sex toy shop in Sanlitun shopping district in central Beijing, a placard with a QR code is strategically placed next to a pink, vein-knobbled dildo called the Super Emperor, and a clitoral pump. Just scan your phone, and walk out with your purchase. The cigarette vendor across the street accepts smartphone payments too. A fast-moving queue of customers purchase smokes by scanning their phones over a tatty cardboard QR code. All the bars in Sanlitun, equal parts seedy and swish, still take cash, but have likewise implemented cashless pay, largely through the ubiquitous WeChat and Alipay app, as primary payment platforms. Beijing taxi drivers accept smartphone payments too. No one in the area uses physical money, for sex toys or otherwise. Largely due to China's vibrant fintech landscape, the recent rise of phone payments in the country has shunted cash onto the endangered list, perhaps somewhere alongside the pangolin. Many experts believe it won't be long before China, the first country to introduce paper money, also becomes the first to phase it out to become fully cashless. But when will this moment come?

126 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. China wants us to believe... by I+kan+Spl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Also known as "China wants us to believe that China Is On Track To Fully Phase Out Cash".

    I've toured rural China with my Wife's family. Most folks outside the big cities only have power during the day, unless they are lucky and own a generator.

    --
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    1. Re:China wants us to believe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please specific the time of your visit. Twenty years ago, maybe.

    2. Re:China wants us to believe... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've toured rural China with my Wife's family.

      In which century? China's economy has risen eight-fold in the last few decades. You might want to visit again.

      Most folks outside the big cities only have power during the day

      Nonsense. There may be a few remote villages that still use generators, but that is not "most people". For 99% of Chinese, grid electricity is available and reliable.

      Their payment system doesn't rely on wall-power anyway. It is based on phones and the cellular network, which, btw, is faster, more reliable, and more ubiquitous than it is in America.

      I was in Shanghai earlier this year, and I hired a handyman to fix my toilet. When he was finished, he popped up a QR code on his phone, I scanned it with my phone, and the bill was paid.

    3. Re:China wants us to believe... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Their payment system doesn't rely on wall-power anyway. It is based on phones

      Oh? Then how are the phones charged? Magical pixie dust?

    4. Re:China wants us to believe... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Magical pixie dust?

      If you don't know how phones charge, it might as well be!

    5. Re:China wants us to believe... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Oh? Then how are the phones charged? Magical pixie dust?

      You don't need reliable 24/7 power to charge a phone. Cell towers have backup batteries, so they continue to work through outages.

      If you live off the grid, you can still have a cellphone.

    6. Re: China wants us to believe... by freax · · Score: 2

      Slashdot has finally finalized its registration system for monkeys? Great! That'll dramatically improve the average quality of comments.

    7. Re: China wants us to believe... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Slashdot has finally finalized its registration system for monkeys? Great! That'll dramatically improve the average quality of comments.

      Oooo ooo. Ooo oo AH AH AH oo oo AH AH AH AH AH!

      That said, you're not doing much for comment quality when you can't even tell neolithic philosophy from monkey talk.

      Stone age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Monkey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    8. Re:China wants us to believe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      sorry bill but this is just not true.

      I too lived in Shanghai. But China is a big country and it is a huge difference between Shanghai and some of the smaller inland cities. Not to mention real rural areas.

      And even in Shanghai, cash is prevalent, more than in the EU city I now live. The main reason to use electronic payments is the nuisance of paying any significant amount with 100 RMB bills.

      But try to go to a lokal market as any not upper middle class native and you will see cash everywhere.

    9. Re:China wants us to believe... by umafuckit · · Score: 1

      I did that last year too. I went to some very poor places that were pretty isolated. Often I was in a room where the only furniture was a table, a lamp, stools, and a 42" flatscreen. Familys will make big sacrifices for the flatscreen and it always ran.

    10. Re:China wants us to believe... by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Funny

      UBS-C allows you to charge a phone from another phone. It's phones all the way down.

    11. Re:China wants us to believe... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      So does regular USB with an OTG cable.

    12. Re:China wants us to believe... by lwmv · · Score: 1

      "There may be a few remote villages that still use generators". No villiages are still using generators. In 2015, the last remote group of 39,800 people in two villages, which are at an average altitude of more than 4,000 meters in the remote hinterland of the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau, were connected to China national grid. China has realised universal power access.

    13. Re: China wants us to believe... by nachtelfjeiu · · Score: 1

      Isn't that enough to charge cell phones and still have a cashless system work?

    14. Re:China wants us to believe... by Khyber · · Score: 3, Informative

      "In which century? China's economy has risen eight-fold in the last few decades. You might want to visit again."

      This fucking century. I do tons of business with China and once you get outside the major city areas it's fucking dirt poor rural areas.

      Perhaps you should try looking for real Chinese culture instead of sticking your ass in the metro areas.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    15. Re:China wants us to believe... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      " No villiages are still using generators."

      That's a fat lie. Go talk to the roughly 100 million Chinese living in abject poverty. Go stay in one of their villages which is not inside a metropolitan area.

      There are places in China where it's 100% infeasible to run power to. In those places live many people.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    16. Re:China wants us to believe... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      This has nothing to do with modernity, other than it is the dictator's Holy Grail of being able to track all financial transactions, and specifically, those of competitors to power.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    17. Re:China wants us to believe... by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Two years ago. Getting off the shiniest subway train in the newest and modernest part of Shanghai, the biggest city on Earth, right next to the glittering sky scrapers and high end shops, were street merchants toting their wares in hand-made wicker baskets slung to their backs with ropes and pushing crudely-made hand-carts.

      One renmibi banknote with a smiling portrait of Chairman Mao says they're not in a position to give up their paper currency any time soon.

    18. Re: China wants us to believe... by slazzy · · Score: 1

      Something tells me he already got a job in their propaganda department.

      --
      Website Just Down For Me? Find out
  2. Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitarians by NotInHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Phasing out cash is a great tool for every totalitarian system. Because then, you can only pay for something if you actually are allowed to by the government. Also, it allows for total big brother like surveillance.

    The new tools that technology gives us allow for real strict totalitarian regimes, and it seems that China is seizing the opportunity.

  3. phase out cash, BAD idea by p51d007 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hard currency gives a person SOME freedom over goods and services they purchase. Make all transactions digital, no matter what, and the banks and governments can control what you buy, how much of it or denies it. Once it goes digital, the government can change a stupid law, tying anything to "healthcare". Sorry Bob...you last health check shows you to be 25 pounds over what WE SAY you should weigh...you can't buy that burger and fries, but we will let you buy a tofu salad and a glass of water (at double the price). Sorry Jill...according to our records, you have 2 accidents within the past year, both in SUV's, plus, you are spending way too much on fuel. You can't buy this new SUV, but, we have authorized purchase of a bicycle, and, your loan has been approved, but not for that house in the country. We think it would be best, if you have a smaller cramped apartment, near your job, so you can bicycle to work. This will also cut your carbon footprint, and help you exercise. Laugh now, but don't say it won't happen.

    1. Re:phase out cash, BAD idea by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      Seriously? That would simply mean that there's going to be a cottage industry of proxy purchases. And a sufficiently stupid evil government can do all the activities from your list right now, no need for all-electronic transactions.

    2. Re:phase out cash, BAD idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're right. The Soviet Union tried it and failed.

      Millions were malnourished because proxy purchases inevitably destroyed the value of everything.

    3. Re:phase out cash, BAD idea by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      The US is building its own form of soviet union 2.0 (minus the overt political/philosophical figureheads at least ftm), except this time it will be enforced by computer. I predict greater disasters ahead.

    4. Re:phase out cash, BAD idea by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      I favor legislation where people who have too many accidents aren't allowed to own SUVs.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  4. Obvious takeaway from TFA by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Funny

    The author is hung up on sex toys - and possibly cigarettes.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Obvious takeaway from TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      TFA author is a cocksmoker.

    2. Re:Obvious takeaway from TFA by vlad30 · · Score: 1

      first thing I noticed is the Chinese had a thing for white people

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    3. Re:Obvious takeaway from TFA by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Had to look it up. Seems it's 13" long. If we get rid of cash that seems appropriate. That's what'll screw us over and over again every day. For that reason we should all be saying - HELL NO! Keep cash.

      I went through the bank being closed in the 1980s. It's not fun. Whatever cash you have is what you have. If there is no cash because we're all cashless... you're really screwed. Can't get gas, food, anything. You can try it today. Right now, go for a month with whatever is in your pocket right now. ATM won't help, can't use your credit cards either. In a real cashless situation you wouldn't even have the cash in your pocket.

      It's really bad to not have cash. The government can track everything you do.

  5. Why? by Zemran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The people will immediately need to replace cash with some other token based system which will effectively become cash. It is not in the public's interest to phase out cash, it is about government control. How do you give your child pocket money? Tip to a beggar? Etc. etc. There are millions of situations where cash is best and a cashless society is not better in any way unless you are amongst the super rich or elite and making such decisions.

    --
    I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    1. Re:Why? by Cyberax · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How do you give your child pocket money?

      Send it to their phone. Children can use WePay just as well as adults.

      Tip to a beggar?

      Get rid of beggars.

      There are millions of situations where cash is best

      Not really, apart from illegal drug purchases.

    2. Re:Why? by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      According to the article:

      "Outside the capital, beggars have been spotted with QR codes hanging around their necks to accept digital donations."

      Probably Obama-phones or something.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are millions of situations where cash is best

      Not really, apart from illegal drug purchases.

      Do you want a paper trail leading back to:
      -pornographic purchases?
      -medications? (how about STD or mental illness stuff)
      -books? (will people become too embarrassed to purchase 50 Shades of Gray or Harry Potter because it's too childish? How about political books? How about D&D books? Do you know as many closet nerds as I do?)
      -larps
      -donations to political parties
      -support groups

      Look, I could do this all day. Everything is potentially embarrassing. Advertisers would cream in their pants for this information and it's a dystopia nightmare for everyone else.

      Have you noticed people getting shy about googling stuff now that they know they're being tracked online? Imagine that shyness extending to EVERYTHING. Every purchase. So basically everything.

      Plus, if you actually physically have money, the government can't just disappear it with the click of a button, if they decide they want to be evil. I mean, more evil than usual. I don't really want to play the hitler card, but governments sometimes misbehave.

      Privacy is a human right and cash is the only scheme that preserves it.

      You can fuck around with you debit card and your credit card all you like, but cash you can take from my cold dead hands.

    4. Re:Why? by freax · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't worry. Before we need to take cash from your cold dead heads; society will have replaced currency with a different barter system. Happened plenty of times in history. Especially in times of currency crisis, war, etc. Also look at prisons to learn how micro societies deal with the problem: in many prisons are packs of cigarettes the popular means of payment.

    5. Re:Why? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Do you want a paper trail leading back to:
      -pornographic purchases?
      -medications? (how about STD or mental illness stuff)
      ....

      Cashless purchases don't mean publicly available purchase history. And the government doesn't care a bit about your porn habits (as long as it's legal). Also treating yourself for STDs without getting regular blood tests to monitor progress is extremely stupid.

      Have you noticed people getting shy about googling stuff now that they know they're being tracked online? Imagine that shyness extending to EVERYTHING. Every purchase. So basically everything.

      Newsflash: people already buy most of their stuff using credit cards, especially Internet pr0n.

      Plus, if you actually physically have money, the government can't just disappear it with the click of a button

      They sure can. Just put you into jail for contempt of the court until you pay up. Seriously, if you're depending on cash to protect you from government then you've already lost.

      1) Privacy is a human right and 2) cash is the only scheme that preserves it.

      1) No it isn't. 2) No it isn't.

    6. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cashless purchases don't mean publicly available purchase history.

      In practice, it will.

      1) No it isn't. 2) No it isn't.

      1) It is according to the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights and it's strongly implied by the US's 4th Amendment.

    7. Re:Why? by GNious · · Score: 1

      Tip to a beggar?

      Get rid of beggars.

      Might be wrong, but was told from a few sources that handing cash/goods to a beggar is illegal in China.

    8. Re:Why? by freax · · Score: 1

      It's anonymous, so who cares? Your chances of getting caught are too slim to care too much. Note that this only counts in environments where using national currency for similar transactions ain't anonymous (buying goods from a minor without parental consent is illegal too, so if you'd do that with non-anonymous currency then you'd also face jail-time). In such an environment you're best bet is indeed to exchange his used phone for a few packs of cigarettes. You can buy the packs legally (still) in any counter with non-anonymous currency, the boy can sell the phone in exchange for the packs, and his dad will probably give him non-anonymous national currency in return for it.

    9. Re: Why? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Mentally ill beggars or the ones who are physically or mentally incapable of work should get help in the form of housing, healthcare and a reasonable monetary help.

    10. Re:Why? by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

      >> How do you give your child pocket money?
      >
      > Send it to their phone. Children can use WePay just as well as adults.

      Lemeesee... after all the fighting to prevent kids (and their parents) from being ripped off with "in-game purchases", you now want your kid running around with a debit/credit card, or a phone hooked up to your credit card?!? No thanks. I'm sure that cellphone companies would just ***LOVE*** to have every family with a husband and wife and 2 kids end up with 4 cellphone accounts. And banks would just ***LOVE*** to charge that family 4 sets of annual fees for debit/credit cards.

      --

      I'm not repeating myself
      I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  6. I Don't Buy It by tquasar · · Score: 1

    Sensational horse crap. Cash talks, E-money is full of risks and problems. I would rather have a US $100 dollar bill than an electronic promise to pay me.

    1. Re:I Don't Buy It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The federal reserve note is a *promise to pay*. It may be legal tender, but it's not really money.

      Wrong. It is money because people will accept it as payment therefore it serves the purpose of a universal, or near enough, medium of exchange. Despite what the gold bugs would have you believe, precious metals are nothing special. We don't use them anymore and haven't now for over 100 years because they aren't practical for daily transactions or larger ones either. For example, even when we were still on the gold standard, the US printed $100,000 Federal Reserve Notes simply so that they wouldn't have to move large stacks of gold bricks in between cages in the vaults. It was easier to move a few pieces of paper around instead of the cart load of gold bricks. The money commodity must satisfy certain requirements to be effective. It must be scarce enough to hold value over time, but not too scarce to prevent necessary transactions from happening. It must be universally and instantaneously recognized as money. Finally, it must be accepted by a power strong enough to regulate and protect it's monetary qualities and the economic system in which the money circulates. That last one is incidentally a big problem for cryptocurrencies today, they have no military might to back up their scrip.

    2. Re:I Don't Buy It by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      I would rather have a US $100 dollar bill than an electronic promise to pay me.

      Wechat is not a credit based system. You tap, and there is an immediate transfer of money from your account to mine. No "promise" is involved.

    3. Re:I Don't Buy It by Calydor · · Score: 2

      I am not looking forward to the future where I need to have ten different payment apps installed on my phone (and my phone must NEVER run out of power!) in order to be sure I can buy the stuff I want on a shopping trip.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    4. Re:I Don't Buy It by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The federal reserve note is a *promise to pay*.

      Nope. It hasn't been a promise to pay anything to Americans since FDR decided to steal all the gold in the country, and it hasn't been a promise to pay foreigners since Nixon reneged on the Bretton Woods treaty.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    5. Re:I Don't Buy It by jcr · · Score: 1

      Despite what the gold bugs would have you believe, precious metals are nothing special.

      Bullshit. The value of gold has never gone to zero, as all fiat currencies eventually have.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    6. Re:I Don't Buy It by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Seriously. How backwards are Americans? I haven't carried cash on me in years (except when giving people money for birthdays or buying something at some cheap asian store that refuses to accept EFTPOS because they're too cheap to pay the bank fees).

    7. Re:I Don't Buy It by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Seriously. How backwards are Americans? I haven't carried cash on me in years (except when giving people money for birthdays or buying something at some cheap asian store that refuses to accept EFTPOS because they're too cheap to pay the bank fees).

      Those networks that process debit and credit transactions have been known to go down and become inaccessible at inopportune moments. Sometimes it is a regional outage, and sometimes it is local (or just an individual store). In those cases, those who don't carry cash are completely SOL and have to abandon their shopping carts, while those who do carry can make their purchases and get on with their next activity of the day.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    8. Re:I Don't Buy It by Aisha.Washington · · Score: 1

      Despite what the gold bugs would have you believe, precious metals are nothing special.

      I see. Well, that must be why the U.S. government confiscated everyone's gold and threw those who retained any in cages.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

      Aw, heck, they confiscated everyone's table salt and bread too. No, wait. No they didn't.

      Even today, it's not terribly easy to find 24K gold in American jewelry stores, as "14 Carat Gold" has supplanted it in the minds of Americans, because for the longest time, that's all you could legally buy.

      Gold has been premium currency since biblical times, just like the Federal Reserve Note. Wait, make that UNLIKE the US Dollar. Fiat currencies come and fiat currencies go, but gold is the only one that's survived for thousands of years, and maintains significant value even today. It's why untold numbers of people risked their lives to obtain it in our own country during the Gold Rush.

      But you're right.

      There's nothing special about it.

    9. Re:I Don't Buy It by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Gold was worth pretty close to zero where I live before the white men showed up. Somewhat common rock that was pretty well useless unlike things like jade which could be used to make a good arrow head or even seashells that were quite rare far away from the ocean. The there were useful things like Ooligans that not only were food but also could be burned like a candle for light, only available at certain times of the year and hard to transport.
      Gold is just a natural occurring, pretty, rare fiat currency.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  7. Bitcoin, anyone? by FrankHaynes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's what the cool kids use to pay.

    --
    slashdot: A failed experiment.
  8. Gratuitous product placement by chrism238 · · Score: 1

    Warning! The summary contains gratuitous product placement, designed to entice us to read the article. Still, I guess if a flower shop was accepting cashless transactions, it wouldn't be as interesting, would it?

  9. dupeception by fibonacci8 · · Score: 1

    Experts believe it won't be long before China, the first country to introduce paper money, becomes the first to go totally cashless.

    Many experts believe it won't be long before China, the first country to introduce paper money, also becomes the first to phase it out to become fully cashless.

    You managed to dupe your own article within itself, is that a record?

    --
    Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    1. Re:dupeception by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You managed to dupe your own article within itself, is that a record?

      No

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  10. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Phasing out cash is a great tool for every totalitarian system.

    China is not totalitarian. They are authoritarian. There is a difference.

    As long as they don't challenge authority, Chinese people actually have greater freedom to go about their lives than Americans do: Americans are four times more likely to be arrested and incarcerated by their government.

  11. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by mentil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I imagine a small proportion of black slaves in America were arrested and incarcerated, as well. That's hardly the only measure of freedom, however.
    "So long as you freely allow authoritarians to dictate what you can and can't do, without resisting or protesting" is a pretty big exception to freedom.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  12. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by mentil · · Score: 2

    Bitcoin would like to have a word with you.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  13. Re:Hackers Paradise by vtcodger · · Score: 2

    Not exactly a "bank account". An account managed by a cell phone company with convenience stores and such acting as tellers. Google M-PESA. The M-PESA system is said to work pretty well in Kenya and Afghanistan. Here's a link http://www.economist.com/blogs...

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  14. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

    That's when members of a community go "fuck it", and start bartering. None of that labor then gets tracked and/or collected on in the form a tax.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  15. Wait what about the fees? by sims+2 · · Score: 1

    So everyone is just ok with paying an extra 3% per transaction? On top of taxes?

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    1. Re:Wait what about the fees? by jarkus4 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In Europe interchange is more like 0,2 - 0,3% per transaction, which means 2-3 EUR per every thousand EUR spent - acceptable for all but the poorest. China has limits on interchange at 0,35 - 0,45%. Its only the US that commonly has fees about 5-10 times higher...

      link about limits in China:
      http://www.paymentlawadvisor.c...

    2. Re:Wait what about the fees? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      For things like bank-transfers it is even lower. Many banks have stopped charging customers for bank-transfers in Europe.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Wait what about the fees? by sims+2 · · Score: 1

      Wonder how long till it's like that here.
      Imho it's going to have to be like that where the percentage is near inconsequential or the gov't is just going to have to cover it for the US to go cashless.

      I think they should cover it since they want everyone to go cashless and they will pretty much eliminate the cost of constantly replacing cash and coins.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
  16. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    "So long as you freely allow authoritarians to dictate what you can and can't do, without resisting or protesting" is a pretty big exception to freedom.

    Authoritarians do not "dictate what you can and can't do". That is "totalitarianism" and China is nothing like that. Chinese people are free to travel abroad, change jobs, associate with whoever they want, live where they want. The main difference between them and Americans is that they have less reason to fear the police.

  17. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Cyberax · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Oh, seriously. Stop that crap. Government doesn't care a shit if you buy bunny-fur bondage gear or pay strippers. And by paying in cash and carrying a gun you don't fight oppression, you're just being an idiot.

    Nope. Real fights for freedom are won and lost at courts, political rallies and in elected offices.

  18. Re:Hey BeauHD! Question! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
  19. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    I think you're making a distinction without a difference. "as long as they don't challenge authority" applies to both countries. The question is in how restrictive the authorities are.

  20. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    The question is in how restrictive the authorities are.

    Indeed. That is why I specifically mentioned that the risk of having your door kicked down in the middle of the night, and the police hauling you off to jail is four times higher in America.

  21. Re: Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitar by fubarrr · · Score: 1

    >Americans are four times more likely to be arrested and incarcerated by their government.

    Because American police does its job better

  22. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    they have less reason to fear the police.

    Yeah, it's the army they have to deal with...

    I kid! I kid! I'm sure they had a perfectly good reason to.... what did they do to that guy?

  23. That is a huge win by dschiptsov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    for the parasitic middlemen, sorry, payment platforms. I am really too stupid to get why people are willing to be dependent of a third party (who takes its percentage) in their payments in cases when banks aren't necessary to be involved. But, of course, smartphones are so cool, let's use them for everything.

    1. Re:That is a huge win by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I believe that the governments would have already taken care of payment platforms and made sure that something like this is a must have for phones tablets, almost like the emergency calling

      Also, how would China be ahead of India in this regard? India started last year by getting rid of its biggest denomination notes, and the public, rather than risk seeing their money rendered worthless, quickly jumped on the e-money bandwagon. All India needs to do is phase out their remaining denominations - 100 & lower - and they'd have beaten China in all this

    2. Re:That is a huge win by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      All I remember reading is what a huge nightmare it was, people running around in India looking for cash, empty ATMs, people lining up, etc.

  24. More like phasing out credit/debit cards by danielcolchete · · Score: 1

    So, that article could have been written, including the unnecessary sex shop details, about a lot of countries in the world where debit cards and/or credit cards are accessible to most people. Yeah, Visa and MasterCard seem to be going in the same direction as Kodak, they don't want to change their business because they don't want to lose money right now.

  25. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Great, so instead of getting a trial by jury, I am most likely to lose at great cost and expense for growing a coca or cannabis plant or poppy pod, I am likely to skip the 'fair trial' and go right to the organ harvesting.

    Sounds like an improvement...

  26. Brown enevelopes by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    China ... also becomes the first to phase it out to become fully cashless. But when will this moment come?

    If I had to guess, I would say that time is when officials stop accepting bribes and criminals stop trying to sell stolen goods. But the real and final end to cash is when the drug dealers accept cards, don't mind having a fully auditable trail of their transactions and start giving receipts.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re:Brown enevelopes by gweihir · · Score: 1

      As the whole drug-dealing business is just a result of artificial scarcity imposed by the religious fuckups that think they can dictate what others can and cannot enjoy, this will eventually happen.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Brown enevelopes by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      And daily, I deal with kids who ignored this artificial scarcity, and now their beautiful freedom to take various drugs has made them a continual burden on society, as their ability to think and focus blew away like a coat of dust on a windy day.
      They're permanently screwed.
      And please don't tell me that legalizing it would have kept any of them from doing this. That the edgy members of society would have suddenly started checking into clinics to accept their prescribed doses of narcotic.

  27. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    No, the poster is worried that globally there is a trend towards cashless, or at least, the media reports on cashless as being the next "big thing". The only advantages that cashless bring are to the totalitarian state, and the middle-men who charge transaction fees. Living in the US I don't give a fuck if China goes cashless, but I do very much hope it does not happen here. Finally, yes, there are other social and political issues that are more important right now, but the topic of this discussion is the cashless trend in China.

  28. Re:Hackers Paradise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yeah, they got something similar in Mexico. Now the long lines moved from the banks to the convenience stores. I think they're doing it on dialup. Cash is still safer.

  29. Not a great idea by o_my_ghosh · · Score: 1

    Demonetisation recently happened in India. It is not a good idea in principle even. A) You keep paying middle-parties (mobile wallets, payment systems, card companies) on every transaction, so either the buyer or the seller loses out because of that. B) The idea that cashless societies reduce corruption is not true. It is not necessary for the corrupt to keep their money in cash form. They transfer it to tax havens.

  30. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Yes, I suppose as long as you confine your activities to working your 18hr shift at foxconn like a good socialist cog and never rock the boat, everything's 'great.' Your stat is meaningless, if it's even accurate, because the countries are not on even keel when it comes to human rights and civil liberties.

  31. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by freax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Phasing out cash is a great tool to get alternative barter systems going. Human nature evolves around restrictions like a non-anonymous payment system.

    In prison, for example, and during wartime, too, are packs of cigarettes a fine means of payment. Tobacco doesn't quickly go bad, you can divide a pack easily into smaller parts in case of smaller transactions and the barter even comes with a box to hold the small cash amounts together. The box makes it easy to count. And it's a commonality in prison. Thus, great as exchange of value when selling and buying contraband.

    In total wartime, same thing. If cash leaves, other barter systems replace it. Immediately.

    If digital currency replaces anonymous cash, and the digital currency is not guaranteed to be anonymous (if criminals can't use it); it'll get replaced. Immediately. I expect there to be alternative barter systems in China already. They will grow in popularity the moment it's no longer possible to pay and sell anonymously with the national currencies of China.

  32. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    4 times more likely compared to what statistics? Last time I checked every major city in China plays dirty with their statistics. What? People died in a car accident... nooo, they arrived dead at the hospital, they were announced dead there... see, not a direct cause from a traffic accident.

  33. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Sometimes courts, rallies, and elections don't work (eg: this last one).

  34. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Cyberax · · Score: 1

    And so you're going to pay cash to fix that. Yeah, right.

  35. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    Who said 'just' paying cash will 'fix' the problem of governmental abuse? It can help mitigate the problem by denying the opportunity for mass abuse in the first place. No one said it was a total solution. Same thing with weapons, though they're usually brought out when people are at their wits end, en masse.

    Sounds like you're more interested in punching holes in bad left wing stereotypes of the right than anything else.. Strawmen are so boring.

  36. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Except the whole living permit thing. Such a shame you and 100,000 of your fellow citizens are now only allowed to live and work in Xinjiang, conveniently displacing the local Muslim population with superior Han stock.

    Of course you don't have to move. But of course it would be a crime to do anything else.

    China is annexing sea and land owned by other nations and continue to march via coercion or violence towards their idealized ethnic monoculture and we get people like ShanghaiBill here defending them at every turn. They are doing what Germany did, just in very slow motion.

  37. 1984 was childs-play. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    It's amazing how outdatet and steam-agey 1984 seems from a 2017 perspective. The encroachment on total control of the individual would be beyond anything imaginable 30 years ago if this Smartphone Cash thing gains foothold and pushes cash away.

    It's definitely a pressing time to get a good look into cryptocurrency.

    My 2 eurocents (cash).

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  38. Re:people without phones by Calydor · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Hi, yeah. I dropped my phone and it smashed, I need to buy a new one."

    "Okay, no problem! Just swipe your phone here to pay for the new phone!"

    "But my phone is destroyed ..."

    "Sucks to be you, you're OUT of the game forever!"

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  39. And when the finance IT crashes? by AxeTheMax · · Score: 1

    When something like the WannaCry affects the finance systems, and there is no cash, how will people get the immediate basics like their groceries?

    1. Re:And when the finance IT crashes? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The later this happens, the larger the catastrophe. Stupidity, nativity and greed will make sure it will happen. Technology these days is nowhere near as secure as it needs for this to be dependable enough to perform a critical function.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  40. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by nukenerd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Government doesn't care a shit if you buy bunny-fur bondage gear or pay strippers.

    But my wife does, and she sees the credit card bills.

  41. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    Phasing out cash is a great tool to get alternative barter systems going.

    Mod this up. Bartering will spring up inevitably within any "cashless" society.

  42. Re:Hackers Paradise by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...more Government Paradise. Now every transaction can be tracked. Those who buy the Super Emperor get that fact dished up next time they goof up at work. I do agree that hackers will love this, one flaw in the app and plenty can be compromised. I wonder what is needed to create an account? An address? A bank account? Scan of a photo ID? Asking otherwise, how easy will it be to get a cheap prepaid, hook it up to a bogus or stolen account, and then clean out shelves at stores without ever having to pay? Currently, if someone walks out of a store without paying good security will notice that. If walking out of the store without physically paying is the norm, how easy would it be to fake a successful QR scan and walk out? Also, how easy is it to tamper with the QR codes? Move a few blocks to a different spot and put a sticker over the original sign...sure, still paying the store money, but instead of 299 it is now 2.99.

  43. Re:Hackers Paradise by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 2

    You need a bank account for your pay check. I can't recall any companies other than the day laborer services that still pay in cash. Those who insist on not having a bank account are those who want to skip alimony payments. Otherwise it isn't as easy to claim that you only make 20k/year when it really is 120k.

  44. Re:Hackers Paradise by Rockoon · · Score: 1

    You need a bank account for your pay check.

    Since when?

    A check is a financial instrument. Upon that check is the name of a bank. That bank must honor its financial instruments. Take the check to that bank. If they wont turn it into cash, call the police.

    If your employer insists on direct deposit, call your State labor board because thats probably not legal in your State. State labor laws are quite specific about things.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  45. Found the LUDDITE! by aussie_a · · Score: 1

    ONLY apps can app apps, NOT LUDDITE currency!

    Apps!

  46. Re: Hackers Paradise by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Those who insist on not having a bank account are those who want to skip alimony payments.

    Nice strawman, fuckface. Go off yourself.

  47. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Bitcoin would like to have a word with you.

    Bitcoin is not different in any way. Was that your point? Because if not, ROFL.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  48. 3% of GDP goes to Visa/MC by DogDude · · Score: 1

    "Cashless" society" means that 3% of the entire economy goes to Visa/MC. It would be the largest corporate handout in history.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  49. Re: Hackers Paradise by knightghost · · Score: 3, Informative

    Those who insist on not having a bank account are those who want to skip alimony payments.

    Nice strawman, fuckface. Go off yourself.

    Actually, he has a point. I worked in payroll over a decade and that was the large majority of them.
    China has barely implemented a slightly functional credit card system. As with most stories from there, don't believe 99% of it. And of course its all about tracking people, not helping them.

  50. Re: Hackers Paradise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    It's impossible to walk out of the store without paying. I have not used cash for 6 months and only use wechat and alipay for every single purchase. I'll run through each of the payment mechanisms:
    1. Small Shop
    you take the goods, ask how much it costs, they say 24 rmb, you scan their qr code and type 24 press send and then the sellar hears 24rmb read out aloud by their phone. If not. You show them the purchase ok your phone.
    2. Buying in a slightly larger store
    You click onto the pay screen in either alipay or wechat. Every 15 seconds a new bar code is generated. The seller scans the items, scans your phone, money is automatically deducted from your account. Very similar to credit card transactions
    3. Buying train tickets / stuff online
    Select on the app, select alipay, opens up alipay. Click ok
    4. Sending money to a friend
    Scan their qr code from their phone, type in amount you want to send

    Pretty much you can buy everything, it's really hard to get ripped off by anyone and it's available everywhere. Even some of the beggars now have Alipay/wechat

  51. Re: Hackers Paradise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tell the military it is illegal to require DD, only way to get your military pay for over 30 years has been direct deposit.

  52. Anti Crime Delight ! by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    In the US if we tracked what people spend we would find that many spend more than they possibly can explain and have some sort of tax avoidance or crime going on. if spending data is tracked and weighed against earnings reported as well as expenses on credit cards and loans we will have to find a way to deal with tens of millions of criminals. For example, there are people who make a living burglarizing automobiles. They sell what they steal and have no way at all to account for how they get by in life. With automated payments being the exclusive way to purchase these folks can be rounded up rather quickly. It also means that those that purchase stolen goods can also be caught quite easily. My personal guess is that more than half of adult Americans have some illegal activities going on from time to time. Can you imagine an illegal bookmaker trying to explain his income? Can you imagine the guy that makes illegal bets with that bookie trying to explain where his money went or came from? How about the girls in the strip clubs? Do you think they report most of their income? So just how can they explain their purchasing habits? You can not spend money you do not have. Where did the money come from? But the best question is can America survive without all the crime that goes on? Can we afford to catch, process and punish all the criminals? Can you imagine the horrors when some congregations learn exactly what their minister spends and earns? Can wives live with the strange transfers of money that the husbands spend on call girls or massage parlors? Can men stay married if they really can't cheat? Honesty might be viewed as an interesting problem.

    1. Re:Anti Crime Delight ! by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      The government won't go crazy strictly enforcing laws on the population using data from cashless transactions. They don't want people to stop buying drugs, paying bookies, strippers, etc. As "Dr. Ferris" says in "Atlas Shrugged" in his monologue to Reardon: "We *want* these laws to be broken...when one doesn't have enough criminals one makes them...you cash in on guilt."

      They just want the data so that if someone becomes "inconvenient" all it takes is a brief perusal of the target's transaction history to find something...anything...to arrest & imprison him for and/or destroy his credibility and his reputation. Selective enforcement will be the game played.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  53. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Dogtanian · · Score: 2

    Government doesn't care a shit if you buy bunny-fur bondage gear or pay strippers.

    But it's convenient to have that information and be able to use it to blackmail and/or put pressure on someone if it's convenient for them. For example, threatening to let the wife know, or simply discrediting someone by exposing their furry hobbies to the public at large.

    Besides which, you assume that just because something's legal now it won't be made illegal. Not because the government gives a damn about that issue in itself, but because- again- it's convenient to be able to hold these "crimes" over peoples' heads if necessary.

    The more that is known about you, the more power government- or anyone else- has over you.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  54. IT security is not there yet by gweihir · · Score: 1

    They will run into severe security issues sooner or later. Especially mobile phone security is so bad these days it is staggering. My guess would be that at the moment, these payments do not offer enough pay-off if hacked, but that can change at any time.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  55. So are the phones tracked too? by TheOuterLinux · · Score: 1

    How do they expect people to not just walk out with goods? You can't put antitheft on everything. Next step is all stores replaced by vending machines and then the lines will just come back again anyway. Facial recognition for security cameras only work on white Europeans. On top of which, tech companies act like they can use AI to detect whether or not your a "risk," so good luck buying anything if you're just having a bad day. And by going cashless, your government can bankrupt you in a heartbeat because it's all just data. With no paper trail to use as evidence, can you imagine that argument with a bank teller, especially with the lame brains they hire now, if there's even going to be a human to talk to in the next few years?

  56. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by gweihir · · Score: 2

    Indeed. When recently the EU started phasing out 500 EUR bills "to fight terrorism", the lie was made immediately obvious when the Swiss National Bank made a statement that they a) saw no reason to phase out 1000 CHF notes (around 900 EUR) and that b) 1000 CHF bills had various legitimate use for example when buying a car with cash or when buying livestock.

    The whole phasing out of cash is just an attempt to remove power from the citizens.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  57. Re: Hackers Paradise by dougdonovan · · Score: 2

    who really carries cash anymore...

  58. Think how this could possibly be abused by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For any who think this would be a grand idea, consider how it can / will be abused.

    Examples:
    Every single purchase will be indexed and analyzed for whatever purpose. From the things you like, to the foods you eat, to hobbies you enjoy. Folks like Google have an orgasm every time they think about such a system. Make no mistake, it will be for sale / available to those with the funds for it and it will most certainly be used against you if / when the need arises.

    Governments can effectively control your behavior because to step out of line in any way means they can just freeze your accounts and too bad if you have bills to pay or would like to eat this month. Perhaps you are identified in taking part in a protest they don't wish to see. Maybe they don't like your online opinions which run contrary to their own. Maybe you're a whistle blower. Etc. Etc.

    Just KNOWING they can shut your life down by freezing your only financial means to survive will have a chilling effect on your behavior and you'll be far less likely to step out of line.

    They want to watch and control every single aspect of your life at all times. What you watch, what you say / believe, down to how you act and think. Privacy of any kind does not mesh well with how they would prefer things to be.

    You've read the above using your own government as a variable in the equation. Now replace your government with one that may not be quite as tolerant. Imagine what such a regime would do with this sort of system in place. You think you know what oppression is ? It would pale in comparison to what it will become.

    Think of it as a Gorilla sized version of PayPal. Where if you do ANYTHING they disagree with, ( and the TOS can change with every new administration ) they simply shut off access to your funds. Only, this time, there isn't any alternative for you to fall back on and you're just SOL. Your life is effectively over until you agree to play the game by their rules. ( regardless if you agree with them or not )

    I think I would prefer to keep the cash option available.

  59. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by freax · · Score: 1

    Anonymity might be removed, too. This is fine as long as you work with (as in, for or pro) the system that has eyes on all purchases and transactions taking place.

    For example if that system allows a certain amount of (big fish) criminal activity to take place in (or with, within) its currency (world), then it might not be a problem (for the system).

    And this would or could actually be beneficial for said system (and its ruling elite and powerful huge fish). As then the big criminal fish are easily detected, and can be taught to play by the rules of the truly elite and powerful huge fish. Ie. their gas company gets suddenly taken over by the state, and they get imprisoned for treason. Things like that. Happens every few decades, and then it's all over in the news and foreign powers are suddenly mad and pissed that their lobbyist dogs are no longer in power.

    The small fish and their petty criminal activity won't harm or endanger the huge truly elite and powerful fish. So for the system it's perfectly fine to allow certain amounts of criminal stuff going on within the national currency system.

    But take away the anonymity of the small criminal fish, and they'll start trading in anonymous barter, instead of the currency published by the huge truly elite and powerful fish. This, however, enables the big criminal fish to trade with aforementioned same small criminal fish in ways that the truly elite and powerful fish can monitor nor control.

    You see. It wasn't turtles but fish all the way down.

    Truly elite powerful fish that announce inter-banking interest rates, print money, make poor suffering honest fish pay taxes, police them, etc down to big criminal fish to small criminal fish to poor suffering tax paying honest fish. Just like the food-chain. Like everything in nature.

    It's beautifully evil.

  60. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by freax · · Score: 1

    (note, I'm indeed a scuba diver)

  61. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

    I agree completely -- except for your implication that anonymity is largely useful for criminal activities. Leaving aside the difference between crime and immorality, anonymity is an important cornerstone of free speech. As Snowden said, all serious sociopolitical change that has ever happened started with politically or socially incorrect speech being bandied about anonymously or privately. Democracy itself started as a illegal and socially unacceptable movement.The idea that the common man should hold the power of a nation was utterly toxic to yesterday's kings. You could be hanged for speaking of it. At that time if it were possible, as today, to so closely monitor the speech of the common man all progress would have halted. Which is indeed what our overlords today want to happen.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  62. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by freax · · Score: 1

    Oh, absolutely. Don't worry. I want anonymity, encryption and all that for the same reasons Snowden needed it and free speech to flourish. But only if a currency allows it, will criminals use it. Similarly are the smarter criminals already increasingly using truly anonymous communication systems like OTR, Tor, etc.

    Interestingly are the terrorist-criminals not using much of that. I guess that's because they calculate that they only need to stay alive until the moment they'll strike society. And if they'd use communication systems that don't disappear in the masses of normal-civil communications, then that could be dangerous for their sleeper-cell companions who'll strike later.

    But selling and buying stolen goods? Stuff that matters? Tor, OTR, Bitcoin (or dodgecoin), etc. Of course.

  63. It is easy to underestimate the cost of cash. by doomday · · Score: 1

    What many people don't realize or account for is the overhead and risk incurred by tracking and securing large quantities of cash, which can be up to 6% of revenue and is ultimately tacked on to the cost of goods. Cash is very expensive and time consuming once all factors including labor management and counting are added up. Those fees to payment processors can actually save time and money, reduce accounting complexity, and minimizes the opportunities for either theft or people putting their hand in the till. That said, there are many valuable reasons for cash to exist.

  64. Re:people without phones by unixisc · · Score: 1

    The other aspect of this is that not every smartphone owner is an Android or iPhone user. There are still people who use Blackberries, Lumias and other phones out there.

    I think that for this to work, any payment technology would have to work not only w/ the leading platforms - iOS & Android - but also w/ as many legacy platforms - older Android versions that can't be upgraded, Blackberry OS, Windows Phone 8 & above, and so on. And if possible, 2G phones as well. Only then can this move away from cash succeed. Or else, this will be like the move to digital TV. Unlike TV, which everybody does not have to have, money ain't that optional, so governments can't force people to migrate to the platforms of their choice.

  65. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Well, don't commit crimes. Duh.

    Way to go to miss the point being made. Unless you genuinely *did* mean that you'd be the obsequiously-deluded type happy to avoid behaviour that people in free countries consider basic rights, but which have been criminalised in this case.

    Not that the intention is that you're supposed to be able to follow them anyway, but that the government/regime can catch you in one of a million ways under laws that are impossible to follow.

    I've no doubt that even under a non-maliciously written legal system in a free country, the vast majority of people commit multiple technical breaches of the law every day if you wanted to pry far enough.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  66. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by acrimonious+howard · · Score: 1

    Mod parent up. Interesting that few other "developed" countries are even mentioned in the graphic.

  67. Re: Hackers Paradise by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I suspect that the military have quite a few exemptions from normal employment laws.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  68. Re:Hackers Paradise by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    ...more Government Paradise. Now every transaction can be tracked. Those who buy the Super Emperor get that fact dished up next time they goof up at work.
    I do agree that hackers will love this, one flaw in the app and plenty can be compromised. I wonder what is needed to create an account? An address? A bank account? Scan of a photo ID? Asking otherwise, how easy will it be to get a cheap prepaid, hook it up to a bogus or stolen account, and then clean out shelves at stores without ever having to pay? Currently, if someone walks out of a store without paying good security will notice that. If walking out of the store without physically paying is the norm, how easy would it be to fake a successful QR scan and walk out? Also, how easy is it to tamper with the QR codes? Move a few blocks to a different spot and put a sticker over the original sign...sure, still paying the store money, but instead of 299 it is now 2.99.

    Stealing? I bet the losses with paperless money yields a ten times lower rate of loss due to shoplifting than otherwise. You may need your cellphone to release an item from the display case. The analogy, look at how you purchase gasoline. The vendor trades electronic payment to armed robbery or guards the business from the clerk giving himself 2o gallons of gasoline without the dispensing being financially recorded.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  69. Re: Hackers Paradise by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Cash is still king. You should have no less than 10,000 cash available to you in case there's a run on the bank, or such. If you don't, history shows us you can be wishing you did. Some people I know have over 50K. Not necessarily at their house. Your house is usually the first place they look.

    From experience I can tell you, the ATM saying closed and the bank saying we're closed... and you tune into the radio to find out there's a crisis is no fun. This happened to me in the 1980s. Wife, kids, bills to pay, makes you real mad. Whatever is in your wallet may be what you have to use for months. I was lucky, I didn't lose any money. A few of my friends only recovered 10 cents on a dollar. I think some people didn't even get that. People that had their money in Old Court Savings and Loan.

    Never let the government get rid of cash. It's too tempting to bullshit people. They will if they can. They'll play with the money and next thing you know, you can't do anything. No gas, food, etc. If it gets real bad, no electric.

    The dildo in the article is so appropriate for this reason. No cash and you can get screwed good.

  70. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

    It's simpler than that. If a central authority controls all payment, they can eliminate you simply by removing you from the system. You can't eat, you can't buy anything, you can't travel. you have no way to pay anyone.

  71. i've been wanting this for years! by iq145 · · Score: 1

    There is no downside to not using "cash". It should be obsolete by now http://www.newser.com/story/18... The U.S. is behind the times http://news.slashdot.org/story... (We'll just need to increase cyber security)

  72. Re:Phasing out cash is a great tool for totalitari by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    That's a very good point too.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).