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Hillary Clinton Rips 'Bankrupt' DNC Data Operation (axios.com)

An anonymous reader shares an article: Hillary Clinton slammed the DNC's 2016 campaign data operation Wednesday, saying she had "nothing" to work from once she won the nomination. She lamented that Donald Trump was able to walk into a well-funded and thoroughly-tested data operation, while she was forced to build hers largely from scratch. Axios conducted over two dozen interviews with experts associated with the Trump and Clinton data and advertising operations earlier this year, and while many sources agreed with this sentiment off the record, no campaign or DNC staffers used language as strong as Clinton did Wednesday to publicly to condemn the DNC's data enterprise. Further reading: "I take responsibility for every decision I made, but that's not why I lost," says Clinton.

85 of 524 comments (clear)

  1. Wipes her server with a cloth by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now she is a data scientist ?

    The laughs never stop with this woman. I'm with her 2020.

    1. Re:Wipes her server with a cloth by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Wow....I"m just amazed that she can't come to grips with the base fact that she was NOT a good politician, doesn't have a good public personality, and the charisma of a small soap dish.

      Her husband, was one of the best politicians ever....for some reason she cannot fathom that she is the polar opposite of that.

      I grew up in AR with her as first lady of the state, and she was just as dislikeable (sp?) then as now. This is nothing new for her.

      But I guess...ego won't allow for true self exploration, and she's having to try to blame everything and everyone external to herself to get through this.....

      She can't deal with the fact that she is not a beloved person like her husband was (to a very broad swatch of the US), and even to an extent Obama was to her party.

      After this loss, she should really fade away and allow the youth of the Democratic party to start coming up through the ranks to help try to get themselves back on target.

      I'm not a Democrat, but even I can see that she and many in power are holding them back at this point, and that getting someone that *is* likable, charismatic, younger and can connect with the millennials out there would make them a very formidable party.

      Hell, I really fear that as that they might really make successful pushes to get pretty far left progressive legislation through....so, I make these thoughts at my own detriment as that I don't agree with the extreme progressive agenda, but if that's what you want, then you most likely need Hillary to get off the damned public stage and bring in "new talent".

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Wipes her server with a cloth by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why does this negate the fact that the DNC needs to review their Data Analytical operation? After all, practically everyone who spoke about election predictions from the DNC had Clinton winning the Electoral College easily.

      Well, I'd think any smart political party, would conduct a Data Analytical operation review each year, to learn from previous year, as that things are in constant change.

      And it wasn't just the DNC that predicted her easy EC win...look at most all of the talking heads on TV, and most all polling companies....they had it wrong too.

      What they didn't see and didn't take into account, were the folks that had been somewhat silent in past election years, those that aren't out shouting loudly about this social justice or this inequality....but lower-middle and lower income workers, that have seen and continue to see their jobs and way of life being ripped away from them. Yes, they may often be heterosexual caucasian too (hey, not that there's anything wrong with that)....and they see all the whoopla about every other minority, or possible category of sexual preference being elevated constantly in the discussions, and they were basically tired of being not only ignored, but in many ways persecuted for being what would previously been termed as "normal white American working families".

      I also think that the liberal hive mind that is centered primarily in the northeast and far west of the country, somehow assumed that pretty much everyone in the US saw the country and path to the future exactly as they did, with little if any meaningful numbers of people disagreeing with them. I think this may also be due, somewhat, to what we see with the progressive side constantly shouting down more conservative speech....and this has been going on in a more subtle manner on the national news scene for decades now, so that you never really saw much conservative speech or opposing conservative thoughts on mainstream media, and hence...when you don't see it, you assume it isn't there at all.

      I think many of these general thoughts were large contributing factors for many of the polling elite missing a hidden undercurrent of scorn for the more liberal progressive agenda being pushed.

      And also...perhaps no one wanted to admit, that Hillary is just NOT a likable person, much less a charismatic candidate. Many assumed her coronation would be just that...that it was manifest destiny for her to be president.

      This also kinda blinded them that not everyone thought that way.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Wipes her server with a cloth by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      practically everyone who spoke about election predictions from the DNC had Clinton winning the Electoral College easily.

      It wasn't just the DNC, it was just about every poll out there. Trump didn't have a chance. There is a video montage of all the people saying "Trump will never be president". All of them MSM, and DC inbreds, not just the DNC and Hillary campaigns.

      The stunned pundits from NBC to CNN and heck, even FOX was surprised. The data people everywhere failed. Except Trumps, who spent time and money on states he was pretty much "wasting" his time and effort on, states he won.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:Wipes her server with a cloth by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "likable, charismatic, younger and can connect with the millennials"; they HAD three out of four with Sanders. Many people just "gave up" when he was pushed out, especially the Millennials; who actually now outnumber the boomers in numbers of voting-age people. Sanders would have been a radical change as well, but in the opposite direction of Trump / Clinton. Unfortunately, much of the US electorate aren't educated enough to comprehend "socialist democrat" != "communist" and would be completely bewildered by a European-style system that has dozens of different parties, platforms, etc. We in the US have been conditioned to only work with two parties...so it's "us" vs "them" with nothing possible in-between. The parties often switch sides, absorb any break-aways, etc. With a winner-take-all system, the math just ends up with only two parties.

    5. Re:Wipes her server with a cloth by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      The fact is that Clinton didn't lose by much, and her poll numbers were hit by Comey's talk about emails at the last minute. This was a loss, not a landslide.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. Delusional by Train0987 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    She inherited the most advanced political data operation in history from Obama. Is there anything she won't blame besides herself? P.S. They're going to run her again in 2020, just watch.

    1. Re:Delusional by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Biden should run in 2020. The Onion articles would be epic. This country needs to laugh again.

    2. Re:Delusional by taiwanjohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here's my quick, off-the-cuff list of things she could have done to win:
      1. Show up in Wisconsin during the campaign at least once.
      2. Show up in a union hall in Michigan at least once.
      3. Make yard signs available to her supporters. (Apparently Robby Mook thought them "old fashioned".)
      4. Select an even mildly inspiring running mate, instead of Mr. Boring, Tim Kaine.
      5. Tell Obama to stop lobbying for TPP while she's ostensibly running against it.
      6. Have a clear message about why she wants to be president, not just that she's "the most qualified candidate in history".
      7. Run on a core set of important issues, instead of being for a laundry list of vague "good things".
      8. Don't spend 75% of your ad money on anti-Trump "he's a bad man" spots (spend it on #7, above).
      9. Tell Debbie Wasserman-Schultz to stop rigging the primaries, so that when Podesta's emails get leaked, there's no "shenanigans" to get exposed.
      10. Don't have a private email server in your closet, so there's nothing for James Comey to investigate in the first place.
      11. Don't give speeches to Goldman Sachs for $225k a pop just a few years after the financial crisis, and just a couple of years before the election.

      I could go on, but my fingers are getting tired...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    3. Re:Delusional by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Wait, I thought Trump was going to be comedy gold for comedians and late night TV hosts?

      Laughing in sheer horror isn't the same as laughing in sheer fun.

    4. Re:Delusional by king+neckbeard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're assuming the Dems won't run Hillary's corpse over someone people actually like.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:Delusional by kenh · · Score: 2

      She didn't inherit "the most advanced political data operation in history", Obama took it and kept it as "Organizing For America" - an absolutely non-political organization that has never had it's 501C(3) status questioned, despite it being his entire "Obama For America" re-election committee...

      --
      Ken
    6. Re:Delusional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      P.S. They're going to run her again in 2020, just watch.

      I doubt it.

      she tried in 2008 and if it wasn't for Obama she had a good chance of winning but between her and Obama, Obama was the stronger candidate. She almost went rogue and was going to run as an independent candidate but a backroom deal was probably made where she would be given a position in Obama's cabinet and in 2016 the DNC would put all of their weight behind her.

      When the 2016 election started up she was the lead democrat and all the others running were just token canidates, except for Sanders, he was a rogue element that wasn't planned for. The problem with Sanders is he was the better candidate but the DNC promised Hillary the nomination. In the end we saw the DNC do everything possible to stop Sanders from getting the nomination, because of this they damaged their voter base.

      Taking the fact that the DNC wasn't being faithful to the members of its party, Hilary's email server and the fact that she wasn't a strong, charismatic candidate. Despite what people think about Trump he is a political outsider and he is the first presidential candidate from a major party that isn't a career politician. Even Obama served on local and state positions before getting elected to the senate. When Trump did his speeches, there was energy and power, he had passion, you didn't see that with Hillary. In fact she passed out during the 9/11 ceremony, which granted Trump is not a model of health but he had no problem traveling across the country talking to different groups multiple times a day.

      Taking all of this into account, Hillary isn't going to get a third try. She isn't a strong candidate and after loosing to Trump I doubt that the DNC wants to run again. Instead it makes more sense to build up numerous existing democrats that appeal to voters and have the DNC allow its members decide who should be their candidate in 2020.

    7. Re:Delusional by js3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meanwhile Trump does everything 10 times worse, breaks all the rules, a hypocrite and lies all the time (even about the things he accused Hillary of), is into nepotism, taken more vacations in 150 days than Obama did in 4 years.. I mean should I go on?

      but no doesn't matter. it's all Hillary's fault.

      --
      did you forget to take your meds?
    8. Re:Delusional by Train0987 · · Score: 2

      What existing Democrats? They have no bench. The corrupt DNC has locked out anyone who doesn't toe the Globalist line and they've been decimated locally the past several years. There isn't anyone under 70 in a position to win the nomination.

    9. Re:Delusional by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Kathy Griffin, is that you?

      Comedy Gold right there, not the severed head, the hypocritical "apology" and all the people saying "I forgive her" who won't forgive anybody with an (R) after their name for anything.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    10. Re:Delusional by taiwanjohn · · Score: 3, Informative

      but no doesn't matter. it's all Hillary's fault.

      Yeah, exactly. This election should not have been close. Any decent candidate should have whupped Trump's ass by a comfortable margin. Hell, polls showed Bernie Sanders beating him by double digits in the week before the election -- at a time when HRC was only a couple of points ahead.

      And in fact she did beat him by a couple of points, just not in the states where it mattered! So yeah... it WAS her fault.

      By the way, don't blame me. I voted for her. (Much fucking good it did me...)

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    11. Re:Delusional by Shatrat · · Score: 2

      Nothing person A does wrong excuses any actions of person B. No matter how many people Stalin killed, Hitler is still Hitler. No matter how incompetent and sleazy Trump is, Clinton is still who she is and has done what she has done, and that's why she'll never be President.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  3. Blamethrower for President in 2020 by mschaffer · · Score: 2

    So, do you think she will run roughshod over the DNC to run again in 2020?

    1. Re:Blamethrower for President in 2020 by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2

      So, do you think she will run roughshod over the DNC to run again in 2020?

      I would say that Democrats couldn't possibly be stupid enough to nominate her again ... but on the other hand, they knew exactly how bad a candidate she was and nominated her anyway in 2016. So I wouldn't count her out.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    2. Re:Blamethrower for President in 2020 by Train0987 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The DNC is stacked with Clinton loyalists and they've done everything possible to remain in control after failing so miserably and being exposed as corrupt. That's what "The Russians!" narrative is all about: an excuse for the commoners not to replace their own leadership. Does anyone really believe that a single Trump voter is now saying to themselves "Wow, Russia tricked me!". Hell no, it's meant for the dopes to have something else to blame instead of the corruption of their leadership.

    3. Re:Blamethrower for President in 2020 by Train0987 · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Clinton did have more votes than Trump" Wrong. Trump had more votes: 304 to 227.

  4. Re:Hillary never set foot in Wisconsin either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    OMG like did you know that Drumpf literally lost by 48 MILLION votes. like come on, he only got elected because of some antiquated system invented by white slave owners to suppress and disenfranchise people like transgender muslims. Blumpf is literally HITLER reincarnated and will shortly begin killing everyone who opposes him, most likely because he has tiny hands and needs to overcompensate due to his MAJOR deficiencies. Did you hear on CNN that cheetos face only won because a team of Russian spies, personally led by Vladimir Putin, let all the air out of the tires of Hillary voters so they literally couldn't vote in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. These Russians are pure evil. Like there was a report that someone who worked for Trump had a deal with someone in Russia at some point in the past, so I know that literally means Putin hacked the election and personally changed the outcome. We are literally at war with Russia right now. We need to find out who in the government is sympathetic to or literally working with the Russians right now. We need hearings and investigations to root out all these people, and we need loyalty tests for everyone. Hell there could be MILLIONS of Russian sympathizers or spies in the government right, at least that's what Buzzfeed told me this morning. Why this small handed orange Hitler wasn't impeached 5 minutes after he took office is baffling to say the least. I'm LITERALLY shaking right now at the thought of him destroying the planet. It's hilarious watching him crash and burn, but in all seriousness, we can't let this monster get the nuclear codes. Michael Moore said it would be the end of all life on earth, and he's always right.

  5. Translation: by sciengin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Its not my fault I lost"

    After failing both 2008 and 2016 for the exact same reasons, namely that people really really hate her character and dishonesty, she still does not get it.
    I guess there really is no cure for stupidity.

    1. Re:Translation: by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Hillary lost the 2008 election because Obama played a better numbers game than she did. She should have won the 2016 election but didn't do enough to keep Trump from winning the three states he needed to get into the electoral college. If she runs for 2020, then there is no cure for stupidity.

  6. Here, let me tell you why you lost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dear Hillary,

    Please shut the fuck up.

    I am a liberal democrat. I have been for 40 years. I have always voted for the Democrat, but not this time. I could not in good conscience pull the lever for you, and it was not because of Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders (I am not a socialist).

    Here, let me tell you why this liberal democrat, who has never abstained from pulling the (D) lever in a presidential election, did so for the first time in 2016.

    It is because you are quite possibly the WORST person ever to walk the face of the Earth. You are self-serving, corrupt, and bought and paid for by dark special interests that you don't want us to know anything about. You are closed. You are opaque. You refuse to be transparent or even part way honest about anything. You are the OPPOSITE of what a liberal democrat is supposed to be. You are, for all intents an purposes, a totalitarian statist, not a liberal democrat who works for the people. Your husband is a saint next to you (and I had no problem voting twice for him, and would do it again today).

    Plus, I am fairly certain you are going to die soon. Your iron-fisted secrecy around your obvious medical conditions could only lead someone to this conclusion.

    So, in summary. You are corrupt. You are a bald-faced liar. You do not work for the American People. You are the worst possible choice for President.

    Sincerely,
    An American Liberal Democrat

    1. Re:Here, let me tell you why you lost... by CrashPoint · · Score: 2

      Trump would like to believe that he's the Iron Fist, but he's really more one of those big plastic Hulk gloves.

  7. It's all in a slogan by PackMan97 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I'm with Her" is what lost her this race. It highlights a self centered, corrupt, egoist. It was basically all about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary. "She's with me" would have been a far better slogan. Push a narrative that she is with the people and understand what the common person is going through. Instead of Hillary and her campaign shouting "Me, Me, Me", they should have been shouting "You, You, You"...and that's why Trump won the union states and beat Hillary. One would think that Bill Clinton's spouse would have gotten better advice. His "I understand your pain" approach in 1992 was as brilliant as Hillary's 2016 campaign was stupid.

    1. Re:It's all in a slogan by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "I'm with Her" is what lost her this race. It highlights a self centered, corrupt, egoist. It was basically all about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary. "She's with me" would have been a far better slogan. Push a narrative that she is with the people and understand what the common person is going through. Instead of Hillary and her campaign shouting "Me, Me, Me", they should have been shouting "You, You, You"...and that's why Trump won the union states and beat Hillary.

      To be fair, Trump was pretty "Me, Me, Me" as well. In his acceptance speech, he said "Only I can do this, only I can do that, only I blah, blah, blah." Hillary's slogan "I'm with Her" was really just a euphemism for "I want a female president, it's our turn!"

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:It's all in a slogan by Triklyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      'make america great again', vs 'i'm with her'

      do you actually doubt that that's what they want to do? you might disagree with what defines great, you might disagree with how to get there... but i don't think anyone could actually reasonably argue that anyone in a 'maga' hat at one of those rallies didn't want the best for america.

      i'm with her... yes? no? i don't really know because i don't know where that woman stands... and i should because I should have access, as an american, to every unclassified email she sent as secretary of state :)

    3. Re:It's all in a slogan by anegg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In fact, if some folks in the US want anyone to blame for Trump being President, they should blame Hillary Clinton...

      I know people who voted for Trump specifically as an "anyone but Hillary" vote. They might well have voted for Sanders if he had been offered up.

    4. Re:It's all in a slogan by Train0987 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The vast majority of Trump voters were in reality voting against Clinton, not for him.

    5. Re:It's all in a slogan by kenh · · Score: 2

      She "launched" her campaign twice, the first one didn't result in the media feeding-frenzy she hoped for, apparently.

      And her multiple "listening tours" to find out what her platform should be was an underwhelming endeavor.

      But yeah, but the (as yet un-named as such) "Vast Russian Conspiracy" is what cost her the position she was entitled to...

      --
      Ken
    6. Re:It's all in a slogan by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To be fair, Trump was pretty "Me, Me, Me" as well.

      The difference is the "Me, Me, Me" message resonated with Trump supporters.

      The "I'm with Her" message lost the people that believed more in "Stronger Together".

      Trump did not win the election, Clinton lost it. Specifically Clinton lost Wisconsin and Michigan. Both states went to Sanders in the Primary and in the General saw a massive dive in DNC votes and a massive uptick in 3rd party votes. Johnson went from 8k to 172k between 2012 and 2016 in Michigan, That's not anything other than people going "Fuck Clinton".

      State | Year | Green | Libertarian | Democratic | Republican |
      Michigan | 2008 | 8,892 | 23,716 | 2,872,579 | 2,048,639 |
      Michigan | 2012 | 21,897 | 7,774 | 2,564,569 | 2,115,256 |
      Michigan | 2016 | 51,463 | 172,136 | 2,268,839 | 2,279,543 |
      Wisconsin | 2008 | 4,216 | 8,858 | 1,677,211 | 1,262,393 |
      Wisconsin | 2012 | 7,665 | 20,439 | 1,620,985 | 1,407,966 |
      Wisconsin | 2016 | 31,072 | 106,674 | 1,382,536 | 1,405,284 |

      I broke down which states would have flipped based on what percentage of additional 3rd votes would have gone to a candidate other than Clinton:

      100% | 75% | 50%
        Arizona | Florida | Michigan
        Florida | Michigan | Pennsylvania
        Michigan | Pennsylvania | Wisconsin
        Pennsylvania | Wisconsin
        Wisconsin

      So if you assume half of the votes 3rd party candidates picked up between 2012 & 2016 would have gone to anyone but Clinton the democrats would have picked up PA in addition to MI and WI. If they were 75% they would have added Florida.

      [I tried with the formatting but Slashdot doesn't like 'junk' characters, even in code blocks]

    7. Re:It's all in a slogan by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Trump never claimed anything else. What was so blatantly fraudulent about Hillary was that she would always pay lip service to fighting for the little guys, but it was perfectly clear that she was an international oligarch, taking money from each and every obscenely rich donor after another, and clearly lying about it, over and over again. She has exactly zero charisma and avoided anything but the most softball venues where she could be assured of cloying praise. All the while, using a completely corrupt organization to crush another candidate like a bug, despite his large following. Bernie is a bumbling communist imbecile, but he at least believes what he says.

         

    8. Re:It's all in a slogan by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every Trump voter I know was voting for him. They might have held their nose to vote for Jeb Bush if the Republican Establishment had managed to get him the nomination, but many would just have stayed at home if Trump wasn't the nominee.

      That's not to say they wouldn't have preferred a different candidate, but he was the only one standing who they could get enthusiastic about.

    9. Re:It's all in a slogan by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      One would think that Bill Clinton's spouse would have gotten better advice.

      I think she did, she just ignored it. In the article I read on...I want to say Politico...dissecting the loss shortly after the election, they were saying that Bill was telling her to make more stops in Michigan, Ohio, etc to talk to the white working class and they laughed Bill off. The blue wall was on lock and the data said they didn't need white men anymore. Whoops.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    10. Re:It's all in a slogan by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The vast majority of voters voted for Hillary. She won the popular vote.

      But that isn't exactly how the Presidential Elections are counted, and Hillary didn't campaign except in states that she was winning, securing the ... popular vote. Trump dumped a ton of money, and spent time in rust belt talking their language, and Hillary was avoiding the public like the plague it was with her health issues.

      In the end, a lot people felt less uncomfortable with Trump than with Clinton, especially in key states, and that led to the stunned media / DC complex on Election night. Watching Wolf Blitzer try and find "votes" on the big board for Hillary was comedic gold.

      But yeah, it was the Russians hacking the elections and Trump Collusion and DNC data people and* ...

      Notice, it was never Hillary being a terribly flawed candidate, caught cheating with the DNC, MSM against Bernie, and hiding out trying to coast in for the win.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    11. Re:It's all in a slogan by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Every Trump voter I know was voting for him.

      I know several Trump voters who were voting against Clinton because they saw her being president an intolerable situation. Out of my 200 or so friends & family on Facebook, there were maybe a dozen Clinton supporters (mostly female or gay), and none of them were enthusiastic about it. They saw Trump as an existential threat to feminist causes, so they were motivated by fear.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    12. Re:It's all in a slogan by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      Both candidates were unbelievable egotists... it's hard to even compare them because I think we reached peak, saturated ego. With that said, what I heard from the Hillary Camp was roughly: "ME ME ME NOT TRUMP ME ME ME ME NOT TRUMP" and almost no other messaging. Trump did not have anything approaching a coherent message. I'm not sure he had a coherent thought. But his message was roughly: "ME ME ME EVIL HILLARY JOBS JOBS SAFETY SAFETY ME ME ME EVIL HILLARY". Notice that, even while yelling about himself and his opponent, he was throwing stuff out there about jobs and safety. His solutions (in so much as they exist) for jobs and safety are deeply flawed, but at least it was a main thrust of his campaign. Don't get me wrong... it was an extremely close election and Hillary may be technically correct that her behavior did not cost her the election. But it was a factor, and the same can be said of all the other causes. This thing should not have been close at all, and she and the DNC really blew it on multiple fronts.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    13. Re:It's all in a slogan by sl3xd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with MAGA is that it implies that America stopped being great -- which isn't something most Americans believe.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    14. Re:It's all in a slogan by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with MAGA is that it implies that America stopped being great -- which isn't something most Americans believe.

      It's something a lot of Tea Partiers, etc., believed due to Obama being President.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    15. Re:It's all in a slogan by JWW · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ding, ding, fucking ding. We have a winner.

      I didn't LIKE voting for Trump, but there was no fucking way in hell I was going to vote for Hillary....

    16. Re:It's all in a slogan by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Once again, most Americans claim they are exceptional, and live on the greatest nation in the world, yet most have never travelled outside the US, so their uneducated opinion counts for nothing. But that's a common flaw among the American people, they believe that if they say it, is it true. They don't ever let facts get in the way of a good opinion.

      • The U.S. is Number 1 in defense spending
      • The U.S. is Number 1 in the cost of health care
      • The U.S. is Number 1 in abortions of all the developed countries
      • The U.S. is Number 1 in medical bankruptcies
      • The U.S. is Number 1 in prison populations per capita
      • The U.S. is Number 1 in small arms ownership

      [What makes America the greatest country in the world?] It's not the greatest country in the world! We're seventh in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, third in median household income, No. 4 in labor force, and No. 4 in exports. So when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I don't know what the f*** you're talking about.

      -- Aaron Sorkin

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/03/21-maps-and-charts-that-prove-america-is-number-one/

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    17. Re:It's all in a slogan by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure you did. Clinton was awful, but she was no worse than any of the Presidents we've had since before her husband took office. She was the victim of a 25 year old smear campaign, but unless you were asleep you wouldn't have missed that, and you would have taken into account the fact the recent talking points against her, about emails and Benghazi, were so shaky they'd been rejected even by Republican congressional committees.

      Meanwhile, Trump was clearly a fraud. You knew about Trump U. You knew about the spate of bankruptcies. You knew about his ripping off suppliers. And at the same time, for all Clinton's post-Bush-I New World Orderish/Neo-conservatism, Trump was actually acting like an actual fascist - he was scapegoating vulnerable minorities for America's problems, and he was actually, directly, encouraging violence against protestors and claiming he'd abuse the law to lock up his political opponents.

      And he was doing so completely openly.

      You're saying that Trump vs Clinton was some difficult vote where Trump wasn't ideal, but Clinton was just so bad? Bullshit. You voted for Trump because you wanted Trump. Maybe you wanted to watch the world burn, I don't know, but you had enough information at the time to know that Clinton, while bad, wasn't anything like as terrible as her detractors pretended, and that Trump was one of the worst candidates ever to run a democratic nation that tries, for all of its faults, to be a beacon for freedom and democracy across the world. You voted for a low rent Mussolini to prevent a low rent still-better-than-Dubya from taking office.

      Don't pretend otherwise. Nobody voted for Trump reluctantly. If you're voting for lesser of two evils, you're not voting for Trump.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    18. Re:It's all in a slogan by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      No, America is a shitshow, and we know it, despite deeply ingrained jingoism. Congress is lucky to have double digit approval ratings.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    19. Re:It's all in a slogan by dasgoober · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, oddly enough they voted for Obama's campaign slogan: "Change".
      People feeling the squeeze of falling jobs, falling incomes, immigration pressures saw Clinton as a continuation of policies that had given them the shaft for the last 20+ years.

      The same way that people came to the conclusion that any change in the healthcare system was worth a shot, so they viewed Trump.

    20. Re:It's all in a slogan by Wycliffe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, oddly enough they voted for Obama's campaign slogan: "Change".
      People feeling the squeeze of falling jobs, falling incomes, immigration pressures saw Clinton as a continuation of policies that had given them the shaft for the last 20+ years.

      The same way that people came to the conclusion that any change in the healthcare system was worth a shot, so they viewed Trump.

      Exactly this. The reason Trump won a lot of the same counties that Obama did is because they both ran on basically the same platform. Trump and Obama both campaigned on change while Clinton campaigned on "more of the same". Clinton should have seen this in the primaries when all the "more of the same" candidates on both side quickly fell. The only candidates that survived for any length of time were Bernie (change) and republicans that were also outsiders offering change. Granted Clinton was an exceptionally bad candidate with a lot of people who REALLY disliked her but in her defence, that's not what lost her the election. What lost her the election was that she chose to campaign on the "status quo" while both sides were looking for an outsider to upset the fruit basket.

      One of the main reasons that liberals in the big city still have a hard time seeing this is that the last decade has been relatively good to them and they don't see the stagnation that the people in the rust belt see.

    21. Re:It's all in a slogan by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The vast majority of voters voted for Hillary. She won the popular vote.

      Where the 'vast majority' describes a 2.1% margin. Seriously #fakenews

      It was virtually a dead heat, and the "Vast majority" to lift your language of Clinton's votes over Trump came from a couple of bicoastal metropolises that have drastically different political make up and narrow interests than the rest of the nation.

      Lets not get into where the "vast majority" of likely illegal alien votes were cast either.

      Yes Trump's claim to have won the popular vote, but for the illegals and rigging in silly. However if you do remove those things than her already very small popular vote margin is even smaller. I would argue that allowing NY and CA to effectively dictate presidential outcomes would be very bad for the country as they don't represent same interests. Its why the electoral college exists. Its a good design, and statistically benefits democrats most of the time, to boot.

      Take a look a Brexit, the most opposition was in a couple big cities that are heavily tied to international finance. Same thing with CA and NY here. If the rest of us had and real sense we'd find a way to not let them vote at all.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    22. Re:It's all in a slogan by wyHunter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually it started under Bush, though not as organized. The 'libertarian wing' hates the 'business as usual' Republicans as much as Democrats.

    23. Re:It's all in a slogan by Wycliffe · · Score: 2

      I've never looked for this data and am glad you took the time to dig it up. I find it fascinating, especially the Michigan numbers. Between 2012 and 2016 the Democrats lost 300000 votes. To me it is interesting that essentially half of them went to Libertarian, but the other half went to Trump. Sure, you can think of all of those Libertarian votes as fuck Clinton, but the switch to Republican (if in fact they represent the same voters - it may be more likely that 150000 Democrats voted Libertarian and half stayed home, and 150000 more Republicans showed up to vote) would indicate some resonance with his message.

      From what I've seen, I think it is much more likely that the vast majority of those 300k democrats voted for Trump and the only reason that Trump didn't win in a complete landslide is because 150k republicans defected to the libertarian party. I have yet to meet a single democrat that says they voted libertarian while I've met a lot of democrats that voted for Trump and a lot of republicans that voted libertarian. It makes more sense to have a double shuffle like this than a complete jump. A defecting democrat has a lot more in common with Trump or the green party than with the libertarian party.

    24. Re:It's all in a slogan by larryjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with MAGA is that it implies that America stopped being great -- which isn't something most Americans believe.

      Most Americans view the greatness of America in the context of the current quality of their own standard of living. Unfortunately over the last several years, many Americans have struggled to maintain their standard of living and for them, America (i.e., their perception of the part of America that they most clearly see) stopped being great. This economic struggle has been particularly challenging for many Americans who don't read slashdot and haven't necessarily benefited from the uptick in the tech industry.

    25. Re:It's all in a slogan by ObiWanKenblowme · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with your line of thinking is that you're saying she should have blatantly lied about policy choices in order to win. "Change" is/was not what the US needs, despite a vocal minority shouting at the top of their lungs. We've seen the projections for "change" over the last 8 months - 24 million Americans losing health insurance, regulations lowered or removed altogether on financial institutions and environmental pollution, weakened security due to willful ignorance and insults aimed at our allies.

      The so-called "liberals in the big city" are doing well because they're adapting to, not fighting against, economic reality. The stagnation you mention in the rust belt has nothing to do with Obama, or "elitist liberals", or the ACA. It has to do with the economic realities of a 21st century global economy. I'm truly sorry if coal mining is no longer a viable means of supporting your community, but economic and political isolationism isn't the answer. Investments in education and subsidies for emerging markets (like clean energy) are the only real way to avoid the collapse of the rust belt. Unfortunately the GOP is doing its best to undermine both, while making entirely unrealistic promises to their base, like "we'll bring back coal".

      --
      Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.
    26. Re:It's all in a slogan by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Why does so many Americans reject the thought of soceity keeping the population healthy and educated?
      Is it because most Americans are religious, and believe if God gave you poor parents you must deserve it?

      As an American, basically, yes. We really do believe that kind of thing here. We have tons of mega-churches telling us that rich people are loved more by God and that's why they're rich. I wish I were kidding.

    27. Re:It's all in a slogan by Tomato3 · · Score: 2

      The vast majority of voters voted for Hillary. She won the popular vote.

      Well, that's just wrong. She didn't win the majority of anything. Even if you did away with the Electoral College (which would be a difficult thing to do) she still didn't win a majority of the popular vote. No one got 50% + 1 of the vote. And with no majority (and no Electoral College) the Presidency is decided by the incoming House of Representatives using one vote per state. And I can almost guarantee she would've lost that without even looking it up.

      That's just one more reason she was a terrible candidate. Not only did the Democrats and Independents not vote for her they also stayed home in regards to the House and Senate races. And I say all that as a Democrat.

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. -Commissioner Lal
    28. Re:It's all in a slogan by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Your post is a great example of exactly why Trump won.

      Liberal 'elites' showing contempt for the majority of the country--and, particularly for the people who use to be the core of Democrat voters--was never going to get Clinton into the White House.

    29. Re:It's all in a slogan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He was seen waving rainbow flags and talking about protecting gay rights during his speeches. I did not find this out until after he was elected. I realized we were only watching spliced speeches on most news outlets, which shouldn't have been surprising.

    30. Re:It's all in a slogan by jcr · · Score: 2

      That she won the popular vote is primarily indisputable.

      And entirely irrelevant. There is no "popular vote" in American election law. To win the presidency, you have to come up with enough electors to win the presidency, and electors aren't allocated strictly by population. If Hillary were as smart as she believes she is, then she would have put the work in to win the states that her husband did.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    31. Re:It's all in a slogan by judoguy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And yet, people from all over the world immigrate here as hard as they can.

      About half the friends I spend time with are legal immigrants from England, France, Iran, Mexico, Russia, Ukraine, Canada, Azerbaijan, Nigeria, Cuba, etc., etc.

      Gosh, what a bunch of dumb asses not to be able see this country as clearly as you!

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    32. Re:It's all in a slogan by Koby77 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Throughout the history of civilization, mankind has almost always lived under a ruler. A monarch, a dictator, a despot, a military general; it doesn't matter the title of the ruler, it was all the same: the average person has no say in how the national shall operate, and the nation shall operate for the benefit of its rulers only, not those being ruled. Freedom and democracy were very rare occurrences. But America was different. Ordinary people got to vote, and the nation was operated in a fashion such that advancement of the rich and powerful did not come at the expense of the ordinary citizens. AMERICA BECAME THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE OF HUMAN HISTORY. Maximum freedom was achieved. Maximum prosperity was achieved. America because so successful that large segments of the population across the world (even today) are willing to leave their family and friends in their home country to get to the United States, while others considered overthrowing their monarchs and dictators to become like the United States.

      So that's what American Exceptionalism means. It means that we have a winning formula, and not just an approximation that partly delivers for some people for part of the time. We know how to get the most freedom, and the most prosperity, for the most people, all at the same time. And it comes from a system of moral beliefs, not in a technocrat, not in a central planning committee, not in a bureaucratic union, not in a central bank. As long as Americans know and believe the principles upon which the nation was founded, we will continue to be that exception to human history where everyone wants to be like us.

    33. Re:It's all in a slogan by houghi · · Score: 2

      The exception? Wow. I never knew that Europe didn't exist.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  8. This would explain by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why she didn't campaign in the rust belt. They thought they had a lock on it. That said, as far as I can tell the Republican listened to Nate Silver and the Dems did not. That's what cost her the election.

    --
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  9. Who made her call 25% of America "deplorable"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Only Hillary Clinton made Hillary Clinton call 25% of the voting base "deplorable".
    Hillary Clinton made the choices to ignore the states Trump was focusing on at the end (except Florida, she had an arguably correct amount of presence there).
    Only Hillary Clinton is responsible for how she handled the myriad of accusations (true and false) from the right.

    Hillary Clinton should blame Hillary Clinton. It doesn't matter that she won't.

  10. but you didnt win the primary. by nimbius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    she had "nothing" to work from once she rigged the nomination.
    FTFY.

    but in all seriousness, this is the kind of petulant bitching I abhor in a statesman. Its the kind of whining you expect to hear from a deep-seated, dynastic candidate with lots of connections and money but limited charisma, tact, and insight. Hillary lost the election because she was a turd of a candidate that avoided red states and rural populations where she refused to send any message. Instead she concentrated on playing the numbers and winning by electoral college votes in big blue cities. Rural and suburban voters outside of these areas saw her as disconnected and disinterested in things like systemic unemployment, drug crises, and healthcare. She was the woman who shamelessly arrived in a five-thousand dollar red designed gunny sack to lecture the masses on inequality.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  11. dealt a weak hand by mschaffer · · Score: 2

    It's not her fault she was dealt a weak hand. Even the "woman card" couldn't improve it. Let's face facts---even the RNC was surprised she couldn't win against Trump. Now she is really going off the rails with her blame game.

    1. Re: dealt a weak hand by Train0987 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Auschwitz? That kind of wild hyperbole is why he won by the way.

  12. History vs Hillary by tgibson · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hillary claims she lost because of Trump's superior data operation?
    FiveThirtyEight a month before the election: "Clinton has more than twice as many field offices as Trump nationwide (489 vs. 207), and her organization dominates Trump’s in every battleground state."

  13. Watch what you email, then leaks won't hurt by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If your email system is full of derogatory emails, then email leaks are going to hurt. If you are professional in your communications, then leaked data won't be as embarrassing. The emails that really hurt should never have been written in the first place.

  14. Field Offices != data operation by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Field offices are just the folks who knock on doors. A data operation is a centralized thing.

    She's actually probably right. She lost because she didn't campaign in the rust belt. That's probably because their data op said they had a lock on it. Also keep in mind she lost by very, very slim margins. It came down to a few tens of thousands of votes in a few dozen districts.

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    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  15. Preparing for a new campaign? by evolutionary · · Score: 2

    It seems odd that she would continue with this unless she was preparing to fund another war chest. She was expecting to win 8 years ago, but Obama came out of nowhere with crowdfunding for his campaign. Then she made an "arrangement" (not technical illegal but undermining the democratic process so certainly unethical) with the DNC which got leaked proving the nomination was corrupt from the start, then she is saying "it wasn't my fault". Talk about sour grapes.

    --
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
  16. The DNC is the last she should blame by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

    This is the same DNC that corruptly threw Bernie under the bus to provide a clear path for Hillary. They did everything they could to get her elected. If they deserve any kind of blame for causing her loss, it should be for pushing such an unpopular candidate into the presidential elections in the first place.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  17. popular vote by p51d007 · · Score: 2

    I don't know if you are in the USA or not, but, the USA, constitutionally, does NOT elect a president based on the popular vote. They are elected by a MAJORITY of electors from each state. The title of office is President of the United States of America. United STATES...that is the key point. If he were elected by a popular vote, he would be called the President of the United People of America. The purpose of the electoral college, is to give each state, equal weight in the outcome of the election. If we voted, based on popular vote, candidates would only visit the high population cities in the USA. That means, California, New York, Illinois, Florida, Texas, Ohio, would be the only place they would spend any time and, those states would decide the elections, for the entire country, which is not how the Constitution was written.

  18. It wasn't my fault.... by PortHaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "I take responsibility for every decision I made, but that's not why I lost," Clinton said.

    I lost cause...

    - I am a woman
    - Fake News
    - The Russians
    - The DNC was incompetent

    NOT
    - I was repeated caught cheating against Bernie Sanders
    - The DNC collusion
    - Tarmac meeting to call off investigation
    - Failed to campaign to blue collar workers
    - Never got boots on the ground
        (Both Bernie and Trump came thru redneck Pennsylvania and Michigan, Hillary assumed her win)
    - The long history of being a corrupt insider
    - Pass legacy of Clinton Administration
    - People are tired of political dynasty's (Kennedy's, Bush's, Clinton's)

    These are why she lost...despite her campaign having twice the funds as Trump's campaign, the DNC party spending more than the Republicans, and the SuperPAC's that supported her having nearly 3x the funds of those supporting Trump. Only to be tromped in the electoral college.

  19. Absolutely laughable. by xession · · Score: 4, Informative

    The is absolutely laughable! She ran a money laundering operation to drive funds into her campaign while starving the the state-run Democratic parties. Millions of dollars went into the coffers of the DNC office and Hillary Clinton's victory fund and she has the gall to say it was "bankrupted"?

    DNC sought to hide details of Clinton funding deal

    The DNC was an entity wholly within the umbrella of the Clinton machine for the 2016 election. To say it was bankrupted suggests her own inability to manage her operation. Its as if Hillary Clinton and the DNC spent millions on research to find out why people hate the smell of turds and millions more on trying to find a way for people to enjoy the smell of turds, and left with the conclusion it must just be everyone else's problem for why they don't enjoy the smell of turds. And to top it off, then she whines about being short on money. If every room you walk into smells like shit, check your pants.

  20. Actually wrong in this case by PortHaven · · Score: 2

    Hillary raised and spent nearly twice as much as Trump.

  21. Stop terminating data operations people then. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    RIP, Seth Rich.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  22. Actually he is by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    he's a statistical aggregator. He takes all the polls, adjusts them for historical accuracy and likely margin for error and then presents the results. His methodology is reasonably straightforward (by statistician standards) and well vetted. Basically he just approaches polling as a science and remains impartial. Since he's not employed by either party he doesn't mind giving them bad news. And he's not out to bilk anyone (like Rhomney's data team was when they were basically taking the money and running).

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  23. The vast majority of NY and CA for clinton by mveloso · · Score: 4, Interesting

    True, the vast majority of Californians and New Yorkers voted for Clinton. The rest of the country not so much.

    That's why the popular vote doesn't count in US elections - nobody wants CA and NY to decide who the next POTUS will be.

    1. Re:The vast majority of NY and CA for clinton by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lot's of people in California and New York voted for Donald Trump. 32% and 37% respectively. The reason that Hillary running up her totals in california and new york don't help her, is because she is already winning 100% of the electoral vote despite there being many republicans who did not for her.

      Texas is projected to flip to being a blue state in 2024. I expect many electoral college proponents will changing their tune at that point.

      The electoral college has 2 separate effects. It gives slightly more voting power to smaller states, but it also just makes the results very erratic (severely diverging from the popular vote). This latter effect has a far more profound effect on the outcome of elections.

      It is largely incidental that the electoral college has been helping republicans in recent history. When the circumstances change and see the effect start to disproportionately help democrats, we'll see democrats clamoring to keep it and republicans clamoring to get rid of it.

      It's not a good voting system, regardless of what your desired outcome is.

    2. Re:The vast majority of NY and CA for clinton by t0rkm3 · · Score: 2

      Because this is a union of states, not a union of people. It's the United STATES of America, not the Democratic Mob of America.

      This allows people to have a different local government than the rest of the nation, but still cooperate on the major issues that were decided to best be pushed up to the Federal government.

      It allows for an ecosystem of ideas and economies to exist and work along with each other. Technically, the popular vote applying to the federal election is not covered under federal statute at all. Arkansas could decide that the electoral votes will go to the party that wins a coin flip, if that's what the people of Arkansas voted for in their State law.

  24. Well by s.petry · · Score: 2

    The problem with MAGA is that it implies that America stopped being great -- which isn't something most Americans believe.

    Most Americans do believe that the Government no longer works for them though, which was the hallmark of a Great America.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  25. Clinton lost the popular vote by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    2000 election
    48.38% Gore (Dem)
    47.87% Bush (Rep)
    2.74% Nader (Green)
    0.96% Other (all conservative parties)
    51.12% total liberal parties
    48.83% total conservative parties


    2016 election
    48.18% Clinton (Dem)
    46.09% Trump (Rep)
    3.28% Johnson (Libertarian)
    1.07% Stein (Green)
    0.69% Other (all conservative parties) 0.05% Other (all liberal parties)
    49.3% total liberal parties
    50.06% total conservative parties


    Since the U.S. only allows a single vote for President, if nobody wins an outright majority (50%), you have to take into account votes for other candidates to really judge the will of the people in that election. This accounts for third parties siphoning votes away from the top candidates.

    In 2000, Gore won a plurality (but not a majority) of the popular vote, and the liberal parties won a majority of the popular vote. Gore was the "best" winner of the 2000 election.

    In 2016, Clinton won a plurality (but not a majority) of the popular vote, but the conservative parties won a majority of the popular vote. Trump was the "best" winner of the 2016 election.

    Clinton lost because she wasn't popular enough to get enough liberal voters to go to the polling stations, plain and simple. She (and many liberal pundits) refuse to recognize this, and keep trying to blame external factors for her loss. Russian meddling (never mind that if emails saying Trump had been given debate questions in advance were leaked, that would've been the scandal instead of the source being Russia), "fake news" (which has been present forever, just not with a catchy name), Comey's announcements (Clinton's polls went down when Comey announced she wasn't being charged with anything, not even a reprimand - she likely lost a large number of voters with security clearances), and now poor DNC operations (Trump's campaign was even more disorganized). Winners adapt so they can win. Losers refuse to change even when they're told they're wrong, then blame others for their loss.

  26. Mods are on crack today by greythax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could you please describe for me how an illegal alien registers to vote? When they show up to the polls, how do they get into the booth? Also, we are talking 3 million votes that made up Hillary's margin. Considering that there are 11 million illegals in the country, how did they get that organized that 30% of them were able to pull this off? Also, how is it that not even one of them has spilled the beans on TV, for, you know, a huge paycheck from fox? If I am making it sound like you are some conspiracy nut, it's because that is what you sound like.

    1. Re:Mods are on crack today by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Basically all you need to vote is an address.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  27. And the "fix"? [Re:It's all in a slogan] by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    H was mostly a "status quo" candidate, for she often talked about continuing and improving O's plans. That wouldn't sit well with the rust-belt: they wanted change. The recovery mostly skipped over them. Non-rust-belt Dems mostly voted the expected pattern.

    The rust-belt is a politically tricky sell because most those factory jobs are not coming back no matter what. T blaming lopsided trade on factory loss is mostly false (automation a bigger factor), but at least he give it strong lip-service. He was at least talking about THEIR main problem.

    Being honest with the rust-belt would be delivering bad news, which usually doesn't fly politically. She could have talked much more about education and re-training for new industries, but that's NOT politically competitive with T's turn-the-clock-back promise. I'm not sure Bernie's socialist tilt would fly in that area either. Middle America wants their jobs back, not more socialism. The S word is poison there.

    I welcome somebody to present a viable and honest rust-belt platform that would have worked politically. Change often creates tough choices, and selling tough choices politically is very difficult. 2 Presidents telling voters to wear sweaters indoors or check tire pressure as a "solution" to energy problems fell flat, even though it's good and practical advice. Voters wanted cheap energy back, not more chores.

    T found the right lie at the right place at the right time. Politics is not about logic; it's an emotional sales game. H would probably have to lie to compete.