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Teardown of New iMac Reveals Upgradable Processors, RAM (macrumors.com)
According to an iFixit teardown, Apple's new 4K 21.5-inch iMac has both removable RAM and a Kaby Lake processor that's not soldered onto the logic board. Whereas the previous models had soldered memory modules, the new iMac's memory sit in two removable SO-DIMM slots. MacRumors reports: iFixit made the discovery by disassembling Apple's $1,299 mid-range 3.0GHz stock option, which includes 8GB of 2400MHz DDR4 memory, a Radeon Pro 555 graphics card with 2GB of VRAM, and a 1TB 5400-RPM hard drive. After slicing through the adhesive that secures the 4K display to the iMac's housing and removing the power supply, hard drive, and fan, iFixit discovered that the memory modules aren't soldered onto the logic board like previous models, but instead sit in two removable SO-DIMM slots. Similarly, after detaching the heatsink and removing the warranty voiding stickers on the backside of the logic board, iFixit found that the Intel SR32W Core i5-7400 Kaby Lake processor sits in a standard LGA 1151 CPU socket, making it possible to replace or upgrade the CPU without a reflow station.
Now thats premium. It a 5.25 inch drive?
Having to slice the adhesive securing the screen to the housing, remove the power supply, hard drive, and fan, and tilt out the logic board to swap memory modules isn't exactly user-friendly. It still gets only a 3/10 for repair-ability.
1) Buy lower end system
2) Upgrade using cheaper 3rd party components
3) ???
4) Error 53
You aren't wrong, but here's the thing. When apple merely stops doing something insidious that most computer makers never do and never have done, that's not a plus for apple. That's one less negative at best. At BEST. I work as a video editor and I won't be paying for one of these. PCs are just more competitive. Companies have bottom lines and that's really the hard fact they can't solve.
Just like my new car comes with the added benefit of swapping out the foam padding sewn inside the seats, I just have to slice through the fucking leather to get to it.
Looks nice. Which 4K monitor did you get in this build?
"removing the warranty voiding stickers on the backside of the logic board"
We've got case law that explicitly forbids this. Quit spreading this fucking rumor.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Why does theirs cost more? Off the top of my head?
- They include a 4K IPS monitor
- They weren't able to get a nerd to build it for free on his own time
- They warranty their work for a year
- They provide telephone, email, and in-person customer support
- They have fixed costs for scaling their operation so they can do more than one at a time
- They need a profit margin to stay in business
All-in-all, that's a pretty good deal for the $400 or so that you've said they're charging over you.
All of which is to say, you can build one-offs for cheaper than the big players if you're willing to work for free, disclaim any responsibility for problems, and keep no inventory on hand. They don't get to do those things if that want to stay in business.
No you won't.
a Kaby Lake processor that's not soldered onto the logic board.
...that you could upgrade the CPU in the future with something that fit the same socket?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
So the RAM/CPU are socketed and theoretically replaceable/upgradeable, but doing so requires CUTTING THE MONITOR AWAY. Great improvement there Apple. I remember when you could upgrade the RAM on an iMac by opening a plastic panel, with no tools or consumables required. On the LC575 (an all-in-one from the mid '90s) the back panel popped off for you to install/upgrade RAM, PDS and comm slot cards, and the internal SCSI hard disk was on a sled that just slid out.
Eh, just don't seal it back up. That way it looks mean.
The cost of the computer is a trivial expense in professional video editing. Less than 1% of the annual cost. So your company should simply be choosing is the best equipment, whatever it is.
> Apple needs to get back to it's roots for PC, computers as a hobby.
Apple could do that if somehow their products completely failed and they were in survival mode. Apple is currently the largest computer company in the world and the ninth largest company in the world. They sell 17 MILLION Macs every year, for 23 BILLION dollars in Mac sales.
The entire "computers as a hobby" market is maybe a 23 million dollars each year, one tenth of one percent of Mac sales. They would literally give up 99.9% of their sales by focusing on people who want to tinker with their computers. To make it worse, they'd lose most of their margin. Hobbyists aren't going to buy Apple-branded RAM for $300 if they can get similarly speced RAM from Kingston for $200.
4K on a 21.5" using a Radeon Pro 555 is nothing but a bad sales joke, with hardly any practical application.
Get a grip. There's nothing "insidious" about soldered RAM. It has its benefits and drawbacks just like everything else. By your logic it's insidious to solder _anything_ down, because someone somewhere might want to replace it. If you want to replace your RAM don't but a computer with soldered RAM and then complain about how you can't replace the RAM.
Cor.
It's almost as powerful as the laptop I bought many years ago, though it obviously has a later generation of processor. It might even be "as upgradeable" but I think it's unlikely unless it has a SODIMM slot underneath a flap on the back of the case (you shouldn't need to "dismantle" in order to "upgrade").
I still don't get the Apple thing at all.
unfair to who?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Looks like you've eaten too much apple sauce.
But we're all to familiar with the software failures on windows. So we use Macs.
For video editing, the best equipment is something you can plug as many GPUs into as possible.
That basically rules out anything running OS X. And if you're running an edit bay that costs $1000/hr+, every second counts.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
"They warranty their work for a year"
Until you upgrade the 5400rpm to something usable and void your warranty.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I don't think I would be getting another MBP or iMac.
For a company with a quarter of a trillion in assets to offer their users 16GB MBPs, shitty Radeons, and no 10nm CPUs (sure, blame Intel on your supply management issues), is just beyond acceptable level for me. And the price markup is just insulting, its like I'm being trolled by mediocracy.
Which isn't Apple and never will be.
Their hardware just plains pales in comparison to anything the PC market has to offer. It's not even about "what you can do for cheaper". You don't find Apple products that can run dual GTX 1080 TIs. Even a GTX 1050 ti (a $100 card) will put their Radeon 555 to utter and despicable shame.
And if it's all about thin and light, Nvidia's new Max-Q designs will satisfy you with underclocked GTX 1080s that will simply crush the MBP at the same price range while being nearly just as thin.
All of Apple's devices are made to feel premium without actually being premium. It's marketing at its finest.
Apparently you don't value your time. You had to research and price out each component, purchase each one, wait for shipping (or drive around town and pick them up putting miles / wear on your vehicle). You had to assemble each and every part. You had to do any troubleshooting. You had to install the OS, and each driver. And, should anything go wrong, it's your time to figure out what it is and fix it.
How many hours did you spend doing all of that? That's the "magic applesauce" that every OEM includes in the price.
Note: I say this having a 6-core X99-based i7 under my desk that I self-assembled, which is dead silent while working full bore. I did it because I get exactly what I want in the box, and at the time no OEM was delivering anything close to what I wanted; not because I believe in some fallacy of saving money, because I actually value my time.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
The best equipment is equipment that you can repair, so that you're not stuck buying a whole new computer if something goes wrong and you've got work to do. Only Apple users would ever pretend that hardware never fails.
?? Having done a lot of Video editing in my time, and much under hard deadline pressure, you don't have just one of whatever platform you are working on.
Regardless, that is a hardware and software issue. The editing software suites are integrated nicely among the applications, and they ran after Apple updates, unlike the Windows machines.
With projects running to the hundreds of millions, anyone worried about saving money or upgrading RAM on a few computers might be better off working at Best Buy.
Which leads me to wonder. A couple years ago, I upgraded memory on my personal mid 2011 iMac.
I discovered my Apple had a terrible flaw. I removed two screws on a plate at the bottom of the computer. I then -with my bare hands, popped out the memory that was already there, and installed new RAM.
Apple had forgotten to solder the RAM in place! And it was a dumb design anyhow, since both the new and old RAM hac connector like tabs on them, instead of the DIP or SIP RAM that any other PC company would use if they were going to solder it in.
But I had to get some work done, so I took a chance, popped the new RAM in and miraculously, it worked despite Apple having only soldered in RAM. I put in connector RAM, and it worked. GO figure!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
For video editing, the best equipment is something you can plug as many GPUs into as possible.
That basically rules out anything running OS X. And if you're running an edit bay that costs $1000/hr+, every second counts.
Do elaborate! The majority of video editing is making the decisions. How does your Anything but OSX (it's MacOS) hardware setup speed the decisions down to the 1 second level.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It's about Xbox One performance you dumb smug nut. Don't you remember graphics cards like Ati Rage Pro, Matrox and whatever could do 1600x1200 back when you were in your diapers.
The applications using a small fraction of the GPU power would be : HTML, PDF, desktop publishing, terminal emulators, picture editing, and also some 3D shit like Google Earth requires very little GPU power.
Fuck, if Intel graphics from 2007 were more than enough for Vista/7 "Aero" in 1680x1050 don't you think something at least 10x faster will do the job in 3840x2160? What about piece of shit phones that have 1920x1080 or more? Do you know what's GDDR5 or DDR4 memory?
Now, Apple is a scam, but the 21.5" iMac is not terribly bad. It's not an Apple laptop at least. It would be feasible to get one, then wait for the warranty to be over, crack it open, replace the 8GB memory with 32GB and the hard drive with a better one. Though by all means, get a linux desktop if you prefer it.
The guy did use an iMac. I won't fault him, that has a very decent display that's like a pseudo standard as well, a stupidly fast quad i5 or i7 CPU - you might call that a shit CPU but well it beats spending $5K on a dual Pentium III with SCSI and maxed out RAM doesn't it? (for the tower only). And finally it has a low footprint and is like a really really good laptop or a plain desktop. And I'm an Apple hater. So, he deserved better hardware but iMac can be a nice low end editing station.
I love listening to folks go on about a creative process, and getting their selves wrapped around the axle with the hardware.
Its the software usability, and of course you don't want a slow machine, but in the end, it is the creative process.
Now for heavy 3D rendering, you need multiple machines and fast ones at that. But for editing video footage, a reliable machine running good software is job number 1.
When severely pressed for time, I have done very good work using freaking free iMovie. It ain't Final Cut, but no one noticed. People got their work, and I was accused of making miracles.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Get a grip. There's nothing "insidious" about soldered RAM. It has its benefits and drawbacks just like everything else. By your logic it's insidious to solder _anything_ down, because someone somewhere might want to replace it. If you want to replace your RAM don't but a computer with soldered RAM and then complain about how you can't replace the RAM.
I had this vision of hardore anything but Mac users demanding that their computers be made with those spring mounted components like the Old Radio Shack electronics kits. There is some bullshit about the article anyhow. iMacs have replaceable RAM. I have a mid-2011 imac I did just that on.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why is the cost of replacement a concern when hardware costs are less than 1% of the annual cost?
That may be an average, but it's not the case for everyone, that's why.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You don't have to do the extensive research yourself any more. You can just load up someone else's build, someone who's already doing what you want to be doing. The actual build takes a couple of hours tops if you don't care how purty your cable routing is.
If you're putting more than one or two systems into a corporate environment, you basically have to buy something with support. If you are trying to come up with one very good machine at home, it is almost insensible to buy it prebuilt unless you are getting it at some kind of massive discount.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It used to be that the majority of video editing was waiting on a progress bar that said "rendering" above it. With GPU compute, those days are mostly gone. Thus, my original post.
Apple hasn't been keeping up in the horsepower department, which has allowed Adobe Premiere back into the game. Especially with the dumpster fire that was the release of Final Cut X.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
You aren't wrong, but here's the thing. When apple merely stops doing something insidious that most computer makers never do and never have done, that's not a plus for apple. That's one less negative at best. At BEST. I work as a video editor and I won't be paying for one of these. PCs are just more competitive. Companies have bottom lines and that's really the hard fact they can't solve.
Then enjoy your Windows 10, Spyware Edition!
Seeya!
Which leads me to wonder. A couple years ago, I upgraded memory on my personal mid 2011 iMac.
I discovered my Apple had a terrible flaw. I removed two screws on a plate at the bottom of the computer. I then -with my bare hands, popped out the memory that was already there, and installed new RAM.
Apple had forgotten to solder the RAM in place! And it was a dumb design anyhow, since both the new and old RAM hac connector like tabs on them, instead of the DIP or SIP RAM that any other PC company would use if they were going to solder it in.
But I had to get some work done, so I took a chance, popped the new RAM in and miraculously, it worked despite Apple having only soldered in RAM. I put in connector RAM, and it worked. GO figure!
Why, certainly that would be because they didn't start soldering RAM in until 2012.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Rendering...
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Yes the SIZE of a company is it's market cap, period. Revenue is revenue, profit is profit, and size is size - capitalization.
If you want to compare to Lenovo, first yes tablet computers are computers; they are the computers that everyone is buying. And Apple sells more of them than anyone. You want to pretend a tablet computer isn't a computer? You want to look only at old-fashioned desktops? Okay, Lenovo makes 1.4% on each desktop they sell. Apple makes 19%. So Apple makes more money selling desktops than Lenovo does.
But we're all to familiar with the software failures on windows. So we use Macs.
Because you prefer beach balls to blue screens? Whatever makes you happy, sport.
Beachballs generally have a happy ending. It is equivalent to Windows' Hourglass.
Bluescreens NEVER have a happy ending. Because they ARE the End.
I'm fairly certain that EVERY iMac generation has had replaceable RAM, despite what TFS says.
Pros don't repair, unless they are in the repair business
They call the service center and expect some guy to show up the next day with a working computer in exchange for the broken one. What happens behind the scenes is not their problem.
"They warranty their work for a year"
Until you upgrade the 5400rpm to something usable and void your warranty.
You've got Apple confused with Dell and HP.
Apple has an unwritten (but occasionally stated) policy of not voiding a warranty just because an owner did an upgrade, unless the upgrade was done in such a way as to cause actual damage to the unit.
This clearly proves beyond any reasonable doubt that a Mac IS a PC. This has never been questioned by anyone who knows the slightest bit about computers, of course, but you still here this nonsense terminology thrown around. Now that they are both using the same commodity components, there really is no excuse.
Beachballs generally have a happy ending. It is equivalent to Windows' Hourglass.
Maybe that's true now. The last time I spent much time with OSX, seeing one for long meant that the whole machine was in an unrecoverable state forever and ever amen.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
No way. If I'm doing something significant, and something goes wrong, it's faster to get a new computer now to just keep working. It may be worthwhile to repair the old one, but if time is important that's a losing game.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You obviously haven't tried putting computers together with my fingers.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
The important thing about a computer is the applications available and, to a lesser extent, the OS. The hardware is only important to support that.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Beachballs generally have a happy ending. It is equivalent to Windows' Hourglass.
Maybe that's true now. The last time I spent much time with OSX, seeing one for long meant that the whole machine was in an unrecoverable state forever and ever amen.
When was that? OS X 10.1?
I highly doubt they went with non-soldered parts due to customer demand for upgradeable parts. In fact, I pretty much guarantee they didn't. Because if it was actually a feature they added for the customers benefit, it wouldn't require you to *void you warranty!* just to upgrade. More likely as someone else suggested, it just happened to be cheaper this time to not use solder. The fact that you can technically upgrade a few parts is just a fringe benefit.
Especially with the dumpster fire that was the release of Final Cut X.
I see. Funny, it appears that all previous versions of Final cut have stopped working, correct? Explain how exactly that happens. And Adobe Premiere? Okay if you say so. I've used both because I had to do some editing on a PC. Must be to dumb to understand how that is better.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Maybe that's the case in online editing where you are finishing and working with the original camera files, but in offline editing, where you are making the decisions, you're using lower resolution lightweight codecs. Even in the days of FCP 7, there was not very much rendering going on in the offline.
The answer to the fellow is that he doesn't like Mac. Occam's razor. Did you know that all versions of Final cut stopped working with the release of X? It's true!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Rendering...
And sometimes having to stop work because an update borked the computer.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm fairly certain that EVERY iMac generation has had replaceable RAM, despite what TFS says.
Of course. The "live and die with what you bought because you can't upgrade" meme is alive and well because while it is a damn bald face lie, it feels so good for those who need to hate any Apple product feel really good.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I want to say 10.5. Thankfully, I've been able to avoid Apple hardware since then.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why, certainly that would be because they didn't start soldering RAM in until 2012.
I have a Late 2013 iMac that proves otherwise. Apple couldn't (wouldn't) supply it with 32GB so I bought some Kingston RAM from Umart and upgraded it myself. There's a small door to access the SODIMM slots on the back of the iMac right beside the IEC power socket.
If you feel like getting a pizza cutter out you can also remove the glass display panel from the iMac frame and upgrade the SATA hard disk (or SSD) yourself. iFixit even have upgrade kits for this as Apple does funny business with the temperature sensors (over the SATA connection) on their OEM drives. If you don't get the iFixit temperature sensor dongle then the iMac's fan will go into "safe mode" and run at full speed to protect the system from over-temperature damage.
You can use Flex Tape! Have you seen that TV commercial? A guy sliced a fucking boat in half with a power saw, and then taped it back together with that shit!
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
If you only have one workstation you're probably not that serious about your editing work. If you have more than one, you move to another.
And either way, you spend more time waiting for rendering than you'll lose to the occasional bad update which, by the way, I've experienced on macOS as well... as recently as yesterday on a barely 6 month old 5k iMac. On the up side, my wife probably won't complain about the strict backup policy I enforce on company-owned machines anymore.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Interesting. So I guess the decade I spent as a member of the Apple Consultants Network means I hate Macs. And supporting an actual video editing shop that used Final Cut Server, who were left in the lurch when Apple launched FCX - that didn't happen either. And nobody ever makes newer equipment and doesn't write drivers and codecs for old end of life software.
Or, maybe you're making very bad assumptions.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Interesting. So I guess the decade I spent as a member of the Apple Consultants Network means I hate Macs. And supporting an actual video editing shop that used Final Cut Server, who were left in the lurch when Apple launched FCX - that didn't happen either. And nobody ever makes newer equipment and doesn't write drivers and codecs for old end of life software.
Or, maybe you're making very bad assumptions.
Interesting - you don't post like a person who liikes Macs. Even the Apple puck mouse thinks so.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I work with Apple stuff every day, but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of decisions they make. I never liked the taste of Kool-aid.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Or you can use this instead of the dongle.
Blank until