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TV Networks Hide Bad Ratings With Typos, Report Says (cnet.com)

A report Thursday in The Wall Street Journal details how networks are taking advantage of that fact to disguise airings that underperform with viewers. From a report: It's described as a common practice in the world of TV ratings, where programs with higher ratings can charge advertisers more to run commercials. When an episode performs poorly with viewers, the networks often intentionally misspell the show title in their report to Nielsen, according to the Journal. This fools the system into separating that airing out as a different show and keeping it from affecting the correctly-spelled show's average overall rating. The report says the practice was initially used sparingly -- for instance, when a broadcast would go up against a major sporting event.

115 comments

  1. I'm shocked, shocked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Networks deliberately messing with facts to suit their agendas? Who'd have thunk it?

    1. Re:I'm shocked, shocked! by Gay+Boner+Sex · · Score: 0

      Miss Mash is too ignorant to know the facts? Who'd have thunk it?

      It isn't a typo if it is an intentional misspelling. I don't understand why the new owners of Slashdot staffed it with chimpanzees. This is depressing.

    2. Re:I'm shocked, shocked! by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      My response to the headline was 'who cares?'. Hiding ratings for shows nobody is watching, its like a mole picking its nose... I'll never see it.

    3. Re:I'm shocked, shocked! by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Hey, I'm not ignorant, I'm just lesdyxic.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    4. Re:I'm shocked, shocked! by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      The summary title is the title of the c:net article. Are you suggesting that slashdot editors should randomly reword things as they see fit rather than actually quoting the articles they link?

    5. Re:I'm shocked, shocked! by Gay+Boner+Sex · · Score: 0

      I am suggesting that the editors do their job. That means editing. Editing does not entail copying things verbatim, you senseless dolt.

    6. Re:I'm shocked, shocked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Les-dik-suk? Sounds cool, where can I see this?

  2. Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by dlleigh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And they haven't employed technical solutions to correct for typos and collect the correct data?

    This doesn't sound right.

    1. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      They're still using punch cards for data processing.

    2. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next up, revolutionary AI solution uses spell check with a dictionary of show titles!

    3. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd think it's be something like, register a series, series assigned to the networks account, select series from list to submit recent info.

      But nope. 1980s tech instead, relying on users to enter a long string of characters.

      World is full of lazies and stupids.

    4. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by geekmux · · Score: 1

      They're still using punch cards for data processing.

      And people still give this antiquated shit value for some unknown reason.

      Boggles my mind about as much as understanding how commercials still create revenue and justify airtime costs, as the time-shifted audience can't smash that fast-forward button fast enough.

    5. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by fortfive · · Score: 1

      Seriously. Don't they charge a lot for their services? Wouldn't advertisers be demanding accurate info or find another way to get it? Or are these industries totally ossified with denial?

    6. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Pascoea · · Score: 3

      Yeah doesn't sound like an incredibly hard problem to solve. 1) Don't key off the damn show name. An int(11) series_id combined with a "series not found, please check for spelling errors" return when the network tries to submit a rating seems like something even a CS grad could make happen. 2) Adjust their algorithm to account for competing shows.

      Isn't it a larger problem that the networks are submitting their own ratings? Who the hell thought this was a good idea? "No, trust us, that show did GREAT. It was HUGE." WTF.

      Last random thought... This whole thing smells like a phone book company in an Internet world...

    7. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      And they haven't employed technical solutions to correct for typos and collect the correct data?

      Imagine if Slashdot was like that, producing duplicate story entries. We'd think terribly of them and defect.

    8. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      What incentive do they have?

      This is fraud, plain and simple.

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    9. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by stephanruby · · Score: 2

      Oh damn! Now, I am feeling bad for the ad companies. They're getting ripped off.

      Booo-hooooo

    10. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somehow Home Shopping Network is worth 2 billion dollars even with Amazon in the arena. I imagine people throwing money at the screen when any commercial airs; somebody must be buying. I can't understand why.

    11. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Cryacin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, you're right. Big Bother performed quite poorly...

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    12. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      Denial and bad data presented as true maintains the status quo. A lot of the agencies that place ads on behalf of their clients would suddenly have some tough questions to answer from those clients if the bad data was exposed so like in many industries perception is king and makes reality - and it's in everyone's best interests to present a shiny 'reality' instead of drilling down and telling the true story.

      And having dealt with other industries where everyone thinks the tech is cutting edge but behind the curtain it's all 80286s powered by hamster wheels it wouldn't surprise me at all if Neilsen's tech was considerably less state of the art than everyone is presuming.

    13. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      It's probably considered a feature.

      Absent better data tools which perform statistical analysis based on temporal locality, letting an episode of a TV show average its ratings out with ratings during major events like sports or 9/11 would distort the data with outliers. In statistics, we actually identify anything more than 1.5 times further away from the median than the first and third quartiles and discard it before performing any computations.

      Think about it. You air a 13-episode season of a show. All of these have a rating of 80/100, except the one that aired on Election Night--which had a 15/100 rating. Your rating is 75. Now you've got data telling you another popular program with an average 78 rating is more-popular, and it's not.

      Blunt statistics would have done exactly what they're doing: Remove the outliers. Today, we would use enormous data systems to identify if specific time slots had more viewers, if specific channels had more viewers, if airing after another show affected the show's popularity, if an event affected it, etc., and then forward-predict the rating of any given airing--even in any given market. That's part of what ATSC 3.0 aims to achieve: robust understanding of program viewership, based on everything that's happening during the airing of a show, and where.

    14. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by spiritplumber · · Score: 1

      Old people. They tend to have disposable income.

      --
      Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
    15. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      Is it fraud if your less-popular series with ten half-hour episodes and a rating of 73 airs 2 hours before U.S. election footage, and your more-popular prime-time series with 5 one-hour episodes airs one during the U.S. election and gets a rating of 68??

      Hey, look, I can sell $LESS_VALUABLE show on fake higher ratings than $MORE_VALUABLE show because an outlier condition has damaged their ratings. They have one big dip on one episode out of four years, but their ratings this year tanked and so next year they won't be able to report it as so valuable and I can get people to pay me more money for my shit that nobody cares about!

      In medical literature, pharma companies have had their drug banned from the market and been fined billions of dollars for not doing the equivalent of removing the data of those patients who had another conflicting variable or even a major deviation from their computations. Including outliers is fraudulent.

    16. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by EvilSS · · Score: 4, Informative

      Let me explain how commercials generate revenue: Ad companies pay money to show ads during prime time. Bamph! Revenue. Commercial ad rates are based on the only rating that really counts: C3. This is the measure of live + 3 days of DVR viewing of the commercials (not the show). So media buyers have a pretty good idea of how many people are viewing the commercials. C3 ratings are rarely public but the live overnights are a pretty good substitute for how a show is doing, and the key factor sites like TVByTheNumbers and TheTVGrimReaper use to predict renewals/cancellations.

      That said, they are pushing back and this year ad buy revenue has been flat for most networks compared to last year (usually goes up a bit each year). They are aware that the market is shrinking.

      This is also why you are seeing more and more carriage disputes between cable/sat providers and the owners of the local affiliates (or the networks themselves if they are O&O stations). Carriage fees are a massive part of their revenue now, and they are using that as a bit of a buffer against falling viewership numbers. The affiliate owners keep pushing to increase the fees each contract.

      --
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    17. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Accurate and reasonable ratings can be derived by properly modeling and accounting for these known issues like sporting events or national disasters in news.

      Self-medicating with "typos" is not the right way to do it and it does look like defrauding the advertisers.

    18. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't sound right.

      It sounds precisely correct to me; the networks that fund Nielsen are uninterested in 'fixing' the 'problem', wink wink. Everyone involved, except the ultimate advertisers, are incentivized to tacitly allow the fraud to continue.

      As such it doesn't actually matter; the market discounts the fraud; there is some information loss, but probably not enough to matter. Below some line you're buying crap time with low viewership in any case, and the 'problem' can only get so bad before Nielsen's credibility is ruined, so they moderate the behavior well enough.

    19. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      On the wild wild web, we often see typos in message boards and blogs. Sometimes it's hard to forgive the crappy spelling and grammar of your typical Anonymous Coward. In the corporate world however, there is just no excuse for it when email and word processors have spell checkers. When you make typos in data that you share with business partners, you just look like you don't know what you're doing, and that reflects badly on your company.

    20. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Look this is really simple:

      Is the count of eyeballs correct, or not?

      It does matter if something else gets those eyeballs, be it a sporting event, an election, an empty podium...

      Its fraud against the advertisers, and Nielsen is a co-conspirator.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    21. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      They no longer have any idea what so ever about what people are viewing, right now a great big fat fucking lie is being pushed. Only a select audience of empathic TV viewers get to play the game and then the entire populations viewing habits are based on this group. Now that worked reasonable well prior to the internet but since the internet, there are growing numbers of people who do not watch free to air or cable and yet that same select sample is still meant to represent the entire population, a categorical lie, as now a large and growing percentage are no longer watching the commercials the ratings agency claim they are and that is especially prevalent in a younger audience. The ratings agencies are basically claiming that people who do not watch any free to air or cable and watching particular programs on free to air or cable. I have a TV that I have not bothered to attach to an TV antennae, no need and it has been that way for quite a few years. Old world main stream media, last millenniums version is just so done.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    22. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Isn't it a larger problem that the networks are submitting their own ratings?

      They're submitting their schedule, not the ratings.

      Something has to tell Nielsen what was actually on NBC at 6:30 so it can be matched up with what the box reported to Nielsen.

    23. Re: Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      Aaah, thank you. Good insight.

    24. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a good comment, I'm gonna steal it for the repost.

    25. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's fraud.
      Ask yourself; are they also excluding positive outliers?

      Pharma companies don't measure how many people who take their drug get healthy, they measure how many people get healthy because they take their drug. That's why they have to eliminate external factors from their data.

      Nielsen ratings measure how many viewers shows have on average. Nothing is stopping the TV channels from not providing any data to Nielsen, providing mode averages, putting in the extra work to explain the outliers and offer reduced advertising rates for these special situations or even simply tell the advertisers that they are excluding low rating episodes. Instead, they intentionally undermine a rating system they claim to support.

      I think the underlying truth is that advertisers really don't mind being defrauded if is saves them the effort of actually doing research into cost/benefit.

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    26. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      They're submitting their schedule, not the ratings.

      Something has to tell Nielsen what was actually on NBC at 6:30 so it can be matched up with what the box reported to Nielsen.

      Then again: Why? Why separately? That information should be taken from any TV Guide as a forecast at least, and then only corrected for overruns or the occasional breaking news. That should be done independently by Nielsen, if having accurate numbers is in their own interest. Have a show reported that does not show up in the TV Guide? Should raise a flag for manual error checking.

      --
      bickerdyke
    27. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The count of eyeballs is not correct because it suggests that the count is different for the other airings of the show.

      You do realize that not removing this distorted data in any professional capacity will get bad things on your doorstep, right? For example: if you have a deviation from the median greater than 1.5x the inter-quartile distance and you keep it in your data to show safety and efficacy of a drug, you are committing fraud and the FDA will fine you and pull your drug from the market when it turns out to be more-dangerous and less-effective to the general population than you said it was.

      I took statistics. My teacher got pissed off because I was failing. I never did my homework, napped in class, and misanswered four problems on my exams all year--and every one of those was due to misreading the problem. I got a perfect score on the AP Statistics Exam. When I tell you that data impacted by outside variables pollutes the model and gives you invalid results, that's an expert opinion.

      It's amazing how fucking horrendous people on Reddit and Slashdot are at statistics. A few months ago, I had to deal with a guy claiming some research was invalid because the researchers used people of different backgrounds and so, because the participants were not all substantially-similar, the statistical trend could have been caused by some other variable that differs between them. That's how bad you people are at this shit.

      I can use real numbers to commit fraud by not removing data that needs to be removed. They removed data that needed to be removed for their statistical model ("Ratings") to be valid. If doing it the "right" way gets you an incorrect result, then that's not the right way to do it.

      tl;dr the right way to handle this would be for the Nelson system to have automatically removed those numbers by identifying them as statistical outliers. It's generally-trivial math. That leaves a smaller problem that things which can hold their popularity even against elections and shit still incorporate confounded data and so come out less-wrong instead of corrected.

    28. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      How would you get positive outliers? Are there positive outliers?

      We can conjecture about things all day; the facts here, however, are that data confounded by outside variables to the point of becoming a negative outlier is removed from the system. They may not be statisticians over there, and their reasoning might be incorrect; the action taken is the correct action. I don't have any facts about any other actions taken. Bringen sie mier data.

    29. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      There are certainly positive outliers. For example season finales or particularly well-advertised episodes.

      Anyway, next time some episodes airs during the superbowl, advertisers can trust the predicted number of viewers being correct, thanks to the excellent practice of excluding negative outliers.

      Lies, damn lies and statistics.

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    30. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by apoc.famine · · Score: 2

      Only a select audience of empathic TV viewers get to play the game and then the entire populations viewing habits are based on this group.

      I was sent the Nielsen notebook and asked to record our household's viewing habits. I gave them two weeks of data, and they never contacted us again. Why? Because we don't watch a ton of TV. And what we do watch is not the profitable stuff.
       
      I sort-of figured that dumping us would happen, but at the same time, it really reinforced how much of a scam the entire TV market is. If you're going to base your decisions on carefully curated data, you might as well just not use data at all. Just make it all up, and stop pretending that you're doing any sort of research.
       
      Us not watching anything on the major networks during prime-time is really important data. It tells advertisers and the networks that for our demographics, what they're doing is not going to get our eyeballs. Looking at what did get our eyeballs might be informative, should they be interested in growing their market. But they didn't want to do that. Either we were invested in the prime-time networks, or we we weren't. And if we weren't, we weren't useful to them. It's that sort of head-in-the-sand thinking that is killing TV.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    31. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i are a corprat profetionall spel cheker.

    32. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Correction, I believe it's supposed to be "Imagine if Slashdot were like that..."

    33. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      That information should be taken from any TV Guide

      TV Guide makes errors too. Also, networks regularly change their schedule compared to what TV guide published.

      Finally, network affiliates don't have to show what the network is going to show. Every affiliate would have to submit a separate schedule anyway.

      That should be done independently by Nielsen

      That would require a very large increase in the number of people employed by Nielsen. The numbers they produce are "good enough" as far as the industry is concerned, so there's little reason for Nielsen to hire all the people required to enter the data for every single station in the US.

    34. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      I mean, I don't recall ever seeing a discrepancy on what the digital guide on my cable box displayed vs what was actually on that channel. (With the exception of a sporting event running long) That would imply that the information is available accurately in digital form. If any of the three parties wanted this "problem" fixed, it would be fixed, there are surely technical hurdles but they don't seem insurmountable. The fact that it hasn't been fixed would seem to imply that someone doesn't want it fixed.

    35. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Season finales and well-advertised episodes would stand out, yeah. I'm not sure by how much. It might not be enough to make the outlier criteria. This is, again, why robust data analysis is better than a single number, even though we have statistical methods for improving that single number's meaningfulness.

      Anyway, next time some episodes airs during the superbowl, advertisers can trust the predicted number of viewers being correct

      The problem is you have six numbers: 890, 870, 845, 865, 520. The average here is 798. That last number is during the Super Bowl.

      So the number you're looking for "during the superbowl" is 520. The number you're looking for as a benchmark for the series is more like 867.5. If you don't have the 520 number but do have something like an understanding of the viewership of the superbowl and its demographics impact, you can use the 867.5 number to predict the 520 number, with some loss of accuracy. If you have the 798 number, you can try to do this in reverse to predict the 867.5 number, with some loss of accuracy.

      The number you want accurate is the 867.5 number.

      It gets better: what happens when that 520 number is "9/11 happened today and everyone turned off Smallville and turned on CNN"? Now you have a meaningless sample polluting your sample base, and you have to figure on if that sample is there (by analyzing history) and how to factor it out (for which you have minimal data--it happened one time).

      Even the set of all individual samples isn't really more-accurate than a properly-analyzed conclusion. Your pile of samples requires methodology for analysis. That requires work. There's limited effort available, and repeating that work thousands of times is infeasible; either you pay Arbitron to do it for you or you build your own mini-Arbitron to do it in-house at a much-higher cost and with less-reliable results. You can take a third option and do qualitative analysis: cherrypick what your gut tells you is good, then analyze those against each other; ignore the rest because it's too expensive to get good data.

      Tough problem, huh? Read what I said up top. We need to be able to ask more questions about broad spans of data if we want useful information.

    36. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      You do realize that not removing this distorted data in any professional capacity will get bad things on your doorstep, right?

      I only realize that a process which only cuts outliers from one end, is bullshit.

      Clearly you do not, even though you did all that thinking to write all those words, you didnt even consider it. This is because you are a complete fucking idiot.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    37. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I told you, no data, no conjecture. If I wanted to make shit up, I would say there must be outliers on one end, and that extra advertisement and season finales must draw more eyes than usual, and try to spin a narrative on wholly-imagined numbers.

      Of course, if I tried that, I'd have to point out that the deviations are based on the same audience affinities, and would only represent normal variations in existing viewership; whereas deviations from other events draw normal viewership away. That suggests that imagining there may be an inverse-superbowl might be stupid. Note that a deviation within 1.5 times the interquartile distance from the first and third quartiles is not a statistical outlier.

      Again: I don't have data to back up the claim that there is or is not a positive outlier effect, or how it compares to negative outliers in frequency and magnitude.

    38. Re:Nielsen hasn't figured this trick out by now? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Please.... save us your backtracking. We dont care in what manner you do everything but admit to and correct your errors.

      When you open with bullshit like dishonesty or fallacies, nobody cares what else you have to say unless its an act of contrition. Piling on more bullshit just proves that we are right to no longer give a fuck what you think.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  3. If a show sucks, it still sucks by OffTheLip · · Score: 1

    and doesn't really matter what the networks do to overcompensate.

  4. Is this why the Sinpsoms is still on the air? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Sinpsoms stopped being funny years ago.

    1. Re:Is this why the Sinpsoms is still on the air? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Simpsons is a cash cow for the actors who have all been promoted to co-producers by now. The only people who still watch are exactly the sort of people Homer described as the target audience for his Mr Plow commercials: alcoholics, angry loners, and the unemployable.

    2. Re: Is this why the Sinpsoms is still on the air? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a local Seattle channel that is 24/7 Simpsons. They shall out live is all.

  5. Why do we care? by ausekilis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With the advent of streaming Nielson ratings are going to mean next to nothing anyway. Netflix, Hulu and Amazon will already know what shows/episodes/movies are popular just by hit counts.

    1. Re:Why do we care? by geekmux · · Score: 1

      With the advent of streaming Nielson ratings are going to mean next to nothing anyway. Netflix, Hulu and Amazon will already know what shows/episodes/movies are popular just by hit counts.

      I'd say it already means next to nothing. Ask the average Millennial how Nielson ratings affect their entertainment selections. I doubt they even know what a Nielson rating is, which highlights how irrelevant it has become. The only ones not accepting that fact are the ones still profiting from it.

    2. Re:Why do we care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nielson rates are for calculating ad costs and determining if a show should be cancelled or not. Generations before millennials never directly cared about Nielson ratings either, they aren't meant for the consumers.

    3. Re:Why do we care? by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 2

      Nielson rates streaming materials these days just the same. They also track a whole lot more than television and radio. Your shopping transactions for one

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    4. Re:Why do we care? by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      I was thinking and probably can search the web but I will follow SOP like everyone else to give opinion before research. What did a Nielson box look like, or however it was done. How do they find the "average viewer." It seem these days Nielson ratings are like Billboard Top 40, something from the 20th century. Maybe better measuring standard is advertisers see a jump in sales due to ads for particular shows, or comments about shows posted on forums (but then have to weed out hired trolls by competitors or governments seeking to sway opinion). Just wondering.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    5. Re:Why do we care? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

      Nielson ratings were garbage in the early days because they were based on diaries filled out by hand by selected viewers. People who might be embarrassed to admit they watched trash television or blue movies, or fell asleep, or whatever. Chances are there was a lot of lying going on during the data collection phase.

      I believe later they moved to electronic collection, but that failed to account for people who left the TV on, or watched something on tape (or later DVD... I don't know if they fixed this by the time Blu-ray came along).

      It's always been mostly made up crap based on mostly made up crap, but advertisers wanted something to judge the reach of their ads and networks wanted something to judge the rate they should charge for ad space... so Nielson.

      Streaming is a Nielson nightmare - there's no need for middle-man analysis, it's all right there, to the frame. And in many cases, there's even less need because the media provider is on a subscription based revenue model and doesn't care about advertising.

    6. Re:Why do we care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is fraud. Advertising rates are based on the number of viewers for episodes. It's up there with the Volkswagon emissions cheating.

      (You could argue these episodes are outliers, but maybe the ratings system needs to be revamped.)

    7. Re:Why do we care? by geekmux · · Score: 2

      Nielson rates are for calculating ad costs and determining if a show should be cancelled or not. Generations before millennials never directly cared about Nielson ratings either, they aren't meant for the consumers.

      Regarding show popularity and viewership, usage statistics should be able to be pulled from any cable box, and would likely be more accurate. Online streaming can really dial in the accuracy, since a lot of content is consumed on personal devices that also identify the specific end-user (age, gender, etc.). Since we're here discussing how something as simple as a spelling error can manipulate the shit out of ratings, perhaps manipulation is a key feature of Nielson that prevents us from trying to find a more accurate alternative.

      As far as calculating ad costs, no one wants to see or hear ads anymore. Consumers can't hit the fast-foward button fast enough in the time-shifted world we now live in. I struggle to even see how revenue is generated from ads to justify the obscene costs.

  6. Conspiacy to defraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like the nets and ratings firmshould be criminally charged with fraud and conspiracy. Possibly wire fraud and mail fraud too. They intentionally lied to advertising firms to get more money. That's a crime.

    1. Re:Conspiacy to defraud? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      i agree with you on principle, but really this is just fraction of a peanut compared to the massive organized fraud known as Hollywood accounting (where massive hit blockbuster movies that rake in huge money and spawn countless sequels, are somehow reported as losing money).

      AFAIK nobody ever got arrested or indicted for Hollywood accounting, it's all been just civil lawsuits and secret settlements.

      I know there are many good liberal people in the general population, but the liberals who happen to hold power in places like Hollywood and TV networks are some of the most dishonest corrupt people on earth.

    2. Re:Conspiacy to defraud? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      political ideology and morality are orthogonal measures of a person.
      I know many good republicans, many bad ones too.
      Same for Dems, and even the handful of Marxists* I know.

      As to the style of accounting... total sleazeball stuff right there.

      *using that very loosely so I can actually count a handful...

      --
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    3. Re:Conspiacy to defraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      maybe the reason they're corrupt and/or dishonest is not because of political leanings but because of the position of power they hold?

  7. Things make sense now by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    I remember a couple episodes of "Third Rook from the Son" that were really quite terrible.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Things make sense now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Dick Sucks Dick"

    2. Re:Things make sense now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actual 3rd Rock episode titles:

      "Dick Smoker"
      "Gobble Gobble Dick Dick"
      "Dick On A Roll"
      "Dick The Mouth Solomon"

    3. Re:Things make sense now by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Chess-hater!

    4. Re:Things make sense now by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I remember a couple episodes of "Third Rook from the Son" that were really quite terrible.

      Just a couple? That was a horrid show, a weekly dose of "Howard the Duck". Complete with a stupid concept, aliens, uninteresting story lines, humorless jokes, horrible acting and an unremarkable cast. I don't think there is even ONE episode I'd choose to watch more than once...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:Things make sense now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Howard the Dick"

  8. I can fix this with my cutting edge technology! by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

    Ok, may sound crazy, might be a bit over-the-top...but...

    How about using a drop down box on the fucking submit form?

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:I can fix this with my cutting edge technology! by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      Hard to do with a fax machine...

    2. Re:I can fix this with my cutting edge technology! by bobbied · · Score: 1

      A fax machine for punch cards? How does that work?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:I can fix this with my cutting edge technology! by Dracos · · Score: 1

      It's easy if you've been sent an all-black fax by Scientology haters (this is Hollywood after all)... just feed that back into the machine behind the punchcard to make the holes stand out.

    4. Re:I can fix this with my cutting edge technology! by Pascoea · · Score: 2

      Hand the closest intern a pair of scissors and a hole punch, tell him to go sit on a bucket next to the fax machine. Then go have a coffee.

    5. Re:I can fix this with my cutting edge technology! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      How about using a drop down box on the...form?

      In my experience, typically business-to-business data like this is sent in bulk. The major networks probably have hundreds of current shows and several thousands of vintage shows, let alone gazillion potential movie titles and one-off specials. Nobody will want to hand key each one.

      An automated process is probably set up to send over something like a CSV or XML data file via FTP or similar for each reporting period.

      They could have a show registration step of some kind to make sure anything in the list is valid (such as an existing show), but often that's not done to cut (initial) costs and/or simplify things for the data supplier, who may not want to adapt their own systems to fit the receiver's system (data conventions).

      Even if a "tight" system was set up, there are often ways around it, such mis-classifying a TV show as a movie to bypass the existing-show validation rule. When caught, they can just say they accidentally selected the wrong category in their GUI. Automation can only go so far in preventing riff-raff. GIGO can still affect the tightest of systems.

      Human spot-checking of data will probably always be needed if you want to catch such tricks. Perhaps AI can help point out suspicious patterns, but building and tuning AI tools may cost more than old fashion eyeball spot-checking.

  9. easy idea to solve the fraud. by computerchimp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Shows are broadcast on a predetermined schedule.
    A show gets a zero until something is submitted.
    that will get the spelling right.

    Anyways it is pretty dumb that Nelson has not been able to vet this out.

    1. Re:easy idea to solve the fraud. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Why should they care? They get paid either way. Head down, eyes forward, don't make waves. That's what keeps the peace and the cash flowing.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:easy idea to solve the fraud. by c · · Score: 1

      Anyways it is pretty dumb that Nelson has not been able to vet this out.

      I'd be willing to bet that they were the ones who told the networks (AKA their clients) about that little exploit.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    3. Re:easy idea to solve the fraud. by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Who says they want to vet it out? If the show gets higher ratings, people will pay more for advertising during the show. This helps both the TV networks and Nielsen.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    4. Re:easy idea to solve the fraud. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who says they don't want to vet it out?

      How does it help Nelson?
      Please don't say because their clients will make more money so they will be willing to pay more.

      They could be sued for this type of stuff. It is fraud perpetrated against advertisers.

    5. Re:easy idea to solve the fraud. by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Yep. They don't really collect ratings and publish them. As I posted above, they ignore anyone that they don't feel is the right demographic engaging with the right products in the right way. It's not data collection at all - it's a curation of people who will produce the data they need to support their business model and keep their customers happy.
       
      No reason at all to point out that their customers are gaming the system - if that makes them happy, great!

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  10. FRAUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is FRAUD. Simple as that. Just another example of criminal culture run amok in corporate America, but no one goes to jail. There is no respect for the law in the USA left.

    1. Re:Fraud by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Buyer beware..

      I'm sure Nelson will provide the data directly to an advertiser who wants to get the information from them. Not sure if they charge for it though.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  11. Fraud by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Many times, the network advertising rates are based upon rating shares. A deliberate deception, which raises the apparent share, and therefore ad rates, is fraud - plain and simple. The advertisers should be up in arms about this.

    --
    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
  12. I work with Nielsen data by langelgjm · · Score: 2

    While they don't actually use punch cards, a lot of the data seems like it's from that era - fixed width, all caps, space padded... feels very mainframe-y.

    That said, Nielsen also has networks report TV programs with unique numeric "program codes", so it's not like they (or other people using their data, like me) rely on the program strings to group by program.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:I work with Nielsen data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...so it's not like they (or other people using their data, like me) rely on the program strings to group by program

      Respectfully, I disagree. There are a lot of Media Buyers building schedules via M-F type dayparts and pulling ratings based on Dominant Program name, or posting on it. The name in the schedule isn't the end-all/be-all of how ratings are derived, of course, but it can have a significant impact in how things are purchased, and determining a buy's GRPs.

  13. Brilliant accounting!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A regular person does this and it's fraud and off to jail. A rich person allows their company to do this and it's considered brilliant accounting. And even if it does get called fraud, the company will get a slap on the wrist with a fine less than what they fraudulently gained. Hard not become cynical in such a world.

  14. Typos? by tquasar · · Score: 1

    I like watching Dancing With the Scars, Better call Paul, and Breaking Dad.

    1. Re:Typos? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I prefer "Prancing with the Stars", and "Breaking Bar" myself... But yeah "Better call Paul" is pretty awesome.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  15. Nielson will only matter when blipverts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ,also known as weaponized advertising, get deregulated and the drooling masses return to consumption only television.

    So like only if you time travel back to the 80s/90s and into the universe of Max Headroom :)

  16. Form that contains show names by myid · · Score: 1

    Don't have the networks type in the show's name. Instead, have them fill out a form that has the show names already entered on it.

    Instead of someone from ABC typing "Wrld News Tonite" followed by audience numbers, the ABC person should bring up a web page that has the show names on it. Next to "World News Tonite", the person would type the number for that show.

    1. Re:Form that contains show names by rh2600 · · Score: 1

      But that would stop their ability to lie! ;-) Nielsen are as shady as the broadcasters, ratings are all one big vague hand-wave by the industry.

  17. PHB Response by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    [TFA:]
    Nielsen issued the following statement to CNET:

    "With participation and input from clients, Nielsen maintains a rigorous set of policy guidelines for how network clients can and should receive program and commercial ratings credit for their programming. Nielsen takes these Policy Guidelines very seriously and if we find a network working in contrast to this agreed-upon policy, we address the issue in a direct fashion as a way to maintain fairness and balance over all of our clients and the industry as a whole. We have many touch points with clients throughout the season to ensure guidelines are being adhered to."

    That's a PHB non-response response if I've ever seen one. It says nothing concrete and doesn't explain the cause. It sounds like it's from a canned excuse template. "Microsoft Alibi for Azure"? And what is a "touch point"? That's either a new-fangled biz buzzword, or a way to get sued for harassment.

    How about a more honest statement: "We got cost-cutting-happy and slacked on data inspection. We apologize and will shape up and spend more on data validation like we should have from the start."

    You'll almost never hear that from a corporation. Would that kind of response really hit their stock harder than the first? I would think honesty would be more effective with stock-holders/purchasers. But egos get in the way and instead they produce flavorless fluff responses.

    To be fair, if they admit fault, lawsuits would be easier because the judge/jury has a direct written confession. Without it, they can confuse the court, for example, by claiming the Flux Capacitor, built by a far-off vendor, was at fault.

    1. Re:PHB Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't even confirm whether the trick works, or if it ever did. Or if, for example, networks are still superstitiously using a decades-old trick that Nielsen actually fixed years ago. I'd expect a company in the business of producing (ostensibly) accurate ratings to be a little smarter than the average TV network executive.

    2. Re:PHB Response by pyser · · Score: 1

      Nielsen allows stations to "retitle" programs if there is something about the program beyond the station's control that affects viewership. As an example, a sporting event runs long, and the newscast runs an hour and a half late, and viewership drops substantially. That would impact the average ratings of the newscast in its normal time slot when every other station in the market is running its news at the normal time, so the station is right to exclude that aberration from the running average. Think of it as "The Eleven O'Clock News: Special Edition" or something.

      Even with retitling programs that fall in this category, Nielsen still reports the ratings, so ad buyers can evaluate for themselves. There are clients who will only buy time in newscasts, and only in newscasts that run on time. They don't want to spend big bucks if the show is an hour late.

      As for actual program ratings, Nielsen relies mainly on portable people meters (PPMs) that record viewing in real time by listening to codes embedded in the audio. They just rolled out a new, finer-grained coding system (critical band encoding technology) which delivers better code reading ability in noisy or difficult environments. So there is actually no escaping Nielsen's viewer/listenership gathering mechanism, at least in the larger (top 50) markets.

  18. You think these ratings are bad? by Anoymous_Cowherd · · Score: 0

    You should see the ratings for Tramp and Obomba!

  19. TV Nets Hide Bad Ratings with Nielsen Myth by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 2

    It has been the Truth That Dare Not Speak Its Name for decades: The Nielsen ratings are just one or two ticks above throwing darts, blindfolded, when it comes to both accuracy or picking real winners. But too many people within the TV industry make their living based upon the "Dailies" for any one of them to want to upset the apple cart. Tip of the Iceberg, here. I suspect whoever wrote that will be SethRich'd shortly, if he hasn't already been...

    1. Re:TV Nets Hide Bad Ratings with Nielsen Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the Nielsen ratings are not one ot two ticks above throwing darts. The system is as good as the sample of people you base it on if it's going to reflect the population at large. Garbage in, garbage out it's as simple as that.

  20. I worked at Nielsen by muninn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After working a few years at Nielsen (in data-heavy development roles), this sort of issue is what prompted me to leave. Trying to convince them that ensuring data integrity is worthwhile was an uphill battle. Sure, they have lots of valuable data... but it's all dirty as heck. Now they think they can just throw some machine learning on top of it to fix everything right as rain. We can all guess how well that will go!

    1. Re:I worked at Nielsen by rh2600 · · Score: 1

      They are not incentivised to fix this, in fact to the contrary, the are incentivised to argue for the authenticity of the data, whilst at the some time working to make it vague and inaccurate. Simply because any crack of light that shows true data is stark and horrific compared to their soft measures designed to look good to ad buyers.

    2. Re:I worked at Nielsen by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      Now they think they can just throw some machine learning on top of it to fix everything right as rain. We can all guess how well that will go!

      Actually, fixing misspellings that are close to one valid title and far from any others is something machine learning is pretty good at.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  21. Easy fix... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Non reported shows = 0.

    Non submission/bad spelling hurts their rating more than submitting with the correct name each week.

    Problem solved.

    Disclaimer: I work with similar data sets...there is a lot you can do to keep them honest!

  22. If only it applied to other things by Lirodon · · Score: 1

    No, that was not Windows Vista, that was Wndowes Vista.

  23. Old people like their habits by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Somehow Home Shopping Network is worth 2 billion dollars even with Amazon in the arena. I imagine people throwing money at the screen when any commercial airs; somebody must be buying. I can't understand why.

    Inertia and habits play a large part in it. The average age of a QVC shopper is 53 and 95% of their sales come from repeat shoppers. So we're mostly talking about older people who got discovered QVC before the internet was a thing continue to shop with them because its an old habit they are comfortable with. It seems unlikely that younger shoppers will come on board so the days of QVC are likely numbered but not for a few decades more.

    1. Re:Old people like their habits by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      QVC has actually done a lot to keep up technologically. They make a good deal of revenue from purchases made by people watching their streams via their apps on mobile, Roku, AppleTV, Facebook, and their website. $4b of their $8.7b in revenue from 2016 was from people using the apps to make purchases. source

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:Old people like their habits by mentil · · Score: 1

      Just wait until the account holders realize the buttons their grandchildren press on the phone can lead to a $3,000 Chromebook appearing on their doorstep.
      Seriously though, QVC/HSN are to broadcast as Amazon is to Netflix (or, uh, Amazon Prime Video). Only people who don't know how to search, or don't know what they want, will go that route.

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  24. Network programmer discovers this weird trick... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Network programmer discovers this weird trick for hiding low rated shows. Advertisers hate him!

  25. Top Hollywood exec Alan Smithee has apologized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the quality of those episodes, and for teh typoes.

  26. Ratings mean shit by mark-t · · Score: 2

    The networks will air whatever the people that pay them air... I can't count how many times I have seen what looked like a promising show cancelled before a dozen episodes, or after just one intriguing season, on an alleged claim of "poor ratings" when a cursory look at the actual ratings shows that the show had actually performed quite well.

    1. Re:Ratings mean shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better off Ted and Firefly are my all time faves, and they got axed way before their time. Also SG-Universe was just working its magic before the great hammer fell.

      It would be prudent of a streamer to pick them back up with the old cast asap before the old cast become too old.

  27. The Summary makes it clear by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    folks know this is going on. You think they didn't notice those typos in their spreadsheets? It was allowed as a quick and dirty way to account for occasional low ratings. The story is they're using it to cover up dropping viewership. Probably from Streaming, video games, folks who can't afford cable after the last big economic crash, etc, etc.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  28. Old people use ipads by sjbe · · Score: 1

    QVC has actually done a lot to keep up technologically. They make a good deal of revenue from purchases made by people watching their streams via their apps on mobile, Roku, AppleTV, Facebook, and their website.

    And yet the average age of their shoppers is still quite old and nearly all of their customer (95%) are repeat customers. So that implies that they are capturing the more technologically savvy of the customers they already had. Even my 98 year old grand mother has an iPad. It's easy enough to advertise an app to facilitate purchases so QVC realizing a lot of revenue though app purchases doesn't actually surprise me much.. They're just making it easier for their existing customer to do business with them which is smart. I'm not being critical of anyone - if QVC has an audience and they make their customers happy then good for them. I don't get the appeal of shopping that way but lots of people do weird shit I don't fully comprehend.

    I'm willing to lay odds that QVC doesn't move a heck of a lot of product through Roku purchases though...