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Crypto-Bashing Prime Minister Argues The Laws Of Mathematics Don't Apply In Australia (independent.co.uk)
An anonymous reader quotes the Independent:Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has said the laws of mathematics come second to the law of the land in a row over privacy and encryption... When challenged by a technology journalist over whether it was possible to tackle the problem of criminals using encryption -- given that platform providers claim they are currently unable to break into the messages even if required to do so by law -- the Prime Minister raised eyebrows as he made his reply. "Well the laws of Australia prevail in Australia, I can assure you of that. The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia," he said... "The important thing is to recognise the challenge and call on the companies for assistance. I am sure they know morally they should... They have to face up to their responsibility."
Facebook has already issued a statement saying that they "appreciate the important work law enforcement does, and we understand the need to carry out investigations. That's why we already have a protocol in place to respond to any requests we can.
"At the same time, weakening encrypted systems for them would mean weakening it for everyone."
Facebook has already issued a statement saying that they "appreciate the important work law enforcement does, and we understand the need to carry out investigations. That's why we already have a protocol in place to respond to any requests we can.
"At the same time, weakening encrypted systems for them would mean weakening it for everyone."
Can't take this anymore...
old old joke. couldn't top Turnbull's though.
don't tell the government to go fuck themselves.
I hate their subservience
something else.
What? Want citation? Just give me 30 minutes and then check Wikipedia.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Maybe while he is at it he can use his irrational fears to make pi legally equal to three and save us all a lot of work.
There is already sufficient mass of people who believe encryption can have proper backdoors for police enforcement, or even worse that only criminals have something to hide. We have seen this discourse in recent political cycles, and given tendency to mark any expert opinion as "fake news" do not help either.
The "geek" image given on media always helps portray fake ability to overcome anything. Even Star Trek had this: "10 hours, you have 2". I would assume people are thinking "the experts are just lazy, they say it cannot be done, but in fact they are just avoiding the work".
I'm not sure it will be solved in a short while, once people understand why proper encryption is necessary (i.e: loss of online commerce, or even bank account contents) the sentiment might start to change.
Malcolm Turnball (or Chairman Mal as we call him) is an ex lawyer from a privileged background who lucked into dropping a few bucks into some 1990's "computer thingy that my financial advisor assures me is a good investment" and riding in the wave of the first tech boom, to the tune of about 300 million dollars.
He honestly considers himself the smartest person in the room.
He's a fucking lawyer who won life's big lottery.
I'm sure you guys have similar stories about your politicians.
The sooner this imbecile is gone from politics, the better.
Politics is obviously a test of popularity. Not a test of intelligence.
Australian politicians fear being seen as weak on an issue more than anything else. It's fine to seem idiotic and uneducated on an issue, but weak? No.
It's disappointing to me that we still use the word 'law' to refer to entirely different things:
1. Things humans make up that they then want other human beings to follow.
2. Things humans make up after observing something in order to describe it.
Descriptive laws and prescriptive laws are exact opposites, both chronologically and causally.
Aside from eliminating privacy for everyone, can measures like this be expected to actually fight terror or crime at all? Encryption is essentially a solved problem; a coordinated terror group needs only do a little work to make its own app using strong end to end encryption in the backend. Insisting that popular messaging apps be insecure simply robs the common citizen from privacy protection tools without addressing the problem which is claimed to be tackled.
Doubleplusgood
I hope this is a kind of joke. If it is not, then he should pass a law to trump gravity, so that Australian can quickly become a world-class leader as flying cars supplier.
Either he believes that he knows more than experts, or he believes that experts are liars. Which is it?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I for one look forward to Australia's War on Mathematics.
Wasn't it Kansas that wanted to pass a law to require the value of PI be EXACTLY equal to 3.14? I know it was some state in the US. Silly politicians that have no sense of reality.
You know damn well, they'll simply reduce the crypto till it can be broken. It's not a law of maths that says bad crypto cannot be forced on products by incompetent politicians!
He needs to think: What would Putin do to my country if I undermined my countries security.
Because these people always think in terms of themselves as the good guys reading the bad guys communications, but its more likely to be a rogue nation attacking a more successful good nation.
If USA had all these hacks, and it could not protect it's elections from Putin, then how would Australia protect itself with weakened crypto?
or a simile, I can't remember which is which. It was also meant to distract from the issue. While we're all busy laughing at him and going ha-ha he's busy convincing the rest of his country to go along with his scheme.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
This reminds me of a satirical piece by Mark Boslough about the Alabama state legislature wanting to change the value of Pi from the irational value of 3.14159... to the simplier biblical value of 3.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
And of course, not to mention back in 1897, when the Indiana state legislature seriously considered defining Pi to 3.2.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
This is especially interesting considering that the seeds for the Brainpool elliptic curve domain parameters, used for crypto especially in European passports and government ID cards, were defined over values from "Pi" & "e".
http://www.ecc-brainpool.org/d...
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf...
Maybe Australia will ban Europeans with their unbreakable crypto in their passports from visiting?
This is 21st century update of Euclid telling Ptolemy there are no royal roads to geometry.
History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme, etc. etc.
https://www.malcolmturnbull.co...
Liberty thru marksmanship never caught-hold downunder ...
Y'might wanna tell that to Ned Kelly, mate. He found out all about marksmanship, the hard way.
Wot? Oh, look it up, for Christ's sake, ya dopey seppo. I'm not ya mum.
With the laws of physics, and their inevitable retort to him.
This sounds like the crap coming out of the USA's congress nowdays. Yeah, I used a lower case c. When congress decides to be great again I'll capitalize it, but for now they're a bunch of kids arguing over their sippy cups.
need to make a collect call to him and ask about what way the water runs in his toilet
The man who tech companies hailed as a boon to the entire tech industry as a former chairman of Ozemail during the rise of the internet. Here's a man who should "get it.".
Ozemail went under during the dot.com crash, but hey I'm sure he had nothing to do with that. Maybe they tried to use some of that that strange mathematical thing.
Come on! We are beyond 1984 now. Try something new.
the "technology" companies first excuse when a government asks for lawful intercepts is "we can't do that its encrypted" when they can tell exactly how long you watched a cat video or what posts you have been looking at because they track that...
(facebook et al is after all a website/platform)
what the australian government was saying very, very badly is that they want access to the platform and didnt want to be burdened by cryptology on the stream.
The information stream might be encrypted but the end points and server certainly not... the problem is who do you give access to ?
The endpoints are in the hands of consumers however the platform is not...
good luck
John Jones
Crikey, are you from the International Drainage Commission?
...and I think existence trumps whatever laws were invented
Before we rush to criticize Turnball, we should consider the positive effects of this. Australian law, to my knowledge, does not provide an axiomatization of the integers. As the standard axioms from Mathematics apparently do not apply, we get some wonderful results:
- income taxes no longer need to be paid, as you can pick of a set of axioms that reduce your tax owing to zero. Heck, you can probably get yourself a hefty refund this way
- the government can no longer make speeding tickets stick, as it's impossible to provide that you were exceeding the posted speed limit
Finally, the incontrovertible proof that politicians are not only completely IGNORANT of technical issues, but that they ARE NOT LISTENING TO THEIR OWN GODS-BE-DAMNED EXPERT TECHNICAL ADVISORS! This shit has got to STOP. Idiots like this need to be removed from office before they doom us all!
who butchered the Australia's future of would be "fast internet speed" but ended fucking everyone up because we're still stuck the same old crappy phone line connection. Seriously though, he's an idiot,
If the Dutch didn't want them, who does?
I am in New Zealand, but there are books in the library that I work at about the "Battle of the Eureka Stockade" more formally known as the Eureka Rebellion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
What is wrong with the major majority English speaking nations ? It is like a virus that makes people stupid is focusing on people who's first language is English. All that seems to be left is Canada, and about half that country speaks French. Maybe I should learn French :)
Scotty knew enough to start with an archaic computer he had never seen before (Ach! The keyboard, yes!) and sketch out the process for generating transparent aluminum, so I would consider him considerably further skilled than a technician.
Maybe we should think of this fictional character as the 23rd century counterpart to a naval officer (Scotty had officer rank, we wasn't a Chief Warrant Officer or such rank) in charge of Engineering on a nuclear aircraft carrier? Who probably has at least an undergrad degree in Nuclear Engineering?
As to getting battered by a shovel, didn't locomotives lose their shovels decades ago when they switched from coal-fired steam to oil-fired Diesel?
The Aussie PM claim that Australian laws are stronger than commendable mathematics make perfect sense if he's got a way to crack encryption.
Math has not shown that solving discrete logarithms need be difficult. Simply nobody has come public with a solution yet. But then why would they?
Politicians, lawyers, economists and militia are another kind of beasts... it makes me feel bad for his followers... seriously.
So, does he want to create the Great Firewall of Australia and nationalize all telecommunications under one big, government owned company?
A quick search shows that Malcolm Turnbull has Royal Blood and he is a direct descendant, all the way through male heirs, of King Canute.
Canute tried to command the tide knowing full well that it would not work to show his idiot advisors that there were limits to the power of the crown. So Turnbull must have been related to Canute's advisors which makes sense since Prime Minister is the modern equivalent to an advisor in a Royal Court even if the power dynamics are now very different.
Perhaps the Queen could step in to re-educate this twit since it worked before for his distant ancestor? I'd suggest having him stand in the middle of the outback in the full sun on a hot summer's day while she signs a law to make the sun to stop shining or 8pm to follow 10am if you want a more mathematical flavour.
Normally, I'm first to demand that corporations are law-abiding and moral but this is the government version of "American patriot" bullshit. It isn't helping the people so it isn't moral. He exposed the truth when he said the government will "call on the companies for assistance": Meaning it's the companies' "responsibility" to empower spying.
Traditionally, Australia has kept business and government separated, meaning the government can't demand businesses provide federal services such as welfare (although there are loopholes for food and housing). The law demanding ISPs surveill their customers is a very long step down a slippery slope and this one may be next. While bills of 'national security' pass into law without discussion, there is a rumour that a bill demanding security back-doors will not be tolerated.
I suspect Oz politicians bumped him off so they could get away with such idiotic statements.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
The laws of reality, and the laws of politics are mutually exclusive. It's like the scene in Ghost Busters where Spengler says "do not cross the streams".
In Australia - if you cross the streams, you would be responsible for a politicians head exploding.
You have to add a negative sign to everything down under because it's upside down.
Table-ized A.I.
When the US was created we had mad bombers, political terror nuts as well as common criminals plotting among themselves against governments, political groups or businesses. That has not changed one bit. Yet the founders had a grip on certain realities including limiting governments and police from running riot over privacy of the public. When such people acted out we hunted them down. So just how do we justify the total invasion of all communications by governments i this era?
I'm sorry everyone that our prime minister is such an idiot. We already knew, now you do to.
those rascals at IBM are further undermining the Australian PM by extending full encryption to everyone: https://www.wired.com/story/ibm-z-mainframe-encryption/
The Law of Australia New England comes 2nd to Aboriginal Law, which is "the law of the land".
Why does he not suspend Newton's law of universal gravitation, locally. Surely that does not apply to him in Australia?
Don't we wish him success...
They certainly aren't nerdy enough for Slashdot!
Let's pedant them some more, here on our forum!
The above post would actually warrant insightful if it either stopped before personal name calling, or at least defended it. If you feel he is an imbecile, then explain it in detail. Many of us are not form Australia and have no idea about him. Some more information would be useful.
Somehow, he got elected PM of your country. So, many people don't find him to be a moron. This leaves me to wonder, does Australia just like morons or does he merely happen to disagree with you and you are name calling. If the later, the imbecile in the conversation may not be who you think...
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
are what was used in the elections mostly.
not any interesting computer hacks. the biggest hack was just the revelation that people will believe fake news if it suits them and if not then not so if you flooded the market with fake news of ALL KINDS then people who wanted to believe in trumps views being true and clinton being a kidnapper then then those people could just pick and choose the right news to believe. it's a shotgun approach of fake news and a social hack, like trumps promises - look, all of his promises simply couldn't be true because they conflicted with each other and same with the fake news, but that doesnt matter if you flood stupid people with enough to choose from. it's even easier if those stupid people think they're smart.
i say news but I really mean twitter and fb posts like pizzagate.
it's not like trump would even needed russia for that or that it would have helped either.. but who knows.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I wonder what would that guy say while falling out of a window.
"I protest! Gravity is illegal!"
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
And little Malcolm thought it was for changing the math rather than his grades. And nobody ever told him otherwise.
Will this idiot will resign after such a public display of his own stupidity? I suspect not. It is scary that someone with such a low level of intelligence can achieve any kind of power.
Look, we call it "laws of nature", but they are nothing like the laws that are written into law books. It's just an unfortunate choice of words that causes confusion in some minds that take things too literal.
But have fun compensating for that silly law of gravity with a new  in your countries law books...
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Next thing you know, those Aussies will try to pass a law that says PI=3.2, like they tried to do in Indiana USA in 1897:
http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/Localgov/Second%20Level%20pages/indiana_pi_bill.htm
The only reason that attempt to legislate PI failed was because a Professor of Mathematics happened by chance to be visiting the Indiana Senate the day of the vote, and he prevailed upon them with logic. But today's politicians don't bother to listen to logic, mathematics or science!
RSA relies on multiplication of large numbers. Fast multiplication of large numbers is usually done using fast fourier transforms. FFT relies on the value of the number Pi.
I'm sure that if you redefine Pi = 3, then you can crack RSA.
So, a politician uses a glib answer to shut up an annoying reporter - is that really news? And he is right, to some degree: in a nation ruled by law, it is of course the law of the land that applies; mathematics may or may not have informed the legislation, but nobody is going to argue in court that the "Laws of Mathematics" overrule the laws of the country, so let's not go overboard.
A lot of legislation consists of guiding principles or declarations of intent; one might even say that the introduction of new laws is a part of the ongoing debate about how to adjust to the ever changing reality of society. The big internet companies have been extremely reluctant to engage with governments around the world in adressing the issues of terrorism, organised crime and other harmful activities that large, social media enable; the media companies always come up with these excuses, like "it is impossible" (meaning, it might hurt our profits), but even govermments employ people who have expert insight and are able to think. I don't think they are demanding the impossible - they are forcing the media companies to come to the table and make serious efforts to solve the problems in a realistic way, which they are quite capable of.
Will Quantum encryption be legal, or do Australian laws come above the laws of physics too?
Gambini: So, Mr. Tipton, how could it take you five minutes to cook your grits, when it takes the entire grit-eating world 20 minutes.
Mr. Tipton: I don't know. I'm a fast cook, I guess.
Gambini: I'm sorry, I was all the way over here. I couldn't hear you. Did you say you're a fast cook? That's it?! Are we to believe that boiling waters soaks into a grit faster in your kitchen than on any place on the face of the earth?!
Mr. Tipton: I don't know.
Gambini: Well perhaps the laws of physics cease to exist on your stove! Were these magic grits? I mean, did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?!
So the idea was to get the engineers (who are really technicians and troubleshooters in the show; ; the real engineers are back at Mars designing the next-generation starships) to cut corners to come up with something workable even if it's very risky, or to come up with some new approach that takes less time (again, risky).
I'm wondering if you haven't actually worked as an engineer by that statement or if you do you have an exceptionally rare ivory tower job. I've got nearly three decades experience as a working engineer and I can assure you that a good portion of nearly every real world engineer's time is spent troubleshooting and fixing technical problems. Exactly the sort of stuff you are describing on the show. Very few engineers worthy of the title manage to stay back at the home office designing product without getting their hands dirty fixing the inevitable problems that result when their design breaks or is asked to do what it wasn't designed for. Engineers are asked all the time to come up with stop gap solutions as well as ways to same money, time, or other resources. Think Apollo 13. You seriously want to claim those guys were just "technicians and troubleshooters" just because they were coming up with workable-but-risky solutions? The "real engineers" aren't just drawing stuff on a white board in the office - the job is actually much more diverse than that and the good news is that it's much more interesting as a result.
Another part of the engineer's job they don't tell you about in school is how much time you'll spend writing and revising documentation. And it's been my experience that a large portion of the engineers out there are rather bad at this mundane but very important task. They tend to overlook details rather routinely and they forget that they aren't writing primarily for themselves. The point of engineering documentation is to describe something so OTHER PEOPLE can understand what needs to be done efficiently and to the smallest relevant detail. That's something they could teach in colleges but do not for some reason.
It's a good thing the laws of physics don't apply universally!
This is the "gentleman" who killed the plan to run fiber to every premises for high speed internet!
Instead, to "save money" he changed it to Fiber To The Node, using the old copper for the last part.
This has blown out to cost more than the Fiber To The Premises, and can maybe max out at 25Mbits, whereas the fiber could be expanded in the future to really huge bandwidths.
In his mind, the plebs do not need or deserve the best.
(We are lucky to be included in the Fiber To The Premises at our place)
Oz had the chance to be world best in internet and he tossed it away! Now he is demonstrating his continued misunderstanding of the net.
Another maths miscalculation???
Just what we need for a leader, NOT!
There's nothing wrong with the bidet, is there?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It seems to me that if lawmakers enforce the requirement that messaging apps/systems allow access to the original messages submitted by users, and refuse to understand that the laws of mathematics cannot be subverted by mere humans, except by simply disallowing those features ... then the appropriate response by messaging apps is to leave the presentation, user input, and encryption layers to plugins. Those plugins would submit messages already encoded/encrypted and would be compiled/installed by end users as add-ons, from source, on an individual basis, thus pushing the legal responsibility "to the edge." I.e., onto individual users of the system.
What would lawmakers do then? Disallow the transmission of unintelligible encrypted messages? Would the response to that be to embed encrypted messages inside intelligible messages? Would they disallow the very coding and distribution of encryption schemes and source code?
Clearly, this is not a battle that can be won by fiat; which is the same reason that cryptocurrencies will eventually usurp fiat currencies; and the reason that battle lines will be drawn in the sphere of influence of knowledge and code.
The stance of these legislators, to me, is akin to "Burn the books!" and "Burn the witches (i.e., cryptographers)!"
Law enforcement would be better served by funding development of side-channel attacks and unmasking methodologies that do not rely on the content of messages.
This is not about him not understanding the difference between symmetric and asymmetric encryption. This is him not only not understanding the difference between a natural law (i.e. one that simply applies whether he likes it or not) and a human made law (i.e. the bullshit he usually creates and deals with). Mathematics isn't up for negotiation. It's nothing you can implement or not, it is something that simply is the way it is. You also can't argue with gravity whether you want to fall off a cliff. This ain't no Bugs Bunny cartoon where you don't fall until you look down and do a double take. Gravity simply applies.
But that's only half the problem. And because he is already too dimwitted to understand this particularly mundane fact that any child older than 8 can grasp without a problem (i.e. that there are rules you can't break because you break your leg if you try and there are rules you can break as long as your parents don't catch you), he of course cannot understand the ramifications his blunder would have on the Australian economy. Because outside his little crayon-drawn world, in reality, people do understand the implications of a broken and hence worthless encryption, and certainly will not want to do business in a country where it is MANDATORY to not be able to sensibly keep your data from being spied upon.
The longer Australia has to deal with this prime idiot, the worse it will be to rebuild afterwards.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Australia. Austria is a much smaller country on pretty much the opposite end of the globe.
The politicians aren't much more intelligent, though.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Just to make it clear: Does that mean I get a reward or is that still illegal?
Just checking...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This is great news actually, because it means that this moron is not the PM of Australia. After all, to become PM you must be the leader of the party with the largest representation in parliament. If the laws of Mathematics don't apply, well... how can you say that one number is larger than another?
The problem is, Malcolm Turnbull was not elected through solid campaigning and rational thinking. He was elected through fear mongering and backrooom preference deals.
When the election was over, it took two weeks to count the votes before we even knew who won, it came down to preference from the minor parties. The laws of mathematics do not necessarily apply in politics.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
All the five eyes have this policy irrespective of controlling party. It does not matter who you elect there are almost certainly going to be laws in place making backdoors mandatory for encrytion.
Australia, often lauded by the US gun control movement, is a country where the populace no longer has a say. That's right, they willingly gave up their weapons 20 years ago in the name of "safety", but now they are no longer safe from the tyranny of their own government. How can Australians protect themselves from a rogue leader who is hell-bent on usurping any sort of privacy the common citizen holds on to?
Has IQ's dropped sharply while I was away?
What he is saying is that you can not write laws to adopt to current technology. You can not make murder legal just because its impossible to stop someone from kill someone else. You can give the law the right to search an encrypted dataset even if it is not technologically feasible to do so.
Please stop with the left wing tactics /. It does not become you.
I bet he thinks discrete logs are what adders hide under in order to multiply without being seen. Because he once overheard mathematicians talk.
Fool for a leader.
Quick Australia make a law saying that the Riemann hypothesis, P vs NP and the other math Millennium Prize Problems are solved. Then we will at least get some answers out of this crazy law system.
1 + 1 = 3
You need metalurgy to create a gun. You need mathematics to create a cryptographic messaging system. What is being proposed is a ban of cryptographic message systems. Not a revocation of mathematical laws. It would not necessarily mean wholesale implementation of mandatory back doors, it could simply mean being imprisoned for not surrendering a cryptograhic key when a warranted, with judicial review, demand is made to surrender said key.
I am not a full throated advocate for this. I am just trying to point out that hurr-durr carrying on in forums like this, acting like "they are trying to repeal the law of gravity" is dorky and non-productive.
You needn't know the ins and outs of metallurgy to make gun laws, but knowing that hot chocolate is probably not a great idea to pour down a barrel for maintenance should be required before you create laws that deal with rules that dictate what "in good repair" means when it comes to handgun conditions.
I don't expect him to know the ins and outs of encryption, not even that he can tell the difference between elliptic curve ciphers and block ciphers. I don't want him to implement one. But I do require him to understand the ramifications of laws that he proposes, which he very blatantly does not do.
In some cases it is impossible to surrender such a key. If I store data that is already encrypted, you can threaten to hang me and I cannot provide the key. You can of course make it illegal to store data I have no key for, but that is the death spell to any and all cloud services your country would offer, because why the fuck would I store my data in your country? Even (or rather, especially) if I live in that country I would not want your service and go to one that honors my privacy.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Nice post thanks! This is what slashdot should be in the ideal. The forums should not ask to agree with every viewpoint being laid out. However, they should demand that things that are being modded up be like the above post: thoughtful, detailed, and minimized name calling. I would argue for highest ratings, a link or two for fact checking an argument would be great.
With this type of post one could have an honest discussion and learn something, which is what a real Nerd would do.
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
Asked whether the laws of mathematics behind encryption would trump any new legislation, Mr Turnbull said: "The laws of Australia prevail in Australia, I can assure you of that.
"The laws of mathematics are very commendable but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."
I picture things down there like this: Malcolm Turnbull observed the levels of idiocy displayed by people like Tony Abbott, and said, "Hold my beer," or whatever the fuck it is they drink in that place.
Remember this is the same dickhead who uses encrypted messaging platforms.
This guy once was the Communications Minister as well as invested in a start-up ISP in the 90s.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/201...
The physical laws of mathematics will long outlive any 'Australian Law'. Even those mathematical laws we do not know yet (say in Quantun Theory) will be discovered , and found to have worked since in our knowledge the known universe existed.
Regards Eion MacDonald
As long as the law of the land is truly righteous!
However, in light of the prevalence of corrupt governments - including in the USA - I am much more pro-people's rights.
Until we the people can set in stone what constitutes a true crime, then I reserve ALL the rights to personal privacy.
Blame this rift on corrupt law enforcement and political entities, as well as totally untrust-able corporate entities (that deserve NO rights).
As long as I am not hurting anyone, then I reserve ALL of my rights - especially privacy. I suggest you do nothing to cause me to seek harm on you!!!
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.