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Windows 10 Will Cut Off Devices With Older CPUs (pcworld.com)
Reader Baron_Yam shares a PCWorld report: No Windows 10 Creators Update for you, Microsoft says -- at least, not if you happen to be the unlucky owner of certain older Atom-based Windows devices, and other aging models in the future. After stories arose of failed attempts to upgrade such hardware to the Creators Update, Microsoft confirmed late Wednesday that any hardware device that falls out of the manufacturer's support cycle may be ineligible for future Windows 10 updates. In the case of the four "Clover Trail" processors (part of the Cloverview platform) that have fallen into Intel's End of Interactive Support phase, they will be ineligible for the Windows 10 Creators Update, Microsoft confirmed. Instead, they'll simply be offered the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, plus security updates through January, 2023, the end of the original Windows 8.1 support period. The problem, however, is that Microsoft's language opens up the possibility that any unsupported hardware device could be excluded from future Windows 10 updates. "Recognizing that a combination of hardware, driver and firmware support is required to have a good Windows 10 experience, we updated our support lifecycle policy to align with the hardware support period for a given device," Microsoft said in a statement. "If a hardware partner stops supporting a given device or one of its key components and stops providing driver updates, firmware updates, or fixes, it may mean that device will not be able to properly run a future Windows 10 feature update." The reader adds, it's not a case of "feature updates are not recommended and may not work", it's a case of "we will block feature updates to your device".
Can they offer basic video drivers / let people use an video card?
SVGA / visa fall back?
windows server basic video mode?
Where can I get me some of these CPUs? I've been looking for a way to stop Windows 10 updates.
No such thing. Windows has sucked ass since Windows 2000.
I can see video cards that need drivers, but what support does a CPU need to keep functioning with newer versions of Windows?
That's ridiculous, they can't just suddenly pull the
Table-ized A.I.
Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux. Linux.
Seriously, though: Bite the bullet and put Linux on it. Make the effort to learn how to use a Linux system properly, and you will reap benefits in privacy, security and protecting your identity that far outstrip the effort you put in.
Linux is not perfect, but it's far better than an "operating system" that reports all of your personal information and activities on the Internet just so M$ can make money off you, while still charging you a "subscription" for the privilege of being abused.
They're blocking patches to older OSes if you run them on newer hardware. (http://www.pcworld.com/article/3181814/windows/microsoft-says-its-blocking-windows-7-8-patches-on-latest-amd-intel-chips.html)
The pretext is to ensure better compatibility but it seems a lot more likely this is to ensure that if you're in a Windows environment, you're on an upgrade treadmill.
Update your hardware? Now you have to update your OS. And the hardware update cycle tends to be 3-5 years, whereas keeping an OS for over a decade isn't that uncommon.
To all those older PCs (and their owners) that still do what the owners need them to just fine, but want to keep getting needed security updates, not handing over HD streaming telemetry and everything that happens in their houses, etc...
Welcome to Linux.
For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.
My work is putting Windows 10 into production in September, which is surprising since Windows 8 never made it out testing. With newer hardware only being supported by Windows 10, the powers to be decided to leap into the unknown. That's job security on my end since something will inevitably go wrong.
So Android is trying to *fix* their update problems by trying to better segregate the portions of their platform that are heavily dependent on the specific hardware vendors from the upper application layers. In this way, they can work toward fixing the problem where Android devices are notorious for not being able to take updates, since it's all one big lump today.
Microsoft seems to be going the other direction, having a big monolithic glob of crap, where a hardware vendor dropping out means you suddenly can't get, say, a new version of paint, or a fix for some software bug (they said *security* updates would continue, but you have some crash in some application that isn't exploitable, well tough because the really unrelated graphics driver they want doesn't exist). Even worse because it's all 'Windows 10', so now when something says 'Windows 10' it's really hard to know which 'Windows 10' is really meant.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Microsoft confirmed. Instead, they'll simply be offered the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, plus security updates through January, 2023, the end of the original Windows 8.1 support period.
So Microsoft is going to give the Anniversary Update 7 years of security updates, that's great. Now give everybody else the chance to step off the upgrade bandwagon. Seriously it's proven time and time again that they could let you do it and it wouldn't really cost them anything because they're going to make those patches anyway, but they won't.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
intels powerVR after they cut off nvidia from atom chipsets. At the same time AMD was all 64 bit! but intel pushed out low end 32 bit only cpus.
This isnt a hardware support issue.
When a piece of code asks what hardware its running on and refuses to continue to run when it doesnt like the answer... thats not a hardware issue... thats a software issue.
This isnt about supporting hardware at all. Its about sabotaging it.
"His name was James Damore."
Rememebrr, Apple does exactly this.
It's, in a way, the same key mistake they did with windows phone:
- they released WP7, and offered no upgrade path to WP 8, basically rendering obsolete all 7 phones when they released WP8
- they released WP8 and the 8.1 update. They even managed to gain some market share.
- they announced WP10, saying that "all devices running 8 will be updated". They even released betas that were working on the older phones, except...
- on the day of release they dropped support for almost all the phones they sold, breaking the promise to update them and making almost all of the existing OS market share obsolete
- when releasing Windows 10 they were saying that "this is the last Windows ever" promising to finally kill version fragmentation, except with the creators update they didn't update all their phones, dropping the support again and making the last few phones remaining obsolete
- now that they have nothing to kill on the phone side, probably the same executive moved to the pc section...
Good luck with this
auto drive cars may not last 2-3 years when software updates end or when they try bs like to fit super maps 2025 you need to upgrade to an 2TB hdd (dealer install price $500-$1000 (non SSD))
time for better windows ver nameing.
Like your hardware will only work with windows 10.5.X and can't run windows 10.6.X.
We did prevent this. We're still quite happily running on Windows 7, even on machines purchased just a few months ago.
Of course, Microsoft has also rigged the system so you can no longer buy a new PC with Windows 7 preinstalled. So now we're not buying any new PCs for a while and will make do with what we've got. We're assuming something has to give before the 2020 cliff, whether it's MS providing a version of Windows 10 without the major downsides for non-enterprise customers, Apple getting their act together again so MacBooks are a viable alternative, or some other platform becoming more attractive to software developers so alternatives to the key programs we depend on are available elsewhere.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
More and more Windows is starting to look like a walled garden, and I've simply stopped caring.
Windows 7 runs everything I need for at least the next 20 years. I'm seriously at the point in my life where I don't want to deal with this upgrade treadmill anymore- I got enough of that from Apple, thank you very much. I've even stopped giving a shit about security- I've got a beefy OpenBSD firewall at the edge of my network, and hourly backups for everything else. Just because the software is old doesn't mean it's any less useful, and I really don't care if I'm not "perfectly secure" and vulnerable to attack by the NSA or some other determined third party.
I've already skipped several major purchases because I simply don't want anything to do with Windows 10. I can't rely on those devices to work on any given day due to the forced updates, and now apparently I can't even rely on the updates themselves depending on whatever magical generation of CPU I've got (the last time I had to deal with anything even remotely CPU related was when MMX came out). Who's to say my Windows 10 box won't auto update itself and then get stuck in a broken configuration because it's no longer supported by MS? It is simply impossible to predict the future reliability of these devices, and as someone who relies on computers to make money, I don't want anything to do with that bullshit. I'll take my chances with older software that already does what I want right now where I can rely on that not to change unless I explicitly change it myself.
Fuck modern day hardware and software. That's all I've got to say about that. I remember the uproar over Palladium back in the day. What we've got now is so much more worse. Why are people putting up with it now? Is it because the idiot masses make up the majority of PC sales and they're too stupid to care as long as they can log into Facebook and fire up Angry Birds?
I think that there is a real chance of some flavor of Linux making it with decisions like this from MS.
I wish that *someone* would rally the community behind a single "intro version" for noobs to the Linux ecosystem.
As more and more applications become web based the host OS that you're on makes less and less difference.
There are issues with outlook and exchange to deal with and there are issues with some games not running on Linux, but for a simple email/web/social media/pictures system Linux is a very viable alternative already.
Does Amazon prime video and Netflix work on linux yet? That may be a killer, IDK. I use Chromecast for netflix and firestick for prime video, so no clue if they work on linux or not.
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
I run Windows in a virtual machine. It runs better, safer and faster. The simpler the hardware you give windows, the better it runs, and it has no access to my critical files, so they can't be contaminated with windows Malware or DRM [Digital Restrictions Management].
I can change my CPU. WIndows runs on what I want/need it to run on, no questions.
Don't want to activate? Fine, a '30 day' evaluation works for me. Wipe, rinse, repeat.
But they won't.
Which brings us to the rub of the nub: Why would anybody still bother to use that crap?
No, not the crappy and backdoored hardware. The software.
I think that there is a real chance of some flavor of Linux making it with decisions like this from MS.
I wish that *someone* would rally the community behind a single "intro version" for noobs to the Linux ecosystem.
As more and more applications become web based the host OS that you're on makes less and less difference.
There are issues with outlook and exchange to deal with and there are issues with some games not running on Linux, but for a simple email/web/social media/pictures system Linux is a very viable alternative already.
Does Amazon prime video and Netflix work on linux yet? That may be a killer, IDK. I use Chromecast for netflix and firestick for prime video, so no clue if they work on linux or not.
This isn't an opportunity for Linux. Most people leave the OS on their computer that it came with, only upgrading when they get a new computer. In other words, the vast majority of computer owners will buy a new computer if they are told that their old one can't be updated any longer. They aren't going to choose Linux because their apps won't work on it and they won't want to learn how to use a new OS.
The biggest opportunity for Linux, in my opinion, is the Cloud. As more apps become available within the browser for desktop and mobile, it becomes less of a requirement to be running a specific OS. That would just leave Desktop Gaming as the primary determining factor.
The drawback of having all of your Apps in the Cloud is that, in most cases, your data will also be stored there as well. So Privacy and Data Theft could also be a concern. Most people, though, seem to have little concern with putting their data in the Cloud.
That's what MS is best at: screwing up its customers. Those of you who are still using Windows because you are locked in, you have my commiserations. The rest, I won't say screw you because you already are.
drop 32 bit mode like server (not 32 bit apps)
On one hand, they are offering security updates through the expected lifetime of the OS that shipped with the devices. So I guess that's reasonable, and it probably avoids potential legal complaints.
On the other hand, they are engaged in massive cost-cutting that forces users onto an upgrade treadmill. I can understand that you don't want to validate your software against every piece of hardware from the last decade. But other developers are clearly capable of it.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Does Amazon prime video and Netflix work on linux yet?
Yes both work on Linux. Outlook compat depends on what you need from it. I've used DavMail plus Thunderbird+Lighting to do pretty much everything I needed to get done from an Exchange 365 server. I've not been disappointed by Steam on Linux so there's that, but I'm not exactly "MUST HAVE AAA GAME!!" so my opinion may not count.
I think some of the gas from the grey breads in Linux has left and moved on to BSD ever since the reckoningd. Also with mobile basically smashing desktop, there's not much home (hey bro this is cool) interest in "Linux-the-desktop" either. So if you do hit up a corner of Linux you'll either get what grey beards are left fighting with young whipper snappers about "Unix-mentality-is-GOD!!" or you'll get a quiet place where the last activity was three months ago letting everyone know that a project that's not been updated in the last two years isn't dead.
Point being, don't expect any magical massive shift to promote Linux desktop. Most people are "meh" and use it and don't care, are too busy fighting the "enemyd", or they've just moved on out of Linux/desktop-all-together.
Trying to get a new OS to work with an old driver is hard. In fact it's so hard, that Linux pretty much requires drives to be compiled for your exact kernel. Trying to do this without assistance from the manufacturer of the device seems like a fools errand. The policy here seems quite reasonable. MSFT will provide updates for as long as the device manufacturer supports the device. After that you still get security updates but no high-risk feature updates. This makes Microsoft's job a lot easier. But it also helps the device manufacturers. The hardware business is somewhat commoditized and the margins are razor-thin. This allows vendors to differentiate and make a few more points of margin by supporting the hardware for longer. That should be easier if the hardware is of higher quality so it also prevents a race to the bottom. Sure there are a few people out there who want to try to run Windows/10 creator on their 386/33. And those people will figure out how to obtain and install the latest version of Windows whether Microsoft provides it via the update mechanism or not. Some people will complain about everything Microsoft. But it's really hard to find valid complaints about Windows as a consumer OS. Mac OS and Linux are out there but it's not a case of them being better and people not knowing. They are probably about equal to Windows but not enough of an improvement to compel a switch. Obviously in the data center, Linux is eating Windows' lunch but that's a different situation. Nobody runs unsupported hardware there. Well, at least they shouldn't.
These older computers would be perfect for Linux, if Linux developers would stop shooting themselves in the foot by making sure people with old hardware cannot use Linux, things like dropping XAA support to make sure older video cards will not work with Linux, and now the Wayland disaster, which is specifically designed to make Linux unuseable on older hardware and anything less, it seems, than the most recent $300 super duper Intel or AMD graphics adapters (lets not even go into the Nvidia driver disaster).
Windows 10 has to be the single best example of how NOT to roll out an operating system.
Forcing people to migrate their hardware out of fear that their OS will simply stop running arbitrarily, is complete and utter bullshit. Where do they get the right to arbitrarily change their license/support terms on the fly like this?
And why hasn't any governments slapped them into next year for it?
Honestly I don't need the "feature creep" of new versions anyhow. If I need to do something that wasn't included in the prior version of Windows, then I already have software designed to fill that need. The only problem I can see is that incorporating features into the mainline version of Windows can lead to developers abandoning products because their market has been undercut. Those who still need them will be stuck with old versions of both OS and app. I would rather have had the option of continuing with Anniversary on both of my machines, but doing a fresh install for Creators on my desktop turned out to be a blessing anyhow. All sorts of weird little glitches accumulated from years of in-place upgrades got resolved at once.
MS says security patches will continue. If they're good to their word, I don't see any major problems with this other than the aforementioned gutting of third party app support due to a loss of revenue.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
This is a pretty underhanded way to get users who don't need to upgrade their machines to upgrade.
There is no technical reason (that I'd believe) for Windows 10 to not function on any given hardware configuration. In fact, Windows 10 has been a champ about being moved between hardware setups without really hiccuping much.
I definitely call BS on Microsoft. They're simply giving PC manufacturers a handup by arbitrarily by declaring a hardware profile to be unsupported.
It almost made sense for this stance on Windows 7/8.* and 7th gen Intel CPU's, but this.. this is market manipulation.
Windows10 should be only run in a VM.
I've been having issues with Windows 10 'losing it's activation' when it runs in a VM. Any one else? Any suggested fixes?
I've thought about it. You buy the right motherboard and the right video card and you can pass through your KVM functions and have your host be your PC even through your PC is a VM on your host.
Unfortunately, my current hardware isn't 100% compatible with that functionality under VMware and all I get is blue screens.
It would make life a lot easier though... just taking a snapshot before any new software is tried out or you go somewhere 'risky' on that nasty old Internet. I know Windows has some of that built in, but I've never seen it actually WORK when I needed it to.
We did prevent this. We're still quite happily running on Windows 7, even on machines purchased just a few months ago.
Of course, Microsoft has also rigged the system so you can no longer buy a new PC with Windows 7 preinstalled. So now we're not buying any new PCs for a while and will make do with what we've got. We're assuming something has to give before the 2020 cliff, whether it's MS providing a version of Windows 10 without the major downsides for non-enterprise customers, Apple getting their act together again so MacBooks are a viable alternative, or some other platform becoming more attractive to software developers so alternatives to the key programs we depend on are available elsewhere.
Apple already has their act together. That's why they don't pull shit like this (yes, everyone eventually obsoletes hardware; but Apple has a VERY good reputation for not doing this, especially for 64-bit systems).
You can still order workstations from Dell with Windows 7. But you can't pick the latest generation i7 CPU.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Someone writes SolidWorks builds for Linux I'll switch right over. Mac is nearly as bad in this regard. Just recently Autodesk came out with AutoCAD for OSX.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
It's pretty easy to avoid obsoleting hardware when the only hardware you support is your own.
> force everyone on to the same version of your OS > start dropping support for older hardware without iterating the version number
You could have predicted this.
https://debian.org/
FTFY
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"I think that there is a real chance of some flavor of Linux making it with decisions like this from MS."
Maybe if they got their shit together and stopped trying to be a hobby OS with 250+ distributions, god knows how many toolkits, window managers, compositors, and other bullshit, maybe. How does anyone not go insane trying to develop for that shit? Oh right, they just don't.
Ummm, you don't quite know how the distro system works do ya?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It's pretty easy to avoid obsoleting hardware when the only hardware you support is your own.
You're on to something there, weedhopper.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
If you're using ESXi on the host and have an Intel platform, try disabling the iGPU and (bizarrely) the onboard sound and see if you still get the blue screens.
Early on, Microsoft tells the world "Windows 10 is supported for 10 years."
Later, it tells the world "Windows 10 is supported for 10 years as long as you keep getting feature updates - we support any given feature update for only X years" (X=2-3?).
Later, it tells early adopters "sorry Charlie, you can't get feature updates."
At some point BEFORE the 10-year-anniversary of Windows 10, Microsoft will be breaking one of its early-on promises with respect to those early adopters.
Probably not illegal in MOST jurisdictions, but it might be in a few.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's unlikely I'll be trying that soon enough to be able to post a success/fail report (left mom's basement, got wife and kids... have no life of my own left!) so I'll just thank you for the advice and file it away for when I have some time to actually use it.
You could have prevented this.
https://debian.org/
Umm.. Fuck Debian, and its sucking Poetterings dick wrt systemd..
https://devuan.org/ .... Debian WITHOUT Poetterings shitbaby....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
What I think Microsoft should do is continuously ping a master list of hardware. The second any hardware is no longer supported by the manufacturer Windows should bluescreen or greenscreen or whatever color it is these days with stop error DEVICE_TREADMILL_VIOLATION.
After all if the vendor doesn't support something.. it may not work right or may not be secure or similar specious drivel so crashing is the safest most responsible course of action.
Forget the fact most of the things myself and everyone I know own are long since out of warranty and no longer produced or supported by the original manufacturer in any way.
Forget the fact Microsoft pretends to care about protecting the environment: https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...
At this point anything Microsoft can do to hasten the inevitable rise of not Windows should be encouraged. Only takes a few percent of overall market share to sustain and reinforce alternatives.
Consumer hostility, gone plaid...
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
I think a 2-3 day gap is enough to qualify as not-a-dup in slashdotland
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
I do know how it works and for those even moderately skilled it's great, but it positively kills noobs of all types.
The closest to a noob friendly distro is ubuntu, but I'd think for the Windows -> linux transition crowd KDE would be better for the desktop.
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
linux has always been better with older hardware anyways and you cant expect hardware support on something forever,
Apple would never pull this kind of crap.
Then it's time to patch the installers to remove the offending code.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
PClinuxos is more noob friendly than *buntu and faster to boot (pun intended) and NO sysd if that's an issue too.
http://chimpbox.us
Really? IME Apple's reputation for prematurely obsoleting hardware through OS updates is worse than probably any other major brand. It certainly seems to be around these parts. Some of that might be earned by the way they keep borking iOS updates for mobile devices, but I've also heard a few horror stories about the desktop OS being worse after upgrading than it used to be, even on not-that-old MacBooks.
That said, I was actually talking about Apple more generally, not just about the longevity of their systems. Almost everything they've released, both software and hardware, for at least the past couple of years seems to have ranged from mediocre to downright disappointing. I work in the world of small businesses, where quite a few places run Apple instead of Windows, and right now they appear to be little happier with their situation than we are with ours in Microsoft land.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I don't really see Linux as a viable competitor for the desktop business market, at least not in the typical distro-based model we see today.
For one thing, the long tail of business software applications isn't there. The chicken and egg problem has never been resolved.
Even if the applications were available, the admin tools and usability aren't there either.
With my "running a business" hat on, I don't have time for messing around. I buy computers to get stuff done, and I need them to just work, from hardware support through admin tasks to using the real business software. Current Linux distros are so far from just working in this context that I see no realistic prospect of getting there before the 2020 Windows 7 cliff.
A more promising long-term option involving Linux might be using the kernel and related tools as a reasonably solid foundation but then building a totally new style of UI on top. Think Android or maybe SteamOS. However, as Android has shown, it takes a while to establish such a platform and build the ecosystem, and the business world is much more demanding in its software requirements than the consumer world where Android mostly lives.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
So what happened to UWP, the effort to get Windows to run on multiple devices with varied capabilities and power? Somehow these processors just don't fit in?
And there are distros that at least try to do that.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
There was a category of novice users that I thought would be well served by Ubuntu or Mint or something like that, but their needs are mostly met by tablets nowadays.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Such boneheaded decisions will only cause the already insane pile of e-waste to grow even faster. If a Linux distro can run snappy on a 35$ Pi 3 then Windows should have no problem on an Intel Atom or older CPU. What the heck, now consumers have to spend extra just because Microsoft has thousands of utterly inept developers? Where are the lawmakers when we need them?
Actually, if the hardware is that old, does it have those backdoors? I doubt that Atoms have room for an extra backdoor CPU in them
> force everyone on to the same version of your OS > start dropping support for older hardware without iterating the version number
You could have prevented this.
https://debian.org/
Uh, Stallman doesn't endorse Debian. He endorses something called 'Libre Linux', where any 'binary blobs' get removed. Wonder how usable such a thing would be, sans drivers that are excluded just b'cos they may be close sourced.
Because the people saying one most likely weren't saying the other... since communjties are made up of people with different opinions. 3rd A.C I've seen in this thread who smugly makes this idiotic "contradiction" point.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Aside from the pricing and bang-for-buck, Apple does have its act together. While your usage wasn't exactly clear, it would seem that a Mac Pro would cover just about anything if you're looking for a professional workstation. Their issues have been how long it's taken to upgrade to the latest version of an i5 or i7 or Xeon. But if you want to avoid being on that OS treadmill, where you are forced to upgrade your computer b'cos Microsoft can't support the one that's currently working for you, then the price of a Mac will be well worth it.
While I have a Windows 10 laptop for anything that must have Windows 10, I have largely moved to TrueOS/PC-BSD where it's just emails & internet browsing involved (hope to get PlayOnBSD and Steam on it), and my Android tablet w/ specific apps from different credit cards & so on to manage those online payments & transactions. So if there's a lot of typing involved, I use the laptop, but otherwise, a tablet works well for me. By the time Microsoft switches to a subscription based OS, I would hopefully have eliminated any need to run Windows.
??? ;),
Bought one last week from Dell with Win7 preinstalled.
Shortly after it arrived it also had GWX control panel installed
On that point--which do you prefer? GWXCP or Never10?
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
For what networkBoy was suggesting, it seems that the Chromebook is partially there: what they need to do is stop restricting it to low end configurations, and offer mid range & high end laptops as well, w/ adequate memory & storage. In other words, don't give us anemic laptops that just allow us to upload stuff to Google Drive: offer us a range of laptops, like say, a laptop w/ 4GB of RAM and 256GB SSD that one can use to store one's personal data. Cloud backup should be an option, not mandatory.
PC OEMs, or what's left of them, should do this. Yeah, keep offering your standard Wintel laptops, but offer lines that have ChromeOS as well. Here, they'd even have an option of using ARM CPUs, which could help in the costs & compatibility w/ Android apps department. That way, people who have to have Windows can have it, but people who either want a stable long term OS or who wanna avoid Windows at all costs have a range of price options, other than having to go all out Mac. On Apple's end, they might wanna consider introducing Macs based on their own CPUs, which would help them in terms of making up for the erosion in iPad sales.
KDE is overkill. For Windows to Linux, one might as well go w/ something like Razor-qt or LX/QT. If one is using a BSD, Lumina would be a great option
People who are systemd allergic should do what many have done, and just move completely to one of the BSDs. There's no telling the viability of Devuan, and the ones that haven't gone systemd are more likely just behind the curve. What's the guarantee that Gentoo or Slackware won't go systemd after a certain kernel rev?
Also, when you reach a certain OS limit on a particular hardware, Apple leaves you alone. One downside of that, however - I had an old iPod Touch, whose apps were no longer supported, since it peaked at iOS 4.3. No way can one retrieve those from the app store. It would be nice if the App store recognized a device, and automatically configured itself to only pick software that's supported on that device, so that one isn't left high & dry on a device that's otherwise working perfectly well.
The main reason to not allow upgrades is when a particular computer (I'm including phones & tablets here as well) has limited storage, or other limits that would make an upgraded OS very unresponsive or poor performer. Otherwise, if one gets something w/ adequate resources, it should be upgradable for the foreseeable future.
My experience is mixed. On my iPod Touch, it topped off at iOS 4.3, and then I couldn't even get app store apps. Although in its defense, it was limited in its storage, so it would probably not have been a good idea to upgrade it beyond that.
OTOH, my iPhone 5s was upgradable all the way up to 11, while my iPad Mini 1 up to 10.something. Again, more to do w/ storage. Right now, both my iToys have 128GB of storage, so I should be good for the foreseeable future on those.
Interesting, thanks. That's the second report I've seen of Dell still selling machines with 7 preinstalled, so maybe they've somehow forced MS to back off the policy of only supplying 7 via downgrade rights by now.
To answer your question: neither, we just kept a careful eye on exactly which KBs were related to Windows 10 or other unwanted junk like the backported telemetry, and avoided installing those options at update time. Seemed to work OK for us without relying on anything else, though I expect the tools you mentioned were a useful alternative for some.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Slashdot isn't a monolith. It's driven by user submissions. Different users can submit different stories, and often do.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
No, simply different people posting different stories with different viewpoints on the same events or issues. I know that's difficult for you to accept, but it does happen.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
What is the modern alternative for wine? I haven't needed to use any windows apps from Linux for a long while but you have peaked my interest.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Really? IME Apple's reputation for prematurely obsoleting hardware through OS updates is worse than probably any other major brand. It certainly seems to be around these parts. Some of that might be earned by the way they keep borking iOS updates for mobile devices, but I've also heard a few horror stories about the desktop OS being worse after upgrading than it used to be, even on not-that-old MacBooks.
That said, I was actually talking about Apple more generally, not just about the longevity of their systems. Almost everything they've released, both software and hardware, for at least the past couple of years seems to have ranged from mediocre to downright disappointing. I work in the world of small businesses, where quite a few places run Apple instead of Windows, and right now they appear to be little happier with their situation than we are with ours in Microsoft land.
I think that, even though it is hard to compare iOS obsolescence with any other Mobile OS, because no other Mobile OS seems to actually UPDATE their OS on devices more than once they are out the door at the factory; IMHO, it SEEMS like Apple "obsoletes" their mobile hardware "prematurely", ONLY because of the much more rapid advances in mobile SoCs, making even devices that are only a few generations old seem ridiculously slow in comparison to their more recent counterparts. Then, compound that with features that are designed with that extra processing and display power in mind, and voila!, Apple has "intentionally" sabotaged your old iPad, iPhone or iPod Touch. But, when they release some new iOS feature, but don't allow it to be used on older devices, Apple is "Intentionally Obsoleting" and "Forcing Upgrades". So, they are kind of "damned if they do, damned if they don't" when it comes to extending iOS support to older devices. With all that said, I DO wish Apple would allow DOWNGRADING for iOS devices; so if you Upgrade and Regret it, you could Downgrade.
As for macOS, it is pretty rare to hear of people complaining about "slowness" after a macOS upgrade. In fact, there is often a performance IMPROVEMENT. But again, there is always SOMEBODY that (IMHO imagines) that their Mac runs slower after an update; but I think those people fall into one of two camps: Those who have systems that are memory-starved in the first place; and those who simply imagine things. Neither of those are Apple's fault.
Finally, people always seem to be "disappointed" in Apple. But again, IMHO, that is because Apple is often seen as the company who can do things with "tech" that no one else can. And when that new MacBook Pro (or whatever) comes out, even though it HAS to use the same CPUs and GPUs as EVERYONE else, SOMEHOW Apple is expected to be able to add Faster-than-Light Travel, Teleportation, and Unlimited Free Energy with each new model. IOW, it's about EXPECTATIONS. Everyone else is just supposed to create a computer that doesn't continually crash and eat your files; but Apple is expected to break the laws of physics every single time; and when they don't, people complain that "Apple has lost it".
Apple has been dropping support for their computers for years... they cut off older machines for technical reasons they choose not to accommodate. Which is funny, because unlike Windows, Mac OS only has to support devices hand-picked by Apple and Apple alone. Where Windows releases need to provide support for literally hundreds of sound card, network interfaces and drive controllers, along with thousands of video cards.
Ken
Actually, Linux has the same problem that Windows has - poor driver support for the shitty integrated PowerVR graphics chipset.