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After Emissions Scandal, Volkswagen Pledges Charging Stations Across The US (siliconvalley.com)
Here's how the Volkswagen emissions scandal ends in California -- and the rest of America. An anonymous reader quotes the Bay Area News Group:
In a decision with lasting implications for the growth of electric vehicles, state regulators on Thursday approved Volkswagen's plan to invest nearly $1 billion in California's EV network as penalty for its diesel-emission cheating scandal... San Jose and San Francisco are two of six cities slated for expanded community charging stations. A Volkswagen subsidiary, Electrify America, also will target low-income communities for at least 35 percent of the projects... The first phase calls for $120 million to build 400 charging stations with between 2,000 and 3,000 chargers. About $75 million will be used to develop a high-speed, highway charging network, mostly consisting of 150 kilowatt fast-chargers. The other $45 million will build community charging stations in six metro areas: San Jose, San Francisco, Sacramento, Fresno, Los Angeles and San Diego. Another $44 million will build a "Green City" in Sacramento. It will provide access to zero-emission vehicles to low-income residents, through ride-sharing and other programs. As part of the 10-year comprehensive plan, Electrify America will build a nationwide network of fast-charging stations with universal technology.
That nationwide network is expected to cost another $2 billion.
That nationwide network is expected to cost another $2 billion.
Charging stations and connectors.
I want one standard for charging, and one type of connector, so I can drive up to any charging station without worrying about it being the wrong kind.
It's almost as bad as if Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, Toyota and Honda had special stations that only worked with their cars.
They're actually pretty (relatively) cheap now-a-days.
https://electrek.co/2017/07/26...
http://www.carsdirect.com/deal...
Low-income area means people who can only afford a used Corolla, not a new $35k car. Those subsidies are going bye-bye long before the lower classes are going to be able to afford electric cars (and of course, a tax credit means nothing if your net income tax each year is $0.)
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Yes, that's true.
Their not doing it to make amends. The EV market is growing, they're just laying the groundwork for their future business.
"Don't charge us, we promise to charge ourselves!"
Ezekiel 23:20
But a second hand EV? When that battery goes, you're looking at a replacement costing over $10.0000.
I am not sure how much money that is but I can't make it come close to the cost of a new battery.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
(and of course, a tax credit means nothing if your net income tax each year is $0.)
That depends on how the credit is implemented. If it's an actual tax credit then you get a rebate for the amount of the credit, anyway. If it's just a tax discount then it isn't. The word "credit" is often used erroneously when it comes to taxes.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
We already offer a 10 year plan for parking tickets without any binding promises:
You come to jail and do some work in our factory unit every week-end for ten years. If you miss a week-en or if you are late, you do your full time.
The Chief Justice,
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
Or you buy a Hyundai. Since 2012 their EVs have come with a transferrable lifetime battery warranty and they have a 6/60k bumper to bumper and 10/100k powertrain warranty. Anyone who buys any EV right now which is not a Hyundai is doing themselves and everyone else a disservice, because the standard should be a lifetime battery warranty.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I had a VW GTI Jetta that I just turned in just 3 weeks ago. The process was way to simple. My original goal was to just trade it in for a new GTI but VW abandoned the diesal in the states.
So I got a Hyundi Ioniq Hybrid instead. VW is WAY behind on there interior electronics. Even looking at the newer non diesel Jetta had no options in the way of LCD controls. The first time I tried Android Auto, I wondered why the hell everyone doesn't just do this instead of getting some proprietary menu. As a hybrid I have been getting about same mileage as I was from my GTI (about 44mpg per tank) so I am happy with that.
I wanted the Model 3, but no way that's is happening in the next year till manufacturing catches up with the pre-orders and knowing Tesla, a bunch of early small recalls initially too. It just shows that some 3rd tier automaker and build a decent hybrid with an interesting interior. I really hope this is a wake up call for VW because all they seem to have is the bettle.
It's too late for everybody who isn't named "Tesla". Tesla's got over 100,000 charging stations installed already. Tesla's chargers are going to be the de facto standard at this point.
Charging stations will offer the most powerful and advanced charging technology ever deployed. 350 kW charging has the capability to add about 20 miles of range per minute to a vehicle, allowing up to300 miles of fuel to be added in only 15-20 minutes for some next generation vehicles
Also not vendor locked, the chargers will not be proprietary.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
10k
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
EV batteries last the lifetime of the car anyway. By the time the battery is worn out, the car will have fallen apart around it.
Taxi companies have Leafs with over 200k miles and >80% remaining. Some Tesla owners are over 400k with the same.
If you can get a home charger and the range is okay, used EV, especially a Leaf, is a great cheap car. Maintenance is low, fuel costs are low, and the buy price is ridiculously low.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm not inclined to take them at their word after what they did.
"Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life."
http://batteryuniversity.com/l...
The linked page includes a chart showing the relationship between depth of discharge and number of charge cycles. If I were to guess I imagine electric car drivers are charging daily/nightly when the car is parked at home and just leaving it on the charger when it is in the garage, even though they might have over 50% capacity remaining. Similar to smartphone users who are in the habit of plugging the phone in to charge when they are in the car or sleeping.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
California isnt the rest of the country.
You have badly congested roadways because you have bad policies.
"His name was James Damore."
Most, if not all EVs, won't let you discharge the battery below safe levels. For example, the original Leaf had a 24KWh battery, but you could only actually use about 22KWh of energy from it at most. Then the car would shut down and prevent you doing any damage. Naturally the remaining battery % and range displays were calibrated to account for that.
Older Leafs have a special 80% charge mode that stops charging at, you guessed it, 80%. It was called "long life mode". The newer ones don't have it, Nissan realized that it was pointless. In fact, those taxi firms I mentioned have been doing multiple rapid charges every day, followed by a 100% charge over night.
I actually miss the 80% charge option, simply because when you charge to 100% the regen doesn't work for the first few kilometres. I like having the regen on high as you can pretty much drive with just the accelerator, rarely needing to use the actual brake. The new Leaf, due in September, takes that to the next level with a "one pedal mode" that will bring the car to a full stop if you come off the gas completely.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Taxi companies have Leafs with over 200k miles and >80% remaining. Some Tesla owners are over 400k with the same.
This depends on the usage history of the battery. One of the things I would worry about as a purchaser is how do you determine the performance of the battery? It's not like a mechanical engine where wear-and-tear is visible to a trained mechanic. Is there are way to determine the "wear" on a battery short of discharging and recharging it - which takes time and adds wear- to measure capacity?
Many cities in the US have congested roadways. One of the more interesting reasons for this would be that one time the auto industry decided to buy up and dismantle light rail around the country. It's almost as if there's an industry which has succeeded in convincing America to construct all its infrastructure around their product, whether or not it's a actually a good idea.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
The second law states that the acceleration of an object is dependent upon two variables - the net force acting upon the object and the mass of the object.
VW Golf weights 1300 kg, an SUV weighs 2500 - 3000 kg. This weight is M in the formula F=a*M. F - is the amount of burnt fossil fuel.
No way around this law. The heavier the car the more fuel it burns, the more pollution it produces. It is not possible to burn fossil fuel without producing CO2. The VW Golf burns less fuel than a SUV. Maybe they did something wrong in a paperwork, but VW Golf is still less polluting than a SUV.
I was thinking the same. How will this be good for someone in an apartment building with 30 tenants or where you have to park your car 5 blocks from the apartment building like NY.
I live in California and frequently complain about the traffic but I recently visited the East coast and drove around NY, NJ, PA for two weeks and I can categorically state that the traffic was much worse than any I have encountered in California. Plus, you have all these toll roads which don't seem to do anything to reduce congestion but do make it more expensive to drive ("free market" capitalist road policy failure).
I think the problem of "bad policies" is national. We are dependent on automobiles. Suburban sprawl is a symptom. Better policies might encourage mass transport and intelligently designed cities with higher density housing.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
You're thinking of Renault. Nissan also does it as an option on the Leaf.
It may lower the sticker price on a new car, but it's a really bad idea. First of all, battery degradation has shown not to be an issue. Pretty much the batteries tend to have a useful life the same as the car itself. And they are unlikely to have a complete failure and need replacing.
But rather than making selling a car easier, it makes it very much more difficult. People who are buying a used car rarely want to get roped in to an obligation to pay a monthly fee to lease the battery.
All in all the battery leasing experiment has been a bad one.
These types of things aren't for the plebs like us. They are for the high up corporate types. You know the ones that make $300k/yr and cant budget in how they're going to afford having a kid.
Ultimately there will be charge points most places that cars are parked. Every stall in a car park. Every parking spot by the side of the road.
But even as it stands right now, there are apartment dwellers that have bought EVs. It just needs more planning. If you're just doing short trips around town, you probably don't need to charge every day, but perhaps twice a week. And rapid chargers can charge batteries in a reasonable amount of time now. 30 mins gives a lot of charge.
Right now you probably need to be an enthusiast of you don't have your own off street parking. But with improving ranges and more chargers each year, and increasing charging speeds, the gap will only get smaller.
Tesla's battery warranty isn't bad.
8 year unlimited milage on the Model S & X.
8 year 100K or 120K on the Model 3.
I bought a used 2015 Leaf with 19k miles for $8,500. Great little car.
Tesla's battery warranty isn't bad.
Compared to Hyundai's, it is garbage. I only tend to drive cars which are at least ten years old, and usually closer to twenty. (My "new" ride is a 1998 A8 Quattro. It's replacing a 1982 300SD.) Assuming we're still allowed to drive cars that old, and drive ourselves, in that time I can buy a Hyundai Ioniq and know that the battery will cost me $0. That means that the resale value of the vehicle will probably be much higher than any other EV anywhere near its class even at ten years. A Model S will be worth more, but a Model 3 will be worth less. And by then I will probably give no fucks about performance and I will be pleased as punch to just have a car that works like an ordinary car, which is pretty much that vehicle's claim to fame.
Most people don't want to own a car that old, but that is ridiculous. Around a third of the average car's energy consumption is in its production. Why not get that down to a sixth? The cars simply aren't built to last that long, because it doesn't make enough money, and we haven't been demanding it. But now that every automaker is basically competent, and practically all vehicles have sporty performance (unless they are the most econo of boxes) they are having to compete on quality because it is actually cheap. It hardly costs any more to make a car which will last twice as long. Chew on that for a while.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I tend to buy cars that are 3-5 years old, and then drive them into the ground. So I know where you are coming from. But I don't expect any warranty.
And with an EV I don't think I'd need one on the battery. Time has shown that they are far more reliable and long lasting than people would think.
But in any case, if you are buying cars that are 1-+ years old, you can't expect the car industry to care less what you want.
Oh, we soooo sowwy, we sold cars all across the US with these flaws. How about we appease the largest voting bloc in the US. Here's a snippet from the strategic plan we proposed to investors, how about we do "this" as punishment in a single state. That note about receiving all sorts of discounts and tax breaks from the government, we will still sue them if they don't give them. That $2/kWh we will charge customers on top of the base energy cost, just ignore that dear lawmaker, we will pay taxes on that (*cough* in Ireland *cough*) - what was that - oh no, we said "we will have to buy some land". Oh you will help with eminent domain, yeah, your voters want you to care about the environment, good boy.
But yeah, we are reawwy, reawwy, sowwy.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
But in any case, if you are buying cars that are 1-+ years old, you can't expect the car industry to care less what you want.
I don't, but I do expect them to care about what customers want, and customers want resale value. It's not their first consideration, but it is a consideration.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There was at least one car maker here (forgot which, I think it was a French one), that offered EVs with leased batteries. You buy the car but rent the battery which gets replaced when needed.
That's the french Renault, for their Zoé line of cars.
It's basically the same electric platform as Nissan (they worked together on this one) but with a Renault Twingo body bolted on it.
(They also has electric bigger sedans and electric mini-vans, but I don't have experience with those).
The older modal had a 22kWh battery that was only available as a rental.
It has an official range of 125km, (in my own experience, between 100 and 150 km depending on for conservative I drive which is far enough in densely populated Europe).
The new model has a 45kWh battery, that you can buy for ~8000 EUR together with the car or you can rent.
Buying a new battery later costs 10'000 EUR (given that Renault plans to built battery factories, you can expect the price to eventually trop down in a few years).
It has an official range of 250km (have no personal experience, the car sharing I'm using only have older 22kWh models).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Relax dude. If you don't want one don't but one. The rest of us that aren't afraid of change can enjoy ourselves.
I traded in my TDI for a Bolt. You get used to 'single pedal mode' pretty quickly and it's actually less tiring than driving normally. Moving your foot back and forth is way more intensive, doubly so in stop and go traffic. You can still smash the normal brake if there's an emergency. I feel like you'll stop sooner due to the fact that it'll already be slowing while you're moving between pedals while a gas car would just be coasting.
How do you drive normally if you can't keep your foot on the pedal? Relying on cruse control constantly seems way more hazardous.
California isnt the rest of the country.
Congested roadways and pollution wasn't invented in California. And they sure as hell don't hold a patent on it, preventing the rest of of the world from abusing it.
You have badly congested roadways because you have bad policies.
If this is merely a policy problem, then that "policy" has been adopted by damn near every other heavily populated country in the world.
Volume is a critical value, as any engineer can attest.
They might not be able to afford a new 35K car. But a used Nissan Leaf (7.5K-15K) might well be in reach, and is worth considering if a limited-range car will suit their needs and they have a place to charge it. Electricity is cheaper than gas, and maintenance costs for the Leaf will be lower so long as the battery is still in good condition.
A lot of us haven't had the opportunity to buy one because they're not 50 state cars; they're only sold in limited areas. The upcoming longer range version of the Ioniq (not the 124 mile version being sold now) will be Hyundai's first 50 state EV.
It depends on whether or not it is a refundable tax credit. Many are not, including the federal EV tax credit. In other words, you only get the full credit if you owe at least that much tax. Non-refundable tax credits are a perverse incentive; they punish people for being TOO POOR. (Major gripe: the federal tax credits for education are also non-refundable.) If you can't take advantage of the credit, you're better off leasing the car (the leasing company gets the credit and reduces your rate accordingly) and buying it out when the lease ends.
You could also just buy a used car; the original owner got the tax credit so the used price is reduced accordingly. That's why a used Nissan Leaf sells for so much less than the sticker price. But if you need a long range EV there aren't any used options currently; a Tesla Model S would be too expensive and the Chevy Bolt is too new for any significant number of used ones to be available. It will be a while before you can buy a used Tesla Model 3, a long-range Hyundai Ioniq, or any other future long-range EV.
Silly Europian inverting commas and dots. In Europian notation, it would have been 10.000,000. Yep! that is correct! This is a correct representation of 10K.
Nice reply although, 10k seems simpler to me indeed ;-)
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.