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Apple is About To Do Something Their Programmers Definitely Don't Want (medium.com)

Last week, The Wall Street Journal had a big feature on Apple Campus, the big new beautiful office the company has spent north of $5 billion on. The profile, in which the reporter interviewed Apple's design chief Jony Ive, also mentioned about an open space where all the programmers would sit and work. Ever since the profile came out, several people have expressed their concerns about the work environment for the developers. American entrepreneur and technologist Anil Dash writes: [...] There have been countless academic studies confirming the same result: Workers in open plan offices are frustrated, distracted and generally unhappy. That's not to say there's no place for open plan in an offices -- there can be great opportunities to collaborate and connect. For teams like marketing or communications or sales, sharing a space might make a lot of sense. But for tasks that require being in a state of flow? The science is settled. The answer is clear. The door is closed on the subject. Or, well, it would be. If workers had a door to close. Now, when it comes to jobs or roles that need to be in a state of flow, programming may be the single best example of a task that benefits from not being interrupted. And Apple has some of the best coders in the world, so it's just common sense that they should be given a great environment. That's why it was particularly jarring to see this side note in the WSJ's glowing article about Apple's new headquarters: "Coders and programmers are concerned their work surroundings will be too noisy and distracting." Usually, companies justify putting programmers into an open office plan for budget reasons. It does cost more to make enough room for every coder to have an office with a door that closes. But given that Apple's already invested $5 billion into this new campus, complete with iPhone-influenced custom-built toilets for the space, it's hard to believe this decision was about penny-pinching. The other possible argument for skipping private offices would be if a company didn't know that's what its workers would prefer.

190 of 315 comments (clear)

  1. Greatly Insane by Thud457 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *pple has long been taken over by managers, marketers and fashion designers. The actual engineers are an afterthought.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:Greatly Insane by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sad but true. You can see it in the XCode UI changes. A decade ago, it was ugly and sometimes you had to go to the command-line, but it had all the necessary features and once you figured them out it was easy to use.
      Now XCode is pretty but it looks like it was designed by a product manager, the UI changes fairly often and the actual meaning of buttons is utterly opaque.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re: Greatly Insane by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It was better before. "Usable" is always better than "beautiful"

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re: Greatly Insane by green1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yet it seems that no company on the planet is willing to put out "usable", they'd all much prefer "beautiful"

      It's extremely frustrating, in so many places you can tell that they probably spent an absolute fortune deciding the exact shade of each colour used, and the exact diameter of each rounded corner, while completely ignoring that the most commonly used task is 32 menus deep, and doesn't maintain it's state between app launches.

      Honestly I'll take something designed by an engineer over a designer or "UI expert" any day. The one made by the engineer will just work, the designer or UI expert will have some squiggly line on an icon that you're only able to interpret if you can read minds, and won't do what you needed in the first place. They'll probably also remove all ability to actually do what you need the item to do in the name of "simplification"

    4. Re: Greatly Insane by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      Yet it seems that no company on the planet is willing to put out "usable", they'd all much prefer "beautiful"

      And the reason is because "beautiful" is immediately apparent while "usable" can usually only be determined by extensive actual use after the product is bought. Thus, "beautiful" outsells "usable".

    5. Re: Greatly Insane by KlomDark · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is a great comic about how bad UX Experts suck:

      http://slapthebaldy.com/comics...

    6. Re:Greatly Insane by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The command-line is a feature.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re: Greatly Insane by Bengie · · Score: 1

      An acquaintance purchased some $130 Underarmor shoes because they look cool . They claim they are very uncomfortable shoes, but that's OK. Meet the typical person. Functionality comes second to beauty.

    8. Re: Greatly Insane by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      I think that is the first comic in my life I've seen that has an obvious word missing. I guess newspapers have editors, and Web comics don't give a fuck.

    9. Re: Greatly Insane by SandWyrm · · Score: 1

      That comic needs an UX designer to increase its readability.

    10. Re: Greatly Insane by harperska · · Score: 1

      That comic is so fugly, it must have been designed by an engineer.

  2. Re:iToilet by omnichad · · Score: 1

    More like "Hey Siri, please wash me and then flush."

  3. This should not be a surprise by DickBreath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's been a long time since Apple was (primarily) about technology. Apple is about fashion. Form over function. Appearance. Show. Illusion.

    Apple has great technology. But unlike in the 80's and 90's, technology comes second (or lower) at the Apple of today. I remember when Apple was a great company. When BYTE magazine wrote that the history of the microcomputer industry was an effort to keep up with Apple, it was true, back when Apple was a truly great company.

    Open plan space for developers to work? No surprise. Quite a difference from the day when Apple would do whatever it took to make developers productive.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    1. Re:This should not be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They invented the smartphone and tablet as we know them today (as opposed the the bullshit we endured in their previous forms). I think Apple will be just fine.

    2. Re: This should not be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ummm that is the BSD license. They didn't write the license; they just used what was given to the public. Anybody could have taken that bsd code and did something wonderful with it. Don't hate on Apple for taking advantage of what was given to them.

    3. Re:This should not be a surprise by Evangelion · · Score: 2

      Well, yes, that's the point of Open Source. (Google did the same thing with Linux and Android).

      However, it's worth noting that in both the cases of iOS and Android, the kernel talking to the hardware is all that it really is. Darwin uses a bit more of the BSD userspace, but it's still only half an OS without the actual OS/X layer ontop of it. The value that the systems bring to the table are from the layers in the middle. No one would use just Darwin, and no one would use an Android device without the touchscreen UI.

    4. Re: This should not be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, they should've used a proper copyleft license then. I adore the BSD license and its community of devs but I'm also under no illusion about how shitty human beings are. The GPL is like a lock on a door; it'll keep out the honest, the lazy, and the stupid, but there's some legal force to hit back against the thieves with, whereas the BSD license is like leaving your door unlocked.

    5. Re: This should not be a surprise by taustin · · Score: 1

      Then they probably shouldn't have signed onto a project that has a license that allows exactly that.

    6. Re: This should not be a surprise by jcr · · Score: 2, Informative

      The BSD appropriation was, and is, morally outrageous.

      Go fuck yourself. Apple has contributed as much as any organization to the maintenance and improvement of the BSD codebase. Just ask Jordan Hubbard. Not to mention giving away LLVM and LLDB, you ungrateful prick.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    7. Re:This should not be a surprise by green1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "invented"? hardly. Both were around before Apple. All Apple did was market them better.

      Apple hasn't been good at technology in decades, but marketing? I don't think there's a better company on the planet at marketing.

    8. Re:This should not be a surprise by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Since you don't have time to read the entire comment before you reply, how about next time you just skip reading altogether before you spout a pile of shit?

    9. Re:This should not be a surprise by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      They hired one of the top BSD developers. They contribute most of their BSD-related changes back under the same license. They never pretended that the BSD underpinnings were theirs. Shit-wads like you have claimed more inventions for Apple than Apple has even filed patents. You are one of the most ass-fucked pieces of shit to ever grace the planet.

    10. Re:This should not be a surprise by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Stallman doesn't give a shit about open source. He's free software or bust.

    11. Re:This should not be a surprise by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      You're a complete fucking idiot if you think all the iPhone brought to the table in 2007 was "better marketing".

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    12. Re:This should not be a surprise by green1 · · Score: 1

      The entire comment claimed Apple invented something they did not, and laughably claimed that the previous incarnations were all inferior.

      The truth of the matter is that Apple did not invent anything, and the previous incarnations were similar to what Apple is credited with inventing, and in many cases superior.

      Apple is a marketing masterpiece, but their technology is quite sub-par.

    13. Re:This should not be a surprise by green1 · · Score: 1

      Then please elaborate on what it DID bring to the table other than marketing.

      It wasn't the first phone of that form factor, and the first version of the phone didn't really have any more features than other phones of the time, in fact several phones already on the market could do simple things that the iPhone could not.

    14. Re: This should not be a surprise by taustin · · Score: 1

      Then how did their stuff end up in BSD? Seems like somebody - high up in the BSD community - must have committed some pretty serious copyright violations.

      Or they did, without understanding what they were agreeing to.

      I know which way I'd bet.

    15. Re:This should not be a surprise by Wraithlyn · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I'm not going to waste my time getting into the weeds with you.

      Because you know what? The onus is on YOU to explain how the iPhone DIDN'T completely transform the smartphone landscape. Because everyone else (without their head entirely up their own ass that is) recognizes that as a simple obvious fact.

      Here's a few articles to get you started. (But don't worry, you're right and the rest of the world is wrong) https://www.google.com/search?...

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    16. Re:This should not be a surprise by lgw · · Score: 1

      "transform the smartphone landscape" means they were good at marketing, not that their product was anything special. They discovered that people would but phones as a new kind of jewelry - really amazing marketing.

      Heck, you probably also think Google is something other than an advertising company.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    17. Re:This should not be a surprise by mrsquid0 · · Score: 1

      No, the onus is on you to explain what was so revolutionary about the original iphone. Almost every feature was already present on other phones and the first iphones did not even have simple features like cut and paste. What was impressive about the original iphone was the way it combined features from other mobiles into a single phone that did not feel clunky.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    18. Re:This should not be a surprise by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      What was impressive about the original iphone was the way it combined features from other mobiles into a single phone that did not feel clunky.

      See, I agree completely with this.

      And that's more than simply marketing. Which is my point.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    19. Re: This should not be a surprise by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Not to mention giving away LLVM and LLDB

      That counts as a plus today? Ugh. OK, I suppose it could have been worse - they could have written it in COBOL.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    20. Re:This should not be a surprise by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      Several IT people have given me a blank stare when I mention BSD under the hood. If IT people don't get it, you can imagine how little the average user knows. Apple hasn't exactly been shouting the fact that half their OS is free. Apple wouldn't want fans to question the value for money they get from Mac OS GUI when they figure out the underlying FreeBSD really is free in every sense.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    21. Re:This should not be a surprise by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Hmm. To be fair to Apple if you gave people the free half of the OS they'd burst into tears and ask why their computer doesn't work.

      Most people don't know Android uses a Linux kernel or that their ATM runs Windows. I don't see many websites telling you the set of Apache Foundation projects they draw together, or which hardware they're deployed on.

      So I guess I'm just not getting your point here.

    22. Re:This should not be a surprise by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      Uh, the entire A-series of SoCs is pretty strong proof that they still do a lot of tech really well. They don't just outperform Qualcomm's chips, they make a mockery of them.

      iOS is a great OS. It may not be your cup of tea, but it's not deficient in any meaningful way.

      It's obnoxious and blind to claim that Apple doesn't do tech. They do great tech, it just happens that they also do the BEST marketing. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    23. Re: This should not be a surprise by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      They changed the landscape for worse, I'll give you that.

    24. Re:This should not be a surprise by SandWyrm · · Score: 1

      Apple has great technology. But unlike in the 80's and 90's, technology comes second (or lower) at the Apple of today.

      You have a very different memory of Apple in the 80's and 90's than I do. Apple was pretty, but barely usable garbage in the 80's. In the 90's they went full marketing-tard, lost their way completely, and we got garbage like the Performa that couldn't go an hour without crashing. You HAD to buy one of the licensed Power Computing machines in order to get any real work done. In 1998, I was proud that I'd configured my work Mac so that it "only" crashed 2-3 times a day.

      OSX, circa 2003-2004, was what finally made me take notice of Apple again. Impressed with the stability and usability of the Macs I used at work, I bought my first MacBook in 2007.

      Apple has definitely become more about fashion than functionality lately, forcing me to add a dedicated PC to my Mac collection for 3D app performance. But they are finally showing some signs of recognizing that they're losing a good number of the developers that they depend on due to crap overpriced hardware.

    25. Re:This should not be a surprise by green1 · · Score: 1

      They weren't the first multitouch phone, nor were they the first phone without a physical keyboard.

      Try again.

    26. Re:This should not be a surprise by green1 · · Score: 1

      They do the best marketing, and mediocre tech.

      Any fancy chip is only as good as the package you put it in, and when that package can't do half the tasks the competition can, you can't call it superior.

  4. 3rd choice by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But given that Apple's already invested $5 billion into this new campus, complete with iPhone-influenced custom-built toilets for the space, it's hard to believe this decision was about penny-pinching. The other possible argument for skipping private offices would be if a company didn't know that's what its workers would prefer.

    Or the 3rd choice: They don't really care what their employees prefer.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:3rd choice by swillden · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But given that Apple's already invested $5 billion into this new campus, complete with iPhone-influenced custom-built toilets for the space, it's hard to believe this decision was about penny-pinching. The other possible argument for skipping private offices would be if a company didn't know that's what its workers would prefer.

      Or the 3rd choice: They don't really care what their employees prefer.

      Actually, it's a fourth: They believe that open plan offices promote creative interaction while closed offices promote focused productivity, and they choose to favor the former over the latter. There's also an element of flexibility. The theory is that it's easier for people in open-plan offices to use noise-cancelling headphones to focus when they need to be productive than it is for employees to walk out of their office and into a colleague's office when they need to collaborate.

      I'm not saying that money never enters into it. But clearly for the likes of tech companies sitting on enormous cash reserves, money isn't the primary consideration. Competitiveness is. Staying ahead of the rapidly-changing technology world is. And they believe that open plan office spaces, with lots of additional space for ad-hoc collaboration in meeting rooms, lounge areas, volleyball courts, etc., is the best way to do that.

      I'm not willing to say that they're unequivocally right, but they're certainly not completely wrong, either.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:3rd choice by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Or the 3rd choice: They don't really care what their employees prefer.

      Well Apple has long thought they know better than their customers, it would not surprise me if the hubris has reached the point where they think they know better than their workers. I don't work at Apple, but we're moving to an open floor plan. I don't care because I've worked on one before and seem to have grown mental ear muffs but I know most are against it. They're perfectly aware however we are just resisting change and don't understand how improved collaboration will make us better. And yes, some say the sky is falling when I know it's not. Perhaps it will even get better because I get a whiff of their next terrible plan before it's set out into action, that's one kind of collaboration I guess.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:3rd choice by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, it's a fourth: They believe that open plan offices promote creative interaction while closed offices promote focused productivity, and they choose to favor the former over the latter. There's also an element of flexibility. The theory is that it's easier for people in open-plan offices to use noise-cancelling headphones to focus when they need to be productive than it is for employees to walk out of their office and into a colleague's office when they need to collaborate.

      Whereas it is undeniably true that an open office results in more dialogue, I don't think that is the only way to encourage it. Nothing beats face-to-face and easy access to encourage collaboration, but the problem is, not many people are going to want to work like that.

      I know I quit a job primarily for the reason of switching to open-office. (I had other issues with the place, but the moment they switched to open-office I updated my resume and started job hunting)

      Open office is simply a much less pleasant environment in which to work.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:3rd choice by eth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or the 3rd choice: They don't really care what their employees prefer.

      Definitely this.

      One of my primary red flags for bailing out of a place (or avoiding working there in the first place) is when they start opening up/making less private work areas, accompanied by some huggy-feely BS about why it's a good idea.

      It's a sure sign that management either doesn't know or doesn't care what people want/need - either way, time to think about leaving.

    5. Re:3rd choice by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      My floor just went to an open plan a few months ago. Half of our team rooms-the ones that actually were big enough for 5-6 people to work in together-have already been turned into official offices (with desks and internet hook ups installed) while a good 1/3 of the desks on our floor have no one assigned to them, forcing us to either jam people into small rooms or working feet from other people at their desks. The only people that were all for the change to an open floor plan were the ones that got to keep their offices.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re:3rd choice by tsqr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The theory is that it's easier for people in open-plan offices to use noise-cancelling headphones to focus when they need to be productive than it is for employees to walk out of their office and into a colleague's office when they need to collaborate.

      As if the need to collaborate with colleagues is something new. The part about "they believe that open plan office spaces, with lots of additional space for ad-hoc collaboration in meeting rooms, lounge areas, volleyball courts, etc." sort of contradicts the claim that open-plan offices reduce the need to walk away from your desk to collaborate. Does anyone in an open-plan setting really collaborate by yelling to a colleague on the other side of the room (who can't hear you anyway, 'cause he's got his noise-cancelling headphones on to avoid being distracted)? Or do you send an IM saying, "Hey man, take of your headphones; I need to yell at you"?

    7. Re:3rd choice by green1 · · Score: 1

      When the CEO starts working in the open floor plan instead of his penthouse office, then I'll believe it really is the better option. But as long as the top levels of the organization keep their private offices it's pretty clear that the change is out of malice, not ignorance.

    8. Re:3rd choice by swillden · · Score: 1

      Does anyone in an open-plan setting really collaborate by yelling to a colleague on the other side of the room

      No, the idea is to co-locate teams. So it's a matter of turning your chair around, not yelling across the room.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:3rd choice by Roadstar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The theory is that it's easier for people in open-plan offices to use noise-cancelling headphones to focus when they need to be productive than it is for employees to walk out of their office and into a colleague's office when they need to collaborate.

      Noise-cancelling headphones won't help with the visual distraction of people moving in your field of vision. Unfortunately I'm speaking from experience, at least I can't help registering extra movement in my field of vision even if I'm trying to concentrate on what's going on my displays. Sure, there are some occasions where I've picked up a valuable piece of information from conversations going on around me in an open office, but most of the time they are just an annoying distraction. As far as I'm concerned, open-plan office isn't the right place for developers.

    10. Re:3rd choice by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      It also doesn't help with boorish coworkers who get in your face who, when you had a door you could close, would often go away because as clueless as they are about social interactions they would see a closed door as 'privacy needed.'

    11. Re:3rd choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Open office is simply a much less pleasant environment in which to work.

      That's why everyone has moved to libre office plans now.

    12. Re:3rd choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually it's a fifth reason: Managers feel the open office place lets them intervene more directly and more directly influence their employees work.
      For example, if you advise a junior engineer to "go slow to go fast" your manager may actually overhear this in an open office and be able to take immediate remedial action, to wit, rushing over to correct you and tell he junior engineer they need to keep going faster forever. (Not a hypothetical instance.)

    13. Re:3rd choice by markana · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm stuck in an open plan office, and there's plenty of dialog all right. Almost none of it about actual *work*. We have lots of Sales/Marketing/Communications types right next to the small developer group. And boy, do they talk. And talk. Loudly. And about every aspect of their personal lives that we really don't care about. The managers of those group work in a different state, and couldn't care less.

      Noise cancelling headphones work great on repetitive sounds, like engine noise on a bus. But human voices (especially some of these people) cut right through. Most of the development colab happens on email/im/etc anyways, so we're almost always more productive working from home.

    14. Re:3rd choice by kbrannen · · Score: 1

      I worked at a dot-com company back around 2000 that had an open floor plan and everyone from the VP's down had the same type of desk. It was one of those with a pole in the middle and you got 1/3 or 120deg of it. Only the CEO and CFO and VP of HR had an office since they had a lot of private conversations.

      I didn't like the open plan at all, very noisy especially with the concrete floors and other hard surfaces, but I appreciate the higher-ups being willing to be like the rest of us.

    15. Re:3rd choice by green1 · · Score: 2

      I worked at a small ISP at one point, the owner was... I'll politely call him "cheap". Everything we had was the cheapest item he could find, but what helped a lot was when you looked in his office, he was using the same particle board desk and same cheap plastic rolling chair that the rest of us had.
      It goes a long way in garnering good will if the CEO is doing the same things the rank and file are expected to do.

      As for your example. The CEO, CFO, and VP of HR had offices because they had private conversations. Does that mean nobody else had a need to have private conversations? Nobody else had a need for silence and to have the ability to take calls? I doubt it. It sounds like yet another example of the CEO and CFO thinking they were above everyone else and that their decisions shouldn't have to affect them.

    16. Re:3rd choice by swillden · · Score: 2

      It also doesn't help with boorish coworkers who get in your face who, when you had a door you could close, would often go away because as clueless as they are about social interactions they would see a closed door as 'privacy needed.'

      You just have to establish some clear social norms. Where I work (though it's not relevant for me because I'm remote), you never speak to anyone who is at their desk working, without first instant messaging them to ask if they're interruptible. And "no" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Those who don't even want to be interrupted by an IM request log out of IM or mute their IM notifications (you can see if someone is muted).

      This leads to lots of seemingly-odd things like sending an IM to the guy sitting right next to you, even though it would actually be less effort to tap him on the shoulder. It also appears to undermine the "free interaction" goal of an open plan office, but it really doesn't. If you can see that the person isn't focused on something, you can skip the IM, and in any case the IM overhead is minimal. I tend to just send "irq", and colleagues respond with "ack" or " ak", or even just "a" or "n".

      --
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    17. Re:3rd choice by swillden · · Score: 1

      Actually it's a fifth reason: Managers feel the open office place lets them intervene more directly and more directly influence their employees work.

      Not where I work, and probably not at Apple, either.

      --
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    18. Re:3rd choice by russotto · · Score: 1

      They believe that open plan offices promote creative interaction while closed offices promote focused productivity, and they choose to favor the former over the latter.

      The only people who believe that have spent the last few years of their working lives in a private office which could hold 40 employees under open-plan standards, with a private executive washroom too. That's what you need to be so out of touch as to believe that.

    19. Re:3rd choice by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      When the CEO starts working in the open floor plan instead of his penthouse office, then I'll believe it really is the better option.

      I actually DON'T think it's the better option, but.....

      https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/1...

    20. Re:3rd choice by n329619 · · Score: 1

      Use VR headset.

      I think I just broke the reason to have open office at all.

    21. Re:3rd choice by swillden · · Score: 1

      They believe that open plan offices promote creative interaction while closed offices promote focused productivity, and they choose to favor the former over the latter.

      The only people who believe that have spent the last few years of their working lives in a private office which could hold 40 employees under open-plan standards, with a private executive washroom too. That's what you need to be so out of touch as to believe that.

      Actually, execs where I work also have desks in the open area... if they have desks at all. Many don't, but just roam from meeting room to meeting room with phone and laptop, working from couches in common areas between meetings.

      --
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    22. Re:3rd choice by swillden · · Score: 1

      Programming isn't creative interaction.

      You are clearly not a programmer. Not one that does anything non-trivial, at least.

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    23. Re:3rd choice by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's not exactly that. This is Apple we're talking about here: with them, they tell you what to like. What you want isn't important, because they know better than you. Millions of Apple fans agree, and will happily adjust their opinion every time a new Apple product comes out. Remember when Apple said people don't want large-screen phones? Apple customers didn't; they were happy with the smaller iPhone screens. But then later, Apple came out with a large-screen iPhone to match the Samsungs, and suddenly all the Apple customers liked the new large-screen iPhone.

      Whatever Apple tells people to like, they do. And that's how their office planning goes too. They simply assume the employees will like whatever they bequeath on them. And they probably will; if they didn't have this mindset, they wouldn't be working there.

    24. Re:3rd choice by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I've worked in open plan offices my entire career. They're normal in the UK. We don't understand the US pre-occupation with closing off all social interaction.

      There's another cultural difference: We're not self-centred arseholes that have to talk about themselves all day. Teach your Sales/Marketing/Communications colleagues not to be inconsiderate cunts and you'll find the working environment improves immensely.

    25. Re:3rd choice by chihowa · · Score: 2

      Open office is simply a much less pleasant environment in which to work.

      Of course it is, as demonstrated by the people who made these decisions giving themselves offices with doors. Executives and upper management, whose almost entire job function is socialization and "collaboration" don't deprive themselves of offices with doors.

      I think it's all about management not having a very solid understanding of what the workers do and needing to literally see them in their seats furiously tapping at their keyboards to feel like they're "managing".

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    26. Re:3rd choice by lgw · · Score: 2

      It doesn't mater how close you are to one another: you can't talk without going somewhere else or you'll disturb everyone else. With offices, you and a colleague can discuss anything at one of your desks, with a whiteboard, and without disturbing others.

      Plus, you're not being treated like fucking cattle. Maybe that doesn't matter to enough people, but it should.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    27. Re:3rd choice by houghi · · Score: 1

      I am all for a semi-open plan. That is not cubicles, but also not one big hall with everybody, including the CxO in one big hall.

      Have it open per team. Also see that 'loud' teams like helpdesk or sales are separated from 'silent' teams like accounting.

      I have seen plenty of offices where they where able to do that without closing every team in a separate office with a locked door. Each team will have different needs and should be addressed differently.

      Having one system for all is like saying that you can have a phone in any color, as long as it is white. Oh.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    28. Re:3rd choice by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      I wonder where Ricky Gervais got his ideas for the original The Office. You know, the one in Slough.

    29. Re:3rd choice by Cederic · · Score: 1

      The one in which his character has his own office?

      Good question.

    30. Re:3rd choice by green1 · · Score: 1

      That's 2 people sharing an office, that's a long way from a full open floor plan.

    31. Re:3rd choice by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      You're right.. I still think it's an unusual/interesting situation/story.

    32. Re:3rd choice by green1 · · Score: 1

      The fact that a CEO would be so offended by having to share an office, while expecting that it should be normal for everyone else speaks volumes.

    33. Re:3rd choice by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      I agree with you, but some corporate cultures - are very disrespectful. The ones that believe "we move fast and break things!" seem to be the worst of all.

  5. Brain Dead by byteherder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know why companies like Apple hamstring their developers with these open office design abominations. Study after study shows that developers are most productive when they have an office with a door they can close. The pointy headed bosses argument that they can wear headphones or take their laptop and move to a conference room doesn't work in reality.

    For the salary they pay software engineers, it would seem that companies would not still be practicing outdated, brain-dead policies that are costing their company millions. Or in Apple's case billions.

    just my 2 cent worth.

    1. Re:Brain Dead by aicrules · · Score: 1

      What matters is getting your developers or other employees buy-in. I've seen open office plans work great. There are a brand of developers now, agile/extreme etc...that prefer the open office plan. It works great if everyone is into the idea of high collaboration methodologies like agile and they choose it. Nothing hurts moral as much as environmental changes like this being forced on a group. Even if they would love it, even if they would work so much better in that environment...when it's forced on them without their consent, then it's doomed.

    2. Re:Brain Dead by byteherder · · Score: 1

      I have worked in open plan environments and ones where I had my own office. I was way more productive in my own office.

      If someone feels they are more productive in the open plan, I don't begrudge them that. I say let the developers choose open plan or office, individually.

      I bet >90% go for the office.

    3. Re:Brain Dead by byteherder · · Score: 2

      It is hard to get buy-in to open office plans if one of the requirements is that I need a space with no distractions. That just doesn't work with the open plan. Now if you are all in offices and want to collaborate with a fellow developer, you both can go into one office or book a conference room to share ideas. Best of both worlds.

      Some methodologies are more about collaborate like pair programming. For that case, two developers can share an office. There is nothing about agile methodology that forces collaboration. I am working on an agile project right now and almost everyone is working independently, communicating when needed.

    4. Re:Brain Dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm willing to bet PoopJuggler's nearby coworkers hate the open-plan.

    5. Re:Brain Dead by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I worked as a C developer in a shop that converted to both open floor plan and Agile development. They had previously had been using something like a loose waterfall-method combined with offices and fairly private cubicles. Here's what happened.
      • Productivity fell drastically. Less code was checked in and less of it was high quality code (more comments and BS/fluff).
      • Morale dropped quickly. We all complained about how much we hated the noise, disruptions, and distractions.
      • All the best developers (including myself) quit. They specifically cited both Agile and the open floor plan, as did I, on the way out.
      • We all got better jobs making more money working for people who didn't want to force terrible ideas down our throats.

      Interestingly, we all choose to let our next employers know that open floor plan was a dealbreaker. We didn't have to worry about Agile as much. Folks were already starting to to get disillusioned and looking for the next magic-bullet development method by then. In my case the employer specifically had to provision an office to meet my demands. Funny thing is, a C programmer can be a bit choosy vis-a-vis, say a Javascript & PHP coder. Maybe that's because good embedded programmers are about 100x more rare. Anyhow, cue the violins for the Agile cheerleaders to come break down in tears now that someone has said they didn't like it.

    6. Re: Brain Dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Open plan can be cozy, I give you that. Sit around and chat with nice colleagues for hours - instead of working.

      Managers come and go, todays managers simply don't know what productivity you could get out of coders in offices. To them, the low productivity is the normal.

      So enjoy it! Slack off, chat (about tech-sounding stuff) get paid. Secure jobs for lots of new coders. . .

      If you cant beat them, join them!

    7. Re:Brain Dead by byteherder · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that Apple doesn't make mistakes?

      Didn't they fire Steve Jobs?

    8. Re:Brain Dead by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      Folks were already starting to to get disillusioned and looking for the next magic-bullet development method by then.

      Thank god for that. It astonishes me the extent to which we play around with process here, rather than just getting on with the job.

    9. Re:Brain Dead by Dog-Cow · · Score: 3, Funny

      If I juggled shit for a living, I'd want to stay away from walls, too. Not sure what that has to do with software development, though.

    10. Re:Brain Dead by jareth-0205 · · Score: 2

      Every company I've worked at has been open-plan...

      So then.... you have no way of comparing because you have never had a private space?

    11. Re:Brain Dead by Shalhav · · Score: 1

      I have read "study after study shows ..." in several posts here. Could you supply a good link?

    12. Re:Brain Dead by byteherder · · Score: 1
  6. Apple doesn't care about software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Isn't it pretty obvious, to anyone who has watched Apple over the last 20 years? They went from being fairly-well respected (and a lot of angry people will say I am criminally understating that, almost a back-handed complement) in terms of their software design quality, to worse-than-Microsoft. Apple's software is harder to use than it used to be, is ugly and embarrassing, chooses to serve other parties' interests over the interests of the user, and pretty much has nothing going for it.

    They don't care about software. And it shows: Apple's software is junk.

    They don't care if their programmers are less productive, or unhappy or whatever, because their programmers are about as an important part of their business as the janitors who work at the same office.

    All they care about is that people keep buying their hardware in spite of its laughable, declining software.

    Given the premise that Apple's users tolerate the platform in spite of the software being near dead-last-place in the overall computer scene, they are making the correct decision to get rid of the kind of employees who would rebel against this and try to fix things. Drive them out. Get in the unpaid interns. It's not so much a matter of being able to afford turnover, as realizing that they want a lot of turnover. Because, it doesn't matter, so why not save as much money as you can?

  7. So even Apple can do utterly stupid things by gweihir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who would have thought. The next thing that happens is that the best ones leave for greener pastures where they _can_ close the door.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  8. For most places... by Junta · · Score: 2

    It's a simple matter of the real estate cost of square footage, and in the case of office space, the cost of the building. The 'everyone sits around a table' and even 'you don't need enough seats for everyone, and just assume x% of work from home' is all about that. Of course the problem is people *believing* the warm sounding rationalizing and starting to adopt it for things like this, where *clearly* cost efficiency was not at the top of the list.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:For most places... by byteherder · · Score: 1

      It seemed like a good idea at the beginning. More worker crammed in less square footage. Save on office space rent. That's ok when you are paying all your worked minimum wage and productivity is not significantly impacted.

      The reality is that you lose 30% productivity from a large group of highly paid employees. All so you save a couple of bucks on your monthly rent.

    2. Re:For most places... by networkBoy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am currently in an office that *just* went open plan...
      Support folks like it because they can communicate easily. Devs... not so much, and now there are additional issues.
      Case in point, I put on my headphones so I can exclude other sounds, unfortunately my office mates can hear my music and it annoys them, so I can't actually listen to my music while I code. Instant 30-70% hit on productivity, since now I hear their conversations and my brain is dragged away from its focus.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:For most places... by Junta · · Score: 1

      Of course, the business leaders view people claiming they are less productive as whiners trying to get nice space back, and they should suck it up.

      Which is why we are where we are, abstract bs about collaboration and open spaces resonate because it also is cheaper.

      Conversely, complaints about productivity that would require more money be spent are dismissed as whiny bs because it's convenient that way.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    4. Re:For most places... by apoc.famine · · Score: 2

      You've got the wrong headphones. You'll save your hearing and your sanity if you get the right ones.
       
      I have a fairly cheap $20 pair of earbuds with a thick rubber insert, and they do wonders for dampening the world around me. As a side-effect, I don't need my music up very loud, and you can't hear it from 2' away when I have them in. If I can accomplish that with a $20 pair of earbuds, you should be able to do the same with a more expensive (and likely more comfortable) set of headphones.
       
      If you can hear them and they can hear your music, your headphones suck. Make everyone's life better by finding the right pair.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    5. Re:For most places... by byteherder · · Score: 2

      I have had the exact same experience. People who need to communicate a lot like open plans. They want to talk to their coworker around them.

      People that have to think, as opposed to talk, want quiet spaces, free from distractions. Headphones can block out some of the noise but not all of it. If you turn it up too loud it distracts your neighbors. Also, there is the visual distractions. Nobody has told me how to get rid of those.

    6. Re:For most places... by byteherder · · Score: 1

      I see this all the time from business 'leaders'. It is always easier to dismiss the complain. Claim it is from a bunch of whiners than to actually fix the problem.

      Call the complainant a whiner. Don't fix the problem. Sweep it under the rug. Where have we seen that before. Oh yeah, didn't Uber do that to the sexual harassment complaint. And Well Fargo, didn't they do that to the people complaining about the fake accounts problem.

    7. Re:For most places... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      Nah man, real programmers are going to sit around the campfire that will be lit ablaze right smack in the middle of the ring; arms in lock singing Kumbaya.

      Don't you love the smell of burning plastic? Ohh the toxic fumes! *whiffff*

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    8. Re:For most places... by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      People who need to communicate a lot like open plans.

      Developers, despite the weird obsession with solitude expressed in this thread, need to communicate more, not less.

    9. Re:For most places... by byteherder · · Score: 1

      Developers, despite the weird obsession with solitude expressed in this thread, need to communicate more, not less.

      I am all for developers communicating more. That doesn't mean you need an open office plan. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There is email, IM, Skype, phone, WebEx. and a host of other ways to communicate, as well as, face to face. And with an office you can have a private conversation and not bother anyone around you.

      Think about those people that work from home. They have to communicate. No different than if you have an office.

    10. Re:For most places... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Distraction is not communication. I've worked in team rooms, cubicles and open plan. There's no benefit at all to open plan, besides costs savings on the property.

    11. Re:For most places... by Junta · · Score: 1

      The ideal for me was when I worked in a team that did have 'cubes', but it was in a room dedicated to a department, so limited to about 18 people at most. So folks could communicate freely, and 99% of the communication overheard was relevant to your job.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    12. Re:For most places... by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      20% on the slider...
      They're "noise cancelling" knockoffs that the company bought to try and mollify us as to the noise levels...

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  9. I'll take your open office, by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

    And raise you a privacy screen filter and noise canceling headphones.

    No way i'm letting all of these noisy do nothings around me see my occasional facebook posting while my code is compiling!

    1. Re:I'll take your open office, by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      It sounds like a perfect place for Apple to purchase my new product, the iCone-of-Silence.

    2. Re:I'll take your open office, by networkBoy · · Score: 2

      Headphones don't work.
      Even good ones let enough sound in that you can hear conversations, if you turn up the volume enough sound leaks out that your co-workers will complain about your music selections.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:I'll take your open office, by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      For a while I tried earplugs + shooters ear muffs. It didn't work: at some point you block off your ears enough and bone convection brings the sound to your ears through your skull. Also when you open your mouth things get louder.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:I'll take your open office, by Arkham · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work in an open office in Atlanta. It's so damn loud that some days I just send my developers home to work.

      I bought some $300+ Bose QuietComfort 35 headphones to cancel the noise -- they help, but it's not enough.

      I can use the foam earplugs you use for working around heavy machinery, but honestly, at that point how much degradation of productivity have you taken on when that's your own recourse?

      I truly don't understand the open floorpan. It's only result is unhappy employees.

      --
      - Vincit qui patitur.
    5. Re:I'll take your open office, by lsllll · · Score: 2

      I work in an open office in Atlanta. It's so damn loud that some days I just send my developers home to work.

      You are in a position where you can send developers home, but you don't have an office with a door?

      --
      Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    6. Re:I'll take your open office, by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      My view is that it's not my responsibility to overcome obstacles put in place by my employer. If there's a natural degradation due to an open plan, that's what it is.

    7. Re:I'll take your open office, by antdude · · Score: 1

      Is it louder than clicky keyboards? My former co(lleague/worker)s hated my loud typings in the cubicles. Imagine no cubicle walls. ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    8. Re:I'll take your open office, by Arkham · · Score: 2

      You are in a position where you can send developers home, but you don't have an office with a door?

      Nobody in our office has a door (even the VP in charge of the whole site). We have the entire development staff in one large room (300+ developers and QE). I measured the noise level today at 67dB. It's really absurd.

      --
      - Vincit qui patitur.
  10. Google does it, therefore we must by ErichTheRed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll refrain from the obvious jokes about the workers' pods only having rounded corners...

    I really think the companies that get this trend right and actually want to keep employees happy will eventually settle on a mix of public and private spaces. Those of us who are older and like our private spaces have to remember that this is the age where "social media manager" is a real, full-time, highly compensated position. There are some people who thrive on collaborative spaces, constant noise and distraction, and love to work at cafeteria tables with zero personal space. There are also some (me included) who can't get any serious work done unless I'm in a private location with the door shut and "do not disturb" turned on in my various messaging accounts.

    Unfortunately, the more extroverted among us tend to have the ear of HR more than heads-down workers like me. In addition, most corporate HR departments just copy what Google is doing verbatim regardless of fit. Google's where all the kids work, and companies love to have as many young exploitable employees as possible, so it makes sense...sort of. Unitl it meets an organization with a high average age of employee, that lives and dies by conference calls and work that requires concentration.

    1. Re:Google does it, therefore we must by Junta · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Of course, it's not a simple matter of age.

      In our company, we have one building that is 'a workspace designed from the ground up for the millenial generation'. One of the new college grads in our group in one of the old fuddy-duddy buildings (at least per the real estate people) is glad they don't have to work in that. In fact when we do talk to them, they hate it.

      Most folks like having a space to call their own. They may have different levels of privacy desired, but a random seat at a random table makes them feel like their position in the group is tenuous and they don't have a place to call 'home'. Even if it were assigned, clean desk policies that prevail and limited square footage to even try means that space is too anonymous to feel like a 'home' base.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:Google does it, therefore we must by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are some people who thrive on collaborative spaces, constant noise and distraction, and love to work at cafeteria tables with zero personal space.

      I've yet to meet any of those people.

      To clarify: I've met people who love that sort of work style, and *claim* to be productive... but they don't seem to actually be getting much real work done. They're good at deflecting, and subtly throwing others under the bus, when asked why A and B and C aren't done or are done badly.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Google does it, therefore we must by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Interesting

      'a workspace designed from the ground up for the millenial generation'

      Agreed it's not all about age, but I generally haven't seen older people outside of sales and marketing who love working in one of these Millenial workspaces. I have seen that younger workers are coming into the workforce being used to more distractions, so while they may not be getting a lot of work done, they prefer the "collaborative preschool" environment with the bright colors and the beanbag chairs. It's different from a more traditional work-style, where older people are used to going to an office, doing their work and leaving. Younger people (at least in IT/development) seem to want to continue their college years and work in a dorm-style atmosphere. Without as many commitments at home they find it appealing to basically live at work, which is a huge bonus for employers.

    4. Re:Google does it, therefore we must by green1 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's more that the 'workspace designed from the ground up for the millenial generation' is garbage, and NOBODY wants to work there?

    5. Re:Google does it, therefore we must by bungo · · Score: 2

      'a workspace designed from the ground up for the millenial generation'

      Agreed it's not all about age

      I think it is about age, and not generational. As you said, Millenials like it because they are younger and has less commitments.

      When I worked for a large tech company, about a dozen miles south of the San Francisco airport, I happily spent most of my time there. It was 25 years ago, I was young, no wife/kids. All of my friends and everyone I knew worked at the same place. If I went out for a drink, it was with the same people. I went on holidays with the same people. The office wasn't open plan, but cubicles. Everyone walked around and talked to each other all of the time. We were even encouraged to do it. Were we less productive than we could have been? Probably.

      That was my life at the time, and I was happy and had a great time. Now, I'm married, kids, lots of commitments. I try to do my work and go home, but when that doesn't work out, I'm not hanging around at the office, but I continue to work from my home office - but usually after I've got the kids to bed. I could never go back to how I worked 25 years ago.

      Once the millenials get kids and settle down, the next generation will be doing the same thing, and the millennial will be telling them to get off their lawn.

      --
      "The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
  11. Is this reductio ad absurdum? by rbrander · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's consider the opposite strategy, then, if programmer is the 'single best example' of needing flow.

    Should Apple sacrifice, I dunno, half the open area to work-pods you slide into like a fighter pilot? Basically a ring of three 4K monitors wrapped around you, the backs of the monitors 6" from the walls? I'm thinking four feet by six or seven. No windows, obviously. Sound insulation.

    Is there no minimum to the amount of "distraction", that is, anything but what's on your monitors - that should be removed for optimum results?

    If so, you've got the only argument they'll listen to - that you will take up even less of that precious office space. Open plans were never about anything but reducing that square-feet per person number.

    That, and one other thing: 10x10 private offices were often places where people had some privacy in which to goof off. Watch YouTube in an open plan, and people notice. This is just not a real issue in a well-run place where the supervisor knows what the hell all her subordinates are doing and has done the work herself so that she has an idea how far along everybody should move every day. But when the super is too dumb to measure outputs, they will measure inputs.

    1. Re:Is this reductio ad absurdum? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Today all you need is a network connection to know what your employees are or aren't doing. You don't need to look at the screen.

      For the life of me I don't understand why most engineering spaces don't have private offices surrounding an open area for collaboration or whatever. If you need to save money on your workers square footage requirements you are doing something wrong and you certainly aren't Apple who could afford a McMansion for every coder and engineer on the payroll.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Is this reductio ad absurdum? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      10x10 private offices were often places where people had some privacy in which to take micro breaks while their brain churned on an issue in the background.

      There FTFY

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:Is this reductio ad absurdum? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      I know a few companies going with 7x6' private offices and a 6x2' sit/stand desk. They are tight, but you can get very good noise control. Only really supports a max of 2x27" screens though.

    4. Re:Is this reductio ad absurdum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Open plans were never about anything but reducing that square-feet per person number.

      Which is totally fine...save money on office space and give me more. My perfect office is the one I have at home. Just cut out all the cube space altogether, create a few more conference rooms and collaboration spaces, good wifi coverage, then spend the rest of the money you would have on office space instead on salaries. I do think it is sometimes good to have everyone in the office... two days a week for meeting days or periodically.

    5. Re:Is this reductio ad absurdum? by rbrander · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself, Mr. Productivity. I was definitely just goofing off.

  12. Because managers don't generally get it .... by King_TJ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When one of our corporate offices moved to a new location and got a ground-up remodeling as part of the deal, there were great opportunities to make a more functional space for everyone. Instead, the top level management for that location took charge of everything, designing a floor-plan the way THEY envisioned it. The "rank and file" employees barely got a chance to see it before it was approved and work begun on it.

    The group of us in I.T. got a sneak peak at it, just before work started on it, and we collectively said, "Woah! Hold up! BAD ideas here!" The whole space was an open floor plan, except for a row of 6 "phone rooms" where you could shut the door to talk on a phone, placed on a small table, with a few chairs around it. That, and one short hall of offices with doors.

    To be fair, it is a marketing oriented company, BUT a lot of the people working in this space are designers, or at least have jobs that require a lot of conference calls, video-conferences, and negotiating with clients over the phone. In other words, lots of need for quiet in the surrounding space so you can sound professional while communicating with people.

    Our opinions held no weight though, and everything proceeded despite our complaints. So now? The office tends to be largely empty, because everyone decided they can get work done more effectively by just working from home whenever possible. The upper management folks who pushed for it? Well, they're rarely in the office anyway because they're constantly traveling. I guess they think it's fine when they finally come back for a few days though, since it's so quiet with so few people wanting to come in now?

  13. Not necessarilty all open office by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    While some studies say that open office workers are less happy, there's nothing to say that all Apple programmers will work in open offices. Indeed some of their teams might have closed off sections like those working on the top secret projects that Apple doesn't want anyone to know about.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    1. Re:Not necessarilty all open office by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      You mean like the iPhone which spent 4 years in development? The iPod which spent more than a year in development? x86 Macs which were being developed years before they originally launched? You don't know what Apple has in development. Some of the projects will never become a product. That doesn't mean they aren't working on them.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  14. form over function by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 3, Interesting

    reminds me a lot of Detroit in the 50s and 60s. The cars looked nice, but most are absolute crap under the hood.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  15. first hand experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My last company moved to open office floor plan. No cubicles but devider less desks where everyone could see each other. Plus you were 2 feet way from your neighbor. It was absolutely the most distracting work environment I have ever worked at. Needless to say all the top talent resigned and left the company and they were forced to sell. Just trying to save a few bucks on rent caused the company to financially collapse.

  16. Re:Offices with doors? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I do even though I'm not a programmer or manager. I got a great view of the roofline. :/

    https://twitter.com/cdreimer/status/858056822648750080

  17. Penny pinching not on Apple's side by guruevi · · Score: 1

    The penny pinching most likely doesn't happen on Apple's side but on the architect/project manager side that promoted it in the first place. The brass doesn't care about details like that, the middle managers see the project and will put "saved $50M" on their resume and by the time anyone picks up on it, the project is already halfway done and changing it would cost more than double.

    You can't imagine how penny-pinching general contractors and architects are, not because the clients wants it, but because margins on cheap/open office spaces are so much higher than expensive office spaces. You can still charge the client the same amount of money for things like "design" but not have to worry about all the fire sprinklers on the plan, you just have to roll out some carpet instead of cutting around edges and either way gets charged per square foot. The only people not happy about it would be painters.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  18. All of the options suck. by Graydyn+Young · · Score: 1

    Offices are unrealistically expensive, open spaces are distracting, and cubicles are depressing. I don't even know what I want anymore.

    1. Re:All of the options suck. by mbkennel · · Score: 2

      Offices, with closable doors, surrounding nice communal areas. Steve Jobs designed the Pixar building that way to encourage the right amount of interaction and production.

    2. Re:All of the options suck. by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1

      That's how Level(3) does it. Everyone gets a small office. I worked there for a while and while I have mixed feelings about the place, the office layout was brilliant. Some managers would ask that folks put their workstation near the door (screen facing out) and leave the door open when not coding or having a call/meeting. Others just rolled with the Reagan method (trust but verify).

    3. Re:All of the options suck. by avandesande · · Score: 1

      If you are lucky they will just give up and close the office. Most of my time at the office interacting with others was spent on the phone with people who were offsite.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    4. Re:All of the options suck. by green1 · · Score: 1

      Managers who insist on being able to see your screen at all times are poor managers. It's the same as the ones that look more at how many hours you worked than what work you did.

      A decent manager will look at the quantity and quality of your work, and not care which way your screen faces, how many hours a day you work, or if you even came in to the office at all.

      The fact that there are so few decent managers around is also why there are so few companies that allow employees to work in their most productive environments (generally a private space, and often one that isn't at the office)

  19. Re:Offices with doors? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    This is Apple's campus we're talking about here. They should consider themselves lucky to have windows.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  20. The very idea by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    The very idea that a company spends $5 BILLION on its headquarters should speak volumes about conspicuous consumption, ostentation, and Apple. (And the fact that we're celebrating it not finding it abhorrent should be a comment on our society, generally.)

    In 2017 dollars, the Pentagon (for years the worlds largest office building, not sure if it is today; more than 2x the size of Apple's building in square feet houses 26000 workers vs Apples 12000 - so it's not like Apple's staff are getting huge offices) would have cost around $1.4 billion.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:The very idea by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It seems like when big-name companies build new office space the people at the top of the organization value HUGE open spaces for their dramatic value. I've walked into wholly owned office buildings where the main entry way is like walking into a cathedral, a giant mostly empty space meant to make a big statement to visitors (possibly even the same psychological impact cathedrals were meant to have to peasants).

      At Apple the building is so large that they have to have the "main cathedral" for the really big impact, and then mini-cathedrals for various major departments and to provide a secondary impact for people having meetings with specific departments or who didn't use the main entrance.

      The Pentagon comparison is interesting -- I got a tour inside last year, and there's like a ton of space used for what amounts to a freaking mall *and* a mall-sized food court, so that they fit even more people is surprising. Combine this with the huge amount of security, where lots of areas are extra-secured and hence totally walled off, which I'm sure results in a large amount of space inefficiency and Apple's space seems REALLY ostentatious.

  21. it's a fad by roc97007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Open office plans seem to be the fad for this decade. (See: "Management by magazine article".) The fact that it demonstrably only works for certain types of environments, and doesn't work at all in an environment where the workers are expected to dive deep and perform long complicated tasks, hasn't made an impression on upper management yet.

    As our group had more than one physical location, conference calls were common. Very quickly after we switched to an open office plan, came an edict that employees would be required to book conference rooms for calls. The noise was, naturally, disrupting the people trying to write or debug software. (It wasn't just that the cubicle walls were gone, it was also that we were all sitting elbow-to-elbow in a 1950's-era bullpen arrangement. Wow, how progressive...)

    Shortly after that, it was discovered that we did not have enough conference rooms to meet demand. This was never solved, and it became common to see employees in the cafeteria or visitor's lounge trying to manage a conference on their cell phones, with laptop balanced on their knees. This raised the issue of discussing company intellectual property in a semi-public place, but I don't think that was ever solved either.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  22. Both "closed" and "open" offices can be bad. by CraigCruden · · Score: 1

    I started in a more open office (not a buzz word back then - just room with cheap desks) and eventually was promoted and in the process got an office. Then eventually moved to a new building and lost the office had a cubical, etc. Worked at another company where we had cubicles -- but often teams would move into a conference room around a table. So I have had basically experience with all.

    Open Office

    There are times where you cannot seem to get your mind in gear -- and a little goofing off from time to time can help break things up. "Goofing off" being basically working on pet projects that you might not get full management buy-in -- not playing poker online. If you have good management that is able to value you based on real productivity and not "hours" logged in a time tracking machine -- and not necessarily value of that work - working in an open office where anyone walking by at "the wrong time" can be stressful since that is all you will be measured (those few times that you are not head down entering code into an editor).

    If however, the open office is about a team working together around a common area - where you have some level of privacy just by the fact that you don't have people walking by your screen judging you on the minutia of every minute.... it can be a positive work environment.

    The Apple offices though look completely open with no team dividers -- which may not be the best setup if there is not enough room to give a certain amount of limited privacy.

    Closed Office / Offices

    I found that working from an office can be just as bad since you are not likely to work together as a team -- since the effort of getting up and setting up an impromptu meeting for help when you are working on items - is also a very poor situation which limits mentoring and learning.

    The best of both worlds would be having an open office for teams with frosted glass dividers with sound dampening where you can work around an area with some limited privacy -- but encourages people to work as a team together. The caveat is that you really have to get rid of people faster if they are a burden in that environment where they are disruptive to productivity. While also having individual offices that are available from time to time where you really just need to put your head down and you don't want any interruptions what-so-ever.

    1. Re:Both "closed" and "open" offices can be bad. by Whatsisname · · Score: 1

      I found that working from an office can be just as bad since you are not likely to work together as a team -- since the effort of getting up and setting up an impromptu meeting for help when you are working on items - is also a very poor situation which limits mentoring and learning.

      That is complete horseshit. I work in a place where everyone has their own office, and we have no problems working together as a team.

  23. Re:Balance. by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You need a manager/marketer/fashion designer at the top, because engineers wouldn't know UI if their asinine choices bit them in the ass.

    That's not true. You need Marketers/Fashion designers to guide project requirements and approval the results NOT to decide working conditions for professions conducting work they know almost nothing about.

  24. A / B Test by sl149q · · Score: 1

    It's not like Apple is moving every single employee into their new campus. They will have their old campus and many additional office buildings for a long time.

    They can, over time, effectively do A/B testing to find out what teams work best in the new campus, and what teams work best elsewhere with different styles of offices.

    They could end up with very little engineering types in the new campus, and having the marketing teams there working well in an open environment.

    Apple has sufficient resources and cash that moving teams around is just an annoyance. If it needs to be done they won't need to figure out how to pay for it, just how and when to schedule the move.

  25. My first Phone Booth by chewie2010 · · Score: 1

    I remember contracting at a start-up. The place was too busy to get a few hours of straight work done. Then a manager dude said "go work in the quiet space" or whatever it was called. It was a little phone booth with glass on all three sides. I think I left because the place was crazy and the founders didn't respect the fact that engineers need hours or days of quiet time.

  26. Hopefully more upgradeble than their phones by Green+Salad · · Score: 1

    Hopefully their fashionable office is more flexible and able to accommodate their changing needs than their phones. I miss phones with protective bezels, distinctive-feeling controls at the edges, changeable memory cards, upgradable batteries and standardized audio jacks. Fair or not, I generally assign blame to Apple for for the loss of these features and laughably-thin form factors requiring after-market protection shock-protection on even the majority most non-Apple phones. If their office is absolutely locked into a certain "visionary and innovative plan" well...Apple will just have to deal with it, just like they've made us deal with their silly fashion dictates.

  27. Re:Offices with doors? by nate_in_ME · · Score: 1

    We're in the middle of the build process for a new building, and I will have an office with a door (and a window!). I'm our entire IT department, so I have to share my office with the server rack, but we didn't have any other good place to put it...

  28. Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    ... the century has had an open concept plan... workers and QA routinely working in easy eyeshot of eachother, and only the project managers or the owners had their own private offices.

    The number of times that another employee has distracted me in that entire time is zero.

    If you ask me, I think that the devs are probably opposed to an open work environment is because it gives them less opportunity to waste company time using their computer for non-work-related activities.

    1. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The number of times that another employee has distracted me in that entire time is zero.

      Lucky you, but I've been in places where people were tossing beanbags and nerf balls around, and it gets old, really fast.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by citylivin · · Score: 1

      "If you ask me, I think that the devs are probably opposed to an open work environment is because it gives them less opportunity to waste company time using their computer for non-work-related activities."

      Like posting to slashdot? :P

      Well i work in an office with a door and only one other person in it, and it really depends on your co workers. If one of us is having a meeting, its pretty distracting to the other office mate, and things like the other person joining the meeting they werent invited to does occur. I will often chime in with my 2 cents for instance.

      I'm just surprised you never experienced distraction from working alongside others. I get along well with my officemate but there are plenty of people in this building who i would have a very hard time sharing an office with. People who talk on the phone all day, people who play music, people who chat constantly about their insipid lives.. etc. And I couldn't imagine having like 5+ people all working in the same space. The odds are quite high at least one of those people would piss me off.

      Perhaps you are just immune to distraction better than most. And "wasting" time is a misnomer. I could spend all day banging my head against the wall to try and solve a problem, or i could relax a bit and a solution will come to me when im thinking of something else. I am not alone in operating this way I think.

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    3. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      The number of times that another employee has distracted me in that entire time is zero.

      Seventeen years, and you have never had another employee distract you from your work?

      While that may be true for you, if it is, you should probably realize that your experience is way, way outside the norm. People with other experiences are likely to feel very different about the subject.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    4. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Well, all of the places I have worked have always had a separate conference room away from the open work-area for any meetings, so that people don't get disturbed by them.

      People who talk on the phone all day, people who play music, people who chat constantly about their insipid lives.. etc.

      None of that behavior would be tolerated at any place I've worked for the past 20 years. Anyone who was incapable of conducting themselves professionally would likely be told to leave and come back when they've calmed down, and if it was a regular occurence with a person, they would be fired.

    5. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by green1 · · Score: 1

      If you weren't distracted by anyone else, in all that time in an open floor plan, then I suggest that you were likely the biggest distraction.
      As for wasting time. Which is more important, the number of hours you spend sitting at your desk appearing to work? Or the quality and quantity of the work you did? You seem to suggest that the former is important, and the later is not. I'd suggest that it's the other way around.
      If I have one worker who comes in before everyone else every day, stays after everyone else is gone, and is never seen slacking off at work, and another employee who comes in at 10, leaves at 3, takes a 2 hour lunch and posts on slashdot all day. I'll still pick the second of those 2 employees over the first if he has better quality work, and more of it.

      Management by time clock is lazy, and in addition to not getting the best work out of your employees, helps contribute to their misery.

    6. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by gumpish · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're also never bother by the sounds of someone eating, clicking a pen, or the visual of someone idly bouncing their leg on the ball of their foot.

      If you ask me

      Nobody asked you.

    7. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Actually, you're right.... I never thought about it before, but yes. As someone else suggested, maybe I'm outside the normal curve for what sort of things can distract me.

      I can attest to the fact that I can very easily be distracted from concentration by screaming children, however, or when a large truck goes by the building where I work and seems to causes the whole floor to shake, so my concentration is not infallible.

    8. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      If someone tosses a beanbag, just toss an exercise stability ball back.

    9. Re:Every dev job I've had since the turn of .... by jcr · · Score: 1

      That might be satisfying for a moment, but it doesn't really help to get my code written.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  29. No it doesn't cost more by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

    "It does cost more to make enough room for every coder to have an office with a door that closes."

    It does not cost more, and that's the point. Any up front savings on the building will be lost in diminished productivity. It doesn't make sense to pay people as much as programmers are paid without doing everything possible to make them as efficient as possible.

  30. Re:Jony Ive is a no talent hack by omnichad · · Score: 1

    White on white with no way to tell what is a button and what isn't.

    That's a failure at understanding what minimalism is, not a failure of minimalism.

  31. Apple Park isn't their only office space. by jcr · · Score: 1

    They're keeping Infinite Loop and all the rest of the space they've already got in Cupertino. They have a lot of individual offices, and coders aren't even the majority of their staff.

    I can't write code in an open-plan office, because headphones are not an adequate substitute for office walls. If I ever went back to Apple, I'd just make it clear that I'd need a private office, or I'd be writing all of my code at home.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  32. Climax design by jet_silver · · Score: 1

    There's a section in John Gall's "Systemantics" that discusses what he calls "Climax Design": the biggest, the awesome-est, and that's where the big donut fails IMO. The place is over-designed and meant to do exactly what someone envisaged, but what if that's not what it needs to do? After all, the real thinking bit of Bell Labs - to take one example - was a hodgepodge of shacks that the occupants felt entirely free to modify any way they damned well pleased. It's the diametric opposite of the big donut: so exactlingly built that pushing the first tack into the wall will feel like a violation of some kind.

    1. Re:Climax design by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Who is John Gall?

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
  33. Re:Ask the coders what they want by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Didn't you hear? Their whole building is wireless. They haven't figured out how to make the lights work yet, though.

  34. Re:Jony Ive is a no talent hack by green1 · · Score: 2

    Minimalism has been redefined recently to mean the fewer controls the better.
    It's completely lost the context that fewer is only better if you don't lose the ability to access the needed functions.

  35. Re:Offices with doors? by green1 · · Score: 1

    My office used to have 4 of them, it also had 6 windows... of course it also had 4 wheels and an engine. That's the only job I ever had where I had a company supplied office with a door.

    Other than that, my second job after college I had a desk in an open area with the servers and 4 offices off of it, but at least it was only me in that area, and then my next job was open floor plan until I got promoted to a cubicle that I shared with 2 other people (at the same time) and now I have no assigned desk at all, but I work from home 80% of the time (the other 20% I either work in a conference room with 2-6 other people, or in an open floor plan office.

    I can tell you that I've never been more productive than when I had that mobile role, or when I work at home. The shared office spaces involve a lot more socializing, and a lot less working (even if all I want to do is work, some of the others don't seem to want to)

  36. Re:Nonsense- it's about 'interruptions', not doors by green1 · · Score: 1

    The library model falls apart completely the first time one of these programmers has to talk to the person who requested the work. They're on a conference call, and nobody else in the office can work.
    The more people in the office, the more often this happens, until at a certain number of people it's a constant situation.

    Sure, you can slack off in a private office, but you can equally slack off in an open floor plan. If that's your concern about your employees, you need to monitor their output to see if they're doing the amount of work you asked them to.

  37. Re:Think of it as an advantage -- by green1 · · Score: 1

    There are 2 big fads right now in management:
    - open concept offices
    - forcing everyone back in to the office and not allowing work from home
    Combine the 2 and you get miserable employees who are unproductive.

    This is really due to lazy management. It's hard to actually do your job and look at the quality and quantity of work done by your employees, it's much easier to just make sure they're physically in the office the right number of hours and that their computer monitor appears to show something work related on it. Of course that also leads to miserable employees who are unproductive, but productivity and happiness were pretty much doomed when the manager started caring more about the hours worked than the end result anyway.

  38. Re:Yes but... by green1 · · Score: 1

    No, it's all wireless now. Make sure your computer is charged up before you come in to the office in the morning!

  39. Offices are useless by iamacat · · Score: 1

    Either work in an open floor plan where you can shoot quick questions and crack jokes with your neighbors. Or work from home and be fully focused and comfortable. Alternate on different days of week if you need a balance and use noise cancelling headphones for added focus at work. In office, you are not interracting with your coworkers and you are never as comfortable with furnature, lighting, views, food or termostat settings as in your own house. It's a waste of money in the age of high definition videoconferencing and collaborative editing software.

  40. frustrated, distracted, and unhappy by Stele · · Score: 1

    Now they'll know what it's like to be a third-party Apple developer.

  41. They don't know what they want. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    They're treating their programmers like their end users - they don't know what they want. You have to show it to them.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  42. Re:Jony Ive is a no talent hack by green1 · · Score: 1

    Einstein was a genius. The people doing "minimalist" design today are not. Every single product I've ever seen that has had any mention of "minimalism" has had valuable features removed and functionality compromised.

    That's not to say that I haven't seen good examples of minimalist design, just that those I've seen have never bragged about having it, instead they just focused on making something simple and intuitive instead of focusing on removing things to make it more "minimal".

  43. extroverts ftl by pwagle · · Score: 1

    .. taken over by extroverts

  44. "big new beautiful office" by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    big new beautiful office

    Ahem. Bloated nerd jail hubcap, more like it. Competes (perhaps unfavorably) with the world's ugliest yacht.

    (No I'm not joking. Trust me, that scow was actually built to Steve Jobs' specifications. Obviously you need to sail it right, because the first breaking wave that hits one of those windows is going right through it as if it wasn't there.)

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  45. If you lose the walls, you lose the whiteboards by radarskiy · · Score: 1

    The lack of whiteboards was a problem I ran into in my experience with a pure open-plan workspace. With our cubicles we were constantly adding more whiteboards to the walls whenever we found them. We were even lining the aisles between the cubicles. When they took away our cubicles we had vastly less wall space to hand whiteboards.

  46. Re: The ability to change the ui by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Which the vast majority of users will use to hang themselves right after they shoot themselves in the foot.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  47. I'm not going to wear headphones or plugs all day by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    every work day.

    Screw that. Uncomfortable, hot, dirty, ineffective. Not happening.

    Do not work on software for a company that puts you in an open plan office. Period.
    It shows profound misunderstanding by the powers that be of the nature of the work you do,
    and your basic requirements for being able to do it effectively and with high quality.

    That lack of understanding telegraphs that you will be ineffectively managed on many other aspects of your work too.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  48. Re:Developers need to communicate more by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    There are these amazing new things called meeting rooms...

    With big white boards all around.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  49. It's the way of the things in the valley by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    NVIDIA's new building is only about 6 miles away from Apple's and it is essentially one giant room with 11.5 acres of cubical. I exaggerate, obviously the full 500,000 sqft of floor space is not cubicles, my rough calculations show it more like 2.75 acres of cubes (6' x 8' * 2500 people).

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  50. Re:I'm not going to wear headphones or plugs all d by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

    Philosophically, yes. But practically, it comes down to the money, benefits, and working environment.
     
    I'm in the second worst working environment I've ever worked in right now. I'm in cubeland, in an isle of 6 which is in a row of about 14, which is in a column of about 8 or so. Under fluorescent lights, away from windows. That's about 700 people in this giant rat-maze of a floor. The bosses get cubes with walls to the ceiling, and that's about the best you can do around here.
     
    Why do I stay?
     
    Decent pay, the building is walking distance to everything I want in a little city, and the benefits are better than any I've ever had. On top of that, I've got great freedom in my job, I don't punch a clock, and if I want to piss off and walk 5 min to one of the dozen pubs around here, I can.
     
    Just because you're in a shitty working environment doesn't mean it's not worth being there, or that you could do better. I don't think I could. I could get paid lots more, but I'd have to pull 60-80 hrs per week. I'd have to work somewhere far more remote than I work now. A decent set of headphones is a very reasonable trade-off for all the other benefits of my job. FFS, I blew off work at 3pm today to go sit in the shade on the patio at a pub and drink a few beers, because it was 80F, sunny and breezy, and everything was pretty dead at work. I'll gladly wear headphones half the year for that sort of benefit!

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  51. Re:office planners by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    I mostly agree, but not for the ones working at Apple. I think they should get a reward. I'm hoping they'll make the work environment there so noisy and chaotic that nothing they produce works right.

    Next, I'm hoping Microsoft does the same thing.

  52. No programmers in the Spaceship by ghoul · · Score: 2

    The Spaceship is reserved for corporate, designers and marketeers. So duh it is open plan. Most programmers at Apple just book the conference rooms for coding sessions. Its absolutely impossible to get a conference room at short notice on any of the campuses.

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  53. Re:Stop with the clickbait title by Wootery · · Score: 2

    Yep, clickbait horseshit. Deliberately thin on information.

    A good title should be as informative as possible given the space constraint.

  54. There's possibility by izzo+nizzo · · Score: 1

    Presumably, this building was designed before it became commonly known that open offices create these issues. As you may recall, they were intensely praised until recently and they deserve some of the credit for the flattening in hierarchy that our industry has experienced (e.g. your discussions with your boss are more public).

    Nonetheless these floor plans could present a major challenge. Yet, it's important to remember that Apple's culture is unique, and the way they manage their projects, their timelines, their personnel and their stress are clearly distinct from essentially every other technology group. For instance, look at the presentations made during WWDC. The speaking and presentation style displayed is far better than almost any other conference. And, these are not marketing or communications officers - they are the engineers and managers who create and design the technology presented. Their poise, integrity, and capability make it easy to guess that they are not as beleaguered by indecisiveness, unrealistic deadlines, and petty swagger as many other technology workforces. It's very plausible that the social and emotional skills of this workforce are strong enough that they may reap most of the benefits of open floor plans while transcending most of the pitfalls.

    Furthermore, this phase could be a step in a timeline that will only last as long as its needed. Although many Slashdotters are too rageblind to know, a discerning observer of Apple's history will see many 'inhale, exhale' phases in their products, interfaces, policies, marketing, and strategy. It's well-known that Tim Cook chose to relax much of the internal culture of secrecy that prevented different divisions from communicating. The technology teams have benefitted from cross-pollination of both concepts and tools in the first phase of this change. Now they will undergo another social transformation, and continue to ramp up the utility of shared discoveries. As modern technologists know, when complex questions can be swiftly addressed to hundreds of working developers, they can sometimes be answered or even upgraded just as swiftly. Leveraging this in a team like Apple's will surely be a source of explosive power as these casual relationships develop.

    As the dust settles and the needs of each team and each engineer become apparent, there are lots of possible avenues for revision of the openness. For instance, engineers could augment their reality to manage visual or auditory distractions. They can build pods or walls if it's really necessary. But recall that they still have an existing headquarters with just as much capacity as the new one, which I believe is about 5 minutes away (maybe 15). Segmenting a team can impact productivity in some cases, but in others, a physical separation that leads to meetings only at deliberate intervals is a major boon to workflow. And, they can obviously use video chat as liberally as they see fit. People who have major difficulty adjusting to the new building can be housed in one of the tens of thousands of other offices that Apple can provide.

    I think if we wait and see how this building works out, there will be lessons for some of us. It's good that everyone wants to stick up for the engineers and help them produce their best work. To suggest that Apple's leadership has other priorities is lazy.

  55. Re:I'm not going to wear headphones or plugs all d by Junta · · Score: 1

    True, my workplace is nicer than you describe, but the one job I held where I had a real office strangely enough happened to be my lowest paying job in the industry. I'm now making tenfold more than that, though now I'm in a shared cube (at least not at a random table).

    I have not seen a company paying enough to have strong talent *also* provide real office space anymore.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  56. Its easy to understand why by foghelmut · · Score: 1

    "The Panopticon is a type of institutional building designed by the English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham in the late 18th century. The concept of the design is to allow all (pan-) inmates of an institution to be observed (-opticon) by a single watchman without the inmates being able to tell whether or not they are being watched. Although it is physically impossible for the single watchman to observe all cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched means that all inmates must act as though they are watched at all times, effectively controlling their own behaviour constantly. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  57. Real talk: We need bidets in North America by p0larity · · Score: 1

    I used them abroad. I feel cleaner after using them. I bought a $40 attachment for my toilet so I have one at home.

    But having to use the toilets at work always feels kind-of gross.

    Women don't seem to get why guys like bidets so much. Well, consider the considerably larger amount of hair they have on their butts.

    Water works 10x better than wiping 20 times. No more degos!

  58. Silly comic. Straw man. by p0larity · · Score: 1

    That's not a UX designer if they're acting like that.

    Seems people on Slashdot don't actually know what UX is, or they've worked with designers who got shoehorned into the job with no training and no clue.

    1. Re:Silly comic. Straw man. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Seems people on Slashdot don't actually know what UX is, or they've worked with designers who got shoehorned into the job with no training and no clue.

      Or we've just been trying to use the abominations that are the majority of user interfaces these days.

  59. Re:You won't believe how slashdot is annoying user by Wootery · · Score: 1

    Who cares if it works? It's infuriating, insulting, and doesn't belong on Slashdot.

  60. Re:Balance. by nanoflower · · Score: 1

    Is it not possible to have a product that is usable, well designed and still something that people believe is what all the cool people have. Sure seems that would be the winning combination that makes everyone happy and should be what Apple is striving for. If Apple is removing desired functionality shouldn't they be hearing complaints from their customers? I'm sure not going to let some company remove functionality that I'm using in an update without complaining. Are Apple users so caught up in the RDF that they won't do that?

  61. Re:Jony Ive is a no talent hack by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Yup. I have been learned through experience over the past couple of years that if a UI is described as "minimalist", "sleek", or "modern", there's a 99% chance that it's going to suck hard.