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Bitcoin Splits in Two Amid Feud (cnet.com)
Bitcoin is dividing in two. Disagreements about how to operate the cryptocurrency have led to a new strand called Bitcoin Cash, which is breaking off from the bitcoin system. From a report: Bitcoin Cash launches Tuesday in what is known as a "hard fork" from bitcoin, a virtual currency based on peer-to-peer transactions without any central authority or bank behind it. The new offshoot is a response to the increasing popularity of bitcoin, which is struggling to deal with massive numbers of transactions with its underpinning technology. The main bitcoin currency is adopting a system called Segwit2x that moves transactions out of the current blockchain, while bitcoin Cash will use bigger blocks within the blockchain. Bitcoin holders are set to receive the same amount of bitcoin cash as they have in bitcoin if the exchanges and wallets they use support the new coin, another report added. Exchanges including Kraken and ViaBTC have said they'll support both, while others like Coinbase and Poloniex have said they won't, citing uncertainty that bitcoin cash will have lasting market value.
I fixed the headline...this is clearly a shell game of some sort. Someone is going to get very rich and a lot of little folks are about to get screwed.
I just love seeing crypto currency fail and hearing the wails and moans of nerds losing money.
I must be missing something. I assume everyone involved is working toward strengthening the currency as a whole and not trying to undermine it's success. With that goal in mind it would seem coming to terms over it's future would make a lot more sense than segmenting it's user base.
Just another opportunity for someone to game the system and screw people out of their Bitcoin... I expect a headline within the next couple of weeks/months about someone losing all of the hard earned Bitcoin because of it...
sorry bout ur internet drugbux friendos
BTC "wins" because some Chinese mining pools are making money hand over fist from transaction fees. Obviously they don't want that to end. It also "wins" because many people holding BTC don't want the supply to effectively double with a hard fork, as that devalues their "investment".
The ultimate problem with Bitcoin is that it involves multiple parties who are strongly motivated to operate at cross-purposes for their own personal gain. Bitcoin Cash won't be the last hard fork.
cant handle being just that. How do you expect to have Bitcoin widely accepted as a real currency if it starts to fall apart as soon as it gets widely accepted?! Bitcoin seems to be its own worst enemy... NEXT!
This is asking for even more regulation than just over IPO where cryptocurrency scams steal millions, this behavior demands regulation of every aspect to prevent millions more from simply disappearing. There is a reason issuing currency is restricted to large government bodies, those that face some shred of accountability.
/s
Thought about investing in Bitcoin a few times. My instincts told me something was "off" a few times. Some people are going to be left holding the bag and a small few are going to walk away rich.
How does a thing like this even work? What I'm reading is that everyone with bitcoin will now have an equal amount of bitcoin cash, and from now on the value of each will be uncoupled. Does this mean in the short run after the split the value of bitcoin is halved (at least), until the market decides how this will play out? What if I don't have a wallet that supports both at the outset, am I locked out from getting my bitcoin cash issue?
I'm starting ANOTHER new ripUoffCurrency.
K Coin now available! Just send you CASH to PO BOX 7184
That's how this works, right? :)
but not much technical discussion... sigh. Is increasing block size much of a solution?
" Bitcoin holders are set to receive the same amount of bitcoin cash as they have in bitcoin IF the exchanges and wallets they use support the new coin" big if!
I predict this will fail.
how is this still a thing. 1849. (Re)Learn from history.
Still have HOURS-long confirmation times, tiny block size, etc.. makes it useless for F2F transactions, merchant payments, etc..
Not really, And BCC is not a viable solution to BTC's problems.
There's more to making robust network software than constructing a shiny UI or simply hacking operations parameters to reach a higher size per TX; the actual protocol implementation has to be robust to scale with those features and not blow up.
And broke it in two.
You can't do anything with it. It's just bits on a disk, but too bad the fanbois don't grok that. They think they have something. They're just lying to themselves. The guy in 2010 that used 10,000 Bitcoins to buy two pizzas knows that for a fact now. 10,000 just for a couple of pizzas! You can as an individual mine for 250 years and still have 50% chance now of getting a coin, but you need 9,999 more of them just to get a couple of pizzas. What a joke.
Current NYC maxes out at 7 transactions per second. Visa, MasterCard, etc do thousands of transactions per second.
One of these are the future and it won't be the one where you max out transactions at a mere 7.
If Amazon accept bitcoin it would only ship .5% of what other payment processing. Simply because of the number of transactions that take place daily.
Can you imagine waiting in line at the grocery store for 20 minutes to get a credit card approved? Bitcoin is measured in hours
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
The whole premise of bitcoin requires you to forget that lesson.
A reasonable solution is to offer derivatives........a 'sub-bitcoin' offering that is backed by bitcoin, but doesn't require a full calculation on each transaction.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I presume only one fork will really survive. After a period of double-spend shenanigans, I expect the larger block size fork will be the sole survivor. Since it's effectively evicting all of the Chinese miners, some 40% of the mining power of the network, the block difficulty for the new, larger block chain should plummet, making mining far more attractive to individuals again. In addition, the new chain should have radically cheaper transaction fees, which will tend to push transactions to use it. Where the people go, so goeth the cryptocurrency. I doubt even the Chinese population that uses Bitcoin will stick with the original fork; they hate transaction fees as much as anyone else, if not more.
Bitcoin might actually be useful for microtransactions again. Sorry, bitcoin Cash...
a 'sub-bitcoin' offering that is backed by bitcoin, but doesn't require a full calculation on each transaction.
Like put all the bitcoin somewhere safe like Fort Knox and issue paper substitutes?
early on - I once requested a free bitcoin - it never arrived, later mtgox got hacked and the bitcion community never really recovered from that imho.
Then I had another go at bitcoin some years ago and somehow came to the conclusion that while i had store of gigabytes of useless crap for which i needed to buy a gpu for or a btc 'rig'/server to do stuff.
Having no btc one of our last microsoft windows pc succumbed to ransomware, i was glad i did not pay - it got us ms free- yes we had backups of data. Inconvenience is cheaper.
At that point i quit Even today i see http bots looking for walet.dat files
I still do not own a $600+ gpu.
This dungeons and dragons money (mtgox) is a bit useless. It wont buy beer
Essentially, yeah, except they will be in some bitcoin wallet where it's possible to verify that no money has left, and the derivatives will be merely another blockchain backed by bitcoin.
It's inevitable that all the strategies used for traditional money will eventually become part of e-coin.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
WHOOOOOOSSSSHHH!
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
That doesn't make Bitcoin inferior. It just means you can't use it for tons of tine, pointless transactions with instant confirmation.
If you DO want to use it for that, pay a transaction fee.
People are only forking because they want to have their cake and eat it too. They're even resorting to scaremongering and FUD with the whole spiel about the Chinese. Hint: If the fork takes off, the Chinese farms will switch over and the situation will repeat itself.
If you're talking about the 1949 gold rush, that's not the same as bitcoin. You can't make dental fillings out of bitcoin. As an element on the periodic table, there is only one substance that's gold. There is no gold 2.0. Gold is 100% fungible. Gold cannot be made illegal. Gold doesn't need any other technology. You can hand someone your gold at the same speed as you could 4,000 years ago, regardless of how many gold transactions took place in the interim. And you can wear your own wealth.
They've been in the news lately: http://www.reuters.com/investi...
Gold was made illegal in the US for decades.
Current NYC maxes out at 7 transactions per second. Visa, MasterCard, etc do thousands of transactions per second.
Just when they were on the point of selling out the first field of black tulips!
right after the great depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act
OMG, some woman just walked by my office window who is committing at least a dozen felonies, then.
What do people who have BTC in their wallet (and have not done anything with it in a year) do when it splits? Many will do nothing, will they lose thier BTC or BitcoinCash? will they only have BTC? will they later be able to use their BitcoinCash or will that be lost? Will folks have to chose by a certain date which they will 'convert' to?
The average American commits something like 30 felonies a day.
First how does this split prevent double spending ? Each block chain initially has all the wealth records of everyone. So now if I pay bob 1 bitcoin by posting the transaction to BTcash my wallet over on bitcoinOriginal isn't debited. Why can't I now pay Anna the same coin but posting the transaction on btOriginal?
Second question is about your clever derivative idea. Someone has to hold they key to the Reserve backing the derivative. What happens if they decide to spend the reserve?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Don't think anything flew over the poster... Such a system would still (if reasonably designed) keep most/all advantages with bitcoin while removing the problems of some idiotic* design choices.
(* IMHO, no make that IMAO)
Bit coin is not limited to that rate of transactions. It's rate limit is infinitely higher than Visa. What you are confusing is transactions and mining events. Mining events happen slowly as you indicate. But each event can process an unlimited number of pending transactions. Thus the latency of transactions is ten minutes but the bandwidth is unlimited-- it's like a station wagon full of microSd cards has higher bandwidth than the internet just high latency
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
No the block chain just hashes the old block chain and truncated it
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Bitcoin FORK != Bitcoin
The point was not that 'the ownership of gold cannot be made illegal', but rather 'Gold cannot be made illegal'.
In other words, the substance 'gold' still exists, regardless of any law (aside from a global law compelling the nuclear transmutation of all gold). The Gold Reserve Act wasn't the only time that private citizens had been prohibited from owning gold, Eygpt banned it around 1200BC, Sparta around 600BC. But gold still retained value afterwards because despite these bans the substance itself continued to exist. It's very robust stuff. By comparison, cryptocurrency is exceptionally fragile.
Nah, GP, like yourself, seems to think that only the "advantages" of paper money will be "folded" into bitcoin, whereas the rest of us are just sitting here laughing a tech bros once again reinventing the wheel.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
WTF is the underlying value behind BTC (or Ethereum, etc.) other than its own artificially created scarcity? Gold, cars, jewelry and other "investments" have value whether it's aesthetic or whatever, so can usually be enjoyed in some fashion while you own it. And real American $$ have the advantage of being - you know - legal tender for all debts, public and private" so is immensely useful/valuable. BTC, from all I can see, is just fools gambling. What am I missing?
I love the old dismissive posters who don't really understand the blockchain or cryptocurrency so to protect their ego they make these vague assertions that "no one else gets it" and "they've already invented this before" (apparently via government issued, paper currency now? that's a new one). Meanwhile everyone else, like me, are making tens of thousands of dollars trading BTC and other cryptocurrency. But I'll keep reading all these posts about how "bitcoin doesn't work" or "it doesn't scale" while millions of people make money and complete transactions via cryptocurrencies evey day.
Don't worry grandpa, you can still use your debit card. Let us worry about all this complicated new cryptocurrency stuff just finish your juice.
Ripple can do 1000 transactions per second, it's market cap makes it the third largest crytpo and it is supported by international banks. No doubt that is where investors will be headed after pulling out of BTC, BCC and Ethereum.
Um. no ? ....
You only have to parse 1 single 2MB block
fail much ?
Lmfao
Not GP mind you.
But I did study economics. You guys are quite literally reinventing the financial wheel.
Keep investing in dunning-krugerrands, but just don't be the one holding all of them when interest runs out.
Does that include such classics as "loitering" and "walking while black"?
Thanks. You're dumb because you lack reading comprehension. The GP (who is me), never said that only the advantages of paper money will be ported to bitcoin. That was your own stupid bias that read that, it's not in the text.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
god damn you are a stupid scammer
Credit cards are analogous to a BTC exchange. For the majority of their transactions, no actual cash (BTC) is touched; at the end of the month, you pay (or are paid) the outstanding balance. Those sorts of "paper" transactions are nearly instantaneous.
But yes, all crypto currencies are doomed to failure by their very nature. Confirming a transaction has to be computationally expensive or the whole thing is too easy to break. The world is already wasting an unbelievable amount of energy on this bullshit.
Just goes to prove you don't need a government or central bank to eff up a currency.
"fork you"
That's like claiming just because a state declares Bitcoin illegal it will cease to exist. That's BS. If the right or enough states do it and have a way to enforce it and do enforce it then it's value may plummet but just like gold the Bitcoin will still be there.
Just fork it :)
aaaaaaa
Get over yourself. I wasn't just talking about you. Take that pedantic shit somewhere where they give a crap.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
DIAF you magnificent bastard. also ltr
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
"I love the old dismissive posters who don't really understand the blockchain or cryptocurrency"
There's nothing to understand about the walking train wreck that is a permission-less distributed database (what you try calling a blockchain, but it's not new technology, you're just new to this industry and fall for buzzwords just like any child.) It was shown to be a bad idea in the fucking 70s and it's still bad now for the exact same reasons - scaling and information transfer requirements.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
"Take that pedantic shit somewhere where they give a crap."
Apparently you forgot where the fuck you are, son.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
This is not a Bitcoin split, It is only another attempt to make another altcoin. A real fork might come in about 4 months, when the time to activate 2mb blocks come according to the New York Agreement. Strange as it may sound, the backers this little altcoin were also in favor of that agreement, so the reason behind them introducing another altcoin before that escapes me. There is no reason why this particular altcoin would be preferable to real Bitcoin or other alternatives such as Litecoin. If something, its technically worse and markets agree. As is typical of the introduction of brand new coins, you have probably seen the highest value it will ever have. Very rarely a new coin survives after it goes public, its usually just a race to the bottom and then disappear forgotten.
Bitcoin is a couple of weeks away from activating segwit, opening the doors for pretty much unlimited fast and cheaper transactions, putting the final nail in the coffin to the madness of enlarging the block size.
Charlemagne moved Europe off the Gold Standard and into Silver instead for some very good reasons, including the fact that the amount of Gold needed to buy a loaf of bread was microscopic. He also standardized Weights; a pound of Silver was made monetarily equal to an ounce of Gold. This had a significant effect on Counterfeiting, because it required much more effort to counterfeit an equivalent value of Silver. Counterfeiting was also made universally a Capital Crime.
Each pound of Silver was divided into 240 Pence, and a Pence became the Standard purchasing value for either a Pound loaf of bread or the equivalent amount in wheat to make a Gallon of beer. Most countries introduced Weights and Measures bodies. Adulterating Bread with something like Sawdust was also made a Capital Crime.
For over 500 years, Europe had price stability; "Penny Loafs" existed until the time of Shakespeare, when Inflation took off due to the Spanish discovery of Gold in the Americas, and their reintroduction of it into European Currencies. Otherwise, Gold had been used as a "Currency Of Account", kept in Vaults and largely used for only significant transactions, like those between Nations. Ownership changed, but the Gold remained largely where it was. (One exception was the Ransom of the French King Jean; England insisted on being paid in Gold which the French didn't have and couldn't raise. Thus the Hundred Years War.)
One strange effect of this is that while practically all Europeans were Illiterate, they weren't Innumerate. Everybody kept Accounts, mixed them around, and settled up at events like the Champagne Fairs. (Note, not named for the Bubbly.)
Gold as a Currency has no practical use; too high a value is placed in it by those who make Profit from its existence. You can't buy a loaf of bread with Gold. The same is largely true of Silver these days. The huge fluctuations in value of both over the last few decades was driven solely by Speculation. People don't make Profit fundamentally in either; they make Profit on Price Swings, either going up or down. (Silver actually has fewer Industrial uses than Gold does, ever since Digital Photography took over from Film.)
I actually once had possession of several Kilograms of Gold. This was serious business; the guy watching me sign for it had a gun and a badge with letters on it. This was _special_ Gold; it could not ever be allowed into the wild. Manhattan District Gold. Early on, it was discovered that in certain obscure applications, Gold had interesting Optical qualities. I was really quite relieved when a few years later, I gave that Gold away. Different Guy, Different Gun, but the letters on the Badge were the same. I tried to get out of this while I had custody, but even Hanford said "No Fucking Way."
Crypto Currencies are pretty much like Gold in this way. You can't buy a loaf of bread with a Bitcoin, and expect Dollars or Rubles in change, and you never will. Speculation is the _Only_ thing driving Crypto Currencies, and in case nobody has noticed, Chinese Syndicates are driving the Speculation these days. Two Centuries back, it was Opium, that the Farmer got next to nothing for, but later refined hit the Streets at vastly inflated prices.
This is _not_ a knock on the Chinese; the Speculators there needed and still need Capital, and they get that from the West, universally in the form not of Bitcoins, but of Dollars.
I chose to Speculate only in things of interest only to the Rich, not some poor Libertarian sucker who wants to "Give the Finger To the Man".
In the Seventies, certain fine examples of Italian Horse Flesh were going for ~$3K or less, including Borranis. Now they sell for over a Million. The same principle applied to McCintosh Tube Gear, which had practically Zero value back then, about as much as Fisher, and then Austrian Baroque Furniture, when the latest fashion in Sunset Magazine was Stickley. (As Lovejoy would put it, I'm a "Divvy". "Un Deviner".)
I'm actually lousy at what I'm about to sketch. If I was better at it,
If you had bitcoins before the fork you will have them in both branches. If you acquire them in one branch you will not have them in the other. Now one branch will have the ability to do 8 times as many transactions as the other and lower transaction fees. We now have 3 types of coins. Ones from before the fork and ones on each fork. The ones after the fork will have different values/exchange rates. The ones still unspent from before the fork will likely have a value that is the sum of the two. Now if one fork gains more traction than the other that fork will become more valuable. My bet is on bitcoin cash because it is more useful for me. I don't speculate on bitcoin, I don't use it as a store of wealth and I don't use it to measure the value of anything. I use it strictly for transactions, to exchange value with others. The old system was limited to a rather pathetically slow rate.
Bitcoin was mostly safe from a quantum computer since you only revealed you public key at the time you created an input to a transaction. Before that, all people saw was the hash of your public key. Now however when you spend a pre-fork bitcoin on one side of the branch you reveal your public key, someone with a quantum computer could then figure out your private key and spend the bitcoin in the other side of the fork. I would therefore recommend that everyone cycle their current bitcoin in both forks sometime in the next 5 years, just to be paranoid.
"Being in possession of an offensive wife"
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight
I might be movin' to Montana soon
Just to raise me up a crop of
crypto coins
[...]
Movin' to montana soon
Gonna be a bitcoin tycoon
[...]
By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,
But I'd be raisin' my lonely
crypto coins
Raisin' my lonely
crypto coins
I see you shilling. Anything except off block chain payments is fucking around in the margins, it's the only thing which can have a big impact.
Pushing increased block size forward is just a silly distraction, that was going to happen eventually any way. This is all about ASIC miners protecting their investment.
No, I know where I am. Doesn't mean I got to like it.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Mod Parent up.
That doesn't stop me from wanting to see a cryptocurrency that gets around the problem using the Worgl Miracle- taxing the CryptoCurrency at 10% per month until that bitcoin disappears, thus freeing its ID to be mined again.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
One good targeted computer virus could eliminate BTC forever.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
So which one do we pay our ransom to?
Impetuous! Homeric!
And checks too days to clear. What is your point?
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
making tens of thousands of dollars trading BTC and other cryptocurrency
This is called creating a bubble out of thin air. You might make money, but you're doing it by (effectively) taking other people's money. That's little better than a standard old pyramid scheme. Get out while you can, and leave someone else holding the bag.
The solution to this problem is to split transactions into blocksizes based on transaction amount. You could have several blockchains, each catering to a specific amount range.
Larger amounts would assumedly need fewer transactions, while smaller amounts need a great many and have a much lower required time to process, so should be done in much greater batches.