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Behind the Hype of 'Lab-Grown' Meat (gizmodo.com)
In an exclusive report via Gizmodo, Ryan F. Mandelbaum discusses the hype surrounding "lab-grown" meat: Some folks have big plans for your future. They want you -- a burger-eatin', chicken-finger-dippin' American -- to buy their burgers and nuggets grown from stem cells. One day, meat eaters and vegans might even share their hypothetical burger. That burger will be delicious, environmentally friendly, and be indistinguishable from a regular burger. And they assure you the meat will be real meat, just not ground from slaughtered animals. That future is on the minds of a cadre of Silicon Valley startup founders and at least one nonprofit in the world of cultured meat. Some are sure it will heal the environmental woes caused by American agriculture while protecting the welfare of farm animals. But these future foods' promises are hypothetical, with many claims based on a futurist optimism in line with Silicon Valley's startup culture. Cultured meat is still in its research and development phase and must overcome massive hurdles before hitting market. A consumer-ready product does not yet exist and its progress is heavily shrouded by intellectual property claims and sensationalist press. Today, cultured meat is a lot of hype and no consumer product.
"Much of what happens in the world of cultured meat is done for the sake of PR," Ben Wurgaft, an MIT-based post-doctoral researcher writing a book on cultured meat, told Gizmodo. Wurgaft finds it hard to believe many predictions about cultured meat's future, including the promise of an FDA-approved consumer product within a year. The truth is that only a few successful prototypes have yet been shown to the public, including a NASA-funded goldfish-based protein in the early 2000s, and a steak grown from frog cells in 2003 for an art exhibit. More have come recently: Mark Post unveiled a $330,000 cultured burger in 2013, startup Memphis Meats has produced cultured meatballs and poultry last and this year, and Hampton Creek plans to have a product reveal dinner by the end of the year.
"Much of what happens in the world of cultured meat is done for the sake of PR," Ben Wurgaft, an MIT-based post-doctoral researcher writing a book on cultured meat, told Gizmodo. Wurgaft finds it hard to believe many predictions about cultured meat's future, including the promise of an FDA-approved consumer product within a year. The truth is that only a few successful prototypes have yet been shown to the public, including a NASA-funded goldfish-based protein in the early 2000s, and a steak grown from frog cells in 2003 for an art exhibit. More have come recently: Mark Post unveiled a $330,000 cultured burger in 2013, startup Memphis Meats has produced cultured meatballs and poultry last and this year, and Hampton Creek plans to have a product reveal dinner by the end of the year.
When have the initial versions of a product not been hard to produce, expensive and limited?
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers"
I still wouldn't eat this and I don't know any other vegans that would.
The real problem with cultured meat - tastes like despair
Or you could just dump the meat. It's really not very good for you, certainly not in the quantities/balance with other foods found in the standard American diet. The idea that a vegan would choose to put that in their mouths is laughable.
What kind of immune system does lab grown meat have?
What is its defense against bacterial infection?
In theory, lab grown meat sounds good. Until you start to think about the rough biological science in the details.
One day, meat eaters and vegans might even share their hypothetical burger.
I don't know about those pesky vegans, but as a vegetarian, my main reason these days to not eat a beef hamburger is that those minced meat patties taste horrible.
But hey, some like it and its eco-friendly, so all the best to this industry.
Just curious.
This was a one-sided hit piece if I ever saw one. What's with all the lobby-driven drivel increasingly being accepted to Slashdot?
Given all the people still wary of eating GMOs or anything 'artificial', there will be a large demand for animal meat even if this becomes cheaper. It'll be like HFCS vs. sugar, or vanillin vs vanilla.
Personally I'd try it out of curiosity, but I can't shake that quote from Judge Dredd: "Eat recycled food: good for the environment, ok for you." There's something depressingly dystopian/cyberpunk about eating fake meat, conceptually, that reminds me of how in "Do androids dream of electric sheep?" people only own electronic pets because there aren't the resources to support living ones.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Absolutely disgusting.
I'm not holding my breath for this one.
Why is Snark Required?
I'd say vat-grown meat is closer to being a reality than AI, cheap fusion or quantum pretty much anything, and this swipe reeks of the desperation of an industry that has just seen the terrible threat and is trying to spin against it already.
Meat is on its way out.
I agree with the rest of your statement, but meat is not on its way out. What's on its way out is getting meat by having animals grow it on their bodies, killing and butchering them and then trying to find things to do with the parts people don't want to eat.
The planet is a lot more resistant than you think.
It needs something like freeza to actually kill it, and he will take several hours to do so, despise the 5 minute claim.
"They want you -- a burger-eatin', chicken-finger-dippin' American" Last time I checked I was Irish and try to eat healthily. But thanks for assuming everyone on the Internet is American.
Come on! You know that this new meat won't be called "meat". Surely enough, some great SJW, politically correct mind will come with a new name that everybody will be able to brag about when they are having some.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
It was hyped as it was a clear defined successes in the lab-grown meat research. Unlike other startups or researches, they completed the lab-grown meat research. If the research was never completed or no product was ever produced, then fine it was all PR. But they did create a lab-grown meat for consumption. One luck guy did ate the burger and it was extremely expensive to make.
It was fair PR based on actual event and hyped for the actual 'potential'.
What a whiny article!
> Cultured meat is still in its research and development phase and must overcome massive hurdles before hitting market.
Just like any new product based on a new technology.
> A consumer-ready product does not yet exist and its progress is heavily shrouded by intellectual property claims and sensationalist press.
Again, just like any new technology.
> Today, cultured meat is a lot of hype and no consumer product.
Bullshit. It's been edible for years, but hasn't had the right texture. And there are some products out there, but the FDA is making them jump through hoops which are reasonable under the circumstances. Google this: "FDA casts doubt on safety of Impossible Burger's key GMO ingredient".
I hope they get there in the end. This is a whiny article: All good tech takes time.
Meat is more than just a combination of cells. Its the result of the how the animal from were it was cut lived and died.
You have different cuts of meat, based on the muscle of the animal were its cut from. Depending on the animal, how it was raised, and how it was killed, a piece of meat can have different texture and flavour that the same cut from a different animal, raised in different environments.
"life is a joke, and someone is laughing at me"
In our new 'behind the hype' series:
Fully self driving cars - maybe not ready just yet!
Phone batter life improvements - some of these may not hit the market any time soon!
Desktop Linux overtaking Windows - still any day now...
"More have come recently: Mark Post unveiled a $330,000 cultured burger in 2013, startup Memphis Meats has produced cultured meatballs and poultry last and this year, and Hampton Creek"
What the hell does that mean? "Memphis Meats has produced cultured meatballs and poultry LAST and this year"?
If they have produced cultured meatballs and poultry this year, then doesn't that mean they have succeeded at growing lab grown meat?
People will be growing their own meat in their kitchens within ten years, maybe five, with a machine about the size of a microwave oven, producing disease free meat, only the amount that the user wants, so no waste, and ANY meat you want - so you can eat the meat of any animal you like, (within reason). You will be able to grow meat with a specified amount of fat. Just as technology has allowed us to do things today that were impossible fifty years ago, this will be the same. Shortly after this is being eaten by 50% of the population, there will be a campaign to ban all animal farming, which will succeed, because nobody will be able to justify torturing and killing animals to obtain something that can be obtained without violence of any kind.
And last of all, the maching you use to grow the meat in your kitchen will eventually be CHEAPER than any form of normal meat you can buy.
Surely enough, some great SJW, politically correct mind will come with a new name that everybody will be able to brag about when they are having some.
"Spoo".
Meat is on its way out. The planet will NOT survive if humans keep wastefully cultivating animals for food
Yes, I agree that we must find alternative to feeding animals to produce food for us to eat.
BUT
Launching a start-up to sell vat-grown-burgers at the current state of research and development is like launching a start-up promising to put man on the moon by the end of the decade... back when mongols used their first gun-powder based rockets (and we know how well that one went~ ).
Currently vat-grown meat is still a lab experiment and has a long way of R&D to go until it can successfully be used as a viable commercial product with low ecological impact.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Oh FFS; there's nothing wrong with eating meat, especially in moderation and from sustainable sources.
Over-population in many countries, (who are now moving towards a more meat-intensive diet), intensive & abusive agriculture, over-fishing etc. are the real villains.
From the fine article:
"But despite what you may have heard, the evidence as to whether cultured meat is better for the environment is inconclusive. “On the environmental studies, the work that’s been done is very preliminary,” Hampton Creek’s Fischer said. A 2011 study estimated that the product might produce fewer greenhouse gas emissions, but use about the same amount of energy as the European pork industry. One 2015 study found potential environmental benefits in China, but another 2015 estimate found it could use just as much energy as animal-based meats. The common theme is uncertainty."
So, the financial viability and environmental impact of all this seems most vague at this point.
Steve Jobs should have crushed them like a bug when they stole that iPhone prototype and tried to destroy the career of the engineer they stole it from. Shame on /. for sending them traffic.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Just about any other thing we now use. Seriously this is an anti-vision, anti-progress piece that could be applied to any technology before it became commonplace.
This has no place on a tech site where people are a bit more "progress friendly" .
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers"
On the other hand, back when he did said that, the total market of then-era computer was indeed probably around five.
There's more than half a century of R&D between him and the modern-day ubiquitous computer in everybody's pocket (smartphones).
Having a start-up promising within year to sell vat-grown-burgers at the current state of research and development...
Is like a start-up promising to put man on the moon by the end of the decade... back when mongols used their first gun-powder based rockets (and we know how well that one went~ ). It's a little bit precocious and over-optimistic.
Currently vat-grown meat is still a lab experiment and has a long way of R&D to go until it can successfully be used as a viable commercial product with low ecological impact.
Nobody is saying that it's impossible. It's just that we're currently at the "world market of five units" stage.
Spend a few more years in university research and maybe we can get closer to something that can actually be commercially successful on a large scale, cheap price and low ecological impact.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
This article does not deserve a considered comment. The only comment this article deserves is the one given in the subject line.
Absolute horse shit. Everyone loves meat, even vegetarians!
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
Soylent Orange.
Meat animals are pretty well-rendered. Non-edible parts are sold for leather, fertiliser, fur/wool, animal feed (although potentially dangerous), decoration (horn buttons, bone handles), fat and bone for rendering, etc. They're too valuable to waste.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
Really? If something like vat-grown meat ever takes off, every farm animal in the country will be dead within a few years. Because farmers don't raise cows and pigs and chickens because they enjoy their company, they raise them for income. Once the animals become unsellable, they're going to be exterminated.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing smoke....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
. . . but only if it's blue. After all . .
Spoo. . . . the OTHER Blue Meat. . . .
So, lets assume that this lab-meat takes off and in short order we grow all the beef, lamb, pork, & chicken in a factory...
What do we do with all the cows, sheep, pigs, and chickens that we no longer have a need for?
Do they become endangered or extinct?
. . . refuses to call the "burger" safe for consumption.
To wit, the ingredient of soy leghemoglobin:
"arguments presented [by its creators] ... do not establish the safety of soy leghemolgobin for consumption.”
Interestingly enough, Impossible Foods asked the FDA to STOP the approval process on their cultured meat substitute.
Everyone loves fat and protein - specifically if their body is deficient of them. The body doesn't care what the source is. Most meat-eaters are attracted to the smell of fatty meats because they constantly live in a routine of reactionary eating, only worrying about eating after they've become hungry. Think about eating meat after having stuffed yourself with a healthy, filling meal. I doubt you'll find it as appetizing
Jonathan Swift had a modest proposal that could solve environmental problems, animal cruelty, and overpopulation... and provide tasty burgers, or other most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragout.
As long as I am alive, the slaughter of animals will be performed.
I prefer real meat with antibiotics, hormones and steroids in it.
This was a one-sided hit piece if I ever saw one. What's with all the lobby-driven drivel increasingly being accepted to Slashdot?
The owners not seeing enough revenue flow, and trying to hike it up by trolling the audience, I think. Riling up the readers cause more posts, which is Slashdot's only real asset.
Idiot, of course you will not want meat after already having stuffed yourself. Meat is what made the human race develop the brains we have so quickly. Go eat you damn veggie paste and leave the rest of us alone.
When we start seeing the pushback from established industry players. Soon there will be discussions of "real" meat (meaning raised on a farm rather than in a laboratory). The minute this is price competitive, I can't imagine buying meat from an actual animal.
*cough*
https://soylentnews.org/
'scuse me.
trying to find things to do with the parts people don't want to eat.
We actually have a long list of useful purposes for virtually every animal part, so that may become an issue if all meat is lab grown.
For every animal they don't eat, I will eat two.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Too Trumpy.
It's all but given that cultured meat will someday be common. That meat will be high-quality without the bacterial/parasitic risks of animal meat, be more consistent and physically indistinguishable from animal meat, and taste great.
Eventually most countries will ban animal meat, though some will get it through the black market, insisting it's either "more natural than the synthetic crap," or as a perverse status symbol, like safari hunting for sport today.
A consumer-ready product does not yet exist and its progress is heavily shrouded by intellectual property claims...
I'm sure RMS disapproves of proprietary wetware as much as he disapproves of proprietary software. Let's start an Open Meat movement. LibreChicken, anyone? How about Moo-nix? OpenBSE?
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
It's only a matter of time. How about we just get rid of a whole bunch of humans? Through attrition? OK, fine.
pheat
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
It seems to me they are going after the wrong market. The first lab-grown (excuse me, "cultured") meat should be sushi-grade Ahi tuna. Tuna is expensive, over-fished, potentially mercury-laden, and it already looks like it came out of a vat. And people already eat imitation-crab in their California rolls anyway.
This comment is more relevant to slashdot than all these crocodile tears socjus articles.
That applies to any food.
I see you've never been to Brazilian BBQ. You spend 2 hours stuffing yourself with meat and at the end the only reason you stop is because you feel like you'll puke if you try to cram any more in. Meat is awesome. Besides, eating nothing but "healthy" is a good way to throw yourself into depression. Eating is pleasurable. Junk food is even more so. Yeah, don't stuff yourself on junk food, but I always fit a little into my diet every day. And no, I'm not huge, I'm probably more fit than you. Diets fail because people deprive themselves and then binge. Don't deprive yourself and you don't binge. Just don't overdo it.
Steal elections. Foreign influence.
Do you really believe that sh!t? What I see is a soft coup being attempted.
There wasn't any foreign influence in the US election. Not anymore than when the USSR funded anti-nuke protesters in the 1970s and 1980s (Yes the info came out with the fall of the USSR).
If you're concerned about the elections you should be promoting the use of driver's licenses (give free licenses to people who can't afford them) and keep the ballot machines off line. THEN the chance of "hacking" the election approaches zero.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
"Protecting the welfare of farm animals"
If this takes off, there won't BE any farm animals, so there will be no welfare to protect.
They don't seem to realize that almost nobody has a cow for a pet.
If we stop harvesting cattle, we will also stop GROWING cattle - why would we continue? And cattle these days won't make it without human assistance - we've bred them to where they can't give birth unassisted.
"protecting the welfare of farm animals" -- there won't be any farm animals. Some will call it "ironic" that cows went extinct after we stopped killing them. Do you think there will be wild cows roaming free? Chickens too?
"will be delicious, environmentally friendly, and be indistinguishable" -- someone seems to have forgotten the only important adjective: what about nutritious?
Every time we "take control" over a process, especially a consumer process, we've made things MUCH worse for the environment. Humans used to kill animals to make clothing. They'd go out into the forest, kill 25 animals, and make a fur coat. But good news everybody! Now we can make synthetic coats from nylon and plastics and never need to kill an animal to do it! Let's just cut down six acres of forest, build a factory, ship raw materials from china by ship polluting the oceans, run our factory 24/7, polluting the air and the ground-water, we've already destroyed the forest so ain't no 25 animals a'gonna be killed here, and we can produce coats that degrade within three years so we can sell more!
Habitat loss from clothing factories has been far worse than my soon-to-be 80-year old racoon fur coat made by one hunter and one furrier and 25 racoons.
The point is that we value things that we use, and we save things that we value. Cheetahs are endangered because most of us don't value them. So there are movements to save the cheetah, and no one cares. Chickens are arguably the most successful species on this planet. I eat close to a hundred each and every year -- plus another 100 of just the wings, plus another three-hundred eggs, five-hundred if you include chocolate cake and grand marnier soufflés.
I know that it takes a while for a cow to eat enough grass to make the meat nutritious for me to eat. I know that the cow converts the nutrients within the grass (which I cannot digest) into beef that I can digest -- so I'm getting the nutrients from the grass, which itself absorbed the minerals in the soil.
I don't know where lab-grown meat gets its nutrients. Let's see if I can guess. The lab sprinkles magic pixie dust onto the stem cells. Obviously. A powder called nutrient-42b. It's basically a protein-powder I'm sure. Now I wonder where the protein-powder comes from? Let me guess, it's produced in a factory. So, we'll start by clear-cutting this forest over here, then we'll build a factory. I'll bet the factory grows plants from which to produce the powder too. So it'll be a factory, and grass, and no cows. We'll have successfully replaced cows with factories.
Doesn't sound cheaper. Doesn't sound better for the cows either.
Anyone else hearing a Amanda Marshall singing "Save-The-Cows"?
So, vegans, riddle-me-this. How come the cow deserves your protection but the carrot does not? I'm sure the carrot species would prefer to not be slaughtered also.
Because everyone has moved on to other social media platforms. Those who still use the web largely use reddit. Slashdot owners are just making their last buck in a failing website.
What an honorable avowal. There is truly nothing more courageous than murdering defenseless animals. That level of respect and sportsmanship is to be revered.
Why would you assume I stated it for honor. I stated it for truth. I will continue to slaughter animals and eat their flesh without guilt so long as I am alive.
"Some are sure it will heal the environmental woes caused by American agriculture while protecting the welfare of farm animals." -- I'm sorry -- if we are all on lab grown meat, there won't BE any farm animals. These things aren't pets, they are PRODUCT. Without any market value, they won't exist!
Come on! You know that this new meat won't be called "meat"
And not just at the behest of the SJWs, but as a branding. Farmers will insist on being able to use the word for their "natural, ranch-raised" product as distinguished from the lab-grown product. This will be the great ag way of butter vs. margarine all over again.
There's different types of vegans. I, for one, don't care what meat tastes like because I'm vegan for ethical reasons.
#DeleteFacebook
In a culture where people think that trees scream if you cut them, do you really think that they would eat living tissue? I can see the headlines now, "Artificial Meat, if you cut me do I not bleed?"....
Oh, the planet will continue to spin, and have life on its surface even. And a lot of people will continue to live high off the hog. But more people will be priced out of the market for meat; others will be priced out of the market for food.
Nature has a time-proven solution to a organism population that outgrows available resources: starve it until it fits.
Human society has proved more adaptable than Malthusian predictions thus far. Malthusians didn't predict the ability to of people to develop fertilizer technology and high-yield crops. But there are thermodynamic and other physical limits to how much food you can grow on an acre; only so much sunshine to extract energy from and so many minerals you can extract from the soil.
So if we are going to continue to grow our population, and grow our standard of living for the bulk of that population, we'll have to adapt. And that adaptation will take many forms: new technology (our favorite! it's like changing without having to change), developing greater efficiency, changing our diet (some of us by choice, others by force), and letting the most vulnerable fraction of the human population die.
And we'll do all of them, but my guess is we'll rely most on new tech and letting people die prematurely, simply because both of these share the advantage that they don't require making hard decisions.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Pink slime
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Meat is on its way out. The planet will NOT survive if humans keep wastefully cultivating animals for food and letting their leaders steal the rightful elections belonging to others because of foreign interference.
Once this new 'meat' is perfected & mass produced, can we convert not just humans, but ALL animals to it - carnivorous & herbivorous - so that lions don't kill & eat gnus, zebras, gazelles, tigers don't hunt & kill deer, foxes don't eat hens & so on? Also, since plants too are living beings, make sure that deer, goats, cows, et al get w/ the program as well! So that onions & tomatoes don't risk getting plucked & slaughtered.
What's on its way out is getting meat by having animals grow it on their bodies, killing and butchering them and then trying to find things to do with the parts people don't want to eat.
What? Even vegans participate in this activity, they just think they don't. When growing just about any kind of crop, you invariably have to kill many pests, among them being wild boars, deer, raccoons, rats, mice, possums, insects by the millions, and many more. All are sentient by the way, including plants.
Besides, there's also practically no such thing as food that doesn't use some kind of animal byproduct, especially if you eat organic food where there aren't any practical alternatives. Whether its use cow poo, worm poo, guano, bone meal, blood meal, or any number of other animal products used in agriculture, an animal is involved somewhere.
Animal husbandry doesn't need to be either cruel or bad for the environment though. For the most part, it's just cows that are environmentally unsound, but even then, this can partially be avoided by having them graze for food instead of being given animal feed. This guy goes into great detail:
https://www.theguardian.com/co...
If vegans had enough creatine in their diet, maybe they would be smart enough to realize all of this, but alas, they're in a vicious cycle. (Yes, creatine does make you smarter and improve your memory, in addition to the already well known benefit of allowing you to gain lean (healthy) body mass.)
As for me personally, hunting and fishing are very fun things to do. I really doubt you'd be able to convince me and everybody who participates in these things that they need to stop just to satisfy some moral code that amounts to a religion that they do not and will not ever believe in (I certainly don't.)
Cow, chicken, pork, exotic meat, veggie-protein, lab-grown meat, all compete with each other for my wallet:
If they taste good, cook easily, look okay, and provide nutrition, and there aren't any reasons to boycott the particular product, then I'll go with the cheapest.
Right now, exotic meat and lab-grown meat are way too expensive for me, and most veggie-burgers I've tried are either too expensive or they don't have the taste, texture, or other qualities I'm looking for.
However, if someone wants to give me a meat-like veggie burger, exotic-meat-steak, or lab-grown meat that is "close enough" to cow, chicken, or pork, I wouldn't turn them down. Heck, I'd even pay for it - but not more than whatever other meat is cheapest at the supermarket that week.
Nobody loves horse shit...or cow shit...and lots of people are appalled by the thought of eating dead animals.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
fuck u i want my damn bacon
Slig seems appropriate
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
So that the number one complaint (by vegetarians) is eliminated
The defenseless do usually taste better
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
Only if his power levels are at 9000
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
Even if cultured, we will finally be sure our hot dogs are made of real dog meat.
My vegetarian SO and their vegan sibling are both in love with the Impossible Burger and the Beyond Burger. Those aren't cultured meat, but they are designed to resemble real burgers as much as possible.
So unsurprisingly in real life people are vegetarian or vegan for many different reasons. Some of them will enjoy cultured meat, some won't touch it but will still enjoy well made "fake" meat, some will stick to things like veggie burgers and tofurkey, and some will avoid anything that even vaguely resembles meat.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Absolute horse shit. Everyone loves meat, even vegetarians!
The real surprising part of all this is that meat eaters can also like vegetarian dishes.
If you give them a chance, and put some tasty good ones on the fucking menus.
No sig today...
I am currently standing one floor beneath ARMI (https://www.armiusa.org/). This is a DoD-backed program to grow replacement organs for living people out of their own DNA. In a way, this is the same thing--growing meat, except that in this case it's medical-grade and delivered live. Meat labs will likely be able to spin off of this technology, perhaps finding ways to make it cheaper to fabricate since there's no need to surgically implant it in someone's body.
I don't often eat antibiotics, hormones and steroids, but when I do, I prefer it to come from beef.
You think we don't want meat just because we are full after a meal? When we are full after a meal we don't want vegan dishes either, so I'm not even sure what your point is.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
The Japanese solved that issue. They eat animals that are still alive.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
That's a bunch of fucking bullshit. You people and your 'moral choices' can't override your own DNA; humans are OMNIVORES and nothing you can do will change that. EVER. Why do you think it is that any pediatrician worth their salt will turn strict vegetarian parents in to the police and have them charged with child abuse if they insist on raising their baby/toddler/small child on a strict vegetarian diet? Because the child will not develop properly, 'fail to thrive', become very ill in a number of ways, and maybe even DIE. That alone is proof enough that humans should NOT be eating only vegetable matter. Get over it, get over yourself, stop malnourishing yourself, stop trying to convince people to sabotage their health with your stupid bullshit meme 'diet' that has nothing to do with human health and everything to do with a completely misguided and pants-on-head stupid attempt to put food animals above us on the food chain. Or do you secretly want the human race to die out?
It's chronic amino acid deficiencies that create the progressive cognitive deficit that strict vegetarians inevitably suffer from. Seriously. I know vegans and some who have recanted and gone back to eating meat. They think clearer, make more sense, and their personalities change, becoming more effectual in pretty much all areas of their lives.
Somehow I doubt that this 'nu-meat' or whatever you want to call it is going to have an overall lower carbon footprint than, say, raising free-range chickens.
Yeah upvote this and disappear the posts from the vegan idiots (sorry for the redundancy).
Only I can judge you.
Yeah, and just like with that argument, ultimately the abomination that will be lab-meat (leat?) will be found to be incredibly unhealthy and not compatible with the digestive tract or biology of any animal (humans included).
Only I can judge you.
I'll join you in that my omnivorous friend. I'll also encourage my friends (both of them) to do the same. Plus my kids...
Only I can judge you.
I usually don't murder my own. I do find them delicious though. Right now I'm plowing through all the meat in a pig's head. I didn't realize how much there would be. It will probably end up feeding me for a month.
Only I can judge you.
I'm convinced but sadly, I'm part of the choir. If vegans and/or vegetarians could listen to reason, the world would be a much better place. They could then focus their anger on what should be their true targets, industrial agriculture and CAFOs, the whole industrial "food" chain in fact.
Only I can judge you.
So, let's just say that a better than meat lab grown alternative is created. What happens to all the millions of domesticated animals now no longer of any value. I guess we euthanize them and wipe out whole species?
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
I will gladly eat a vegetarian dish, as long as it's on the side of my steak and eggs. It doesn't even have to be tasty as the meat will take care of that.
Only I can judge you.
"burger will be delicious, environmentally friendly, and be indistinguishable from a regular burger."
And the burger will be brought to you by Big Corp...
Industrial production of food will mean not local and not small business and not family farms.
Animal agriculture is tightly interwoven with vegetable, fruit and grain production on a sustainable basis. By separating them and becoming dependent on industrial systems you make the entire system more centralized and fragile as well as less sustainable.
That's very bad.
I love sites that prevent you from right clicking (Firefox now at least lets you shift+right click to get around it, but how is a normal user to know?).
I also loves sites that prevent you from pasting into password fields.
Or that open up popup windows with toolbars disabled and no ability to resize or dock it to your main window as a tab.
What the FUCK would a browser let a site dictate the viewport or the user's ability to input data or the user's ability to fucking open a context menu?!
Good for them, then.
Margarine is ass and is terrible for you. Butter is great and is pretty good for you.
You forgot to check the "Post Anonymous" you fucktard coward piece of shit.
Only I can judge you.
The Koreans have solved it too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
No I didn't. Our days of bowing to the SJW's are over.
It takes 10-20lbs of feed to make 1lb of meat according to the industry's own numbers, and about the same for a gallon of milk. It's horribly inefficient, and shows that by not eating meat you gain a 10-20x more efficient food source (10-20lbs of corn or soy), and cause 10-20x less "by-kill" during crop production. So vegans still cause immensely less harm overall if that is your concern.
Vegans are at the front line in the fight against Big-Ag and their CAFOs.
Population rate is decreasing fast. Yes. The population is still increasing but we're quickly getting to a point where population level will drop in absolute numbers. By quickly I mean by the end of this century we will probably see a decrease in absolute numbers. We've gone from fertility rates of over 5 in 1970 to under 2.5 today. 2.1 Is the magic number to see a drop in population. We will probably see a 2.1 fertility rate in by 2050.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Inevitably suffer from? That would suggest that it's a serious and widespread problem, and thus there would be studies proving it. But there aren't. In fact, vegans have the lowest rates of dementia and stroke ever observed. Look at the latest large-scale, long-term nutrition studies. This is why every large health organization is now supporting 100% plant-based diets as being nutritionally adequate for all stages of life.
Do you think I make this stuff up out of wholecloth? There was a study done that I read about that says this. I don't have a link, go find it yourself if you don't believe me, I can't be bothered. Also it all fits in with my experience knowing people who are and were Vegan.
Oh and by the way nothing that involves a tiny minority (a FRACTION OF A PERCENT) of the total population can ever be considered a 'widespread problem' or 'serious', in this case it's more like 'nutcases that are screwing themselves up with an insane meme diet that has nothing whatsoever to do with health reasons'.
Not the psycho-biatches I see at the Farmer's Market. They are there yelling at and protesting, and cussing at the Grass-fed beef farmers. Stupid fucking vegans should be at Vons/Ralphs/Stater Bros/Costco yelling about the CAFO meat. Not at the place where the meat of compassionately raised animals is sold. So, I don't buy your bullshit lie.
Only I can judge you.
The Seventh Day Adventists (vegans and vegetarians) have the longest lifespans of any group ever observed scientifically. So I wouldn't write off plant based diets. They also have some of the lowest rates of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, dementia, hypertension, etc. Among them, the vegans cohort do significantly better than any of the vegetarian groups (lacto-vegetarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, etc).
Everyone who lacks B12 (the amino acid you're referring to) will suffer such consequences. 39% of the US population is B12 deficient (in the country with nearly the highest meat/dairy consumption per capita in the world), so eating animal products obviously isn't the answer. This isn't an argument against plant-based diets, it's an argument for B12 fortification in foods.
Whether you believe something or not doesn't change the fact. Vegans fight Big-Ag like no other group. Look at the work PETA has done fighting them. Honestly, if they were picketing Costco (they do), you seem like you'd still be angry.
Edit: ...war of butter vs margarine.
I think part of it is biologically humans are omnivores.
I don't generally follow PETA, I'm talking about blowhard vegans I see during my weekly shopping. I'm totally against CAFOs but am not sure I could join a group composed of mindless cretins like vegans are. What I see does not negate whatever assertions you make about vegan antagonizing of compassionate farmers/ranchers. But, go back to ArmoredDragon's post and deal with that, dude. If you know other vegans tell them to not make asses of themselves and stop protesting compassionately raised animal meat, there are much bigger fish to fry. Those vegans make all of y'all look like mindless morons. Which, based on ArmoredDragon's post, may be true. Think about that possibility before posting back.
Only I can judge you.
Who is raging again? You're just angry that animal rights activists don't stop at confronting the corporations. They confront all animal abusers. There is no humanely raised meat. If you believe that, I have some great land in Florida for sale.
I see that my third sentence made no fucking sense.
What I wrote:
What I see does not negate whatever assertions you make about vegan antagonizing of compassionate farmers/ranchers.
What I meant:
Your assertions about vegans and their battle against CAFOs does not remove what I have witnessed which is vegans antagonizing compassionate farmers/ranchers.
That's better but still not great. Sorry about the shitty sentence. I was in a rush.
Only I can judge you.
You think I'm raging? You should see the idiot vegan lady at my Farmer's Market. _Everyone_ thinks/knows she's mental. But to you she's a normal well-adapted vegan, doing her duty.
And that is exactly the problem with vegans. You idiots live in a black and white world, no shades of gray/grey. Guess what, the world isn't binary. But do continue to live in your echo chamber. I have not problem with animal rights activists. I have a problem with the maladapted, mentally ill class of people commonly referred to as vegans.
Protip: your religion will continue to be marginalized due to the complete lack of logic, reason, and science that backs it.
Only I can judge you.
Vegans are at the front line in the fight against Big-Ag and their CAFOs.
Except they're fighting the wrong battle. Their message is "no more meat period" instead of "better livestock welfare", so nobody listens to them.
They're lying.
So you support animal right, that's good enough for me. That seems ethical, moral, and logical.
Fuck off Veganfag
Animal rights activists do argue for better living conditions for farm animals. Their lobying efforts have led to significantly expanded cage sizes for chickens and pigs for example, among many other improvements to the processes of animal production.
Serious question, Why? The ecological impacts of meat are well known, and while eating meat certainly won't kill you, all of a sudden increasing your consumption by 1 steer/year for every vegan seems excessive and likely health impacting.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
There was an episode of the American TV Show "Elementary," about the issue of whether lab grown meat would be Kosher or not. I forget the details. A murder occurred, not important.
But imagine the sales potential of lab grown bacon if it deemed Kosher. Or passes Muslim restrictions on eating pig.
[citation needed]
We need the one that makes the blood and the one that makes the fat. You need a little blood and about 20% fat to make a hamburger taste good on the barbecue grill. Otherwise it is dry. .. Come to think about it. If we could make fat, we could make fuel!
For every animal they don't eat, I will eat two.
I'll join you in that my omnivorous friend. I'll also encourage my friends (both of them) to do the same. Plus my kids...
Given that people are animals, I'm not sure what you are saying, are you going to eat your two friends, or are your friends going to eat your kids?
"product reveal dinner" scare me?
[citation needed]
Here are a few to start from. You can follow their references cited sections to thousands of related studies.
Associations between diet and cancer, ischemic heart disease, and all-cause mortality in non-Hispanic white California Seventh-day Adventists
Fraser 2009 Am J Clin Nutr September 1999 vol. 70 no. 3 532s-538s
Dietary Relationships With Fatal Colorectal Cancer Among Seventh-Day Adventists
Roland L. Phillips, M.D., Dr. P.H. David A. Snowdon, Ph.D., M.P.H. JNCI: Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Volume 74, Issue 2, 1 February 1985, Pages 307–317
Coronary heart disease mortality among Seventh-Day Adventists with differing dietary habits: a preliminary report
Roland L. Phillips, Frank R. Lemon, W. Lawrence Beeson, and Jan W. Kuzma. Am J Clin Nutr October 1978 vol. 31 no. 10 S191-S198
Diet and Lung Cancer in California Seventh-day Adventists
Gary E. Fraser W. Lowrence Beeson Ronald L. Phillips. American Journal of Epidemiology, Volume 133, Issue 7, 1 April 1991, Pages 683–693.
Association Between Reported Diet And All-Cause Mortality: Twenty-One-Year Follow-Up On 27, 530 Adult Seventh-Day Adventists
HAROLD A. Kahn Roland L. Phillips David A. Snowdon Warren Choi. American Journal of Epidemiology, Volume 119, Issue 5, 1 May 1984, Pages 775–787.
Dietary and hormonal interrelationships among vegetarian Seventh-Day Adventists and nonvegetarian men.
B J Howie and T D Shultz. Am J Clin Nutr July 1985 vol. 42 no. 1 127-134
Animal product consumption and mortality because of all causes combined, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and cancer in Seventh-day Adventists.
Snowdon. Am J Clin Nutr September 1988 vol. 48 no. 3 739-748.
Mortality Among California Seventh-Day Adventists for Selected Cancer Sites
Roland L. Phillips, M.D., Dr. P.H. Lawrence Garfinkel, M.A. J. W. Kuzma, Ph.D. W. Lawrence Beeson, M.S.P.H. Terry Lotz, M.S.P.H. Burton Brin, M.P.H. JNCI: Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Volume 65, Issue 5, 1 November 1980, Pages 1097–1107.
Diet and Serum Cholesterol Levels A Comparison between Vegetarians and Nonvegetarians in a Seventh-day Adventist Group
RAYMOND O. WEST, M.D., M.P.H. and OLIVE B. HAYES, M.P.H.. Am J Clin Nutr August 1968 vol. 21 no. 8 853-862.
Cohort study of diet, lifestyle, and prostate cancer in adventist men
Mills, P. K., Beeson, W. L., Phillips, R. L. and Fraser, G. E. (1989), Cohort study of diet, lifestyle, and prostate cancer in adventist men. Cancer, 64: 598–604.
How many pounds of leather, bones, fat etc are created with it and what percentage of that is actually used and not just thrown away after?
It must at least be as courageous as doing battle with the lettuce patch for your lunch. The carrot village didn't stand a chance before your merciless onslaught!
Lobby driven drivel is permeating the entire media sphere. Why would /. be exempted form it? The best thing to do is check out. I will come back in a year or two and see how things have progressed. Right now, I'm in the Patagonian rain forest and loving it...
Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
It actually is 1 pound of cattle not meat.
Thing is, it's easy to ramp up production to higher levels and until people start getting shot for grazing cattle in the Amazon no one is getting priced out
Animal rights activists do argue for better living conditions for farm animals.
Depends on which ones. Most vegans I've heard from want the practice banned entirely. PETA feels the same way, including banning any captivity of animals period, including pets and service animals.
Everyday cultured meat could be produced much more efficiently than through corporate farms. The actual product will probably be healthier since it won't be necessary to feed animals an unnatural diet because it's cheaper. Moral vegans will all but disappear but vegetarianism will continue.
Animals will still be slaughtered but only for those willing to pay the premium. Those animals will be raised by high standard small farmers and corporate animal farms will by and large disappear. You will be able to look up the pedigree and health reports on your real steak but will cost like $100. Most striking will be a resurgence of people raising chickens in cities. The oceans will get some time to heal once 90% of the fish eaten is cultured fish meat. Most of the real fish will come from fish farms to limit exposure to sea pollution. All this will happen over the next 70 years.