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A Global Fish War is Coming, Warns US Coast Guard (usni.org)
schwit1 shares an article from the U.S. Naval Institute's Proceedings magazine. It includes this warning from the Coast Guard's chief of fisheries law enforcement:
Nearly two decades into the 21st Century, it has become clear the world has limited resources and the last area of expansion is the oceans. Battles over politics and ideologies may be supplanted by fights over resources as nations struggle for economic and food security. These new conflicts already have begun -- over fish... In 1996, Canada and Spain almost went to war over the Greenland turbot. Canada seized Spanish vessels it felt were fishing illegally, but Spain did not have the same interpretation of the law and sent gunboats to escort its ships. In 1999, a U.S. Coast Guard cutter intercepted a Russian trawler fishing in the U.S. exclusive economic zone. The lone cutter was promptly surrounded by 19 Russian trawlers. Fortunately, the Russian Border Guard and the Coast Guard drew on an existing relationship and were able to defuse the situation...
Japan protested 230 fishing vessels escorted by seven China Coast Guard ships entering the waters of the disputed Senkaku Islands. Incidents in the South China Sea between the Indonesian Navy and Chinese fishing vessels and China Coast Guard have escalated to arrests, ramming, and warning shots leading experts to suggest only navies and use of force can stop the IUU fishing... The United States needs to show it is serious about protecting sustainable fisheries and international rule of law. It needs a fleet that not only will provide a multilateral cooperation platform, but also take action against vessels and fleets that are unwilling to cooperate... If cooperation cannot be achieved, the United States should prepare for a global fish war.
When I read "fish war," I was imagining it more like this.
Japan protested 230 fishing vessels escorted by seven China Coast Guard ships entering the waters of the disputed Senkaku Islands. Incidents in the South China Sea between the Indonesian Navy and Chinese fishing vessels and China Coast Guard have escalated to arrests, ramming, and warning shots leading experts to suggest only navies and use of force can stop the IUU fishing... The United States needs to show it is serious about protecting sustainable fisheries and international rule of law. It needs a fleet that not only will provide a multilateral cooperation platform, but also take action against vessels and fleets that are unwilling to cooperate... If cooperation cannot be achieved, the United States should prepare for a global fish war.
When I read "fish war," I was imagining it more like this.
"The United States needs to show it is serious about protecting sustainable fisheries and international rule of law." Right. Change that to protecting its own interests, and international rule of law where it benefits self. As history has shown time and again.
So, please, don't try to play just and rightful, it has not worked for America for many decades.
Ah, the exclusivity of our times — surely, nothing like this has ever happened before. Except around Newfoundland:
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
This is a literal example of the case example known in economics as "tragedy of the commons."
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Anyone with half a brain, has seen this coming. Fish stock declining, half assed attempts at increasing them. Growing world population.
The west subsidizing poor countries to have more kids.
Either we all cut down on the fishing now, or pretty soon nobody'll fish anything at all, forever.
is $30/lb sometimes. That's insane. And I don't mean at Whole Foods or similarly overpriced places. Just regular grocery stores. It was never the cheap fish, but $30/lb is insane.
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In the next century or so, when temperatures continue to react to carbon levels in the atmosphere, and ocean temperatures continue to shift, the oceans may release enormous amounts of trapped methane, leading to mass extinctions.
It's happened a few times in Earth's history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
If we don't cut back on the fossil fuels, we might want to focus our technology on developing enclosed fungus/mushroom growing techniques. Because about the only way we large mammals survive such a scenario is being able to isolate ourselves from the environment for many lifetimes - and without open-air farming, about the only thing you'd be able to do is use carefully selected fungus at a large scale.
I wonder if kids in that era would think of games that were NOT super mario bros as unrealistic, since they are used to pipes and mushrooms. Well, until the last equipment parts started failing, and they started to be unable to maintain proper sanitation, and died from their crops being contaminated by common bacteria.
At that point, it would be more Oregon Trail.
Small, sometimes violent confrontations along borders are common when relations between the neighbouring countries are tense, but are not the cause of bad relations.
My money is on the sharks. I don't think there's any question they're going to win the fish wars.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You do understand the oceans are all connected right?
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Mr. President, we must not allow a fish gap!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Beware the IKEA weapons. They even come with ("english") instructions:
Thank you purchase Sweden flat-pack bomb. Please assembly in timely maner follow instructiones step 1 to 40 and pressing button "detonate". Thanks you.
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Stick to your principals? What?
#DeleteFacebook
The US could give a fire and forget torpedo to every one person fishing rowboat in Malaysia and similar places. Something they can just point towards any Chinese trawler and dump overboard. That'll win via attrition and help solve China's habit of randomly scrawling lines all over the map and saying it's theirs.
So what you're saying is: we need to build some kind of ocean wall. Maybe we can have Mexico pay for it too.
Something fishy going on here, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
Like in, say, Syria, where the US did everything in their power to destabilize the region and leaving Europe now to deal with the fallout?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It isn't. Humans are the only species on this planet that have even bothered to stop and think about their own ecological impact. Any other species whether predator, prey, or somewhere in between will just multiply endlessly with the only thing limiting their growth being the ability for the environment to support the population.
Equating humanity to a disease is just going to lead to bad thinking, because your solution is that humanity should be wiped out. That's what any person would tell you they'd want to do if they had cancer. So if you think humanity is a cancer, why haven't you taken the first logical step towards fixing the problem and ended your own existence? If you won't even do that, then what makes you think you get to demand that the lives' of others is ended?
You didn't read the link you provided, did you?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There are ongoing trade wars all the time. Whenever you hear about two countries signing a "trade and mutual support agreement", you know another trade war has been ended.
Backwards barbarian countries don't GAF, and are just out to smash and grab as much as they can. There will be no sea life, the oceans will die, we will die, but they won't care, because a few well-connected mafia types got to make a bit of easy money.
Long live American and Western hegemony. Because it may be the last line of defence between us, and oblivion triggered by greedy, selfish barbarians.
I was thinking more like this. (https://youtu.be/lefP0_ZM-Lw)
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
You do understand the oceans are all connected right?
All the more reason why global policy shouldn't be "enforced" or interpreted by the most belligerent asshole with the most guns.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Classic Asterix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
So "trade war" means "any disagreement at all about trade policies" then? Or even potential disagreements that might become disagreements because the sides haven't addressed them at all yet?
It's still crying wolf if you conveniently decide to call every plant and animal and insect "wolf".
call that a fish war?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?... now that's what i call a fish war...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
On y va, qui mal y pense!
Well, it's a good thing that "forcing their laws on the rest of the world" has never been something that Europeans were into. Oh... Wait...
Look. The species hasn't evolved. That simply cannot happen in such short a time span. There's nothing particularly special about people, in Europe or anywhere else, that prevents imperialism. It's just not en vogue, politically or socially, in Europe these days. But Europe has, in fact, been rediscovering a taste for exporting their laws beyond their own borders of late. See, for example, the notion that the concept of a "right to be forgotten" includes censoring what Americans are allowed to see on google.com vs. just what the Spanish, for instance, are allowed to see on google.es.
It's really just what's socially acceptable. And humans, on the whole, can regress into utter bastardry fairly quickly; especially if they can be persuaded that an: "If it's us against them, I vote us." situation exists. "President" 45, and the Charlottesville types are the obvious evidence of the backslide here. But you people aren't immune. The UK has taken massive steps back into darkness with Brexit. And even though she was defeated, the fact that Le Pen did as well as she did in the recent election says very bad things about France as well. And don't forget that the important bits of Russia are also in Europe.
Imagine all the people...
Right, the oceans are connected. The thing is that fish can thrive in one area of the ocean even if they are effectively extinct in another area.
We see this in Africa with all the connected lands where wildlife can roam. One nation might not have hunting licenses and conservation officers to enforce hunting regulations. Another will have sanctioned hunting, licenses, and officers to enforce the law. The nation with enforcement will have a thriving wildlife because the animals have value, if the animals are gone then so are the hunters and the money they bring.
Where there is no enforcement the poachers take over. Farmers will kill the animals too since they become a nuisance. The people generally don't want the wildlife because it attracts poachers, and they don't much care about killing domesticated animals if they get in the way. Or killing the owners of those cattle for that matter, if they get in the way too.
So long as the poachers stay on their side of the border between these nations the wildlife can be protected. I wish I could remember the details but there was a case like this a few years ago. A famous rhino, lion, tiger, or something was in a large national wildlife preserve but wandered too close to a border where poachers were not controlled. The animal was found dead with trophy parts removed and the meat left to rot. There was some dispute on which side of the border it was on. And there were likely many instances of this which is why I can't recall the details.
So, sure, some of the fish might wander from where they are protected to where they are not. What needs to happen though is that those that can't take care of the fish in their waters not be allowed to ruin it for the other nations.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Hunting and gathering works as a lifestyle only for small nomadic bands that are used to constantly subsisting at the edge of starvation. We escaped the trap by inventing agriculture, it only assuring our long term survival but allowing us to build large permanent settlements, with all the civilizing potential they carry.
Now it's time for us to stop hunting and gathering at sea. Fish farming has already outgrown its startup problems. It's time to support the idea in a major way.
How I mine for fish?
Yes, let's just completely ignore Russia's role in Syria completely.
And while we're ignoring things, let's ignore England's role in India and Pakistan.
Yes, if we ignore China, Russia, England, the EU, and a bunch of other countries, it becomes easy to see that the USA is the only problem.
Seriously, what is going on, is that Chinese boats come across the pacific filling up, and then sells in America. This is what allows them to then sell fish DIRT CHEAP at home. The worst part is, that not only do they do their legal limits on the way over, but then fill up again, with fish from American waters that they do not have a license for.
The only way to stop this is to prohibit their selling in America, or importing from Canada/Mexico if China sells there. Then no more licenses for CHinese boats to be in American economic zone.
As it is, they are fishing our waters and destroying these faster than their own.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
If there is a fish war coming, who will be the belligerents, and which faction should I support?
There are two that will most likely be involved, but I am torn between backing the sea bass and the sharks.
This space unintentionally left blank.
I'm going to perish anyway, may as well have a good steak first.
The giant floating plastic garbage reef. Can't they render that into artificial crab meat? It would make a great seafood cocktail! Fishing war is more important than the plastic Island of polluting crap.Has any of these geniuses figured out that given a few years of dissolving plastic will take care of the fishing war?
If we go back far enough we can surely blame it all on the Mongols, but let's stay in the here and now if you don't mind.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No need to. Just stay the hell out of the continent and it will work out.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And even though she was defeated, the fact that Le Pen did as well as she did in the recent election says very bad things about France as well.
Marine Le Pen did not have that many voters. Consider her score among all citizen, and not just the one who cast a vote, and it gets less terrifying.
The problem with french elections is that people have the feeling their vote has no impact on political decisions, hence they stop voting. People voted for Sarkozy and Hollande to get some change and still had the same economical policy: the one that gets decided at EU level.
I think trade war is appropriate term when tit for tat retaliation begins spreading to other industries of trade.
It's been tried, skipping having babies. But no vagina could survive birthing a grown person. Only babies fit.
What works for some species will not work for others. Many fish are migratory, which makes them much different than large territorial African animals.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Totally agree, but you left out the most important and local destabilizing factor of all. Assad himself executing, torturing, and using chemical weapons on his own people. Then you have the rebellion faction against him. We walked into the middle of a civil war attempting to help the rebels gain their freedom from Assad, and then Russia came along to back Assad in spite of the war crimes he's committed. If a certain previous president had acted when he drew his red line and it was crossed we wouldn't be where we are today. To complicate matters further we had ISIS come along attempting to take advantage of the situation which destabilized the region even further. And it's not just Europe dealing with the fallout it's all of us.
I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
I have heard about this from 2 of my friends that work on fishing boats in our EEZ (2 ppl normally; 1 checks sanitary conditions, the other is supposed to check catch and keep legal ; they tell some horrible stories ). Google will produce a lot for you
But this is pretty good, but talks about China's action all around rather just American water. And yes, China deploys driftnets in our waters on way out.
our real issue is that coast guard is severely undermanned since we send too many to the middle East. Now, trump wants to gut coast guard even more to give money to ice , which is just plain stupid. Illegal aliens can be solved just by phasing in e-verify. In the mean time, America's waters are being gutted by China.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Any other species whether predator, prey, or somewhere in between will just multiply endlessly with the only thing limiting their growth being the ability for the environment to support the population.
well the problem is that we are way too smart and way too successful, and also have modern medicine. other species grow to fill what their environment will support. we, on the other hand, just keep changing our environment (and ourselves!) to support more and more of us. and those changes are becoming more and more worrisome. we are also terribly adaptable, and when one food source dries up we start exploiting a new one. it is not a sustainable pattern and at some point we are going to be well and truly fucked.
...is that all of our attempts to farm wild species always end up with concentrations of large numbers of fish in confined spaces, essentially living in their own "fish sewage".
The genius of wild fishing is that the "pollution" from feces and the potential for spreading of diseases is spread out in a free-to-migrate wild population. What nature has evolved cares not an iota about arbitrary Human profit margins and motives, but is self-optimizing and adaptive to the conditions that maintain healthy fish populations. It remains to the human species to LIMIT THE HUMAN TAKE of the productivity that nature provides. Anything less is asking for disasters, such as the collapse of entire fisheries.
We, Humans, need to control our own carnal proclivities and our own numbers to avoid overloading the natural services provided by natural systems. Life is not a game of financial monopoly. Life on the planet cares very little about the corporate bottom line obsessions of a psychotically obsessed rogue species.
Humans will learn to cooperate, or they will die in the cesspools of their own making.
PlaynBass